EntreLeadership - This is an Opportunity to Delegate

Episode Date: April 17, 2020

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Hey guys, Daniel Tarty and the Entree leadership team here at Ramsey Solutions. I'm joined today by our senior executive vice president of our Money Spoke. We'll talk about what that means in a minute. But he's also a good buddy. His name is Herb Jenkins. Herb, thank you for being with us today. Thank you for having me. Welcome aboard.

Money Spoke. I don't know if anyone in the entire country has the title of SEVP of Money Spoke. That's kind of unique to Ramsey. Maybe unpack that for a second. Well, it was a condition of working here. I said, if I'm going to work here, I need to have a title nobody else has. And Money Spoke, here we are. So we can't score whether you're doing the job right or not based on other standards in this title.

You solve the problem. There you go. Okay, so Money Spoke. You know, at Ramsey, we're in a lot of areas of life. We help people a lot of different ways. And, of course, in the personal finance space, we do a lot of stuff there. In the business leadership space, obviously we do a lot there. So we've kind of created our own, we call Wheel of Life.

Right. And there are six parts to that wheel of life, and those are, we call them spokes, you know, six spokes in the wheel. And so really another way of saying it is I'm the executive vice president of a lot of our personal finance-related products and services. Yeah. Herb does an incredible job of pulling all the leaders in those areas together, collaborating and getting the projects that may not naturally occur inside one of those areas, but would take two or three of those areas to come together. He brings those areas together and kind of pushes the vision forward and gets those leaders to get behind it. And it does incredible work.

He's a really good friend and also one of the guys that I just constantly go to when I get stuck on a problem. When I think of Herb, I think like critical thinking and problem solving. And Herb also is one of those guys that it doesn't matter how big the problem is. Like when everyone else in the room, including, you know, someone as bold as Dave Ramsey is like, I don't know. Herb's still the one like, why can't we figure this out? We just hadn't thought about it long enough. And all we got to do is, like, put it on paper and start wrestling, and we'll get there.

And I love that. I'm always inspired by that. What we want to talk about, I guess, a little bit today is it's something that has come up a lot since this disruption with the coronavirus and everything. And I've heard from our community of entree leaders talking about, you know, in the midst of chaos and crisis, obviously having our team in our corner is a big deal. but how do we delegate the right way? You know, how do we make sure that we're communicating enough? We're given the right amount of responsibility. And, you know, I don't know if it's different in peacetime or wartime.

Delegation, obviously, there's a lot of principles that we teach in Entree leadership about how to delegate well. But we're starting to get a lot of questions from business owners out there going, should I pull the rope back in? Like, is this the time to start micromanaging a little bit more? Or, hey, hey, we don't really have a, we don't have a playbook for all this stuff that's happening right now. So, you know, I hadn't had the time to train my team on certain processes and that kind of thing. But when you think about delegation right now, what comes to your mind? Yeah, that's a great question.

So, you know, when I think about delegation, well, for starters, I've led a bunch of different teams of a bunch of different sizes. I come from digital marketing and here at Ramsey when I was in that area. The team I led there was around 50 people. I've got teams now business units, lines of business that have anywhere from 9 to 20. 25 people on them. So, you know, I've seen delegation in a lot of different forms and a lot of different seasons of business and sizes of team. And really, you know, in this current season, for me, you know, people ask sometimes, should we be delegating more or less? You know, to me, it's really, this is really an opportunity to test the delegation that you have within your team.

But, you know, for me, it's really about clarity and it's really about aligning with your team members. In this current season, you need to be more clear, not less clear. But I don't know, I even see this as a, this season as an opportunity where, you know, maybe you should have been delegating to a team member already, but you've been holding on to something too long. And this is actually a great opportunity to start delegating to them like you already should have. So I've had some of those opportunities personally come up. And I've been talking to some other business leaders about that as well. So I think it's a great topic in this season to really dig into and just really talk about like how do you do that the right way because you know one of the

things about leading all those teams is you know most of what I've learned I've learned by experience and I've learned by doing it the wrong way and you know if there's any advice or value I can give here it's mostly coming from I've tried it a bunch of different ways and failed a bunch of different ways and it's a few ways I found that works and we can talk about those so when you think about delegation I guess the idea is if you're doing it right you get to kind of multiply yourself Like you got people doing things the right way at the right time. You don't have to do those things yourself so you get your time back. What else is there that like when you think about the value of delegation, what comes to mind?

You know, I always loved how Henry Cloud said it. You know, he talked about the idea of, you know, there's this seat that you have. You know, talking about the seat on the bus, but there's this role you have on your team. And as a business leader, there's a role that you uniquely play as that you uniquely play as the business leader in that organization. But there are also seats that you have on your team that need to be filled by somebody. And when I think about delegation, I think about knowing what those seats are and knowing what each of them need to be doing to make this whole group work together the right way.

And so, you know, one of the challenges for us as leaders, especially, you know, business leaders and business owners, is a lot of us, you know, started businesses from scratch, grew them from nothing, did the stuff in the trenches that we're now asking other people to do? And the challenge is, how do I get that person who's now in a seat that I've created that I've said, I need them to be doing a role? How do I get that person to do it like I would have done it, right? Or like I need them to do it. And it's really easy to say I need a role.

It's really easy identify a seat, but it's really hard to get somebody in that seat to actually do it the right way. And I feel like that's the hardest part about delegation that, you know, we can unpack here over the next few minutes. Yeah, you know, I found that in my own journey. I started out in sales, and the first time I went from being a salesperson, you know, I'd spent years mastering that craft and had gotten to be at the top of my game. But then when I became a sales leader, I found that there's an entirely different skill set. You know, it's like going from being the quarterback on the field to stepping off and being the coach with the headset and the clipboard. You maybe know some more about football. And if you've been the quarterback, you've actually played that role. But that can help a little bit. But there's all these other skill sets that come to play. about leading a team, and it's no longer like you're on the field doing the thing anymore. That's right. And it's true for most of us. You know, it's hard enough to become a great quarterback, and you spend all that energy

to get to there and then to make that transition to where you are going from great doer to great leader. That is one of the hardest transitions in leadership. But the great thing is you can draw from those things that you did when you were a great doer as you're crafting the clarity and crafting the delegation for people who are now going to do it for you instead. And so really, you know, it's when you look at delegation and you look at how great leaders delegate to their people, they create an environment where the people on their teams are both equipped and empowered to do the right stuff the right way.

I mean, it's really simple. But where it goes wrong is where, like you said, you know, those leaders who've grown up to the ranks, I find that we often kind of ping pong between over delegating, just letting go the rope and saying go do it and ping ponging back over to, you know, they're not doing it the right way, let me jump in and get it back on track. And, you know, I know exactly how it should be done. So I'm just going to jump in, do it myself, get this thing fixed, and then I'll delegate it back to them. And there's this vicious cycle that kind of happens where you just go back and forth on that. And the challenge is to try to stay in that happy middle where they're both equipped and empowered and you're, not ending up on either one of those extremes.

How do you know? How do you, like if you're on one extreme of the other, what are the signs that you may be over delegating or that you're, you know, I guess you call micromanaging or smothering your team? That's a great question. So, you know, when push comes to shove or when something's off track, a great way to figure out if you're too much on the micromanaging side is, are you jumping in yourself and taking over, taking the reins from that person, doing the work yourself, getting it back on track, and then handing the reins back over. Like, for me personally and for a lot of other leaders that I've worked with, that is a fairly regular occurrence.

I mean, every few weeks, few months, whenever it gets really intense, are you still able to, you know, lean in with your team member and say, you know, with an extreme amount of clarity, this is what I need you to do, or do you do it yourself? Yeah. It sounds like you're saying that those moments where instead of being the coach, you become the crutch. Yeah, that's right. Right. And as a sales leader, if you're jumping in and closing all the deals because, you know, you know exactly how to close them and, you know, like they do it a different way and I need to make sure it's done exactly this way.

I mean, that's an indicator of like, hey, that's, you know, that's two hands on. But, you know, on the other hand, on the overdelegating side, if it's like, well, that's just their job, they're just going to go do it, I'm going to be over here doing my own thing. and I'm just going to assume that everything is going to go well. If you can't really tell what someone on your team is really responsible for and where they are with it, if you have no visibility, if you kind of know there's this thing over there that they're doing, but if you can't really break it down with clarity, that's a sign that you're too far on the other spectrum.

And usually what will happen is that works when things go well, but then as soon as something goes sideways and you look over and you're like, what are they doing? You know, like, what do you mean they're doing? Like if you have that kind of reaction, usually it's a good indicator of like, man, I have way over delegated this thing. So, but the good news is there is a happy middle ground where, I mean, all of us can relate to one of those two situations. And for me personally, like I said, I have gone through seasons where I've gone from one to the other, back over to one. You know, it's almost like this ebb and flow thing that happens when really there is a happy middle that we can dial it in and just and make it so that.

but people don't ever feel like either one of those, you know? And so... I love it. Well, let's break this down. So this is really good. You said this is a season, we need to be more clear, not less clear. We talked about making sure you know the role that you play and then the role that your team needs to play so that you can be set up to delegate.

And you talk about this happy kind of sweet spot of being equipped and empowered, where you're not over-delegating, you're not under-delegating. Practically, how do you get to that sweet spot? How do you make sure that you're kind of driving at that? that empowered and equipped place for your team? Well, you know, it really is, okay, I can distill it down to three specific things, where if you and your team member, regardless of whether they are a leader that's on your team, or whether there's somebody in the trenches, you know, that salesperson, that maker,

you know, whatever tactical role it is, where if you can align on these three things, then you can give them lots of other room, lots of other grace on the other parts of their role, instead. So let's kind of unpack those one by one. Okay. So three areas where you and your team member are highly, highly aligned. So the first one, and at first you're going to hear and you're going to be like, wah-wah, but then we're going to pack it and you're going to be like, oh, well, there may be some areas I need to work on. So the first one is the role itself. Okay. So let me put it this way. You may say they're a salesperson, right? And we know what that. I mean, that's the, but if I were to take you and take that team member, and like, you know, those

like old school, like TV cop shows where there's two guys that, they committed this crime, they take them and they put them in separate interrogation rooms and one's just sitting there getting iced while the other one is getting interrogated and they come back in, they talk to the other one. Imagine that kind of situation. If I were to, if I were to be the interrogator there and ask you, okay, what is that salesperson's role? Like, give me the three to five things that they, that is most critical that they do with excellence. You know, and if they do those things well,

that is killing it as a salesperson. If you were to outline those three to five things, one, how easily and how clearly can you do them? And two, how aligned are you with that salesperson? If I were to then go in that other interrogation room and ask them that same question, would I get the same answer? How similar is it?

Is it 20% the same? I mean, it's usually not 0% the same. I mean, usually there's some overlap there. Is it 70%? Is it 80%? Rarely is it 100% lockstep just like we can say the same thing, the same way, without a whole lot of intentionality. You can get there, but it takes a lot of intentionality. But if you can get that kind of clarity in alignment with your team member,

that sets them up to win right off the bat in a way that most people are never set up to win. I mean, imagine if your leader had given you that kind of clarity to say, this is exactly what I expected of you. And you understood it so well that you could teach it back to them. Like, that's what I'm looking for. Is this like every hour of the day, these are the activities, these are the behaviors, this is, you know, all the little functional things that you're doing? Or is this more like these are the outcomes? Like what level of granularity are we kind of talking about? Yeah, it's a great question. It's not every little X and O. That's like tactical stuff. I'm talking about, okay, so let's take a marketing director. I have a line of business I lead at Ramsey right now,

and we have a marketing director on that team, and she's awesome, and we went through this process when she was coming on to the team. So if you were to ask me, and she and I talked about the interrogation rooms, and I actually kind of wish we could do that as an aside just to see how close we are. It's at least 95% if it's not 100. Okay, so the kind of role clarity I'm talking about is what are her main response? responsibilities as a marketing director. Well, A1 is she's responsible for lead volume within the organization. Managing leads, managing our awareness activities all the way down to conversion rate. Leads, that is your thing.

Right. And there's also things like branding and positioning. Right. There's things like leading the marketing team. Right. These are buckets of work. These are like the main broad strokes within the role that I'm, but I need to say out loud, hey, leads, that's on you. I'm not managing leads, you're managing leads. Right? And to have that kind of clarity on, even though we may work together on this stuff, I'm ultimately looking to you to say, I'm the empowered champion that's driving that forward.

Like, that's the kind of clarity I'm looking for. Now, down in the X's and O's of a marketing plan on exactly what we're going to do to hit those leads, I give a lot more latitude. But I need her to hear, you know, branding, positioning, leads, leading the marketing team, this is what you are responsible for. And if you do those things with excellence, that is what a marketing director does.

I love it. So you mentioned role clarity is the first thing. It sounds like essentially that's a lot more than just a title. I mean, you're really getting a page worth of things written out so that if you're ever in that interrogation room, you can win the prize of getting better than 95%. But man, that creates so much great alignment. I love that. So you got role clarity.

And then what's the second thing? So it plays off of the role. And you mentioned it earlier. It really is call it outcomes, call it key results. Those are terms. Let me put it in a different way. What is, okay, so how do I know if I'm winning in that role? Let's take that same marketing director.

So I'm responsible for leads. Great. If I drive 5% growth year every year, is that winning? 10% growth? 5,000 leads on this service, 2,000 on that service. I need to, with extreme clarity, unpack, it's really about as the business leader, what I expect. Right? Now, like, the way that conversation goes with the marketing director on my team, it's, okay, to hit budget, these are the leads that we need to hit, right?

And this is what I expect in this service that we're hitting 5,000 leads a month. Can I say, first of all, part of this is just a check on me. Can I communicate that, right? Can I say that cleanly, 5,000 leads a month? If not, if it's like, hey, we need to just be driving more leads. You know, you bring up a great point because, I mean, oftentimes I just know, okay, I've got pain in that area. I need growth. Make it grow. You know, and I leave and I abandon somebody. And they have no idea quantitatively what I actually meant. Not because not only did I not communicate it, but I didn't even know. Like, I didn't even sit down and figure out what needs to be happening here.

That's right. So when I can be clear, when I can be that clear, and they can really internalize it. Always leave room with people to say, like, now, I believe that's feasible. I think we can pull that off. Do you believe that's feasible? So it's a dialogue. You're working on it together.

There's a commitment involved there, but I'm just talking about clarity and alignment here. And so, you know, when it comes to the outcomes, the key results, if my marketing director knows with extreme clarity, the role I'm asking her to do, and the outcomes and the results and what winning looks like, And, you know, to that level of detail, we are more than halfway there on making sure that I can then delegate to her the right way where she's equipped and empowered to run. But the last area, and this is the one, those other two are pretty straightforward.

I can create a bullet list for roles. I can create a bullet list on outcomes. This next part, this one's squishier. There's a little bit more. This is the part that I've seen leaders miss more than the other two. So this is in the approach, the approach you take to the role. Right. So think about it like this. So I can't, like I said, I came up through digital marketing.

I've been a marketing director before. I have the benefit of sitting in that seat and doing that role, and I know what doing it with excellence looks like. So the approach I took when I did it, right? So aside from the role and the outcomes, think about it like this. How much of a command should I have on those numbers? Right. Like should I know, I mean, I could tell you, I could tell you this right now, you know, revenue. month to date on the way to expected budget this month, I keep a, as a business leader,

I keep a daily on top of it, you know, I can rattle that off at any given time. And I expect my marketing director to be able to do the same with the marketing results. Right. So think about that level of intense, focus, command, knowledge, whatever you want to call it of the results themselves. I need you to be that on top of it. When it comes to the messaging and the positioning, like this has to be something where it feels like a humid, human conversation. Like, I need you to understand our customers so deeply that you feel like we're having a conversation with them, whether it's a, you know, a landing page or whether it's an email campaign. I need you to have that deep of an understanding of the customers so that

it can, the messaging can resonate that much. When it comes to leading the team, I need you to not just understand their roles and their clarity, but I need you to understand them as people. I need you to build a personal relationship with it, the approach you take to doing the role. this is the part where you can really draw from your own experience as a leader and say this is what I expect of you and how you do it. Yeah. And most, like this part is where when I've gotten really frustrated in a team member, like not doing it the right way, it's not usually because I've got a salesperson who's trying to act like a creative. You know, it's not like they're trying to do a different role.

And I mean, sometimes on the sales, you know, not making enough calls, not closing enough business. but usually it's in the approach. They're not approaching the conversations the right way. They're not approaching how they're serving the customer the right way. It's in that that I find the most often the delegation problems really happen. The frustration starts building and you're just like, oh, aren't they doing it the right way? It's in that area more than any. But it's rare to say like this is exactly what I expect and how you approach it.

So what, like with the approach, I think I'm tracking, but I also know that like I've got a different personality. style than leaders who report to me. And so there's times I even second guess in my own mind, like, okay, are they getting there differently than I would because they have a different style or they have different strengths? Or is it like, no, this is the way they should be doing that because it's the right way. How do you differentiate that? That's a great question. What you're not trying to do is create carbon copies of yourself, right?

Because that's never going to happen. I mean, it'd be nice because then I'd have a whole bunch of people doing it exactly the way I'd be doing it. In your case, it would be. In my case, we don't need a bunch more Daniel Torres. Well, as many carbon copies that you need, I'll have of me, and it'll all work out. But no, I mean, you know, it really, it's, you've got to leave room for style. Right.

You've got to leave room for people to make it their own. But when I talk about, you know, having, it's one thing if I like to, when it comes to, like, having a hands-on daily view of the numbers, I might like to keep an Excel sheet that I update every morning. They may prefer to have an analyst, you know, create a tableau report, and it just gets sent to them, you know, and they just kind of check it. Like, there's different styles you can use, or you can, I mean, there's more than one way you can do it when it comes to building personal relationships with your team members.

There's more than one way you can build that rapport, and we all are individuals here, so I'm not trying to say, like, you know, it's go to dinner with them once a week and do these exact things, these exact ways. But what I do care about, it's more about having that kind of command of the performance of our area. However, you know, there's wiggle room there, but you've got to get to where you have that command of the numbers. You've got to have that hands-on knowledge. And so it's more, it's less in the specifics, and it gives a little bit of room for style,

like we're saying, but still it gets the same net effect. It's really good. So our goal that you've given us is we're trying to find that sweet spot where we're not over delegating. We're not under delegating. And we're getting people on our team to feel equipped and empowered. And you've given us three steps that really set that up to be possible. Make sure there's clarity on the role. Then make sure that you're aligned on the outcomes and key results.

And then finally, make sure that they understand the approach you would take to pulling that off. So once all that's done and everything's set, then what? Well, you know, the thing with this kind of concept, right, it's kind of one of those things where you kind of already know, or maybe you're saying I already know most of that stuff. It's not, this isn't a lack of knowledge problem here, why we can't delegate the right way. It's really like the art of this is in how we put it to practice.

So let's talk about that for just a second. So the biggest challenge here is each of us, you, me, anybody who's listening, we all know these things informally to be true. They're inside here somewhere, right? They're inside here somewhere. And the challenge is to get them out and to be intentional with that team member the right way. So here's like if I was to start, if you were to say, that's all great, I get it and I should be doing more of that now. What do I do about it? okay so this is this is what i've done and this is what i would recommend doing

make it very personal to you and i just want you to create a one-pageer so here's how i want this to go take that role that you're talking about and in my case marketing director this is what i did so i had a had a piece of paper and i just said look if i was in this role right so it's a me thing it's not it's uh if i'm was in that role, right? Like, let me put myself in that seat. What would, what does excellence look like? Let me break down my role with excellence. What are the main three to five things? I'm writing it down as if I was going to be doing it, right? There's something when it's very personal like that, it makes it easy for me to say, well, here's what I would do. Because like I said, I've been that

role before, and I can draw from my experience, I can draw from when I was the quarterback, and I can say, look, based on my experience, these are the top three to five things. Right. When you can connect it to you and the work you've done before, it's really powerful. So I do that. I'm creating a one-pager, and I'm going to do something with this one-pager. But I just start with the role itself, and I say, if I were in this role, this is what I would do. Then I get to the outcomes, I'd say, if I was in this role, what outcomes am I shooting for? Right. Now, the way I work is, first I understand what is budget, what are our goals, what are our baseline goals, and then what I actually shoot for is something that's way above that. Like, I'm never just creating a plan just to

hit the budget. Like, if that's what you're doing, you're almost guaranteed not to hit it. Right. So, really, I mean, now, like, there's my budget goals and then there's, like, what's going to make me happy. You got to have that padding in there. Yeah. And even just, like, I don't know, it's, there's the padding, and that's the, that's the, that's the smart side of it. But part of it is just like, well, if, if our budget was what I thought was humanly possible, that was the wrong budget to begin with. What I'm shooting for, though, is, like, if I was to maximize my capacity and contribution. What is possible here?

It's just the swinging for the fences. Yeah. That's right. That's right. The Hail Mary. You know, even when we're not in Hail Mary season, like, let me see what we can do. You know, and when I think about outcomes, I have both of those things. Okay.

So if I was in this role, what I'd be saying is, well, the budget outcomes are this on leads, but man, what I'm shooting for? This is like the kind of thing where people are like, how did we pull that off? You know, like those kind of results. And then on the approach, it's, okay, if I was in this role, what approach would I take? how would I approach the lead volume, the messaging, the how I lead the team. And some of this is just a little bit more free flow, just kind of like, from my experience, this is what I found to work really, really well.

And what this becomes is the story you tell that team member. Gotcha. Right? So, you know, if you can't get it out, if you can't communicate it, even if you know it all in your head, it doesn't matter. It doesn't, it's not worth anything. Right? So the value here is in then having a follow-up with your team member, and ideally if they're new in the role, but even if they're not, even if they've been in their role for a long time, maybe this is the first time you're having that conversation. You sit them down and you just say, hey, I know you've been doing this role for a long time. And I know you and I are almost on the same page on what this role consists of, but I just took some time to write some stuff down, and I just want to share it with you. Right. And so you just tell that story, right? You kind of read through that one-pager. and, you know, sometimes it's like, the team member's like, that's great clarity, you know?

Sometimes it's like, oh, hmm, well, I'm definitely not doing that, you know. We would have lost the interrogation test. Right, right. And, you know, and usually, I mean, again, like team members, they can often feel like they're, like, not doing a good job. Honestly, it's more of a leadership fail than it is on team members. Yeah, it's on the leader at this point, if they haven't communicated. No shame. But still, it's like if we're being honest here, like that's much more on me than it is on them. So that conversation is great. I mean, the clarity it produces can really, like I try to think about what kind of conversations can you have where with one conversation you can impact hundreds or thousands of hours of work. And this is one of those.

That's great. Because if you can align with the team member all that stuff and they are clearing the trenches day in, day out, they are making decisions off of the same, you know, song, sheet that you're seeing off of. That is a beautiful thing. What a great framework. You know, I think this is, if you're delegating at any point in time, you know, this is an incredible model. But I want to think about in the midst of kind of chaos and disruption. And I got a question from one of our listeners. They sent me this about delegation. And I'm going to read the question, and I'm going to take a stab at answering based on your framework what I think. And then I want you to tell me if you think it's right or not. So they said, what kind of opportunity do you provide for leaders to show up and shine during this season,

the season referring to lots of disruption, coronavirus shut down, and I don't know their specific business. But they're kind of asking, like, is this a time to see if delegation is really going to work? And, you know, the thought I have is your three things of the role, the outcomes, and the approach, they still apply today, but you may do a couple things different. You might have a 30-day or a 60-day role.

You know, your normal role when everything's normal is this over here. We've done that work. But for right now, I'm looking at you, Herb, going for the next 60 days, I need your role to be, you know, you're in charge of these things. Here's the outcomes that we'd be looking at in my approach. You could still do that same exercise for a shorter, you know, in this season of chaos kind of time period. And I think we probably should increase the frequency that we're checking in on that. So if we're normally checking in maybe once a week on your KRA or your key results areas, you know, it may be daily or a couple times a day, right now because the cycle of change in the marketplace and, you know, we're all kind of trying to figure out all hands on deck and what that looks like. So you think that that model still applies as long as you can kind of define the timeline and then the frequency for communication.

Yeah, I do. And, you know, so what if you're, if you're wanting to see, I mean, it could be a time for a team member to shine. I think you use, you know, there's this kind of pre-Corona and there's like the role and the outcomes kind of then. That's a great reference point. And, you know, I would still do that as a reference point. But let's say in this current season, of the five things you would normally have that person do, you know, two of them don't make as much sense right now. And you've got two other things that if they picked those up, they could really shine. And you could really help stabilize the business.

I mean, how much value would it be for them to say, hey, these three things that you've been doing, I need you to keep doing those. But these two, don't worry about them for the next 60 days. I want you to focus on these two new things instead. And here's what those things are. And here's the outcomes I expect of them. And if I was in that seat, here's how I would approach doing that work. Like if you gave them that kind of clarity in this moment right now,

you're positioning them to win over the next 60 days in a way that most people never get the opportunity to experience. Yeah, that's really good. You know, I can't help but think about right now. There are businesses who they're totally shut down. And they've had to furlough their team. I think about doing these types of exercises, and oftentimes I can never find time to get to them. You know, it's just I'm running meeting to meeting. I'm going crazy, running the business. And while I intellectually can understand, well, yeah, this is worth doing. And like you said,

will save me thousands of hours over here for whatever reason, like these things go to the bottom of my list. And if you're in that unfortunate situation right now, where you're going, hey, we're shut down and we're going to have to rebuild as painful as that is, it still creates an opportunity of you've got some time on your hands to kind of spend the time to draft these KRAs, these, you know, what do I want the, all the idea, when I'm rebuilding, how do I want all these roles to function and have the documentation ready so that you can bring people back online in 30 or 60 days and maybe have a reset and lead off with these conversations. Right. Yep, you're absolutely right there. And you know, it's as, and you know this better than anybody. It's not about creating a bunch of documents for documents sake, right? It's about

when day one of rebuilding starts. Do you want to be scrambling, figuring it out as you go, just kind of best guessing on the fly and hoping it all works, or do you want to be buttoned up and confident in saying, if you can do this and you can do that and I keep doing this, we're going to get through this thing together? I mean, that's where we all want to be, right? And this kind of process and using this time now as an opportunity to get ahead of that day one of rebuilding. If you're caught flat-footed on day one of rebuilding, you have squandered an opportunity, right? Like capitalize on it now, and it'll pay off then. Really good.

Herb, this has been super valuable. I appreciate your heart and your mind on really just empowering, you know, all of our leaders. I'm inspired. I know our audience will be as well. But you just have such a way of taking this vague concept of delegation and actually breaking it down into the bite-sized pieces that I can say. all right, this is what I'm actually going for here. So it really means a lot.

Well, guys, I know it's been a tough season. If you're listening to this, we've been coming to you almost daily trying to encourage you guys, trying to give you some nuggets of wisdom from our leaders here at Ramsey. And today is no exception to that. I hope you're tuning in. I hope you're taking notes. And I hope you're doing some of this stuff. Because what I know is the leaders that are proactive right now in this season,

not only on being adaptive in their business, but also growing themselves and transforming their own leadership. Those are the leaders they're going to emerge victorious. Those are the leaders they're going to make it through to the other side. And so I know if you're listening to this, that's the kind of person you are because you're putting good positive stuff in your mind. I hope this podcast is that for you. I hope you're doing that with not only Entree leadership, but all the great podcast and resources that are out there for you guys. If there's anything that Entree leadership and our team can do right now to help you, don't hesitate to give us a call. Our coaches are doing free quick coaching sessions right now.

you're stuck, if you're scared, if you just need to raise your hand and get a second opinion on something, give us a bus. We'll be glad to help, and we want to be a resource. We want to be here to continue to blow wind into your sales. And so keep adapting, keep growing, keep fighting, and together, we're all going to get through to the other side. And we'll see you again very soon.