EntreLeadership - How to Lead Things You Didn't Start with Tyler Reagin

Episode Date: June 7, 2021

Organizations naturally take on the personality of their founders—so what happens when you’re asked to lead a team or business that you didn’t start? Daniel Tardy sits down with author Tyler Reagin to unpack how to step into a leadership role and honor the past while you build for the future. Be sure to stick around for our second segment where Ramsey Network Host George Kamel and Executive Vice President of EntreLeadership Daniel Ramsey join us to make a very special announcement.   Take The EntreLeadership Podcast Audience Survey   The EntreLeadership Podcast Tyler Reagin's website Leading Things You Didn't Start by Tyler Reagin Ramsey Solutions website Schedule a call with Tim, our producer.   Learn more about the offers from our EntreLeadership Partners: BELAY  |  Gravy  |  Hite Digital   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844.944.1070 and leave a message, or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So what happens when you step into a leadership role in an area of the business that you didn't start? Or maybe you bought an existing business or you inherited a business. In all these cases, you've got an existing team that you've got to figure out how to, well, you've got to retain the best of what's brought them to where they are. You want to honor the heritage and the values and the existing culture, at least the pieces that are good. But if you're a good leader, you're going to shake it up. You're going to cast a new vision. So how do you get the team on board and gain the influence you need to honor where they've been? been and also take them into the next chapter. From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entry Leadership

podcast, where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. I'm your host Daniel Tarty, and in today's episode, we've got two great conversations about this topic of leading a team that you didn't start. Also on today's episode, you absolutely don't want to miss this. A big announcement about this podcast, stay tuned for that. So first of all, I sat down with Tyler Regan. Tyler is the former president of the leadership development organization catalyst, big deal, and he's also the founder and CEO of Life Giving Company and the author of the book, Leading Things You Didn't Start. And then our second conversation is with a Ramsey leader, Daniel Ramsey.

Yes, the son of Dave Ramsey. He's an operating board member, a fantastic leader, and we're going to discuss leadership transitions and how it actually works here at Ramsey Solutions, so you don't want to miss that. So first of all, sat down with Tyler. We talked about leading a team you didn't start. You know, as Tyler knows, and as you know, if you've done this before, it can be tricky. When you come in to lead a team, you've got to figure out how to honor the past, the previous leader, and the shoulders of the giants that you're now standing on,

and you've got to gain influence to take this team into the future. Well, let's talk about it. So the book is Leading Things You Didn't Start, and I'm curious for you, what was the first time you realized I'm about to start leading something that I didn't start? And what did that feel like? Yeah, I had been doing it for a while when I worked with Andy Stanley for years and just kind of managing, you know, the platforms and the spaces in which we were in charge of. But it was really when I was taken over. I'd been at Catalyst conferences for about a year as the creative director.

And then Brad Lomeneck, my predecessor, was transitioning to a new season. I was transitioning to lead it. And I remember leaving on a Friday as the creative director coming back on Monday as the boss. if you will. And that was just a different feeling. There was a new weight to it. There was a new stewardship feeling. There was a legacy of the guys and girls who had built this platform, this national faith leadership platform that I was now stewarding. And so I felt a weight to that and I didn't feel like there were a lot of resources out there on that. I think a lot of leaders, until they're in leadership, perceive things to be more illustrious or

or something that you would say, wow, that would be great if I could just get there. And then you're there and you have other emotions like, oh, my gosh, can I do this? Was that true for you? Oh, for sure. And, you know, Donald Miller's whole story brand concept is based on the main character wanting to know, do I have what it takes, right? And so that's kind of that question we all wrestle with is, do we have what it takes? And I remember it was as if you were 16 getting handed the keys to the car and going, whoa, now there's a lot of responsibility. before they were always with me before, you know,

as a part of this group now, the buck kind of stops with me. And so, and the truth is, though, it's any of us, like when we're stepping into an entry level team, but there's already an expectation.

There's already a stereotype of how you're supposed to do the job, or you're following a leader that was loved or a leader that wasn't loved. Like, there's just uniquenesses, but I think all of us feel that weight of leadership. And I definitely felt it again, And honestly, the truth is I wasn't really scared of the leadership part. I just was, I was excited, but I wanted to do it well.

I wanted this not to be a statistic of a bad transition. I wanted it to be something that was really, to the best of my ability and the team's ability, done well and brought momentum to the team versus like, oh, my gosh, what are we doing? Outside of your own skill set, what gave you the confidence that you could do that? Did you have people around you? Were you reading books? What kind of were your resources that were your lifelines in that season? Well, I've always loved leadership coaching. That's what I do full time.

And I've had a coach for about 15 years now, Fran Lamatina, who worked at Ronald Blue Company for years and then just fell in love with coaching. And she's been doing that now for 30 years, 30 plus years. And really was a trailblazer for, especially women in that. that leader executive coaching space. She was a great sounding board as I walked through some of these things. But to give honor where honors do, Brad Lomeneck, who I replaced, was also a great friend through this and a great support through this. And so between that, you know, I definitely had an advantage of having a year with the team,

but you know, if you're part of a team and all of a sudden you're the boss, like, there's some uniqueness in that because they were fine with you in that role. But now all of a sudden you've got a different role. And it's different for them having you in that. that role. So now they have to look at you a little differently. I go, okay, he was great at that last job, but is he going to be great at this job? I don't know. I like him or I don't like him. I like her. I don't like her. But let's see how this plays out. You know, you talked about people who were your peers and then you were suddenly their leader. That's kind of a funny thing in trying to

keep the relationship strong, where you were friends under a certain context, and now you have a new context and your dynamic, now you're in charge, and they're kind of going, okay, what's going to change in our relationship? And can I trust you to be my leader, the way that I trusted you to be my friend? Was that clunky for you? How did you navigate through those conversations? I don't know if it was clunky. Let's be real clear. One of the biggest struggles in leadership and organizational structure is oftentimes when people are successful at one thing, they get promoted outside of their skill set, right? I think for, me, what was the blessing in this is I love leadership. And so I've always been a student in

leadership. So for me, the leadership component of this, forget the competency of running a conference, forget the, you know, creative, all that stuff. Just the simple leading a team part jazzes me. Like it gets me fired up. It's one of those things that means the world to me. And so honestly, I think that's probably one of the best things I had going for me, where I knew that I had some growing to do, no questions asked, was in the marketing and sales side of things. It's not my background. I made that very clear to the board. I made it very clear to everybody who was making this decision and putting me in the seat was I said, my background is in programming, my background isn't creative. I know I can lead the team, but you just have to help me

resource this team when it comes to sales and marketing. That's not my space. It's not what I've done. And so there was definitely some low-hanging fruit that probably anybody that was good at that, probably grabbed a hold of quicker, you know? Like it felt like that was a little bit of a slower evaluation, a little bit slower getting up to speed. But I think as a whole, I was able to step in and lead this team. And I'd been with them for a while. I'd actually, for three years, produced the event as a contractor. So they weren't new to me.

But here's the difference. They were new to my leadership in that seat. And so what I had to do was really give a nice runway for those leaders who, I remember saying this specifically, Daniel, to the team, over these next few months, I want you to pray through two things. You know, we were a faith-based organization. And so I said, I want you to pray through, here's the expectations I'm laying out for the culture and for the framework of what it means to treat our clients and to treat each other in a certain way. But the second piece is, I'm never going to be Brad. Like, I love Brad. But the worst thing I could do is try to be Brad, right?

It'd be like if you were handed the keys to Dave's seat and all of a sudden, you want to go try to be Dave. Well, that's not a win. Like, you've got to be the best Daniel leading in that new seat as you possibly can. And so I just made it clear to the team and kind of gave them a little bit of an out going, hey, if those two things, if you don't feel like you can live up to this cultural expectation and you just aren't settle with the fact that I'm never going to be Brad, it's okay. Like, it's been a great run. We'll do everything in our power to get you in the right seat on the bus, even if it's not our bus. There's a theme in everything you're saying right here. and it just strikes me that you had a lot of self-awareness.

There's a lot of pressure on leaders to be whoever you need to be to fit the role or whatever you perceive expectations to be. And we can kind of drift into being a chameleon and losing our true self. You know, when you told the team, hey, guys, I'm great at production and, you know, the creative side, but the sales of marketing, that's not me. I mean, it'd be very natural to feel like, but I need to be good at sales and marketing to garner the respect of this team. But you went the other direction.

You just called out, hey, this is a weakness of mine. It takes a lot of self-awareness to do that. Say more about that. Well, for me as a leadership guy, and I know you're there too. It's like emotional intelligence is the baseline. Like it is when people say, where do I start with leadership? I go EQ. Grow your EQ because what Daniel Goldman's research said in the mid-90s

was one of the first times there was actual research saying in data that the best leaders in the world know how to lead people best, not necessarily projects, not necessarily spaces. I knew that I could lead the sales and marketing people, but I didn't have the skill set to know which software was best or how to get the word out best. But I know how to lead those people. And what you find is there's grace for leaders

who are awesome at leading. And if you're just honest about the realities, now this is where a lot of leaders stop with their emotional intelligence, is they move from social self-awareness to self-management. So many leaders are self-aware, but they never move to self-management, which is behavior change, right? So I can sit all day long and say, well, I'm not good at sales, so peace out, good luck, go figure it out. I still have to grow in that. I still have to lead them.

But I'll never be an expert at it. I'll be a 10% guy who can make sure the team is going the right direction. So, yeah, I think you're exactly right. And that's, I even write about that at the beginning of this book, is that if you don't lead from your truest self, you are going to get crushed by this new role. And you trying to be somebody you're not is not the answer to that solution. So you talk about coming into this new role. And you told the team, you know, Brad is a great guy. He's a friend.

Fortunately, things were, you know, on good terms with you guys. And you even mentioned he was an instrumental part of you being set up for success going forward. But there's kind of this awkward space early on of honoring the past, but then not being stuck there. You talk about this in the book. We want to make sure that we don't lose certain things. but then we're also intentionally trying to disrupt some things. I mean, that's oftentimes the reason we need new leadership is we expect things to change and become different.

How do we balance and navigate that tension? You know, there is a discernment required in this, and I call it the dance of discernment. And so it's that understanding. Now, what's not to be discerned is that you have to honor. Like, that's not an option, in my opinion. Like, honor the things that are valuable in the past. Like, here's the worst thing you can do is you can come in guns blazing. and the team is going, you're going to lose influence because they're going, do you even know what just happened over the last six months?

Do you even know what you're inheriting? Do you even know what we've been through? Do you know the culture we've created? Like, whatever, good and bad, right? And so if you just act like that doesn't exist and you're just like, here's the new way, here's where we're going, you're going to lose influence. I believe that with all my heart. And a lot of that's that emotional intelligence piece coming in. But for me, a huge part of that as we talk about EQ, as we talk about honoring the past, like, I really believed in honoring long. than I had to. You know what I mean? Like, I just wanted to make sure people understood that I was super grateful to be standing on the shoulders of men like Brad Lomeneck and Gabe Lyons and John Maxwell and Andy Stanley and Craig Rochelle and people, you know, leaders like Christine Kane and these amazing leaders that I'm now standing on the shoulders of. I'm now stewarding the work that they've put into this thing. And so there was an honoring, anytime I had a public opportunity to honor, I did that. Now, there's a really important piece of this dance of discernment,

is you got to start paying attention to, well, okay, that's been too much. Like, I've gone too long. It's time to move on, right? And some of that, we talk about that a little bit later in the book, but I think the key is having this kind of radar up going, I'm going to honor who came before me good, you know, the things that we love about where we're headed, the things that were created in the past that we're going to carry forward. It's really critical that we pick and honor the right things, but there's a lot of leaders that just don't do it at all. They're just like, well, no, new season, I'm in. And I'm like, you're just, you're missing an opportunity to gain influence and show that you know what's going on around you. How can leaders get their team

involved in that process? You know, I mean, the last thing you want to do is come in with a master plan and just make announcements. And like you're saying, hey, old guards out, new guards here. It occurs to me, there are things the team even knows about what we want to retain from our culture that has been up to this point. How do we create that buy-in and get the conversations going in a way that honors the team and helping be a part of the transition? Yeah, I know you're going to think this is super simple. And as a matter of fact, like, this whole book is simple.

That's why I did it. I actually had a two-star review on Amazon that said this book's too simple. And I'm like, well, then you missed the first chapter because that's literally what I talk about is that we overcomplicate leadership quite often, right? I just kind of have this principle I like to live by when leading a team is I don't want any rhetorical meetings. and I call them rhetorical meetings because it's basically the idea that I've already decided what I'm doing. I'm collaborating with you in air quotes so that you feel like you've got a voice to this thing, but the decision's already been made.

And so that's just a bad leadership from the get-go, especially if you do that early on where they recognize you're just doing this to check off your list that you've collaborated with us. And so I would say that's a good starting point. Don't have any rhetorical meetings. Now to simplify this, ask them. hey guys what did you love about being here in the past what are we best at in your opinion like show us teach me what you think is the DNA that has to stay the same teach me what you think is what separates us from the company down the street that does the same thing teach me those things i know that sounds overly simple daniel but like just let them tell you what they love like i

do a lot of audits when i start working with an organization as a consultant and i'll do kind of a culture audit. And one of the very first questions I always ask is, what do you love about coming to work? Now, if they don't have a lot of answers for that, that's one of the first places to focus, right? But like, it helps me understand what gets them fired up. Why are we good at these things? What are we passionate about in this space? And so I just, I would simplify the question and just go, just ask them what makes this place great. And you'll hear it. You'll hear these themes. Like, man, we trust each other. We're committed. Whatever the things. You're may be, it really will help you as you go. Okay, I'm going to honor that. I want to make sure I

grab a hold of that and ring that bell as many times as I can so that they recognize that I recognize what's going on in the space that's special. You talk about this a lot in the book, and you've mentioned the word audit, but it seems like the win is that early in the season of transition, you're really just asking a lot of questions. You're not coming in to announce things. Absolutely. You're not coming in to tell everybody where we're going. You're creating some space to really get curious and to kind of check in with everybody. You've got a whole list of questions on page 42. How strong is the team for real? What financial situation are we in? What fires have to be put out? What fears and insecurities are floating around the team? And you go on with the list.

But say more about why is it important to ask these questions and how do we approach this with the right mindset so that we don't miss this critical window of doing the audit? Yeah, and what, you know, what's in there is that dot, dot, dot, dot, for real. That's the key, right? So many of us heard in the interviews, well, this is great and this is great. And, you know, I really encourage people, when you're interviewing so often, people are like, I just want this job. And so you just ignore some of these flags, because you're not asking the right questions. You're not stepping into a space that you fully actually understand what you're stepping into. And so that's why I always like to add that for real part of that. Like, how are we, for real. How are we really? Like, are we, are we saying we're okay, but we're not? Are, is the team skirting around some culture toxic problems because they want to be seen as competent? Like, whatever those things may be, as we step in, you know, audit evaluation, you can call it whatever you want. It is so critical that we really get to the bottom of how we're doing. Like, financially, that's critical, right? I need to see these P&Ls before I say yes to this job. I would really like to know where we are standing good and bad. Like if I know it's bad, at least I know it's

bad. If I step in and take the role and then I don't like I find out it's bad, that's a problem, right? That's where we step into a really sticky situation. You know, in the back of the book, I have four case studies. And there were different leaders who have taken over in different spheres. And one of those is Buzz Williams, who's the head coach of men's basketball at Texas A&M. When I interviewed him, it was the fourth major D1 program he'd taken over as a head coach. And he was 100 days in. And one of the things I'll never forget him saying was it was way worse than I thought. And I just thought, oh, no, like that stinks, right? Because, but he had done his, he'd done everything he knew. But man, they didn't tell him everything. And it doesn't mean he wouldn't take the job again. It doesn't mean those kind of

things. But by golly, we need to try to get in as far as we can and hear as much as we can ahead of time. And so a big part of that is just one of the ways I like to liken it is I'm looking for themes in these things. And so you know how when you buy a red car and you've thought, I've never seen a red car like this in my life. And then all of a sudden you see 50 of those red cars a day because your radar is different. And you're just looking. Your senses, your spidey senses are a little different in that sense. What you're trying to hear is these themes so that then your senses and your discernment are gaining traction within that space. And then you as a leader have some more insight on how to lead it to the next part.

You know, things like the P&L and looking at the numbers are a little bit more concrete. You can figure out, I mean, it's kind of past, fail. But when it comes to how the team is doing, obviously early on, the team is feeling a lot of pressure to get the new boss to like them and say the right things. They may be tempted to say, let's not look in that corner or their checking boxes. How do you disarm them and make sure they feel safe to give you the real for real or that their job's not going to be on the line. How do you approach some of these more human, sticky kind of conversations that aren't as concrete and objective as like a P&L, for example?

Yeah, I do this in my consulting business, and I would say this is the same case if I stepped into a team right now that I didn't start. When I'm doing the audit, I always lay some ground rules, right? Some framework that says, hey, here's where we need to start. Number one, I know that you love this place or you care about this place. Number two, I know, like, say it out loud. I know, I know, these four things. And one of those is that you care about this place. And I want them to know that I know that they care about the leader or the place because then I'm going to say, but if you're not able to be honest, we're not going to be able to

move this thing forward. But so many people in their honoring and their respect, they don't want to be like bad mouthing this situation or talking about the toxic culture because they're literally feeling like, well, gosh, but I love that person, but they're not good at their job. You know, like, and you're like, okay, great. I love that you love that person, but we will never get better if we're not honest about these things. And so that's what I mean by that really part, right? It's like, I'll tell you 75%, but that 25% is sticky and it's got a lot of gray area. Well, let's go in there as leaders and let's remove the gray area and say, hey, this is a safe space.

This is a space where you have to tell me really what's going on. And I think if you can do that, they will start trusting you more and more and more seeing. Now, here's the key, and leaders can lose it as quickly as they gain it. If you don't manage that information well, that's a problem. And so you as a leader have a responsibility now, a management, a stewardship of that information to use it for theming and understanding what's going on, but not as a weapon or a crutch for that person. So you understand what you're coming into, and then you're asking a lot of questions, you're doing this audit, you're being super curious, you're honoring the past, honoring the past leader,

also honoring things that have brought us to this point in the culture that we want to make sure that we hold on to. And then you kind of get up to this point where you're starting to shift towards the new future. You start thinking about a new vision. In the book you talk about, there's a point where you have to cast a compelling new vision. So how do you know when you're at that moment and how do you go about that process? Yeah, I think everything you've done prior to that is building to that moment, right? It's these little hints. I'm adding some seasoning as I'm talking about where I'm going or where we're going.

I'm constantly, and even in that we talk about honor, when you pick what you honor, you're showing and celebrating what we want in the future. You're showing and celebrating the values that we believe in, the culture we believe in, the system we believe in. And you're doing that almost covertly, right? I'm not just constantly going, hey, guys, and this is what we're all about.

Like, no, the way you handled that client is spectacular. Did you guys see how she said this to them? That is the kind of leaders we want to be. That's the kind of thing this place is all about. Then when you start casting a compelling vision, the key to the compelling part is it's got to be exciting and it's got to be one of those things that you go, yeah, we're better if we do that, right? If you cast a vision, if you're casting vision and it's not better than where they think they've been or it's not really exciting for them, that's not really compelling, right? And so part of that hard work, that heavy lifting is going back to that really question, is this better really? Like, ask yourself that question as you're building to that point.

When I took over at Catalyst, that was a big part. I had stepped in for about three months before I really even said, this is where I think we're going to go. Or this is where I think. But even when I did that, the expectations that I laid on the team were all about culture. They were all about how we're going to treat people. They were all about how we're going to treat our clients, how we're going to serve everybody with everything we had. And part of I doing that, Daniel, is to go, you've got to decide if you can be a part of this. I remember my boss for years, Andy Stanley used to say that healthy leaders won't stay in an unhealthy

organization. And that always made sense to me, right? Like I get that. But then he would say that unhealthy leaders won't stay in an healthy organization. And I remember thinking, why would that be the case until you start recognizing that if a leader doesn't want to change, if a leader likes the past, if the leader is bought into the last leader and not you, and they don't want to be told every day when they come to work, you can't act like that, you can't treat people like that, you can't say those things. Why would they want to

stay if they're not willing to change, right? So it made more sense to me. And as you step in and lead something you didn't start, that's going to be a real litmus test for whether or not somebody is going to be a team player, they're going to be a part and they're going to get on board with that new compelling vision. And so you see how all this kind of plays together. You really are having to get in the weeds a little bit and go, how are we really? And now, now that's the way. And now, that I know where we're at, that actually helps your vision because if you know that trust has been an issue, if your compelling vision doesn't have an answer to fixing the trust problem, then you've missed the boat on that conversation. I want to talk more about this vision piece.

Vision is so critical. And we talk about this a lot in Antre leadership. I love vision. And for me, it's been a double-edged sword because it's one of the things that I'm most naturally gifted with. If there's one thing I'm great at as a leader, it would be just the ability to see the future. And believe me, there's a lot of things I suck at. So there's plenty of room for tardy to improve. But vision is just something I've never had to. It's like I can just see things clearly. And they're not always the best things, but I just have vision out into the future.

And I'm a salesperson. And this is where I can get into trouble, is I can see clearly what I feel like we should do. And then I start selling the team on, okay, we're going this direction. And the team will follow because of my persuasive skills when they didn't necessarily feel like they had created and crafted that vision with me. So, you know, earlier you were talking about making sure everybody's going together. How do leaders know when to say, okay, I'm the captain of the ship and I am setting our heading, and this is not a thing we're going to vote on? And then what pieces of that do need to have everybody's input? And again, what you said, I love it. You haven't pre-decided and you're checking

the collaboration box. You're genuinely listened to the team and asking, where do you guys think we should go? How do we balance that tension? It's a good question, because, there's a discernment piece of that, too, right? Because there are a lot of people, like I would fall in the camp of, I tend to collaborate almost too much sometimes, right? There are times that the team needs me just to put my foot down and go, nope, this is the decision, this is where we're going. That's not as natural for me. On the right path assessment, I'm off the charts, like, compassionate. And so when it comes to black and white or gray, I don't have black and white. I'm all gray. I know that about myself. I know that I want to get

consensus. But as I matured as a leader, I'm constantly recognizing and paying attention to, there are times the team just needs me to lead. They don't need to collaborate. They don't know what the answer is. This isn't their skill set. And that's another problem is, again, discernment so key, if you've got team members that you're inviting into that conversation who aren't mature enough to handle when you go a different direction than what their opinion was, that what you invited them to say, that's leadership, right? I've got to be able to lead that person because they're going to be, feelings are going to be hurt because I actually collaborated with them and I went a different direction, right?

But here's the thing about emotional intelligence. We've been talking about this, Daniel, a lot. Emotionally intelligent leaders does not mean that you're going to always do what everybody wants. It means that they're going to handle that situation in a way that recognizes the emotional toll of the decision. So in other words, if I as a leader hear everything, I discern it, I cast a vision, this is where I feel like we're supposed to go.

and it's counter to what one or two of my teammates had predicted or said, then part of my job as an EQ as a strong, emotionally intelligent leader is to recognize that in those leaders, that this is going to take a withdrawal from them, that this is going to be something that I just have to say out loud and go, hey, Steve, I just want to say, thanks for your input. Here's all the reasons I feel like this is direction we're going to go. So I know this is going to be a little tricky for you. If you have any questions, if you want to walk through why I made the decision, think about

that as a leader, if your leader did that versus just going 180 degrees without telling you they're moving on. What happens in those situations is all those leaders oftentimes they think they're motivating and I'm moving you down, just making decisions and we're rolling. What they're actually doing is creating discord and they're creating a recognition of going, do they even know what we're talking about? Like, what are they doing? Like, you know, it's just bringing people with you, even when it's not the decision they would have made. And that's where strong, emotionally intelligent leaders come into play is going, hey, I recognize the toll that this is going to take on our relationship, but I believe it was worth the toll that I'm taking because this is a better outcome.

It's really good. So we're in the role. We've been asking questions. We've been getting curious. We're honoring the past. Now we're starting to cast a new vision and we're starting to execute in that direction. And then there's this really cool thing you talk about in the book of getting fresh eyes and fresh perspective on that vision. There's a new season that we can take advantage of here that wasn't possible under the old culture.

And it's not even that the old leader was a bad leader. It's just contrast to, hey, we, everything, everyone feels it in this new season. It's a season of spring. It's a season of life. And in that season, we can get fresh eyes and fresh perspective. Our friend Donna Miller talks about this, you know, Don, we have the curse of knowledge. When we live too close to things, we just get desensitized to it. We miss obvious things that are there just because we see it every day.

So how do you bring fresh perspective in and then how do you fine tune our kind of our listening mechanisms to make sure that we're getting the wisdom that that can bring? Yeah, for me, that is one of the greatest gifts that new employees bring to a staff. I used to tell the team, any new employee I would meet with as early as I could and they're onboarding and their time. And I would look at them and I would say, you have fresh eyes. We don't anymore. I don't have it anymore.

Like, I lost those, right? I've been here long enough that I don't see the old couch. I don't see the frame as cricket on the wall. I've walked by it too many times now. Here's the questions I want you to ask. I want you to ask every single question that comes to your mind. And then if our answer to you is, well, that's how we've always done it. And we don't have a better strategic answer than that.

That's on us. It is the easiest way to pick up on the things of going, gosh, why do we do it that way all the time? Huh. You know, we've just always done sales. this. Oh, we've just always, we've always used Google ads. I've never thought about whatever, or, you know, we never have had an app. That's weird, you know. But even the most entry-level position can spot something that you go, huh, that seems so intuitive to some people, but yet we've been cranking on this wheel over here for so long that we've missed a pretty simple

opportunity. And it doesn't matter how creative you are. It doesn't matter how innovative you are. can miss the realities that are right around you because you've just been doing it. You've been in the wheel. You've been cranking away. And so I just think it's mission critical that from day one, you create a safe space for those leaders to be able to ask those questions. Another piece of that is you've got to also not be super defensive either, right? I mean, Daniel, if somebody comes in right now to your podcast, you've been doing this a long time and you go, and they go, hey, can I just ask, why do you wear a jean jacket when you're on the thing, or whatever. Like, the thing is, it's tricky as a leader to not feel defensive and go, well, who are you to say this? This is my,

what I make that call. I make that decision, right? But why want I just pull back for a second and go, maybe they're evaluating the idea and not me? What if I could actually see that in a healthy way and go, I don't know, I just like Jane jackets or whatever the thing may be. But, you know, it's, the key is, do we give them a space to speak fresh? with fresh eyes. I'm telling you, those of us, and again, I worked with Andy Stanley for a long time. He did this whole staff talk one time with this old paisley flowered couch sitting up on the stage. And he never addressed it until the very end. And he was just talking about how, you know, when you have it a couch, the old couch is sitting in your house, you don't even recognize that it's the old couch anymore. You don't even see it. It's been sitting there so long. But somebody who walks in with fresh eyes and has given permission to say, hey, what's the deal with the old couch? And they don't lose their jobs and they don't get, you know, put on a black list or whatever the thing may be, all of a sudden you recognize, oh, wow, I'm empowering my leaders to speak up when something has just been tradition or history or that's the way we've always done it. If we don't have a better answer for we've done it this way because blank, blank and blank, then I think we're missing out on a chance to let fresh eyes innovate for us.

It ranges of solutions. So we have a core value that we shoot our sacred cows. And the idea is exactly what you're talking about, which is there are so many things around here that have become sacred just because they've been here for a long time. They aren't necessarily things we did with intention. But new people don't know that. New people assume that everything we're doing must be done for a purpose and for a reason. It takes a lot of leadership and inviting people into that space to say there's probably a lot of things you're going to see that we don't need to be doing. And then I think you're really dialed in on something.

The way that we respond when they give that feedback says everything about how serious we are to that being an ongoing part of our culture. Yeah, and how safe it is, right? Yeah, how safe it is. You know, we offer feedback and then there's a passive aggressive response or, you know, hey, who are you to challenge this thing? Well, instantly that person here is don't ever offer feedback again in this place. It's not safe to do that. And, you know, I'm curious when there is something that is sacred by design. what does that conversation sound like?

Because you want to invite the feedback on, oh, my gosh, you're right. The couch is old and we should get a new one. But what if there's something about the couch that is core to who we are and you need to help that person understand this is not a place we need feedback? This is a place that we've got to double down. Yeah, but your answer is different when they ask, why do we do this? You say, we do it because we've always done it this way because this is central to what we've watched work. We have seen this play out.

Now, one thing that you mentioned reminds me of one of my favorite books by Henry Cloud called Necessary Endings, because a lot of times the sacred cows are because they worked, right? Because they were good. Matter of fact, they were the best thing we did at some point. But Henry has a chapter in that book on pruning, and he talks about that when a rose bush, there's three types of blooms, right? There's dead ones. There's good ones and there's the best ones.

The problem is the dead ones are easy to cut away. So those sacred cows that are no longer helping us anymore, that's easy. Like, COVID has been such a reason and an opportunity for businesses to trim and get rid of things that have just kind of been hanging around. Like, it almost forced you to go, do we really need that? Do we really have to have those? Do we really? That was an, the dead things are the easiest thing in those moments to grab a hole and go, done. The hardest things to trim in that pruning process are the good things that are no longer the best things.

And what Henry's point is, if you don't get rid of the good things, even though they're still good, they might be. even still be profitable. They might even still be making money, but they're not the best things. And what they're doing is they're taking resources and time and attention and nutrients from what's the best things. But why do we hang on to them? Because they mean something to us, because they're emotional to us. And so I just tie all that in to go, man, part of that is there are times you go, yep, you stumble on something that is our DNA thing. This is who we are. Let me explain why. My question is, if you can't Explain why. That means it's been sitting there too long and it's no longer serving the purpose that it needs to serve. You talk about the importance of having a culture of evaluation. What we're talking about here is a part of that. That we're inviting fresh eyes and perspective. But it's not just on the new team members. It's top down, bottom up, sideways, 360. Everybody is evaluating all the time. How could we improve? How can we do better? Are we on mission? Are we aligned with what we're saying we want to do and what our activities are? It's so important yet so many big.

businesses feel like there's never time for that. Right. How do we make the time? How do we prioritize this? How do we make it part of our culture? I would say it's not an option, right? Evaluation is not an option. Like, I worked in a church for 15 years, and so we would do services on Sunday.

We evaluated on Monday. Like, that's part of the DNA of what we do. It is part of the day-to-day week-to-week operations. And what did that look like? Is it like watching game tape from... It could be. Yeah, if there was something that failed miserably from a host's perspective, from a musician perspective, whatever that piece is, you train your team on what we're looking for. We're training

around DNA. We're going to celebrate the things that we go, this is who we are. This is who we want to be. Let's keep focus. And one of the things, and again, I learned this from Andy, but I would ask the question of like, how do we know we're winning? Well, we know our values. We know these things. So based on yesterday's performance, quote unquote, how do we know we're winning? What did you feel like was success yesterday? But then it also allows us to go, what didn't work? Well, gosh, this person just derailed the whole thing when they said this whatever from stage. So we would kind of go piece by piece because we had a, you know, 60, 65 minute service that we were able to adjust. But let's say you're in the business space or you're trying to turn culture.

Man, if you don't have a system for evaluation on a consistent basis, even HR side of things, right? How often in most companies are they doing a true performance evaluation or staff, like human resource growth leadership opportunity? it's usually once a year. Some good companies are doing it twice a year, right? But then what happens when you walk in once a year if that's your growth opportunity? Whatever, you're just thinking, am I getting a raise? How's this going to turn in? What's my performance looking like? Are you happy with what I'm doing? If there is not consistent evaluation and feedback, we're losing the power of evaluation because I, you know, I'm always in my own little world. Like, and you're no, you only step in here when you don't like something, right?

I remember hearing this from a friend who's a season ahead. My boys are in middle school and about to finish elementary school. And he said, you know, you start as a policeman or a policewoman as a parent. Don't touch that. Don't fix that. You know, like, that's going to hurt you, whatever. Then you move to the parent season. I'm starting with my oldest to transition into the coaching season, which is really powerful

because I can't make all the decisions for him, but my job is to coach him towards good decisions. My job is to coach him towards that space. I think that's just a good understanding what evaluation really is. We've got to coach our leaders to think the ways in which we want to train them. And again, I learned this from Andy. I watched him do this for 10 years. Andy had this incredible ability that if a leader was acting counter to what I think they should be doing, instead of just pointing a finger and blaming them,

the question that comes in a good leader's mind is, what have I taught them to make them make that decision? because if you see what I mean, like that's a different leadership question because I'm going, I'm not just blaming you for making a dumb decision. Maybe, just maybe, there's a gap in the training that I've done. Maybe just maybe I have not given you enough clarity of what a win looks like, of what success looks like, of why or why not we wouldn't make that decision as an organization. But so many leaders don't spend that time, like you said, Daniel, we don't spend the time on it.

Instead, we just go to, gosh, what a terrible decision. Why wouldn't the world would you ever make that decision? Well, I'm really ready to listen. Dave Ramsey has gotten really good at this. And we almost laugh about it now because every once in a while I have a meeting with him that will start with him saying, I have failed you as a leader. And what I know is about to follow is how I kind of screwed up. But he starts with taking the responsibility.

But he owns it, doesn't he? He owns it. It's like, I have not taught you that I have expectations about this to be done this way. And it takes a lot of the shame out of it. And then we laugh and we learn together. And then we have a new vision for what success. is going to look like next time. But it's one of the places I screw up a lot as a leader. I think a lot of us do is we just assume people can read our minds. And when we don't take the time

to teach, Andy is so good at this, you're great at this. What you're saying in that culture of evaluation is there's also a lot of space that we make to teach people. We're educating. We're coaching. Absolutely. But it's actually taking the time to say, here's why it matters. Here's why we want to do it this way. Here's how we expect it to be done. And if we don't equip and train our team, and it's all about just go do the work as fast as possible, and we don't ever pan back. And as we said earlier, watch that game tape. We're really not setting them up for success. And as leaders, that's on us. Yep. And the truth is, right, Daniel? Everything we've said is based on this idea, we are not leading products. We are not leading tasks. We are leading people.

And so recognizing your profit gets better when your people get better. That's why this matters so much. Well, the book is amazing. Leading things you didn't start, but I think, as we said early, we're really all in that boat. If you go, yeah, but I'm the founder, it's really a book about transitions. And I think whether you're stepping into a new leadership role or you've been leading for a while and you're experiencing disruption or things need to be disrupted, lots of great principles in here, Tyler, for leaders who are navigating transitions. As we wrap up, what final thoughts would you share to leaders who are in the midst of a transition? Maybe they're a little bit weary. to navigate, offer some hope or some advice if we could distill this into one big thought as we close.

I started the whole book on a very simple note, and that's where I even said this is going to, we always tend to complicate leadership, right? If you're going to write a leadership book, let's make it more complicated. Let's sound really smart. What I also know, though, is that at the end of the day, like we've been talking, we're leading people. And so there was a principle that 2,000 years ago showed up and, you know, as a faith person, it's a simple principle of the fruit of the spirit and all it is saying is that, and I would say it's emotional intelligence is a lot of these things. But like my advice would be if you're stepping in, if you're in your space of transition, and you can just can display just a few of these things, joy, love, if you're patient,

if you're kind, if you're gentle, if you can just display a few of those, and I know they're soft skills and I know we're talking business and all these kind of things, and you're going, yeah, but what about, what about, what about? Here's what I'm telling you. If you display gentleness, and self-control when you lead the next generation, when you're stepping into a space you didn't start, you will gain influence because they recognize that this is not just about you, that you are actually working really hard to serve them as you're transitioning through your own insecurity, through your own space.

Imagine working for a leader who's going into it really difficult. The plane is on fire. They've got to make some hard decisions, but they're doing it with joy and kindness. I'm in. Like, I'm with you. I'm following you. There's just a value that gets placed.

And whether you're a faith person or not, these principles you know work. That simple thought of being the kind of person that has some fruit in their life that leaders want to follow, no matter whether they think you're completely competent yet or not. Man, that right there will get you started in the right way. Bro, this has been a fun conversation. Folks, he is Tyler Regan. The book is Leading Things You Didn't Start. Winning Big when you inherit People, Places, and Possibilities.

Tyler, thanks for your time on the Entree Leadership Podcast. We would love to have you back anytime. You got a lot of gold that you offered here today, and I'm sure there's more in there. So hopefully you can come back. But thank you for today. We appreciate it. Yeah.

Thanks for having me. And you can tell leadership kind of matters to me as it matters to you. So thanks for what you do and the way you serve leaders. All right, guys, great conversation with Tyler. A lot of practical takeaways there. And here's the thing. If you're currently not experiencing a leadership transition,

I don't want you to ignore this topic. Because healthy things grow and growing things. change. And so if your organization is healthy, it's going to be changing. And that means the org chart is going to change. The job descriptions are going to change. Roals are going to shift. People are going to move around. This should be a normal part of a growing organization, this idea of leadership transition. So make sure that you're talking about it with your leadership team. Make sure you guys are having conversations about how to do this well. Now, I've seen it done poorly. I've seen it done so poorly in certain organizations where a leadership transition,

and well, it was actually the beginning of the end for that company. That's not what we want. There's a lot at stake. So how do we do this in a way that doesn't set us back? We're going to talk about that right after this. All right, guys, big news today. We have an announcement for you. And about that announcement, we're going to have a conversation,

let you guys know how we got to this point. And we're breaking the format today. It's a special day. And so to have this conversation with me, I've brought a couple of my buddies in the studio. I've got operating board member and Ramsey leader Daniel Ramsey, and I've also got Ramsey network host, George Camels. So welcome to the Entree Leadership Podcast.

Thanks for having us. Great to be here. Thanks, Daniel. Glad you guys are here. So, George, you're a great host, and I'm a part of this story. So we're actually going to flip it. And instead of me being the host of this conversation, you're going to host a discussion here with me and Daniel about really some things that

have been going on over the last year or so that have led up to this big announcement today. So, Tarty, like you mentioned, big day, a lot of an event. announcements, but we kind of have to rewind a little bit 18 months ago when you and Dan Ram's started having some conversations. Take us back. Yeah, you bet. Well, you know, I started here at Ramsey 18 years ago. I grew up with this place and I'm passionate about our mission, certainly passionate about the entree leadership brand that I helped build. I was a young, green salesperson when I started and to get to have been a part of leading the entree leadership area until this point has just been, it's just been amazing. And I never imagined

any kind of transition tied to me being the leader of Vantre leadership. I feel like it's kind of been my baby. And 18 months ago, a few things started happening that had kind of this domino effect to what we're going to talk about. But one of them is we're running really hot as a company. COVID stuff was kind of kicking in. There's a lot of stress at the board level and my role. And then my dad got sick and developed cancer. And I've talked about this on this podcast, but he was sick for a few months. And then he passed away. And in the midst of all that, obviously the personal implications of just I was really close to my dad, and that was extremely emotionally difficult. But practically, he ran a business in Texas, and I kind of became the de facto leader on the side here while I'm still being the

EVP of Entree leadership and a board member. And I just put on my mask and I said, I'm going to make this happen. I didn't want anybody to think that I wasn't okay. And I even told myself, like, hey, you just got to, you got to ride this out. You know, I didn't have a lot of. of space for feeling my feelings or figuring out what it meant for me. And I was just running on adrenaline for several months, but it all kind of caught up to me last fall. And my body was kind of messing with me. You know, we've had John Deloney on this podcast and talking about the symptoms of really chronic stress and anxiety. And those alarms were going off for me. I wasn't sleeping. My head was foggy all the time. I didn't feel like I was leading well. And, you know, we all have

moments in leadership where we're not leading well and we shake it off. And the next week's a new week. and you kind of get back on the horse and things are fine. And I tried to do that for several weeks and even a couple months in a row, and it wasn't getting better. And I knew in talking with my wife and several close friends that I couldn't just keep faking it. I had to tell the truth and invite some other leaders in and say, hey, I'm not okay right now. I don't feel like I'm leading well right now. I wish I could fix this on my own, but I can't. And I just raised my hand and let Dave and Dan Ram know that, hey, I'm not doing good and I don't know what to do about it. Yeah, so that conversation And gosh, I guess it was late October or so.

But that picked up and we started talking about, all right, this is someone we care deeply about. And because of how long tardy's been at the company and because of our friendship with him, we didn't want to make a rash decision. We didn't want to say, hey, just because he is facing burnout that we need to hit the eject button. So we said, hey, while his tank is empty, we don't want to make any long-term decisions. And so we said, hey, for now, what if we did a sabbatical? Dave threw out that idea. And sabbatical is an ambiguous thing, but we decided that in that sabbatical, we would have some structure to it where he would still be plugged in. We'd still be grabbing lunch and hanging out a little bit just to keep our finger on the pulse while he's processing all this. But basically the idea here being, let's get his tank full so that he can make a decision long term that we can all really feel good about.

And so that's what we did. We spent 90 days doing that. In that, you made a decision. Yeah, so I knew at that point, I knew I needed to step down from the role as EVP of Entree leadership. And I had a pretty strong sense. I wouldn't be coming back into that role. It's been an honor. I've gotten to enjoy growing and developing and becoming an executive, and I've done that out of passion for our mission, out of duty.

But I also knew at this point, there's something in me that's this scrappy artist, creative, entrepreneur thing that doesn't necessarily fit squarely in how that role is structured today. the role's not bad and I'm not bad, it's just like we kind of had become misaligned. And I had clarity at least on that much. And so I let these guys know that. Yeah. That was a crazy time. For me, sitting there, I got to see my friend who I care about go through this. Additionally, this area of Entree leadership that I cared a lot about also had a major hole in it. I looked over and saw the opportunity. I saw the things that it needed through conversations with God. Ultimately, I threw my hat the ring and said, hey, I think that I think I'm being called to step. step into this role. And so that's what happened. That happened about six months ago when Tarty made that decision. I stepped in as the executive vice president and I've been with that team and it's been incredible for the last couple months. Wow. So Tarty, the sabbatical's over. You're back. You're feeling the stirring. And what led you to a decision? Well, the sabbatical was super generous, fully paid. I mean, I was just humbled by the support from my friends and this organization, how much they believed in, just helping me kind of get restored. And so it afforded us the opportunity.

to get my dad's business sold. That was a huge rock that I was, you know, I was concerned about the future of the business and setting my mom up financially and the employees out in West Texas that some of my granddad had hired. I just felt the sense of duty to the legacy of my family to really do that well. And Dave's gift of the sabbatical allowed us to do that. And then I had a couple months after that happened to just kind of sit there and think about my life. I'm coming up on 40 years old. It's kind of this halftime season. I've had almost two incredible decades here at Ramsey. and I was asking, am I still supposed to be here? I hope so, but I don't know.

There's a lot of reasons to stay, and there really wasn't any bad reason to leave, but I just felt like there's something pulling on my heart that I might not be in season here anymore. And I got a lot of counsel, as Dan Ram said, we were having lunches. I was talking with these guys a lot. I really had not made a decision. I really was kind of hoping that God would show me my path back into Ramsey, so to speak, maybe in a different capacity. The net, though, is that ultimately my wife and I figured out that we have this entrepreneur itch that really isn't just an itch.

It's something that's a passion in our hearts that we need to scratch. And I've gotten to do a lot of entrepreneurial things here, but we have made the decision and feel like that's calling us to launch out, step away from Ramsey, this place that I love, and start our own business, helping leaders. And we don't have a big vision. We don't know exactly what it looks like today. But we know that we're going to sail out of the Ramsey Harbor and out into the open sea. and be business owners. Wow. And that leaves one giant question, Tarty.

What's going to happen with this podcast? George Camel is going to be our new host. So that's why you've kind of been on some of these episodes coming up so people can get used to who is this guy, George. So this is the big announcement today that you are going to be the host of the Entree Leadership podcast in this season. And if you guys know George from Entree Leadership Summit, you know he's a lot of fun, super engaging, very intelligent.

But what I love is you've got a huge heart to help people win. And that's what this podcast is all about. So you're going to kill it. Thank you. Congratulations. It's an honor. It truly is. I don't take this lightly. I've always had deep respect for the Entre leadership team. They are on a different level, even comparatively to the other business units here at Ramsey. They're just an incredible team. They're so passionate. They're so driven. I wish every listener could walk the floor on the Entree leadership team and just feel it. There's an energy in the air. Well, hey, here's the thing, guys. Big day, big transitions. I'm excited that the future of Entree leadership as as bright as it's ever been. And so you guys are going to continue to get great content

from this podcast. We're going to ship every Monday like we always have. We're going to continue to bring you guys powerful conversations with leaders, thought leaders from the outside, but also Ramsey leaders internally so that you guys can really digest the Entree Leadership Playbook. We're still committed to small business. We're still passionate about helping small business owners win. So a lot of transition happening here. We've got Tarty transitioning out and Dan Ram, you transitioning in. So I want to unpack and kind of pull back the curtain about how we do transition well and maybe how you haven't done a well in the past. Yeah. So, I mean, first of all, looking at the way Tarty handle this situation was perfect. The communication up front often couldn't

have gone better. I mean, he was really pouring his heart out. And we were grabbing lunch consistently throughout that sabbatical. And he was with several other board members as well. And so that made this whole thing, you know, it wasn't a surprise by the end of it. You know, it was a slow cooking thing that we all eventually when the decision was made, it was obvious. And we were happy for him as our friend because we knew that this season was up. So in regards to me transitioning in, I've transitioned teams a couple times over the years and I've done it really poorly. So I knew what not to do this time. And of course, I didn't do it perfectly, but I tried the best I could. And in the past, what I had done is I came in and as a new leader coming into a new area, you have considerable amount

of vision. You see things from an outside perspective. So you see the problems. You see the opportunities. You see what needs to change. In the past, I'd come in, guns ablaze in, just telling everyone what was stupid and what was wrong and what we needed to change. And I didn't take the time to really understand the history, understand how we got to the decisions that were made. And so in this round, honestly, I took about six weeks where I didn't make any decisions. I came in. I had a lot of meetings with people. I got to know people. I went, gosh, we have a, you. a cafe here at our building. And I honestly sat there for most of every day. I had 45-minute meetings with a bunch of team members all throughout entree leadership, whether they were coach on our team,

a salesperson, all the way up to our leaders. And I just asked them questions. I got to know them as a person first. And then I started asking them questions like, what do you excited about? What do you enjoy? What do you think is awesome about entree leadership? Then I asked them like, hey, shoot me straight here. I'm the new guy. What might need to change? What are some things that frustrate you? What are things that I should be aware of as, a new guy. Man, building that trust and spending that time with the team, the things I learned were were so incredibly helpful. It gave me the full spectrum. It gave me the full story. And it gave me a lot of grace, too, for knowing where we were and why we were where we were. That's huge. So I'm hearing

two things here. Tarty transitioning out, a lot of open, honest communication, up front, early on, ongoing, all of those things. And then you gave us some kind of lessons that you've done poorly, but this time around, and I've seen you in the cafe meet with all these people. Well, you're really just letting the team know that you care and that you're building those relationships, which builds trust. And we talk about how we move at the speed of trust, which is going to make you a better leader, make the team trust you, and have the whole thing run more smoothly. Any tips from you, Tarty, on transitioning out or in? Well, I'll just say, and you've heard me in Sarah Sloy, and we did a whole conversation on this

podcast about transitioning. If I did anything well, I think it's just that I took my own medicine. and that is that when the restless feeling was a two out of ten, I started communicating about it. And I want to speak to, there's a couple of people in our audience. One is that business owner who can really control the culture top down. And if that's you, I would just challenge you to make sure that it's a safe environment for people to say, hey, I'm not doing okay. And that doesn't automatically mean they're out of here. Because if you don't do that, people are going to feel the pressure to have everything buttoned up. They're going to make a decision. They're going to be faking it for four to six months until they have their parachute ready, and then you're going to be surprised and it's not going to end well.

Oftentimes what we've seen when someone in our environment, where it is safe to say that, if they have the maturity to raise their hand and see I'm not doing okay, I would say four times out of five, we fold them into something that is them going forward with us. We tweak their KRA a little bit. We have enough room to kind of work on things. We hear them out. Sometimes we can fix some things with their compensation. So, you know, being able to have that open communication is a big piece of this. And so Ramsey has that environment. And so I knew it was safe and I knew my friendship with Dave and I wasn't going to be like, you know, ostracized all of a sudden if I just said, guys, I don't feel like I'm winning right now as a leader. To that person who is

maybe thinking about they're not doing okay, one, make sure that it's a safe environment. I mean, I don't know your culture and there are some places where you can't do that. So I'm not saying just be sloppy with this. But also, I would say if it is a safe place to do that in your workplace, don't make a decision and then just use this as a way to kind of go through a process to help manufacture a narrative. Like, I really didn't know. I just knew I wasn't okay. I wanted the clarity of a decision. I wanted all the stuff to be buttoned up. And it was the weirdest thing to kind of just step out on faith and go, guys, I don't know where this is going, because I really didn't. I didn't have something lined up on the side. We still don't even have the next thing

figured out. I mean, as I've been here, I've been all in here. I haven't been lining up, you know, the next plans or whatever. And that's a weird feeling. It takes a lot of trust and it takes faith. But I would just say when it's a two out of ten, that's when you start going, hey, I'm not sure what the thing is. And just remember, most of the time it doesn't actually result in leaving. A lot of times it results in a mature conversation with business leaders going, what can we

change? How can we tweak stuff? That should be a normal part of a healthy growing organization is that the job descriptions and the way that we work is shifting all the time to continue to keep people in their sweet spot. Yeah. I mean, I've had, what, five roles in my eight years here. And all of them, some of them, like you said, Dan Ram, weren't done as well on my end. But as I've shifted, we have an incredible leadership team.

And that's part of it is just trusting leadership to do their job well, to go, they're going to figure this out. And what you're saying over here with a safe environment, there's a lot of people, you know, we say we hire thoroughbreds and not don'tkeys. And when you're a thoroughbred, you don't want to drop the ball. You don't want people to think that you can't handle your responsibility in your KRA. So what you do is you just white-knuckle it like you're talking about. And that can lead to burnout. It can lead to resentment. And so being honest and up front with your leader, trusting that they've got your back and that they want what's best for you. So, so key. So that's huge, guys. Thank you for kind of sharing a lot about transitioning well. And part of that is I was in an advisory group call the other day. And there was some issue with a leader going, a business owner saying, hey, I'm trying to raise up a new leader. I want to intercept everything in my brain into their brain. That seems to be such a struggle for the business owners.

out there. You guys have led a lot of people in your time here. What tips could you give to that business owner who's going, hey, I'm on the treadmill, but I don't want to be. I need to rise up. I need to bring in some new leadership. How do I make sure that they're doing the things that I want them to do and do it the way I want it done? I think as a leader, one of the top things you can do is be very highly aware of what's going on with the team. And so there's a couple ways you can do that. First of all, the reason why it's important to be highly aware is so you can sift out things. You can see things before they happen. You can get ahead of things. When you see a team member who might be a little bit frustrated, you can curb that frustration before it becomes toxic. Or if you see a team

member who might be being underutilized, get with them, talk to them, figure out how could their role maybe change, or what are things you could plug them into to really make them satisfied and also give them an opportunity to step up? So one of the things that I actually learned from you, Tarty, several years ago, you actually moved out of your office and set up a desk on the floor with the rest of your team. And that's one thing that I've done in the Atre area is I actually, they gave me a big fan, they gave me your fancy office. And I still have that. I still use it for meetings and I use it when I need to be heads down. But for the most part, I try to sit on the floor with the rest of the team. And what that does for me is two things. It allows me to be very aware of what's going on. I get to overhear things. I get to see things that I wouldn't see if I was behind a closed door.

Secondly, it makes the team realize that I'm available. I'm more approachable because I'm out there with them. And so I tell them like, hey, if you don't see me with headphones on, you're welcome to come ask me a question. It saves me from having way more emails than I should. It also helps people come to me when they have an issue. So it makes them more comfortable coming to me. It also gives me more opportunities to come to them or to seek them out or to see them

and notice them in ways that I want it otherwise. Yeah, you're really good at that. You know, the biggest mistakes I've made in leadership are when I'm I have made assumptions. I've made assumptions that people know that I'm proud of them without actually saying it. I made assumptions that people could read my mind and know what our vision is without slowing down and communicating it. I've made assumptions that everybody was bought in when I gave a talk and said, this is what we're doing, this is where we're going, and I didn't slow down and ask questions and get feedback. And so Daniel models this really well, but when he sat down in the cafe and had, you know,

the speed dating 45 minutes, everybody comes in. That's exactly what it was. He was making himself available to listen. and really getting that feedback from your team. And so I know the question is, how do I download everything in my mind into their mind? That kind of comes as a natural byproduct when you've spent enough time hearing what is and isn't in their mind and through making yourself available and creating the space for that communication,

which you really prioritized. Because I know you weren't bored in that season. There's a lot going on. I mean, you're a board member, you're on committees, there's all kinds of stuff you had to fight to create that time in your calendar to be available to listen.

And it's only in those, you know, kneecap to kneecap discussions that you can really infuse what's in your head into their mind and it happens over time. You can't do it in one meeting. So it's a constant thing that we have to fight for as leaders. Yeah. Well, I'm hearing a lot of takeaways here. I want to sum it up for our listeners, open, honest communication in a safe environment. That is so key. Being available, being aware, and not making assumptions. Also such a huge piece and really building relationships with your team. I think when you have trust, and when there's a relationship there, it's going to be real hard to not transition well if those

two pieces are there. So thank both of you for being here, being so open and honest in a safe space. We're doing this. We are doing this really well. And Daniel, I'm super proud of you. You're going to be, and you already are. You have been in the first few months, but you as the EVP, the captain at the wheel for this season, man, I'm pumped, and you're the right guy for the job. And I've seen so much growth in you as a leader through the years. and you're more than ready and more than capable. And your style of leadership, I think, is exactly what's right for this season. So congratulations. I'm pumped for you.

I'm proud to hand the torch off to you and your leadership and watch you continue to run. I'll be cheering for you. And talking about the future, Daniel, we've got a lot of things that we've got to do here in Entree leadership. A lot of things you're excited about as you take the helm. So can you give us just a little tease what is to come for Entree leadership? Yeah, for sure, George. So in addition, I talked about transitioning. I talked about taking a lot of time to learn and sitting down on team members. Well, I also did the same with customers. I spent a lot of time learning about what are our customers experiencing. What are they missing? And the pain points, the main problems we heard were four consistent themes. And those themes just real quick are, firstly, they need the how. They want the tactical how to do the things we teach. And so we've been doing that more and more on the podcast recently. And going forward, you're going to hear more of that. Secondly, time is there most limited resource. As business owners, we are all incredibly busy. We don't have much margin in our

lives. So how can we bring things into your world, you business owner, to help equip you and give you more time back? The third is, obviously, some of our biggest pain points we hear from y'all are around leading people, developing people, and so we want to bring more and more of that. And then lastly, this is something that is not always verbalized, but it's experienced, which is it's lonely at the top. as a business owner, who do you talk to about the issues you're having with your team? Who do you talk to about the issues of running a business? You know, it's inappropriate. It's weird to go talk to your team members about some of those things.

So how can we get other business owners around you? How can we bring community, whether that be our coaches or other business owners? How can we help alleviate that? And so we're going to really be trying to solve those four problems across everything we do on this podcast, at our events, through our coaching program. And of course, Entree Leadership Elite is going to be the place that brings a lot of that together. And so, yeah, we're so excited about the opportunities we have to solve those problems. And the team's working on some pretty awesome stuff, but I'm not going to unveil any of that just yet. That was perfect.

Well, I'm pumped for what's to come under your leadership. And I'm sure a lot of listeners are going, oh, my gosh, this guy gets me. As they heard you unpack those pain points. So thank you for your leadership, your spirit. I'm just so pumped for where we're headed. and Tardy, we're going to miss you, man. Thank you. Man, I'm going to miss you guys.

I'm going to miss this audience. And so I'm signing off for the last time, but I will continue to cheer for you guys from off the microphone for the rest of my life because I believe in you, the small business owner, and I'm about to be one of you. So thank you for the honor of getting to do this. Hope you guys enjoyed the episode of the show today.

If you did, leave us a review and subscribe so you don't miss out on the next episode. And if you're small business owner between about 2 and 200 team members, we'd love to hear your feedback on the show, ask you some questions. And so if you want to help us out with that, just click on the link in the show notes to fill out a brief survey and schedule a call with Tim the producer. Also, you can follow us as always on social media at Entree Leadership. This episode was produced by Tim Hull, edited by Zach Bennett, and mixed and mastered by Will Rudder. And for the last time, I'm your host, Daniel Tarty, and on behalf of George Camel, Daniel Ramsey, and the entire Entree leadership team, thanks for listening. Until next time, keep learning and keep leading.

If you enjoy this podcast, you should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network, like The Rachel Cruz Show. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz, and I'm so excited to tell you about my podcast. A lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck. They're in debt. They don't even know where to begin, but they have this need, this want to get in control of their money. And if that's you, you have come to the right spot. So in each episode, you're going to get a ton of inspiration and practical. advice. If not subscribe to the Rachel

Cruise Show podcast, make sure you do it today. To hear full episodes, just search Rachel Cruz wherever you listen to podcasts or go to ramsysolutions.com slash shows.