EntreLeadership - How to Lead With Intentionality and Purpose with Jordan Lee Dooley

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

Join us as our host, George Kamel, talks to Jordan Lee Dooley, an entrepreneur, a podcaster and a bestselling author. Jordan explains how to use your drive to propel you forward—and how to be content with where you’re at. She also gives you tips that'll help you navigate when life happens and things get off track. Later in the episode, George chats with Chris Campbell, the senior vice president of Financial Coaching at Ramsey Solutions, about how Chris’ habits have helped him level up as a leader. Then Chris shares some key questions you can use to grow your self-awareness and leadership.   You’ll learn: Why you might be leading with the wrong intentions Why failure can be your biggest opportunity The habits successful leaders have Four questions to make you a more effective leader   Support our sponsors: BELAY: https://bit.ly/351P9AE Hite Digital: https://bit.ly/HiteDigital NetSuite: https://bit.ly/NetSuiteEntre Kyro Digital: https://bit.ly/KyroDigital   Links mentioned in this episode: The EntreLeadership Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheEntreLeadershipPodcast Jordan Lee Dooley’s website: https://bit.ly/33GrxRV SHE with Jordan Lee Dooley podcast: https://apple.co/3IcvFIl Embrace Your Almost by Jordan Lee Dooley: https://amzn.to/36zDN7Z The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer: https://amzn.to/3sduCTb Learn more about financial coaching: https://bit.ly/3LPui4G Learn more about EntreLeadership Advisory Groups: https://bit.ly/36ydf77 Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl: https://amzn.to/3MaDgJU Download 10 Days of Intentionality: https://bit.ly/3h9hnwg Share your feedback with Tim, our producer: https://bit.ly/3bJOSmi   Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: EntreLeadership Summit: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipSummit EntreLeadership Master Series: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipMasterSeries   Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: Elite: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipElite Advisory Groups: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipAdvisoryGroups Executive Coaching: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipExecutiveCoaching Workshops: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipWorkshops Weekly Report Tool: https://bit.ly/WeeklyReportTool   Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download the Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you're listening to this, you're probably a driven person. You've got goals to improve, to grow, to scale, which are all good things. But we also know the importance of contentment and enjoying the ride. So how do you live in that tension of drive and contentment as a growth-focused leader? From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. I'm your host, George Camel, and today's episode is all about balancing contentment and drive as a leader. Our first guest today is Jordan Lee Dooley. She's an entrepreneur, podcaster, and bestselling author with a new book coming out called

Embrace Your Almost, Find Clarity and Contentment in the Inbetweens, Not Quites, and unknowns. We're going to talk about how to use your drive to propel you forward, but also be content with where you're at. She'll also help you navigate what to do when life happens and things get off track. Our second conversation is with Ramsey leader Chris Campbell, and he's going to share the habits that he's developed and maintained that have helped him continually grow in his leadership. Up first, my conversation with Jordan Lee Dooley. Jordan's so great to have you in studio.

Thank you for having me. It's so fun to be here. So this is a fun conversation we're going to have today. And it's all about contentment versus drive. And our listeners, they're very driven people. They're successful. They're leaders in their business. And they're always trying to get better. But what is an important question to ask ourselves as we set those goals and we want to grow?

we're working towards this thing. Yeah, it's such a good question. I am the same way. I obviously am like an ultimate achiever. I've driven myself into the ground. And I think the thing that is really important to ask ourselves is a, I call it the single most important question. And it's why. And I don't necessarily mean like why that we're used to hearing in the typical sense of, no, you're why. Like, yeah, that's important. But I mean to every single goal, to every single accomplishment that we're trying to achieve. Because I think sometimes we set goals or we try to pursue things simply because we think they sound good or because we saw someone else achieve them or because, well, that's naturally what you do, right? My business hit this level this year, so I need to double it

by next year. And so in this constant, like, state of drive, sometimes we end up just arbitrarily pursuing things that can actually burn us out. It can actually really drive ourselves into the ground. So I think a really key question is, why am I doing X, Y, or Z? Why do I want to double my business this year? Why do, And if there's not really like a clear answer other than it sounds good, you know, that was a really big conviction for me. My husband and I were having a conversation one year. And it was so ironic because I was in this place where I was like, I want to try to reduce my stress. I want to work smarter, not harder. And then we were looking at some goals I had for the year, and he pointed to one project, and he said, okay, well, what do you want to make on this goal or on this project?

And I threw out some big number, and he goes, okay, awesome, why? And I remember I just felt like he could, like, see my soul. I was like, I don't know because it sounds good. Like, I didn't really have an answer. And that was the first time that I was really challenged to consider, why am I pursuing the things that I'm pursuing? And making sure that the financial goals that I have or any other, like, achievement that I'm working toward in my business is to actually move the needle on the things

that I really need to do that actually really benefit me in my business and the things that I'm working toward this year. So we really dug into that. And I was like, well, I want to hire a new team member. And he's like, okay, what do we need to actually do that? And that's not to say, like, settle for the base level of what you need. Like, anything over that is great, right? But sometimes I think we set these really big, lofty goals and then we can end up driving ourselves into the ground. And it's not even really what we need to accomplish the thing that we actually want to accomplish. Yeah. It's a great question to ask. Do you think a lot of that is driven by, you know, numbers aren't, easy metric to throw out there to feel like you're successful. Without a metric and without that

number, we don't really know if we're doing the right thing. Is that part of it? Oh, 100%. I think, and we're so used to hearing numbers. Numbers are measurables and measurables do matter in business. It's not that we want to get numbers out of the way completely or that they're not important. But I think, you know, I had to kind of shift how I view even numbers because I think a lot of times we set financial goals and we say, okay, let's just throw out an easy number. So maybe you say, my goal is $100,000 in revenue on this project or on this thing. Okay, so you've turned the amount of money into a goal. And money's kind of lost what I think it's ultimately meant to be, which is a vehicle to get you to the goal. So if your goal is, I want to have more time with my kids, and so therefore

I need an assistant to help me, or I need additional help in this department so we can grow in this area and I can develop people. Okay, what are we going to need to do that? So it's changing, like the goal is the actual like lifestyle, the impact, the thing you want to do and the money or the numbers, the amount of people, the amount of sales, the amount of revenue, that's actually just like the fuel in the vehicle that's getting you there, if that makes sense. So it's kind of shifting your perspective on how am I viewing numbers and am I making the number the goal or am I making sure I remember that that's actually just the fuel that will get me to the goal I'm really working toward. Yeah, the number is not the end goal. There's another result that you're really

wanting underneath that and a lot of people don't dig deep enough to go, what is that real thing? Because once you hit that next number, you're going to go, well, now we eat another number, another number. And you feel like you're just spinning. Exactly. Yeah, it's a great question to ask. So the problem with all this drive is it can lead us into this perpetual state of discontentment where it's never enough and we're never really celebrating or looking back. We're always just going, all right, what's the next thing? What's the next thing?

Yeah. How do we make sure that we don't spin out of control when we always want that next thing done? What do we do with all of that discontentment? Yeah, it's a really good question. And I actually want to revert back to that story I was just sharing because that was the moment for me when my husband asked me, okay, why? And then we actually looked at, well, what do we really really only needed to make like a quarter of what I thought I did? Because we can have these big ideas of like, well, it costs a million dollars to hire people. And, you know, it just feels like overwhelming when you're building something. And so anyway, going back to that point, I think that was the first time I was challenged to consider what it looks like to define enough. And there's a huge difference between settling and. being complacent and defining enough because the big, it's actually a skill I think we have to develop is what does it look like to define enough? Not forever, not for, I'm just going to cap myself out here and I'm never going to, no, we don't want to limit our potential. But to look at the next year of your business and of

your life and consider like, what are all the stressors that I'm carrying? What are all the things? Because if I'm stressed, if I'm lacking in health, if I'm not thriving, that will actually hurt my organization. That might cause me to, I might reach the goal this year of hitting this revenue or hitting the sales or hitting this number I've set. And if I hurt myself or my team in the process trying to get there and I've not defined enough for what's actually going to allow us to thrive, it's going to hurt my team next year because we're going to feel the repercussions of that. So it really, I think, in that state of feeling discontent, I think it's going back to asking yourself, let me actually look at the needs, the goals that truly align with what I value.

And when I do that, then I can say, how can I define enough this year? If we can surpass that, awesome. We'll celebrate it. We'll cheer. like that's great. But I know that if we can get to this point and we can sustain that, we're still going to be in good, and we're going to be in good shape. I'm not going to burn myself out in the process or burn my team out in the process. So I actually think there's a lot of wisdom and honestly power in defining enough because in the world of business and the world of leadership, it's always more. It's more, more and more. And I think sometimes taking a step back and saying, I'm going to define enough for myself, sets us up to be actually, to actually be

able to do more of what matters and to do more of the things we actually really want to be doing, not just more of what we think we should be doing. And that takes more on the front end, building that foundational groundwork of what are we doing this for? Do we want, you know, a thousand plus person company like Dave Ramsey built? Or are we good having five people and we just love what we do and it's not, you know, out of control? Because a lot of people, you know, I have entrepreneurial friends and they go, we need

more clients because we need more money so that we can do this, this, this and this. And they get more clients and they go, this is the biggest headache. We have 25 clients. We can never keep up. We need to scale back down. And so that's what ends up happening when you don't have the right result and the right goal in mind. That and I also think it's knowing your season of life. For example, if you are in a chaotic personal season of life and you're trying to grow this

and you're in this constant chronic state of more, more, more, simply because I think a bigger business is what's better. But if actually, and again, it's not about settling. It might be for these three years, I need to keep it at this size. This works. This serves the lifestyle. Maybe you're a new parent. And maybe your purpose of being an entrepreneur is to actually have time with your family.

And what I think is ironic is we leave nine to fives to have more time freedom and then end up working 24-7. And this happens a lot with entrepreneurs. So it's not that growth is bad. It's not that we should avoid it. But it's just knowing your season. It's knowing where am I in life and what are the priorities that I have? And is this the time for me to try to scale? You know, I think the myth of scaling sometimes can create this like unnecessary pressure and lead us to do things that maybe aren't actually right for our organization or our season of life.

So it's saying maybe this year and next year is not a year to triple our business. Maybe it's to maintain and to do that really well and to get really good systems in place so that when we do want to scale three, four, five years down the road, we have the systems in place to do that and we feel really confident in the direction we're going. So that's really key to. Yeah. We talk a lot around here about the six drivers of business and it starts with personal and purpose and people and product and plan and profit and all these great things.

But like you're saying, you can't do them all amazingly at one. time. And so you might be in a season where I've got to focus on myself personally as a leader, as a father, all these things, get that and check. Then I can move into the purpose and the people and work on the team dynamic. We can work on the product and our profits and all those pieces, but it's hard to do it all at once because you feel like I'm never doing enough. Right. And that's, I think, where you get into this cycle of discontentment and not defining enough, not knowing where do my priorities really need to be. Because especially, like I said, in the world of entrepreneurship, we're constantly hearing examples of somebody else who doubled their business or

or who tripled their team size or who did something. And it can create this like, oh gosh, we got to do that. We got to get more clients. And it's like, do you? Do you? Maybe your friend did. Maybe your colleague did. But do you.

And I think when you can be really honest with yourself about that answer, you're going to have a lot more clarity and a lot more confidence in the decisions that you do make and the goals you said. Yeah. Most people in business, there's a competitive spirit. Of course. And we say around here comparisons are the thief of joy. And it's so easy when you compare yourself to Dave Ramsey and you go, well, I'm not this,

I don't have as many team members. I don't have the resources. I don't have the success that this person has. And that's one of those things where you can spiral because you're always pointing to the, it's great to have those people in your life and mentors and things you look up to. But when it becomes this thing where it's never enough, that's where it gets dangerous. I mean, I walked in this building today and I'm like, wow, this would be cool to have something like this one day. But actually, then you know, you step back and you're like, but I'm really happy with where I'm at right now.

And it's allowing me to thrive. And so, and also you've got to consider all the factors. Somebody that you're comparing yourself to has probably been doing this three or four more decades than you. And even if they haven't, you have to remember. you have to remember that there's just so many differences of the way you were brought up and your experiences and the things that you're walking through in this time of your life. So, you know, it's just, it's, it's kind of leaning back into like, but what I'm doing for me is what's really working for me or what I'm doing for my team is what's really working. And I'm in the right lane and I need to keep my head down on that. So, yeah, I 100% agree.

Dave's big on sharing how we started this thing on a card table in his living room. And it was one team member. And then it was two and three and 30 years later, he's an overnight success. And they go, well, yeah, easy for Dave to say. but, you know, he has had such an incredible journey, and there's been a lot of ups and a lot of downs and a lot of struggles. But that's being an entrepreneur. That's what you sign up for in leadership, right? Exactly. So inevitably, life happens.

Things get off track. When we have our goals and everything's working out, life's great. But how do you deal with things when you feel like a failure because things didn't go to plan? How have you gotten through that situation in your life? Yeah, you know, I think I've had to learn the hard way that setbacks can really be set-ups. and that feels really weird to say because it doesn't feel like that in the moment. But I think we all know what it's like to experience a near miss.

I always tell the story of when I was in high school and I ran track. Didn't really want to run track. Just did it because my friends were, again, arbitrary reasons. But I was told by the coach that I was going to run the 400 meter dash. And for those who are not familiar with what that is, that is a full on sprint around the track. There's no jogging. There's no slowing down. There's no pacing yourself.

It's just an all-out sprint. And I was really nervous about that. That was not something I wanted to do. but I was also an achiever, and I was like, well, now I got to prove that I could do it, right? So I take my place at the starting line. The race starts, and I'm about three quarters away around the track coming to the last 100 meters, and I realize I'm neck and neck for first place, and it's my first race. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I could actually win this thing, right?

And so anyways, I'm running in all of a sudden about 10 yards before the finish line, this image of Olympic runners that I had seen on TV like pops into my brain. And you know how they like lean over the finish line to try to finish before their opponent? So, like, I decided to do that, even though I had no experience with that tactic. And so I lean and my momentum carries me forward and I fall, arms out. And my hands, I mean, my fingertips are like an inch short of the track. Bruised, skinned up everywhere. Everyone runs past me.

I was about to finish first and ended up finishing dead last. Wow. And it was one of those moments where like I look back on that at the time I was like, I want to crawl in a hole and never go back to school, right? I'm like 15 years old. But that experience has stuck with me because I think it's a good lesson in like, we all know what it's like to fall just short of the finish line, to feel like, I've got this, everything's going my way.

I'm about to hit my goal and then out of nowhere a curveball comes. You trip over your own two feet. Something sets to hold you back or you even have the realization of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, something's not right. This isn't right for me. So whether that's, I mean, and it can feel like a broken dream, you know, and it can be embarrassing to feel like something just totally threw me off track. So anyways, I share that story to just say like I get it because that's happened obviously

in more significant ways in business and in life. There's zeros on the end of it. Exactly. Yeah. Not just your ego. Yeah, exactly. And so anyways, what I've had to learn, though, is like sometimes those almost is kind of what I call them is like these, I almost succeeded. I almost reached the milestone. I was on

track for everything to go how I thought. And suddenly I'm not where I thought I would be. I'm face down on the track, you know, whatever. And I've had to learn that as much as those are devastating at times, sometimes they're due to a devastating experience or just super discouraging or embarrassing. They also hold a really unique invitation. And the invitation that I've kind of experienced to the opportunity, which I hesitate to use that word because it doesn't always feel like a good thing. But I found that in those almost and those things that almost work out and then don't, there's this opportunity to reevaluate what really matters to you. And if the goal that you're chasing or the race that you're trying to win is actually right for you, like, you know, you might find I actually don't care to be number one in my industry. I've been working so hard chasing after that.

I just want to do my job well. Like maybe I don't like what we were talking about a minute ago. I actually don't want to have a thousand person organization. That's not what I desire. I've gotten so caught up in like the race and beating so and so or keeping up with so and so. And this setback has actually given me the opportunity to pause and reevaluate and consider like, where am I going and why am I going there? And if you can't answer that clearly, like that's where that kind of in-between or that unexpected interruption can give you some space that maybe you wouldn't have otherwise had had you just kept going and kept racing and kept finishing to really consider like where am I going and why and let me evaluate everything on my plate and all the commitments we've made both as a person and as a leader but also as an organization or as a business.

and consider, like, is that right for us? And there is some weird invitations. And in my situation, my experience, when I've done that, everything that comes out of that as much as it stinks in the moment to feel like, man, that was a major setbacker. Like, that was not fun. Every decision that comes out of that is so much clarity. Like, adversity, I always say adversity can create clarity.

Like, we want clarity in our business. We want clarity on the next step. We want clarity on where we're going. And to be honest, sometimes it's the setbacks that give us that clarity the most. Well, this brings me, the title of your book is interesting. Embrace your almost, find clarity and contentment in the in-betweens, the not-quites, and the unknowns. And if you're listening to this and you've been in business in the last two years, there's been a lot of in-betweens and not-quites and unknowns. Yes, yes.

So how do you find that contentment? Why is that important for leaders to practice this? Yeah. Well, I think because kind of what I was touching on, when we're not able to slow down and reevaluate and define enough, which is essentially what contentment is, it's not getting complacent and saying, I'm just going to sit down and do nothing. It's just saying, I've got to be content where I'm at and define enough so that I don't lean so far or hustle so fast that I don't finish well. I actually finish on my face. You know, anyway, I think it's really key because if we're not content in the present and

we don't have the discipline to self-regulate and to say, hold on, let me reevaluate where we're going and make sure that the goals we're pursuing our right and, you know, we're working at a sustainable pace and things like that. If we don't have that, we will drive ourselves into the ground and we will lack clarity on the future because it just becomes a chronic hustle. It just becomes a nonstop production and nonstop producing of outcomes, revenue, and that's all great stuff. But without the contentment piece, without knowing how to define enough in your present, you will start to lack clarity on your future. And when you lack clarity on your future, how can you lead anybody?

You can't lead anyone into a vision if that starts to get cloudy because you're all discombobulated over here and you're lacking clarity on where are we going and why are we going there. And you always have to be reevaluating that as a leader every year, every quarter. otherwise the next quarter, the next year, and the next five years kind of becomes a jumbled mess of just more and more and more. Yeah. And as you're talking about this, I keep thinking about the team that you're leading and how you're going to drive them into the ground. And they don't have the clarity. And so they don't really understand why they're even doing all of this. They just feel like a rat in a wheel getting spun out and burnt out. We're seeing so many people with this great resignation go like, this isn't it.

And a lot of that stems from poor leadership. Yep. They don't understand the purpose of what they're doing. and their arbitrary goals that they're setting of sales calls or whatever the thing is, and they're going, I don't know why the leader set this. Well, and they feel like their energy is not spent on clear objectives, and they begin to feel like their energy is not spent on a clear mission that they can get on board with. And even if there's a mission on your wall, maybe you've got that, like, you know,

but if you're not able to, if that doesn't carry through your organization and that doesn't carry through the disciplines and the behaviors and the decisions you make as a leader, what happens really quickly is everyone gets confused, you know, and you kind of start ping ponging around and you're just doing stuff to do stuff. So that's why it's like, you know, sometimes the setbacks and all the changes in the uncertainties give you the option. And I think as a leader, it's really key. And I've had to learn this the hard way with my small team is just like admitting like, hey, guys, we're in a reset, you know, or I'm trying to work on getting some clarity and making sure we're headed in a clear direction and we're all in the same

page. So like hang with me. Give me your feedback, you know, like inviting them into those decisions where it's appropriate and also admitting like your humanness in the process and saying, hey, I don't have like a crystal ball with like 100% clarity. I just got totally disrupted or something went sideways. So I've got to gather myself. We've got a process. I'd love to hear feedback and thoughts from you so that we can make a really clear game plan for where we're going and why. I think that's sometimes hard as a leader because you want them to look to you as the answer.

The leader's got all the answers. They're perfect. And we know that we're not. But I think sometimes in those setbacks and those uncertainties and those almost, those are actually really sweet opportunities, not only to reevaluate where you're going and why, but also invite your people into. that space and say like, hey, we're going to figure this out together, but let's make sure we don't move and do pointless busy work and things just to feel like we're doing something. Let's make sure we're all moving in a really clear direction for a really clear purpose. Yeah, some amazing trust can be built in those seasons and a lot of growth can happen there. Yeah. That's a great reminder.

Yeah. So the real question at the end of the day, how do you balance the contentment and the drive? You talked about defining enough while also striving for the right goal. Yeah. What is the daily practice of that look like. Yeah, it's a good question. So I have a few things that I want to share, and I wrote them down so I don't forget any of them. But the first thing would be to try to build in regular rhythmic rest. And what I mean by that is it can look a variety of different ways. But, you know, I read a book. I don't know if you've read it. It's called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. Yes. Great book. But it talks about the importance of like a day of rest weekly. And so when we were in a really busy season, like I have to re-implement this now in a book launch

season. But when we were in a really busy season, because as entrepreneurs, you go through these seasons of hustle. Like, I'm anti-hustle culture on every level, but I also understand the reality of, like, I'm on a deadline, right? Or I'm in a crunch time. So there is a time where it's like, hey, you got a sprint. And in those times, trying to build in, whether it's an afternoon, maybe it's not a whole day for you, but ideally, like, a day on your weekend or an afternoon on your weekend where you're unplugged, you're not answering email, you're not scrolling social, you're not available to your team. And it's truly where you are doing things that fill your soul. Maybe you're reading a good book. maybe you're cooking a really great meal and you're enjoying it with your neighbors or your church

community or something like that or you're going for walks or you're playing with your kids in the backyard but you're doing things that are just like in your real life and there's no screens, there's no distraction, there's no entertainment other than the things in front of you and in your hands. And even if you set aside three hours on a Sunday to say this is my like rest time, it's a recharge. It's something you can work toward, you know, the end of the week and that you can work out of in the beginning of the weekend as you get back into the craziness. And so I'd say, try to build that into your schedule. Again, the amount of time that you're going to be able to give is going to vary person to person, but that's huge. The second thing I would say is try to set,

like I said, aligned goals. So I would go back and just try to look at all of your goals and consider what is aligned with where we're going and do I know where we're going and why. And then the third thing that I would say is to remember that you have time. And I think this is something we as entrepreneurs and leaders need to hear because, yes, there's truth in the fact that we're not guaranteed tomorrow. But I think the downside to getting so caught up in that mindset of like, you know, oh my gosh, well, I don't know how much time I'm guaranteed. It can lead to a lot of chronic hustle and hurry. Like this believing this lie that, well, by this year we have to do XYZ. And again, I would ask you why.

You know, because I have to ask myself that, like, well, why? And so just considering like, okay, if this is your revenue goal, if you didn't hit it this year, let's visit the worst case scenario, what would happen? and if it's like, well, it just wouldn't feel good. You know, it's like, okay. Your egos hurt. Yeah. So, but again, I just think I've had to hear multiple times from multiple friends and colleagues and stuff, just a reminder of like, hey, you have time.

Like, you have time to scale this thing. You have time to build it. Like, it's not all going to end tomorrow, most likely. And so trying to just kind of regulate the pace at which you're working and that you're working toward goals can really help you, like, take a deep breath and kind of stay in that healthy, balanced place of like, okay, I'd like to achieve it by the end of the but if we don't and we achieve it in February of next year or in June of next year, like, it's still going to be great.

And just keeping that like, I have time, I have time in anything in life, but especially when it comes to business and goals because we're constantly being told what we could be doing or what we should be doing or more of the options we could be pursuing. So I think those are the three key things is remember you have time. It's okay to grow slow. Slow and steady can win the race. You know, you don't have to shoot up overnight. Like what you were saying about Dave.

It was like 30 years overnight success, right? Like keep that in mind. So you have time. Try to keep those align goals. mind instead of setting arbitrary goals and really try to establish regular rhythmic rest so you don't get caught up in that cycle of chronic hustle. Man, some great reminders. Hard to do.

Yeah. But it's simple. Yeah. That's incredible. Simple but difficult is what I always say. Like those are the, I think those are the most life changing and business changing things are the simple steps that are actually difficult to take. They're not complicated things to do.

They're not like go build a funnel or, you know, go do something that like you have to go learn some big new skill. It's just this is a simple step, but it's difficult because it's against my nature. And it resists the like constant hustle and hurry. that I'm surrounded by and pressured by all the time. Yeah, that long-lasting success really does come from that patience, contentment, the rest, having that health in your own life. Yeah.

That will pay dividends in your business. 100%. That's awesome. Well, Jordan, I'm so excited about your new book. Thank you. Appreciate you coming by the Entree Leadership Studio. And thank you for your wisdom to our listeners today. Oh, absolutely.

Thanks for having me. Thanks so much, Jordan. Appreciate you coming by the Entree Leadership Studio. Be sure to check out her new book. Embrace Your Almost. You can pre-order with the link in the show. notes. Now, we talked about balancing contentment and drive as a leader, which is always a reflection of your daily habits. But how do you develop and maintain the types of habits that lead to

growth in your leadership? We'll have a conversation about that right after this. All right, coming up, I talk with Chris Campbell, senior vice president of Ramsey Plus coaching. His team leads the charge in training financial coaches across the country, as well as helping our fans get confidence and control of their money. We're going to talk about his habits and how they've helped him level up as a leader. He's also going to share some key questions you can use to help you grow in self-awareness and leadership.

Here's our conversation. Chris, welcome to the Entree Leadership podcast. First time on? Absolutely, George. This is a big deal. Well, man, I'm excited to be here. I'm grateful for the opportunity. Well, we've known each other for many years now,

and I've had the pleasure of watching you grow in your career to now being the senior vice president of Ramsey Plus coaching. So I want to talk about how you've leveled up. And I know you are a very principled man, a disciplined man. So talk to me about some of the habits that you think have contributed to that success and growth over the years. Yeah, you know, I think when you're in leadership, you have to take massive, like,

ownership and responsibility for what you're leading or what you're owning. If you're a salesperson, whatever that may be. You also need to take action. I see a lot of people who get into analysis paralysis. They're always planning. They're always getting ready to get ready. And, you know, for me, I just couldn't stomach that. I had to be moving.

I had to see something be shoved. Dave says things don't move unless they get shoved. And I thought, oh, I'm going to shove something. And so, you know, I think that when you're building habits and when you're trying to build yourself, I think it's going to be uncomfortable when you're doing that. And so those habits help you kind of navigate being uncomfortable and kind of saying, okay, why am I even doing this, you know? And so I think if you're trying to grow yourself from your current position, I started here as a sales guy.

There's another wrong with being a sales guy. I could have a sales guy the rest of my life. But, you know, I also had aspirations to grow. But I had to do well in what I was doing first. And I see so many people get so much pie in the sky, euphoric attitude. And it's like, man, be where you are. Do well there first. Yeah, we talk about KRAs a lot around here. And if you're not crushing it in your KRA, you're not going to get to that next level. And every time I've leveled up, because I've had, you know, 18,000 jobs here, it's always been because I was, I was doing really well at whatever was in front of me.

That's correct. But you're also doing a little bit more. You're always doing the next job a little bit, sometimes intentionally, sometimes accidentally. Yeah. Was that the case for you? Yeah, I mean, I did okay. You know, I did well. You know, I kind of looked at it like two different layers.

You know, your KRA is what kept you employed, and then there are things that get you promoted. And if you're not doing what keeps you employed well, first, you really have no business talking about, what do I need to do to get promoted? And I see that struggle, especially if folks like in a marketing role or something like that, sales role is like pretty cut and dry. You're making the numbers or you're not. But yes, to your point, I see also people that struggle where they are and they're like, man, I want to go to the next spot. And they're always dreaming about how they can do that in the eight hours they're supposed to be doing their KRA, rather than going, well, how do I stay late? How do I work through a lunch or how do I come in a little early? Not saying you blow up your whole life for that, but that may be what it takes if that's really what you want.

And so defining what you really want is really what matters in that moment and then what needs to be true for me to get there. In your time here, have you experienced people who just say, well, Chris, I want to be in leadership, man. I want to be in leadership. I want to be in that spot. Yeah. But you can, you sniff it out and go, what you really want is a title. That's right. Versus you really want to do the work. You really want to serve people in this capacity.

Have you found that to be true? And how do you deal with those situations? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, when people are saying, like, man, I want to be in leadership. you know, leadership is one of those things that should naturally flow out of you. I mean, are you getting water for your team? Like you see if someone on a long sales phone call, you grab them a glass of water? Or are you wanting to be in charge?

Do you need that ego stroked to have that title to where, you know, you can hear people. They'll lead out with their titles sometimes. You're like, oh, my gosh. Like, that means more to them than seeing their people win. And so your customer problems and the people on your team are more important than your promotion every single time. And you've got to lean into that. So what did it take for you to develop and maintain those healthy habits that enabled you to grow as a leader? Yeah, you know, coaching.

You know, I work with the coaching team here at Ramsey. And, you know, I love what Steve Chandler says. He says, a coach without a coach is like a doctor that won't go to a doctor. And if you're going to be leading, you need to be coach. We have so many blind spots in our life. I know I do. And I need to be able to ask people like, hey, help me see what I'm not seeing. because if you don't have someone speaking into your life and coaching you, leadership can be very

lonely and in isolation and there can even be fear that creeps up like imposter syndrome. And you start making really bad decisions because you don't have someone speaking into your life. And so I had to go get me a coach, George. I mean, that's what all leaders need. That's what all coaches need. That's what every single person needs. They need that person that can speak into their life. That's why I love the Entree Leadership Advisory Groups that we have, no matter how successful

you are, to be in that group with like-valued people, like-minded people, man, you just can't help but go, oh, man, how did you get through that? Because I'm experiencing the same thing, and I thought I was the only person. It's amazing what can happen when you surround yourself with people who are in the same space as you. I love that. So I want to talk about this idea of contentment versus drive. This is a tough thing to do as a leader because we're told to be real driven. We want to always grow, we want to see the results. We want to scale the thing. But then we're also told, well, you've got to be content. Do you find those things to be in opposition? What's the relationship between those? Yeah, you know, I think they both can be good. It's not an either or. I think it's an and, and you need a

balance in your life, period. We use a phrase in our coaching world called constructive discontent. It's the reason why we're sitting in air conditioning right now, because at some point some person was sitting out in the field in the elements and the freezing cold and said, what would it be like we're in a room with like warm air flowing in? And they started moving towards that. And that's why we have air conditioning. That's why we have, you know, house now, you know, because people were constructively discontent. The negative side about that is when you're just discontent. There's no amount of money, material, or trips that you can do to escape an unhappy life. And it really boils back down to your identity.

Like, who am I? A great book was written by Victor Frankel called A Man Search for Meaning. He says, if you understand your why, you can endure anyhow. And so contentment comes from your identity and knowing who I am, what am I about, what's my family about? and then that drives what I do and choose not to do. And that's where that constructive discontent comes in as well, because now you're going, yeah, I'm good, but what would it look like if we got better, you know?

And if your identity's wrapped up and it's only about results in the business, well, then as soon as you don't see that result, you're a failure and you spiral. You implode. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we call them mental hurdles in our coaching world. Yeah, you can get blocked.

And I work with people that are stuck all the time because they've had one pass failure or they're so far in the future planning, they're not just going, okay, what do I need to do today? You know, if you're building a house, you build it one level at a time. You handle that where you are right then. And again, some people get,

they're sulking in their past or they're planning for their future and they're always getting ready to get ready to get ready. And it's like, dude, move, you know, and build where you are right now. Yeah. I mean, that's how you kind of deal with that,

that discontent or that contentment and drive. You've got to do both. And the same thing applies for business and money. We want you to be content with what you have. Sure. But also strive for those financial goals. Yeah. And so there is a cool relationship between them.

I think complacency is where we go, all right, if you're okay with where you're at and it's not where you want to be, that's the problem. Yeah. Earl Nightingale talked about that a little bit. He said, you know, success is the progressive realization of a worthy goal. Meaning once you hit your goal, you need to find a new one. You're no longer successful by that definition. And so, yeah, I mean, that's why you've got to have something you're striving for, but you also don't want to just get so hung up on it that you just make bad decisions. I can't keep mentioning that enough.

Whenever someone gets so driven and discontent, they will make bad decisions. Then will impact their life and their family. Good reminder there. So I want to end with this. One habit. What is the one habit you think has helped to become a better leader year after year that our listeners could implement this week?

Yeah, by far I have not perfected this, but I'm working on it. I'm a work in progress just like you are. I mean, you're better off than I am, but here we are, right? It's your self-awareness. Your EQ has to match your IQ. And people either don't know how to ask for feedback or they're even worse. They don't want to ask for feedback. And so a habit of seeking that feedback, it's almost like I was talking about coaching.

You're constantly trying to figure out where am I missing it because it's not the things that you do know that will take you down. It's the things you don't know that are going to take you down. And so I love to ask my leaders, my peers, people that I lead these four questions, as often as I can in one-on-ones because I really want to know what am I missing. And I never send them in emails. They have to be face-to-face. And so can I share those four questions with you real quick? You okay with that?

With me right now? Let's do it. Okay. The first one that I always ask them, I said, hey, what do I do that you wish I wouldn't do? And if they placate me, I say, not good enough. Tell me again. The second one I ask is, what do I not do that you wish I would start doing? You know, say that to your peers, say that to your leader.

say that to someone that you're leading sometime. Also asking people, how can I help you hit your personal and professional goals? Because you want to know it's about other people when you're in leadership. It's not about you. And then the final one, and I love asking this to my leader and also to the people that I lead, if you were in my role, what would you do right now? Man, asking those four questions really opens up the conversation and you can really get defensive very quickly if they say the wrong thing.

but I encourage you, set on it for 24 to 48 hours and like process it. Let your defenses go down and then you'll find the gold in there. And so that self-awareness, that IQ matching the EQ and vice versa is really huge. And that's one way that you can implement, one thing you can implement this week to help yourself get better. That takes a level of health and maturity and humility and swallowing your pride that can be really hard for leaders out there. Absolutely. I've done it. But it's so important.

I mean, what you're saying is the habit is hold up the mirror every single day. Yes. And it's easy to do when you're trying to lose weight. You can get on a scale. But with self-awareness, you've got to be others aware and find out what they actually think and what the perception is and the reality is. Yes. And the investment of that time and asking those questions is worth its weight in gold and what you'll receive and return. And you'll see how you can grow right there.

Okay. Well, there's a lot of gold in this conversation, Chris. It's no wonder you've had so much success in your leadership. appear in the way that you've helped your own team, helped our fans out there, and I'm really proud to work with you. Happy to have you on the podcast. Thanks, George. Big thanks to Chris Campbell.

That guy is chock full of wisdom and quotes. As Jordan and Chris both mentioned, you've got to balance contentment and drive in addition to developing and maintaining the right habits. And all of that takes a lot of intentionality. So to help you kickstart those habits, our team has put together a free download called 10 days of intentionality. It'll give you simple actions that you can do. each day to help you be more effective and build healthy habits.

To get this free download, just use the link in the show notes. Hope you enjoyed today's episode of the show. If you did, leave us a review and subscribe so you don't miss the next one. And we want to hear what you think of the show, what you like, what you don't like, and what we could do better. Give us your feedback by using the link in the show notes to schedule a call with Tim, our producer. If you want to keep up with us on social media, you can follow us at Entree Leadership.

This episode was produced by Tim Hull, edited by Jake. comparison mixed and mastered by Will Rudder. I'm your host, George Camel, and on behalf of the entire Entree leadership team, thanks for listening. Until next time, keep learning and keep leading. If you enjoy this podcast, you should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network, like the Dr. John Deloney Show. Mental health challenges and hurting relationships happen to everyone, but they don't have to define you. I'm Dr. John Deloney and I help people navigate through the messy things in their lives on the Dr. John Deloney's show. I'll walk alongside you as you face parenting, marriage, and other relationship challenges,

and I'll walk alongside you as you try to connect with people as you face depression, overcome anxiety, and learn how to change your life. Listen, I want you to be well. Listen to the Dr. John Deloney show wherever you listen to podcasts.