EntreLeadership - In the Trenches with a Small Business Owner in Construction

Episode Date: April 22, 2020

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Hey guys, Daniel Tarty here. As you know, I love small business. I love small business owners and entrepreneurs. In fact, most of my best friends and a lot of people in my family are small business people. And so when I have a chance to check in and see how a small business owner is doing out there in real life, in the field, in their world, it's one of my favorite conversations to have. So today, I'm talking with a small business owner. His name's Tyler. And he's got a construction business. And well, Tyler's, he's stuck. He's got some issues. He needs some breakthroughs. And so we got to do a little bit of coaching. And I got to learn about his business and give him a little bit of direction about how he can have a breakthrough and move forward to the next

level. Check it out. We are a construction company specializing in heavy civil construction. We have a total of 16 employees, 14 in the field, two in the office. We're second generation. So business was started in 95 by my parents and my wife and I took it over in 2016. 2013, after the recession, we were doing about 440,000 in sales. And last year, we were just shy of 3.7 million. Okay. And this year, we're already on par to beat that number by about 10% by a little, you know, the middle of quarter three.

that's kind of what led me to trying to get on the horn with you today in regards to with business picking up the way that it is and even given the COVID-19 situation that we're in kind of how to set myself up to manage customer expectations when we're as overloaded with work as we've ever been. What do you feel like is the biggest challenge in this? How do we take a customer that's been our customer for 24 years? years and make sure that we don't screw it up because other work is already underway and the crews are committed.

So it's kind of like the cup with the ball underneath it. How do we move around resources so it doesn't look like we're struggling? But at the same time, trying to be able to communicate properly to them, the importance of their business and how do we convince them to, if they want us there tomorrow, how do we convince them to let us be there in a week and a half without hurting the relationship? Let me take a stab at this and you can tell me if it summarizes what you're feeling. So we want to be consistent with who we've always been, which is we show up, we're agile, we respond quickly, you know, we do what we say we're going to do. And now for the first time, at least in your four years, you're experiencing a whole lot less resources and the competency of your team and just the physical resource of your team compared to the amount of work that's there. And you're trying to figure out how can, you. How can I keep all of these jobs going and still be adapting and who we've said we want to be? Yeah, I think that if I had a magic wand, I would say that we would just, you know, wave it.

And there'd be another crew of competent employees working in a truck with proper machinery. But we're not really in a position to throw all that out there. So diagnose that. Is that something you could have seen coming and you rolled the dice or did it catch you off guard? And now you're kind of rethinking that position? A little bit of both. We definitely knew that eventually the work would come, but what we didn't understand the time disparity that would be there. There was some leadership changes that has led to that delay. And now they had increased their budgets for this year. So now it's twice as much work, half the time ago. That was kind of an unforeseen. And you said, yes, we'll figure it out. I haven't said yes, we'll figure it out. I've just, that's what their expectation is.

So what happens if you get going on the work and you don't meet their expectation at that level? They fire you guys. They get, they get disappointed. They flex. Yeah, our contract's up for renewal this year. So there's a strong possibility that if we were to drop the ball drastically, that that would reflect poorly on us when the time comes to renew the contract. Well, let's say, let's say you had to dial back 20% of what their expectations are on the time. line. You guys say, hey, look, we want to do this work. Here's what we're up against right now. It's going to take us a little bit longer than what you guys prefer, but we're going to figure this out. I mean, do you have competitors? They're going to step in and meet the timelines on what their expectations are right now? I mean, do they have other options that are really realistically going to step in at the level

that you're talking about? Well, so yes and no. We're locked in with a contract right now. There are other vendors that are on the contract, but there's only one whose price is comparable with ours. and they don't actually perform the work that we do. They hire us to perform it. So, no, their ability to go elsewhere is not as good as they would probably want it to be if we can't perform. So what are you worried about? Damaging the relationship as we're going forward. Okay.

So if we're not worried about really the risk of losing the business is relatively low. I mean, that's a possibility if you guys don't do exactly the way that you guys have always done it. And it sounds like the real concern is damaging the relationship. Talk to me about the relationship. Is this a person who's the shot caller? Is it several people? Is it working through people to the decision makers and people that sign the check? What is the dynamics of that?

We've been dealing work with the city for 24 years. Actually, this is our 25th year. So it's a long, tenured relationship where people have changed. You know, over the years through retirement, just position changes. We report directly to three individuals in different departments who are the decision makers. And two of those people have changed in the last six months. And so that was one of the delays that came down the line was the work normally comes through that department and then got put on hold while they were trying to figure out who's going to be the shot caller. Flushing things out, it sounds, you know, like I'm just.

sitting here thinking about it. It sounds like I don't want to start off on a bad foot with a new person so that when the time comes next year, that we don't run into any issues with the work coming through. Because if you did that, then it's going against who you said you're going to be. It's not sustaining the legacy of this business and the way that the 25-year relationship. And I think it gives them just a, you know, crack in the door to be able to wonder if they should give more work to the other vendor on the contract. And even though we perform a lot of, of their work that would still put them in a position where it's not coming to me. If you can't wave a magic wand and stand up another crew that can just make all this disappear,

what can you do that's in your control that proactively starts to work on this relationship and starts to maybe reset expectations? I think the communication is a big piece, and that's not my strong suit. How about I'll say that? And so it's more like crafting, I guess it's crafting a message to, communicate our commitment. When you say it's not your strong suit, what do you mean by that? I'm usually just telling them that we'll get it done and we get it done.

So this is outside of that context where I don't know what it's like to go to one of my customers and say, hey, so this is what's going on. And you have all this work you want us to do, but this is what it's going to look like for us to get it done. It's going to be not next week when the crew gets there, but it might be three weeks until the crew gets there. How do you communicate that correctly? how do you craft the message to where you're not exposing a weakness, but getting them to understand

that we want the work, we're going to get the work done, just going to take us a little bit longer than what you're used to. Yeah. And here's why. So it seems like you're a little worried about exposing a weakness. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's what one of our strengths has always been. So to have it do the opposite is it does make me wonder what's going to come out of, opening that door. Do you think the reason they have a 25-year relationship with you guys is because they think you don't have any weaknesses? No.

Why do they have 25 years of a good relationship with you guys? 25 years of good service and a quality product. Yeah. They can count on you guys. You do what you say you're going to do. I don't think it's a weakness. In fact, I think it's a strength. When you can, you know, man to man or man to woman go to somebody and just say, hey, look,

Here's the history of this relationship. Here's how we typically operate. I'm not making excuses or justifying any of this stuff. This is my business. We've got to figure this out. We're doing the best we can, but here's what I want you to know. We're still committed to the relationship. We're going to do everything we can to prioritize you guys.

We're going to do everything we can to deliver on time. And at the same time, I've got these limited resources. I've got several other jobs going right now. We're all in our whole economy right now figuring out how to navigate and adapt. can we talk about the terms and your expectations because I want to meet your expectations? But right now, those have been set at a level that I'm concerned. I may not be able to do that. And the last thing I want is us to act like we're going to meet them. And then in a month from now, you're angry because, you know, we didn't make the mark.

If we could have had a conversation and gotten out ahead of it, maybe we can proactively set some those expectations and get in the same boat together because they need the work done. You know, I mean, so they have an incentive to have this conversation and work with you guys to try to figure. it out. Think how much lost time they're going to have if they have to, you know, go through the process of you don't meet the expectations, and then they don't renew the contract and they go to try and find somebody else. I mean, they're going to have months of trying to replace you guys, you know, so I mean, I would rather adjust my expectations by a couple months and work with you guys if we have 25 years together than to just, you know, say, oh, I'm sorry, this is what the, this is what the expectation was. And so the contract's up and we're just going to go find another

another vendor for this thing. So I think you have a lot of equity as a platform to have this type of a conversation. Not at all how I thought this conversation was going to go, but yeah, this is very helpful. Wait, how did you think it was going to go? No, I mean, hey, I'm always open and that's the thing. Like, that's why I was, you know,

wanting to have this conversation with you because I felt like you would have a keen outside perspective on sorting through my mumblings. in order to get me to a better place. Well, look, you're being hard on yourself. I mean, you said earlier that communication is not your strong suit. You and I are sitting here having a conversation and we're communicating just fine. And so I think you, I'm going to challenge that maybe there's a narrative in your head

that's a limiting belief about Tyler's ability to communicate. Because as leaders, our ability to communicate and connect with people and build relationships, it is so core to our job. It's so core to the responsibility we have. And in this case, we're talking about communicating with a customer. But you've also got the same issues with, you're talking about the field management and the gap there. Well, how are these people going to step up? It's going to be you communicating to them what your expectations are. It's going to be you communicating and training and teaching and using your communication skills to develop them. And so for the next 40 years, you're four years into this thing, you're going to be communicating a lot.

And so I want to give you permission to, one, to grow in that area, but also to kind of hit eject on this belief system that you picked up somewhere that said, I'm not really good at communicating. Because you are. You may have some growth to do there, but you've got the baseline for it. And you're not going to be able to get much further in business if you don't continue to embrace communication is the thing you do as a leader. Yeah.

So let's talk about communication. communication. Why do you feel like it's not something you're strong at? What have you done to work on it? And what can you do going forward to get better at it? I think the reason that I don't feel like it's a strength is because normally I feel like I've communicated enough to someone. And so then I just bulldoze. And then in specific terms with where we're at now, it's just, like I said, communicating something you don't necessarily want to communicate, especially to a customer. I mean, with this COVID-19 situation, we've been, we've been having. two meetings a week with all the staff and like working on what feels to me like a tremendous

amount of overcommunication. What do you mean by that? I feel like I've told you this repeatedly over and over and over again, but I'm standing up in front of you telling it to you again because I want you to hear it and understand it. And the feedback that I've gotten has been very positive from the staff. Like they're happy that I'm doing it. Is that surprising?

It's surprising to my personality type, but it's very telling of how I need to be doing a better job of over communicating in my outlook. Because your personality, here's at one time and you got it and you move on. And so your assumption is maybe everybody else would operate the same way. Correct. Okay. But what are you hearing from the team? I'm hearing that I need to do that more often. Well, I think that's a big.

big part of communication is you're listening. You're listening to what they're saying. Oftentimes, we mess up and think communication is about us talking, but so much of it is about us listening and asking questions and giving people the freedom and the environment to speak and share where they're at, you know? And I know for me, I feel the same way. Many times I feel like I've said things and I thought people heard me or understood what I meant. And later I found out that, you know, the thing didn't get done the way I thought it would. And so, you know, I guess I'm crazy. I guess I said it the wrong way or they weren't listening or, you know, whatever.

But the truth is they're busy and there's a lot of white noise. And, you know, sometimes it takes repetition and over-communicating. But a lot of times it takes me, if I don't slow down at the end of a conversation or a meeting with somebody where I've been talking most of the time and check in and go, what did you hear? in what we were just talking about. If I don't get them to say it back to me and summarize, and then I can verify like, okay, cool, you heard exactly,

we're on the same track. I have that confidence that we're on the same page if they say it back. But if I'm just talking and they're nodding and smiling and saying, okay, okay, okay, and they leave,

so many times I found out later that I wasn't communicating well or that they didn't exactly hear what I thought they were hearing. And I made a lot of assumptions about what I had communicated when in fact they were just hearing, it was going in one ear and out the other.

I know in my own journey with communication, a lot of my growth has been learning how to ask questions and learning how to get other people talking more than me just talking at them. So I'm curious about the format of these meetings. How much is Tyler talking to the team and how much is the team given Tyler feedback? Well, lately it's been more me talking just because I've been trying to drive information home.

We do take time at the end of each of the meetings to ask for feedback and have a little bit of discourse. Maybe something I said is in disagreement with something they heard otherware. And we talk through that. Then again, my field staff is also a different type of person to where a lot of times they don't really even care that I'm up there talking. You know, at least that's the perception that I get from them. It sounds like they're working guys. They got their tools and they got their truck and they're ready to just go put their hands on something versus talking about stuff. Yes, exactly.

Yeah, I get that. Well, I think you're better than you feel like you are. And I think you are a fine communicator, but I think you need to lean into that. And I think you need to level up on that because this isn't the last time you're going to have a complicated relationship with a big customer. it's not the last time that you're going to have a gap in your leadership where you're going, man, we got more opportunity than what our team is able to handle right now. And it sounds like you're saying it's all on you. And you don't have the, when you say the field leadership,

when you've got to run out and be the field leadership, and then you've got to jump in the office and deal with the customers and figure out how to negotiate this relationship, that sounds exhausting. It is. And it sounds like it's not scalable. It's not. It's definitely not. So what are you going to do about that? Because we can't stay here forever. If you're exhausted and it's not scalable, what's the key to having a breakthrough here?

Yeah, we're working on conversations like that between my project manager and I and what that needs to look like. We had someone as a superintendent who left in February, which was really crappy timing in retrospect. So we've just been divving it up. And then, you know, in the midst of all, all of that is when this new workflow started. So yeah, so now we're doing more with less, that old classic standby and just trying to sort through that. But ideally, we would love to promote from within because I think it'd be great for the culture. We've always talked about, that's how we want to do things, but we're stuck in that the current crop of leaders that we would pull from is too valuable where they are. Well, that's true. But I'm curious, where is Tyler stuck is a leader right now that continues to contribute to these situations that you're saying that you don't want and that are exhausting and not scalable.

Yeah, I think the core of it is probably that I'm not great at delegating. So there's that. And then now I have less people immediately to delegate to. Because you're not sure if they can do it. Why not, why you're not good at delegating? I think because I have a little bit of an issue with perfectionism. So that's one of the things I'm currently trying to work on is remembering that just because I want it to be perfect doesn't mean that everybody else won't think that a 90% effort is completely acceptable. Right.

So yeah, there's that. Just making sure that things get done. I mean, that's the same thing. It sounds like you're worried about with this relationship with the city. Yeah. It's tremendously insightful. If Tyler's not perfect, if we don't over-deliver and do it better than they expect, quicker than they expect, cheaper than they expect, then they're not going to think we're worth anything.

Now, that's what I will not sleep thinking about tonight. So what is going on with Tyler that he believes he has to be perfect or else that he doesn't have any worth? That's going to take a lot more thought than we have time on this phone call. Well, it probably will, and it may be the next few years of the thing for you to work on, because somewhere that story got in your head, and we all have a story in our head that tells us about where we get our worth. And I've heard enough from you about your relationship with this customer relationship with your team and even how you're talking about yourself to kind of sense that you're pretty hard on yourself, and you are an achiever. And it's a double-edged sword.

That's what makes you great. But it's also what's... going to be your limiting factor because it's going to be tough to delegate if it has to be perfect. And it's going to be tough to give yourself grace and flexibility with a customer relationship and ask for a conversation where they'd entertain different expectations. Those things are going to be really difficult to be flexible on if you continue to be this hard on yourself and can't figure out a way to blend your commitment to excellence with some grace and with some adaptability. And that's probably the next spot for you guys to have a breakthrough. and it starts with what's going on in your own head and your own heart.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot to think about, and I'm going to spend some time on it for sure. Okay. Well, look, use communication. It is your lifeline. Believe that the options are there with your team. Believe the options are there with this customer. Lean into these things and, you know, continue to be bold.

You've been a bold person all the way up to this point. Continue to be bold in these conversations lean into them. You have what it takes. Like I said before, you're doing it. them better than you feel like you are, that you've figured out a way to, in your own mind, build up all of these fears of if I lose this key customer for 25 years and if I give more responsibility to team and they don't do a great job and you figured out a way through all of these things that you're concerned about when those concerns become fears, then you back yourself

in a corner and go, well, if it's going to be done, it's all up to me and I've got to, I've got to carry the entire thing on my shoulders. And that's, at one level, it's responsible. but as we said before, it can also be exhausting, and it's not sustainable long term. So I'd love for you to spend some time thinking about that and figure out how, by degrees, can you start to grow these muscles of handing some things off to other people, being okay with some failure. And we're talking onto leadership about the way that we learn is through non-fatal failure. And most of our failures are not going to be fatal. So I'm not asking you to let go of all responsibility and say, hey, whatever happens, roll the dice, it's all going to be fine. Don't worry about it if it all burns down. That's not what we're saying. But there's a lot of failures that aren't fatal that your team can learn from, that you can learn from. And I think even some of your customers are going to give you a little bit of grace on. And so you probably have a lot more margin than you're taking advantage of to experiment with that a little bit. Yeah.

You've shown me that I've got some personal things that are leading to maybe some issues that aren't really as pressing as they might be. That's pretty valuable. And that that's something actionable that I can work on. on almost immediately since it's a me thing. Good. Good. Well, as leaders, man, you get the nail on the head. Everything that's great about our teams and our business, we get the credit for that, but everything that's wrong with them, it comes back to us personally. We talk about everything rising and falling on leadership. And the good news is you can do something about it. The bad news is the reason it's a problem is somewhere between your ears. And so you get to work on that for the

rest of your life as a leader. But you can do it. And we're here to help you guys out. So I'm inspired to hear where this is going to go from here. And I want you to check back in with me and let me know how things are going as you crack the code on your own, on your own growth as a leader and maybe giving yourself a little grace and not having to be so perfect all the time. I will. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Go get it, man. We'll talk to you soon. Well, I don't know what you heard there. But what I heard was transformation. That's one of my favorite words. As people, as leaders, as human beings, we get stuck. And when we get stuck, we start to believe things that aren't necessarily true.

But those beliefs shape our behaviors. And what we saw was, you know, Tyler was believing that he had a problem with this customer that was going to be bad. He was believing that he wasn't good at communicating. He believed that he's not good at delegation. And he believed that this whole thing is on his shoulders. You know, I've been there. I believe those things, and there's days when I still do. And I imagine if you're a business leader out there, you've probably believed those same things.

But the truth is, it's better than that. Because when we embrace transformation, we get to grow. We get to have a breakthrough. We get to discover new skills that are down inside of us that just need to be developed and come out. So I want to challenge you to think right now, where do you need to break? breakthrough. Where do you need to transform? Because you can transform. In fact, that's what business is all about. Solving problems, transforming the lives of our customers, transforming the lives of our teams that we lead, and ultimately that starts with us transforming as leaders. Where do you

need to transform? Tyler's doing it. I'm trying to do it. That's what we believe in here at entrepreneurship that you can and will get better if you'll just lean in and embrace that transformation. So I'm going to jump off and figure out where I need to grow. Figure out where you need to grow and transform. And then we'll all come back very soon and we'll reconnect and together we'll go to the next level.