EntreLeadership - Leading Well Through Growing Pains of Business

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

Today we’ll hear about: •       How to expand your business without putting your current business in danger •       A caller who made $1.6 million using three simple principles •       What to do when you don’t like debt, but your industry is driven by financing •       How to remain connected with your team when you’re not in the trenches with them daily Links mentioned in this episode: •       The EntreLeadership Podcast •       EntreLeadership Elite •       Have a question for The EntreLeadership Podcast? Leave a voicemail at 844.944.1070 or submit your question for a chance to be on the show with Dave Ramsey: https://www.entreleadership.com/ask Start growing in business and leadership with the EntreLeadership Newsletter. Sign up to receive tactical tools, advice and resources in your inbox every week: https://bit.ly/3IRWnsL   Support our sponsors: •       NetSuite •       BELAY •       Payority •       Trainual Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: •       EntreLeadership Summit •       EntreLeadership Master Series Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: •       Elite •       Advisory Groups •       Executive Coaching •       Workshops Find out what Stage of Business you’re in with our new Stages of Business Assessment Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices: https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win in business and in leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, with over 30 years of experience in the trenches, sometimes digging my own grave, sometimes digging a path, and sometimes we're not sure which. So we're here to help you either way. This is a show about actual experience. and as my old pastor used to say, a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion. So we're not really competing with your finance professor who's never made payroll. We actually do this crap. So we're here to help you.

If you want to call in, this is your show, business people. The phone number is 844-944-1070 or go to Entreeleadership.com slash ask. Leave a little message, and the team will get right back to you and make you a part of this program. Scott is in Manchester, New Hampshire. Hi, Scott. Welcome to Entree Leadership. Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me. Sure, man. What's up? So I own a skylight contracting business.

We're on pace to about 2.6, 2.7 million this year. Wow. With 11 employees. My question is, am I biting off more than I can chew by opening an additional location in Florida when my current locations are all in New England? Okay. Why Florida? So the market that we're looking to open up, there's nobody else that does what we do specifically. Well, I suspect that might be true of other places other than just Florida. Correct.

Are you doing with a certain brand and the manufacturer is trying to get you to open a market or what? We partner with V-Lux, which is a major manufacturer of satellites. And they're saying we don't have a dealer in this market. Would you go be our dealer? Yes. And they're doing some things in the future within the next year or so to advance into Florida themselves. Gotcha. Okay.

All right. Are these mainly residential or commercial? I'm just curious. It's not due with the answer, but I'm just curious. Primarily, probably 90% residential. Okay. All right. Cool.

All right. Hmm. Well, number one, full disclosure, I have never opened an office in another state. So I can only imagine what would happen if I did. But I don't have like an experience to reference in this answer. In general, about expansion, I try to remember the military rule, okay? The military has a rule in the middle of a battle that they don't advance the battle lines faster than they can send gasoline, food, and bullets.

because if the soldiers on the front lines advance the point of combat past the supply of gasoline, run out of gas, they get killed, run out of bullets they get killed, they run out of food, they get killed, right? Right. Now, in business, what I've determined, that same thing to be, I'm not a military person, but that makes sense to me. I don't want to advance to Florida. I don't want to grow Ramsey solutions beyond three things. the three things instead of gasoline bullets and food around here it's money cash i don't want to get outside my cash i don't want to strain our cash technology if we strain our technology if we're

pushing the edge of what we can pull off then we're going to start crashing stuff and the other technology things we have will quit working and the human resource can i got the people so in your case, can you get the people that you can trust and delegate to and how fast and how long and how expensive is it going to be to grow that? And how long are you going to lose money for you actually get a skylight stuck into a dad-gum house? You know, that is probably a lead time here. And so cash is definitely a big thing. You have the extra cash that doesn't put a strain on your Manchester, New Hampshire operation for you to go down there and just cold, cold butt open a brand new territory where you know nobody except your manufacturer okay and then I don't know if

technology is your third one it could be tools is your third one uh it could be uh I mean if there's any equipment equipment I guess it might be your third one which would include tools and any specialized um you know large equipment that you use for these installations if you have a a skid steer or a crane or anything like that I mean so you don't want to get past your equipment. I'm making this up, okay, as I go right here on the call. But I mean, I don't want you to go outside your cash. If you've got plenty of cash and you think you've got a source to get the right people in there fast enough, then you can do this. So I've got a friend that has just purchased, he's in the heavy equipment business. It's one of my best friends. And we were talking about this

the other day at dinner. He has purchased two out-of-state locations. and they were not ground-up operations like you're talking about, but he purchased existing businesses. But in both cases, the sales associated with the location had to do with the current owner. And so if he buys it and the current owner leaves, he's screwed. He bought a, he bought a pig and a poke. He bought, you know, he's not going to, the sales will go away when the current owner goes away.

If they go away too quick, right? Right. And so he's got to, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, human resource issue that you've got to solve or you don't buy that location. In your case, you don't open the location because, dude, you know, you cannot tell what's going on when you're in Manchester. You're going to spend a lot of time in Florida. And the only way you get to see your family back in Manchester is if you get the right people on the dead gum ground in Florida. So that's the difficult one. I think of the three, if equipment is the third one, and if you've got

the money, the most difficult one is going to be staffing this and getting it to a delegatable staff. So they don't screw up your reputation. Sure. Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. So what you're trying to do is a strenuous thing. Yes. Yeah, I'm fully aware of that. It's not a no-brainer. Right. Right. And that's, I guess, if it was a no-brainer, I don't think I'd got the call. all. Okay. You would have just done it. You didn't need Dave. Okay. Exactly. Well, all I'm doing is helping you walk through what I perceive from the outside. I've never been in the skylight business. And as I told you, I've never opened up a location in another state. But what I perceive to be the issues. And every time around here that we get all excited about a thing we want to do, a product or whatever it is, and we go out past the staff. staffing of quality people, and we go ahead and launch it even though we haven't got his staffed,

or we get up to where the things, it's starting to be painful on the financial side, or the technology just is all screwed up and sideways. Anytime we get past those three things, it brings pain into the business, and I wished I didn't do it. So make sure you got your ducks in a row. That's all my warning is to you. And if you do all of that, hey, have that. It's stud. I mean, you're making $2 million a year doing skylights and

in New Hampshire, I hope you go make $5 million a year in Florida. You're my kind of people, man, get her done. But it's going to be harder than it sounds. It's not all opportunity. There's opportunity for bloody nose, too. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. If you want to be part of the program, we'd love to have you. The phone number is 84449-4-1070.

I'm Dave Ramsey. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. If you don't know the story, the whole Entry Leadership brand started when I started teaching our team how we run our business. If you were smart, you would call that leadership development. I wasn't smart. I was just teaching them how we run our business. We weren't that sophisticated. But if you want to be in a leadership role at Ramsey, you need to come to this little class I teach on Tuesday afternoons.

And I'm going to talk to you about marketing. I'm going to talk to you about accounting. I'm going to talk to you about hiring and firing. I'm going to talk to you about how we've gone through the stages of business, although in those days I didn't call it that. And I'm going to walk you through our playbook of how we've grown the business from a card table in my living room to where we are now. And I was doing it with an overhead projector every Tuesday afternoon.

Lots of other people in the community wanted to attend to learn how we were running our business, and it turned into a thing where we started teaching small business people, and then it was a number one bestselling book. So, and it's still a great selling book, Entree Leadership. So that's where all this came from. This is our playbook. And we just talk about what we've done or what we know about and how we can help you any way we can. We'd love to have you.

So we want you to be a great leader. We want you to have business ownership that is fun. It's always stressful. I mean, there's no running a business that doesn't have a level of stress. John Johnson, the editor of Ebony Magazine, always said that the entrepreneur is the only person who can go from sheer terror to sheer exhilaration in back every 24 hours. And so that's just, that's part of the, it's a roller coaster ride. And if you hate roller coasters, don't open a business. You know what I mean?

Because you're going to, it's not boring. Never boring. If it's boring, you're doing it wrong. So that's it. 844-944-1070. Paul is in Grand Junction, Colorado. Hey, Paul, how are you? I'm doing good, Dave.

Thank you for having me on your call. Sure, man. Tell me about it. What's going on? Hey, I've been a Honeywell building automation, temperature control contractor in the western slope of Colorado for seven years. I working in Vail Aspen, Beaver Creek, Teli Ride, all the towns in my AO. And I'm just going to brag here a little bit. In 22, my sales numbers were like 1.5 with a net of 380K, you know, with 6,000.

team members. Way to go, man. Way to go. Yeah, and this year we're looking like 1.6 million and 480 in sales with the same team. I love it. Good for you, man. Yeah, and proud of you. Yeah, and I started it like, you know, I'm 65 and I started this in 1997, so 26 years ago, and I've been in this area for 32, but I just want to say that after the GFC or the great financial crash, I, you know, I was a millionaire before it, net worth, and then after it I had like 300,000 in net worth, and most of it was whatever, and I spent five years or 60 months paying up $250K, and that was that nine years ago, and ever since then, it's just, you know, game on, like you say. Yeah, so it's hockey sticking after that once you got the debt off your back.

Yes, yes. Yeah, way to go, man, I'm proud of you. Good work. Good work. did it. Thank you. You did it. You're a successful business owner in America. Way to go. Amen. Yeah, I'd like to say something about that. You know, I was the youngest of five, and I came along, and I didn't learn to read until I was like 20, and I still can't spell, and it was classified as educationally handicapped due to dyslexia. And what my father taught me to do

is work really hard. And I've worked really hard in this technical field and use the principles of, you know, you know your business, you take care of your customers, you do what's right, and you'll be successful. You know, I mean, it's just, it's quite amazing. You know, my dad was an intellectual individual from right after World War II. He graduated from Manhattan College in New York City. And I came along and it was, you know, it's pretty interesting.

But, you know, if you work hard, treat your customers properly, know your business, you can be a success, especially now in 2023. It's just amazing. Amen. Amen. Boy, the thermostats have changed since you started, too, hadn't they? Oh, bro. Yeah.

Yeah, unbelievable. Unbelievable. So I did something, you know, last time I was speaking at Entry Leadership Summit, the team pulled some research out, and I'm going to do this off the top of my head, I might get it wrong, but not far wrong. The incidence, the likelihood of a small business owner being dyslexic is four times as many small business owners are dyslexic as the general public. Yes. In other words, dyslexics have a tendency to open and operate small businesses because the folks that struggle with dyslexia have an ability, their brains reset, and they have an ability to work around problems.

You spend your life doing workarounds, which is how you're actually how you run a business. Exactly. Workerounds and, you know, my grade point average is 1.9. So I failed everything I ever did in school. Everything. So failure to me is like, oh, well, you know, it's no big deal. And then, you know, I read Tom Stanley's millionaire next door, you know, whatever, 20 years ago. And I broke down and cried when I read in there that most.

People will start, a lot of people start businesses because they think no one else will hire. And that was my mindset. Yep, they do. You know, I thought, who's going to hire me? Yeah. You know, now I'm sitting here. Dude, it's, yeah. Yeah, it's hard to believe that was actually 92.

I'm a wealthy, spiritually. Years ago. Yeah. 30 years ago that he wrote that book. I mean, my gosh. Yeah, but that's exactly right. And the other reason people, some people start businesses, and this is the wrong reason, that's a good reason.

but some people start businesses because they're too honorary to work for anybody. You don't need to be that. That doesn't work, but there's a little bit of that in me. That's part of the reason I started is I just couldn't put up with anybody, and they couldn't put up with me. But that's not a good foundation to do this from. But way to go. Way to go.

I'm very proud of you, Paul. So how are you going to transition your 65? What are you going to do with a retirement on this? So what we're doing through reading your book, you know, Legacy, the legacy journey, my son-in-law works for me.

What happened when the great financial reset or whatever happened 15 years ago, my son and my son-in-law worked for me, and we had a team, but then sales went down. And so I went into the field. My son-in-law and son ran the office. And then my son through just not, it wasn't in his heart to do this work.

He went away and my son-in-law and I became close and he's just very good business, man. We think alike. We've taught seven financial peace university classes together, and we started this transition about three years ago. It's halfway. Oh, wow. The first quarter of 25, I'll be on payroll. Wow. I mean, I'll have a time card.

So you'll, you got the full legacy state. age of business going. Way to go, man. Yeah, yeah. And in my notes, I just want to say that you cannot start that too early. Even with the relationship I have with my son-in-law and our thinking processes are just aligned, it's still, it's an emotional thing, you know? I mean, you put so much into a business over 20, 20, 30 years. And then, you know, you're just going to give it to somebody else. You just can't do that in six months. It takes three, four, five years, seven years, you know, it takes a long time. The alignment has to be deeper than just general. Yeah. Very, very good. Yeah. Well done, Paul. I'm

proud of you, man. Very cool. You're a success, successful father, successful father-in-law. You've handed the thing off. Man, very well done. And grown it and overcome. What a great story. What a great story. I'm glad we were a tiny part of the story. But you're the hero. Very proud of you. Well done. Very good stuff. This is Entree leadership. Hey, listen up, small business owner. I don't care which stage of business you're in. If you're doing it alone, you're doing it wrong. You need people in your corner because owning and running a business just might be the hardest thing you'll ever do. Ideally, I'd like to see you in an advisory group or even executive coaching. So my team can really wrap their arms around you, walk alongside

you through every season and every stage. If you're not ready, you're not ready to be. If you're not for that at the very least, I want you to sign up for Entree Leadership Elite. Elite is our digital membership that will connect you to the teachings and tools designed to guide you through all five stages of the business, leveling up as you go, and no more guessing what to do all by yourself. You'll also get access to our regular e-coaching sessions and our private Facebook group. You can stop doing business alone. Entree Leadership Elite is your way to do just that. go to entreleadership.com slash elite and join today.

Matt is with us in Richmond, Virginia. Hey, Matt, welcome to the show. How can I help? Hi, Dave. Absolute honor and privilege to be on here with you. So thank you very much. Thank you. I am a part owner of a real estate development group.

So I've got two other partners. We primarily develop multifamily communities from the ground up. and we've grown and scaled a good bit over the past five years or so. We've got about 15 employees, and our top line is about $4 million, give or take. My big question for you is, you know, you've had a huge impact on my life on the personal side as far as how to treat finances and debt. And my question is, how do I implement that conviction, or how would you advise implementing that conviction with debt?

to a growing business, when the business I'm in, you know, by nature, real estate development, the industry is largely dependent on debt. So, you know, when we do projects, you know, we're usually raising money for equity as well as getting a construction loan. And I think that's... What size is your average project? I mean, that's $20 to $40 million really kind of depends, but they're sizable, sizable ground-up construction. Yeah. And so you're raising equity of that $25 million, how much?

Typically 30 to 40 percent. You know, that number's gone up as the cost of construction debt, you know, has gone up as well. Are these construction loans non-recourse? I know the permanence can be non-recourse, but are the construction loans non-recourse? Some are, some personal recourse, which I think that's a big thing we're moving away from. just as we've kind of grown. But just curious, you know, I know you're very experienced in the real estate world as well, but as we're kind of in that industry, that's what we do.

And as we're growing, it just seems like it's just something I wrestle with. You know, what is that? Would you advise, you know, only doing that. To me, there's two layers to it. Okay, there's the personal liability. And then the second is just general risk. Okay. And from a general risk perspective, more debt equals more risk, period.

No debt equals almost no risk. Okay, there's other risks, but not any debt risk. And so there's the risk perspective that obviously if you raised more equity and had a smaller loan to value ratio, then, you know, you had a 30% loan to value ratio instead of a 7%. as an example, your risk goes down because your cash flow goes up, and until you get it finished out because you're doing new projects ground up and actually create cash flow, it takes sometimes two years. Yep.

And so, you know, somebody's eating that cash flow, and the more of that that's equity-based, there's no cash flow problem. So your pro forma eats itself out from the inside, the more highly leveraged you are. Agreed? Yeah. Yeah. depending on, you know, the structure. But yeah, here's.

Yeah, but I mean, something's got to service the freaking debt. And the more debt there is, the more of an alligator you've got until you actually put renters in the thing. Right. So that's one issue is I'm going to move, in general terms, more towards equity than you all have, if I'm you. Because I think you're right on the bubble. You're pretty highly leveraged for a developer.

And how old are you guys? About 34, 35. Yeah, that's the average group, the leaders. Okay. All right. So here's my perspective at 63 from having done real estate since I was, since 1978. Yep, I want to hear this. My perspective is that the highest risk real estate that you can do is resort real estate.

Because it comes and goes based on the economy, and it's the first to come. And the last, I mean, it's the first to go and the last to come back. So if you're building beachfront condos, you're asking to die. Okay? It's the worst. Okay. Long-term play real estate, something that is a basic cash cow warehouses, apartments, office buildings, strip centers, that kind of stuff. Long-term real estate is of the real estate investment side, probably the least risk.

But developers developing residential lots, they are the highest risk except resort. Yep. If you're a developer right now sitting on, you know, 500 lots and you don't have that equity position set and you don't have the cash flow structure, this current slowdown is going to take you down. If you're a residential developer in this current environment that we're in right this second, you're going to see, I've watched developers in my world die. and go out of business metaphorically die faster than anybody else, okay? You're the next level of developer because you're a more sophisticated developer and you're heading towards cash flow and you've got an equity structure in the thing. It's not just simply borrowed money at the bank to cut some streets and sewer lines.

Yep. The cuts and streets and sewer lines, those are the guys who go out of business first, right after the people on the beach do, okay, in a downturn. You guys are right there, though. You're right after them. So you're in a high risk part of the spectrum of real estate investing. And the more you do it successfully, the less your brain will remind you that you're in a high-risk environment. You get satiated.

It's like hitting in Vegas. You know, you hit a couple hands or you hit a couple, the little ball lands on the right square a couple times. You suddenly think you're dead gum genius. And I know because I've done this. You get satiated by it. go, you start believing your own press. So be careful of that. And so if I were in your shoes, that would be the thing that would cause me to move to a higher equity position, take a little less profit per deal, but not be as leveraged. Now, that's a general risk discussion. That's a

suggestion. The second part is the personal liability versus non-recourse paper. I would not touch this with a 10-foot pole of personal liability. You're dealing. with a number that one flip of the switch of bankruptcy, but personally in a heartbeat. Yep. One bad deal, and you're gone, Matt. Everything you've built, everything your house your wife and kids and dog live in, everything's gone with one flip of the switch. I would not put my personal signature on this.

No way, no how. That's got to stop. That's silly. And by the way, it's not required. Especially the more equity you do and the other discussion, the smaller the loan devaluation. is the less they're going to require a signature because they're looking at the asset. It's an asset-based loan rather than a couple of 34-year-olds are going to make good on this freaking $18 million loan. Come on. Right. Kind of follow-up to that. I think one of the struggles is like,

all right, we're in the industry and we're raising that equity. Yeah. That's not all coming from us. That's coming from people who are placing their equity and wanting to get the highest return on their money. Yeah. We're typically the higher, theoretically, the higher leverage you go, which again, we're not going. If it works, the higher leverage it goes, you get better money if it works. When it doesn't work, it's the faster the axe comes down between your E eyes. Right. And would you generally say it like, all right, you've got to look for equity that has a lower risk, lower risk tolerance.

And therefore it's not required. They're not, you may want to deal with different equity partners that aren't as much of a player. Your guys are more willing to roll the dice. but their neck's not on the line if you're signed this personally. Right, right. No, I know. Yeah, so yeah, God, you're scaring me to death. Yeah, I like what you're doing.

I love the business. I've been around that my whole life. You know, I own a bunch of real estate, as you know, and all of mine's paid for. I don't borrow money for any reason ever. That's a different discussion. I want to have a discussion with where you are. I hope to get there. You will.

You can't get there. But your equity players, they want, they first, want their money back whether they believe it or not. They secondly want their return. Return a principle, even for somebody that thinks they're a gambler, is really at the heart of every equity player. And so they want the deal to work. And the deal, you increase the probability of a successful deal, the higher the equity

to the higher equity ratio is. Agreed? Mm-hmm. Yep. Because you don't have the interest eating your butt out from the inside out. You don't have bacteria in the organism. You know, it's just awful. And so that's what you're facing. Cool call, man.

You guys are studs. I love talking to you. Hey, I hope it all goes really great. I would just limit my general risk the way we talked about. And then I 100% would get out of the personal risk business. You've got enough of a track record if you're doing $4 million top line profit to justify, you have enough deal portfolios to justify a non-recourse deal. And I wouldn't put my name on anything else, period.

That'd be the last one right now, over and out. That's what we would do. Hey, man, you're a stud. Thanks for doing it. Thanks for calling. We appreciate you being part of the Entree Leadership podcast. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're so glad you're here.

We love small business people. You got a business with five to 250 people. You're our people, man. If you got 5,000, bless you. your heart. I'm happy for you. Never had 5,000. Sounds like 5,000 opportunities to be pissed off to me, but good luck with that. I'll try to help you if you want some help with it, but I've never done it. If you're in that other range, though, we've got about 1,1100 here. I've done that before, and so I can help you, and we'll talk through what we do, how we treat our folks and

the way we think things ought to be done from a moral ethic and financial standpoint, whatever it is. You call in and we will talk to you. Hey, if you're liking the Entree Leadership podcast, we could use your help. Please leave a five-star review. Those one-star reviews are just stupid. If you hate the show, go listen to somebody else. Why bother? And leave a five-one.

That's dumb. If your mama said, if you ain't got anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all, leave us a five-star review. They help us. Really, it does help the algorithm, push the show out where people see it, hear it, and love it, and or they hate it just like you did. So either way, check it out. Thank you.

And the share, click the share button, click the subscribe button, the follow button, the like button, any of those things, particularly subscribing and following. Those are big, because that signs you up to get the show every time we post it once a week. You can get it. And boom, you're right there. It's a big help to us, really, because it does. It changes the magical internet algorithms, and it pushes the show right up there in podcast land or YouTube land where people will find it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Alan is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Alan, what's up? Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

Sure. How can I help? So I am 26 years old, and last November I started a remodeling and construction business. The first eight months, I was the only employee, and now I've got three employees plus myself. We're on track to do about 120,000 in revenue this year, and we're probably going to triple or do four times that next year just with the growth that we've had. Way to go, man. Thank you. My question is, as I grow into a leader for my guys, I've done. feel really guilty about not being able to be on the job site with them every day.

You know, most of my time now is spent quoting or doing payroll or anything like that. So I just, you know, they're completely competent. I just feel guilty for not doing the physical labor with them. Okay. Well, I think one thing you want to, that you're worried about that's built into that feeling, because I've experienced a similar thing, is that they're going to think you, you're afraid you might come off as you think you're better than them. Exactly.

That's one fee. That's one part of that. It's not the whole thing, but that's part of it. And I think a lot of that is solved by not thinking that and not acting that way. Okay? So like, for instance, you know, I sat, I eat lunch in our lunchroom every day. okay um and i just plop down somewhere and just start talking and you know i get to hear uh last night we were doing we had a catered thing in because we had a uh a live stream here so we're

doing a production at night so a bunch of us working late so the crew just doing all that the guys running all the i mean we got a crew of probably 30 people that are running all the technical stuff and then we got rachel and jade and me and we're the talent right And so we were not eating the three of us in the aristocratic green room alone. We all sat down there together talking. And I got to hear some real nerdy stories like Star Wars stories and stuff and things I had nothing, no interest in whatsoever. But I got to hear them. But I was just hanging out with the guys, you know.

And I was laughing with them and we're cutting up. We're talking about nothing about work. We're talking about nothing that matters because we're talking about Star Wars, for God's sakes, nothing that matters. So, you know what I mean? It's just we're hanging out. And so I sit in the lunchroom every day with the guys and the gals, and a lot of them are doing things that I don't know how to do, but they're working hard.

A lot of them are doing things I do know how to do, and I don't do those things anymore because that's not my job anymore, like this is not your job anymore. So if you just are hanging out with them, make sure you're still just showing up on Friday afternoon at noon and bringing pizza or something. or send the taco truck over there prepaid for everybody working, including the subs, over the job site,

and swing by and see them and just, hey, hang out. Thank you. Thank you. I've got a building project right now going, and the guys working on the project, the subcontractors are not, they don't work for me. They work for the G.C. are Hispanic, so I speak English,

and I don't speak Spanish much, but I'll just go in and just tell them thank you, you know. just, you know, Louis Bueno, it's really nice. Thank you. Grazie. Right.

I try to be as appreciative as I can. Yeah, that's it. And just, you know, understand that. They get that. And then I send the taco truck over there too. And,

you know, all I can do is that. And then I am not, I don't think I'm better than them. And, you know, really, that changes it because your spirit, the way you carry yourself,

where you sit, when you sit down in the lunchroom, the way you walk on to the job site, the way you address someone on the job site, you know, it doesn't come from a stuck up point of view, then they're not going to get that off of you because it's not there. And if they do, it's on them. Right. You know, so, like, I got people that have worked here at times that is like, well, I couldn't talk to you. You were too intimidating. And I'm like, I didn't do anything to be intimidating. I guess you just grew up intimidated. I don't

know. I mean, it's just hanging out. It's just me. I didn't do it. I mean, nobody else was intimidated. I mean, people argue with me all the time around here. So I don't know why you, why you're, but I mean, that's, so a certain point of it is, it's not going to be anything you can control. But part of it is if you'll just be a regular guy and, and you don't, and you won't sacrifice your right to lead by doing that. Because I had dinner last night with the guys at the, the crew at the table, and listen to Star Wars stuff does not mean I lost my ability to be the CEO the next morning. Okay. That nobody was, nobody at the table was confused about that, including me. So, but I was just hanging out. We were just laughing and having fun. And then we came upstairs and

did our work, you know. And so, you know, did an hour's worth of production. That was pretty dead blame intense where everybody had to have their crap together on everything they were doing there for that moment. And then we all clapped and hugged and went home, you know. So, yeah, that, it's just, that helps a lot. But, um, the second thing. thing I had to learn was I reached a point in this business about 20 years ago that I felt like in my prayer time, you know, the still small voice, I felt like God was saying, not audibly, but, but just saying, okay, you need to work on big things, broken things, and new things. Things that are running properly, you need to leave them alone and let them do their job.

And delegate. And I really wasn't micromanaging, but that clarity. helped me. So what do I do all day long? I'm either the talent, like I am right this second on the microphone, or I'm working on new things, big things and broken things. All of my meetings all day long are new, still to this day, 20 years later, new thing, because it's very entrepreneurial. I love it. And I'm good at it. And so new things, big things and broken things. So something screwed up and sideways gets in my office. It lands on me. Buck stops here. Something's brand new. I like birthing this baby, getting it out of the incubator,

getting it up, watching the baby deer walk the first time. I love seeing that stuff, a brand new thing one out. Even if it falls over and crashes, you know, I still want to be there when it happens. I want to see the first thing, see the first steps of the new idea, right? And, you know, the big broken things, all that stuff. So stuff like that, you're going to have your fingers down in it. And it's just when I'm at a table in one of those things in one of those meetings, it's me and five people and we're all on an even playing field and we're arguing which play to call to win the Super Bowl. we're not in there posturing as to how we impress the CEO. That lasts about 13 seconds around here and then you get dissed

because we're all just trying to go, what in the crap? You know, we're just trying to get this thing done. And if you got a better idea than me, fight for it. Or you know something I don't know. Prove it. Do it. Let's go. Game on. But you better be ready to defend it because we're going to push.

Let's go. And you can do all those things and still be one of the guys, so to speak. but be the owner simultaneously. You can still love people. You can still care about people. You can still be their friend, and you can still fire them. I've been all of those things in the last two weeks,

and I'll be them in the next two weeks. So this idea you can't work with friends. Now, I don't want to work with people I'm not friends with. I want to be friends with you. If I'm working with you every day, I want to have a relationship. I mean, I don't want to just be transactional. That's corporate America.

crap this is a small business a family business we don't want to be that way and so and nobody does so if you'll just do all of those i think you're going to be fine um and and then also as a part of that be prepared for the person that occasionally doesn't understand anyway but that's on them if you're doing all this other stuff right and then somebody goes well you know you're too good that that's bull um but i'll give me an example of that okay uh i'm real proud of this example. So Rachel Cruz, my daughter, Ramsey personality, absolutely does not have an ounce of thinks she's better than anybody. She's everybody's friend, easy to get along with. The live events crew that travels with us that does production loves Rachel because she'll do

anything. She'll go pick up the donuts. She'll help you set up the chairs. She laughs. She tells weird stories backstage. You know, we're all just hanging out. She's just that girl, okay? And it's my daughter, I'm proud of her, but she really has not got this thing of, I'm special, you have to treat me different because I'm a Ramsey or you have to treat me different because I'm a personality on the stage. And so, and this has gone on for a decade and a half now. So a while back, after 10 years of her earning respect of her peers that she works with, the live events crew running the sound, running the lights, running the stuff,

we had a contractor running the board on the lighting backstage, and Rachel was on stage doing a thing, and one of our guys is running the board beside him, and he's on the board, and the contractor goes, right, rich girl, you don't know nothing. You've never had a hard day in your life. And my guy taps him on the shoulder and goes, you're out. He goes, what do you mean? He goes, you don't talk about her that way. She's my friend.

You're fired. You're done. and he fired him on the spot. Why? Because that's not who she is. The guy was just, you know, he's just being a butt and he didn't need to be there working for us. And so they fired him.

He goes, you're going to fire me in the middle of the show. He goes, no, I'm firing you right this second. You need to get up and leave our building right this second. You don't talk about her that way. She's my sister. And that's the way the live events crew feels about her. So, I mean, that's what you want right there, Alan. You want to be in that position where when you turn your back, one of your guys,

Some subcontractor goes, well, Alan thinks he's better. Your guy goes, no, he doesn't. Get off our job site. You don't talk about that guy right there like that. He's my guy. And if you did that, then you have nothing to feel guilty about because you've established the relationship of that depth. That's what you're aiming for.

And I'm proud of that story because I'm proud of my team and I'm proud of my daughter for establishing that level of rapport of my team that they felt that way. And I'm also proud that they felt empowered enough to fire the guy they didn't have to ask anybody. Instantaneously, he tapped him on the shoulder and said, hit the door, dude. Now, you're gone. You'll fire me in the middle of the show?

No, I'm firing you. The second, you're gone. Get off my stage, you know? And that's exactly, that's the kind of rapport you want to build. That's where you want to stand. That's how you want to get there. But this whole running a business thing, man, it's not for the feint of heart. And Alan, you're a stud, man.

You're getting it done. I'm proud of you. Very well done. Very well done. Good stuff, guys. All right. Remember, better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. Leaders serve. Leaders are active, not passive. Leaders act on principle, not appearances. This world needs more high-quality leaders,

so choose to lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the Entree Leadership podcast.