EntreLeadership - The Breakthrough Formula for Leadership Success with David Nurse

Episode Date: February 7, 2022

Join us as our host, George Kamel, talks to David Nurse, a former professional basketball player and Guinness World Record holder for three-point shooting, speaker and bestselling author. He shares his breakthrough formula and how you can push through limitations to get the results you want. Later in the episode, George chats with Suzanne Simms, the senior executive vice president of B2C, about her personal leadership transformation and a model we use at Ramsey Solutions to help leaders keep getting better.   You’ll learn: What almost broke professional basketball player Jeremy Lin The four habits that’ll help you experience breakthrough in your life What success in life actually looks like The three keys to becoming an influential leader   Sign up for The EntreLeadership Podcast Takeaways—a weekly email where you’ll get three tangible takeaways and a tactical action step related to each week’s episode: https://bit.ly/podcast-takeaways   Support our sponsors: BELAY: https://bit.ly/33SwBlO Hite Digital: https://bit.ly/HiteDigital NetSuite: https://bit.ly/NetSuiteEntre Exodus 90: https://bit.ly/Exodus90Entre Kyro Digital: https://bit.ly/KyroDigital   Links mentioned in this episode: The EntreLeadership Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheEntreLeadershipPodcast David Nurse’s website: https://bit.ly/356YyHf Breakthrough by David Nurse: https://amzn.to/3tL4fVP The Proximity Principle by Ken Coleman: https://bit.ly/3IYxHMh Jon Gordon’s last episode on the podcast: https://apple.co/3AjGzsR Contact David Nurse: https://bit.ly/3qOqsAe Download the Ramsey Solutions’ Leadership Model: https://bit.ly/3GnxPDf Schedule a call with Tim, our producer: https://bit.ly/3bJOSmi   Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: EntreLeadership Summit: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipSummit EntreLeadership Master Series: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipMasterSeries   Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: Elite: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipElite Advisory Groups: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipAdvisoryGroups Executive Coaching: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipExecutiveCoaching Workshops: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipWorkshops Weekly Report Tool: https://bit.ly/WeeklyReportTool   Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download the Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

George Bernard Shaw once said, Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything. As a leader, you can't make progress without transformation. But what does it take to break through limitations, transform as a leader, and achieve your desired future? From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership podcast,

where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. I'm your host, George Camel, and today's episode is all about achieving your potential by breaking through limitations and reinventing yourself. Our first guest today is David Nurse. He's a former pro basketball player, bestselling author, speaker, and two-time Guinness World Record holder for three-point shooting.

David's got a new book out called Breakthrough, a sure-fired guide to realizing your potential, pushing through limitations, and achieving things you didn't know are possible. I'm going to sit down with David to talk about how to use what he calls the breakthrough formula to push through those limitations and get the results you desire. In our second conversation, I talk with Ramsey leader Suzanne Sims, who shares her personal story of reinventing herself as a leader and talks through a tool that we use at Ramsey to keep our leaders accountable for health and growth.

Up first, my conversation with David Nurse. David, thanks so much for being on with us. George, I really appreciate you having me on. It's an honor to be on here with you. So I got winded just reading through your resume. It's very impressive. You've played pro basketball. You've won two Guinness World Records.

you've trained hundreds of NBA players, coach countless, you know, CEOs, leaders, all kinds of things. Tell me about the moment you decided to go all in on basketball. You said this is the industry, this is a career path I want to go down. So I think it was a moment when I was born. I really don't remember before thinking I'm going to play in the NBA. And I grew up in a small middle of nowhere cornfields of Iowa. And now I'm not like, I'm not very athletic.

I'm not very tall. and all I wanted to do is play in the NBA, and I poured every waking hour into it. Looking back, my parents probably should have said, David, maybe like tennis or golf? Try something like that. But no, I was committed. I was going to play in the NBA.

So I grind my way to get to play college basketball, and then I'm playing professionally overseas in Europe. And it sounds really cool to say professional, overseas Europe, but it was more like the Will Ferrell semi-pro, if you've seen that movie. Oh, yeah. A joke of a league. So I'm here pouring like two a days into this man, film study, all this extra work on myself while my teammates are just partying during half time.

I still think I'm going to play in the NBA, okay? No backup plan. So I didn't have any backup. I'm playing in the NBA, but I'm playing in the second division, Spain, Basque region where they don't even know what basketball is over there. And I get cut. So think about this. All of your hopes and goals and dreams that you poured into your entire life, mine playing in the NBA, taken away from me. basically turned upside down and my face rubbed in the dirt. So I go back and I'm living on my

parents' recliner chair in Kansas City where they were living at the time and I'm feeling bad for myself and I'm licking my wounds. And my mom would always say these inspirational and motivational quotes and usually be like, whatever, mom, in one ear, out the other year. I'm not listening to you. But I remember vividly, I was kicked back at the recliner. She was doing dishes and she said, David, when one door closes, four open in an entire beachfront patio overlooking the ocean. And I was like, what? Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought it was one door, one door.

Where's this four doors to this beachfront? But it hit me. It struck me right there that everything that I'd poured into my own career of playing in the NBA, all this film study, two a day's optimization was not for me, but it was to coach other people who had more God-given ability, seven-foot heighten athleticism to get to the NBA. So I made my decision right then and there that I was going to coach in the NBA. But I had no connections at the time, just so you. You guys know, Uncle is a head coach for the Toronto Raptors. He wasn't in the NBA then,

so I had zero NBA connections. Wow. So what I did, we can get into this too, is I hand-wrote a letter to every NBA GM, hand-wrote a letter, just told him something about their organization that I like that stood out to me, and I got nothing back for a month, nothing back. And then I got a phone call from the GM of the Los Angeles Clippers at the time, Gary Sachs. And we had a normal conversation. She knows pretty quick. And at the end of it, he was like, if you're ever out in L.A., look me up, we'll grab coffee. Basically, good luck with the rest of your life. But I took that as an opportunity.

I booked a ticket to L.A. used all my money, stole some of my parents' money, booked a ticket to be out in L.A. next week to do a basketball camp. So I didn't look desperate. Didn't really have one, of course. Prepared like crazy for that meeting. Me and Gary hit it off. And every NBA connection stemmed from Gary Sacks. A relationship.

He introduced me to Eric Spolstra, one of my closest friends. to a ton of NBA GMs and coaches, just because I was willing to take that chance and write a letter. What would the worst that could happen? I would have been in the same place I was, kicked back on my parents' recliner chair, but I took action.

And, man, I don't even know where I'd be if I didn't write those letters. Wow, what a story. It reminds me of Ken Coleman's book, The Proximity Principle. I mean, you live that out. You found a person who was in the space you wanted to enter,

and you made that connection. You did it in the right way. You were persistent, resilient. you've got an incredible story. And I'm excited to dig into this. So as we get into it, we're obviously talking about breakthrough, which is the title of your new book. Who is your favorite player to coach and see them have a breakthrough?

Ooh, that's such a tough question. That's a tough one. It's like choosing your favorite child out of like 150. It really is because when I got married, seven of the people in my wedding, yeah, I had 10 people on my side. Seven of them were NBA players. We would have had the greatest NBA team. That's a tall set of groomsmen there.

Oh, oh yeah, I'll send you a picture. It is, we had three seven footers. I kid you not. I look tiny. Wow. So I would have to say the biggest story of a breakthrough and one of my closest friends is Jeremy Lynn. And Jeremy went through this time in 2011, 2011, 2012 called Lynn Sanity.

So if you don't remember it, look it up, Google it right now. It's incredible. The story that he did, he was, I came out of complete obscurity. Like literally it was three days away, three days away from getting cut. So here's this guy going to get cut from the NBA. He's sleeping on his teammates' couch at the time, and he's pouring it in. He's the first one in the gym. He's the last one to leave.

Like, he's just preparing for that opportunity. And there was 13 things, 13 things that had to happen on the day for Jeremy to even get in the game. And when he got in the game, he took over, man. He was going for 30 points a night, game winners, just game after game, Duke and Jive, and Kobe. He was the number one trending thing in the world for weeks, like Time Magazine, Twitter, Twitter. Think about that in your life. If you wake up and you're the number one, people are talking about you. It's that you are the most important thing. But if Jeremy would be, like, if he was going to be honest with you, he would tell you he would never want to go through that

situation again. Because instead of living in the appreciation for his accomplishments, he was living in the what ifs. What if I can't keep this up? What will people think of me? What if I can't keep this pace going? And we all feel that to some extent. Leaders, when you want to get to the next quarter or you got to outperform and keep outperforming, keep outperforming, instead of feeling that appreciation that God-given gift that you've been given. And honestly, one of the biggest breakthroughs that I have seen is just working with Jeremy and helping him come into his own and understanding that it doesn't matter what other people say. It doesn't matter what's on your business card. It doesn't matter the results. It's who you stand for, who you are at the core,

your true self-awareness. And the understanding that he stands for his faith in Jesus, stands for his Taiwanese people, and he thinks he's a great gourmet chef in the kitchen, which is highly debatable, but he stands for it. So point being, he stands for more than just being a basketball player on the court, and that's how he can have an appreciation for the life he lives. Wow. So it sounds like you were working with him behind the scenes,

not just on his professional ability in the sport, but making sure that his entire identity wasn't wrapped up in his performance on the court. Yeah. That's huge. Totally. And at that level and at the level of going from not just good to great, but great to outstanding where these NBA players are, it comes down to mindset. Like all these guys are super skilled. And I'm working with players right now.

Like literally last night, one of my players, he was called up from the NBA G League. He's been playing overseas for six years. Like the dude has been grinding and grinding. And he was starting a few games and playing really well. He's like, oh, I'm in success. He signs a two-year deal. then he doesn't play at all the other night. And now he calls me, he's like, man, I don't know if I belong here. I don't know. Like it's, like, it all comes down to players self-awareness confidence. Like, there's

going to be ups. There's going to be downs. I call it falling into the pit. And we all have that. We all have those times where, like, it just seems like nothing can go right. Like, why, why me? Why is this happening to me? But the more you embrace that time in the pit, the more you embrace that struggle, the longer that coal is in the fire, the shinier the diamond is going to be on the other side. And I call that one of the biggest skills that anybody can have. It's just don't give upness. Like literally, just keep going and keep going. If you don't give up, you will eventually make it. It's not going to be on your time. It's going to be on God's time. And that time is so much better than ours would be anyways. Yeah, well said. So a lot of leaders listening, they may be in that

spot. They may be in this pit. They're trying to get to this next level and there's a lot of barriers in the way. I mean, there's so many factors that are coming into play as they try to achieve these goals and they need that breakthrough. So how do you, before we get into it, how do you even define a breakthrough? That feels like a kind of pie in the sky term, but I know you've got very specific thoughts on this. Yeah, such a great question. Because when you think about the term breakthrough, it's very abstract. You don't really know like, oh, how to grasp it. It's kind of like a happy accident or a stroke of luck that happens.

You're like, that's cool. Like, how do I make that happen again? But you can't. So over the years of working with NBA players, CEOs, actors, entrepreneurs. I put together a formula of just viewing their lives, studying their lives, and what helps them have a breakthrough? What are the main points that helps them have a breakthrough? And there's four main points. The points are confidence. So you have confidence plus cooperation, plus service, plus purpose. And if you hit those points, which is very seamless, we can get into that.

It's not like, well, your morning routine has to go till 2.30 p.m. and then you're going to start your evening routine and you have to drink apple cider vinegar the whole day. Like, no, it's, It's really easy to just have this life rhythm of living in the breakthrough. And when you're hitting those points, you literally are igniting, igniting the fire for your breakthrough mode to just continue to create and create breakthroughs. So let's talk about that first step. When you talk about confidence and self-awareness, what does that mean? Because a lot of leaders may be going, okay, I mean, David, I feel pretty confident.

I'm running the business. I'm a leader in this business. I don't think I struggle with confidence. What would you say to them? So if you base your confidence on results, if you base it on how your company is doing, how you are doing as far as the stat sheet says, it's always going to waver. It's never going to be the stable confidence. And that's great.

Like we can look around this, everybody listening to this. You can look at your resume. You can look at your results. You can look at your bank account. And you can get a little bit of confidence. But that's just the tip of the iceberg. The true confidence is knowing who you are, your true self-awareness. And that's the first part.

So this formula starts with who. Like, you're never going to have a breakthrough. If you don't know who you are at the foundation, who you are at the core first, I know Simon Seneca likes to say start with why, but if you don't know yourself, you're never going to be able to get to that why. And the foundation that you build on no matter what, if anything's taken away from you, if your business car, like, if it doesn't say anything, like, if you know who you are and you've built that foundation, you've built those roots, you're going to be fine.

Because there's going to continue to be storms that come. your way that's going to try to throw you away, but you've built those deep roots through knowing your self-awareness confidence. And I challenge everybody out there because most of us will introduce ourselves to each other and will say, hey, what do you do? What do you do? And that's great. But when was the last time you said, hey, who are you? Get to know somebody at a deeper level than just what their business car says. And you will have confidence and you will exude confidence into them. Yeah. How do you step into that in a practical way where you go, all right, David, I'm ready to do some deep work and land this confidence self-awareness part. How do I take steps towards that?

Yeah. So I have a seven steps for unshakable confidence that I go through with my NBA players and my CEOs. And the first one being, okay, what do you stand for outside of just what you're doing? Like, you could be the greatest, and you write these down. You could be, and you have a whole menu that you can come back to. You can be the greatest Sunday morning pancake making dad. Like, that's what you stand for, not the banker or whoever you are. Also, a great thing for confidence is these tools, that you're able to just call yourself up into this confidence. So the first one that I use is confidence through comparison. Now, most people think comparison, oh, don't compare. It's a bad thing. The whole Instagram, social media comparison. No, to somebody, and we talked about this earlier,

we touched on, to somebody that's already been there before. Who's done it at a high level that you want to do it at and go find them. Go make them your mentor. When I wanted to be an MBA coach, I searched out. All I could do is shoot. That's literally, that's where my Guinness World Records were. That's all I could do was shoot. So I was like, okay, I'll be a shooting coach. I had to find out who the best shooting coach was. It was Chip England for the San Antonio Spurs. And I called him. I emailed him. I did everything to get a hold of him. I even drove out to Las Vegas to NBA Summer League for the opportunity to meet him. And when he saw me, when we finally met, he knew all that work that I was putting in. He's like, okay, this guy really wants it and took me under his wing and showed me the way. So don't get down about if somebody else is doing something, something you think is like, man, I wish I was at that level. You can't envy other success unless you've put in those same years behind the scenes, years that they've put in as well. So find somebody and just emulate what they do.

And then there's also little tricks and tools. One I love, and we can get into all of them if you want, one of my love is the personal highlight reel. So this is like you have had this amazing moment where you were just in the zone. Maybe it was a talk you gave. Maybe it was a sale you made, a leadership with your team, where you just felt like you were on fire. So for NBA players, it'll be one of their best games that they had.

For me personally, it was when I gave a talk at Nestle in front of 5,000 people. I was just in the zone. So you recreate this. And every morning I have my NBA players watch their clips, their personal highlight real clips, every morning when they wake up. Because that's the time when we start to doubt ourselves. The morning is the time we start to doubt ourselves. And we have, as people know, 50,000 self-talk thoughts,

daily, 80% of those are negative. Think about that. 40,000 negative self-talk thoughts floating through your mind. It doesn't have to be that way. But you have to build your mindset happens. So your personal highlight reel. And bonus points, if you can add in all five senses. If you remember the smell, man, you walk into that room, you've got that briefcase with leather, that smell or that coffee right there. You just sit in that, you visualize it. You see yourself there just crushing it because you've been there before. You can get back there again. And most of us will be like, you know, it was that stroke of luck. So personal highlight real. And then I do something too every morning. So I think it's really important in the morning, too, that you build these in. I call it the foggy mirror.

You're going to walk past a mirror some point in the morning. Hopefully to brush your teeth or take a shower. Hopefully you do. Everybody listening does. And that mirror is right there. Imagine it's covered with fog. and that's those negative self-talk thoughts. So literally, you have the opportunity to wipe that fog clean. And I'm just making a hand motion with my hands wiping it clean. It's kind of like the power stance where you're told you're staying in a powerful stance. If you feel more confident, yeah, I don't think that one really works. But I know this foggy mirror one works.

So every morning when I wake up, but I'm going to brush my teeth, I make this foggy mirror and I'm going to live in the self-confidence awareness. And there's many more tools. if anybody listening wants more, definitely please reach out, and I'd be happy to give them to you. Yeah, there are a lot of tools there to set your posture right, especially in the mornings, as you're saying, as you go about your day. That's super important. And as you move through this breakthrough formula, we move from the self-awareness confidence stage into cooperation. What do you mean by cooperation? Yeah, so first you have yourself. Okay, that's the foundation.

You know who you are. That's your confidence. Then you have to build a team around you because nobody ever did anything great by themselves. Just doesn't happen. And we are all given God-given strength, but far too often we're told by society that, oh, you've got to improve your weakness. Oh, you're defined by your weakness. No, our different strengths are just a compliments wish list

that we put together to make this ultimate team. No great team was ever a bunch of superstars, superstars, superstars, superstars, superstar, superstar. Like, think about the 98 Bulls. Jordan, best score, best player, Pippin the best sidekick, Steve Kerr, the best shooter, Dennis, Robin, the best crazy man. You don't know what color of Harry's going to show up with

if he's going to get kicked out of the game or not. But put together, this group of what I call misfits makes an ultimate team. We're all a group of misfits. And I like to tell this analogy of this place called Katz Deli in New York City. For any foodies, you know what I'm talking about. If you've been there, yeah, if you haven't, put it on your bucket list. There's a Rubin sandwich at Katz Deli. It's amazing.

It's incredible. But when you break down the ingredients, it's rye bread. like I hate rye bread. Swiss cheese, that stinks. Pastrami, gross, sourcrow, no way. Put those together. It's taste but heaven, man. And that's the, that's the epitome of these misfits put together.

So find the people around you that aren't like you. You don't want to be the American Idol singer whose family's around them and tell them they're so great and you actually are horrible. But you don't want yes men in your life. And I surround myself with people who are going to support me. Yeah. I know everybody talks about, oh, my support team, my support team, but also the people that are going to challenge me. And the best leaders that I've been around

have been the people that will challenge and support, both of those. That's why I surround myself with John Gordon's one of my very close friends, been on the show. He's going to challenge me. I was just with him talking about my next book that's coming out. I was like, John, I got this great idea, man. I'm telling him this idea. He's like, no, that's not it.

I mean, he'll support me if I decide it is. but having people in your life and also just like your cooperation team who's ever gone to work and you know what I can't wait to hang around that guy who's always complaining that negative guy like why be that person nobody wants to be around that person

you can place them on the bench so I know people have distractions people talk about oh I got so many distractions or this person distract me you can use those distractions to your benefit just place them on the bench show them to the joy that you have, the cooperation with other people that you have,

it's going to become infectious for them. So the next step is your where. So we started with the who confidence. So the where, where is your team, the cooperations putting the group of misfits with different strengths together. Wow. I can't stop thinking about Dennis Rodman as the Sourcrow.

I mean, I don't know if that's how you would put it in your mind, but that's a great analogy. Strange on its own, but when paired correctly, it's a beautiful thing. I love that. So having the team around you is great. And I think a lot of leaders, they may see themselves as the Jordan on the team or they want to be. How do you grapple with that idea of, well, this is really my strengths, and I may not be the one in the spotlight all the time as the leader.

How do you talk people through that? Yeah, so that's a really good point. And Michael Jordan wasn't always Michael Jordan. Like people that become superstars, they also. play different roles. Sure, he's very talented and it's a once in a generation talent, but to be able to play different roles in the role you're in currently right now and you act like that is the most important role, you could be the janitor. I know this goes as cliche, like, oh, just enjoy where you're at right now, pour the most into it as you can, but it's true.

Let me tell you a quick story. I love this question. So my uncle, Nick Nurse, all right, so he wins the NBA championship in his first year with the Toronto Raptors as a head coach. and everybody's like, oh, man, he got so lucky, first year head coach, NBA champion, lightning struck in a bottle. No, he was a head coach for 27 years leading up into that. So when he was 23, he got a head coach, sorry, he was an assistant at South Dakota University, small school. He puts this picture of himself on the fridge, of himself cut out holding an NBA trophy. So he's going to live in that every single day. He sees that in every single day. He knows. he's an NBA champion head coach.

So it didn't matter where he was at. He went over to England to Belgium. Like he was coaching, I went over to England. I saw him taping players' ankles, popping popcorn at halftime. He ran the organization, which is crazy. But he's living in this mode like, I'm going to be an NBA champion head coach. So nobody sees that. Nobody sees those times where you're not at the top.

But if you live in that, if you live in, I'm going to be the leader. I'm going to learn from the leader. I'm going to pour everything I have into where I'm at. right now, 27 years later, Nick Nurse wins the NBA championship. The next year, he's the NBA coach of the year, but it would have never happened. So when people say 10 years to become an overnight success, I think it's even more, 27 years to become an overnight success. Yeah, it reminds me of Dave Ramsey, and he says it all the time. People go, wow, Dave, you're such an overnight success. He goes, yeah, 30-year overnight success. Isn't that great? And so it is, it's important

to remember that this stuff doesn't happen overnight. You've got to put in the work consistently over time. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Great reminder for the leaders out there. So we move from confidence to cooperation, and then we switch over to service. What role does that play in having a breakthrough? Yeah, so you know who you are. You have your self-awareness, confidence, you know your team around you. Now the question is, what are you doing? And if your answer is you're doing it for a bank account, you're doing it for social media likes, you're doing it for everybody to look at you and tell you how good you are, you're going to be miserable. I know you have, I've been around a lot of billionaires that are very miserable because nobody in the history of ever when they're on their deathbed was saying, you know what, look at my bank account. I'm really content with my life because I made a lot of money for myself. Doesn't happen. So the third part is the what, what are you doing? And that is service. Now, when I say service, you're probably thinking, okay, I'm going to go serve at the local food bank. And that's great. Keep doing that. But true service is about pouring into others, giving your time and your energy when it's not convenient for you.

you. When it doesn't align with your Google calendar, color coordinated, you've got to Zoom here, you got a meeting here, you got a meeting there. Like somebody's going to need you. And this is so real, man. Like, it is never more important than the time we're living at right now when mental health issues are at a skyrocketed high. Like, if I wouldn't know this years ago, I probably could have saved one of my friends' life. He was reaching out to me and I didn't even know it. Like, it's just, and I know people have those stories. And it's real. It's tough, man. But as far as like leadership and growth goes in the service industry. The time that I learned that this was so important to live in this is when I was coaching with the Nets. And we were playing down in Dallas.

And I love being the first person on the floor. It's just my ambiance. You know, the whole arena to yourself, you're the first person out there. But this time I wasn't. There was a guy on the other side of the court shooting hoops and looked like just kind of like a bum off the street, if I'm being honest, these raggedy jeans, old shoes, and he's missing a lot of shots. And I walked by I am, and he turns to me, he's like, you know, the older you get, the legs go. And, you know, being a shooting coach, it's not true. I can't let that slide. It's like, you know, it's not all about the legs.

It's how you generate the power, how you build your momentum. And I could tell he was very interested. He was intrigued, and I didn't want to give this 15, 20 minute lesson to a stranger. But a friend three weeks prior had challenged me. He's like, David, you've got to live in the service mode. So, meaning I had this ability to help people become better shooters. If I could, I would. So I give this guy some pointers.

he's making more shots, more range on his shot. He's like, he's loving it, man. Now, the real players start coming out to warm up so we have to get off the court. And I say, hey, if you want more drills, like I'm more than happy to email him to you. He's like, yeah, yeah, please, please, pulls out his business card, hands it to me.

I slip it in my pocket. I'm on my way to get five minutes before the game just to just to my own. And right before tip off, I'm kind of curious. I'm like, all right, who was this guy? Who was this bum that I was helping out here? He's got this business card. I pull it out.

It says Mark Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks. Wow. I just been helping Mark Cuban harness his inner power for something he was passionate about. He loves basketball. He loves shooting. And literally, I emailed him the next day.

He got back to me within two minutes. I've heard he's a record, he's record holder for emailing. Yeah, now to have him in my friendship network, like I can hit him for ask him for business advice. It's just that would have never happened had I not been living in the service mode. I was just blown by him.

Now, I'm not saying, do this for your own selfish gain like everybody you meets going to be a Mark Cuban. No, but if you walk into the room, and this is a tool that I give leaders and anybody, you walk into the room and you look at your hands and you say the word serve. So look at your hands and say the word serve when you open the door. It's going to take a lot of pressure off you because it's not about you and who you meet and who you can network with, which is a dirty term. It's all about what you can pour into others, how you can serve them. So when you pour, pour, pour into others, and you don't expect anything. in return, you use this God-given ability that you have to serve, it all comes back to you.

You know it, I know it, it's crazy. Literally, when you pour into others and you don't expect them to give back to you, it comes back tenfold. It just works that way. So the true service mode giving your gifts when it is not convenient for you. Yeah. We talk around here a lot about how servant leadership is a redundant term. It's just assumed that if you're in leadership, you are there to serve. And so I love that reminder and what an awesome story there. So we move through three stages now in this breakthrough formula. We go from confidence to cooperation to service. And then we end with purpose.

And a lot of people like, you know, Simon Seneca, you have start with why. We're ending with the why here. What's going on there? So the why, it's not necessarily about what you are doing, your purpose, but it's who you're doing it for. And if you have passion and you have that purpose knowing you're doing it for something bigger than yourself, you're now on mission. You don't have a job. You don't have a career. you're on mission. So I love when I meet somebody who's obsessed with what they do. And now when I say

the term obsessed, a lot of people will cringe like, oh, no, David, you're supposed to be 80, 20, where's this balance? No, that's BS. It's BS. Like 80-20 is just for the world to tell us, oh, fill your time with yoga classes, with Netflix. Like, no, I'm going to be obsessed with what I'm passionate about. I don't want to be 80-20 loving my wife. I don't want to be 80-20 with the mission that I'm on to serve and lead. Like, I'm going to be obsessed with it. And I love this obsession. Like, when you go down to the local coffee spot and there's that the barista who's just telling you everything about the bean, he's about the roast. He's like, oh, this is from Nicaragua, 37 degrees Fahrenheit. Like, that's really, really attractive to me. Because he's not doing it for the money. He's not doing it

for the accolades. He's doing it to bring other people joy. And I tell a story in the book about Giro, the sushi guy, Giro Dreams of Sushi. If you know sushi, You know what I'm talking about. And I'm obsessed with sushi. So I went over there to Japan because I was consulting for the Japanese basketball league, and I'd be lying if I told you part of the reason it wasn't to just get great sushi. I wanted to find this guy, man. I wanted the best sushi in the world.

So I'm going on this hunt for three days before I have to be on court and can't find him. Finally, the third day, I get a tip of where he's at. It's underneath a train station. Two stories underneath a train station is where this guy's spot is. But they don't let anybody down there. They don't let anybody take pictures. I wouldn't take a selfie by the name zero and just, you know, put it on Instagram. Everybody would think I went there because, I mean, that's real life anyway.

I just post a picture and it happened. No, but so I had one more chance and I went the next morning to the Shiziki Fish Market. World famous fish market. You have to get there at 4 a.m. They're selling off these auctioning off these massive tunas for $3,000 and upwards. It's a wild experience. But I think, okay, if you're the best sushi maker in the world, you want the freshest fish, you're going to be here. So I've got my phone out with the picture of Zero and I'm scanning people and I'm about 97% sure that this was him.

You don't want to catch the wrong guy and take a selfie. Yeah, exactly. Right. But I'm following this guy around and these fish markets are massive, like rows and rows and rows and rows for like a mile. And he's going through this routine. He's picking up a fish. He's touching the scale. he's smelling it, even putting it to his ear, like some weird stuff, but it's his routine. And then he puts it down. He goes to the next one. Same thing. Again and again.

It's about an hour in. And I'm like, he's just picking up these fish. I'm like, man, just pick a fish already. So I got to get on court here pretty soon. And word to the wise, if you have to do something important, don't ever go to a fish market. You're going to smell like fish for weeks. I was going to ask how bad the smell was over there. It was bad.

Yeah, it was bad. So he finally picks up this fish, does his routine, and then chooses that fish. Like, how cool is that? The best sushi maker in the world was so obsessed with finding the best fish so that he could make the best sushi that night to bring other people joy. Like, he didn't care. He had this documentary. He probably didn't even know he had this worldwide documentary out.

But he was going to do that because he was obsessed with bringing other people joy. And when you live in that, when you have this God-given gift, don't hide it. Don't hide it. Like, God gives us these gifts. to be able to use, but far too often, we're like, you know what? Sally, my coworker or Jonathan down the street, like, they don't think it's the right thing to do. You're slapping God in the face, man. Like, if I gave you, if you love playing the piano, say you love playing the piano, and I buy you one,

a massive grand piano, just beautiful, makes amazing sounds. And you put it in the corner of your room and throw a tarp over it. That would be a slap in my face. That's what it's like when we hold back our gifts. We slap God in the face. So the true purpose is whatever you're obsessed with, like go for it. It doesn't have to be your career, but go for it to bring other people joy because it's not necessarily about what you do, but it's who you do it for.

Man, I love this breakthrough formula and the four steps involved there of confidence, cooperation, service, and purpose. You know, the leaders listening, they may go, David, this sounds great. And I'm ready to kind of get to that next level. I want to have that breakthrough. And I want to make sure I act on it. You know, formulas like this, they don't do anything. we don't actually act on it and put in the work.

So what should a first pass at doing the breakthrough formula look like for the busy leader out there who wants to integrate this into their day? Yeah, and that's all about it. Like, you start with figuring this out, like writing down this who you are. So put this on a note card, who you are, something that you can see every single day. It's not your business card. It's who you are. This true self-awareness.

And then you're doing these daily tools. So I'm really big on having these tools that you can actually do with you. and I do it all with the hands because the hands are a tool that we have with us all the time. And that first step, that self-awareness confidence is what I talked about with the foggy mirror. So you wipe away the fog from that mirror in the morning, okay? So you're wiping it away. You've got this card or you can do what Nick did. You can put yourself a picture up on the refrigerator.

You can look at your highlight reel. A lot of things to start off a day with that self-awareness confidence. Okay, the next one is the cooperation. This is figuring out the people that you want to be with, the people you want to be around, the person that you want to be. So the next one with the hands, my favorite player, NBA history, Steve Nash. And he led the NBA with high fives given every single year. 239 high fives a game. Incredible.

Like the dude just through his high fives and finding it like being that teammate to people, he got guys $100 million deals that had no business. getting paid that much, called the best teammate that anybody's ever played with. So be that person that gives high-fives. If you're in person, give high-fives. If we're on Zoom, air-high-fives. One of the biggest things that I've done for this part, the cooperation, I started it three years ago. I text or video message three people, my big three, three people every single day, every single morning. And I just tell them something, you know, like, hey, thinking of you while I'm drinking this coffee, like, just hope you're doing great. If there's anything I can do for you, I'm always in your corner.

Just encouraging them and letting them know that I'm there for them. And sometimes the responses from that has been just absolutely astronomical, man, life-changing. We have that ability to be that person, to encourage others, genuinely encourage others. People aren't going to do it for you. I don't expect people to do that for you, but be that person for other people. So that's your cooperation. High-fives, implement that texting. And then the service, like we talked about, every time you walk through a door with your hands,

or open up a laptop or jump on your phone, just say the word serve. It's going to take a lot of pressure off you too. Like as a leader, there's a lot of pressure on you to perform. But if you know it doesn't depend on you, say serve, serve your teammates. The best coaches in the NBA that have been blessed to be around, my uncle Eric Spolster, Steve Kerr, Brad Stevens,

they're all about serving their players. It's not, hey, it's my way or the highway. They're serving. And then finally, purpose, the last one for your hands. So we got the hands, the self-awareness, the high fives, the service. Just look at your hands. Literally look at your hands and you see all these grooves in your hands. You see these calluses.

All those lines, we all have different lines. It's like a snowflake. They're all different. You are unique. You're not like anybody else. Just look at your hands for that reminder. Use your gifts you've been given. And those calluses you see, all those tough times that you've gotten through,

you've gotten through every difficult situation in your life because you are here right now listening to this and you're alive. You're going to get through the next one. So very simple, just to live in the breakthrough mode, you can literally use your hands, giving you the other tools. There's many more tools in the book that'll kick you in that mode, but it's not a thing that's difficult.

And it's good, I mean, it's also not a thing that you just do one time, though. Like, if you brush your teeth one time, you're not going to have pearly white teeth the rest of your life. Like you have to continue to do this, to make this a habit, to make this a routine to eventually make this a lifestyle. Man, David, I love your energy. I don't know what you're putting in your coffee,

but I will take a heavy dose of it. I love how encouraging you are. You're a true optimist, and I can see why you've had so much success in training players and CEOs and leaders all over the world. Grateful for you, really excited about the new book. Thanks so much for being on the podcast. George, thank you so much.

And if anybody has any questions or wants to reach out on more tools. I'm very accessible. Email me, hit me any way you can. I'd love to talk to you. Awesome. We'll get some info in the show notes for these great listeners. Appreciate you, man. Thank you. Thanks so much, David.

Love his energy and his passion. If you want to get a copy of his new book, Breakthrough, we've got a link for you in the show notes. David talked about how to live in breakthrough mode through a simple but effective formula. But you can't have a breakthrough without transformation. So up next, I talk to Ramsey, leader Suzanne Sims about her personal leadership transformation and a model that we use at Ramsey

to help leaders keep getting better. We'll have a conversation about that right after this. All right. Up next, I talk with Suzanne Sims, our senior executive vice president of business to consumer. And we talk about how to move from just being a leader with a title to influencing through strategic passion and purpose. Here's our conversation. Suzanne, thanks so much for being on again. Thank you for having me. You've become a crowd favorite. And by that, I mean, I mean, you're one of my favorites. I was going to say, we don't actually have the feedback. Which crowd said that?

We don't have the surveys to prove it. But I always love talking with you. You are super passionate about our mission and our vision, and we are taking this thing to the next level, especially this year. So I want to get into that a little bit. We recently came up with a vision statement for Ramsey, which to most people you think they didn't have a vision statement. Tell us what went on there.

Well, we've had a mission statement for close to 30 years, and it's awesome. But, you know, we just identified. We didn't have an actual vision statement for our company, and we put a lot of time and effort into it, and it's pretty rocking. It's pretty exciting. What was the shift that we made? Because obviously, people know us as a money company, but over the years, we've really expanded into new territory. Obviously, business and leadership has been a mainstay for a long time, but we're getting into career and work and mental health and relationships and wellness, all these different spaces.

So how does the vision statement encapsulate all of that? How about I share the vision statement? Oh, you've memorized it? And then I can speak to that. You haven't memorized it? Well, I could. I might get a word wrong, one word. We see a world in which so many lives have been radically transformed that the toxic culture is disrupted.

That's big. Yes. I'm fired up just thinking about it. Not just the toxic money culture. We want to disrupt the whole toxic culture because we believe the way that the culture today teaches people about how to navigate their career. careers, how to navigate their marriages, how to navigate their mental health, their personal finances, all of these things are very toxic. It's just, it's toxic. And we want to call it what it is and not play patty cake with it. Like, we just want to be bold in calling out what we want to do and be

about the business of doing that. And our team's pretty fired up about it. Yeah. And with that, there's also a toxic leadership culture that we're trying to address here at Entree leadership. So talk to me about why this toxic culture has to be disrupted. A lot of people go, toxic culture, what's going on there, Suzanne? Yeah. Well, I would just say this. If you feel like you have been given really sound advice for a very healthy approach to leadership, to your career, to whatever, fill in the blank, then you're an anomaly.

Most folks out there are just trying to figure it out, and they're getting really bad advice most of the time. if you look at the marketing that you're inundated with as an individual as a consumer, day in and day out, and what professors are teaching in colleges, because they don't know better, like I'm not trying to hate on anybody. I'm not trying to throw some shade. But like, there's a lot of bad advice out there, and it's toxic because it's the opposite of healthy. That's all we're saying. And so there is some good stuff out there. And we just want to be alongside that. And we want to help people transform their lives. in every area of their life. I love it. And a lot of this is countercultural. It's against the grain and at the same time as common sense, which is hilarious. We've gotten so far away from that.

So with this new vision, you decided, you know what, I can't step into this unless I personally transform. What have you done to prepare yourself to lead our team into this unknown territory into the new vision? There's several components to that. I was very honored that I got to be the person who shared our vision statement with our team for the first time and we are a faith-based organization. So that was couched into a message, in a message of faith and growing our faith individually because we believe that's what we need

to be doing in order to create this disruption. But as a leader here, leading other leaders in order to lead the team to be about this disruption, like we're always looking at how we need to grow because it's all about growth as leaders and the challenge of growing as leaders. So here as leaders, we have a construct we use in order to assess each other. And we look at our leaders, we look at ourselves year in and year out, on how we're growing in three main areas, casting vision, relationships, and results, driving results, building relationships, casting vision. And what we talk about is, as a leader, you should be growing in all three of those areas

at all times, you should always be transforming as an individual in order to grow in those areas. And there are a lot of ways you can do that. You can listen to great podcast. You can read good books, you know, which we recommend all of the time. And those things are great. I personally believe that you need to be in the word because I am a person of faith. And I'm seeking God for a Holy Spirit transformation is what I want. And I encourage people in that. But we, We've been looking lately a lot at some teaching that we've really been studying around just stages of having power and influence. I think everyone in every walk of life has a certain level of power and influence.

And when you're born, you have none. But as you grow up and in your life in general, but then as you start a career and as you grow in your career, hopefully you're moving from stage to stage. And, you know, sometimes you have a certain level of power and influence just by who you're associated with. I was definitely in that place early on in my career here at Ramsey. But you want to move on into greater stages of power and influence. You want to develop having power and influence by having the right title and position. But you want to grow past that. You want to reach stage four, which is having power and influence by being the knowledge

and the expert, like by having knowledge and expertise. You're the subject matter expert. Sometimes you have a seat at the table because you're the subject matter expert regardless of your title or position. And that's phenomenal. That means you've done the hours, you've done the work, you've learned the things. But the hardest thing you'll ever do in your adult life is to grow from that stage, knowledge and expertise to stage five, which is having power and influence by having strategic passion and purpose. So you're saying it starts with, okay, you've got a title. your executive vice president, great. You report to Dave Ramsey.

That's really cool. And so people, you have influence and power because of that. Yeah, and I want to say that's okay, because if you obtained that title, that position, you probably earned it. Which you did. But you're saying it becomes more powerful when you can move through these stages and you go to now being an expert. And beyond that, you have strategic passion. What does that look like? You have to, what I tell people is to grow from having.

having a certain level of power and influence because you have knowledge and expertise, growing from that to the stage where you actually have strategic passion and purpose is so hard because you actually have to become a different version of yourself. You have to do things that make you really uncomfortable. And we've probably talked about that here before. But I just believe that you can incrementally grow as a leader and as a person over a period of time by listening to good podcasts and reading good books. and just becoming a better version of yourself.

But to transform, to reinvent yourself, you actually have to become good at things you've never been good at before. And so a lot of our leaders here, as you can imagine, they might be great at casting vision and they might be great at building relationships, but they're not real good at driving results, really rolling up their sleeves

and making results happen as one example. So what we're saying is you've got to figure out how to get good at that thing. So what do you need to be doing that makes you feel like you're going to throw up because it makes you so uncomfortable, that's the thing you need to be doing in order to grow in that area. And what will come of that transformation is you do start to have strategic passion and start to have vision you didn't have before and you have a purpose. Like, oh, this is why I'm on the earth,

right? And that affects your entire life, not just your leadership, not just how you carry yourself in your role at work. Well, you've definitely stepped into that stage. And I've got to watch that over the last, 12 to 18 months as you've really dug into this and reinvented yourself, what would you say is the difference between old Suzanne a few years back, who had a lot of power and influence, was a great leader already, to the new Suzanne. Thank you, George. I don't know. There's so much. I was really lazy. You know, when I say that, I'm being a little bit harsh on myself, but I think it's important. You're not saying you didn't work hard. This is a different kind. I was lazy in a sense that I just was really comfortable. I love being in the background. I love being behind the scenes. There are different

areas of your leadership where you need to be, you need to be driving something. Sometimes you need to be directing something. Sometimes you need to be serving, like on a committee. So serve, drive, direct. Well, I was really happy directing or serving. I didn't want to be out front driving things. I didn't want to be on stage in front of a thousand team members. I didn't want to be the one getting the credit for stuff. I have guys that report to me that are really smart and really capable. I've always been really comfortable with them being in the limelight and getting all the credit. And I was really challenged a few years ago to flip the script on that. And I've been given a lot of opportunity to speak in front of our team, sometimes in front of our entree leadership crowd. And I get so nervous

and so uncomfortable. I really do not enjoy that. But I feel. force myself to do it because that is how you transform. And that's the biggest difference between me a few years ago and me now is that I am a lot more in the limelight and I am a lot more visible to our team, which puts a responsibility on me. And it forces me to be constantly journaling and thinking about our organization where we're headed so that I can cast vision. So if I'm in front of people, I have something to say. So what has been the result of all of that? As you've gotten in front people. And obviously, I've got, you know, the feedback from, hey, Suzanne, did this devotional, and it was amazing and inspires people, and especially the women on the team who can see a women in

leadership really shine and go, wow, this is what strategic passion and purpose looks like. It really is inspiring. But what have the results you've seen from your leadership team and the whole organization? A couple of things. You hit on one is that I feel like our team is a lot more connected to me than they were before. They feel like they know me. And you cannot put a price on that as a leader of any size organization for your team to feel connected to you as one of the top leaders or the top leader of your organization. And you have to be visible and you have to put yourself out there in order for them to fill that connection. And that's a subject for another day. But another thing that I feel like has happened is that the leaders that I work with have been inspired, and I've probably

pushed them really hard, too, to transform on their own. The folks that have been on this journey with me are different today than they were a few years ago in unique ways, and their casting vision they didn't have before, and they're taking this company down roads we would have never thought to go down before to cause the disruption that we all want to cause. And so it's been really inspiring, they inspire me to continue to stay on this journey and continue to transform and become more of who God's really called me to be. Yeah, that's incredible. Well, I know a lot of leaders listening. They may be where you were a few years ago, where, you know, they may have gotten a little bit lazy, not in the fact they don't work hard, but in the fact they're not driving

all of this vision. They've got the title. They have the power and influence. They're leading a team. They go, all right, I've made it. Why do I need to continue to transform, Suzanne? What do you say to someone like that. Oh my gosh, like life's too short for that. I regret how many years I spent with that mindset. I don't care how much success you've achieved. I don't care how great your company is. It can always be greater. You were put on this earth for a reason. And hopefully what you're doing every day is what you were called to do and what you're passionate about. If not, go figure that out. But hopefully that's what you're doing. And gosh, the impact you're having can always be so much greater than whatever impact you're having today. And so do the hard work,

like get really uncomfortable, set aside time as often as you can throughout every given week to be really by yourself journaling, hopefully reading the Bible and read good books that make you think different and have a bigger impact on the world and have a bigger impact on your team and inspire them, and then they'll turn around and inspire you. Life's too short for anything else. I love it. So, you know, this is more than just the vision statements in the break room. This is Suzanne's getting in front of the company regularly,

reminding them, inspiring them, talking to them about what the future is going to look like, and it really does change the way that you come into work every day and write your code or send that email or deal with that customer. It changes the interaction, and constantly, it's a constant reminder. You may feel like you're beating the drum a little too much, But I love when we get to do that in front of the team, and we've done the walk the talk initiative, where we remind people, hey, we've got to be doing this stuff.

We've got to be transformed if we're going to transform the culture. Yes, it seems so like common sense and duh. But no, like that is so important. Whatever your team sells, whatever product or service you are bringing to the world, your organization should be eating, breathing, and living that thing and passionate about that thing or you're not going to have the impact that you should have. and the leader sets the tone for all of that. So as we wrap here,

what would you tell that leader listening who maybe is in that situation, they see what could be possible, but it would require stepping into something new, something uncomfortable, something that involves some real change, how do they prepare themselves so that they can effectively lead their team to that vision?

I don't think you can prepare yourself. I think you just have to do it. Because you already, if you're listening to this or watching this, you already know in the back of your mind there's something gnawn at you that you know, that you know you should be doing and it makes you sick at your stomach. Like it has a physiological effect on you

because it makes you that uncomfortable. You just have to do the thing. And you're going to screw up and you're going to look like an idiot sometimes. And the best thing to do is laugh at yourself and not take yourself too seriously. I'd love to spend a whole episode. I'll have you back.

But just start doing it. And tell your team like, hey, I'm really uncomfortable but I feel like I need to do this thing so that I can become a different version of myself and lead better. And so if you'll support me and you'll be in this with me, like it's going to suck for me.

But I'm going to do it. I'm just going to do it. I'm going to get up every morning and make the decision to do it. And you will inspire them to do whatever their thing is. Well, Suzanne, I'm grateful for the way you've transformed and helped lead this new vision for our organization.

And you are leading me. I'm under your team. And it really is an honor to be on this mission with you with people who care so deeply, who are constantly wanting to grow and disrupt this toxiculture. So thanks for being on with us. Love working with you, George. So proud of you. Thank you.

Always great having Suzanne on the podcast. As she just talked about, we use a three-part model to assess leaders at Ramsey Solutions. And we wanted to share that document with you so that you can evaluate your leadership and determine which area you need to work on the most out of vision, relationships, and results. We call it aptly enough the Ramsey Solutions leadership model. If you want this free download, just click the link in the show notes. Hope you enjoyed today's episode of the show. If you did, leave us a review and subscribe so you don't miss the next one. And we want to hear what you think of the show, what you like, what you don't like, and what we could do better. You can give us your feedback

by using the link in the show notes to schedule a call with Tim, our producer. If you want to keep up with us on social media, you can follow us at Entree Leadership. This episode was produced by Tim. Hull, edited by Jacob Harrison, and mixed and mastered by Will Rudder. I'm your host, George Camel, and on behalf of the entire Entree leadership team, thanks for listening. Until next time, keep learning and keep leading. If you enjoy this podcast, you should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network, like The Rachel Cruz Show.

Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz, and I'm so excited to tell you about my podcast. A lot of people are living paycheck-to-paycheck, they're in debt, they don't even know where to begin, but they have this need, this want to get in control. of their money. And if that's you, you have come to the right spot. So in each episode, you're going to get a ton of inspiration and practical advice. If you're not subscribed to the Rachel Cruise Show podcast, make sure you do it today. To hear full episodes, just search Rachel Cruz wherever you listen to podcasts or go to ramsysolutions.com slash shows.