EntreLeadership - How to Use Rejection to Fuel Success with Jamie Kern Lima

Episode Date: May 23, 2022

Join us as our host, George Kamel, talks to Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie is an entrepreneur, philanthropist, keynote speaker and co-founder of IT Cosmetics—a company she started in her living room and sold to L’Oréal for $1.2 billion. In this episode, we talk to her about the rejection she faced as she started IT Cosmetics and how she used that rejection as motivation to succeed. Later in the episode, George chats with Ken Coleman, a Ramsey Personality, bestselling author and the host of The Ken Coleman Show. Ken shares strategies you can use to keep moving forward despite the setbacks that will inevitably come your way.   You’ll learn: How Jamie went from a Denny’s waitress to the CEO of a billion-dollar company The most defining 10 minutes of Jamie Kern Lima’s life Why you should work for free How to turn rejection into redirection   Sign up for The EntreLeadership Podcast Takeaways—a weekly email where you’ll get three tangible takeaways and a tactical action step related to each episode: https://bit.ly/podcast-takeaways   Support our sponsors: BELAY: https://bit.ly/351P9AE Hite Digital: https://bit.ly/HiteDigital Kyro Digital: https://bit.ly/KyroDigital Trainual: https://bit.ly/TrainualEntre   Links mentioned in the episode: The EntreLeadership Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheEntreLeadershipPodcast Jamie Kern Lima’s website: https://bit.ly/3FGCmlw Believe IT by Jamie Kern Lima: https://amzn.to/3sxZdKC Ken Coleman’s website: https://bit.ly/3wsS9QG Get your Summit livestream ticket today: https://bit.ly/3szvzET   Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: EntreLeadership Summit: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipSummit EntreLeadership Master Series: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipMasterSeries   Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: Elite: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipElite Advisory Groups: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipAdvisoryGroups Executive Coaching: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipExecutiveCoaching Workshops: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipWorkshops   Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download the Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode, how to use rejection to fuel your journey to success. And then how to keep going and gain traction despite setbacks. From the Ramsey Network, I'm George Camel, and this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where we help business leaders like you grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. Today I'm talking with Jamie Kern-Lima, an entrepreneur, philanthropist, keynote speaker, and co-founder of It Cosmetics, a company that she started in her living room and sold to L'Oreal for $1.2 billion. I'm going to talk to her about the rejection that she faced as she started at cosmetics

and how she used that rejection to propel her towards success. So let's get to it. Here's my conversation with Jamie. Well, Jamie, it is so great to have you on the podcast. How you been? George, so great. I'm so honored and also fired up to be here. So thank you.

Thank you for having me. Well, this is a precursor to having you at our Entree Leadership Summit event, and I'm so excited for our leaders to get to hear from you, hear some of your story, which we're going to get into today. We're going to scratch the surface of Jamie Kernlima. Is that okay? Sounds good. All right.

So in 2019, you stepped down as CEO of It Cosmetics, and you sold it famously to L'Orielle for $1.2 billion back in 2016. But your story, it doesn't start there. It started way back. Take us back to when you were bagging groceries and waiting tables at Denny. In the middle of this entrepreneur of your journey, you face what you call some crazy, painful rejection along the way. Tell us what that was like. Yeah, I'm so glad you asked that.

Thank you. Because a lot of people just see the end result. They're like, oh, Denny's waitress builds a billion-dollar company. And it seems like, oh, did she get lucky or something like that? And, you know, the real journey, the real story behind the story is years and years and years of, you know, not just 100-hour weeks, but hundreds of rejections. and rejection after rejection after rejection. And many, many years where I literally, George, I didn't know are we going to go bankrupt at any moment?

And are we going to make it? And, you know, when I look back at the journey, I had this sort of big dream. It started with a problem of my own. I was trying to solve, which was I have a skin condition called rosacea. Couldn't find anything else out there to work that would work for me. And I didn't know anything about this industry. that I was about to enter.

I didn't have any connections in the beauty world and I didn't have any money. But God put this dream on my heart and I couldn't shake it. And I was working as a news anchor and I just kept getting this feeling. You know, that's still a small voice, right? That we all get.

And I just felt like, oh gosh, I've got to listen to this. And I felt it in my soul. But my head talked me out of it for a long time where I was like, oh, but you're not qualified. You know, you don't. What if you, you know, lose every day? penny you have, like all those things. But I eventually just decided to trust it. And on my honeymoon flight to South Africa, wrote the business plan with my husband, came back. We both quit our jobs and

sort of dove all in. And from the moment we launched this little business with this big dream and in our living room, we poured every penny we had into the product. And I just thought, George, I thought like, okay, if we make a product that actually works, it's just going to sell. Like, if it's that good, it's just going to sell. And maybe other entrepreneurs listening can relate to this, but I did not know what I did not know. And from that day forward, it would be over three years before we could afford to pay ourselves at all. And all of these sort of retailers, I put up on pedestals that I used to spend my Denny's tip money, you know, shopping in their stores, the big beauty stores, the big department stores, when I'd send them the product, every single one of them

said no. And it was hundreds of noes. And I had a dream. of going on QVC, and they said no for years. And I had one potential investor that I thought was going to actually save our company. And he said no. And this was years in because he didn't think that women would buy makeup from someone, what he said, someone who looked like me with my body and weight. So it was no-s for so many reasons. But in that journey, I just kept having this feeling that I couldn't shake. And I think what happens, George, is so many people, we have. no proof as entrepreneurs. We often go through these seasons where we have no proof around us that we're right or that there's a demand for our product or that our idea is like and our

gut feeling is right when everything's going wrong and we give up and we quit. And sometimes it's after like one no or 10 knows or 20 knows and building this company and we built to over a thousand employees and eventually the largest luxury makeup company in the country. But But in the journey, I did a lot of things wrong. And when I look back, one of the things I did right was every time I got another no and another rejection and another sort of blow and another, you don't have what it takes or you're not the right fit, they were painful. And there was times I cried myself to sleep.

And my family would be like, you haven't, so you haven't paid yourself in three years? Like, nothing? Like, did you really quit your job to do this? Like, you have everyone else's doubt getting so. loud, but when I pray about it and get still, I just had this knowing, this feeling I was supposed to keep going. And I think listening to that still small voice, which we all have the ability to access, I think when we do that, it can not just change our business and our journey as entrepreneurs, but it can change our entire life. So our real story is a story about overcoming

rejection and listening to that, that knowing over all the knows happening all around me. Wow, it's an incredible story. And you unpack it in your book, Believe It, how to go from underestimated to unstoppable. And that's exactly what you've done. And it's such an incredible story because it's all of us as entrepreneurs out there where you go, I'm just crazy enough to think this will work. And ignorance is bliss because I don't know what I don't know. And therefore, I'm willing to charge hell with a water pistol to make this happen. Would you credit that still small voice for carrying you through those really hard moments? because most entrepreneurs, if they do it for the wrong reasons, they give up.

Right? When the money's not coming in and it's not a lightning and a bottle thing. But when you do it for the right reasons because this is your calling, it changes everything, it seems. Yes. And I think it's so key that you really tune into your calling and that you really peel back the layers on it, make sure you're going deep enough to, you know, we hear so many people talk about your why. But I think so many entrepreneurs, like I've now had the blessing of meeting tens of thousands of them. I mean, just in the QVC green room alone, I did over a thousand live shows myself.

And you see, you meet so many brand founders coming in and taking their shot on air in every different industry. And, you know, very few make it. Very, very few make it. And I think that one of the things I see happen a lot is people kind of have their Y identified. And it sounds good to other people, so they stop there. But they actually never go deep enough to make it so personal to them and to make it so much bigger than themselves, but it becomes like a tool in your resiliency toolbox. So the times it is

tough, you can lean on them, right? So for me, yes, definitely that's still small voice and I would get still in prey and I would trust that. And that's probably the biggest tool in my toolbox. But another one is just that. It's, you know, really identifying your why. And we hear that a lot and people do it wrong. And what I mean by that is here's an example is I had the skin condition. So I could have said, well, my why is to just create products that help people like me and people that have given up on makeup or whatever it might be. And if I shared that why with someone else, I just want to help so many people, it would sound really good. And I would get congratulated for it. Like, oh, that's great. But one of the things I did early on, and this was out of sheer grace, I didn't even know the power of

this yet. But I identified something so deep. What I realized, I couldn't find any products that worked for me. I realized also George, like my whole life, even as a little girl, I would see these beauty ads on television and in magazines, and I love them, and I aspire to look like them. But they always kind of made me feel like I wasn't enough. And I realized when I'm sitting there anchoring the news with the skin condition, and I can't find anything that works for me. And I'm like, I don't understand. There's hundreds, thousands of companies. Why does nothing work for me? Then I realize I've never seen a model with bright red rosacea on her face saying, try this makeup. And what I realized was like, wow, in this moment, I realized this calling that was so deep, a why that was so deep, I realized I don't just want to launch a product and one that works that's really good that helps people.

Like, what if? And this was a God-size dream for someone sitting there with no money and no worldly qualifications. But I sat there and had this God-size dream moment where I was like, what if, yeah, I'll launch these products. but what if I can actually put real people as models, like all ages, shape, sizes, skin tones, skin challenges, and what if I can call them beautiful as models and mean it? And what if I can shift actual culture in the beauty industry in terms of the definition of beauty for every little go out there

who's about to start doubting herself and every grown woman who still does? So it was like this deep, painful why that felt personal to me, but it felt bigger than myself. And what happened, George, and this is so important because so many entrepreneurs, they stop at the why that everyone claps for. But what I realized was this was so meaningful to me that on those, you know, days and weeks and months and years where it was constant rejection and I didn't know how we were going to make

it, like I knew that why was so much bigger than the rejection I just got. And what happened is as we built the team, And we brought on eventually over 1,000 employees, that Y was so personal to them as well, in their own way. So we assembled this team of people that believed in something so much greater than themselves. And it helped us with employee retention. It helped us with hiring because we had people leave much larger companies and take actual lower salaries because they weren't fulfilled where they were and they didn't feel like what they were doing mattered. And they would hop on board with us because they believed in the vision. And the vision was authentic.

And so it helped with all of that. And I feel like as entrepreneurs, that is one thing that's overlooked often. And it's free. Because like in the beginning, a lot of us don't have money to hire anyone anyway. And then it's hard making payroll as we're scaling. And I feel like this is one tool that not only personally as an entrepreneur is so important to have in your toolbox, but also as you're building and scaling a team. You know, you can read business books all day long.

And often they don't teach you. you how to do this part and it's free and it's so powerful because at the end of the day I could not have built, sold and we were acquired by L'Oreal for $1.2 billion cash. And then in the first two years post-acquisition, we doubled the size of the business. And I credit that to my team. They're amazing, not just because they're really smart, which they are, but their why was deep. Like they were on a mission that they believed in so powerfully. And that part is free and that part is beautiful. And that part is so, so important when it comes to, you know, every entrepreneur, even if their team is just one, just them right now. It's so important. Powerful reminder about how vision is the engine for

your business and having that clear mission that is more than just about solving my new problem. But you wanted to change an entire industry and you absolutely did that. And, you know, like you mentioned there was a lot of rejection along the way. What was the point where you realized, oh, I see some light at the end of the tunnel. This is actually working. You know, we talk about death by a thousand cuts here. Ramsey. Dave says, I thought if I could just make it to Oprah or 60 minutes, that was going to be the thing. And there wasn't a singular thing. But if you could say, hey, this was my turning point where I realized this could work. Yeah. Well, there was a big moment where I learned one of the most powerful lessons as it pertains to authenticity. And it was also the

same moment where I realized, oh my gosh, the momentum. The momentum is shifting and maybe just maybe that still small voice is right. Like I keep listening to it and I keep getting no proof around me and it's years and, you know, and so it was this moment where after three years of hearing no, we got one shot on QVC, which is that, you know, QVC is a live television channel in the U.S. They're broadcast to 100 million homes. And I found out, George, that we got one shot and this 10-minute window to either hit their sales goal or not come back. Now, at the time, we were selling two to three orders a day out of our website, which out of our office, which was our living room, packing boxes, driving to the post office,

getting them out every day, and just trying to stay alive. And this was a couple of years in, and I learned we would have to, to hit the QVC sales goal, we would have to sell over 6,000 units of our product in a 10-minute window, which, which was a few hundred thousand dollars of product. And I also learned it was the offer was consignment. So your whole team and everything that Ramsey stands for would say, do not take this because it's, and by the way, no entrepreneur should take a purchase order they can't afford to lose.

And at this point, it was consignment, a consignment offer, which meant we had to somehow pay for, manufacture, ship in over 6,000 units of product. And then we weren't paid for it unless, We were just going to be paid for whatever sold in that 10-minute window. And whatever didn't sell, we'd have to take back. And so normally you should never do this. And at this point, we were sort of like, do that or go out of business. Because we had no money left.

And we applied for SBA loans and the 23rd bank said yes, which was in California, California Bank and Trust. And they gave us a SBA loan to cover just the amount of inventory for this one shot on QBC. So everything was on the line. we hired third-party consultants that are awesome and they help a lot of people. They teach you how to sell your products in stores or how to present and produce your 10-minute spot on air. And here's the problem is every single one of them and they're awesome and they wanted me to win. But they told me the same thing. They said if you want a shot at actually hitting these numbers, which is so hard to do.

Very few people do it on KVC. If you want a shot, here's what you need to do. You need to use this type of model to show your product, which was women with perfect skin, no one that looked like me with bright red rosation. And I said to them, okay, I get that's how it's always been done. But that's not authentic. To me, my authentic why, you know, I want to take my makeup off a national television, show my bright red rosation and like prove, like prove the product works.

And I would tell them, what if I put, you know, women in their 70s and 80s and. and models of all ages and skin tones and maybe some who have acne and all the things. And they were mortified at this idea. And so they were like, listen, we're giving you the best advice that we have. And here's what you need to do. So I flew out to KVC a week early and I sat in this parking lot, like staring at their front door in my car, in a rental car, an economy rental car, which I could barely afford. And I sat there praying and crying for a week. because I knew in my gut what the right thing to do was.

But then I was like, but I don't want to go bankrupt. And I kept having self-doubt and thoughts like, well, what if I try it their way and then make some money? And then I try it my way. I had all these thoughts. And I had this moment in the car, in that rental car. And I knew this lesson. I knew this lesson. And I made the decision to live it out.

But this idea that like while authenticity alone doesn't automatically guarantee success in authenticity guarantees failure. I knew that and I'd seen it play out in company after company after company when they start getting distracted from their true authentic mission and who their customers truly are. So I sat there kind of like knowing that. I imagined who our customers were. I imagined a single woman in Nebraska for whatever reason, like folding laundry and was way too busy to remember she mattered and that she was beautiful.

And I just, I had this moment in the car where I realized like if she turns on her television, sees me on there, blesses me with five seconds of her time. Like, I'd rather have her see me showing women that look like her and calling them beautiful and meaning it. Even if she buys nothing, I'd rather do that than, like, sell a whole bunch of product and stand for nothing. And so I went in there live for the show. The 10-minute clock was on the floor.

You know how studios are set up, right? There was the cameras. There was this 10-minute clock. And I then learned, George, that I'm not even guaranteed the 10 minutes. that if I'm like a minute or two into the live presentation selling and I'm not hitting numbers, you get your time cut. It'll go from like you think you have eight minutes left, boom, you have one minute left. No pressure.

Oh, no. Because you can do the math in your head of how much money you just lost. And anyhow, we went live and the clock started. And I was freaking out, to be honest, and shaking like a leaf and all the things. Not because I was worried about TV. I felt like the weight of the whole business was in that moment. And I remember the moment my bright red bare face, rosacea came up on national television. And I went over to models, all ages and shapes and sizes and skin tones and skin challenges.

And we had about a minute left in the presentation. And I knew, I didn't know like the numbers, but I knew I wasn't cut yet. So I thought that was good. And then we had about a minute or actually a couple of seconds left when they said, the host says the deep shades almost gone. The tan shades almost sold out. Oh, wow. And then it was, yeah, it was right at the 10 minute. mark this giant sold-out sign that I had prayed about, like envisioned, this giant sold-out sign

came up across the screen. I started crying, national television, and my husband, they cut from me and went to Dyson vacuum or something like that, and my husband came rushing through the double doors. And I was, like, crying, and I'm like, real women have spoken. And he's like, we're not going bankrupt. And that one airing turned into five that year, 1001 the next year, and then eventually 250 live shows a year on QVC. So we built the biggest beauty brand in QVC's history.

And it is actually right now at this moment. And I share that because, and I think this is so important for anyone in a season of setback that feels like setback or like things aren't going their way in their business. But it was three years of QVC not only saying no, but like you're not the right fit for us or our customers. And sometimes we hear those rejections or those painful nose or we put a big launch out in the world and five people buy it. And we think, oh, but I wanted 100 people to. buy it and maybe I don't have what it takes. And I just think, you know, the whole journey of getting still and hearing that still small voice and trusting it and really looking and changing

your relationship with rejection. Like I am not afraid of rejection at all. And I'm, I've built a resiliency toward rejection that has changed my entire life. And I think that that's really important when rejection happens to me, like even to the stage towards even, it happens to all the time, right? It could be in the form of like, oh, you're not invited to coffee with that group of friends or, oh, rejection comes in so many forms. And I really, you know, I pray about it and I look at rejection as God's protection. And, you know, there's so many ways it has been the investor I mentioned to you who said women won't buy makeup from someone. It looks like you with your body and your weight, who I thought was going to be my, you know, saving grace at the time. Six years later when we sold to L'Oreal,

I heard from him for the first time in six years. And he said, congratulations, I was wrong. And I learned it would have been the most successful investment in his firm's history. But also, what's crazy is I was so desperate at the time when I wanted him to invest. I probably would have given away so much of the company for nothing. And because he didn't believe in me then, you know, six years later when we sold to L'Oreal, and we were still the largest shareholders of the whole company. So I was like, rejection is God's protection.

Like sometimes it doesn't make sense at the time and we think it's unfair and it's hurtful. But I feel like when we keep that perspective, it gives us a resiliency as well that becomes another tool in our toolbox to keep going and actually compete with the potential of who we're called to be. And I think that is so important. Wow. There was about 77 leadership lessons packed in this short interview. I'm grateful that you listen to that still small voice that you were.

resilient that you or your authentic self. There's so much leaders and entrepreneurs listening can take away from this. And again, we're just scratching the surface. I want everyone to go check out your book. Believe it, how to go from underestimated to unstoppable. You can also follow Jamie at Jamie Kernlema on Instagram. You go to jamie kernlema.com. Jamie, we are so honored that you took the time to be with us today and so excited to have you at Entree Leadership Summit. Yes, thank you so much for having me. I am fired up. George, we were just scratching the surface. The Summit is going to be incredible. I can't wait to serve alongside you and everyone who's going to be there as part of your team and also in the audience. It's such an honor. So I can't wait and I will

see you there soon. Thanks so much, Jamie. Big thanks to Jamie for coming on the podcast. Love her story. Can't wait to hear more from her at Entree Leadership Summit. Reminder, if you want to get her book, Believe It, How to Go From Underestimated to Unstoppable. Just use the link in the show notes. All right, coming up. We're talking about how to turn rejection into redirection, so that you can press on despite the roadblocks that come your way. We'll have a conversation about that right after this. All right, we're back and I'm about to talk with Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, best-selling author, and host of the Ken Coleman Show,

and Fun Facts, former host of this podcast. We're going to talk about his story of facing frequent rejection early on in his career. He's also going to share some strategies to keep moving despite the setbacks that will inevitably come your way. Here's our conversation. Ken, welcome back to the podcast. George, good to be with you, man. You're a fan favorite. Is that right?

Apparently. I think you made that up. Well, you're a former host, so I imagine there's a lot of fans out there. Well, we hope so. From the Ken Coleman days. We hope so. Well, we're talking today about how to keep going and gain traction despite rejection. Yeah.

And as a leader, as a business owner, this is just part of the game. It's what you signed up for. And I love your story, because I've known you now for a decade, and I've got to see you grow in your career from before you were even at Ramsey. And so I want to dig into some of the early. early days in your career as you face some of this rejection. Are there some of those moments that still stick with you where you go, I could take myself back there right now? Oh, yeah. I think while you were setting it up, I was having searing pain kind of well up inside my chest. No, I think it's great.

You know, it was very traumatic for me. I had been volunteering three days a week, three hours in each of those days at a local sports radio station in Atlanta. So these are the early days. And I had had a breakthrough moment that I've since spoken about and I write about this idea that nobody's sitting around thinking about how they can help you. So I stopped kind of just passive going after it. And I said, all right, I'm just going to go do something. And this idea of working for free to get in and to get some experience and make connections, you know, duh, but I don't know why it took me so long, but I did it. And so I'd gotten into a local radio station. And so I started out just screening calls for a very popular midday show and I would do some

YouTube research for clips and I'd come up with articles and I was supporting the host and so developed a relationship with them and then they kind of asked questions like dude what's the deal like how are you working for free and I'm a small business owner I'm late to the game I really want to get into broadcasting and I'm just here to serve and they're like

oh okay so they'd ask more than they realized I had spoken before and I had done some leadership stuff so anyway they started going what do you want to do some remotes for us and so I drove up to Nashville and did live call-in remotes from the SEC basketball tournament, and they put me on the air. And this was exactly why I did it. And in the shadows of this triumphant moment, right? I'm driving back from Nashville and come back in the office that next day. And the program director had found out that I was on the air. And he was like, that's against

company policy. He's not a full-time employee. No one. And he's all over the hosts. And they're like, man, relax. Ken's like, good. If he did a good job. And he's like, absolutely not, no way. So he asked for a quick meeting with me and the producer and calls me in. And basically, just is like, dude, I don't know why you're here. You're never going to be on the air here. You don't have the talent to make it in a top 10 market. We're a number eight market. And I'm cutting through all of the, you know, and it was just out of nowhere.

I'd never done anything wrong. I hadn't asked for any money. And I got to tell you, it devastated me. That was a real serious rejection. I remember going home that day and doing what I do when I need therapy, and I went out and did some yard work, and I was cutting the lawn. And I was devastated. I was like, why am I doing this?

This dude just told me that I don't have what it takes. to make it. And I believe that lie for two or three days before I got over it and said, all right, it's time to keep on moving. Wow. And a lot of people out there, they believe those lies for two or three years, two or three decades. Twenty, 30 years. And so luckily, you believed in what you were doing so much. You were like, I know I'm supposed to be broadcasting. I know I'm supposed to be helping people on air. And I'm glad that you answered the call and you kept on because here you are today with a, you know, syndicated radio show, Sirius XM, you name it, with the Ken Coleman show.

And, you know, you had this post on Instagram, and I want to mention some of the other pieces of this because we don't have all the time to get into every story. We could sit here all day. Twelve publishers passed on your first book proposal. Yep. A TV exec told you you were too old to try to get into media. Oh, yeah.

Like you mentioned, five radio stations ignored your offer to pay for a one-hour slot on the weekend. Oh, yeah. And you're willing to do whatever it took, despite all that rejection because you wanted it that badly. Yeah, and I think that's really the key. you know because that that statement that day and I'm cutting the grass you know two to three days later I did get back in the game but I will tell you that my belief was affected you know let's just say

that I had 100% belief before that it knocked it down to 80% or 75% and so what you just mentioned is really key I wanted it so I did it hurt me I mean I begin to have some serious doubts but the the desire let's use another D word here the desire outweigh the doubt oh that's good Have you tweeted that? No. Save that one. Okay, go back and watch. That's a good one.

Hey, that's real time there. That's good. So let's talk about some strategies that our leaders can use as they face their own setbacks, their own rejections, their own, you know, moments of doubt. How did you get through those? And how do you still get through them today? Yeah. So I'll give you one strategy because I think it speaks to the mental and the emotional.

Because when you hear the word no, okay, rejection, it is a mental and emotional. emotional assault, kind of like the perfect storm coming at you both ways, right? It hurts our feelings as the emotion. And then out of that emotion, we begin to think things, right? Like, oh, are they right? Am I delusional? And so fear and doubt kind of creep up and they kind of hang out in our mind. So what I learned was is that we as human beings tend to take a word like no, a rejection, and we make it so final forever, as if there is a period at the end of the sentence and that period is not just on that situation or that opportunity,

but it becomes a period for our life. That's how traumatic the word no can be. So there's a little thought here. Let's turn no's into not yet or not here. Because I think really that's what a no is. It is not here, not now. And so when we begin to think through no's as not here's and not now, here's what happens. We turn rejection into redirection.

See, no is final, forever done. Not here, not now is okay. Then if not here, where? Watch. It's almost an emotional and then a physical attachment. And then if it's not now, I go, okay, what else do I need to do? So if it's not here, where, and if it's not now, why? And so that leads me into redirection.

I'm redirecting my eyes and then my emotions kind of kind of catch up with that when we begin to say, okay, it's not final. It's just not here, not now. That's powerful. And it makes you answer some next questions of like, okay, so where do we go from here? That's right. And you inspired a quotable. Can I give it to you? Okay, go.

Rejection is a comma, not a coma. Ooh. See, it's a little cheesy, but I love. like it. Okay. Because what you're speaking to is it's a comma, there's a pause, right? It's not the end of the sentence. And so we're not dead. It's not over. It's not, okay, we're all, you know, praying beside the bed. I hope they revive. You know, you're not dead. It's not final. Yeah. And I think that's important. So you realize that, okay, I'm being redirected. And so which way do I go? You know, there's a famous book by Spencer Johnson called Who Move My Cheese

and it's talking about change. And I think it plays into this. And I love that he uses the who move my cheese. And he talks about the mouse. And we've all, at least in our minds heard or created an image of a mouse for an experiment walking through a maze trying to find the cheese. Well, I'll tell you something, that little mouse hits some nose, right? But instinctively is like, well, I know that cheese is at the end of this thing somewhere and they run into a wall. What does the mouse do? They either go left, right, or they retreat. And so that's the idea here. So you kind of know, all right, we hit one wall. Now we're at one step closer. That's right. Because we know that's not it. So we've got to keep moving. And this speaks to your book,

the proximity principle, which is something that you lived out, I lived out, and you started to get closer to that thing, and it ended up getting you to where you wanted to go. It may have taken longer than you wanted to, but a lot of business owners and leaders are out there, and they're facing all types of rejection and setbacks. And I mean, with the pandemic, there are all kinds of reasons why they could call it quits. They could give up or go, you know what, I'm a failure as a leader. Right. So as we wrap here, how can they stay focused, how do they gain that traction when they keep hitting those challenges and those roadblood? blocks, they didn't get the client they wanted, they didn't hit the revenue metrics they needed

to hit. They didn't get the hires. How do they power through that? All right. So let's go back to that little lesson we just gave, okay, because this now helps us refocus. When we turn rejection into redirection, what we are doing is is we are in a posture of learning? So we want to learn. What can we learn from that? Why did I get a know? Was it something I did or is it a preference over here? Whether it be a customer, a new idea, a new product, in the audience, if you will, the customer base, the world said no. So instead of feeling like, oh, we've got to go, okay, what do I learn here? And so what I do is, is I refocus on the desire, okay, and I go, okay, what did I want from this? Where did I want to go? And I'm learning what I can learn, and now I'm resetting.

And I think what we have to also embrace is, is not just the learning, but also understand that we're actually making progress. There's an old metaphor that's out on the Internet, and it's beautiful. And it's about an old man who's walking down a country road one day, just strolling by himself. And there's a fence running along the dirt road that he's on. And out of this peripheral vision, he sees a little bit of movement. And he walks closer, and there's a vine that is attached to that fence pose. And he sees a cocoon that's wobbling. And he looks closer, and he sees the little butterfly who's trying to finish metamorphosis

and go from caterpillar to butterfly. And he sees the legs poking out, and they're moving. And then they stop. And he gets concerned. Then they start to go again, and then they stop. This time they don't move, and he goes, oh, my goodness, I've got to rescue this butterfly from the struggle. So he pulls out a pocket knife and he gently opens the cocoon. And the butterfly, now that the cocoon is open, flops up and he immediately falls down to the ground and dies within seconds later.

And so in his desire to relieve the butterfly from the struggle, he robbed it of the strength that needed to actually be what it was created to be. And so the thought process here is I'm going to learn from the rejection, but more importantly, I'm going to embrace it and realize that the mental and the emotional junk that comes with hearing no is actually preparing me. It is the process that prepares me to meet my full potential. Just like the butterfly, that butterfly needed to struggle. It needed to break out on its own because the struggle gives us the strength to move forward. So embrace those moments. And I think back to the story I told, you know, I'm looking back on that. really hurt, and it really made me question myself, but in the questioning, I got enough belief

to keep staying with it. And so that's the game. Embrace the struggle, embrace the nose. Strength comes from the struggle. Yeah, nose are going to lead to yeses anyway. So if we stay in the game, we'll look back on the nose and go, who cares? It led me to the yes. Strength comes from the struggle. I love that. What a perfect way to end, Ken. Thank you so much for being on here, encouraging our leaders out there, our business owners who are in this fight, in the trenches, every single day doing the hard work. Thanks, bro. To our leaders out there.

We love you. We need you. Press on. Thanks so much, Ken. Always a great conversation and love the encouragement for our leaders. All right. The Entree Leadership Summit live stream starts today. But guess what?

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