EntreLeadership - Leadership Lessons Learned the Hard Way with Patrick Booth

Episode Date: March 22, 2021

When his father quit his job to start his own venture, it was an all-hands on deck affair for Patrick Booth and his family. From shipping packages out of their Jeep Grand Cherokee to working the phones, Patrick got a hands-on business education helping his dad get the CCB Technology off the ground. Twenty years later, Patrick is now thriving as the President and CEO, but when he first stepped in to take over, he had his doubts—about himself and his leadership. Listen as he unpacks the common challenges second generation leaders face when taking over a family business, what he learned from his “failures”, and why discovering your own leadership style is crucial to success.   entreleadership.com/podcast CCB Technology’s website EntreLeadership Elite Advisory Groups EntreLeadership Summit DISC assessment The Motive by Patrick Lencioni Start With Why by Simon Sinek The 6 Major Mistakes That Will Destroy Your Family Business EntreLeadership Partners Schedule a call with Tim, the Producer   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, you know the phrase if you get hit by a bus what would happen? Kind of morbid, right? But the point is, you've got to have people and plans in place to keep the business going if you're not there. It's kind of a weird thing to think about, but it's vital to the future of your company. You've got to have a succession plan for your business. From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. I'm your host, Daniel Tarty, and my guest today is Patrick Booth. Patrick is the president and CEO of CCB technology.

They're a 40 team member IT company that his dad started 30 years ago. Now, Patrick and his dad know firsthand about succession planning. They've done it and they've done it successfully. Patrick has transformed the company from a one-man business by building an executive leadership team and then creating multiple revenue streams. And today, they're absolutely thriving. But Patrick's first memory of this business was filled with a lot. of fear and uncertainty.

When as a seventh grade boy, his dad came home and announced he had quit his job. Yeah, always marketing and sales, went through various companies, major companies, Carnation, STP, Western Publishing, and then ended up in Activision and then ended up in technology in a smaller company, which ultimately, by him making that jump, even from corporate America, to a smaller company, inspired him to start his own company. So there was a transition even for him in his career to get to even want to start a company, which is where we are today. Do you remember that? Oh, yeah.

How old were you when he started this? Seventh grade. Seventh grade. Oh, yeah. My sister was going to go to college. She didn't know. I mean, he just upped and quit his job. Like, it was crazy.

It was crazy. Like, and I remember my sister crying at the table. So, I mean, I tell the story often because, I mean, it was real. Like, we knew we were. We're all in it, like, together. We didn't understand what was happening really at the moment. Like, we just knew, like, dad doesn't have a job. Scary for a little kid.

Well, yeah. And then I said, I got on board, though, because he promised me I'd be the first hire. And I was like, done, let's do this. So, but even the things as kids of, what does it mean to have your life be flipped upside down where people are in your now basement working? And, like, there's not a separation between, literally, no separation between, a work and a home place because it's all in one roof. And even my dad, like, having to go through that about not leaving the house and going to his job and going to the basement instead, where the basement was where the pantry was and where the kids hung out and no more hanging out in the basement.

Yeah, we're seeing that a lot more in the pandemic, but people forget most entrepreneur households to be a garage. That is the beginning. The basement for us. Yeah, the 70s show. You guys do everything in the basement in the Wisconsin, right? Yeah, the basement. So what was that like early on? Dad was trying to get this thing off the ground?

Yeah. So the biggest thing for us, when dad was trying to get this thing started, my dad, Chris Booth, the biggest thing was him understanding and trying to cast a vision of what he was building because nobody had done it before. And he was trying to explain it to us and we did not understand. All we knew was that he would go to work in Chicago every day, come home, maybe. Made family a priority, but work was separate. Like we knew prior to the business. This is prior to that. Yeah.

So when he came and started working at home, all of a sudden, it made things reality of the worlds are now together. And so, you know, we would learn. My story is that I learned everything at the dinner table in the sense of when we would talk and have dinner, which we never did before him working at home. He always was gone. Like he got home at 8.30 every night because of his commute and the hours that he worked and the pressure he was under. So now we're having dinners together and he's telling us about his day. And I'm hearing things I had never heard before in business at the kitchen table. And it was eye opening for sure. I mean, you're learning about what his struggles are about trying to break out and like build the business and overcome the hurdles that nobody knows who what we are and what we're doing because he's always worked for bigger companies that had the name to the, um, to the, employee issues that were coming up of same things that we all deal with today of you know are they showing up on time are they doing the work are they communicating well and accomplishing goals and how do you continue to build trust with your team and so I was able to learn all of this by

him just sharing with it and I don't think he even realized I think at the dinner table that he was teaching me he was just talking about his day so there was so much that came out of that part of my education by just listening. And I was still a young kid in seventh grade. And so I didn't even understand everything. But a lot of things are caught, not necessarily always taught. And that was what my education was happening then. But yeah, it was amazing. Just to, you know, my dad and my mom, you know, together as a team was critical as well. Because my mom had to be willing to give up her home. As everyone was in the basement, when I say everyone, it was about five people, which is still a lot to be in the basement that wasn't set up for that.

But my mom was willing to say, yep, I can give up part of my house. But there did come by time. It was about a couple years. And my mom's like, I need my house back because this business is starting to grow. And the kids are getting older. And we need to have a balance of everything. And so, but a lot of working together as a team, helping them do anything I could do after school to help this thing get off the ground was how I learned. It's really such a cool thing.

in entrepreneur families. And, you know, I can relate. My dad had a small business and the dinner table conversations. You know, it wasn't necessarily he was trying to teach us as kids how business worked. But just the conversation oriented around, you know, we hired this new person today. And here's why we're so excited about this person. And here was in the interview process. We had this discussion. And it was so cool to learn this part of their story. And, you know, it doesn't necessarily occur to you that that's not the conversation happening in all households across America right dinner table. You know, it's a pretty special thing.

Most conversations are like, how was your day? What did you learn? All the stuff. And you don't get the real side of the business side. But yes, my education level was real time. And I'll tell you, the hires, it wasn't just the interview process. It was, oh, my gosh, we hired the wrong person because this happens. You get the good, the bad, and the ugly.

You do. And there was times that I was brought into it. And probably I was like, what are they talking about? like, why would somebody do this? And the reality was, hey, just as you get older and you become an adult, it doesn't mean that everything's going to be perfect and everything's going to be easy. Even as a business owner, you can have the right plan. You can interview somebody. And I used to joke with my dad. I'm like, let me take over interviewing because I think you might need some help in this area. But he was, he did the best he could. And honestly, when you're lifting

your company off the ground, you are trying to find people that can just come in and kind of help you like right along with your vision, but then somewhere you have to realize you don't want just anybody. You're not going to get there. You've got to find the right people that can surround you and grab onto your vision, but honestly, run with you. And it took my dad a while and it takes everyone a little while to find that. Well, that early exposure, you know, for better or worse, it causes you you to kind of grow up quick or quicker because you're hearing these stories of adults dealing with issues and drama and problems. And I think it's one of the special things about entrepreneur our households. That and finances too. Between the hiring of employees and the finance side of things,

that was a big deal to understand the pressure. And it actually got to me to the point I remember asking my debt, why do you want to be a business owner if it's this much work and this much pressure? And, you know, he said, but Patrick, you know, it's something really special to have your own business. And it's going to require work. And it's going to be hard, but you can't quit. And that's the mentality my dad has kept pouring into me ever since I was little. When you sign up for something, give it all you have. Don't leave anything behind. And don't let the hard days stop you from continuing to go where you need to go on your journey to grow and get there. And they also really always challenged me, don't quit. Don't quit. It gets ingrained. I mean, your childhood years,

that's when you're the most developmental, you know, from a neurology standpoint and all those lessons. I mean, what a cool gift that early on you're getting a front row seat to how business works. When did you link up that this was going to be maybe you're actually going to do this full time versus I'm helping dad in the family business as a high school kid? Sure. So none of this is secrets. My family knows this. I never wanted to work for the family business. I mean, I started helping out when I was in middle school.

My mom and I would load up the car, put all the packages so we would put the IT products. in there, ship them out to customers at UPS, and my mom's Jeep Grand Cherokee. All right. It was loaded to the gills, all right? And I started helping out in the summer. My dad, I've had like 11 positions at the company, including janitor. So that's where my dad started me. You got to clean the office.

And I did that. But I started doing these things. And my friends would make fun of me a little bit of, man, you don't have a real job. And I'm like, well, my dad's teaching me experience because it was janitor and then it was business development, well, actually shipping manager, shipping assistant manager. I got demoted somewhere in there. And then I got promoted into other things. But I said, I'm learning in education.

So when I went to college and I actually applied for jobs, I had all this resume experience. And I think it actually caused people to wonder if I was making it all up because I worked at a small business. So my dad gave me this opportunity. But as I got this exposure, I was like, you know what? I don't think I'm going to want to work under my dad's regime. I think, I need to go be my own man. I need to go do my own thing.

And so I ended up leaving, going to work for dual power tools, which I loved right out of college. And it was great. But I realized real quick, being a kid that raised up in a small business home, corporate America was completely different than what I had grown up with. And so it took not much time for me to figure out I was a fish out of water there personally. It works for a lot of people, but for me, this thing inside of me was small business. It's a very different culture. Completely different.

And so I was able to start to look at other jobs. And my dad was like, hey, I actually have an opportunity. I was living in Los Angeles at the time, which is nowhere near Wisconsin. Everyone knows that. And my dad's like, I have an opportunity just to help me just for even a couple months. Sales guy quit. You know the business. I could put you in there.

and I didn't know any other details other than, yeah, why not? You know, it could help my parents out, gives me cash flow, which is always good, and then I can find the next thing. And so that's what happened. It was a complete, unplanned, thought it was helping my dad out for just a little while. That was temporary. I'm going to find the next thing. Here I am in my 20th year at CCB.

I never looked back. It's been the day, I have at times wondered if it was, still the right fit for me early on and middle. But now I look at it and I look at God's plan and the whole thing. And I'm grateful that God has kept me here and allowed me to be the second generation to run this company. But it was never my plan. And I think we all can relate out there that sometimes we find ourselves as business owners now of something happened or doors opened or there was something put into your heart to go for something that you didn't even go to school for maybe you didn't even think was going to be the way it was going to get done.

And then you wake up and you're like, wow, how did I get here? Even today, I don't even know how I'm on this podcast, but I'm grateful for it. And I do praise God that he gives us these opportunities. And we have to treasure that and not lose that perspective because the days are hard, but you also can't, don't miss the gifts that God gives us in front of us. When did it hit you that it wasn't temporary? Oh, man. Are you like, okay, this is, I'm in it. Yeah.

Okay. So I was in California. Well, there's a lot of moments I've had of these. But when I was in 2004, I was working as an outside sales rep for my dad, but really just in my condo that I lived in. And I realized this thing, it was up to about 2003. I realized this thing could be huge. This thing could be big if my dad had somebody that could run with him. And so that was when I was like telling my wife, I'm ready like to move to Wisconsin. I'm ready to. And what was the? thing. What's the software you guys provide? So we were considered what is called a value added reseller. So we represented like 90,000 product lines. So consider us an online store. You could buy things, Microsoft, Adobe, Dell, anything software, hardware related. We could help you provide that. And so I realized my dad was helping nonprofits. And it was an amazing thing. He helped create a charity program from Microsoft back in 1991. So they could get a charity's could get a 5-1c3, it could get a 75% discount.

But nobody was focusing on nonprofits. So I saw the potential. Like, I saw that we could do something massive because my dad did not want his name to get out too big. But I was like, we're limiting who we can serve by keeping this thing in a box.

And I kept talking to him, and he's like, yeah, you're right. You're right. I think we can do more. So that was the first moment where I realized I'm invested. Like, I don't want to just do a job. I want to build something.

It sounds like he had a vision for something that maybe your dad had not had at that point. He was the original vision. I saw what the potential could be, I think. I'll be the first to say I'm not always the best to come up with the original idea, but I can see where it could go. At least I've always felt that way about myself. I do now as I've gotten older, I have my crazy ideas. And I heard that, you know, you're very creative and you have ideas all the time.

I think I feel the same way too. But having that team around you who can help you build it. it. I saw that I did that for my dad, and I know I need that as well, as you can easily get entrenched into the business side of things and you need the people around you to make it happen. So that was early. And then as I got into management, I realized the full potential of what it means to actually manage a team. What does it mean to manage a department? What happens if you manage multiple departments? Because you can only control a little part of the world, but what happened? So it kept pushing me don't want to go and do more. And then it sounds maybe silly, but I heard people say how much

they, uh, at other companies, I get together friends and like, oh, I do this, but I hate my job. I was like, why? And they're like, well, the culture's bad. My boss doesn't care about me. And as that motivated me, I remember talking my wife. And I was like, I want to build a company that people can be excited to go to work every day. Like, I don't want them leaving at five. Like, oh, thank goodness, this day's over. Oh, I don't want to go tomorrow either. And the weekend, oh, my gosh, why do we have, you know, why do we have to go back? I'm like, I don't want that.

I want to create a culture where people are like, oh, it's Sunday night. I can't wait for Monday to get there. So that was also driving me to want to keep growing in my career at the company is because I wanted to get to the top where I could control and influence and help the culture. My parents did a great job. But I had my own ideas that I had a passion for that. Yeah. So that all these things got me to want to be invested to be part of. the company further and further and more.

So was it just kind of like up into the right in terms of your passion every day you got more and more excited or was there ever a point where you're like, oh, I'm stuck or I'm not sure? What's the right answer I should say on this one? Yeah. No, I definitely had moments where I felt like I was growing and excited. And then there was, oh my gosh, we hit a wall. We hit a wall. And I'm not sure what I can do now.

And I don't even know if I matter. don't even know if I can accomplish this. Really? Am I, is this a fantasy? Like, can I ever accomplish this? Because here's the truth. What was going on that made you feel like I don't know if I matter? Hmm.

Well, a couple things. I think when you're so passionate about something and it's deflating where sometimes you roll out a new change, right? Something that you believe is going to help get the company there. And you hear the murmurs. Or you hear like, well, people don't like change. And you're,

you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, asking them to do. And I wasn't prepared

for that. I, I was living in the world of, oh, if I just tell everyone that this is a great idea, and I don't explain the why behind it,

I'd even know that was important. I thought, oh, everyone's just going to jump in with me. And, and so there's this moment of, it takes a lot of work, and you have to be able

to explain the why behind it, even if you get it. Yeah. You might have to explain that why over and over and over for other people to get it. And those moments tested me of, are you willing to put the time and the energy into it in order to get other people there? And so I had to, I guess, basically make sure that I could stick it out and make sure that I was willing to be patient with people. You always think you're patient with people. And then you get in these moments and you realize, wow, I got a lot of area to grow in this area of.

Patience is one of the hardest. I mean, it takes a lot of tenacity. And what you're talking about actually matters anytime you're in leadership, being able to connect the why to the what. Always. But I'd have to think that being the son of the boss, the SOB. Yeah, that's right. You get even another layer of resistance in terms of, you're trying to influence an existing culture. Yep.

And you're the boss's son. And that was always in my mind. Like, I'm the boss's kid. And my dad had built something from ground zero. So one, do I deserve it? this. Am I the right guy or am I just, I have the right last name? That was always constantly in my mind. It drove me to constantly be pushing myself and try to stand out and make sure I can do it right. I never wanted to take the shortcut ever. So, but yes, all this stuff is in your mind of how do I

get people there? And also, where's my credibility? Like, I'm learning right now. I'm trying to develop to be a leader. While my dad has been a leader. now and establish that respect. And where's my respect? So I had to make sure that I could grow my own trust with the team. So there's a lot of ways you can do that. But the biggest thing is it's how you communicate. And I do, fortunately, I've been very thankful to be part of all the leadership teams here at

Entry leadership with like CEOs, like, CEOs, you guys, Entry Leadership Elite. When I joined it was All Access. And the senior about six other CEOs every time we meet, share. about how important communication is. It isn't just a one-time thing that people struggle with. It's not like one business struggles with this. Communication is so critical for any team success,

and I hear this over and over again, and it never stops growing in this area of getting people to help follow you. You've got to be able to grab their hearts. But even if you can't grab their hearts, help them understand why we're going here. Because the heart thing might come later. again, you have to be patient.

You have to be willing to, you know, stay committed. And not just, you know, say that everyone has to say yes to me in this moment. It's okay if some people are like, I don't know how I feel about this, but I will support it and give me some time to digest this. But it starts with your communication as a leader. You mentioned earlier this question in your head, do I deserve this? Yeah. Is that something you saw eradicated over time or does that question still come up? Okay.

So you always wonder, you know, do I deserve it? And then as you talk to people, and I'm thankful that I've had a lot of people be open and honest with me about it. And I had some good friends and employees say to me, I'll tell you, you know, at times we did wonder like what was going on and why was your dad making these changes and why was he putting you in charge and did other people deserve it in the company. But now looking at where we've grown and where we have gone and what you have done, it makes perfect sense. why your dad chose you. So some of it was confirmation that I wasn't crazy and that there were doubters out there because I was my dad's son and that that. But the reality was I had to prove myself and I did it.

Like, again, it's one thing to continue to have this thing in your mind. Then what are you going to do with it though? Are you going to do something about it and hopefully take away those things that pull you down and make you doubt yourself? and what can you do to change the story that's in your mind, right? And not everything was perfect, not everything I did, not every idea was perfect, not everything hit the mark. I know that.

But I won people over because I was genuine and I was sincere with why I was doing it. And the number one reason I made the changes was I wanted everyone to be better and be more successful than they had in the past. And I think they knew that about me. It was a really big deal. I mean, it sounds like your heart was for the team. Sure. More than you proving that you could be the heir apparent.

It absolutely was about the team because I believe if I made the team better, the results I wanted will be there. But it was about helping people again, enjoy where they work, making them want to stay, not just jump to the next job that offers them a little bit more money, but give them a place where they can grow and get better. And that has been my passion. And then they've stuck through it with me. I'm so proud to say I've got employees that have been with us for 26 years,

24 years, 23 years. And ongoing, our average, I think our average tenure is around 12 years. And that's awesome to see that. That we can all know. There's something about history together that we remember what the old days were like. And then we know where it is today. And you just know that you have that connection is really powerful. So what were the conversations like with your dad as you started talking about succession

and you stepping into his seat, were those intentional? Was your dad driving those conversations? What was that like? Yeah, so definitely. He was driving it from the very beginning in 2007 when he named me the vice president of sales. He started bringing me into meetings,

meetings that probably I didn't necessarily need to be into, but like health insurance meetings. And let me tell you, those meetings were like, I had no idea what was going on. I didn't understand the lingo. I didn't understand. First of, I didn't understand the cost. I didn't understand.

So the first two years of being in insurance meetings, I was just trying to like understand what was happening. But by him doing that, it gave me again, just like at the dinner table, an exposure to another side of the business that allowed me to get clarity and also grow my knowledge. So when it was my time,

this wasn't the first time I was seeing it. Yes. It was something. I saw how he did it. He modeled it. It's mentors. worship. Let's just call it what it is. He was mentoring me to be ready. So yeah, he did that intentionally through our whole career of my positions, of guiding me and leading me. And then when I became

president in 2013, he really backed off and let me have control of making decisions, which was huge. In fact, we joke about it, but he had done so much mentoring between 2007 to 2013. And I always told him, please don't just disappear. Please don't. Well, and he never did until I did become president. And then he ended up going on a cruise internationally where there was no cell phone reception. He purposely didn't turn on the cell phone. Ultimate test. Yeah, the ultimate test. Think or swim. And I call it boot camp. All right. So it was like, are you going to make it? And sure enough, what happens? A blizzard happens. A blizzard happens. I have to make the decision. Are we staying home or are we going into work? Do I put the employees at risk?

Is it that bad? And that was when reality hit me that it was now my time to step up and be the leader of the company. What'd you do? I called it. I said, everyone stay at home. I don't feel like the roads are safe.

And I think, and I agonized over this. I mean, I didn't, it wasn't like just a quick decision. I mean, I got up at like five that morning and I was like, for three hours, I was analyzing, what do we do? So I made the decision. Then when my dad came back, I told him about it.

And I was nervous about telling him how I made the decision to not go into work that day. And we called it and said, everyone can have a snow day or whatever. And he looks at me, he goes, oh, that was the right decision. I was like, are you kidding me? This was so hard. And you just act like, I go, what would you have done? He's like, I don't know. But you made the right decision.

And I let up a big, you know, air out of just, okay. Because honestly, I still wanted his approval. Yeah. I still wanted to make sure that I did it right, that my mentor taught me right. But I love his answer. You know, what strikes me about his answer is sometimes these are fence-line decisions, and there's not a clear right or wrong. And it sounds like he was saying it was less about coming in or staying home was the right-or-wronged decision

and more about that, Patrick, you stepped up and you led. I'm glad you said that because I probably haven't connected the dots exactly like that, That is what it was about. It was my opportunity. Here's what he, you know, I stepped up. Like you said, I did what he wanted me to do. Be a leader. So that was, and it's funny because later one time I made a call and way too soon about going

home and I sent everyone home at noon and there was no snowstorm. It was completely sunny out and everyone left. And I totally failed on that one. So now I don't make a decision too soon. And I wait and truly make sure the weather report doesn't change on me. More information. But that's true. I got it right once, and I've failed a lot.

Well, it sounds like he was really good at bringing you along for the journey. I love this idea of sitting in meetings even before you have a role in that meeting. We've done that here a lot. Dave modeled that with his kids. Okay. And our operating board would meet every Monday. And when it became the conversation that the kids are going to start becoming a part of the succession plan, they would sit in operating board, but not have.

a vote, not have a voice. They were just there to soak it up and just see how our leadership team interacted. And that happened for a couple years before they were at the table and had a, I'm going to jump into this conversation. Well, it's a real situation. I mean, you're watching it happen. So it is the dinner table. Let's call it. We should call all these things. We're at the dinner table. They're learning and they're watching how you guys process and work through things as a team, right? And that's what I was doing too. So that, yeah. And I hope family businesses, I guess, as listeners are out there, I want you to know, like, that is so important. Super important.

You might be like, well, it might overwhelm them, or maybe they're too young or they're too soon. And I can't tell you the right timing of when that is, but I will tell you it is critical before you put them in a role that you give them an opportunity to learn with you. Yeah. I mean, there's just so much to absorb. I mean, you talked about insurance. There's the jargon, the weight of it, the risk, the financials.

And business is complex. And sometimes as leaders, we forget how many things we've learned one day at a time. time over the last 10 years that are now just kind of in our gut, our instincts. And you throw somebody into that day one, and it just floods them. And so we've even done this with our leaders, like in the Andre leadership team, where we've had our core leadership meeting every week. And up and coming leaders, we'll have them sit in the room, sure, but not participate for a season. We go, hey, this guy's probably going to be in a leadership role in a year from now. And we're mentoring them. And so part of that mentorship process is sit in that room. And

then we'll debrief with them afterwards. Right. Would you notice? Yeah. And they're asking questions about why don't you make that decision that way or it seems like there's some tension between these two leaders what's going on there and you're like yeah that's part of the thing and i think that's important that you set the expectations for them in the room not don't just be a fly on the wall but be somebody who's actually taking notes have questions be willing to like let's study this afterwards and engage because that's the other part again we talk about communication but as you mentor you've got to be under understanding where their gaps are for them you know and also i think This is super important.

My dad was a financial wizard. I'm not. And so what came natural for him, I struggle with. So the thing we have to be member is when you're passing on to somebody else, what comes naturally for you, and maybe it is experience, but maybe it's just natural gifting, the things you love and things you're passionate about. That might not be the next person. So you have to make sure that you know what your strengths are that come naturally,

but what are theirs, but also what are the weakness areas? areas of yours and what are theirs. You need to talk through where the struggle could happen. And that's the one thing my dad and I didn't do well on. I wish I would have spent more time with him talking to him about financials. Now, the good news is my dad is still alive and I still have him on my board. And he still quizzes me all the time about the financials. And I told him that I am openly admitted. I'm like, I struggle with this. And he's like, really, well, I can help you with that. So he's still teaching me. He's still coaching me. He's still leaning in. How did you, on the financial thing, aside from the mentorship with your dad still being there, on a practical level, how did you solve for that?

Have you worked to really just get great at that? Or have you hired somebody and delegate that? Yeah. How did you approach that? Lots. Although you'll be above, I'll say that much. I hired somebody as well. We never had a VP of Finance at the time. We always had somebody in accounting, but my dad was the VP of Finance, really. I told him, I need to hire a VP of finance. After a couple conversations, he's like, you need to hire a VP of finance as well. He understood that. And so we did. And that has been a huge weight off of me. As I've told her, you're my financial brain. Like, I need you.

And she's been coaching me and I've been asking a lot of questions. I read books. You know, I take time to invest. I talk to other CEOs. How do you read your financials? What are you looking for? What are the things that jump out to you? Because I want that.

So, again, as a leader, you can never stop growing. But I was intentional. I had to admit this is an area that I'm probably never going to be strong in. And I need to find somebody who's going to be strong in it, right? But then, too, I do have a responsibility to this person to grow my own knowledge so I can ask questions so she can stay sharp, right? What do you, like when you take finance, this is a pretty common thing for leaders. Many of us, entrepreneur wiring. We talk about coming from sales and marketing.

We're really good at promoting the product, the service, connecting with people. very right brain, creative. It's pretty common that the president, founder, CEO role is occupied by somebody with that orientation. And then you start growing this thing. And financials become extremely critical. I mean, they're critical early on, but they're less sophisticated. Then you have multiple lines of business and more cost. And it just gets more complex to figure out what are the numbers actually telling us. And it's super common for a small business owner to go, oh, I just don't get the books. I don't get the finances. Let me just hire a CFO. And I think that's typically the right move at a certain size. But from your experience, what are the critical things that you can't delegate in the area of finance that are still in the role of CEO that you have to keep your finger on? Oh, man. All right. So this was a hard lesson that I had to learn through.

I wanted to grow the company like any, I think, entrepreneur, you want to see success. So I started approving hiring a lot of people. So I know you mentioned we're at 42 people, but we jumped up really quickly to about 65 when I became president in 2013. And there's a funny thing about hiring people. You have to pay their salaries and costs go up. So if you're not stunning the finances. They never go down. They never go down.

And I tell people, insurance is going to go up. Salaries are going to go up. Those are guarantees, right? Tax are going to go up. So the reality, though, is I didn't realize that my decision making by not studying that piece or really focusing on. it, I was making decisions that was actually hurting the company, even though I thought I was helping the company. And I had the right heart in it, oh, yeah, we could use this person, we could do more with this. But you have to be able to understand both. So that was a hard lesson for me to

realize, okay, this isn't just something I can just say, oh, Stacey can just handle it. I need to understand that when I make a decision, a financial decision, marketing, sales, hiring, investment, and equipment, what is this going to mean in the long, hall. And can I? Because then I went to the extreme. I'm not spending money at all. And, well, at least for some of the things. And, you know, my VP of finance was able to say, no, you can spend money. We can do a lot of things, but you got to take time to understand where you can spend the money and how is that going to affect everything. So how do you guys do? Do you have a modeling tool now or a budget that you can kind of forecast out and look at that? I wish I could tell you we, we have a perfect plan.

We don't. But we have been meeting. We do meet as an executive team. And I meet with her. on a regular basis to discuss what finances are coming. So the reports, we also changed the reports. I'll say this. The way my dad had the reports, they didn't work for me. So I didn't change it right away. As I started to realize where we were, I said, all right, Stacey, we got to change the reports that fit my mindset.

And I think that's huge. If something's not working and it's not giving you the answers you need, then you need to be willing to change it and make sure you get what you need. So yes, now it's different. Now we look at cash flow consistently. We look at what's coming. I tell her what I need to understand, like, these are the decisions I have to make. Or I'll go to her ahead of time.

And I'll talk to her and be like, hey, what do you think? You know, this is what we want to do. Budget. In a sense, we are budgeting because we're planning ahead. But yeah, it's been a big difference is make sure you have the right report to tell you what you need to know. Otherwise, you're going to be making decisions completely without the right analytics and the knowledge. And it's going to get bad. So, well, this is still something I don't think I'm ever going to master this.

I'm just going to be honest. I have to keep working on this. I don't know that we ever master it, but the big shift you made and the one that's critical for any business to really scale is going from looking in the rearview mirror to looking out the windshield when it comes to the finances. Sure. I mean, having reports and dashboards and things that help you anticipate what's coming, where you're looking forward instead of just looking at what happened last month to see if there's any money left. Absolutely. It's a big shift. I remember being an entree leadership summit in 2018, where I first met you.

and I got an update from finance about our cash flow. And I mean, I was flying high at Entree Leadership Summit. Like, it was awesome. The speakers you guys brought in and my knowledge, I was like, I can conquer the world. And I got this one email that just showed our finances were like in the red.

And it was like, I just sunk into the floor. And Steve's who here with me on my trip, he said, Patrick, are you okay? I'm like, no, I'm not, you know? And so we ended up talking through that, ended up meeting some great people who motivated me and got me to pull out of it. But that was the reality of what was the feeling in that moment?

Oh, man, failure. How do I get out of this hole? It just felt like I got swallowed up. And I'm like, it doesn't matter how pumped up I am right now. Am I the right leader? Can I do this? Are you wondering if it was over? Oh, for sure.

I meet it not to company but more me. Am I done? Do I belong somewhere else? And the thing I learned is the grit and the fight that my dad poured into me. I knew I could get through it. But I had to be willing to put the work into it. And I had to be willing to change some things about myself. It wasn't working.

And I had to accept the truth on that. And so as soon as I did, I came back. and I actually drew a line. That was one of the big things I remember in 2018 of drawing the line. And I drew the line saying, this is going to be how we do things from now on. I need this.

And I'll be honest, what I was holding me back was, I mentioned earlier, I wanted people to have a great place to work and be happy. I was so focused on making everyone happy. I wasn't making the business healthy. And I wasn't being a good enough leader for the company

because I was so focused on making people smile. I mean, enjoy where they came. I did get that. I got that, checked. People were happy. But I wasn't running it healthy. I mean, the financials were telling me that.

That was the moment I looked in the mirror and saw the truth. I've got to be a better leader. And I've been on this journey ever since trying to get there. So coming out of that, what was the tension? Because I imagine you still wanted to make everybody happy. Sure. And you probably had to start doing some difficult things. I didn't go extreme.

I didn't like say that this is going to. Pendulum. No. No. So what was that journey like of maintaining this great thing you'd establish in the culture where everybody is looking forward to coming in? Yeah. But also bringing some more discipline. I imagine accountability, maybe telling people no on some things. Absolutely. Or you were bringing. Can't just say yes to everyone? You're handing out candy all the time. I love saying yes to people. It makes me feel so good when I get to say, oh yeah, let's do that. That's what grandparents are good at. Here's lots of sugar. Now go home and sleep in your right with your parents. Right. Yeah. How do you go from that, you know, kind of that Santa Claus

it's fun, everything's great to go on, we actually have to, there's some structure and accountability here without losing the joy that brought you there. Yeah, talking with a lot of people, again, I'm going to promote that, talking to other leaders was absolutely critical for me, other CEOs, asking them what they do.

I knew I needed to get a better plan, but I wasn't sure what the right plan. And here's the thing, I got a lot of advice, but I had to customize it to what fit for me and what fit for our company. Because you can go extreme, and you have to be careful of that. And did you plug in one of our coaching groups at that time? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, from the get-go, when I came out of the conference in summer 2018, I signed up to be part of it. But I didn't understand the real value of being part of a group until I started to see the need where I was drowning. I was needing this help in this area, and I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed. You mentioned, I mean, how does the owner, I wasn't the owner of the time, but the leader, the company say, I don't understand financials very well. Super embarrassing. I'm glad it's just me and you on this podcast talking about this right now. So, but that's very normal. Yeah, well,

but I didn't know that. It didn't feel normal to me. I just felt extremely embarrassed. But after I got over that and I realized, so then I started changing my meetings, I started telling being open of what I need. I had to be sincere and say, this is what I don't just, I don't connect on. And that, for me being able to just change and be open and honest and tell people that. I didn't realize as a leader. I can stand with your team. With my team. And in my employees of, hey, I don't have all the answers on this.

Like, this is where we're at. This is where the red is. This is the problem. But I'm not sure exactly how this is going to get completely fixed. But these are the little things we're going to do along the way to hopefully make adjustments. Right. and I still struggle with this in the sense of boundaries and telling people no, but it helps when you start talking about the problem. Because you can never get through it unless you actually communicate in.

And then I started talking about finances with the team, which actually leads to more questions, which led to more doubting myself, can I actually do this? Because people have all these questions and I don't know and why and how. and I'm like, oh my gosh, I need more help, you know, to understand this. So I do think there's a balance of how much you share, but at the timing of it and also be okay that there's going to be questions. As you start sharing, it's good. But you also have to remember people don't understand everything, just like you don't understand everything.

So you got to give it patience. It's the number one word that I've had to keep working on always. How do you keep working through it together? But it wasn't my problem only. now it became a we problem. I wasn't alone. I had the team around me. They were willing to understand

and then they understood why I was so stressed. Before they didn't understand why I was stressed. Now as I'm talking about it, it brought clarity to everyone to understand why as a business owner and leader at the time, what do you seeing that we're not seeing? And it drove perspective in a completely different view, which made me feel like I'm not alone.

I'm with my team. They got my back. They're going to do this with me. And I think a lot of owners out there are just out there feeling like they're alone. Well, I think there's a fear that if you're that honest with your team about that stuff, that they might feel fear. But it sounds like your team actually felt empowered and rallied around you. That has been what I have seen. My team has definitely rallied.

It's a great word around me to make sure they say, we hear you. And also, thank you for sharing this with us. like thank you for telling us where you're coming from. And that helped me be encouraged more to do more together meetings. Steve and I were talking about this today. I would rather us have everyone together than not have people in the room, like managers, you know, like talking through things together. I know sometimes are like, do you have too many people in the room?

But I think everyone brings a perspective to the meeting that makes it just change dynamically that I know I probably wouldn't see it that way. So it's good to have different personality. I know you guys are big on disk. We're big on disc. And that has been a huge successful thing for us to understand, like, who should be in the room. Why do they respond the way they do? Why is this person asking all these questions?

I used to get so defensive. Like, are they trying to prove that I don't know a lot? They're analytical. They're trying to understand things, you know? That's a funny thing when you're, I mean, I've had those moments where I was feeling insecure as a leader. And somebody's got a lot of analytical questions. Sure. And because I was insecure, my own fear narrative starts going, you're an idiot, you don't know what you're doing, you're not qualified. And oftentimes that person is. They don't believe in you. Right. You know, but it's not what they're saying. They're just, they're curious. Yes. And many times they're trying to help. Yes. And especially that high C personality doesn't always connect on rapport first with where you're feeling like, hey, we're okay. You might not get a smile. And you may not get the disclaimer before the question. You're just getting that hatchet. Like, why is that that way? And you're like, oh, God, I don't know what I'm doing.

Yep. Been there many times. So it sounds like your team is really, as you've got more transparent with the team, that there's almost some unity that's come from. You mentioned the pronoun shifted from your problem. It's not my problem. Now it's our problem. Yeah. Yeah.

And this was something, again, that I was able to build with my dad. He always had some managers, but not an executive team. He was a guy that did everything on his own. really was the head of marketing, you know, had people in marketing for sure helping him. But he made the decisions on everything. He helped run sales, did all the campaigns, did all the vision casting, ran finance and everything. When I came in, I realized, okay, I knew the finance thing was not my game. Like, I knew that was a struggle area for me.

But I did like sales. That was my background. And I loved marketing. But I realized how in the world am I going to help lead the business? company and do all these jobs. And I watched the stress level that my dad carried every day and working late at night and not being able to go on vacation without stressing out. And I'm like, I can't do this. There is no way I can sign up to be a leader of a company and do it the way he did it. It's just not going to work. And so with that being said,

I knew, and I told him, Dad, I need to build an executive team around me because I don't think I can do this like you. I'm not you. I can't do it like you. So that was huge for me to be able to have his blessing to build an executive team around me. So from the, yes, it has come together as a we, but I knew the whole time there was no way I could do it alone. And again, the finance side of it, though, was you know that you have people in charge of things, but how do you help them understand where you're struggling?

because I, you know, I'm wearing my Superman socks today. And, you know, every Superman has kryptonite that can make them fall. And I had to realize what my kryptonite was. And I had to be okay with telling them where I was struggling. But I thought before that, before 2018, I thought, I can't tell people where I'm struggling. Well, and you know what I figured out? By the time I had the courage to tell my team, here's the things I don't have put together. You're like, oh, yeah, we know.

We were just waiting for you to get the memo. That's so true, right? I know. People see it. They know. They do. I know. Yeah. So it's interesting. You had this perspective about your dad. Let's just call it the lack of work-life balance. You know, he's working all the time. And you didn't want that. Correct. So your solution is put this team around you so that everybody can have balance as something that you guys value in your culture. Have you found that it worked out? Oh, yeah. Even last week, maybe a week and a half ago, I was on the beach with my wife in Florida, had to get away. and I was watching my VP of services lead a webinar on the beach. I'm watching this from my phone, and he's leading this with tons of people on the webinar, but it was the whole team around him who helped build it to make it happen. Yeah, he was the guy along with one of our director of enterprise architecture,

the technical side of the house, is running this great webinar on how to migrate to the cloud with Microsoft 365. But the whole team around it built it. The marketing teams running the background. They did the promotion. Sales pushed it out. And so I turned to my wife and I said, check this out. This is why we worked so hard to build the team that we have.

And I say we, my wife, because she was my support and it has been my support through this whole thing of listening to me at night and talking to me about it. And is this the right plan? And she's helped be there for me. And with that, I was so proud. that my team was running this incredible event and I was nowhere to be around. It wasn't that I didn't care.

It wasn't that because I'm watching it from the beach. I was invested, but I was so proud to see that the team did it. And I look at it, I'm like, that's so cool that it's not one person, it's not me. In fact, all this is successful without me. And that's where I would encourage leaders of sometimes you feel like it always has to be you and nobody else can do it. And I understand that giving up that control can be a scary thing.

But I'm telling you the reward of having a team around you versus being a lone ranger out there. It's so rewarding. It's so rewarding. I imagine there's leaders listening right now going, that's not where I'm at, but I want it. Like just hearing you describe being on the beach and just kind of casually, checking in, but you didn't have to drive and build the whole thing. That's a dream to have a team who's competent enough to do it at that level. What would you tell that leader that they have to do in order to create that? How do you actually build that team? Yeah, it takes time. So that's another

big factor of, I think you have to know what, you have to look at and say, what is the thing that you bring to the table that is only your specialty, right? The thing that you're really getting. And in because if you can continue to, if you had more time and you could focus on that, what would that mean for the company? And start writing out ideas of that. What would it happen if you could have more time to focus on the things you do well? And if you start to see that list of all the pros of the positive things, then you say, okay, then what do you need to do to do to give up?

What do you need to give up to be able to have that time, to be able to have that focus? And I think that's a good starting point because then you decide, okay, well, then what do I need to bring in. What do I need to develop to be able to have that happen? Right. And so I knew that I needed to have marketing and I knew I needed somebody in sales because I can't do all jobs. And the truth is, at times, you dabble back into things. And then you realize, yeah, I probably should stay in the other area that I'm now, I know I'm good at. But, you know, so be careful that you don't give somebody the power and then dibble over, jump over the hedge,

if you want to call it, and come over the top of the ring ropes, and you jump over and you get yourself back in the ring. Nobody tagged you in. You just jumped in there and be careful of that. I've done that too many times. But no, I think for me, it's the reality of you got to start somewhere. You got to start somewhere.

And maybe it's one step. Maybe you hire one person. I was talking to a CEO in one of my groups in Milwaukee, and he's, you know, I could tell that he's just, kind of feeling stuck. And I said, so what are you going to do when the time comes and you're ready to walk away? He's like, well, I don't know. I said, well, sounds like you need to find your replacement now. So you can mentor them. And I didn't even realize what I was saying at the time. I just was talking about what I had gone through and it just came out of me. And he did. He's done.

And he's like, you know, Patrick, you've talked about that. You've talked about finding that replacement and I did that. So I think you start with one person, see where it goes, keep giving it. So it wasn't an everyday like, oh, you're just going to walk away. Like, here's the keys, everyone, deuses, I'm out. You were like, how do I do this in a way that is not going to leave people exposed, the company in a bad spot, but you've got to start somewhere. So, I mean, we're talking from 2013 to 2013 to 20,

21 than I'm on the beach. That wasn't quick. Yes. And I'll be honest, my wife got me to the beach because I love working and I would have been at work not doing the webinar, but I love work. And you need to have that balance to life. And I struggle with that. I do. Well, it's a constant struggle. And I hear you saying we've got to start somewhere. And implicitly in what you're saying, I hear that you still had a plan. You have to have a plan. And that starts with a vision for I'm going to build a team that the ultimate goal is that we have a leadership team that I can delegate to. And you actually had a destination of getting to a place where you can work on the business and not just in it all the time. Right.

And so it starts with a stated vision that this is where we're headed, right? And you start backing out of the pieces of what would it take then? I'm going to have to hire somebody for sales, somebody for marketing, and then you start executing against that vision. I'll tell you where I failed. So I had the vision. I knew what I needed to do. but I also didn't understand my role. I mentioned focusing on the thing you're really gifted at,

but what do you need to do to help manage the executive team well? What do you bring to the table to the person who's in sales, over sales, over marketing, over finance, over services? What is my responsibility? So I thought my responsibility was to stay out of their way. That's not being a good leader. My job was, hey, anything I can do to help? And they appreciated that.

Like, they knew I would, like, I'll do anything. What do you need? But I wasn't asking the right questions. They knew my heart was there, but I wasn't making them sharper. What would the right questions be? Intentional, the goals, the deadlines, the plan, the why. So I ended up listening to a book, Patrick LaCione, on the motive. And it really gave me perspective of what a CEO is supposed to be doing in their job.

I just thought it was making them happy that I gave them the power. I thought was enough. They needed a leader. And actually, we were in a meeting. And we talked about hiring possibly a coach to come in and help. And I remember my VP of marketing looking right at me saying, we don't need a coach. We need a CEO. Wow.

Yeah. I mean, those are days you don't forget and moments you don't just like, huh. Yeah, that happened. What was that like? Okay. First, I was shocked and I was like, oh, no, I'm not doing my job. And that's a major miss on my part. That's what I heard was I failed.

That was my first honest answer. I failed. Then the other thing came in, they want me to stop up. They weren't asking to replace me. I was giving them an opportunity to replace me kind of with. a coach and she's telling me we want you to be the leader we need you and it wasn't the phrase of the time now I know it we want you leading up front we want you working on the business not in the business right is I think how the phrase goes she was challenging me to embrace my

role as a leader who needs to cast vision bring accountability build trust build culture, have integrity, we need you to be the CEO. I was like, okay, this is another moment where I need to grow up. It sounds like a watershed moment. Big time, big time. So I think, and this is not like, this is years of being in management. This is years of thinking, I did the right thing by empowering these people, which I did. That is so good that you empower your people.

They still need a leader. They still need somebody helping them get better. Don't check out. Don't just say, my job is a step to the side. You want to be a leader. You want to be an influencer. You want to make an impact. Take time by leading correctly.

But you better pour into your own knowledge. You better know what questions to ask. And there's a difference. Steve and I talk about this out. There's a difference between asking questions, interviewing somebody to understand where they're coming from and interrogating somebody. Right. For sure.

Interrogation is just looking for the, the answers you want and maybe catching people what they've done wrong. So I would encourage everyone out there. Like, I've had to learn this. Like, how is my questions coming across? Am I helping them get better? Or is it more catching what they're doing wrong? So a lot of growth, a lot of opportunity here for us all to get better at this as leaders. But yeah, that was a moment of I need to really up my game. So I'm curious the next day. Yeah? After she confronted you on this. Yeah. Did you know what to do? No, I avoided her like crazy.

No, no. No. It wasn't an instant download of... How did you start to go on that journey of, okay, I got to figure out how to step into that thing that my team is challenging me to be a better CEO. I think if I remember correctly, because I think I remember, it took a couple days for me to process this thing and understand what does this mean. But I believe I remember I met with the team and I said, okay, I heard you loud and clear. and it wasn't just her, by the way. After she said it,

I think the conversation turned, does everyone feel that way? And everyone said yes. And I was like, okay. So, yeah, she might have been the first to say it, but they were all thinking it. So I remember coming and talking with them and since how do I leave my meetings?

How do I engage? How do I ask questions? And again, this is a work in progress. I am never going to say I got it all figured out. So it's ups and downs with me of getting it right and then I slack off and I get it better. and I read something, I hear something, and it makes me say, yeah, I got to get, I got to get back on making this thing be better. So it was a process of, but mindset wise, I know I need to do something.

There's only one CEO here. So it was a mental change for me. And so, and of course, support of, well, what can I bring to the table? And they said, you're creative. We need your ideas. We can execute. But we need you coming up with ideas for us. us. I was like, okay, and then I gave myself permission by going to Entry leadership to sometimes

draw lines where I wasn't drawing lines. So, you know, I knew where I could help them, but where was I hurting the team? It was staying out of their way. It was not drawing lines. It was confusion, right? It was bringing in probably not necessarily just trusting like fully, because that's easy. I like to trust people. In fact, sometimes it gets me in trouble because I try. us people so much. That was never the issue, but it was more of, are you okay that we're not going to do it exactly your way? And am I okay with it? So again, just backing up, there's this thing of you can't just put down the pedal on gas and go crazy and you can't hit the break every five seconds where people are getting jerked around in the car. You got to have this balance between

the both tools are very important. You need to be able to go fast and slow down and sometimes stop, but you've got to have that balance. Otherwise, people get really jerked around all the time and it's terrible to know that they feel like they're in a uncomfortable whiplash car ride with you. So you have to have some consistency there, but don't forget that they still need you helping them get there. And I'm a light switch. I struggle with this. Seriously. I'm either on or I'm off.

How do I find that middle? And I'm sure I'm the only leader of the struggles with this. Oh, man, it's super common. I mean, my struggles are, like, whatever's in front of me, I'm a 10 out of 10 on that thing. Okay. You know, so, like, we're doing this podcast right now. It's all I'm thinking about. Sure.

You know, and then I'll go to the next meeting and I'll be completely absorbed with that. And if I get 20 to 30 things going at one time, all these irons in the fire, and they all have people attached to them. Absolutely. Who have made commitments to be their leader and help support them. Well, I can only juggle 10 or 15 of them. Yep. And so the others that are still over there. on the side. I know. It's not in my mind, but for that person, it's the only thing going on. And they're going,

you abandon me. Yes. Where'd you go? Yes. You know, and it's not, it's not a lack of compassion, because I love our people. It's just I can get so overloaded with all the ideas and being all in on those things. And then at the end of the day, I'm just like, and what I need to be at the end of the day is enough gas in the tank to check in with the people that I haven't seen in a couple days. Absolutely. Right. can follow up with them because they're wondering where I'm at. Yep, yep. And again, it's that personal relationship thing. Again, we're talking about trust. We all, we all need that connection. It's so important. And I know that it's been trying during the last year where people aren't not necessarily altogether, but you got to keep finding ways to invest in that relationship, the check-ins that you're

talking about. Even recently in our, we did our performance reviews. I know people still do those out there. We do. So we did a performance review. And my VP of Finance, said, I need more time with you. I do. Like, well, we go over reports. Yeah, I need more time with you. I need to talk to you more about the department. I need to strategize with you. I just need more time with you, Patrick, like to talk to you about where I'm at as a leader. And that was really good. And I was glad she spoke up and said it. But my point is, we've been working together for years now. Like, I know like eight years now. So she still needs it. Yep. Still needs it. And every year brings his own challenges. So we're all getting better, but we also are being tested and it's hard.

So that's why leaders, like CEOs, need people, but all of your people underneath you just need to know that you care and that you take time to understand where they're at and then help them get through it, you know? You're not their psychologist just to listen. You've got to help them get through the problems that they're experiencing in life and at work. It's one big, hot of messiness, but how do you get through it together, right? That's really good. You've alluded a couple times to this idea of drawing lines. Yeah. What does that look like practically? So when I wasn't drawing lines, I felt like I didn't have the ability to say no to things. Again, I'm a people pleaser. I've clearly stated that I like to say yes to people. I don't

like to say no to people. I don't like to disappoint people. It really tears me apart. But there's times you just got to be able to say no to things and you have to be able to speak up. So this is one example that I know I struggled with was I had an idea of wanting to do a golf classic for our company, right? And we were talking about with marketing and they're like, yeah, well, there's a lot of golf classics. There's a lot of things out there that, you know, I think ours is going to get lost. And I didn't speak up enough to really say, like, why I wanted it about the human connection, the building, showing CCB, the style that who we are, our culture, you know. And I wasn't explaining it. So I just kind of let it go.

I'd bring it up maybe a little bit later, but I kept getting shut down by marketing. And I kept saying, like, I was frustrated, but I wasn't saying anything about what I was frustrated about. when I realized if this is something that I want to do, then I just need to come out and say this is what I want to do. I didn't, I don't like people playing games. I always say I like to be a straight shooter, but I was in my own way playing a game because I wasn't speaking the truth.

So they say it all the time, like this is your company. So you should run it the way you want it run. And sometimes, you know, you need to just say this is where we're going. And I felt like in my heart, I wasn't sure if I could do that without disappointing people or maybe making people feel like I don't trust them or trust their ideas or where they're taking like the company and events for customers.

That's not what I was saying. I was just trying to do something that I had a vision for of what it could be. And so when I came out and said, all right, we're going to do this. I'm not asking, I'm telling this is what we want and then I explain the why. I had complete support from the marketing department to do it. Complete support. They're like, oh, we thought you were just asking our opinion if we should do it or not. But if you want to do this, then we'll back you all the way through.

And I was like, thank you. All right, that wasn't hard at all. So it was just knowing where I needed to draw that line and honestly just let people not confuse them about what was the things I was passionate about. And so we've been doing it now for a couple of years. It's been great. We always kid we're more of the caddyshack golf outing than the professional one. That's where I belong. Yeah, know who you are.

We're here for the fun and sunshine, right? Hey, you know, somebody's got to be out there doing that. So, no, but it was great because it has built great relationships with everybody that I wanted clients. We've turned it into giving to some charities. It's been great. And we have best dress, you know, it really has turned into. It's a culture thing. It is.

But I didn't realize at the time, I needed to be a chance. maybe a little bit to know why do you want to do this. That's a key thing. You said make a decision and explain the why. And I miss that a lot. That's start with why. He's got a whole book on it. Simon Seneca speaking at our summit coming up in May.

Yeah, I've heard him. Outstanding. And that book is so important. It's a super important book, but I think the first time I read it, I was just, I contextualized that idea to the mission of the company. But what we're talking about here, and I think it's so huge because I have the same tendencies when we're launching an idea out there for our team, something as as trivial seeming as a golf tournament.

Yep. You know, I tend to process ideas like, I want more connection with the team. How can we get that? And I'm doing it all internally. You know, well, we could do this, this, this, this, boom, I got an idea. Let's have a golf tournament. Yeah. And what I lay out there for the team is the idea without all the processing that I've done

to get to that point. And it's amazing how, if you'll just bring them into kind of the storyline of the other day, I was walking through the building, and I felt like everyone's just disconnected, and it's driving me crazy. Sure. And I want to do something about it, because I feel like we need to be connected. And so then I just started thinking, what are things we could do? And then I saw a golf tournament on TV, and I thought, what if we did a golf turn?

You know, like if you just bring 30 seconds of the context before you got to the idea, that's true. That's the why. It can be that simple, and it really resonates when you share it that way. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's your value that you bring, I think, to the table as well. And so that was one example.

I mean, constantly just this is what we need in sales, X amount of phone calls. Well, what do you want, Patrick? Like, what is it that's going to make you have peace as the leader of the company? What can we do to help you? And that's the thing I think most of your team members want to help you get there. I do. You just need to be vulnerable to tell them what you need, why you need it. and then I do believe they will show up.

I do. And having boundaries is important because you could be all over the place. They can be all. Nobody does good with not having clarity. So I just want to encourage anybody who's out there like, you got to have that boundaries. Otherwise, people don't understand their role fully. And even you can make it messy as a leader when you start bringing people together.

And people are like, wait, who's doing what now? Like, are you doing this? Are you doing this? You got to have boundaries of this is where you need. And I know there's a phrase stay in your lane. That can be also a negative thing, I think oftentimes with it. Just stay in your lane. You don't belong.

You're in marketing or you're in sales or you're in services. Stay in your lane. But that can be a real negative thing to a culture. So you've got to have a balance between helping get ideas shared and understanding whose responsibility is now to run with it. And I love. I love the talk. I love the chemistry. I love the collaboration. But the other day, who's getting stuff done? So you got to make sure you know those boundary lines are there too. And then like I said,

it also keeps me in my spot of what I need to focus on because I would be running all around to all the different places. But I need to keep myself in my own boundaries so I can focus on the things that the company needs me to do. Hundreds of thousands of people listen to this podcast. And I imagine that many of them right now have their own business. And they're going, man, Patrick is in a zone that I want to be in. Sounds amazing. And I know that you are, you're like the entree leadership poster child. I mean, you've come in, you've done all the work, you know, but entree leadership's been a big

part of your journey. It has been. Starting back in San Antonio, you came to Summit, you've been plugged in with the coaching groups. What would you tell somebody who's going, hey, I've thought about getting involved more with entree leadership than just listening to the podcast? What's it meant for you? And what are the utility things that you've taken and actually apply?

where you can go, hey, this is what I would tell that person who's maybe wondering if they should become an entree leader. Yeah. Well, the journey, when I signed up, I didn't know I needed help. That was the reality. But when I got to the groups and there's been some changes, you know, people come and go in the group, coaches change, just happens. But the chemistry, though, the accountability and the trust, the safe environment where you can

be vulnerable and be honest with each other and talking about what the things you're struggling, with, it gives me a place that I can just be me. And I can't stress that enough because a lot of times even as you lead, and I've been saying, you know, be open and be honest and be vulnerable, but there's still a lot that you keep inside. And so when I come to the group, we first of all have a lot of fun. And I know you guys have all the priorities of the group of what you're trying to achieve, the five Hs and all that's great. But it's also giving us focus of, what's the one thing you want to get out of today's session that's going to make a difference and glad that you showed up?

Like, what's the one thing in it? What's the one thing holding you back? You know, it's taking time to just put focus on what is inside my head, but I'm not communicating of where I'm trippy, right? And then the accountability is when you come back, because you have this great discussion, you have all these people willing to lean in. You have all these people who are leaders that understand where you're coming from. They're sharing their own experiences.

Oh, I've been through that or I had that too. It makes you feel normal. Oh my gosh, I can't tell you sometimes the days I feel like I'm so alone as a leader. I'm probably, it's only me. It's only us. You get to this group. And you're like, hey, this is something other people struggle with. This is normal.

And then when you come back, you have your accountability and you have follow up and you have your encouragement and you have your cheering. You have, it's a great place to just get your cup filled, but to also, make sure that you're in the right direction, you're going where you need to go to help take your company and ultimately achieve the goals that you want to achieve. So, yeah, and Summit is just, you want to come and rock out, come to Summit. I mean, the speakers, the people, the atmosphere, I mean, it is awesome. And I guarantee you this is the stuff that people are longing for is can I just come

and just get my cup completely overflowing. These are the things that I think make leaders get better. It made me, I mean, it made me be encouraged. It made me feel normal. It made me desire to want to get better. But I got to tell you, it's the whole thing. It's a great package that you guys offer. Yeah, well, you're all in.

And it's been awesome to watch the transformation with you and with your business and your team. You guys are killing it right now. Record year last year in the middle. the pandemic. So congratulations. Thank you. It's a lot of fun. And, you know, if you're interested, if you're like, man, I think I want to check that out, just hit up Entrateleadership.com, talk to one of our people. Our advisors are not high pressure, try to get you to buy something you don't need, but maybe you felt a little lonely. Maybe you felt a little stuck.

Right. Jump on the phone with our advisors, really are coaches. And they're going to ask you about your business and what your goals are and maybe find a good starting point for you along the line of the different things, whether it's an event or a coaching program. But you're doing all of it now. I mean, you're just kind of at the level that's the top of the top. Well, there's different things that everyone needs. And I think that's the thing. What are you looking for exactly? And I would say, reach out. I'm sure you guys have it. They just need to know which is the right one and what, and each of them are different, right? But yeah, I absolutely think this is a great place for people to park and grow and get better. And I'm thankful for it. It honestly

has made a complete difference in my life. Well, small business people are my favorite people, especially family business. I grew up in that, and that's your story. And I know your dad's super proud of you, and it's really cool to watch you lead at the level that you're leading at. And we're cheering for you, man, and thank you for coming in here today. It's been a lot of fun. This has been great. Yeah, it has, thank you. It's my pleasure. And seriously, you guys have been on the journey helping me grow and get better. So it's a pleasure to be here today. All right, folks, important topic, this idea of family business and succession. Now, it's something that at Ramsey's Solutions we're working on all the time as Dave Ramsey, our founder and CEO, well, he's handing the reins off to his kids over time. He's

not going anywhere right now, but we're working on this a lot. And did you know that most small businesses are family businesses? It's a really cool thing. It's a special thing. It's a part of what makes America a great place to have a business. But it can also end in failure. In fact, many times it does because families have a hard time talking about the important issues that allow for succession to happen. And our coaching team works with small businesses on this very topic all the time, and they wanted to give you guys a free resource to help you have these conversations with your family and make these better solutions, better alignment with you and your family about what you guys are going to do. What's the plan? Do you have a plan? Have you talked to mom and dad about it?

Or if you're mom and dad, have you talked to the kids about it? Well, if not, this tool is a great Kickstarter for these conversations. The six major mistakes that will destroy your family business. To get this free guide, just click on the link in the show notes. Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Entree Leadership podcast. As always, if you know somebody that would also enjoy this episode, be a hero, share it with them, send them a link. We appreciate your help on that. Of course, you can watch interviews and highlights from the podcast on YouTube. Be sure to check us out over there and follow the channel.

Lots of good, good stuff coming at you in addition to the podcast from the Entry Leadership team. Hey, if you're a small business owner between two and 200 team members, we'd love to hear your feedback on the show, ask you a few questions, learn how the show's doing for you, and learn about your business and figure out how we can make this thing better. If you want to help us out with that, just click on the link in the show notes, fill out a brief survey to schedule a call with Tim, our amazing producer. He'd love to talk with you. Also, you can follow us on social media at Entree Leadership. You can follow me on Instagram at Daniel Tarty. This episode was produced by Tim Hull. It was edited and mixed by Will Rutter. I'm your host, Daniel Tarty, and on behalf of the

entire Entree leadership team. Thank you for listening. Until next time, keep learning and keep leading. If you enjoy this podcast, you should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network, like Borrowed Future. Not so fun fact, America has a $1.6 trillion student loan crisis, and it's out of control. I'm George Camel, host of the Borrowed Future podcast, where we uncover the underbelly of the student loan industry and show you what you can do about it.

It'll inspire you to see that it. It is possible to avoid student loans and graduate college debt-free. Listen to borrowed future wherever you listen to podcasts.