EntreLeadership - The BEST Interviews and Calls of 2023

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

Today we’ll hear the best interviews and calls from 2023!  •       A father trying to protect his daughter and business from a thieving ex-son-in-law •       What changed Dr. Jordan Peterson’s political views •       A business owner that’s making $30 million this year and still has questions for Dave •       The American Labor Crisis with Mike Rowe Links mentioned in this episode: •       The EntreLeadership Podcast •       Have a question for The EntreLeadership Podcast? Leave a voicemail at 844.944.1070 or submit your question for a chance to be on the show with Dave Ramsey: https://www.entreleadership.com/ask Start growing in business and leadership with the EntreLeadership Newsletter. Sign up to receive tactical tools, advice and resources in your inbox every week: https://bit.ly/3IRWnsL   Support our sponsors: •       NetSuite •       BELAY •       Payority •       Trainual Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: •       EntreLeadership Summit •       EntreLeadership Master Series Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: •       Elite •       Advisory Groups •       Executive Coaching •       Workshops Find out what stage of business you’re in and what you can do to level up with our Stages of Business Assessment. Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices: https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Merry Christmas from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. You're listening to the Entree Leadership Podcast, the show where I take calls from business owners and leaders, just like you, about what it takes to win at any stage of business. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of actual experience in the trenches. Our team has been busy putting together the show's top calls and most popular interviews from 2023, and man, did we have some great ones. This episode is basically our equivalent of a great year-end bonus for all our listeners. First up, a call from John in Raleigh, North Carolina, who needed a hail Mary to save his business from an ex-son-in-law. Whoa, let's take a listen. This is the Ontario Leadership Podcast.

John is next. John is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, John, welcome to the podcast. What's up? My life, and I've turned over my... company to my daughter and son-in-law sold it to them four years ago now and so they have banking payments and I like and I did it with a lawyer locally and I went through the whole process with if you've known beyond survival by Leon Danko I did it with that book and I followed that plan

exactly of God and Guinness with Steve Mansfield so I was all about trying to do that and it was before you had the legacy series. So I didn't have that to fall back on. The contract I signed, long story short, my son-in-law has now left my daughter and now their family, and he's chosen money over the marriage. Contract only stated that, I mean, if they quit making payments because they couldn't make them, it would come back to us, but the payments are easily being made. and so there's no correlation in there of

you got no calls of action. Yeah, you've got nothing you can do. Is that what you're saying? Well, we have to define the company's value. It wasn't predefined in the contract. So if I can do it again, I would have to predefined if you're going to leave my daughter. No, I'm sorry.

What do you mean you didn't define the value? They're paying payments and they don't know on how much? No, the payments are being made. No, no, no. I'm sorry. Did you not have a sale price? I had a sale price from me to them. Yeah.

So what's the value got to do with anything? What do you mean you have to define the value? But now he wants to sit. Oh, so the divorce court is asking for a valuation of the company? Yes, sir. Interesting. Okay. How long have they owned it?

Four years. And three and a half. He left about six months ago. Okay. What's the gross revenue? What a heartbreak. Heartbreak it is. Everything's being destroyed by this butthole.

Oh, my gosh. Okay, well, the problem is, John, that you are not in any position of power. You're just the bank now. I mean, you're a grieving father, but financially, contractually with these people, you're just the bank. And the bank can do nothing as long as it's getting. its payments. And the bank is not involved in the valuation, and the bank is not involved in the liquidation. The bank is not involved in any of that. So he wants his half in cash. That's his negotiation in the divorce. Okay. Has your daughter got a good attorney, like one that's so mean that she

doesn't even like them? Yes. That's the one you want, because I want somebody going after his throat here. So I guess that he has no right to demand the liquidation in the divorced proceeding any more than she has the right to just say no. So I mean, what I would do is just say no. We're not going to give you your half. You're a half owner and you'll get half the proceeds if profits are distributed. If they're distributed, this is your daughter talking, not you, because you're just the bank. Okay? So we're advising her right now. but if I'm negotiating with him, I would go, no, I'm not going to pay you. I'm not going to buy you out. You're just half owner, and who's the president of the company?

Okay, so she can fire him. He's out of the building, right? Now, he's been gone for six months. Yeah, so that's soft. That's soft. So she's running the business, and she will make the decision about any profit distributions. If profits are distributed, he'll get his half of the profits as long as she wants to that. At some point she may want to offer him a buyout, but today's not advantageous to her, so no, I'm not going to buy you out. Now, do you have any money? How much? Okay, and what's this, what's this net profit on this thing look like? Okay, so we got a $10 million company in valuation, not just in revenues, okay, give or take. So half of it's five.

So what I'm going to starve him out? Because his morally, ethically, his rights to this are zero as far as I'm concerned. Are you agreeing to that? Yeah, so I'm just going to starve him out. He gets nothing. So here's the way that looks, okay? You just got to work with the attorneys on this. I'm not one, but this is the strategy I would employ.

That, no, we're not going to buy you out. You'll get half the profit distributions if there are profit distributions. And then my strategy will be that there's not going to be. any profit distributions, your daughter is going to take a nice salary, and we're going to reinvest all the profits to grow the company. There's not going to be profit distribution, so he's not going to get anything. Yeah. And once he sits there for a little while with nothing, then I'll offer him like a million dollars

for his half. That's probably worth five right now. Okay. But I want him a little hungry. Right now he's confused and thinks he's in power. That is correct. I want to correct his confusion first. Gotcha.

Gotcha. Yeah, that's all the way I know how to play this. Or somehow beat him down or beat him up. I mean, if you, this thing is worth, if it's net profit taxable income of $2.5 million, at a 25% cap rate, 25% rate of return, it's worth fourfold or about $10 million. You're following me on my valuation? Yes, sir. Okay, it's a cap rate approach to valuation, but it's pretty close.

And if that's the case, if you could buy his half out for a million, I'd do it today. But I don't think Goober Boy is going to settle for that right now. Well, he stayed unemployed and had another woman. It doesn't have any money. I want him to sit with no money for a while. At least if you can buy it for a million dollars, it's a deal for you. Now, you own half again, and your daughter owns the other half. And then let me tell you what I would do.

I would buy 1% of hers from her, and you're 51% of, owner and I'd get this ship righted and reset this thing and reset the terms in which it is resold to her later and forgive the loan because you're now the 51% owner you're the majority shareholder forgive the loan collapse the loan back into the company and because it's not worth anything anyway she's got to pay it and you don't want that position you don't want her in that position and then you guys get this thing up and either resell it or resell it back to her with completely different terms and different default clauses in the, you know, in the process. So our stuff is done in trust, and it states that only people that are blood, Ramses,

can own it as a protection against divorces. There you go. Yeah, it's a little late. Sorry about that. But that's your future gig, right? Let's pretend five years down the road. She's gotten remarried. The guy's a great guy, all that.

We're not going to do this again. We're going to sell it to her. and the covenants, the warranties, the trust documents, however you put the thing together, are going to state blood only can own stock. And that just, there's no, there's, it's against the, the shareholder agreement for anybody outside the family to be an owner then, the blood family. And so that keeps in-laws from getting confused. They think they're outlaws.

So contract, because divorce is always, it doesn't matter. I mean, you know, divorce can, I guarantee you, divorce is not going to vote. violate this trust I wrote. I'll guarantee you. I mean, I've spent a bazillion. If it does, I'm going to kill a lawyer, but because I spent so much money with them. I'm telling you, this stuff is iron. We've gone over it and over it and over it and over it again, because we didn't have our kids do pre-nups, and they're, they're owners of this company now. It's that good. It's that good. But it's a trust. The LLC stock is held in the children's trust, and the only participants in the children's trust is the stinking children, not their in-laws.

And so if one of my grandkids becomes an inheritance of that, it goes to them. They get married. Have to be a Ramsey blood. Got to check the old DNA, or you're not in there, baby. Anyway, before we get there, you've got to go back and clean up all this mess, and you've got some negotiating to do among tears. So how long has this been going on that boy child's out there sleeping around and left your daughter? It looks like it goes back to 2018.

I mean, how long has he been out of the building over there? It's been six years. Okay. So about nine months. You all been going through hell, man. I'm so sorry. It's such a heartbreak because you go from anger to tears to anger to tears. And you got this whole business thing all twisted up in there too.

And it just breaks your heart. And you go, God, I wish out. God, I wish out. God, I wish out. Well, you know, I think you get a deal if you drop three quarters of a million dollars on the table. and buy him out for cash. But if he wants to be greedy, we can also set it up where he gets nothing long enough that his greed goes away.

Or the number on his greed changes, whatever we want to call that. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you loud and clear. Yep, you're right. Kids involved and everything. So it's just, that's ugly. And I'm so sorry.

How old is your daughter? She's 30. And you and I are the same age. I mean, when I read your book, I'm that guy. So it's fun. Business is fun. There's always something good to look forward to, and I'm a classic trying to outsell my stupidity all the time as you put it.

So we'll keep going. This one is a hard one, but that is the way it is. I like what you're saying. Well, good luck with it, brother. I don't mind in these situations. If you're going to pick a fight, our goal is not to pick a fight,

but if you're going to pick one, we're going to win it. and that's that's you know take him to ground he brought this on himself take him to ground that's what i would do um some of y'all out there think i need to be nicer well tried divorce in my daughter and see how that works for you man you hate to hear stories like that john wherever you are right now we hope you and your daughter are winning the fight against the boy child thanks for trusting us to hell. A lot of people learned how to avoid ending up in the same situation because you were willing to call in. And that's one of the incredible benefits of this podcast. Next up, an interview with author and psychologist Dr. Jordan Peterson telling us about the moment he realized he didn't know

anything and how it changed his political thinking. Well, check this out. I'll tell you a story about what changed my political thinking when I was very young. When I was 16, 13 to 16, I worked with a socialist party in the province of Alberta, which is where I grew up. And I was fortunate enough to know the leader of the socialist party in my province, home province of Alberta, who was the only opposition member of parliament in the whole province. It was like 36 conservatives and one socialist. And the only reason the people in my home district voted for this man was because he was a good man. He was a labor leader, and most of the socialists at that time in Canada were former labor leaders.

And they did stand at least in part for the genuine interests of the working class. Anyways, I worked with them for a few years, and I got disenchanted in part because when I went to the conventions of the party, I met the radical types, and they were the same as they are now. And like, they just, I thought, what the hell's up with you people? You're just bitter and resentful. Like, you claim to be caring for the poor, but that's just a lie. You're just bitter and resentful. And you think morality consists of praying in public, right? It's like you hold a sign that says, I'm against poverty.

It's like, well, who the hell isn't against poverty? You know, that's not a, I'm for poverty. It's like, you know, more homeless. So, because it makes me feel better by comparison. It's like, nobody thinks that. Nobody thinks that. And so that set up a cognitive dissonance in my imagination. I thought, well, if this end of the political distribution has the moral upper hand,

why the hell is it producing all these resentful activists? And now, well, that's a question that we're asking ourselves in spades now. But then I was nominated. I served on the board of governors of this little college that I went to, Grand Prairie Regional College. And all of the people who were on the board were people, I presume, people like you. They were all owners of small businesses, and they'd been successful. And the towns that I grew up in in northern Alberta were like 50 years old.

You know, they'd just been scraped out of the prairie. It was the last of the frontier. And everyone there was an immigrant. So most of the people who had started these small businessmen were immigrants who came there with nothing and built something. And even though I didn't share their political views, I found them individually admirable. And I also found that the same applied to the small businessman that I worked for at that point. You know, I thought, well, you've actually done something with your life. you know, and you're, there's a solidity there, a productive solidity.

Exactly. And so it was at that point that I realized they didn't know anything and just stopped working on the political front altogether. I decided at that point to become a psychologist rather than a lawyer or a politician, which is kind of where I was heading it at that point in my life. And I realized that it was the people who had built productively that had the moral upper hand. They might not have been very good at expressing their ethos intellectually or explicitly, but in terms of their character, they had established a victory. And I think this is actually the problem on the conservative front, broadly across the world, is that they're people of solid character, but they're not good at articulating the foundations of their ethos.

And then when the radical leftists come along and take them apart ethically, they don't know what to do. They throw up their hands. Because, I mean, think about it this way. someone comes up to you on the street and says, justify marriage. And you think, well, I thought we sorted that out like 25,000 years ago. You don't know what to say. You have no idea how justify marriage.

You know, a lot of the things we do in our life that are ethical, we do, we act out, we don't think through. Like, I presume the vast majority of you put up a Christmas tree. Well, you have no idea why. You know, like, and if someone answered, apologist came over to your house and said, well, why do you put up a Christmas tree? You'd say, well, everyone does it. Something like that. It's beautiful and it's part of a true. But you have no idea why. I mean, there are reasons for the Christmas tree. That's a place where you put the light

that shines in the darkness at the darkest time of the year. And that light signifies, in the Christian tradition, that light signifies Christ, and that signifies the service of the highest to the lowest. And you're acting that out, but you don't know it. And when you're married, you're acting out a very deep ethos as well. And you don't know what it is. But everyone's agreed on it. And a lot of your conservative virtues are things that everybody's already agreed on. And so when an intellectual comes along, it says, justify that. You don't know what the hell to say. And then you can be picked apart. You know, well, isn't your ideal of marriage, heterosexual, long-term, stable, child-centered couples? Isn't that exclusionary? And isn't the exclusion wrong? Well, you think,

Well, exclusion, yeah, well, that's wrong. And, well, I don't know. And then you're guilty. And it isn't because you're wrong. It's just that you don't know how to articulate that traditional value. And, well, and that's a huge problem. That's a huge problem. But that doesn't mean you're wrong.

And the same thing applies on the profit front. It's like it's hard to articulate why that's acceptable. Also because it does seem like if you're generating profit, it's obviously the case that that can be used by you for narrowing. personal reasons, right? You can buy a yacht and fill it with supermodels and cocaine if you want. And that, but people don't. And most wealthy people in the United States, by the way, are like you. They're the owners of not immense businesses, you know, small to moderate businesses, and they're very conservative in their consumerist habits and careful in their distribution of their resources.

They're not like Hollywood hedonists, you know, or the Wall Street psychopath types. Not that all Wall Street people are psychopath types, but you know the kind that are parodied in movies. You know, your people who are very careful with your capital and you live moderately. That's also a sign of that ethos, but it's hard for conservatives to articulate that. It doesn't mean you're wrong. It doesn't mean that you should be guilty. One of the ways you combat those kinds of things if you don't have, number one, don't have to have an argument, you just have to be right and just keep moving.

Yeah. But I don't have to defend. I don't have to enter into that conversation. Like, yeah, you're a nut and I'm moving on. Yeah, well, partly we're in a situation where you probably do have to learn to articulate it, because what's happening is that that central ethos, that traditional ethos, even voluntary exchange, it's under such vicious attack that if you don't learn to defend it and articulate it, it's going to be taken from you.

And that probably means, I suspect that means that each of you is going to have to think to some degree about how to involve yourself in at least the local political landscape. It's like, you know what the school boards are doing, or maybe you don't, and you should. I mean, these low-level political positions have been occupied by radical types, and the only real solution to that is to take them away and occupy them with people who have some sense. The problem is you probably have something better to do. But it doesn't matter because at the moment, if you abdicate that responsibility, then the radicals are going to take it, and then they're going to take what you have.

That already happened in the universities. We abdicated our responsibility as professors, and the radicals took the institutions from us. And as far as I'm concerned, they're gone. We're not getting them back. They're done. So what happened in the universities is the administration took over the faculty. The faculty retreated 3,000. steps, the administration took over the faculty, and then the DEI radicals took over the administration.

And the same thing's happening on the corporate front, and the way that you're enabling that, I don't know how relevant this is to everybody in the room, but you hire an HR person, you hire DEI consultant, you start playing that game maybe to keep the critics off your back, they will take you out. Don't do that. That's a big mistake. You think, well, you know, we have to play the public relations game. We have to look like, we're appeasing the radicals. You can't appease the snake. It's a big mistake.

Well, in true Jordan Peterson fashion, that conversation gave our minds something to chew on, didn't it? I love getting to sit down with him and hear his thoughts. Such a brilliant guy. And speaking of brilliant guys, this next call came in from one of our listeners in Atlanta, Georgia. He's a complete stud. Hey, here's Stanton telling us his $30 million story.

Stanton is with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Stanton, I understand you've got to brag. By the way, folks, we invite people to call in and brag, because there's very few places in America today. You can brag about success, and you should brag about success because it inspires other people to do it. So Stanton, tell me your story, man. Yes, sir.

Really excited to be on the phone today. I love the podcast. Yeah, I started my general contractor, Atlanta, Georgia, Started the business about four years ago. And last year we did just over 16 million in sales, and I made a net profit at 1.5 million. And then this year we're on pace to do almost 30 million. Wow! Same kind of margins.

Yes, sir. Yeah, we'll be probably in the 2.5 range this year. I hate it when that happens. Way to go, man. How old are you? I am just turned 37. man, you are killing it. So you're a G.C.

What are you building? Residential commercial? No, it's all commercial. We do a lot of K through 12 renovations, additions, municipal work, and also like self-storage facilities. Okay. Very cool. Good for you.

Good for you. So you're going to do like $35, $36 million this year and make $2.5 million net profit? Yes, sir. And doubled it in one year. And what were you the year before you did $16 million? We did just over 11. So we did 2, 7, 11, 16, and then we'll be over 30 this year. Okay.

Did you grow up in the business? Yeah, I worked in construction through college. I studied civil engineering. And then that's really kind of where I got introduced to you in college. I started the baby steps. When I was in college, I had $20,000 in student loan when I ran into you and I was all right, I got to get rid of that. So after I graduated within the first year, I got that paid off.

And then been debt free. Then we got a house. I tacked the house, got the house paid off. And I have four kids, so a lot of people looked at me with four eyes. And I said I was quitting my job to start my own business. But now it's kind of being debt free and not having any debt was allowed me to do that. And I've always been entrepreneur minded and wanted to do that. So I started the company and it's been going well.

So you started, because you'd followed us on the financial stuff, you started following the Entry Leadership Principles too then. Oh, yeah, I read the book a couple years before I started the company. And so much I learned from the book, I've been following the podcast ever since. And I really love the first episode I heard with you doing the podcast. I mean, I loved it with all the different hosts, but really been enjoying it with you. But, yeah, so many stuff I've learned from, you know, just from the book. And, you know, I think probably the biggest thing that I would say to our success that I learned from the book is just like how, and one of the reasons I really wanted to start the company because the last coming I worked for it and do this, but was just really, you know, the people are what make this thing happen and really caring about people taking care of the people.

We've had people have been out sick and we paid them through that. And it's really seen returns because we have such a loyal team here. but it's on board and helping me grow this thing. Yeah. It's amazing when you treat other people like you'd want to be treated. Word gets out. Yeah, yes, sir. And all of a sudden, good people say, you know, that's a good place to work over there.

They love their people. They take care of them. And then you can attract talent that way. When you crap on everybody like corporate America does, and they wonder why they can't get good people. Well, that's why, because they know they're going to get crapped on. And so absolutely, man. You're killing it.

I'm so proud of you. very well done sir very well i'll also have a question for us so i have three key leaders now on my team operations manager senior project manager and then uh pre-construction manager in the next few years i want to you know kind of point one of those guys to be my direct report and kind of have everyone filter down from there and just wondering what advice you would have to kind of build that person up into that position as over the next couple years to be able to handle that. Yeah, I mean, it's just developing bench depth is what it amounts to and developing your bench to where they can do that. The big thing is anytime you have the opportunity to pull them aside and

mentor them on something beyond their current job on an issue that would be something you would deal with, just go, hey, I just want to take a second and show you. This is the way I'm I'm going to handle this thing over here. I know it doesn't apply to you today, but I want to just see how I'm going to handle this thing, or let them sit in the meeting while you're handling it even. And then you can start to telegraph to the team by handing a few of those things to them

before they're given the title. And then it's kind of like the best succession plans in general. In your case, the best promotion plans are gradual. And then when you make the announcement, so-and-so is going to be the new vice president. of operations, he'll report to me. The rest of the company is going to, you know, follow up through him or whatever title you give them.

Then when you make that announcement, no one's going to get whiplash. They're going to go, oh, I kind of thought he already was. Yeah. Because you've been kind of handing stuff over there, dropping stuff on him. He's been picking that stuff up with the idea that he started to look like that position already, even before you made the formal announcement. And then he will, you know, obviously he will have had the people skills to have earned the trust of the team before you do that.

And then there's no political whiplash with the guy, you know, the other guy that's similar position to him that thought he was going to get it because he didn't think he was going to get it. And he'll already, if that guy's there, he will have already exited. Once he sees he's not going to get it by the way you're treating guy number one, the other guy will bail. And you'll have to replace that position.

If he's a guy that wants that role and he sees he's not going to get it, that you're going to lose him probably. But that'll be part of your process too. So very, very well done, Stanton. So gets out of debt from a civil engineering degree using the financial peace principles, plugs into entree leadership, treat people like you want to be treated, grows a business in just a series of years to last year being 16, this year being $35 million.

I love this country. I love what somebody can, like Stanton, can do. Man, what a stud. Way to go, man. Way to go. That's just impressive. Well, I see why you guys love that one. Somebody out there listening or watching on YouTube is going to be the next Stanton.

Isn't that awesome? Hey, whoever you are, I can't wait to hear your brag story. You better call us in 2024. If you want to be on the show, call and leave a voicemail at 844-944-1070 or submit your question to entreleadership.com. Ask. And the team will reach out to get you set up for a call on this show. Hey, next up, another great interview. This one with our friend Mike Rowe about the unholy mess of a labor crisis that we've got. You don't want to miss anything Mike Rowe has to say. Take a listen.

It seems like overnight, that which was virtuous has become a vice. And almost vice versa, in some ways. Work ethic, for instance, is officially a bad word in a lot of corporate handbooks now, ambition, drive, delayed gratification. All the stuff that used to be baked into the basic Boy Scout oath has become, oh, what's the word? Problematic, right? And so the, you know, politically incorrect, yeah. Well, I mean, listen, that guy you just talked to, Anthony, right? I mean, he's got questions. Those questions are always relevant.

And you're great at answering them on a micro level, right? Like, what do you do from a leadership standpoint? How can you help train your people? But what you and I are talking about now is what happens when that guy, Anthony, you know, he's still got to run his business. But the pool from which he can recruit went from this big to something about a third of the size. We got 7.2 million able-bodied men in prime working age, sitting out the workforce. That's never happened in peacetime. By sitting out, we mean, they are not counted in the unemployment statistics because they're not trying to get a job. That's right. That's the Nick

Eberstadt number, right? That's right. And that's really, I mean, I've been singing out of this hymn book for 15 years since my foundation started, and I always kind of lead into it a little bit more every year. But this year is different. This year coming out of the lockdowns, guys like Anthony, and you're right, he's heroic. Anybody who's trying to run a small business today and recruit in this environment is dealing with Herculean obstacles. So I've got nothing but sympathy for that guy and nothing but worry and maybe a little bit of contempt for this giant chunk of our workforce that has simply abdicated. They, they're just sitting out, Dave. And how they're making ends meat without working, I guess that's a conversation for another time, but it's, it's certainly part of it.

Yep. Yep. And, you know, helping them not make those ends meet unless they get up off their butts again as a conversation, too. You know, those that don't work, don't let them eat, the good book says. And that's the good book, by the way. And so. Unfortunately, consequences is one of those words we're not really allowed to talk about anymore. Because it wouldn't be fair for things to, you know, cause and effect. That's not fair either, I suppose. We could take it all over back to parenting, if you want. My granddaughter, Rachel's daughter, we were at the lakehouse last summer, and she's a little too articulate for a four-year-old.

But I said, where's your cousin? And she said, he's inside. And I said, what's he doing? He's with his dad. What are they doing? he's experiencing consequences. I said, have you experienced consequences? And she said, yes, Papa, Dave, I have.

At which point I was very proud of both of my daughters and sons-in-law for helping their children experience consequences because that means that they can actually understand cause and effect. It's good parenting. You and I are old enough. You and I bet a lot of your listeners are too to remember a game show once upon a time called truth or consequences. And I always thought it should have been truth and consequences, but call it what you will. We're kind of short on both nowadays. Exactly.

And I think – Mike and I have been talking about this, and Nick Eberstadt that brought up the 7.2 million men who aren't unemployed because they're not wanting to be employed, so they're not counted in the unemployment numbers. You know, I read a book by Easter, a Pulitzer Prize guy called Comfort Christ. My friend Craig Groschell, one of the top pastors in America, has written a book on personal growth where he talks about making hard right decisions, do the right things, do the hard things the right way, is part of being a high-quality leader. Ken Coleman that talks about work on our team here at Ramsey is just going bananas about this whole work ethic and the quiet quitting thing and this race to mediocrity thing. Dr. John Deloney on our team is talking about the mental health side of this because when you don't work and accomplish things, it causes despair. It causes a loss of dignity.

And so there's a mental health application that goes with this. And when you tell a whole segment of the population that they're not essential and then you see suicides statistics go up, hello, that goes with the territory too. So all of this has been stewing in a gumbo that Mike Roe and I have been stirring. and so we're going to do an event called America's Labor Crisis, and we're going to have those five guys on with Mike and I. We're going to be interviewing them and adding commentary as we go along. Thursday, May the 4th. The stream is for your small business people. It's completely free.

We just want to create the conversation and stir up a ruckus because we want people to look forward to work ethic. calluses on your brain or your hands are good. Learning to persevere and have grit is good. Teaching your kids to do that is good. Sitting on your butt in your mother's basement playing Halo when your 28 is not good. And we're going to say these things out loud, very loudly, and very in your face. Mike's always a little more articulate and kind than I am, but I'm here to add color. So there we go.

And we'll be doing this from the Ramsey Live Event Center on May the 4th, and we want you to come. go to entreleadership.com slash labor crisis, and you can sign up to watch the live stream completely free. And that's where all this is headed, is that we've been kind of, there's like different buckets of this stuff. You know, the quiet quitting thing, right? And then there's the bucket of the unemployed.

There's a parenting bucket almost in this. And then there's the leadership bucket. You know, we've got to be leaders that people want, that inspire people instead of, instead of cracking a whip on folk. And there's the cost of education, right? I mean, you can't talk about vocation without talking about education.

We're going to have to talk about $1.7 trillion in student loans on the books. We've got to talk about 11.5 million open jobs right now, most of which don't require a four-year degree. They require the training that we're talking about right now. So, yeah, it's an unholy bull you base of bad news and dots that don't want to be connected but we must tell the truth,

or the consequences will continue to evade us. And that's why I agreed to do this thing with you. Plus, it's always good to see you, and I know there's going to be some decent bourbon around. That and possibly a cigar. So there you go. That was our excuse. This whole thing is an excuse to do that.

So we'll even probably get some of your grandpaws out there, right? That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Carl Noble would be honored. That's good stuff. Look, man, I appreciate you putting it together. The country needs to have the conversation, period. And, you know, we're all pushing the rock up the hill as best we can. Sometimes it feels Sisyphian.

Sometimes it feels quixotic. But, look, we're all in it together. And if our workforce isn't balanced, if we've got our thumb on the scale, if we're elevating certain jobs over other jobs, we're going to keep getting more of what we have right now. So it starts with a conversation, and I know you and I are going to have a good one. Yeah. Well, I'm good at stirring up a ruckus, and you're good at having a conversation.

So we'll get it pulled together and do all of that. Hey, I think it's interesting before we wrap this up for the day. Again, America's Labor Crisis, Entreeleadership.com slash labor crisis on May the 4th from the Ramsey Event Center. You can actually come there and watch it if you want to for free. get in touch with us, entree leadership team, they'll get you in there. We're not going to,

no, we're charging for those tickets on the floor. That's right, but they'll help you get a ticket. Oh, you can get that at Ramsey Solutions.com slash events. You can get that ticket.

But anyway, come on out. Mike's going to be with us. Mike, when you ran, I watched you do some of this, some of these points that we've been covering here

on Fox and on the, I believe it was with Bill Himmer, if I remember, right? And you got almost no pushback. You went on CBS in the morning show and said the exact same thing. And you got hate mail. Sure.

Yeah. And I was on CNN last night and CNBC the day before that. And basically, Dave, I'll go anywhere. People want to have an honest conversation. Really the same conversation you and I are going to have on the fourth. But look, that's okay. I mean, this is my 15th year running a work ethics scholarship pro. program. And since we're talking about money, and if you'll forgive the shameless plug, we've got a

couple million bucks we're going to give away next month. And we set it aside specifically for people who want to learn a skill that's in demand. So back to Anthony, back to his struggle to recruit. We've got to make the pool bigger for guys like him running businesses like the ones he has. So if anybody listening knows of somebody who either doesn't want to borrow a vast sum of money to go to a four-year university or who is willing to learn a skill that's in demand, apply for a work ethic scholarship. It's over at microworks.org. You've got to jump through some hoops. The sweat pledge, talk about the sweat pledge. What do they have to pledge to?

Well, that's one of the hoops you got to jump through. You simply have to sign a 12-point pledge that I wrote many years ago that talks about things like. personal responsibility with regard to on-the-job safety. It talks about gratitude. The very first one says, I've won the greatest lottery of all time. I'm alive. I walk the earth. Above all things, I'm grateful.

If we're not on the same page for that, well, that's okay, but this particular pile of free money is probably not going to be for you. We talk about delayed gratification. We talk about a decent attitude. All of that happy horsecraft that Horatio Alger was spewing a century ago, it's still for sale. So we're just looking for, I don't care about your grades. I care about your attendance record.

Your character. Yeah, man. And look, it's hard, Dave. It's actually, it's impossible to look into your soul and weigh and measure somebody that way. But we can at least have a conversation about it. And the world's full of scholarship programs that reward academic achievement and talent and athleticism. We go with work ethic. We start there because that's what.

feels most efficient. Then we get you the training you need. We've got 1,500 people who've gone through this program. Half of them are making six figures a year. They're all working in the skilled trades. And we're doing it again right now as we speak and we'll do it again later in the year. So there it is. You know, if you or somebody you know is willing to learn a skill that's in demand, microwworks.org, apply now. And if somebody wants to donate to that foundation, can they do that too? No, no, we got all the money we need, Dave. Things you never hear on Entree Leadership. Yes.

Well, look, we've given away close to $7 million. I've raised most of it doing a lot of strange things over the years, but I've never said no to a tax deductible check at microworks.org. You'll see a giant donate button. That would be your clue. There you go. That's how you hit that. Just hit the button, you know, and then follow through.

That's good. Okay. Good stuff. Good stuff. May the 4th, America's labor crisis with Mike Roe, Dave Ramsey, Michael Easter of Comfort Crisis, Craig Groschell, Dr. John Deloney, Ken Coleman, and Nick Eberstadt. All will be with us. Mike and I will be interviewing them, talking about the parts of this discussion that they are experts on,

some of the top thought leaders in the entire world. They've got their hands around the numbers, the statistics, the economics, the mental health aspects of this, more than anybody walking the planet right now. put together the A team on this and really excited to get to do this with you, my friend. Mike Roe, thanks for hanging out. Thanks for having me, David. I will see you soon. You got it, brother.

Good stuff from Micro, as always. Man, what a year. It's safe to say we covered a respectable amount of ground in 2023. And we got big plans to do it all again in 2024. Thanks to everyone who tuned in this year. We love our listeners. We think you guys are heroes. And I want to say personally, a thank you.

To all of you who called in with your questions and your brag stories, we don't take your trust or your vulnerability lightly. And, of course, we've got to thank our guests who joined us for the live interviews. Your voices are truly valued here. And we hope to have all of you back in 2024. In the meantime, let's remember, better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high-quality leaders. So take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

listening to the Hontre Leadership Podcast.