EntreLeadership - I’m Scared This Technology Will End My Business

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

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From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Entree Leadership podcast where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside people just like you. If you want to submit a question, go to Entryleadership.com slash ask or leave us a voicemail at 844-944-1070. and we'll, of course, set you up to be a caller here on the air, and we'll just talk about business right in front of you, your business. I love it. Joshua is starting us off today in San Antonio. Joshua, welcome to the Entree podcast.

What's up? Hello, Dave. Thank you for taking my phone call. Sure. What's up? I have a auto-collision shop here in San Antonio, Texas, and we gross $2 million a month annually. I'm sorry, $2 million a year annually.

We have 17 members. And we have great margins. We're doing very well currently, but my worry is if I should continue to invest in my industry and move forward, you know, cars are advancing so rapidly. They're self-evoiding. Cars just aren't crashing as much as they used to.

Insurance claim rates are decreasing. And in five years, I don't know where we will be. And it really worries me. I don't know if I should continue to invest and grow my business. Interesting. I never thought of that. Okay.

Well, here's the thing. When I'm looking at something like that, what happens to me is I can extrapolate into the future with a drama queen in my head and turn something into a catastrophe that's not really going to be that. So what I've learned to do to avoid the drama queen thing in my life, and I don't know if you do that or not, but I have to do what Dr. John Deloney talks about.

He says, facts are your friends. So the facts are that car collision avoidance is very real. That's a fact. Okay. So what you said there, there's no question about that. The question is, what are the facts on how it's impacted your business? so far. Okay. How long have you been in business? Since 2020. Okay. So we can go back five years and trendline this plus or minus the COVID effect in the first year, who the crap knows what that was.

But down into, once we got back to a sense of normalcy, then, you know, 21, 22, 23, 24, have we seen a steady increase in the collision avoidance technology causing your business to go down? So has your business actually, have you actually lost business yet? Dave, it's quite phenomenal. 21, 22, and 20, the beginning of 23, auto collision was booming. It was fantastic. We were having record-breaking months. Everyone was busy, everyone was happy.

And then at the end of 2024, come around, around the April, it just tanked. We were doing roughly $200,000 a month in sales, and then just about $120, $130. I mean, and it's not just, it wasn't just my shop. It's all my call, all of San Antonio took a dive. I'm in a lot of groups nationally, like on the Facebook page with other body shop owners, and I attend a lot of meetings nationally with other body shop owners, and it's everywhere. It's just, I mean, our volume has dropped. It's not logical that that is collision avoidance, that that happens in a one month period of time.

It goes to 50%, or you lose 40% of your business, and one month suddenly, something activated on all of America's cars. I mean, I can see this trending over a four or a five-year period of time, but not a five-day period of time. I'm not buying that. Something else is happening in the marketplace. Yes, sir. So a lot of my colleagues are saying it's collision avoidance

or other known as ADAS systems. But some people are saying it is the election year. It's this and it's that. But for the better part of nine months, I mean, there's shops closing left and the right. I mean, we're thankful that we don't have much debt. I've been listening to you for years. And I really think that you have saved me from getting out of debt. And that's why I'm able to stay in business.

However a lot of my... But let's talk about a second, okay? if you're it cannot be again mathematically in that short a period of time there's not uh 40% of the automobiles on the road did not suddenly in a four-month period of time get collision avoidance that didn't have it before so i mean this is a technology on newer vehicles and as the older vehicles age out and the new ones uh with this technology on it come in it should should have a negative impact. Now, that makes sense gradually. An example in my world or in another world that also relates is, what if you were selling cassette tapes and everybody started buying DVDs?

Well, you still have some old cars that had cassette tapes in them for a while. It wouldn't be like in one month, all of America did the conversion from cassette tapes to DVDs. But over a period of two or three years, cassette tapes went out and DVDs went out in. into cars, okay, and in general went away, right? So it's a technology that replaced, and you could go yet again and say AM radio. The new vehicles, a lot of them don't have AM radio in them because everybody's using Apple CarPlay or whatever

or some kind of a Wi-Fi or a Bluetooth connection for your entertainment in my world, in the broadcast world, right? You don't put Spotify on instead of necessarily listening to an AM radio station, and that's causing an effect and so if you were in that world, the effect of that, but it's not instantaneous. There's still a lot of cars that are 15 years old, 10 years old, eight years old that have an AM radio in them,

but a brand new one, you probably don't have anything in it to amount to anything. You certainly don't have a DVD player hardly anymore or a CD player. So anyway, that's an example. It should be a gradual, you know, at the most over a two or a three year period of time, not over a two or three month period of time. So something else is affecting your market. other than this, and the drama queens are blaming it on this. Now, long-term, you know, a two or three-year period of time,

you may see some trends that you can blame on this and say, all right, I've got to figure out how to work on those systems because they're going to be coming in and nobody else is going to be left to work on those systems, the collision avoidance systems, and you're going to have to get the technology in your shop to repair those things when they come in, because they are still going to get hit, regardless of what,

there's not going to be a bubble on these cars, period. I mean, is it going to reduce accidents? Well, that would be wonderful for humanity and horrible for your business. But so anyway, I think there's something else going on. And I think you're seeing some normal economic shifts. Some of it might be due to an election. Some of it might be due to some of the policies coming out of D.C. or something like that.

People might be sitting and waiting. There may be different ways the insurance companies are addressing these things. That could be in the marketplace. But it cannot be blamed. because of the sudden drop off on only this technology. And so I'm not going to let this technology drive me out of the business yet. But I am going to watch it and say, what have I got to diversify into over a five-year, a 10-year horizon?

Because this is on the way. It is going to have an impact long-term. Cassettes are going out of business long-term. But in the near term, I can still sell cassettes. And that's what I'm looking at. This is the Entree podcast. Hey, business owners. There's only seven days left to pre-order the new book, Build a Business You Love, mastering the five stages of business.

When you pre-order the book from Ramsey store today, you're going to get more than $350 in bonuses for free, including an enhanced audio book experience and a copy of Build a Business You Love e-book. These bonuses will be delivered directly to your email on April 15th when the book goes on sale to the public. and when we ship you yours. Plus, with your pre-order, you're also going to get instant access to our complete hiring playbook so you can start transforming your business right now. Build a business you love is the essential guide for business owners like you who want to go from burnout to breakthrough so you can love your business again.

Don't miss out on these pre-order bonuses. Reserve the book from the Ramsey store before April 15th. at entreel leadership.com slash pre-order. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is the Entree Leadership podcast. Thanks for hanging out with us. Josiah is with us in Salem, Oregon. Hey, Josiah, what's up?

Hey, Dave. We run a small stair shop or family owned. We do about $1.8 million in revenue. We've got 17 full-time employees. And my question is, I might get a little emotional here. We lost my dad, who was our founder and our CEO in October. I'm sorry. How old was he?

Yeah. Yeah. He was 62. Wow. Young. What happened? Car accident, just out of the blue. Man.

So we had been... How old are you, Josiah? I'm 39. Okay. Wow. And you've worked that you've worked in. that business for how long? Like, as my career since about 2010, but I've been sweeping the floor since I was a kid. You know, this was my summer job, home from college, that sort of thing.

So you've been there your whole working life in this? Yeah. And what kind of business did you say it is again? So we do custom stairs and railings, so mostly high-end residential subcontractor. Oh, wow. Okay. A little bit of commercial here and there, but primarily, you know, $2 million. up. So a lot of ornamental type stuff then? Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I got just an incredible team of woodworkers and metal workers and designers and my production

managers is awesome. So my dad is the one who built this team and now I'm, you know, trying to fill in his shoes. We were in a transition path, but it just all accelerated way faster. What position were you in in October at this business? I was officially. like our operations manager, but I think functionally I was more of our lead sales person and estimator. And now I'm, you know, president of everything. Yeah, was your mom on site working before or now? Yes. Her role has been just our bookkeeper and does our payroll. And that's

continued to be her role. Okay. And she's in her early 60s, I assume. Yeah. Okay. And the transition plan that you all had in place was what? So we started transferring ownership to me in like 5% increments every year. I don't know the ins and outs of why that was, you know, the accountant's recommendation. But actually after listening to you and kind of hearing better, best practices for how to do these kinds of transitions, we had backed off and we were going to at some point in the next few years figure out a purchase price based on, you know, X amount of years of profit and kind of write up the buy-sell agreement. But all of that has come way more into the foreground than

before. So how much, what percentage do you already own? 10%. Okay. So it's only been two times it happened. Okay. Yes. Yeah. All right. So basically the business is still sitting there's. in her name now. Yes. And I assume he had a will and left it to her? Yes.

Okay. All right. Did he leave life insurance as well to her? Yes. Okay. How much? I think that was $2.50. And there's a bunch, it was a car accident, so there's quite a lot of other things that are

currently in play there. And it's going to be a lot more than that. Okay. So there'll be that someone else is going to have to pay for the wrongful death. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. It doesn't affect this deal, but it does affect making sure your mom's taking care of is kind of what I'm thinking about.

And you are too? Yeah. All right. Yes. And so did they have a nest egg? Are they in good shape financially? Is she okay? They're okay.

They've got, I just, I'm reticent to divulge too much about their personal thing, but they didn't have a huge amount of retirement. I think they've only got maybe a hundred, hundred, hundred and 20. Okay. So this transaction is very important. to her future. Yes. Less important once all of the insurance components are played out. Yeah, but those take a while.

And they take longer than everybody thinks. Right. She did get the life insurance already. Oh, that's true. But I'm talking about the, there'll be lawsuits over the car thing. The insurance companies will sue each other and they'll be, that begin the lawyer dance. And it takes a while for those lawyers to dance. They're slow dancers.

Yeah. Well, yeah, our lawyer is just a family friend, and she's just been incredible. So I'm not too worried about that. Well, I'm just telling you. I don't care how long they think it's going to take count on twice that. Yeah. It's just they don't do their jobs. All right.

So, hey, okay, so what was the net profit on the $1.8 million? So, yeah, here's the question is if I run it on cash basis, we lost, money on accrual because we're in construction, we made 186,000. It's about 10%. It's just I had a bunch of jobs close out. Some of those GCs are commercial, which means I invoice in January, and I'm still not getting paid until, you know, the end of February on some of those. Which I know that.

That's a calendar year thing. That's a calendar year. The accounting method just straddled the end of the year, and that's what's up the books. Okay, so what we're looking for here is not necessarily a tax calculation. What we're looking for is what the real business is actually earning. Yes. And so the cash basis is a misnomer, but so is the accrual. It's probably the actual earnings are probably somewhere between there, aren't they?

I would say so, yeah. Yeah, I mean, if we just totaled up the last three years or two years and said, you know, what was a net profit taxable income for the last two years and just used that number, an average of that, you're probably going to find it to be 100, 100, and a quarter, aren't you? So we've been working on, my dad and I, on doing a lot of on versus in the business in the last couple of years. We attended Master Series. So, like, we're doing a lot of stuff that's increasing revenues and increasing our profit margins. Yeah, your profit margins suck.

Yeah, so we're kind of like waiting until they got a lot better before doing the determination of the profit price, which I was okay with because that's my future and it takes care of my parents. So just it feels like the future of our business is, it keeps going up, the profits are going up, revenues are going up, and the purchase price right now may be really advantageous to me. It doesn't feel like it's taken care of my mom or, like, honoring the foundation that my dad set, if that makes sense. Even though cold, hard lie today, you know, the business hasn't been super profitable. If anyone else was buying the business, they would buy it based on today's numbers. It doesn't really matter if the money goes to your mom and then she passes away because you, and you inflated the price. and so more money went to her in the name of honoring her, taking care of her. She passes away what happens to that money.

Right. Comes back to you? Me and my siblings, yeah. You're in your siblings. So now you've honored your siblings. Mm-hmm. So where do they work there? No, no, just me.

Okay. And does mom earn a salary for being the bookkeeper? Yes, she does. How much? I think it's about 90,000. Okay. So technically speaking, mom is able to eat as long as she's able to keep the books. Yes. She makes a good income and she's got $250,000 and she's got an off set and she's got some money coming. I mean, she's got a car wreck insurance coming and she's got some money coming from you. And she makes $90,000 a year. So she's okay, man. Mm-hmm.

she's okay so if she gets uh a few hundred thousand more from you uh because if this thing let's say it's you know let's just call it 150 will be generous okay yeah 150 000 a year net profit then i mean you you've you guys you and your dad have listened to us you both knew what the numbers were we're going to say four or five times that is the value and what do you make as a salary uh like 93 okay and that's before this profit occurs correct Correct. Correct. And what was your dad being paid? He was, I don't remember out the top of my head. I think he was around between 70 and 80 because he was taking more profit distributions. Yeah. From a mathematical standpoint, if you're able to do your old job and be the owner and president of the business, become the new owner and keep your old job covered as well, then you've increased the profit by 70 grand, what your dad used to take. Right.

Does that make sense? Mathematically, okay? And so, yeah, so we can go with 150 or we can go with a little more. I don't care, but somewhere in there. And so if you said four times 150, we're at 600, correct? Yeah. Or if you want to do five times, that would be then 750. Okay.

And so, you know, if you want to be generous, set it at 600 to 750, somewhere in there is not going to be, that's that's that's that's full price and that's nothing wrong with that and your mom is okay she's at that point a millionaire right and so and she makes 90,000 dollars a year and she's 62 years old or whatever so I think you've honored her and in if worst case something happened that all that fell apart so you pay her out a hundred you pay her 80, 90 percent of profits and you keep your same salary she keeps her same salary, and you set a price, and it pays out in four to five years. And if you increase your profits, it pays out quicker than that. And she's got that block of money.

If I'm her son, I'm going to be sitting down with her in a smart investor pro and investing that six or seven hundred thousand that comes in over the next four or five years in good mutual funds and creates another $100,000 a year in income. And then whenever she wants to retire and not keep books anymore, she'll have that income plus Social Security and she's got a big block of money plus 250 to invest from life insurance plus whatever comes from the car wreck dispute anyway does that all sound right it does it's it's lining up with what I thought but it's really good to hear you say yeah I think you've honored her I think you've honored your dad I think it's a heartbreaking tearful situation

the great news is that you and your dad were already talking about this even though it wasn't structurally in place and what I'm hearing from you is is this is what your dad would have done and so I don't think he would be like saying oh Dave and Josiah messed this up I think he would agree with you and I wouldn't he yeah yeah it's just we were hoping to get net profit up for longer that that value was higher because yeah that's that's good for everybody so I think that's where I read it. Well, and here's the thing. If the thing kicks up and you start making $500,000 a year out of it,

five years, six years from now, and your mom's in trouble, dude, you can help her. Yeah. But she's not going to be in trouble. She's going to have a million dollars. But she's okay, man. She's got a million dollars in this discussion plus the lawsuit issue. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Man, I'm sorry. Yeah. It just turns all this into a dad, this heartbreak. into a business transaction. But if I run the numbers and it feels right in my heart, then I know my ethics are intact. And if it was going the other way, if your mom called and said, what should I do with Josiah, I would tell her this right here. I'd tell her the same exact thing.

So that tells me my ethics and your ethics are in line and honoring your mom and honoring this situation. Wow. What a heartbreak. I'm really, really glad, though, that you and your dad had had a bunch of discussions about this. That makes it a lot easier because you're heading in the right way versus the laymo accountant, 5% a year crap. 20 years from now, you will own the business at 5% a year. Shoot me. Wow.

It's a bad plan. I'm glad y'all broke that up. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Welcome back to the Entree Leadership Podcast. My good friend, Ken Coleman, the former host of the Entree Leadership Podcast. joins me in the studio. He's also Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author three times over. Host of a brand-new product here on Ramsey Networks called The Front Row Seat.

If you've not had an opportunity to join the Front Row Seat, you should. He'll be speaking at Entree Leadership Summit, May 18 and 21 when we're in Denver. One of our Ramsey personalities is helping us out there with great information and pretty fun stuff. So, front-row seat is happening. It's real. Tell folks what it's about. You know, it's a conversation. We have three clear goals.

We want to have conversations that promote anybody who listens or watches, his ability to get better personally, which means they're going to take a better version of themselves into the office. And when you get better, you have the opportunity to move up. That is for progress, promotions. And we know in the America workplace, if you move up two or three times, you're going to move into some type of a leadership role. And so we want you to be able to be able to.

lead well. So those of our three buckets of content, getting better, moving up, leading well. And we're going to do that with long-form conversations with captains of industry, coaches, thought leaders, men and women who are doing something significant and they've got a unique viewpoint. And what makes it special is we're bringing the audience truly into the show. We have a small, into an audience that sits around us. We'll be doing it virtually as well. and what makes it unique is they get a chance to raise their hand and get to ask a question. I wanted to remove that velvet rope that sometimes these awesome podcasts, you and I, we get to do, we're blessed to do some pretty crazy things and sit with people that, you know, most people don't get to sit with.

And I wanted to remove that barrier and let the audience get a chance to learn with me, but also ask a question. It's important. And the, once you guys take a view of this, you'll see that Ken and the team have created a almost a living room. environment to where we're all just kind of sitting around and talking with some people that you never would have had the opportunity. I mean, one of the first ones we put out was with Nikki Haley, Ambassador to the UN and presidential candidate, the last one to step aside in the Republican primary to Donald Trump. And obviously, governor of South Carolina at a very time of crisis and racial tension there.

There's a historic shooting there in a church at the time. all of that with her. The audience asks her some neat questions. And, you know, she's an incredible source for things like leadership. Yeah. And leading in crisis and so on. And so she's an example of the type of heavy hitter you're putting in the other seat there. That's right. To have people go in. This is pretty cool. It's a lot of fun. It is fun. I will say the team and I have enjoyed creating it. We tested it. We piloted it. It's done very, very well. And, you know, back when I, I spent three and a half of the best professional years of my life hosting this very show. And I enjoy digging and learning, but this is a concept that I've wanted to do for a long time.

For people who are old enough to get this math, the math is inside the actor's studio meets masterclass meets MTV Unplugged. You know, the studio we have here is gorgeous. It gives you that feel like you're in a pub, like you've all pulled up, circled some chairs around, and had a conversation. And that's what we're trying to create. You're going to get the smoke machine out to kind of get. get the idea that there's some cigar smoke in the air. We can't do real cigar smoke in there,

but we're creating that feel and very excited about what we've done so far and what's coming. We have some amazing, amazing guests lined up. We're going to continue to bring it. So I find, Dave, that two things have helped me the most in my professional growth. One, proximity, being in some rooms, being around people where I could observe and learn. I wrote a book called The Proximity Principle based on that concept. And the second thing, asking good questions. I think a question, a singular question, has the ability to change your life

and open up opportunities that previously didn't exist. And we want to promote curiosity because leaders are learners, people that are high performers are always growing, always learning. Yeah, but I think in this long-form setting in a living room, you're getting things out of some of these leaders

that you, the untold story, the behind the scenes, and probably, some actual scoops here. Yeah, they're comfortable. Yeah, they let the hair down. And you know this from Andre Summit. The goal that I have and the team knows this,

and they shared it with me, they said one of the things we've seen consistently at are your Entree Summit interviews and when you were on Entree leadership is that you got the guest to say, I've never shared this before. And so we're working hard to get to a place where that guest reveals something

they've never revealed before. Not as a kitsy kind of cool thing, but to go to some depth where we take that person to a place where they're thinking and feeling in a way that's beyond just answering the questions about their expertise. We want to have a deep conversation. Yeah, and the setting and the length of time allows that to occur. Now, you're going to be with us in Denver at the Ontario Leadership Summit, May 18 through 21. If you're listening or watching, I sure hope you're going to be with us.

Not if you not got your ticket, but you better check. You might be one left. and you're going to be doing a talk on the self-ish leader. Talk about this. Yeah, so the word selfish has a very negative connotation, and we understand why. But we're not talking about being selfish. We're going to talk about self-awareness.

Self-awareness is a superpower. And certainly for all of us, but also for leaders. We're going to be talking about a four-part framework that will allow you to become a self-aware leader. And the four-part framework is simply this. Number one, you have to be in a position where you have people around you who'll tell you the hard truth and say, you're screwing up.

You're messing up right now. You're not, you know, this, and these got to be people who aren't afraid of you. And you've got to create an environment where you're willing to listen to it. So you've got to see it. And many times we as leaders have blind spots

that if we don't have people around us to tell us the truth, personally and professionally, we never see it. So step one is you've got to see it. Where are my weaknesses? Where are the blind spots? Then you've got to sit with it, Dave. Now, this is the hard part.

And I'll just be very vulnerable. I've been in therapy for the last four and a half months, and it has been so life-giving for me and working through pain that I didn't realize that I, A, hadn't dealt with, and then B, it was affecting me in multiple areas. And it was a blind spot for me. And so we got to sit with it.

So that is either with a therapist, a coach, a pastor, prayer, scripture, you've got to sit with it long enough to where you get to the point to see what's below the weakness. You know, I'm going to say this. I believe this is true. most of our professional shortcomings as leaders have a personal reason behind it. Oh, sure. We know this.

I don't think that's some big shocking thing. But the point is, as a leader, it's hard to go, okay, I'm micromanaging my team. I'll use that as an example. Okay, why are you micromanaging? Well, you're afraid of something. What are you afraid of? Then once you figure out what you're afraid of, why are you afraid of it? That's what I mean by sit with it.

The third thing you've got to do is share it with the team. Now, here's the thing about sharing it with the team and with your friends and your family. It's not breaking news. You're the last person to know. They already know. So why is their power in sharing it? That vulnerability does two things. It creates amazing trust because the team goes,

okay, now we've got a leader who's owning stuff that we've seen. They are owning it. And that transparency creates trust. The other thing that it does is it opens you up to now be able to get their feedback on how to solve it, and then you got to receive what they're saying. That's the four things, solve it. So I'm not doing the whole talk right now, but we're going to cover those four things. You've got to see it, sit in it, share it, and then solve for it.

And, you know, some of this is really personal, but a lot of it is just, you know, I've had the privilege of interviewing thousands of leaders in my career. And the ones that I could look at from history that I've read, you and I both love biographies, the most powerful, most influential, healthy leaders were those that were self-aware. And self-awareness is a superpower. And it's a bit of an homage to my former boss, your good friend, John Maxwell,

who one of his 21 laws is the law of the lid. And because he's going to be there, I'm just going to briefly pay homage to that. But one of the lids for leaders, Dave, is a lack of self-awareness. Yeah, hold you back for sure. Because it's impossible to fix the whole. holes if you don't know they're there.

Can't even see it. You're walking around like a horse. You know, I think of a horse with blinders. And I'll just be getting vulnerable. I was in a place where I was like one of those thoroughbreds in the Kentucky Derby. They put blinders on their eyes so that they're only looking forward. But they bump into each other because of that. And it can be a real scrum and a real mess in that.

And so we've got to take the blinders off so that we aren't bumping into everybody and causing, you know. Get a little peripheral vision going. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what we're going to share. I think it'll be, hopefully it'll be helpful to every leader in the room. I believe it'll be applicable to every leader. Yeah. So the self-ish, self-aware leader will be talked about in Denver, Colorado at the Gaylord Resort.

Ken Coleman-Ramsey personality will be one of our people that attends that and is speaking, and he'll be talking about that. Be sure and check out the new show, Front Row Seat as well. There's several of them already posted, and you can go back and kind of catch up. If you want to, there's some excellent, excellent interviews on there already and many, many more to come. So just go ahead and subscribe so they drop into your inbox and they're automatically in your podcast process. You don't want to miss that. Ken, thanks for dropping by, brother.

Thanks for having me. Can't wait to see everybody at Summit. Going to be great. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. We're glad you're with us. If you want information from a think tank or a theoretical professor, you're in the wrong place.

I'm not that guy. I might have had a thought once and I might have a gas tank, but they were never put together. I can tell you that. So this is all practical. This is all shoveling the ditch. This is all cutting the weeds. It's whatever we have to do to run a business up one side down the other. And I've been doing it a long time.

So we're here to help you. That's what we do. if you want to participate in this show, we would certainly love to have you do that. Make sure you jump in. The phone number is 844-944-1070. And of course, you can go online and submit your question. We'll make you a caller as well at entreleadership.com slash ask.

Joe is in Springfield. Hey, Joe, what's up? Hey, Dave. I don't speak with you. You too, sir. How can I help? So my name is Joe. I am honored to be in a family business. We do cleaning and restoration. We have 30 employees brought in $3 million in revenue last year. Good job. I love it.

So this is kind of the struggle is we are a 24-7 emergency service business. So at any point, business can come in. And I feel like I always need to be available for my team, even when the doors close. I want to be able to support them all the time, but sometimes I feel like my team leans on me too much instead of figuring out some problems of their own. So I guess how do I get them to take more ownership of their decisions and buy into our company values? Okay. The way that I did that was when someone brought me a problem

and dropped it on my desk, I told them to pick it back up. Now, stand there in front of my desk and hold this problem. it. So when they call you and say, hey, Joe, wow, wow, wow, wow. So, whoa, whoa, whoa, okay, tell me what's going on. Now you hold the problem. Don't hand it to me. I want you to hold it in your hand. Put it back in their hands and let them look down at their hands and see the problem in their hands, not in yours. So the first thing we're going to train them is they don't bring you problems without solutions. So when they bring you a problem and this, this and this is happening,

you say okay how do you think based on what you know about our company that we would do that we would fix this and they will tell you and sometimes they'll be right sometimes they'll be wrong and you say okay what i want you to do is hang up the phone and i want you to sit down quiet and i want you to think for five minutes and come call me back with three possible things we could do to solve this problem don't solve it for them in other words make them think it through they call you back with three options, you walk through and teach them why you would choose option B or option C or whatever option you choose. Okay. So I think A is pretty good and I like you for recommending that. Thank you for calling me with that. But in this case, we're going to do B and here's why we're going to do B.

And it's a good presentation that you brought me on B, but you didn't have this piece of information I do because I've been here longer and here's why B works. And so really good thought. And you understand why we're doing B and they say yeah it's okay go do B and it's a phone call you don't have to get up get in the truck and go over to the site you just made them think through how to fix the problem then about five times of doing that or three times of doing that the conversation will start to shift along the way they'll call you up and and they'll go oh we've got a problem you say okay set the problem down in your hands don't put it in my hands now what are the three solutions you come up with because I know you didn't call me without a solution.

We've already talked about that. And they say, okay, here's the three solutions, Joe, because you taught me to bring you three solutions. And which one do you think we ought to do? And they say, well, Joe, I think we ought to do C based on what you've taught me. And you go, you know what, that's pretty good. Go do C. Or maybe A in this case.

And here's one thing you didn't think about with the A. We could do A or C, but I want to teach you why we're doing which one we're doing, not just tell you what to do. Does that make sense? And then they'll call up and go, okay, Joe, you told me to not bring you a problem without three solutions. Here's the problem. Here's the three solutions. And based on what you've taught me, in this case, I think we need to do B.

And you go, you know, that's really good. Go do B. And then the next conversation will sound like this, and you will love this phone call. Hey, Joe, we had a problem. I fixed it. I just wanted you to know. Yeah, right? Because you've trained them on how to make decisions.

Right. That makes sense? Yeah, no, absolutely. That's a, and I would assume with, you know, managers, is it? Yeah, it's with a manager. I mean, it can be with a tech if they're solving a tech problem. Right. But what you're looking for is you want to delegate the job site in the middle of the

freaking night so you don't have to get up and leave your family. You're doing $3 million. You've got $30 people. You don't have to be Johnny on the spot all the time. Great. You need a manager that can handle that on his shoulders occasionally. Sometimes you need to be over there, but you don't have to be on every job site at this stage. This is you learning to work on your business, not just in your business, what Gerber says in the E-Meth book.

Yep. But that's how you hand it off, is you're training them how you made the decisions. And sometimes it's not a technical methodology for the decision making. Sometimes you go, okay, the way we made this decision is it's cheaper. Or the way we made this decision is it's what the customer would. want and we're going to surprise and delight the customer and it's one of the things we always do. We made this decision based on this and they go, oh, okay, so anytime I'm faced with that thing, I can use that value or that principle to make a similar decision.

And you're not teaching them technical, tactical decision making. You're teaching them principled and value-based decision making and you're transferring the values and principles that you believe in that cause you to grow a wonderful business to, $3 million a year. You didn't do that by being a dufus. Right. You did that by being a stud. And so what we're doing is training up young studs.

Very helpful. I guess the problem is, I think sometimes, I don't know if my team's afraid to make a mistake, right? That might get in the way of that, do you think? Yeah, I can be, but you just say, hey, call me and I'll help you. We'll make the decision together. And that way, if something falls, it falls on me. It doesn't fall on you. Right, okay.

All right, I wasn't sure if that was unhealthy. No, I mean, that's okay for a little while, but after a while, they're not going to have that fear anymore because they're going to be so sure what Joe would do. Okay. What we're trying to train them is to have their brains say, what would Joe do in this situation, and they know the answer to that. Okay.

And if they know the answer to that, even if it's a mistake, they're not going to have a lot of fear because it's what Joe would have done. Joe would have made the same mistake. because he trained me to think like him. Right. You know what I'm saying? And so they want to be able to finish your sentences. When you start a sentence, they should be able to finish it.

Based on values and principles. And when you do that, then you've got a team. And then you're going to have this wonderful thing happen after a few years of this. And I get it frequently these days, but I've been doing this 30 years, is people come up to me and they say, you know, I was at Ramsey, or we worked with the Ramsey team on something. and those people are all incredible. They're so efficient, they care,

they're driving the lane, put the ball in the hoop. Man, anytime you get the chance to work with the Ramsey team, you're going to want to do that. And when they start saying that about your team, you're just like a proud dad at that point, right? Just like, man, my kids are amazing, you know? And that's how I feel about this team, not that they're kids, I don't mean that.

But, I mean, I get the privilege of hearing frequently from world-class leaders that have interacted with our organization and the quality of our people. But all it is is I spent 30 years teaching people to finish my sentences, to drive for excellence, to surprise and delight the customer, to do all the things that you're doing

that got you to where you are as well. So you're killing it, man. I'm proud of you. Very, very well done. Excellent job. And that's a really good question, by the way. We've got the quick read on delegation, if you want to read more on this,

and you can learn more about it at Elite. as well, Entry Leadership Elite. We go into all this great detail on how to do decision making, how to do delegation, how to pass off principles, not just tactics. It's very important that the principles are behind the decision are understood, not simply the what to do, but why we did it. And if they know why and what, they're prepared to do the next thing without even bothering you with it. It's very, very good stuff.

Hey, folks, remember better a weary warrior than equipment. and critic. This world needs more high-quality leaders, so take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the Entree Leadership Podcast.