EntreLeadership - My Employees Can’t Stand Each Other (It’s Driving Me Nuts)

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

Today, we’ll hear about: •             A business owner dealing with two employees who continually fight  •             A woman trying to protect her family from her bad business decision •             A man frustrated that his team is taking advantage of him •             A young lawyer who’s been offered a partnership at his law firm Next Steps: ·      📞 Have a question for the show? Call 844-944-1070 or send us a message: https://ter.li/ask-us ·      📚 Learn about the EntreLeadership System: https://ter.li/system-p ·      💻 Get EntreLeadership Elite for your business: https://ter.li/elite-p ·      ✉️ Sign up to receive tactical tools, advice and resources in your inbox every week: https://ter.li/enl ·      🏢 Attend EntreLeadership Summit: https://ter.li/summit  ·      🎤 Attend EntreLeadership Master Series: https://ter.li/masterseries  ·      📖 Order Dave’s new book, Build a Business You Love: https://ter.li/b4kru2   Connect With Our Sponsors: ·      💼 Go to Belay Solutions or text ENTRE to 55123 for their free resource! ·      💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more. ·      🧾 Visit Payority for a free consultation! ·      📈 Grab Sales Gravy's free resource to help you hire and lead better. ·      📝 Use code ENTRE15 to get 15% off your first year of Trainual.   Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show💰 George Kamel   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Andre Leadership podcast, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. If you've got a question you want to ask, fill out the form on entreleadership.com slash ask or give us a call at 844-944-1070. That's 844-944-1070. Scott is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Scott. Welcome to the show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to seeing the Leadership Summit as well.

Absolutely. I've got a small dental practice in St. Louis, Missouri. We've got five employees, did about 1.3 million last year. and my question is I have two employees who are great at their roles, but they fight like cats and dogs. They're always at each other, and I'm wondering how to handle that. And, yeah, can help me with that at all. What are they fighting about? Everything.

So I feel like the crux of the issue is they're just two very different people. No, different people. can get along and respect each other. Yeah. So, okay, let me give you a little background on them, if that's okay. One is kind of a classic Southern Bell. She has very strong ideals, very strong morals, and if you don't match up to those ideals, she can be a bit judgmental and kind of look down on you bit. The other employee is a very, she's kind of rough around the edges. She's got, you know, five kids, single mom, crazy tattoos and makeup colors. And so just, I mean, if the two of them saw each other passing on the street, they wouldn't like each other. And there's just kind of an

inherent distrust between them. They're both excellent at what they do. And I, you know, I'm very happy with the performance and their roles, but they just, they, from day one, have not liked each other and just do not get along. Who's been there longer? They started around the same time. One is like a couple months longer than the other, but they both have been with me around two years now. And it's a small office, you know, we've only got five team members. That's, that's tough when two of them aren't getting along.

Okay. Yeah, it is tough. So how long they've been working there? A couple years now. So this has been going on for two years. Yeah. Have you attempted to address it before? Yeah, yeah.

I've had conversations one-on-one with each of them. I've had conversations with both of them. You know, I've really tried to help them get along. And I'm kind of getting to the point where it's like, okay, how much is this my job to help these two adults. Oh, it is your job. It is your job. You're the leader.

Your job's to fire. Exactly. You've got to fire on both if you can't get it straightened out. And that's what I was wondering is like, you know, at what point do I say, okay, it's my job to develop the culture and help. Exactly. You know, this has to be, this has to end. Yeah. Yeah, it's not an option.

Okay, it has to end. And I'm not going to put up with it. If I own the place, I'm not going to put up with it. So, you've been very careful. to draw a line right down the middle of this without laying the blame on one or the other, and yet you have a sense that one of them is more of stirring it up than the other. You think the Southern Bell's stirring it up with passive-aggressive eye rolls? It's both.

I mean, yeah, I mean, I... Yeah, but when she lays that end of that old girl who's got some street time on her, street-wise, that old girl don't put up with it, and she comes back at her hard. Yeah, yeah. But I think the other one's starting it. I think the... They both start it. I've seen them both.

Yeah. I'm right. Okay. Yeah. No, I... Well, I think the deal exists in. I mean, at a minimum, we have to establish this. This ends now. Okay.

Okay. I own this business and in a... place that I own, I don't want people treating each other this way. Yeah. I'm not okay. Yeah. So this is stopping. So I'm going to sit down with the two of them together and say, the next time that you guys go at each other like this, the one that starts at, I'm going to fire them.

Zero tolerance from this point forward. I've talked to you about this and you two are acting like a couple of high school girls and I'm done. Yeah. I'm done. And you're acting like a couple kids in a movie or something, and this ain't a movie, this is your life. You guys, I treat you with respect, you treat me with respect, you're going to treat each other with respect. You don't have to like each other. You don't have to go to dinner together, but you at least have to be kind and reasonable to each other. And this constant bickering is done. Yeah. I'm not going to do it. If I have to fire one of you or both, of you, I will, and I will start again. I am not going to do this. Part of your job description

is to be respectful to the other people that work here. And you don't have to be, you don't have to go out of your way, you don't have to do anything, but you cannot function this way. One of them will say, well, that's just the way I am. Fire them when they say that. Okay. Now, you can pull them aside in a moment. You don't have to do it in front of the other one, but just go, what you're telling me when you say just the way I am is you're telling me you're not willing to abide by what I just said, and so our time is done. I'm so sorry.

Okay. Because it can't fix it if they don't want to fix it. It's just the way I am. I'll give you an example, okay? I had a guy who worked here years and years and years ago, and I really liked the guy. I think I was the only one. he was like the guy on Sesame Street, the grouch, Oscar, Oscar, and he was super politically right-wing, like just to the right of Gingas Khan, right, politically.

And he had to tell everybody about it, and he was real rough and gruff. And I kind of thought he was fun because I grew up with people like that. He didn't bother me a bit. He just real, like you said, kind of had a few miles on him on the street. And he's just gruff, you know, he's a grouch. And the problem was, though, that I end up with the guy who's leading him comes into my office. And he goes, hey, the last three people he has worked with cried. Oh, yeah.

Because he was such a jerk, and two of them were women. You know, I mean, come on. It's like this guy is a jerk, right? Yeah. And so I sat down with him. I said, look, dude, we can't do this anymore. Can't do this anymore. He goes, well, I've been here a long time, and these people just need to get over it.

They need to have thick skin. And I'm like, no, no, they don't. You do. Yeah. Nobody's changing here but you. We all treat each other nice and reasonable. And we may not agree. We may not like each other.

We may not like the way somebody votes. We may not agree about jokes or whatever, all that, whatever. But at least you need to be calm, kind, compassionate when you're dealing with the other people. well, I don't think I can do that. And I said, well, then our time here's done. You're making the decision to fire yourself. I'm telling you the terms under which you get to stay. Yeah.

I'd like you to stay because you and I get along. I like you. But I'm not going to have people in my building crying because of you. Yeah. That's not happening. They don't cry because of me, and they ain't crying because of you. And, you know, so I'm pretty blunt, pretty direct and all that. But nobody in here's crying.

They all know I love them. and they all know we're working together to get the job done. And he goes, well, some of them are just doing some stupid stuff. And I said, I don't disagree with that. I just disagree with how you handled it. Yeah, yeah. So that's where you are. You're going to have to sit down.

And I think one of them is going to say, well, you just have to accept me the way I am. And, you know, I can do that as a person, and we can still be friends, and I can accept you the way you are, but you can't work here anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, one of them's showing a lot more willingness to grow and change already. Which one? The one who's a little more streetwise. Yeah, I go back to my original.

Yeah. Mrs. Judgmental, passive-aggressive, eye-roller is the problem. I may be right. We'll find out, Scott, after this. Stay tuned to the Scott scenario. The Scott, as the world turns, right. And so the soap opera. I got to tell you, man, at times in my building over the years, not lately, not in the last two decades even, but at times I would go home and tell my wife, I think I'm running a

freaking beauty parlor. I mean, these people fight and gossip and carry on. I can't seem to get them to quit, you know? And so I know the frustration you've got. I completely understand it. But once, but my son says this all the time, he reminds me because I taught him this saying and then he uses it on me. He goes, hey, we get in the building what we're willing to tolerate.

And so if we're not willing to tolerate it, then we won't get it in the building anymore because it will leave the building because we won't tolerate it. And so you're getting this because you're tolerating it. And so you've got to clean it up. And here's the thing. When you do, the other three team members will breathe a sigh of relief too

because they're having to come to work. and there's so much electricity in the air that their body tightens up, their shoulder blades tighten up before they walk in because they don't know when the next cat fight is going to be. Exactly, yeah. And they're having to work in this environment too. It's bothering you and you own it. Think if you were trapped there as one of the other team members.

So you are going to get super credibility from the team when you deal with this. Yeah. And I'm just going to sit them both down and go. go, you can either do it together or you can do it separate. I don't care. You've already tried it once, so I don't mind doing it together. Normally, I would at least try separately first. But you've already taken a few runs at this.

So I'm going to sit down and say, ladies, you know, I've been thinking about this and I'm just deeply distressed. I want a place where everybody likes to come to work and feels good and is comfortable. And you're all's constant bickering and fighting. We've talked about it before. I've just reached the end of my rope on it. And I'm not going to do it anymore.

And I want to be very clear with you so that you don't have some kind of expectation. I'm really completely done with this. I considered firing you both today. But instead I decided I'm going to just give you a one last chance for both of you. If one of you starts this crap again, that is the last day you work here. Yeah. And I hate to be that direct. I'm sorry to be that blunt.

but I'm just so frustrated with y'all. You're destroying the quality of all of our lives by going at each other all the time. And we're all tired of it. And so we're not going to do it anymore. God gave me this to run, and I have to be strong enough to run it. So I'm declaring today zero tolerance from this point forward.

And does anyone have any questions or any comments? One of them may quit. That's happened to me before. Once you get that much up in their face and you're that clear, you don't have to raise your voice, you don't have to use cuss words, you don't have to be unkind. I'm not being unkind. I'm just being very, very, very clear. Yeah, it's direct. And you know what?

You might use the jump online with our entree leadership stuff and watch Brendan, our CTO's talk on uncomfortable conversations. And you might use that framework. He says to go into an uncomfortable conversation prepared. I'm doing it more off the cuff up to this point with you on the phone, okay? But he says going completely prepared and sit down with them and say, all right, ladies, no one is losing their job today. This is going to be an uncomfortable conversation, and you make it really short, and you say, do, does anyone have any questions?

I want to be on your team. I want to be here. and I have failed you by allowing this to go on too long. I should have dealt with it immediately, and now I'm having to deal with it two years later. That's my fault. But nevertheless, it's still where we are, and we're still not going to do this anymore.

And it's like, swear to God, it's like having two teenagers in the house and they're trying to kill each other. It's the same stuff. It's crazy. But that happens. It happens with men, it happens with women, happens in office settings,

happens with blue-collar jobs on the job site. This stuff happens all the time. And leadership, if you're strong, you have to step in. And Scott, the lesson you will learn from this is the sooner you nip it in the bud, the easier it is to deal with and the higher the probability of success

of dealing with it. This has gone on so long for two years that I'm pretty sure you're going to lose one of them. You may lose both of them. And I'm okay with that if I'm you, because I'm really not going to work in an environment like that ever again. That's a good question. And you're a good man. You're a kind guy you've been putting up with this crap. And I used to do the same thing. And now I'm not as

kind. Now I just get right to it. I'm kind, but I just don't have any patience for it anymore. I just get right to it. These days, business as usual is anything but tariffs make trade policy a moving target. Supply chains are squeezed and your cash flow is tighter than ever. If your business can't adapt in real time, you're in a world to hurt. That's why you need NetSuite by Oracle, trusted by more than 42,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions. You need to see what's happening, what's stuck, and what's costing you, and how to fix it. NetSuite is the number one cloud-based business management suite because it helps your business make the right decisions fast. It brings accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one place, so you're not left

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slash Ramsey. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. If you're stuck in the day-to-day operations of your business and it feels like there's never enough time for the important work that will actually grow your business, well, you need to come to Entree Leadership Master Series. This conference is where business owners like you come to get a custom growth plan

and learn the tactical strategies that'll make the most of your time and resources. Join us in Frisco, Texas this October 19 through 24. Go to Entreeleadership.com slash master series or click the link in the show notes, and you'll be there before you know it. Michelle is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Michelle. How are you? Great, thank you.

Good. How can we help? So I am the managing member of a multi-member LLC that owns two, restaurants to full-service restaurants. And I am also the operations manager of one of the restaurants. That restaurant is currently functioning. The other one is not. By functioning, you mean it's not open?

Yeah, it's not open. Why did it close? Well, that's part of the story. Okay. We had a couple of partners that started it and then had a falling out and closed it. and one left town and one wanted to divorce from us. And it's a big mess. It's a huge mess.

Anyway. So the only ship that won't sales a partnership. Right, exactly. I know. So I never anticipated being in this position where I am the key person in the business. I was just a small, I was doing little secretarial work. Like that's what my job. But when they fell apart, I had to take over.

So now I'm looking at $375,000 worth of, that was created by this other restaurant, and realizing that if I were to leave, it would all fall apart. And if I were to die, it would become my husband's problem. So I'm trying to figure out. So we have four partners.

All of us are guarantors on the... Including the two dubers that closed the restaurant and took off? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do they have assets? The lawyers are working on that right now. I've got them working on that right now. So we'll get that figured out. But my problem is if I were to, if something were to happen to me,

I don't want my husband to have to deal with this mess. So I'm trying to figure out what the best way to go about creating a secession plan that would help my husband and not benefit those two good news. Buy life insurance on you. Yes, life insurance. And who is the beneficiary? Just my husband? Yeah, yeah.

Your husband has a pile of money. He can use the money as he sees fit to get the, thing wrapped up and closed up and then try to recoup. But I mean, you take a half million dollar policy out on you. That'll pay for some lawyers and pay off the debt. And then he can use the lawyers to try to get some of the money out of all the other three. There's five people, right? Yes. Okay. The other restaurant, is there a piece of real estate involved or just a lease? There is a lease. And those two are actually the signies on the lease, the guarantor is on that lease. So they still have that on their plate. So you're not on the lease?

I am not on the LLC's not on the least the individuals are correct that's awesome yeah let that let that landlord have that okay is there any equipment in there that's yours yes and that's all is there a leasehold lien on it by the landlord yeah but uh no by the bank because on the SBA loan awesome get the equipment and I have been yes we're working on that too that's what the lawyers are doing yeah I mean my profitable is this the one that's running So I did about $800,000 last year I'm looking like I'll be about $900,000 this year. What's a net on that?

Probably about $100,000 net. So, yeah, not great. How much you're going to get out of this equipment? Not much. Not much. I don't think. Yeah, use rest of equipment, yeah. Yeah, no. I mean, we've looked at lots of things.

We're looking at bankruptcy, whatever. You're not bankrupt. You're profitable. No, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, well, with the other business, with the one that's not working. Because all the debt is in that business, really. Oh, you don't, wait a minute.

Well, but it has your name on it. Yes. If you bank, you have to bankrupt personally to get rid of the, it's going to come after you anyway. Yes, exactly. Bankruptcy does not help. Bankruptcy is not going to help at all. No, I know, which is why I don't want to go there.

Okay, so what's your path forward? In terms of what? If you live. Sorry. We figured out what to do if you die. My path forward is to make it as profitable as possible, so pay off as much debt as possible, so I can sell it and have something left over.

That's the path forward. So the... I don't know if that's going to happen. The current ownership of the one you're in is all five of you still? Or one of them got bought out? Yes, no, we've not bought anyone out. Okay, he wanted a divorce, but it's not final. Yeah, he wanted the divorce.

I said, okay, fine, you take part of the debt, we'll take part of the debt. He said, okay, we sent him the papers. He said, no, no, I didn't really mean that. Yeah, it's a mess. Not that part. Yeah, I wanted the other part. Yeah, I wanted everything. I wanted you to give me everything and not have to pay for it.

That was basically his response. Yeah. So, again, we're with the attorneys on that right now. But, yeah, I was just wondering, yes, do I? And what about my partner who had stuck with me? Because he's put a lot of money in. Do I take out a policy that benefits the business for him? so he can buy out my shit.

I mean, like, I just, I don't know how to. Yeah, you could. You could do a buy-sell. I would want a, you know, if you just took out a policy that paid off the debt for him, but there's two other partners that are with you. Right. Correct. Yeah.

Yeah. But, I mean, it would just be for the entity. You could leave the LLC, the money to pay off the debt. And I would also leave your husband some money because you may need to, you know, you know, are you healthy? Yes. How old are you? 50.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, you can go either way. We could either buy a $500,000 policy or you could buy a, you know, $750,000 policy and, you know, and split the beneficiary up and just say there's beneficiary, some to the LLC, some to my husband, and then one of them gets it paid off, right? Okay, yeah. But I would draft, I would draft a body. sell agreement that includes death upon death that, and really all three of you ought to go by

policies if you're going to do that. Yeah. Okay. The three remaining partners, that if any of you die, it pays off the debt for the other two. And they, it gives you the money to buy out, which is not, there's no buyout. It's set free the other one. Because all we're trying to do with your husband is set him free. All we're trying to do with their wives is set them free.

Yeah. Not profit. Okay. Right. And then, of course, the best thing that could happen is if you could get somebody to just give you $350,000 for this. Yes. Take it and run. Would the other two take it, even though they got money in it?

I don't know. Probably not. Okay. I don't know. I mean, they've been so. Their answer, right, that doesn't matter. But they've been what? Well, no.

Well, they just, they've been non-communicative. No, your current good partners. Oh, my, my good partners. Oh, yeah, I think they would. I think they would. All right. Sorry. Yeah.

Okay. So, okay. So I can have multiple beneficiaries. Yeah, or you could just take two policies, either one. Either one's fine. Yeah. It's cheaper to have one, but not much. Yeah.

Save you $100. bucks or something, but the policy fees. But the, yeah, that's if you die. I'm still trying to figure out what your best way forward is. Yeah, you're right. Get it up, get it up where it's making a profit and pay off the debt. The problem is you're paying off the debt for the two duphuses that are gone. You've got to clear them to have sanity because otherwise you're working for them for

free. 100%. Yes, I know that. And, I mean, the last year, I've just really been just trying to get my head on straight. And now that it's on straight, I'm like, why am I supporting these guys? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm putting on an attorney all up in their business where they can't breathe

because all they got is attorneys coming at them from the left and the right. I don't know what else to do since you can't get them to behave. But this is the problem. This is the problem. And the more partners you have, folks, the high. higher the probability of this. She got two good ones, two bad ones. That's hers. She's a run at 50%. If you get that, you're pretty good, actually, overall. But it ain't over yet either. So we'll see how it turns out. Ouch. I'm sorry, Michelle. Sorry y'all are facing this.

Yeah, you've got two big problems, a big pile of debt and some duffus partners. And yeah, you've got to work through both of them to end up prosperous here. And you see what your challenge is. You got it in front of you. Go get them, kiddo. go get them. Thanks for hanging out with us. If you want to help us out here on the Entrae leadership, we would love to have your help. You can do that by clicking the follow button,

the subscribe button, the five-star review. You leave that, that helps. Share the show, let people know we're here. When you do that, it helps a lot. With the algorithms on the Internet, it pushes everything this way. And we deeply appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Chris is in Des Moines. Hey, Chris. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Yeah, I'm a vice president of a general contracting business, and we got 21 employees, and we do about $10 million in revenue per year. Good for you.

I'm wondering how I can manage employee time off that goes beyond the allowed amount of PTO with our expectations to be results oriented. help me what you're talking about why would they want time off beyond PTO well they they take unpaid time off beyond their PTO allotment who said they could do that I guess we didn't say they couldn't oh we want to be generous it's not generous or you can't get your work done because they're not at work sure I mean we give people all kinds of time off around here beyond there are a lot of PTO, but it goes before our HR committee, and the HR committee decides if this is an act of grace.

Like, you know, I've got one lady that's getting cancer treatments right now. Well, she's got a lot of extra time, and it's paid time off. It's not unpaid. I don't do unpaid time off because I want to take a vacation, and I've used up my PTO. You need to be at work. That's why we hired you to get the work done. And so we just don't do that.

I mean, occasionally we do, but it's very rare. So I kind of work when I want to. That's like a part-time job or a contractor or something. And if you want to do that, you need to go work as a part-time job or a contractor somewhere. But here, we hired you for this salary amount and we need the work done. So I just don't want to come to work today. Or we're going on a fishing trip after I used up my PTO. No, that's not really a thing we do here.

Yeah, the PTO is we give three. weeks of PTO. We used to do sick leave and vacation leave, but we didn't want to manage the difference. So you just lumped it all in together. Most people have. We have two. Yeah, we don't have anything except PTO. And we're generous with the PTO. I forget what it is right now, but it's a bunch. And, you know, but if, I don't mind people having time off. That's not the point. But sometimes what we've run into is people don't manage their year very well. And they nickel and dime their way through the PTO and then they look up and go, but I've got a vacation planned. I'm like, well, yeah, I guess you do.

It's going to be a long one. No, I'm kidding. I wouldn't do that. But it's tempting, you know. It's like you think about it. It does go through your mind. Right. Yeah, so I mean, but I think you've got to set your expectations at the higher.

Sure. And if you reset expectations after the whole group's been doing one thing and you go, hey, guys, we've been pretty lax on this and we're not going to be. be anymore because we're not getting our work done because we're a results oriented organization. We can't get our work done if you're not at work. And so you can't just take time off beyond PTO. The only time you can do that is some kind of an emergency situation that is approved and we may approve it to be paid if it's a situation we're extending grace. But we're not going to just take time off. Now there's things under the Family Leave Act that you're required to do that.

That's not what I'm talking about. You have to abide by the law on the Family Leave Act. okay but I'm talking about somebody just says I just really don't want work this week you know that's no I can't really go there so but I think when you res out this has been going on a while it's kind of become part of the culture and when you make an announcement staff meeting this is what we're doing guys it's getting out of control so we're going to have to tighten it up we are now on a pTO only time off with the exception of you get approval from me and I'll give you approval paid or unpaid depending on what situation is but I'll go ahead ahead and forewarn you, we're not doing a bunch of unpaid for miscellaneous stuff.

We're doing unpaid according to FMLA, that's all. And we're doing paid if there's a situation where you've got a problem in your family. And, you know, you just came back off a two-week vacation. And then three weeks later, your grandmother passed away and you want to go to the funeral for two days. I'll help you with that, okay? We're kind about that. And we may send flowers to the funeral home.

We love our people. We're not mean to our people. but I just came off vacation and I think I want another one. You know, no. And I don't really care if I get paid or not. That means I've hired the wrong person. Okay. How much of that do you have out of 21 people?

In 2024, it was four salaried employees. And in 25, I'm anticipating five will go beyond. They're spending too fast. Yeah. Their budget is going. Okay. And do they fall in a particular category of job description? Are they all somethings? Nope. Various different positions within the company, but tends to be younger people. Yeah, that's what we run into. Generational.

That's what we run into. Yeah. And I want to work from home instead, so I'll just quit. And, okay, we work from work. So you'll just have to, I'm sorry about that. But, yeah. And so, yeah, that's one of the areas we're running into it most. And some of it has to do with work ethic. Yeah, and it seems like it's an entitlement to more time off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you think you're French or something, yeah. Plus the six holidays and we give Christmas Eve and Friday after Thanksgiving.

Oh, we do all that. And then we give, you know, extra time at 4th of July. We do extra time on this and that. We're very generous. And then on top of that, we still get people that just don't want to come to work. So, yeah, it doesn't happen much, but it's enough that you can tell I'm somewhat aggravated about it. But the, yeah, like you are. I don't know, four out of 21, do you address the whole company or do you address it to them?

Yeah, we've been trying to be generous. I'm not being generous. I'm saying one off. Pull the four in one at a time and go, not doing this. Sure. Okay. When your time runs out, you're going to have to wait to your renewal date to take time off. Well, I'll just take it unpaid.

No, you don't understand. We don't do unpaid time off anymore. You didn't know that. And then you could just make a gentle, general announcement to the whole company. Hey, guys, manage your PTO carefully because we're not doing any unpaid time off except for family emergencies or FMLAs. And so other than that, you're going to be at work. So y'all need to manage this pretty careful. And then I'd probably have a more detailed one-off conversation with these four.

And we definitely are going to address it in private with the individual. We're definitely going to do that if we see there's a problem or whatever. But I'll tell you, the instances we've had that are not aggravating are ones, and we do extend grace there, like I said, is where they just used up their last PTO. they've got four months left, and then something bad happens in their family. And they do need to go to a funeral or they do need to take, you know, the husband is diagnosed with a brain tumor or something, and they've got to take some time off.

We're going to, that's going to be paid time off as an act of grace from people who love you that happen to also employ you. That's the way that's going to be. That's different than, I'm just sloppy, immature and don't have any work ethic. Right. And if that's the case, you're just not going to be here. because you don't be here anyway much, so it's okay. It's got to go work out for you.

And pretty much once I set that, they'll usually exit and go do some work-from-home thing within about six months. They won't stay. Because I want more flexibility and work-life balance translation. I want to be paid for eight hours from working from home while I really only work about four. That's what the problem with the work from home is the productivity goes off the clean. lift. The number of people that actually work the number of hours they're paid for when they work from home is close to zero. So no one does. They're too busy making a burrito for the dog. I mean, it's just, you know, it's nuts. So anyway, that's the same category of what you're dealing with.

It's the same place you're finding this. So they may need to get one of those jobs if that's the flexibility they're looking for, but I don't have one of those jobs. So I don't have one of those. Well, I want a job that does that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. don't have one of those. I want a job that has, I'm sorry, I don't have one. This is the job I've got. And if you want to be here, this is how we do it. And so if you want to be a we, this is what we do. It's a good question, Chris. I like it. Thanks for letting me discuss it with you. I think you're going to handle it well. You sound like a very solid, mature leader. And I'm probably going to have one-off discussions with each of the four and then a general reset with the whole company, let everybody

know the information. Might even just send out a real brief email. Hey, guys, just be aware. A couple folks had trouble managing their PTO and I want to make sure everybody's on notice that this is where we are and then it's in writing and just put that in the HR file and go on with your life. That's how it works. The whole thing. So good stuff. Hey man. Appreciate you calling. That's good. You're a good guy. You're going to be a great leader. You already are a great leader. You're doing a good job. Very cool. Does leading your team feel like hurting cats, even if your business is winning financially? A misaligned team will create new fires for you to put out every single week. But with Entre Leadership Elite, you'll align your team and hold them accountable so you can

stop hurting cats and start scaling your business. To join Elite, go to Entreeleadership.com slash Elite, or just click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or on podcast. Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Jake is with us in Pittsburgh. Hey, Jake, what's up? Hi, Dave.

How are you today? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I'm an associate attorney at an estate planning law firm. We have 17 members, three attorneys and four staff. We did about $710,000 last year, and we are on pace for about $875 this year. I'm 27, and at the start of this year, I was offered a chance to be a partner at the firm. and so my question is, should I accept that offer of partnership at my firm?

Okay. What do you make it? Salary? Yeah. Salary just got bumped up to 100,000. And you're one of the three lawyers? Yes. The other two guys own it.

So we started with a founder who retired at the start of this year. He started the firm back. in 2010. He's no longer a partner. Right, no longer a partner. And so there's the managing partner, and then there's myself and another associate. Oh, so there's only one guy owns it right now? Right, that's correct. Okay. All right, and he's offering both of you a partnership? That's correct. Okay. And then you've got seven team members that are your overhead. So it's seven including the three of us. Oh, I'm sorry, four team members. Four team members that are overhead, okay, because you guys are the revenue producers.

That's correct. And your salary or your total income last year is 100K? So my total income last year was probably closer to 80. Oh, this year you're going to make 100. Okay. Right. Okay. All right, I'm with you.

So the only, quote, partnership that I have seen work long term are medical partnerships and law firms because it's a different structure of partner in a different process than two guys opening up a heat and air together or electrical or electrical engineering firm together. Those typically don't last 10 years outside of there. So I'm willing to entertain this discussion versus the lady earlier in the show that has five partners in two failing restaurants and that whole thing's a nightmare. So this is quite different. So what are the terms of partnership?

This is where I pick up my shovel and start digging a hole for myself here, Dave, because the terms are not exactly certain right now. We've had verbal discussions, but it comes down to the managing partner doesn't want to require us to buy in to the firm, so he's more or less gifting myself and the other associate 20% equity stake in the firm. and so we're not buying in at all. He's going to give us a seat at the table. And up until recently, we had been discussing certain requirements

as far as the revenue production that each of us would be expected to maintain in order to maintain our seat at the table. We've since gone in a different path in our discussion. As I understand it, it's right now projected to be a an unconditional just sort of gift. So what is the purpose of you being a partner? Well, I think part of the purpose, as it's been explained to me,

is that the managing partner feels a little overwhelmed with the business, and he would like to delegate some of the managerial authority to myself and the other associates. All right. and what is the exit in the event of death, disability, or retirement? Yeah, so we don't really have an articulated vision for that. Do you know someone at another law practice, even if they're not in Pittsburgh, that you could ask for some examples, some best practices on how to structure this?

Yeah, I have some mentors that I've reached out to. I think they will know better than I know. Because what I want to do is find an old law firm that has 40 partners or 20 partners or at least 10. And they've got they've got comings and goings. They've got death, disability, they've got retirement, they've got all kinds of different. And they've got people that they threw out because they weren't working or whatever. And I want to know what their structure looks like because it's survived a while. Right.

Rather than the three of you sitting around and making this up. that scares me. Yeah, especially because this isn't our practice area. And so it kind of feels a little bit out of our depth to be structuring a business organization as estate planners. Oh, you mean that actually business structure is not your practice area? Yeah, that's fine. That's not a big deal. But I mean, if you were a dentist, I'd tell you the same thing.

Let's find somebody that knows how to do this that has had a – that the – the agreement that's in place, the processes that are in place and agreed to, have survived at least a decade. And I want to see their document. I want to see their structure. What's the term sheet, so to speak, of their approach? And then that tells me if I mimic that, I've at least got a shot at this working. Right.

Most law firms, I'm not aware, I don't remember law firms having people buy in any. way. When you make partner, it's usually because you worked your butt off for a period of time, and they want to keep you around, and so they make you partner so that you share in the profits of the law firm and you create your revenue stream as well. And that's typically what, the motivation behind it. And so today you get paid a salary or an hourly or whatever, but they're making a profit on every one of your hours, right? Well, no. Profit is another concern for why I might turn down this opportunity.

So we, like I said, did 7-10 last year we're on pace for about 875 this year. The problem is that when the founding partner retired, the founding partner retired, the managing partner increased payroll across the board. And we're projected right now by my math for about $900,000 as our annual expenses, which is projecting for about a $25,000 loss. So there isn't really any profit in the firm right now. That's kind of a problem. Yeah.

Yeah, you want me to become a 20% owner in something that loses money. Oh, thank you for the gift. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it kind of feels like we've been, when the founding partner wasn't running things by himself, it was sort of a treadmill operational,

treadmill operator type of stage. And then he added somebody else, the current managing partner, to the treadmill with him. And now, the founder left and the managing partner is by himself on the treadmill and he's looking for other people to join on the treadmill and power it. Yeah, that's where you're exactly right.

Yeah, it might be wise then, A, you do need to get some best practices that I can't provide you. I don't have the knowledge as far as how to structure something. B, it might be wise to tap the brakes and let's get the thing profitable. and that's your math let's see his math and you know the three of you sit down together and say okay we're going to work to help you get it profitable when we get it profitable let's revisit the thing because there's no point in making us a 20% owner in a losing endeavor it doesn't do you any good doesn't do us any good because I'm not writing you checks to become an owner I can tell you that for sure

right and so I think you tap the breaks if I think it's wise for him and you let's get this thing up and running. Let's get the wrinkles ironed out after the other guy left, and we've got to get the overhead to match the revenue. Let's all jump in here and create a bunch of revenue, a bunch of billable hours. Let's go to get our work done. And let's get the thing to $1,500,000 and it's making $300,000, and then we got something to talk about. And then if you want to give us a seat at the table, fine. Meantime, if you need a little help with the administrative stuff, I'll throw in. Any hours I got, I'll just help you. And let's just try to get it going, because it's a small operation. Sure.

This is not 60 or 70 people running around the building. I mean, you two lawyers can help him manage the three people, four people. That's not really in a little bit of administrative stuff. So I can take some of that on as just a part of being an employee here. That's fine. And meanwhile, let's go make a little money. And then let's revisit this in a year when we get, if we can get it running and get things moving. And then there's a benefit to it.

You don't have to give me 20% to get a little help with the admin. man. I'll just help you. That's what I would do today. I don't think you got anything here you want. And so there's no point in taking it. It doesn't do any good at all. I wouldn't go that way. So you're a good man. You're thinking this through. Your wise. Your analytical skills, of course, are excellent. And so I think you just, you know, thank him for the generosity and let's go. Let's go from there. So there you go. Hey, folks, remember better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high-quality leaders. So take courage and lead.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us on Andre Leadership.