EntreLeadership - My Team Is Dropping the Ball (I’m Pissed)

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Today, we’ll hear about:  A business owner who’s upset with his team's underperformance   A manager who’s frustrated that he works harder in the family business than his cousins  A young leader seeking advice on transitioning into her new role  Why Dave Ramsey believes the customer is not always right  Next Steps  📞 Have a question for the show? Call 844-944-1070 or send us a message: https://ter.li/ask-us  📚 Learn about the EntreLeadership System: https://ter.li/system-p  💻 Get EntreLeadership Elite for your business: https://ter.li/elite-p  ✉️ Sign up to receive tactical tools, advice and resources in your inbox every week: https://ter.li/enl  🏢 Attend EntreLeadership Summit: https://ter.li/summit   🎤 Attend EntreLeadership Master Series: https://ter.li/masterseries   📖 Preorder Dave’s new book, Build A Business You Love: https://ter.li/4zfr52    Offers From Today's Sponsors  💼 Go to Belay Solutions or text ENTRE to 55123 for their free resource!  💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more.  🧾 Visit Payority for a free consultation!  📝 Use code ENTRE15 to get 15% off your first year of Trainual.    Listen to More From Ramsey Network  🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman  🎙️ The Ramsey Show   💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights  🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show  🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour  💡 The Rachel Cruze Show  💰 George Kamel    Learn more about your ad choices.   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches, right alongside folks just like you. If you want to submit a question, well, you go to Entreeleadership.com slash ask. Type in your question. We'll get back with you and make you a caller here. Or you can call us and leave us a voicemail at 844-944-1070. That's 844-9-44-1070. Craig is with us in Kearney, Nebraska. Hi, Craig. Welcome to the Entree Leadership Podcast. Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my call. You've been a big part of my life over the years, not just money, but also in learning how to run the business the correct way. So I appreciate your

responding to God's call in your life. Thank you, sir. How can we help today? So we're in the landscape industry. I've owned the business for 15 years, worked here for 24. I did not start the business. We have five team members with my wife and myself included right now, and 1.5 million in gross, and we've got a 30% profit margin off that. So we're doing well, but we are stuck on the trailblazer stage right now. I was reading through it before the call, and it's exactly where we're at right now.

My biggest problem is I am very emotionally attached to the business and even the equipment since I've been here from so long. And a lot of the little things just seem to bother me. And the guys are, a lot of them don't understand why they bother me so much. But I know where this ends, you know. And we used to hire just anybody that would work. Now we, now we are actually hiring thoroughbred. So I think I have a little PTSD from the past.

And some of it, I wonder how much. much of it is mental health issues maybe, myself, or how much it is just the chaos that I allow in the business. I'm not sure I understand. You're blowing up over little things at the team, or what are you saying? Sometimes, yeah, I just, we've been, we all, we all know each other really well. We're very comfortable with each other. So sometimes I just, yeah, I just blow up. And when things hit me, surprises, things that shouldn't. be surprises that are and then all of a sudden, you know, give me an example of something you feel like you're overreacting to. Well, an example would be so the equipment, if it doesn't get,

if it has a repair that I didn't know about and nobody told me about it and then we go to use it and need it and it's not ready to go and just like, you know, get mad that it's not ready. It should have been at least reported that it's broken and there's no plan to fix it. So things like that. I call that. That's a reasonable thing to not be happy with. Yeah, for sure. That's operational sloppiness.

I agree. By your team. So, yeah, I think you're demanding excellence. And, hey, crap breaks around here. I need to know about it. That's not a big deal. Listen, if you don't fix it before you tell me, You need to tell me and we'll fix it together, but it needs to be fixed when something breaks.

I can't come up to a machine that doesn't start because three weeks ago you busted it and never bothered to tell anybody. That's not cool. That's a conversation we would have here. Yeah, we have those conversations. I put a board upon our office wall to report any broken equipment, and I'm the only one that seems to use it. And then that makes me even more mad when... Why? Those aren't thoroughbreds then.

those are team members that are not doing what you told them to do one of them's my my 19 year old son has been with us for a while and I don't know if it's a dad and son issue too no it's not a dad and son issue when something breaks put it on the board they didn't put it on the board that's a dumb butt issue that's what I've been thinking myself no I mean really I got a very this is not rocket science here folks if you don't put something on the board when it breaks and you don't at one time that's an accidental thing

if you don't do it two times that's starting to be a pattern if you don't do it three times we're going to talk about whether you work here anymore because this is something i own the place and i told you we're going to do because the operation of equipment is essential to getting our jobs done here yeah and that's not you that's not your mental health it's not your mental health Might be theirs. But no, I mean, this is you saying, this is how the job gets done. Part of you doing your job when you're working here is you put broken equipment on the board. If you fail to do that, you are not doing your job.

Just like you failed to mow the freaking grass, you're not doing the job. Part of your job. And, you know, you don't have to be quite that blunt, but I'm going to be pretty close. And I'm definitely going to do that in private. I'm going to sit down and say, okay, you can say, you can see. sit down with the whole team and go, guys, I've kind of let this go, and it's driving me crazy. So we're going to stop this now. It is now, as of today, part of you doing your job to put broken stuff on the board.

Because we can't have equipment that's not running and get our jobs done. It's essential that equipment gets done. It's not your emotionally attached to the equipment. It's you can't mow grass if the mower doesn't start. Crap. Right. I agree 100%. But for a while there, I was wondering if it was me because it's...

No. Listen, what they're doing is they're mailing it in. When they don't follow through on stuff like that, they're not acting like an owner. They're just over there collecting a check and driving a lawnmower. Instead of doing their extra stuff, which is take care of the lawnmower, put it on the board if the lawnmower's broken. The chainsaw's busted. We've got to get it fit. Whatever it is.

I'm making up stuff here, but put it on the board because if we don't... If I can't stay ahead of the fixes on this, guys, we all are going to have to go home because we're not going to have any profit. You're going to lose your jobs because I'm not going to have any money. Pretend like we got no equipment working because no one ever put anything on the board. You guys would all be at home. Y'all all be working somewhere else. We'd be closed.

Right. This is how staff meeting would sound at Ramsey. I'll be going, guys, this is part of your job as of today. And as of today, if you don't put it on the board, you are not doing your job. I'm going to talk to you about that one-on-one if you don't do your job in the future, meaning you don't put something on the board after I told you to. I'm going to talk to you about that one-on-one. And after that, we're going to talk about it maybe one more time,

and then we're going to talk about whether you work here or not. Because you're going to have to do your job, and part of doing your job is I have to know when the equipment's broken. Or whatever the thing is. I have to know if the customer's pissed off. I have to know you're not running a 75-person operation. There's five freaking people there. They can tell you what's going on.

There ought to be a streamline of communication. Yeah. How do we, what's the first place to start, you think, on that? Just being very blunt, exceedingly blunt. Exactly what I just said. I'm calling a staff meeting in the morning and say, guys, I have let you down because I have not let you realize how frustrated this is. I'm having trouble running this business because y'all aren't doing your job,

and I haven't made it clear what your job is. So let me help you. Let me make clear. what your job is. Part of your job is doing these two, three things that you haven't been doing, whatever they are. One of those putting the equipment, broken equipment on the board. The other one is let me know when a customer's pissed off or let me know if somebody's hurt. You guys have to talk to me. There's only freaking five of you. It's not like I'm hard to get a hold of. You have to let me know what's going on. That is part of your job. It's not merely doing the task of the landscape work.

and if you can't communicate with me in a small situation like we're in, we're not going to be able to grow and move forward. And it's going to be harder for me to give you races. It's going to be harder for me to even keep you. And so, guys, we've got to get on the same page. These are the three things that I'm adding to what doing your job is as of today. Putting equipment on the board is one example, and I would put that out there. And I'm going to go, guys, and I'm going to hold you accountable to that.

And it's not me being mean. it's necessary to operate this business properly for you to do this. And if you can't do it, you're going to have to be somewhere else. That is the definition of a thoroughbred. People that follow through on what the leader says we as a team are doing. This is the Ontario Leadership podcast. Well, if you feel like you're running on empty, if you're leading a business, it's no wonder.

Business can be freaking hard. Doesn't mean you need to let yourself get burned up or burned out. Join me and thousands of small business leaders in Denver next spring to refuel your leadership tank with life-changing insight from all of our speakers. Best-selling author of Good to Great, Jim Collins, one of his rare public speaking appearances will be with us. You don't want to miss seeing Jim. Argument expert Jefferson Fisher and leadership expert John Maxwell are both going. Liz Bo Hannan, the former CEO of Seiko Design, Seth Dillon of the Babylon B, and World Heavyweight Champion George Foreman. Wow, this is a lineup. By the end of

the conference you're going to be refreshed and equipped with new vision for your business. Mark your calendar from May 18 through 21 and get your tickets and join us. Go to Entreeleadership.com slash summit. Reserve your seats right now. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the show notes to reserve your seats. Andrew's with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Andrew. What's going on, man?

How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? in my family's third generation business. We're a manufacturing company. We have around 14 employees, around 6.5 million in revenue.

And I need to figure out how to kind of get my uncles, the owners, to the table to start. Like, they probably should have started many moons ago. How old are they? They are between 66 and 67. Oh, yeah. They're 15 years late. Yes. And it scares me that we haven't started these conversations.

And I feel like this is where a lot of these family transitions sort of fall apart. The only good thing is that I have sort of taken over and become the wheel. Excuse me. Are there any other family members from your generation involved? Yes. Unfortunately, yes. Yes. Unfortunately, yes.

So call it eight years ago, one of the owner's daughters was brought in and she was there to be sort of a salesperson, and she sort of has pivoted to take my dad's role, actually, after he retired. So she does a lot of, she's like a liaison between customers that we outsource jobs to and, you know, the customer. And, you know, she's done well. Another cousin has since been brought in who is, you know,

one daughter from both owners, which is very interesting. She is our HR person at this point. And that is sort of where this starts. starts to feel like it's getting kind of sticky because everything is so up in the air. None of us, you know, and I'm sort of being the plant manager. I'm there 50, 60 hours a week, Saturdays, Sundays, and the two of them, you know, I'm not going to see them on a Saturday or Sunday. If they become the owners, are you going to stay?

That's kind of my decision to make because, you know, do I want to be a one-third owner, but do, you know, 80% of the work. And, you know, I just, I don't know what someone does in the situation. What would happen if all five of you went to dinner, the two uncles and the two ladies and you? And you say, guys, we've got to start talking about this. I cannot function anymore in the unknown. And so we've got to start talking about what your plan is and how we can execute that plan. I'm not trying to take anything away from anybody.

I'm not trying to steal anything. I'm not threatening anybody. but I have to have some relief because I'm working 60 hours a week and I have no idea why I'm doing that. I think we could probably get something hashed out. I think what's happening, though, is for the first time in probably, you know, six or seven years, they have a business that runs on its own, it grows on its own, and they say, to me it seems like it's why even sell it if it's growing, you know, why pass the torch if what I'm doing now is, you know, kicking a can down the road, which I, you know, I'm not a fan of.

That's where my mind goes. You mean, they want to own it and run it just like it is until they're 87? Exactly. Well, that's not an option if I'm you. It's not, no. But that's another thing is do I... So they need to know that. I need to know.

I'm not going to stay here and be merely the plant manager for 20 years. Yeah, exactly. So you need to know that. That's one of my things. So this is why the unknown is not okay. I need to know what you all are. thinking and you need to know what I'm thinking because all five of us today are integral parts of this but it will not it cannot continue exactly the way it is for 20 years because I won't be here

pretty much where my my thoughts were it's just it's it's a tough one and it's uh I can see why this gets and then you can then you can start to have some conversations and let's walk it through let's start okay maybe the two uncles start saying okay let's talk about turning it over to the three of you You say, all right, that's fine. We need to separate ownership from the role at the company. If we're each one-third owners, that's one thing, and we'll be paid for that. But then we get paid in addition to that, in addition to the profits for sharing our one-third, we get paid for our day job.

And I'm working 60 hours, and y'all are working 40. And so our day jobs are different. Okay, I'll give an example. The three Ramsey children, they're not children. My kids, though, grown adults, are the owners of Ramsey all but one percent. You probably heard me say that. My oldest daughter does not work here. She runs our family foundation, but she's one-third owner.

Rachel is a personality. That's a completely different role than president, which is Daniel. They each get paid for their respective jobs wherever they work, doing whatever they do working. And then they are also one-third owners. And you separate those roles from their ownership role. If you try to combine them, it's impossible to make it fair that the plant manager does different things than the HR director. Because the HR director really doesn't need to be there on Saturday. unless something's broken.

So how would you tackle the quote-unquote partnership? Because I know that you are a partnership, only ship won't fail. The fact that my two uncles have been partners for their entire lives, I don't feel like I'll be able to convince them that a partnership would be detrimental. We'd hate each other at Christmas. My preference would be that I buy all of you out. That would be what I would say at the dinner. Okay.

But if you want to talk about if the ladies want to be owners with me, then let's just talk about how that governance works. See, that was my thing. I didn't know if it would be unreasonable. They're not sisters, right? No, they aren't. Okay, so there are three different first cousins then. Exactly.

Yeah. So, I mean, two of you could vote against the other one, and that's how the business could be governed. It'd be pretty simple. Or we agree to have a consensus on major. or things or whatever. But they may not want to be the owner. That, I don't.

I'm not so sure. It seems like they have other interests in life, and it seems like they've sort of been shoehorned into this, but it just seems like... Well, talk about, just say that out loud. Yeah, what almost sounds like, I don't want to say, you know, a backhanded sort of thing to say to them,

but it is the truth. I don't want to... I mean, listen, I don't want to be mean, but I'm here because I really wanted to be here. Sometimes, when I'm looking at you guys, I don't know if you really wanted to be here, or you just kind of came out of obligation to your dad. Yeah. And if it's obligated... If I misread that, just tell me, that's okay.

Say, no, I'm passionate about this place. I want to be here. I want to run it. Or they may look at you and go, I'd love to be free of this place. Okay. I don't know. Yeah. I would just say some awkward, kind, calm, low volume, low octave things at dinner.

Get a private room at dinner and a nice steakhouse and just start having a conversation. And in one night, you're going to learn a lot. Yeah, definitely. I think we've just sort of been putting this off. You've been, everybody sweeping the lump under the rug and you've got a lumpy rug. Very lumpy. Yeah. And just because you haven't talked about it. I'm always amazed that half the crap I dreamed up in my head didn't even true when I get to these things. That is definitely a possibility.

Every one of us has a drama queen living in our brain. I just want to be, like I said, we've never even really, we've only had the discussion once or twice where we said, you know, hey, with the lawyers, we need to get together with the lawyers and figure out how we're going to pass this thing along. And that is the extent of the conversation. I would just say I'm really nervous about the fact that we've not done it. and I'm not okay. I'm not okay with it not being done, and I'm not okay being here 20 years from today

sitting exactly where I'm sitting. As a matter of fact, I won't be here that long doing this. So I need to see, for me to stay in this position, I need to see some progress on this issue, and let's begin talking about it if we want to work. If I buy all you guys out, if we work together, if you felt like you, did you feel like you, would you like to be free of this place?

you know, that kind of stuff. Because here's the thing. I would look at one of the girls that you think is the least committed. And I would say, if I buy out your dad, he's going to have that money to give you when he dies. Would you rather have that money or would you rather have this place? Sometimes people don't even think about that stuff. And, you know, when you put money on the table, sometimes people go, hey, I'm out of here. if they were shoehorned in, as you said, you know.

So that's kind of how I would play this. I think you got a conversation that's not going to be, again, I say, hey, I'm buying the dinner and we're going to get a private room where there's no sound problem. Everybody can hear. We're going to be real kind and clear. And I would go in with three or four bullet points to say, these are things I want, and then you guys tell me what you need from me. And I'll spearhead it.

I'll help move it forward. But sitting with not knowing is not good for our company. It's not good for our customer. We're going to start losing team members, and we're going to start losing customers eventually if they don't see what our plan is. The ones that are counting on us long-term to deliver can't count on us if they don't know what's going on.

I'm here. I'm here to help. How can I move this forward without being a jerk about it? And I think you can. You've got a good spirit about it. about you, Andrew. There's nothing bombastic or crazy or immature or, you know, over the top with you. I think you're in good shape. This is the Ontario Leadership podcast. Video question coming up. Y'all take a peek. I am Alicia Bell, and I'm actually from Franklin, Tennessee, and I work at Grace Works Ministries. Grace Works has been in business 30 years next year, and I've been with the organization

for seven years. We have 65 staff members and over 300 regular volunteers every day. single week. We're a $13 million organization, including cash and in-kind contributions. So my question is, what advice would he give someone who is stepping into the role of CEO when not only I've been there for a really long time, but wanting to lead this ministry into its largest season yet as we finally try to tackle our largest barrier of owning our own and first ever location? That's a really, really good question. Anytime anyone steps into a new leadership role that they weren't in before, at Ramsey, we asked them to go on a listening tour.

A listening tour means you listen. You have two or three questions, like the ones you just asked, Alicia, like, you know, what do you think we're doing right? What do you think we're doing wrong? What's your vision? Where do you think where you need to go? and you sit down with at a minimum your key team members on the team that you're getting ready to start leading for the first time

and go, hey, there's a level of humility with this. There's like, I'm learning how to do this. And as I start putting our new plans in place for where we go at the next stage of this organization, I want to hear from you. What is it you think we ought to be doing? You've probably got some better ideas than I've got. And I want to hear what's right, what's wrong, what's missing, what's confused,

what are our biggest strengths. In her case, she's looking at a building, how important do you think it is, we get a building, those kinds of things. And just ask for them. And here's the thing, even if what they bring up is wacky, at least they are heard.

And you can circle back later and say, okay, here's where we're, you know, I've talked to everybody, pull everybody back together, pull the key leaders back together in a room and go, okay, you know, based on everything, gathered from you guys. It looks like that everyone's pretty much in agreement that this is the

way we're going to go on this thing and this is some stuff we need to work on over here. A couple of you had other suggestions that are out on the edges of that. We're not going to get to those right now. But thank you for your input. So this is where we're headed. And now you guys got to help me get there. What are we got to do next? A little bit of one-on-one time, a little bit of time sitting and just listening goes a long way to build trust. Because the new person, switch moccasins for a second, you've got a new boss. Well, you kind of want to know what the new boss is going to do. You kind of want to know how they think.

And if the first thing they do is come around and ask your opinion about something, that's offering respect and dignity to the team. And you really do need to know the stuff. It's going to be very helpful to you to lead going forward. So a listening to her, which you're not going to, casting vision, you're not telling them what you think. You're asking about three questions, 30 minutes, a cup of coffee, you're writing down the answers, and then you gather everybody back together and say, this is what I found when I talk to all of you. This is where I think we're going.

That fits with kind of what I was hoping to do, and what I was thinking we ought to go do is do with this, and I'd like you guys to help me get there, and I can't do it without you. I've got to have everybody on this team pulling together. What do we need to do for everybody to be comfortable to buy into that because this is going to be our desired future. And then you begin to help them together. We were building a desired future where we're going. And that's a really, really good and healthy place to be. I love that.

Very good question. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for being with us. If you want to help us out, click the follow button or the subscribe button, share the show, tell people about it, or send a link or if you have a share button on your format, use it. Leave us a nice five-star review. All those things help.

Mama said if you hang anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all. Those one-stars, it's just trolling. Makes you look dumb, not me. So, hey, help us out, guys. We appreciate you spreading the word. We know a bunch of you are because we hear about it and we see it in the numbers of people joining us now on this podcast that weren't here before.

Drew is with us in Huntsville. Alabama. Hi, Drew. Welcome to the Entree podcast. What's up? Hey, Dave. Good to talk with you. I'm glad to speak with you and just want to say thank you for the influence you've had in my life and business. Well, thank you. Well, I'm a custom home builder that is still working towards landing my first custom home. I started my company full-time last summer in 2023 doing remodels and additions. So I'm a treadmill operator, and this August I was actually able to hire my first employee. and this year we're going to have completed just about a million dollars in top line revenue. Good for you.

So my question is I've always heard the phrase the customer is always right. No, they're right. But I discovered that recently, actually. I had a situation where my customer was very wrong and, you know, I'm a contractor and they hired me. They were wrong about something I knew I was right about. and, you know, I started thinking about this because they told me, well, I'm right because I'm the customer. And so, you know, I don't know. What's your opinion on the customer is always right?

And how do you handle unreasonable customers while maintaining excellent customer service without letting them walk all over you? Well, in your case, I've been around your world most of my life. my dad was building houses when I was 12 years old and I built several custom homes sharing and I have with builders and so forth in your case you have to set the table properly at the beginning of the relationship for this project to be successful and you to be happy I have to be on time I have to be on budget.

I have to be high quality. And then you're going to walk in here and have a wonderful experience. And so if I do those things, we're there. What I need from you is we're going to have several points in this remodel or in this custom build where there are selections that have to be done. and I need you to do those early in every case. If the selections are early, everything's on time, on budget, I can install what you have picked properly, and you're going to be happy. The second thing is we're going to do a blueprint that details out exactly what you want here.

And we need to work the snot out of this blueprint. before we drive a nail. Because it's really cheap to change things on blueprints. It's very expensive to tear walls out because after I build it, you decide you don't like it. Change orders are super expensive, and they slow the project down dramatically, and they increase your level of frustration and me and my subs frustration. So we're going to have some changes. it's part of a project, but we need to minimize those because, as Dr. Stephen Covey said,

in the seven habits of highly effective people, we need to begin with the end in mind. Now, we're going to manage this project, ladies and gentlemen, with three pieces of paper, the blueprint that we've beat the snot out of, and then we're going to develop a detailed budget that you know exactly what your allowances are for carpet and flooring, exactly what your allowances are for lighting and appliances, and you're going to know exactly the quality of roof we're putting on, and we're going to go through every line item of the budget so that there are no financial surprises or quality surprises.

Before we drive a nail, we're going to have the blueprint that's had the snot beat out of it, we're going to have the budget that's not beat out of it, and then I'm going to run you a spreadsheet showing when each of the subcontractors and suppliers will be on site and showing you exactly what our schedule. is. And so when we break ground, I can show you that nine months and four days later, the trim carpenter will be on site. And we can tell if we're running early on schedule or behind on schedule. We can tell if we've changed something on the blueprint or we have it. And we can tell if we are on budget or not on this. And so I just built a multiplied million dollar house. Okay. I moved in in the

summer. We were 2% off a budget and we were two months early. And my custom home, my custom home builder, my custom home builder was absolutely incredible. My wife and decorator were early on the selections. But I was the one driving some of this and the builder was the one driving some of us. But we had all of the project guidelines for what happiness looks like outlined in detail before we drove a nail. and then every then we can just align to that okay wait a minute we've got some weather problems so we're having trouble getting out of the ground or we've got you know the supply chain's messed up on the windows and that's messing this up we can then we can adjust back and forth and then everyone's not personally angry with the other person okay so you after you're running a project as project

management is what you're doing when you're building and when you do that and I've built I've done that with a you know a 10 million dollar house I've done that with a with a $100 million commercial building. And it's the exact same thing when you're dealing with a huge commercial contractor, architectural firm, engineering firm, the subs that are unbelievably world-class at their trades,

and yet everyone needs to be dancing to the exact same sheet of music, otherwise somebody's pissed off all the time. Now, when you're laying all of that out is when you decide if you want them as a customer. I personally will tell you, and you probably already know this, all your drama is going to come from people that won't do the things I just laid out. If they want to just go, hey, just put me a thing over there,

and I'll be back from California in six months and see it. I'll send you some money. I don't want that guy. Because we are not aligned on what that thing is. You can't have a 10-minute conversation with a yellow pad and fly off and not come back for six months and be anything but pissed. Yeah, they forget a lot of things between... Well, they have no idea what you've been doing during the six months

or what it cost or how much crap, and you had to make decisions for them because they didn't make them. Yeah. Those are nightmare customers. I don't want them. Or if you sit down and just trying to get it on paper, on budget, get the budget done, get the schedule done, but more importantly, get the blueprint done,

you can detect then if these are idiots. I'm not spending six months of my life with this. So you spend time sort of setting up, you set the emotional, yeah, you set the emotional and relational stuff at the front end. And then there's not a problem. And that sort of vets them for you. Yeah, yeah. And I did that in reverse with my builder this last time, my residential builder, I said,

hey, man, look, all I want is sticking to these three pieces of paper. And every time I come over there, I want to see the whole street full of. of cars. I want to see subcontractors crawling over this thing like an an hill all the time so that I know we're at least early or on track on our schedule. If I come over there a week and there's not been anybody over there in a week, I'm going to be pissed. I'll just go ahead of time.

So you need to keep people working. You need to drive the dadgum lane, put the ball in the hoop. And we talked about this in January before we broke ground in May. Mm-hmm. That makes sense? Yes. It can help me a lot. Well, I don't do that or not.

Yeah. And you go, well, you know, I don't, I don't, you know. But most people don't set the thing. You thought you were in the, what you are is you're managing their expectations. Mm-hmm. And everybody's coming to an agreed set of expectations because the secret to happiness is lower expectations, right? So when people don't get what they thought they were going to get is when they're angry. unless they're a headcase, in which case you don't want them anyway.

Sure. But if you'll find out who's a headcase on the front end, and you say, you know what, I got a friend that's in the business. I think you probably ought to go work with them. They do psychological training as well as building. I don't want you. That's right. I don't know what I'm saying.

I just don't want to deal with it. Most people that have a bad experience with their builder is because they did not manage to those three pieces of paper, and they did not set the table on the front end of the experience properly. I'm thinking of some examples where I did that, actually, this past summer, and it caused me a lot of grief. So what's your recommendation? Once you find yourself in that spot, you know, as a business owner or a builder,

how do you work through it and, you know, maintain a professional relationship with this person still? I just go back to the original. discussion. I go back to the original discussion. This is what we said we were going to do. We said we were going to manage these three pieces of paper, and that's exactly what I'm doing. To the extent you're off of these three pieces of paper that we agreed to on the front end, we're going to be our guidance, the budget, the schedule, and the blueprint. To the extent we're off of that, I can't manage the job, and I certainly can't manage you. Yeah. and I'm just going to have a, you know, a conversation with them,

not in front of the subs, not in front of their spouse, but just pull them off the side and go, listen, you know, here's where we are. But the people that I know that hate their builder after it's done are because one of those three things didn't happen. And or their builder didn't manage the decorator. The decorator comes in and decides they are running the show and all of a sudden everything's double the budget. Again, we're not managing to the three things.

But I've had to sit down and, you know, tell the decorator, tell my wife, listen, here's what we all agreed to up front. Decorator was in on the front end. They saw the budget too. It didn't change. And you can't go, you know, well, the light fixture is not going to be in for seven months. Well, that means you pick the wrong light fixture because it doesn't fit our schedule. You'll have to go get a different light fixture. And I told the lighting lady, you know, we're not, no, we're not buying a light fixture.

I'm not going seven months with a bulb up there while I wait on your stuff to deliver. No, you pick a fixture that'll be here on time, or you've picked, by definition, the wrong fixture. Magically, they found the fixture in another city and shipped it in. It was magic. It was amazing. That really happened. Yeah. But that's the kind of crap you deal with every day, right?

It is. It is. And I like where you're going, like, you know, I can control the blueprint, budget, and schedule as a builder. You know, I can't control everything. I can't control the weather. And I can't control a sub. You know, can't control a sub that won't show up, but I can fire him because he's messing up my schedule.

He's messing up my schedule or my budget. The sub's got to help me get the job done. That's right. And I'll just get it, you know, electricians, you know, running around doing something other than being an electrician, apparently, so we're going to have to get a different one, right? Yeah. Whatever it is.

I mean, you know all this stuff. I've seen it for 30 years. It's all the time. Everybody's got some dadgum drama or excuse while they can't get their work done. And your job is hurting cats. That's what you do. And one of the cats happens to be the owner.

So I'll give you an example. If you're going to have disappointing news, bring it early. As soon as you know it, bring it to them. I just heard this. I think I've got a fix for it. But I want you to know this particular thing's up in the air. I can't get this light fixture. And I'm like, oh, okay, I can help.

with that, I'll change the life fixture. I'll help you solve it. Instead of after waiting three months. Yeah, they go, you know, I'm getting ready to do my walkthrough, and I got a dadgum bulb up there. That ain't going to cut it. So bring me, bring me the information, and I'll, you know, so go in and say, listen, I can help solve this. How do you want to work this? Here's a thing that's come up that's messing with one of our three pieces of papers, messing with my schedule, my budget, or my blueprint. You know, because you and I know that on a residential, a blueprint is never 100%. Oh my gosh, yeah.

Because you get up there and the header wall doesn't line up or something, and you've got to the carpenter, y'all are standing up there with a claw hammer scratching your head and figuring out how to make that, you know, that rafter actually line up with that header. You know exactly what I'm talking about, because the architect didn't even think about that weird corner there. And it just, so we got to box that sucker in somehow.

Okay, what are we going to do? You know, we moved a set of stairs on one of ours, on a deck. Because when we actually started putting it in, it looked weird. We're like, okay, just don't put them there, put them over there. Well, that wasn't even a change order. It was a 30-second decision, right? But you didn't know that for the blueprint to our own site, and we called the architect and told him he went,

yeah, I think you're probably right. Okay, good, they're moved. I'm glad you think that. So all that kind of stuff. But it's all this communication, communication, communication, communication, but a baseline, the level that you're snapping, the chalk line to is those three pieces of paper and our original conversation.

Our original conversation is your jobs keep the money coming to me on schedule, keep your selections on schedule. And if you're going to go over on one of these budgets or constantly do change orders, you know you're going to affect the budget, you know you're going to affect the delivery date, and you're going to affect everything. And so I built a house one time for $4.2 million that was huge back in the day. the people across the street built a home slightly smaller.

It took them 18 months longer, and it was 8.6 million. It was smaller because they built it by change order. The change orders were as thick as an old-fashioned phone book when they got done. And so they made it up as they did it. It's super expensive. It's super slow, and everybody's super pissed the whole time. That's the way it works. So you just can't do that, man.

That's how, you know, this is the deal. That's the deal. I love this business. You're in a great business, Drew, by the way, because very few people can do what you and I were just talking about in that business. If you can do that, you're going to be head and shoulders above all your competition. Very cool. Good stuff.

Very, very good stuff. All right, folks, remember better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high-quality leaders, so take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the Entree Leadership Podcast.