EntreLeadership - The Difference Between Good and Great Leaders with Dr. John Delony

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

Join us as our host, George Kamel, talks to Dr. John Delony, a Ramsey Personality, bestselling author, mental health expert and the host of The Dr. John Delony Show. John explains why the best leaders lead themselves first. We talk about what leading yourself means and share some daily practices you can use to grow yourself as a leader. Later in the episode, George and John dive into the importance of friendships and the danger of loneliness in leadership.   You’ll learn: The most important person you need to lead Where true leadership begins The problem with achievement The No. 1 barrier to making friends as an adult   Support our sponsors: BELAY: https://bit.ly/351P9AE Hite Digital: https://bit.ly/HiteDigital NetSuite: https://bit.ly/NetSuiteEntre Exodus 90: https://bit.ly/Exodus90Entre Kyro Digital: https://bit.ly/KyroDigital   Links mentioned in this episode: The EntreLeadership Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheEntreLeadershipPodcast Listen to The Dr. John Delony Show: https://bit.ly/3NEZOTV Redefining Anxiety by Dr. John Delony: https://bit.ly/30MJ5u6 Own Your Past, Change Your Future by Dr. John Delony: https://bit.ly/3DsDhoJ Share your feedback with Tim, our producer: https://bit.ly/3bJOSmi   Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: EntreLeadership Summit: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipSummit EntreLeadership Master Series: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipMasterSeries   Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: Elite: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipElite Advisory Groups: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipAdvisoryGroups Executive Coaching: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipExecutiveCoaching Workshops: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipWorkshops Weekly Report Tool: https://bit.ly/WeeklyReportTool   Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download the Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A good leader knows how to lead their team well. But a great leader knows that it all starts with leading yourself well. Now, you're probably sitting there going, lead myself. What does that even mean? It's a great question, and I'm glad you asked. And we're going to answer that in today's episode, which might be one of the most important episodes we've done here at Entree Leadership. From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership podcast,

where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. I'm your host, George Camel, and today's episode is all about leading yourself. And our guest today is Ramsey Personality, Dr. John Deloney. He's a best-selling author, mental health expert, and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show. He has two PhDs and over two decades of experience in counseling, crisis response, and higher education. He helps people navigate tough decisions, improve their relationships, and reminds them that they're worth being well. He also has a new book out next week titled Own Your Past, Change Your Future, a not-so-complicated approach to relationships, mental health,

health and wellness. And today he's going to share why the best leaders lead themselves first. We'll talk about what that means and give you some of the daily practices that will help you grow as a leader. In our second segment, John's going to stick around to dive into the importance of friendships and the danger of loneliness and leadership. Up first, my conversation with John about leading yourself. Dr. John, great to have you back on the podcast. Thanks, man. It's going to be here. Long time, no see. We literally share like a cubicle right next to each other. Sit right next to each other. Well, we're excited to have you on today to talk about leading yourself first.

A lot of people that think leadership, they think, well, I'm leading a team. But it's so important to lead ourselves really well. So how do you do that? You can't follow yourself, can you? Is that a thing? Yeah, I think so, actually. I'm intrigued. That's probably a George joke, right?

And I'm going to go with it. Yes, I think a challenge that all leaders fall into is they focus on leading. other people, whether it's in your household, whether it's a mom trying to take care of her two kids, whether it's, I'm running a giant business, right? The focus is, I need to lead them. And we forget that the first person you got to lead is yourself. Are you doing the things they're going to keep you strong and well and informed and educated, all those things, a person of character? Are you doing those things so that you can loop back and take care of the people in your charge? And can you follow yourself. So I'm somebody who's pretty chaotic. I'm all over the place. Big shocker,

right? You've seen, for those of you, this is some inside baseball here. George's desk looks like that of a military general. It is perfect and precise. I think he measured, like, where the pictures are and stuff like that. And my desk looks like somebody is really, really struggling with a lot of issues. So you got hit by a mini tornado inside the office. But the day the tornado wasn't clouds and rain and thunder. It was just paper and pins and turns and. trash. Very professorial. It's embarrassing, actually. So I'm chaotic. I'm all over the place. And for me, I've got to create a path that I stay on, that I follow, that I can't deviate from. Because if I do, I know whether it's wiring, whether it's childhood trauma, whether it's whatever it is,

it's going to be really hard for me to get back on. If I'm not on, the people that are following me are going to be off. So I actually think the hard work of a leader for me is creating a path that I can follow. I can be consistent. I can be regular. I can do these things over and over and over again so that I can be well and show up. So yeah, I think you can follow yourself. So it comes down to a lot of rhythms and disciplines. I mean, leading yourself, it's a very meta term. But what does it look like? What do those rhythms and practices look like where you can check the box and go, okay, I think I'm doing this well? See, I don't think it's, I don't think it's meta. I think it's very practical. Are you sleeping? Because the data says if you're not sleeping, you're going to make bad decisions and you're

going to not be pleasant to be around. And you're going to die. early? Are you eating well? Are you exercising? Because the data says if you're not exercising and you're not burning those stress chemicals through your body, which all leaders have, and it's going to rot you from the inside out, right? Are you taking care of your relationships? Are you reading? Are you having people in your life that challenge what you believe? Are you just surrounding yourself with news ecosystems and social media systems and friends and colleagues that just regurgitate whatever junk you already believe, right? Do you have people that are constantly pressing on you and holding you accountable and stretching you? And so, man, it's not meta. It's simple, but it's a set of practices that are

going to address your physical health, your spiritual health, your psychological health, your relational health, all these things so that you are firmly anchored in and then you can go about doing the hard work out to rescue your team, right, to lead your team. Yeah. And all those things sound amazing, but combined, it feels a little bit overwhelming to go, okay, I've got to, I've got to be reading, I got to do this, I got to do these practices. You start making the list of all the things you've got to do, and a lot of people fall off the wagon because it just feels like too much. How do you realistically make this a part of your routines?

To me, it's a shift. It's not a bunch of stuff that I got to do. It's an identity. You know, from our buddy James Clear, it's who I am. So I don't have to go work out. I'm a guy who takes care of his body. And so I know that part of taking care of my body is I'm going to go, I'm going to do the physical, the hard stuff in the morning.

And if I can't do it in the morning, I'm going to try to do it in the evening. Or I'm a guy who is connected with his kids. So it's not like, I've got to get off my phone. Man, if I have that attitude, I'm going to stay on the phone. I'm going to try to get two more minutes. I'm going to try to squeeze four more minutes out of this. I'm a guy who is present with his family. And so I'm going to put my phone down.

I'm going to put it in the drawer. I'm going to not go on it when I have to leave the office, whatever boundaries I put in place for myself. So I think it's about living into who I am, not trying to come up with a bunch of tasks and much of crap that I got to get done because none of us can keep that that charade going for very long yeah so you mentioned this earlier that part of leading yourself is having people around you challenging you so leading yourself is a very personal practice but it doesn't happen in a vacuum so what role do relationships and mentors and community play in all of this and if you if anybody in entre world has heard me talk they they know it's a big deal to me just because of the data

if you are lonely, if you don't have people in your life, it is killing you. Full stop, period, at the end of sentence. Our bodies are designed to be in connection with other bodies, with other people. We've got to have people in the same room as we are. We've got to have people that have our back that we can count on that will show up at 2 a.m. I just did a study and we'll be putting the results out here. It was shocking, shocking how many people do not have someone who could come watch their kids at 2 a.m. while they took their spouse to the ER.

They just don't have that call. Our bodies know that. Our bodies know we're not safe. That fight or flight is spinning. Hey, we're not okay, we're not okay, we're not okay. And then we just go to bed again, we go to bed again, and we go to bed again, and we wonder why we pop up at 2 a.m. And so, man, I am of the firm belief.

You can do nothing. There is no long-term behavior change, system change, relational change. No long-term change that comes by yourself. You've got to have people walking that walk with you. So if we do all of these things, and we start leading ourselves well, what are the transformational results? What's the impact that we can plan on seeing

the impact that has on us, our family, our team that we're leading when we're intentional about leading ourselves well? Let me answer that this way. So when we think about like, when we start doing all this stuff, let's just think we get up at 6 o'clock in the morning. Let's do 5.30 because we're tough.

It's at 5.30, and then we go down and make coffee, and you take four and a half minutes while the coffee's brewing to have a small little journal that you got on the counter, and you just write, here's five things I'm grateful for. I'm grateful for this.

And I'm going to think about it. I'm grateful for my son. I'm grateful for my wife. I'm grateful for my job where I get to go help people today. I get to make somebody's day a little bit less crappy because I'm in the world, right? I'm going to write that down. And by time that's done, I'm going to grab my coffee. I'm going to head down to my quasi-crummy gym that I've cobbled together off Craigslist

finds. It's like, ooh, whom gym? Dude, it's all off Craigslist, man. It's nothing's great down there. But I got enough kettlebells and enough things that I can. can get through 35 minutes or 45 minutes of a really hard workout. And now what are we at? That's 45. Now we're at 620 and I'm back upstairs and my kids are starting to wake up and I can have some really intentional hugs and some laughter and I can help make breakfast and my wife's going to come in.

I can make sure her coffee's made for her. Right. So we're talking like an hour. This isn't hard like oh, this feels like so much stuff. It's just a rhythm of a day. And then I'm going to take a freezing cold shower. I'm going to get in, I'm going to get out, and I'm going to get on to work, right? I'm going to listen to something positive and uplifting or a podcast or a great radio station or a hilarious CD or whatever, rock and roll CD, whatever. And so it's just a-ist. You still listen to CDs? Is that real? Dude, I don't have, listen, I still have a CD player in my truck. I had to order my favorite artist came out with a record the other day and I had to order the CD from London.

It was kind of embarrassing. You were the one guy. Yeah, it's like, oh, we got a CD order. Wow. So, yeah, that's me. But when you do this stuff, why are you? are we doing all this so that I'm well at home, I'm well in my body, so that not if, but when the chaos of business comes, when my local government shuts down my business, when a local

competitor, it's a national competitor, shows up and opens up a store across the street for me, when I lose my big client, when two of my best employees quit, when my best employee comes in and says, hey, I'm having a psychiatric break, I've got to go to the hospital, or I've got an addiction issue. My body is in a place. My mind is in a place. My chaos is controlled in a way that now I can make clear-headed decisions. I cannot respond chaotically to everything. I can be okay. That's why you don't owe debt in your business, because one little marker this way or this way, and the whole thing falls over. If I don't owe anybody but anything, I don't got to worry about it. I'd rather be small and I own anybody but anything than the illusion of big and, but I'm leveraged.

My body will be screaming. We're not safe. We're not safe. We're one little bump away, right? and so that I can respond in really the only word that comes to mind is peace. I may fire somebody. I may have to call 911, but I can do that in a still state, right? My body is primed for these hard conversations, these hard decisions I got to make. So we think like, what does it even feel like? It feels like going to bed and falling asleep. No medicine.

You know, it's 9 o'clock and you're starting to fall asleep because your body's tired because you worked your butt off that day. it is going home and actually having sex with your spouse. We're talking about like we're of a crisis of intimacy in marriage relationships these days that you're not so distracted and so fried and so chaotic that the thought of intimacy becomes a chore, right? It becomes something you look forward to.

That you can be present with your kids and you're sitting through yet another violin concert and you want to stab yourself in the face, right? Like you can sit through it because I'm present here, I'm here, right? Not that business isn't crazy, it is, it's nuts, it's chaos. but I'm anchored and I'm still. That's why we do all this stuff. That's why you lead yourself.

And you talk about the idea of washing the boots off at the end of the long day. And it can be hard to separate your business and your work from your personal life sometimes. What does that do to kind of have that hard boundary from, this is my leadership life at work, this is my leadership life at home? I think the principles apply both places. It's like you don't have one checking account that you dump your business. business account into and your personal into. You have two checking accounts, right? So the principles of banking stay the same. My principles of how I spend my money and how I do debt are the same. But I got

them in two separate accounts. And so my troubles at work, I got a 30 minute drive home. And so in my head, I got 30 minutes to talk to a friend, to catch up, to call somebody, be like, what is happening, to listen and sing as loud as I can and cycle some of that stuff through. Sometimes to pull off and go for a run and go for a hike or to pull off and go to a coffee shop or go grab a drink with George. We go do something so that when I do show up at home, even if it's 30 minutes later, I can show up fully present, right? And then those same principles of leadership are going to start over when I'm at home. I'm going to be present like I am with my employees. I'm going to listen like I do with my employees. I'm going to be a person of character integrity like I am with my

employees. I'm going to do with my kids and with my wife and with our friends, right? The same principles apply. So you've worked with leaders behind closed doors for years in from a counseling perspective and higher ed and i'm wondering if there's a thread here between the leader who's crushing it at work and in business and they've two extra revenue and everything's great and everyone at work thinks wow this guy is amazing but the rest of their life is falling apart their spouse hates them their kids don't even know their their dad or their mom what is the thread between those types of people that you just what's the advice you give to them and what is the common ground this is hard to say, I watched that extraordinary ESPN documentary on Michael Jordan. And I remember about

halfway through it in light of what you just said. I just worked with high performers. I never worked Michael Jordan, of course, but I worked with high performers in a whole career. And I've walked alongside high performers. And I remember halfway through that documentary, this one word kept coming to mind. For what? Like, for what? For another $20 million, for another $50 million? You can't go to the bathroom in any place other than your hotel room you can't walk to the lobby and get a dikego because you'll get mobbed you can't speak in public you can't laugh in public you can't hang with your friends in public for what are we what are we doing all this for right and so the most common thing that i've seen over the years is leaders running from something and trying to achieve their way to

peace trying to get that amount of money this business off the ground this title so that I can finally go, now I've made it, now I'm worth it, now I'm here. And two things happen. One, when people get to there, wherever there is, it's usually 10x harder than they thought and 10x busier than they thought. That's the first one. And two, you've heard me say this a lot. Wherever you go, man, you end up.

You go with you. And so if you are still scared kid who's still trying to show your dad that you're worth something or like, oh, show you guys, that guy shows up with a million bucks and makes dumb decisions with a million dollars the same as I'd make dumb decisions with $1,000. And so it's folks just running and running and running, trying to achieve and achieve and achieve for the sake of finally being a peace. And that's not where peace comes from.

And here's that important caveat, George. When I say that, I often get pushed back. Oh, so we're just supposed to chill out and just not even look good? Not at all. In fact, I need people to be super ambitious. We've got some major issues in our culture we need to fix and our world need to fix and our finances we've got to fix. And my kids are growing up in this.

I got skin in the game, right? I need people to be hyper ambitious to solve some of the future. of this stuff. But I need them to know two things. You will get further and do better, both for yourself and your legacy, for your company, for your family, if you'll do the hard work at the front end of being well when you're doing this. And the second thing is this journey, this accomplishment will not heal that hole in your heart. It won't. So be about going to do great things. Go get that stuff. And God knows we need you to. And don't forget leading yourself along the way. Don't forget healing on the way. forget the practices that keep you grounded and whole and loved and okay along the way.

One of my favorite pieces of advice you've given at our entree leadership events is that winning will make you well. I think a lot of people are chasing the next goal because that's how we're trained as leaders is to hit the goals, have the results, but it ends up taking us somewhere that we don't really want to go at the end of the day. So that's a super important reminder. So as leaders listen to this, they may be going, well, John, I think I'm leading myself well. Well, there's some things I can improve on. I could sleep better. You know, I could do more of those disciplines.

It can be hard to gauge what we need in order to grow as a leader in life and in business. So as we wrap, what questions should we be asking ourselves to become a more aware and comprehensive leader? That's a great question. I think those questions are actually best asked in community, right? And our community is really good at saying, hey, man, you're not okay if you've got that crew. Hey, man, how much do you guys work out? because you i'm just comparing myself to myself right and i think man i crushed you this morning i did seven minutes on the elliptical nailed it right and then you talk to your buddy and he's like i did an hour

and a half so it's there's something about community that helps really put some metrics on that but i would always want people to go back to some of those basic questions am i angry a lot do i find myself like we had some major global issues i mean crisis happening the last couple of weeks i've been on my phone more the last two weeks and i've lost two years to the point that my wife said, hey, enough, you are here, you're not on the other side of the world, you can do nothing about that, I need you present. And it was a good, like, oh man, even I, I, I teach you this for a living and I've even gotten sucked into this, what's happening next, what's happening next. And so begin to look at your body, begin to look at the world that you inhabit. Do you like being around

you? They like being around you? When's the last time you and your wife were intimate? With what regularity? Does she like being around you? Do you like being around her? When's the last time you'll have a good conversation about what comes next? What's tomorrow going to look like what's next year going to look like are you angry do you take care of yourself are you having one more drink and one more drink are you having a one more dessert one more dessert is it taking another pot of coffee in the morning to get going right do you have two monster drinks like your heart's like 11 you know 1100 pounds now because you're just pumping all this stuff through so begin to look around these are just basic stuff can you not sleep you keep popping awake at 2 a.m. 2 a.m. 2 a.m. you can't go to bed because

your head spinning. Those are some basic low-level signals that you need to talk to somebody, that you need to begin to care for the operating system here so that when the stressful stuff comes and it will, you're ready to go. Yeah. Sounds like you need to do kind of a leadership audit, a self-adventory, self-inventory, that's right. Where am I at? Where am I struggling? Where am I hurting? Where can I improve? All good questions to ask. There's one of the most intimate questions you can ask your husband or wife is to take them out on a nice dinner or nice breakfast or something and say, I feel out of whack. And I love you and I want to be, I want to love you better. I want to love our kids better. I want to love our home better. But I also know that I've come to a

place where I can't see it. Can you tell me what you're seeing? My wife, when I approach her that way, it's a, well, first, it's like, is this a trick question? Is there like, my camera here? But you can, her shoulders will literally drop and she'll say how honest gonna be with you and i'll say i need all of it and she can point back well about three weeks ago you started sneaking candy out of the thing and then four weeks ago you grabbed another drink and another Greek and five weeks ago man your language shifted man i haven't heard you swear like that since we're in high school and you're in college she can begin to you've only gone to the gym three times like no one five times she's like you in 30 right so those in our world who love us and they they see us and if we can give them a safe

honest place to speak. It's often a great place to start with reflection. Yeah, that's huge. Well, I'm really excited about your new book, Own Your Past, Change, Your Future. I think it's going to help a lot of leaders out there that are listening to lead themselves better and lead themselves well. Are there principles in the book that are specific to leaders that you think can help walk with them through this? Yeah, one of the neatest things is early on, Brian Buffini said, got a hold of it and said, I'm buying this for everybody in my company, because if we can all do this, the company itself is going to take off, right? Of course, it's going to help your homes and it's going to help you. But as a business leader, man, if you have a team full of people who are well,

and not well all the time, things happen, that's life, but have the operating principles, the wellness principles as a part of who they are, your business will do better. You will be more innovative. You'll be faster. You'll make more money to be crass about it. You will be, because you'll have a group of people who are completely unhinged from, oh, what's happening? And they can feel free to to jump off the edge and repel into whatever's whatever's down there

because they are firmly anchored in to themselves, to their relationships, into the business, to you, all of it. And so, yeah,

as a business leader, man, your business cannot be any more well than you are. Right? Your teams cannot be any more well than you are. So if you're not okay,

they're not okay. They might play for you, they might perform for you, they might sing and dance for you. They're not okay. If you're not okay. And so, man,

let's do the hard work of being okay. And that doesn't mean things aren't, that let's do the hard work of digging and having some of these hard conversations, dealing with some of this historical stuff. And let's be about being well so that we can go to the hard, hard work that our country needs. Man, it's exciting to think about the impact that I could have if entire teams started doing this stuff.

That's right. They started leading themselves well, becoming well. Man, that's wild. Well, I'm super pumped about the book. Always love having you on. Appreciate your wisdom, your heart and who you are. Thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks, man.

Appreciate it. Thanks so much, John, for a raw. real and fun conversation. So now you guys know what it means to lead yourself and why it's so important. And as John mentioned, leadership can be lonely. And the best antidote is having solid relationships and real friends in your corner. So he's going to stick around for a deep dive on that very topic right after this. All right, we're back with John to do a deep dive into why leadership can be lonely and how to make friends as an adult.

Let's jump into it. John, welcome back. Thanks for sticking around. Thank you. I appreciate you not kicking me out. Well, it's my job. So here we are. You did try.

I'm just bigger. We had a great conversation about how to lead yourself, and part of that is having relationships in place, having community. That's a key part of all of this. But that can be really difficult as a leader to form those relationships as a grown adult. It's not as easy as it was in middle school.

Dude, it's the worst. It can be really hard. When your kids, they set you at a table with other kids, and you just got to figure it out. And then you go to lunch, Then you go to recess together. And then you go to middle school and you form teams and clubs and gangs or whatever. And then you go to high school, do the same.

And then the kicker sit over there and the kids, the fortnight kids sit over there. And then the, like, whatever. We just go through life in these little mini herds. And then you go to college and they pluck you out of everything and they stick you in this box with all these other kids. And then you all say, maybe my friend or I'll pay you to be in your gang or whatever, right? You join fraternity sort of whatever. And then they kick you out of that. out of the world. And you may have one roommate left, an old high school buddy, or you have a new

friend or a college friend. And then you go to this big company and it's, you're on your own. And then you meet somebody, right? The rest of your life is, I'm kind of on my own. And nobody talks about relationships after elementary school, middle school, high school, college. It's just go get it. In fact, relationships, when they do talk about it, are called networking. What can that person do for me so that I can get this other thing? All relationships become transactional. How do I get this job oh i need to be that guy i need to be around this guy so he can help me get this job but it becomes all about what can you do for me and what can i do for you that is not connection man that is that's a job and then you wake up and it's you're 35 and you're 40 you got two kids and a wife

and you don't really talk and you don't sleep together anymore i mean you just wake up and suddenly you are totally alone i found myself in one season of my life standing next to three dads on the outside of like a t-ball field and I was like hey how's it going good it's hot yeah it's crazy huh yeah

it's like big gulbs huh I have a lot to look forward to see you later yeah because that's the only other human interaction I had besides what was at work and then we either make our spouse our best friend and our garbage dump and our all these things

or we tried this other messy dance, which is to have really close friends at work, too. And that's got its own set of good stuff, but its own set of challenges as well. So, yeah, adults, friendmaking as adults is the worst. Yeah. Well, I think a big aspect of this is social media makes us feel like we're keeping up. Back in the day, you didn't know what your friends were up to. Now I know every single moment of my friend's day, right? And I also didn't have the illusion that I had friends that didn't have. Yes. Like, when I was 20 years ago, I knew I'm just sitting at home by myself.

Now I can sit home by myself and feel like I'm in the lives of other people. There's an illusion of connection. But I'm not, yeah. Well, you said this quote before. We have a thousand Facebook friends, but no one to help us move our couch. Yeah. Why do you think that's the case? Is it because your friends are too physically weak?

Is that part of it? I know I am. We've become insulated to rejection. And we have created an ecosystem where we surround ourselves with thoughts that just think like we do, with media that just, I mean, Netflix just tells me what I'm going to like next. I'll just watch that one. Or I've got three friends and they tell me what to. So I've got this curated world.

I don't have to sit through a friends episode or a Seinfeld episode and be like, that was no good. That one wasn't good. And you are like, that was the best one. I don't have to do that anymore. I just curate my world. And so over the last 15, 20 years as a culture, we've increasingly tightened our circles and we have dropped our resilience, our ability to handle rejection, to handle risk when it

comes to relationships. And now, if I ask you to come over and help me move my couch, one of two things, you might tell me no. And I don't have a psychology for that kind of rejection. Like, why not, man? You seriously won't even come help me move a couch, seriously? And two, I don't want to impose on you. Like, I feel like I'm a burden now. We all feel like we're a burden to everybody else. And so it's like, oh, I just won't say anything. And so now we outsource everything. I outsource movers. I outsource food. I can't even go get food at a drive-through anymore. I outsource that because I don't, I outsource, outsource laundry, you outsource house clean. We outsource everything. We've stopped living our

own lives. All that comes back to, man, I got to be present in my life and I got to say to myself to believe it, I'm worth the risk. I'm worth telling my wife, you know what, here's what I really need in this season. I'm worth telling you, you, my friend, hey, I need some help with this thing. Well, there's my relationship. I need help with my car. I need you to pick me up after work and letting you either be moved, like, yeah, I'd love to help, or say, I've got boundaries, I can't do that today. And I'm not going to take that personal. Right, so we just reach this mess of a cultural moment,

and we've got to start risking our way out of it. Well, you mentioned this. It can be awkward and uncomfortable to try to make friends as adults. How do you go about doing this without making it weird? Or do you just step into the weirdness? I don't know. So I'm a guy who steps into the weird most of the time, unintentionally and you're not afraid of awkwardness clearly yeah that's one of my spiritual

guess is being awkward i think there's two things that guide this how do you make friendships as an adult one is go first let's go first ask people can tell you know don't take it personal if somebody tells you know that's that's their choice that is it may have nothing to do it probably has nothing to do with you but go first and number two extend hospitality um you know what i'm sick of i'm sick of getting caught on my show about friendships that have broken up over the vaccine mandates. I'm sick of people calling my show and saying, I don't talk to my brother-in-law anymore,

I don't talk to my best friend anymore because they're an idiot. And they say, dude, life's too short, man. We don't got time for that. Be hospitable. Be open to different ideas. Be graceful. Open your house first. And I don't care if it's not nice in there.

If it doesn't look like a Pinterest ad, I don't cares. You go first. And we had some friends over that we've known for years the other night. man everybody showed up in different levels of clothes and kids were all over the place and we played a silly game and we ate really good it was awesome and there was no expectations no nothing no hey you need to this is my house as people know like if we're going to deloni's house we don't have tuck our shirts in right i think that's a gift that my wife cultivates for the people in our lives but go first be hospitable those two things are are a big hurdle for most of us and if you can get over that hurdle,

then friendships often will the ball get rolling down downhill. Yeah. So what does it really mean to be a friend? I feel like you've started to give us a picture of what does that relationship look like when you know, all right, this isn't just a surface level, acquaintance, colleague, coworker, you know, once in a, you know, once in a weekend kind of friend. What does that look like to be that friend? I think you have to be able to tell them the good stuff.

And we have a cultural ecosystem that leads, But first. We don't like to tell each. Like, you wouldn't call me and be like, hey, man, I sold 100 books yesterday, a thousand books yesterday. Well, you wouldn't do that. You know what I mean? Because we don't talk about the good stuff in our culture, except with a couple of people. So, who can I tell the good stuff to? I get to, hey, my kid made the All-Star team, and you'd be like, that's awesome, man. Who can you tell the good stuff to? And who can you tell the bad stuff to? You can tell the hard? Hey, I got fired. Hey, my wife just moved out. My wife told me if I don't fix my drinking problem that she's not going to be around when I get home. I need to talk. Who can you tell

that stuff too? Then the other two are heart. So who can tell the good stuff? Who can tell the bad stuff? The third one is, who can I tell the dark stuff? Who can I tell who hurt me? There's something about, hey, I'm about to get fired. I'm about to lose my job. There's something else like, hey, I'm still dealing with abuse that I experienced as a kid. My dad never hug me a single time. And I don't know how to hug my sons. And I know I need to. I don't know how to do that. I don't even know what that looks like it feels awkward to me. Who can you tell the hearts? Hey, somebody assaulted my. my wife when she was a kid and it's causing challenges in our marriage and I want to love her. I don't know how.

Who can you tell that? So you got the good stuff, the bad stuff, the dark stuff. And then, man, this is the hard one. You got to share experiences with other people. There's a reason why high school athletes on the same team stay friends for 30 years. You shared some hard stuff together. There's a reason why military vets get out of the service and are completely untethered because they spent the last four years, eight years, 16 years with me.

men and women who would die for them, right? Who trained with them, who blood with them, who sweat with them. And now they just pop in and like, hey, welcome to Costco. It's like their brains are going, reconnect, reconnect, right? So there's this idea that I can just have this surface level. Not, you can't. You've got to have people that you can share experiences with that you can tell the dark stuff, the bad stuff, the good stuff.

And here's the kicker. And they love you anyway. the guys who you call and say dude i just texted a woman back at work and they shouldn't have and they'll say come over or i'm coming over and they're coming over because they love you hey i deposited this check in my account and it was the office check and i didn't get it paid back and i'm 5,000 in the hole and i'm in trouble i'm coming over and accountability and love might be we're going to go tell we're going to talk to somebody but do they love you anyway can you tell them the good stuff can i call you every week and be like dude hank made the play and you're like that's so awesome things too long i need to

that my two dogs are can both sit at the same time deloni and i'll be like way to go george right well whatever it is can i still love you can you still love me can we talk about the hard stuff and still honor and love each other can you be fully known and fully loved that's friendship that's strong it reminds me of our time at entree leadership summit when on stage together we made a video for your son hank for his birthday because you were at the event and it was one of the most special moments that i feel like i could give you as a friend to be like dude absolutely we can do this on stage as me as the host and you speaking. And we had a great time. The crowd got involved and there was a shared experience there.

That's right. Good, man. Good stuff. So most leaders would probably say, listen, John, that's all cute and stuff, but I don't need any more friends. I don't have time to make new ones. They've got their family. They've got their team. They feel like they're fine. They're at capacity. What would you say to that leader? In 2019, the Journal of American Medical Association, I may have talked about this podcast, JAMA came out with an article that I thought was going to ripple through the medical and psychological world. I thought it was going to finally shine a light on our culture. And then COVID happened.

That study quickly got thrown aside for other more pressing needs. But the study said this, and it was earth-shattering, that for the third year in a row, the average life expectancy of a U.S. citizen had gone down. We were dying younger for the third year in a row in the United States of all places. We have all the money, all the technology, and the third year in a row people are dying.

And it wasn't because of murder, it wasn't because of any political whatever third rails it was three things suicide addictions and organ disease failures like heart disease and liver disease and dementia like our bodies were stopping on us

shutting down I heard one person call it long tail suicide we're not pulling a trigger we're just netflixing and one more drinking and one more piece of pizzaing ourselves to death I heard one scholar say we're lonelying ourselves to death

and the name that the researchers crafted around this was diseases of despair. Our bodies are just quitting. Whether it's childhood trauma that we've never dealt with, that's got an arc on it that increases our risk of stroke and heart attack and cancers, or whether it was I'm simply so quote unquote busy, I don't have time for true connection. My wife is a job. My kids are a job.

My work is a job. My morning routine is a job. I don't have time. And what I would tell any leader listening to this is you don't have time. I'm not to. You're worth more than getting to the next thing, to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing. And so, man, you want to really revolutionize your business. You want to revolutionize your home. You're revolutionized your parenting. Men, get with a group of men and you meet every week or every other week and don't miss. Keep showing up and keep showing up. Even when you're frustrated, even when you're lame, even when one of them turns out to vote the wrong way or they make fun of you because your opinion on the, keep showing up. Women, same thing. get a group of people in your life that you can keep showing up with, keep showing up with, go share experiences, y'all go do some stuff together, even if it means golfing. I have a whole thing about golf.

But if you even golfing, go do that, I don't care, go fishing together, go hiking together, go hunting. I don't care what it is. Go do stuff together. Share some experiences, and over time you're going to develop the trust that you can get from the surface level stuff to the, oh, yeah, that happened to me too. What's a great quote, I think it's CS Lewis. It says a friend is somebody who steps out of the dark and says, oh yeah me too and now we're suddenly not so alone anymore and our bodies literally go

we can breathe right and now i'm in a position to go be a great leader to run a stellar business over the long old be a great father be a great husband be a great wife now i can do that because i've got connections so don't tell me you don't have time i'm going to tell you you don't have time not to powerful reminders well john we talk about a lot of things on this podcast we love to see you know leaders grow their profits and their team and see their businesses flourish, but this might be one of the most important episodes they listen to, to lead themselves well,

to cultivate those deep friendships that keep them going for a long period of time and keep them healthy well, keep them accountable. So I love the way you've done that personally, and I'm proud to call you a friend. Thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Thanks so much, John. And just to clear the air,

John is proud to call me a friend too. If you like what you heard from John, you've got to check out his new book. Own Your Past, Change Your Future. A not-so-complicated approach to relationships, mental health, and wellness. This is John's playbook from decades of counseling experience to help you grow personally so that you can become the leader you are meant to be. It releases next week, but if you pre-order the book before April 19th, you'll also get the e-book, the audio book read by John, and one free month of weekly therapy sessions from BetterHelp.

That is amazing. Don't miss out on those bonuses. Pre-order the book today, using the link in the show notes. Hope you enjoyed today's episode of the show. If you did, I want to challenge you to share this with three people on your team or in your circle. And if you really enjoyed it, leave us a review and tell us what you love about it. And there's one guy in particular who would love to hear what you think about this podcast, and it's the producer, Tim. He wants to know what you like, what you don't like, and what improvements we should make.

Your input helps shape what you hear on this podcast. That's pretty cool. So go ahead and use the link in the show notes to connect with our producer, Tim. If you want to keep up with us on social media, you can follow us at Entree Leadership. This episode was produced by Tim Hull, edited by Jacob Harrison, and mixed and mastered by Will Rutter. I'm your host, George Camel, and on behalf of the entire Entree Leadership team, thanks for listening. Until next time, keep learning and keep leading. If you enjoy this podcast, you should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network, like the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Mental health challenges and hurting relationships happen to everyone, but they're not. they don't have to define you. I'm Dr. John Deloney and I help people navigate through the messy things in their lives on the Dr. John Deloney show. I'll walk alongside you as you face parenting, marriage, and other relationship challenges. And I'll walk alongside you as you try to connect with people as you face depression, overcome anxiety, and learn how to change your life. Listen, I want you to be well.

Listen to the Dr. John Deloney show wherever you listen to podcasts.