EntreLeadership - My Team Won’t Take Our Rules Seriously

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

🎯 Not sure what to do next in your business? Let’s figure it out together. Book a free 30-minute consult call with the EntreLeadership® Team. If every reminder feels like a battle, the problem probably isn’t accountability.  In this episode, John Felkins helps a business owner uncover why his team keeps ignoring key processes and how proactive conversations, not reactive corrections, build a culture where people actually own the standard.   Next Steps: ·      📞 Have a question for the show? Call 844-944-1070 or send us a message. ·      📚 Order Dave’s most recent EntreLeadership book, Build a Business You Love. ·      📧 Get EntreLeadership’s free weekly newsletter: expert advice and practical tips from the same playbook we used to build Ramsey Solutions into a $300 million company. ·      🌎 Attend our world-class leadership conference, EntreLeadership Summit. ·      📝 Stop guessing. Get a plan built for your business and someone who holds you to it. Find out which coaching option is right for you. ·      📈 Take a deep dive into the EntreLeadership System™ at our Master Series event, where our Executive Team shares the exact strategies behind our growth so you can run your business the same way.   Connect With Our Sponsors: ·      Go to Belay Solutions or text ENTRE to 55123 for their free resource! ·       See if Christian Healthcare Ministries Groups are the right fit for your organization. ·      Visit NetSuite today to learn more.   Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you've ever had a team that refuses to do one simple thing, even after you've corrected them a hundred times, this next conversation is for you. Josh Hembray runs a successful heating and air business, but there's one key process his team keeps ignoring. And no matter how many times he addresses it, nothing changes. Josh thinks he has an accountability problem. But today, head coach John Falcons helps him uncover the real reason. Work isn't getting done.

And once Josh sees it, it completely changes how he leads his team. Let's get to it. Well, Josh, thanks for coming and hanging out with us today. It is my absolute pleasure. Thank you for the invitation. Of course. Yeah, this is big fun. Tell me a little bit about your business.

What are you doing? Where are you from? How big is the team? All those things. Yeah, okay, all the fun things. Yeah. Well, I own and operate a heating and air conditioning company in Alabama. Okay.

You can imagine it's hot in Alabama. They need air conditioning. There's a lot of emphasis on the air conditioning and not so much emphasis on the heating. I can imagine that. Yeah. So our company is 57 years old. As you might think, I'm not 57 years old. So it's my skincare routine is what it is.

No, I'm just kidding. It's a legacy business. My grandfather started the company in 1969. Okay. My dad took it over and bought it from his dad in the 80s. I bought it from my dad about 31 days ago. So I am in fresh. I am a fresh owner.

You are newly minted owner. Heating and air. Oh, wow. However, I've been operating it for about the past seven years. Okay. For my dad. Okay. We do about $6.5 million in top line revenue.

Well done. We've got about 25 team members at any given time. Okay. Well, that's fantastic. Now, does dad still work there? So he's trying to phase out as we speak. Okay. When the buyout happened about a month ago, that was kind of his selling off into the sunset.

moments. So not so much anymore. Very cool. Well, what got you interested in hanging out? What do you want to talk about? What's going on? So I think the biggest conundrum that I have in business that I have not figured out how to solve is how do you balance grace with accountability. Okay? So grace comes natural to me. It's really easy for me to give grace to people when they break a process, you know, or don't follow the rules or make a mistake. That's just something that it's a God-given gift I have. However, I found that when I give grace for too long of a period, without some kind of correction point, when it does come time for me to have a correction point,

it doesn't go well. They don't respond well to it because they're so used to me being full of grace and kindness and patience that things kind of get a little tense when I start trying to hold the line to a process. So I'm trying to figure out how do I keep that imbalance? Okay. Mindful I ask you a couple more questions, right? So you said you've been running it for seven years.

Yes, sir. Is the crew that you're leading your crew or your dad's crew? My crew. They're your crew. I've hired the vast majority of them. Okay, okay, fair enough. And the processes that you're talking about holding people to, how well established and documented are those processes?

They are technically documented. Why do you use the word technically? I was hoping you wouldn't ask that. They're technically documented, but they're probably in some drawer collecting dust somewhere. We hadn't gotten them out recently. Okay. So when you sit down with this person and you're having a conversation about not following this process that's in a drawer somewhere. Yeah.

Tell me a little more about how that conversation goes and what the conversation is really about. Okay. Yeah. I spend a lot of time trying to help them understand. understand the why. This helps them see the big picture behind the process. Okay. You know, I'm not so focused on, hey, you need to follow this rule for the sake of following the rule. Okay. I want them to understand why the rule exists. Okay. Because usually the rule or the process exists because something bad happened in the past right that we created the process to correct. Right. Okay. So I spent a lot of time trying to help them understand and that way my hope is they'll be motivated on their own to follow it without me constantly. reminding them on the process.

So that's kind of how the conversation looks. Historically, and maybe this is a mistake I've been making, historically, I've not been somebody that says, hey, this is the rule, follow the rule. Okay. Yeah, I'm not either. Okay. But you have, like you said, the process is there for a reason. Yeah.

I mean, I got me honest with you. I'm kind of allergic to the word rule. Because a rule implies, like, I have to do this thing for no good reason. Yeah. It's just a rule. Yeah. But I'm guessing that's not the case. Like these processes, they're there for a reason.

True? True, absolutely. Do you feel like people are confused or they're not clear on the why behind the process? I think probably, and I think that they just don't understand or value the significance to it. Like they think it's no big deal if we don't follow it. Is the only time following the process gets discussed when it hasn't been followed? Probably. Probably.

Probably. There's that word again, huh? If I had to guess, probably the majority of the time. Yeah. Yeah. So whenever the process comes up, it's already in the context of this is going to be an uncomfortable conversation. Sure.

This isn't going to be fun. Right. Right. How do you think that feels to the team before the conversation even starts? Yeah. I mean, it's already starting out as a negative conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a good point. Yeah. And so I'm already on the defense and they're already on the defense. Yeah. Well, your emotions are heightened, right? Sure. You actually don't want to have that conversation. Not at all. No. I mean, in my world, I want everybody to follow the rules and, you know, the processes all the time, right? Yeah. But I bet that's not even what's going on in your head when you have to have this conversation because you've told me you've had these conversations before. They get heightened. They don't go well. Yeah. So the next at bat, the next time you have to have a hard conversation, what are you remembering? Yeah. The last time. The last time it went poorly. And sometimes I will be able to get through to them for a short period of time.

Right. They'll get back to it, follow the process, and then lax. Yeah. It all falls off the wagon again. That reminds me of a conversation with Armando Lopez, our head of HR. And he talks about you don't want a company culture where the comment is, hey, you don't want to get caught doing that. Yeah. Or you don't want to break the rules.

You want a culture that the comment, the language in the culture is, that's not who we are. That's not how we do it. And that's not going to happen just by reacting to problems. That's going to happen by you getting out in front of all of this and saying, hey, in a moment that's not a problem, in a moment that is not a crisis or one of these hard conversations, and say, hey, y'all, You know, I've noticed I need to talk about this because we never talk about our processes or why we do what we do unless there's a problem. And I don't want it to be like that. Right.

No. I want to talk about what this stuff does for our customer and what this does in terms of us being able to help more people and grow this business. And I'd actually like your questions and I'd like to talk about how we can make these processes better. Doesn't that feel like a different? That's fundamentally different conversation. Fundamentally different conversation. Right. And that is the culture that we strive to have. Right.

At our company. Right. That life-giving positive culture that everybody understands why we're doing what we're doing. Yeah. And I hear your heart in that. Yeah. Yeah. And how it not just benefits our customers, but also I want them to know it protects them.

Yeah. Our team. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, I know we were joking a little earlier. It's hot here today. Right.

Right. And you're in Alabama where it's hot a lot. That's right. I know some of your customers, If that air doesn't work, it can be not just uncomfortable. Oh, yeah. It can be unsafe. Yes, absolutely.

It's a high-stress situation. Yeah. Do you talk to your team about that? We do. We talk a lot about the customer experience. When customers hire us, they're scared, they're stressed, they're oftentimes hot, and they do not want to be spending money on us. It's the last thing that they want to be spending money on.

Right. So we try to talk a lot about, hey, put yourself in the customer's shoes, and remember to be sensitive to those facts. Yeah, yeah. I think that's a great thing and a great way to think about it. Where do you think, like day in and day out, where is the disconnect between that conversation and actually following the process?

The guys get stressed, they try and to cut corners, they just forget, like, where do you think it breaks down? Yeah. I think this is a praise. I'm thankful for this. Most of our processes that are around the customer experience, those get followed. Okay.

I think our team is pretty dialing in on taking care of the customer. Okay, good. But it's the back end side that tends to get lax. It's the things that they might not put much value on because they don't see the significance of it. Okay. For example, they see the significance of taking care of the customer, right? That's an important thing. You know, it's straightforward.

But the back-end paperwork that might not seem so exciting in the moment, but down the road we need a good documentation, that tends to get laxed. Yeah. We'll get right back to our episode, but first, your team is worth every dollar you invest in them. And behind payroll, health care is one of the biggest expenses that businesses have. That's why I want to tell you about Christian Healthcare Ministries Groups Program. It's a faith-based alternative to traditional health insurance, where members help pay each other's medical bills. It's a great option, not only for individuals, but also for small businesses, to care for their people in a way that's effective and affordable. Whether you're a church, a nonprofit, a school, or a family business, many organizations report

saving 30 to 50% compared to traditional health insurance. Of course, the goal isn't just cutting costs. It's being a wise steward of the resources you've been given. CHM has over 700 participating groups, and they offer flexibility for companies of different sizes. So if you're responsible for your organization's health care benefits, contact CHM. One of their representatives will walk you through your options and help determine whether the groups program is a good fit for your specific situation. Go to ch ministries.org slash entree or call 1-800 join CHM. Now let's get back to the episode.

How closely does their compensation connect to what it is that you're wanting them to do? There is some connection. Okay. We do have spiffs in play that that can. get earned if processes are followed or be deducted if processes are not followed and how often do you use those how often do those get inaccurate probably about 50% of the time okay this the following of the processes or the spiffs the spiffs and what percentage of a guy's total comp is the spiff not much it's the minority okay

it's not a lot of dollars in in the grand scheme of things yeah so they get some spiff and then do they get paid some hourly yes the majority they're pay comes from the hourly. What do you think they would do? What do you think their level of attention would be if the amount that they got paid hourly went down and the amount that a job completion getting paid per job, including all of the paperwork, was a much larger percentage of their total comp. Do you think they would do more of the paperwork? I think they sure would. I think they would And also they would find they would find fulfillment in it because they know if they follow these these processes for everyone's benefit then they get to be financially benefit

benefit from it at the end. Yeah, we all went together. Yeah, absolutely. That's good. Yep. I think that some combination there, Josh, of casting the vision around this is this is why this is important. This is what we need to do when it's not a problem.

Yeah. Right? Just because that's going to be heard differently. Yeah. The shields won't be up. Your emotions about the uncomfortableness of that conversation won't be up. And people will just hear it differently. It will land differently. And then tying their comp more tightly to what you need them to do, which is the whole job.

Sure. Right? Which is the whole job. Yeah. I think you'd have to, you couldn't just flip a switch. Comp is touchy. Right? Sure is.

So you would need to look at what guys have been making. Yeah. Put that number in. say, okay, I'm totally making this up. But let's say I bring their salary or their hourly pay down to let's just say only half of what their total comp is. And the other half is per job. And I know this is easy for me to say.

And don't use the numbers I'm saying. It's just the concept. And say to them, look, this is what we're looking for. You're going to get paid when the job is done. And this BIF thing is going to get a lot bigger. And, well, before you say that to them, you should. should kind of run, get a little spreadsheet and make sure that the numbers all work for you. Yes. You know, and you don't have to do anything real fancy kind of simulation, but you need to do

a little homework. Sure. And make sure that it pays out. And then probably show some guys that if we went to this comp model, you could actually make more. Yeah. Because if you did that one extra job or that, you know, the two of you tackled a job together when you got to Friday afternoon instead of knocking off early, you could actually make a few extra bucks. You could actually make a few extra Right. Or what happens sometimes with us is the next day instead of going to a new job, they're having to go back to the original job to finish the paperwork. Right. And all of a sudden there's an efficiency issue. Yes. And they can't move on to the next job to make a whole another set of money. And why would you stay an extra half an hour to do the paperwork? Right.

If you could just forget about that and go to the next job because that's where the money is. That's true. That's right. That makes total sense. Well, it's easy sitting here, right? Yeah. And I appreciate what you said too about the spreadsheet because all this does have to play into our labor budget. Yep. You know, no matter what we do, we are constrained by the labor budget. Yep. But it's just going to be about how do we get to the top of that labor budget. That's right.

Or a little under the top of the labor budget. I don't know if you've heard him or not, but Dave jokes. If I could figure out how to put the front desk receptionist on straight commission, I would do it. And we haven't ever, you know, quite gotten there. But every chance we get, we tie pay to performance. Amen. And we define the performance as what we need. Yes.

And, you know, it sounds like they got half of that equation already with taking care of the customer. But to really be able to have something sustainable that you can scale, it's got to be everything that's involved in the job. So good. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you. I think you got this. I hope so.

We'll talk again. Okay. And I'll let you know how it goes. All right. Sounds good. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you.

If you expect your team to just follow the rules without explaining why the rules matter, they won't. To be unclear is to be unkind. You need to be talking about why you do what you do all the freaking time, not just when someone messes up. That's how you build a team that's 100% bought in to your business as much as you are. If you watch that conversation and thought, I need that kind of help in my business, you're not alone. We have an entire team of coaches here to help you figure out the biggest challenges

you're facing in your business right now. And you can get started with a free 30-minute consultation call by using the link in the description. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, share, and subscribe for more real-world content. I'm your host Dave Ramsey, and this is Entree Leadership.