EntreLeadership - Why Isn’t My Business Growing Faster?

Episode Date: December 2, 2024

Today, we’ll hear about:  An owner concerned with the slow growth of his business  A business owner trying to get the most out of his team  A woman scared that debt may bankrupt her business  A man trying to get his team to buy into his new values    Next Steps  📞 Have a question for the show? Call 844-944-1070 or send us a message: https://ter.li/ask-us  📚 Learn about the EntreLeadership System: https://ter.li/system-p  💻 Get EntreLeadership Elite for your business: https://ter.li/elite-p  ✉️ Sign up to receive tactical tools, advice and resources in your inbox every week: https://ter.li/enl  🏢 Attend EntreLeadership Summit: https://ter.li/summit   🎤 Attend EntreLeadership Master Series: https://ter.li/masterseries   Download your FREE KRA Template: https://ter.li/kra-template    Offers From Today's Sponsors  💼 Go to Belay Solutions or text ENTRE to 55123 for their free resource! 🏦 Learn more about Found 💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more 🧾 Visit Payority for a free consultation! 📝 Use code entre15 to get 15% off your first year of Trainual   Listen to More From Ramsey Network  🎙️ The Ramsey Show  💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights  🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show  🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour  💡 The Rachel Cruze Show  💰 George Kamel  💼 The Ken Coleman Show    Learn More About Your Ad Choices   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Entry Leadership podcast where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. If you've got a question you want to ask on the show, we'll fill out the form and here's how you do it. You go to Entreeleadership.com slash ask or call at 844-944-1070. That's 8444-4-4-1070. That's 844-9-4-1070. All right, up first is going to be Boyd in South Bend, Indiana. Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call.

Sure. Hey, I am a managed IT services provider. I've got six employees plus myself and a team of outside partners. We're doing $2 million in revenue. Wow. And I'll thank you. And I've been involved in Ontario leadership for a while. years ago, you encouraged me in San Antonio as a young treadmill operator to level up and I'm finding

myself at a place I need to level up again. What I've got going on here is I feel caught between the intimidation of what I have to do to get to the next stage in the conviction not to abandon the disciplines and the principles that got me here because I really need to grow this thing to sustain it and to take care of it. You know, I'm I agree. Yeah, so our original vision has got us to a certain point. How are your principles in conflict with your growth plans? Wow, that's a great question.

I guess they would not be in conflict other than we're growing slowly. We're growing slowly and steadily. It's not big numbers really quick. Is one of your principles the reason that you're growing slowly? How slowly are you growing? If you did $2 million this year, how much you're going to do next year? about two and a quarter. You're growing 10% or more a year.

Yeah, so it took us a while to get there, but now we're starting to gain some traction and we've had back years that we've been growing 20% a year. Okay. That's not that slow. No, but we took us a little while to get here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're there now.

We're not worried about how we got here. We're worried about where we're going. Okay. At least that was your question. Your question is how do I move forward, right? Yeah, but what got me here won't get me there. I'm not arguing that. You're growing at a rate of 20%.

If you keep doing that, you're going to level up because your profit dollar amount is going to be large enough to start adding the people you need, and you can start installing things like the role, clarity, and the mission and vision and starting to align everyone, moving, you know, from Pathfinder, start moving towards Trailblazer, right? Well, we're definitely Trailblazer. The business runs fine without me, but it doesn't grow without me. So we're Trailblazer with some peak performer qualities. So what do you do to get the business to grow without you? Because right now that's where I'm stuck.

The business doesn't grow without me, even though it runs very well without me. Ah. So does that mean you're making the sale of the new client? It means that I'm making the sale of the new client, yes. So I have not raised up as sales leader. to replace myself in that role because it is a very complex role. It's a very complex sale, multidisciplinary, and I haven't figured out how I've replaced myself in that role yet.

Gotcha. Okay. First thing I would do is to break that roll down into as many small parts as I could. Maximum of 10, minimum of four. Okay. What is that role composed of? Okay. And then shave off part of it.

Okay. Don't try to hand the whole thing off. You're trying to eat the elephant all at once, and you're right. What you're trying to replace you and you are the, you're the single repository of all the knowledge, the history, the wisdom, the detail, the flow, everything, and even the tech knowledge. But you could have someone, for instance, that had the tech knowledge and you had the relationship knowledge or vice versa. You have someone that's really good at building relationships and doesn't really understand how. how to turn on the computer. But listen, I'm going to get, I'm going to bring in Boyd at this stage.

They're making the sale and I'm going to bring in Boyd, and he's going to help us with the details and showing me how to do this, showing us all how to do this. But you're not having to run the entire thing soup to nuts on the sale. By breaking it up into, breaking the sale up into components. Yeah. Yep.

Okay. That makes sense. So then I'm on the right track then. So I'm just being impatient and I need to continue to stay at the course and continue to You know, right now I've got people that are taking care of account management. I've got people take care of good tech work. I've got people that take care of good service delivery that I just need to keep breaking out a piece of the time. Let's talk about it from a minute because I really am intrigued by this.

You're so sharp. You've got this thing running so well. And so if you're calling on a company, you're asking them to hire your company to provide IT services, correct? That's correct. Yeah, security and IT services. So it would be either replacing an internal IT department or nowadays it is another provider in my industry screwed up. They did something to lose the customer's trust.

Or it's a fledgling company that's blowing up fast and they don't have anything. Or whatever the case is. Yeah, that's pretty rare. Sometimes we get a brand new company, but for the most part it is replacing internal IT departments or it is replacing an in-place provider. So when you go in, let's do one where there's a triage. You go in and the former people, they've screwed up Christmas, and they bring you in to turn the lights back on, okay?

Yep. So what is it that only you know that you have to have to make that sale, and what is it that not, that other people know that's not special that makes that sale? There's more than one thing that makes that sale. They have to become convinced that. that you can straighten this stuff out and untangle the barrel of fish hooks, right? Yes, because basically I need to work with the other business owner. I need to work with the other management team to convince them that we can undo this mess for them.

And then the rest of my team can take care of actually undoing the mess. Okay, so all you're doing is making a persuasive argument that your company is competent enough to undo the fish fish hooks, right? That's correct. And also, it has to be a persuasive argument enough that we can, understand how the other people screwed up as well. So it's, you know, there's, it's a lot of layers to the onion on this one. Yeah. But the actual screw-ups are technology screw-ups.

So someone that is not good at making the sale, you could bring in a person to do an analytics dump on the thing and say, all right, I'm going to bring in Henry, I'm going to bring in George or Susie. and they're our CSI person. They're going to do an autopsy on this dadgum mess. And then when they report back to me, I'm going to sit down with you guys.

This is you talking to the owners. I'm going to sit down with you guys and show you exactly what our company is found is wrong and what the steps are to fix it. That's the persuasive piece. But you're doing all the freaking analytics too right now, and you don't have to do that. No, sir.

I'm not doing that part. You're not. racist piece. No. Okay, so you're already doing what I'm talking about. You're ahead of me. Yeah. Yeah, so that's what I'm working on. I'm just, you know, I just know that the way things are going to sustain it and to grow it and keep it. I have to scale it. The person that makes this sale has to have enough uh, enough technical competence to speak the lingo describing what your people found. They have to have a certain degree of technical competence, but they have to have a very good competence of the human train and they have to have good business acumen because those are the three

things we got messed up when we're displacing a current provider. Yeah, so this is someone you put in a junior role and they walk with your arm around them for at least a year. Okay. It's going to take a while. This is not an easy hire. No, not at all. This is someone you're going to have to bring them along because even if they have good business acumen, they might not see it the same way you want it done. and they have to be able to do it the way you want it done. That matters. I mean, Boyd's way or the highway. This is how we do it.

We've got Ramsey way of doing things that we have to teach to people who are highly competent in their technical discipline, but they're not doing it the Ramsey way, and so it's wrong. And you've got to do that with this person. Yeah, you've got to bring somebody in and start working on a disciplined, mentoring that what I'm trying to do here is create at least a partial mini-me. And I still would break this down into components because I would figure out which of the components are primitive, the first ones, the most primitive ones that I can hand off first. So as I start lengthening the guy that I'm mentoring's, I'm going to let him, I'm going to

let him handle these three things after a while, then I'm going to let him handle four things, and then I'm going to let him handle five things, and then someday he can do the whole thing. and that's the beauty of still breaking it down into components, but you're going to have to walk and because you're, you've got the ability to get the owner, current owner that's got a mess. They trust you. You've got the ability to create trust because they sense that you're confident

and competent. And by the way, you're looking at all this, even though you're not doing the technical analysis your people are. So they've got to exude that confidence and confidence, competence and to do that they've got to have what you said the business acumen so i got i finally caught up took me a minute to get there boyd sorry but you're you're further along than you think you are but but it's not on it's not um let's say we were going to teach someone to sit beside

me on the ramsie show our our big radio show that's now a huge podcast and you huge youtube and they had to and they had to handle the caller the way i wanted them handled now you could have the technical answer in the financial world and still mistreat someone or not be bold enough and tell them the truth about their behavior. And on the Ramsey show, you've got to be able to do both. And so to train these Ramsey personalities to sit beside me as co-hosts has been a very similar thing to what you're talking about. First, we had the technical knowledge we had to make sure they got, and we've been working

on that, continue to work on that. And we have to have the emotional and spiritual competence and accurate. to interface with somebody that's hurting or scared and, uh, and, and walk them through that. And so, but it's a, it's a lengthy process because these aren't, there's no class you can take on this. And that's the same thing with your deal. So you're going to be great. I, I feel really, really good about where you are. Um, A, you recognize what needs to happen. And B, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to find a way to get through it. And we just came up with at least two or three ideas to help you get through it. So very, very good. We appreciate you joining us, sir.

Thank you very much. All right. Man, I love small business people. Scratching and clawing. Scrappy. Get her done. This is the Entree Leadership podcast. Well, if you feel like you're running on empty,

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to reserve your seats. James is in Baltimore. Hi, James. How are you? Hey, Dave, how are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Awesome. My wife and I own a small destination wedding travel agency. We've got about 26 team members, most of those independent contractors. We produce around 16 to 17 million in

revenue annually. Wow. Yeah, not bad. The problem I'm having, Dave, is our team, for the most part, reacts to our motivational efforts, like rock stars. If we compare their numbers to the industry average, they're above average. But some members on our team continually underperform, not what the industry average is. They're doing great if we look at the averages, but they're underperforming what I know their potential is. So I'm trying different ways to motivate them, and nothing seems to be making a difference. And, you know, I've been listening to a long time. I know that you say, you know, normal sucks. And I agree with that. And I don't want

my team to be normal. I really want them to hit the potential. So my question is, do you think some people are okay with just being normal and not pushing themselves and as their leader. Should I be okay with that or should I continue to push them while I see no growth or progress? Our rule around here is up or out. Step up or step out. Yeah, I mean, we're not threatening you, but everyone here should be reading and growing and getting better. We should all be getting better at what we do, me included, because tomorrow is not going to accept today's level. it never does.

And so ultimately the marketplace is yelling at you and yelling at me, up or out. The reason you've got 17 million and your competitors don't, and the reason in your world, I looked at that number and I went, wow, because it's pretty stinking impressive, James, way to go. Thank you. I mean, that's cool. You guys have a level of excellence your competitors don't have. Yeah.

And that is brought to you by my team, your team. And so when my team is not going to do that, then they don't get to stay. So we have an expectation at Ramsey. You have an expectation at your place. This is what winning looks like. And you put some core values in place that involve excellence. And you say, this is who we are. It's not who we wish we were.

It's not who we aspire to be. It is by definition who we are. and if you are going to be a we, this is going to be you. And we're not threatening or mean. We just create an expectation from the hiring through the onboarding with all the rest of the team that this is all there is. There's not another option. Mailing an in is not an option. Working like you're on a J-O-B and collecting a check.

How late can I come? How early can I leave and get out of there? No. And I'm on Facebook. all day long unless I'm on the Facebook team. You know, that's silly. So no, you're up or out. We're going to talk to you and say, look, here's what's going on, and here's what we do.

And I know it's different than some other places. And I don't, I'm not trying to, you know, but we're going to have a lot of very clear conversations that this level of excellence is what the rest of the team functions at and this level of care to the customer going the extra mile. because what you guys deal with, I'm sure, is you have to be able to pivot in the moment and fix a problem or the drama gets big fast, doesn't it? Correct. We've got a hurricane coming right now.

There you go. Well, that's a major problem, but I'm talking about – and if we don't do that, we've got no freaking wedding cake. I don't know I'm making something up here, but I mean, we do live events, and I know if we have some kind of a thing, we had a one time we had an 18 wheeler break down and we had absolutely no books to sell on the back table you know and it's like okay what are we going to do about that well i never knew it happened until i got home after the event because our guys had four u-halls out the side of the dadgum interstate unloading a stinking 18 wheeler by hand into these u-halls and i had books on the back table by the time i walked up there but that's after 20 years of having a level of

expectation of excellence. And, oh, by the way, guys, the way we get paid is booksell off the back table. Fex your check, hello. So, you know, all that. And so everybody knew that. Nobody had to say, oh, well, gosh, you know, the truck just didn't make it.

That was not a possible answer. Right. And you got that kind of stuff for a living because you're doing events for a living. Our events team, man, they can spell the word pivot, I promise you. Right, right. So because that's part of delivering excellence because crap happens day of always.

Something's going on. And so all we can do is try to have redundancies and, you know, contingent plans and then have people that care so deeply that they'll run through a thicket of briars to get something done. And that's what you're after. And somebody that doesn't have that mindset is not a we at your place. Yeah. I guess part of this, Dave, though, is that they are 100, percent commission-based, you know, positions, independent contractors.

And does that play a role? If they're okay making X amount of money. Not if they're not delivering with the attitude and the service. Okay. You know, like let's just say I've got a vendor, okay, that's, I don't know, printing for us or doing printing for us, okay? Well, they run their business. I don't run their, they're an independent contractor, right?

but if they're not delivering that printing with excellence and on a timely basis and on the budget as promised well you don't get to be my vendor anymore right i mean we're going to talk about it we're going hey what happened with this delivery and you know can can you make this right but if they have a pattern of uh lack of excellence of incompetence of lack of quality delivery then that pattern you know you're invalid as a possible vendor and so you know you're an independent contractor, but you don't get to sell, you know, real estate agents are an independent contractor, but you don't get to sell my house if you suck at it. Yeah, our industry is very similar to real estate. And that's, I guess we're in a position we're at, whereas the brokerage and the

agent is just doing okay. Yeah. And we want them to do, we want them to do great. Exactly. Exactly. We don't work with agents that aren't high octane, high protein. Yeah. If they're going to be Ramsey trusted, if they're going to be James trusted, you've got to bring it, man. You're playing for the Super Bowl every time you're on one of our deals. If you want to kick back and mail it in on one of the other jobs, that's your decision. But if you're going to be part of this team that we count on, our customers consider you to be Ramsey.

So like I walk around the building ever so often and I was walking through not long ago. It's what printing popped into my head. And there was two stacks of some printed material, the same booklet, right, for an event we were doing. and the colors on the two covers were different, or one shade off, the PMS, you know, on the delivery on it. And I'm like, okay, so which one of these is going in the dumpster? And the guys are like, what?

And I said, well, look, you think we're putting out, with 5,000 people sitting in an audience, two different colors? Right. What that says is we suck it, we don't care. That says we don't, quality doesn't matter. Well, that's the way the printer delivered it. And I said, I don't care how the printer delivered it. You shouldn't have accepted it.

It didn't meet print specs. The print specs have the PMS color, and one of these is off. By definition, it has to be because the other one's on. And so one of them is going in the dumpster. That printer is reprinting it, or he's not getting paid because he didn't meet specs. And so, you know, but I'm just saying I'm holding everybody's to this excellence line. And that was a new person that was over that area. and the rest of the time they work at Ramsey, they will have that story to tell

because they now have this exact metaphor in front of them on how not to do it. So, yeah, yes, you've got to hold them. If I'm a real estate broker with my, when I've got a bunch of independent contractors working for me selling houses, I don't want, you know, half of them to be pitiful. Then the company name gets a reputation of being pitiful. So you don't get to stay. You don't get to keep getting jobs from us if you're not going to bring. it. And now, again, we're not doing this in a threatening fear-based thing. It's just an accountability

discussion. It's like, here's what we require. And if you want to be a Ramsey trusted, if you want to be James trusted for this, you want to be one of the people we count on that our clients count on, here's how we go about that. And that's basically specking out the job for the vendor, is what we're doing. And same thing for a team member, if they're actually on W-2. And it's just a KRA. in that case, a key results area. So, yeah. It's real easy to look at them and say, they're independent. I don't have the right.

Oh, no, no, no. You not only have the right, you have the obligation. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Thank you for joining us, America. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is the Entree Leadership podcast. Megan is in Las Vegas, Nevada. Hi, Megan, what's up in your world?

So I own a e-commerce education business that's like primarily D to C. And so I usually do anywhere from like 1.2 to 1.6 million. Last year is 1.3. And we've gotten to the point where really we've been running out of our own cash flow. And our debt repayment has been so rapid that that seems to be where sales are at currently around. like that 60 to 80k, where it used to be anywhere from 80 to 125k easily, is not sustainable for the level of debt we have. And since I'm pulling out of basically all of my cash, I'm wondering filing bankruptcy what to do, how to do that. Will I lose all of my own assets and even the

proprietary like stuff that I've built for all this education? And I just don't know where to go from here, really, with that debt. How long have you been running this? So four and a half years, and it took me two years to even build the first products, so six years altogether. I'm sorry, that's a scary thing to be facing. Okay. It sucks. All right.

So you got a million two to a million six, around a million, give or take, and it's trending downward. And you've got your debt is eating all of your profit. Is that what you're telling me? Yeah. So we borrowed fast funding. So they're taking about 17 to 20 percent of our revenue every single day. we bring in. Okay, explain to me what you mean by fast funding. Are you talking,

you're, yeah, they call them like merchant cash advances. So like for Shopify, for example, I've taken money from Shopify capital. And how they do that is instead of, so if I take like a hundred thousand from them, my borrow, I have to pay back $110,000. But the whole kind of deal is that I give them 17 to 20 percent of, you, I have to pay back $110,000. I have to $10,000. of my revenue every single day. So whatever my sales are, they change. Towards the payment? Correct.

Yep. You got it. Okay. Until the $110,000 is repaid. You got it. Okay. And how much in fast funding do you have with Shopify? So right now it's down to $88,000.

So not much. Okay. No. All right. And at a 20% burn rate, that's going to be, Let's see here. $20,000. You're going to do that in about six or eight months.

That would be gone if you don't do any more of it. Right. Okay. And what other debt do you have other than the fast funding $88? Yeah. I have $100,000 to chase credit card. And then I have $40,000 to my dad. And then I have $500,000 that I borrowed from the COVID relief.

And those payments start in November. of only 2,300 a month. Okay. And which type of COVID relief was that? The PIP? It's like the SBA COVID-I-D-L emergency. Oh, I got it. Okay.

Did they take a lien on your house on that one? So as far as I think it's, like I don't know if it's a lien now, but it is unsecured debt, so I'm assuming. Okay. Like they would. We have a house in California and we're currently renting in Vegas. So assuming our house in California, that's worth 550 would be.

Okay. So when you pay the 17% out of your gross revs to cover the $88,000, you're not paying anything on the $500 yet. And then you've got the credit card payment. You're saying what profit you had is gone. Yeah, like currently at the rate with our sales right now and marketing being so much more expensive. Yeah.

So you don't have much margin? You got it. Yep. Okay. And the marketing that you're doing is what? SEO paid ads or what? Yes. It's all like meta, Instagram.

Yeah. And it's gone up 5X. Yeah. Yeah. Their dollars don't go far at all. We are singularly sick of them at Ramsey. I'm with you. Okay.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. We're moving away from the model because it's not, they've taken, they've taken all the fun out of it. So, right. Why are your sales down because you're not getting a ROAS on the ad buys? Yeah, essentially it feels like the numbers that we do have, according to our marketing team, are still great,

but our dollars don't go for us. We've lowered our ad spend, which is overall lowered, you know, the attention we get. It used to be that it was very easy for us to do at least a three-plus. because of like our niche product. Yeah, but now we're very lucky if it's like a two. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

That's the same thing we're seeing. So, yeah. So what we've done is we decided we have to acquire customers another way. Yeah. Have you worked on that? Yeah. We're doing like conferences and trying to expand into the B2B area, so more for colleges and then health care systems since we're in the medical education space.

and we've gotten a lot of great, like, once in eyes, but even, for example, we had a huge medical corporation that basically bought over $40,000 of books from us saying, like, how great this is and they want to expand, but every single education platform person that we talked to that spot from us prior is even saying that their budgets are tight, and they're even, like, lowering the order volume that they would get from us and that they don't even have it in this year's budgets either. Okay. So that was like one way we were trying to pivot and shift. Even being at the conferences is super helpful to like have that awareness,

um, doing all I can to post all the time, which feels like just that job alone is making me spread so thin. Yeah. Yeah. Running your own. Okay. Well, here's some principles that I've learned from coaching businesses and running one

both. for 30 plus years. Those of us that have the backbone and the gumption to start something and run it like you have, it is very, very, very hard for us emotionally to close something. So because we're optimists, we always think we can figure it out or you wouldn't even start at a business. And so for that reason, my observation is that people tend to shift into a, I don't know what, the right word.

The word that's coming to mind is a fantasy, but that's not the right word. That's not, it's too strong a word. We shift into a form of denial, and we should close six months before we do close. Right, yeah. Because we're not, we're not facing the reality. Okay. And Jim Collins in his book, How the Mighty Fall, calls it the last 10% of truth. And the last 10% of truth is when all the different realities stack up and you look at it and you go, oh, crap, we're there.

So if you won't face the last 10% of truth, it's how the mighty fall. It's one of the five reasons in his book that that happens. So I'm not claiming you're there, but I'm just saying that's a normal tendency of a small business entrepreneur running something. something your size is to hang on too long. And so the second principle that I've observed is Henry Cloud wrote a book called Necessary Endings. Order it when you get off the phone with me. Okay?

The core thesis of the book is that we end something, anything, a job, a relationship, a business, when we have no logical pattern in front of us leading to success. Right. Okay. So a wacky example would be someone that's married to an alcoholic. Okay. And we have to end that marriage if we see no actual behavior. to fix the alcoholism, like, you know, joining AA, going to rehab, stop drinking,

you know, all these kinds of things. These are actual actions that give us hope. But when we don't have hope based on a logical pattern, then it is a necessary ending. And that's what you're going to analyze now, is you're going to start saying, okay, when this 500,000 kicks in, if I haven't replaced the revenue that's law, my source of leads hasn't come up before that kicks in, I'm going to have a real problem. That's what I think I'm seeing. Am I wrong?

Yeah. No, yeah. And I'm kind of there where, like, I've been fighting tooth and nail every day, and I feel like I can't, like, punch anymore to the point. Well, you shouldn't punch anymore unless there's a logical reason that says, I see, there's a light at the end of the tunnel that's not a train, you know? Yeah. There has to be a, there's a path here to a new source of leads, a better Roez on my current leads,

a changing in the debt structure, you know, you got to get out of the Shopify business. It's cut you off at the knees. That cash flow right there alone would change everything. Yeah, yeah. But if you got your volume back up to 150 a month, 1.8, you know, and you got your, your lead cost down and you got rid of Shopify, all of a sudden were viable. Right. When I didn't have that Shopify before, it was fine.

I had basically taken it to, like, one, get a little bit more inventory, but also we, like, shot a commercial hoping. Yeah, but you should have shot that with cash or not shot it. That's your future. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, your future is I never borrow into inventory and I never borrow into marketing. I never borrow because it put me in this mess. but anyway, so that's water under the bridge.

But now in the future, that's how I want you to analyze it. But in the meantime, you know, is there anything, do you have an asset you can sell to clear some of this? The house in California, are you living in it at all? No, we run it. What's it worth? 550,000. Is it paid for?

We bought it three years ago at least, maybe four years ago now, and we bought it for 400,000. What's your mortgage on it? 28. No, no, no, no, no, balance. Mortgage balance. Mortgage balance. Oh, left over.

You know, gosh, I cannot remember. I want to say 440. Okay. All right. So there's 100 there. If you sold it, there's 100,000 there, and you don't need to be in the rental business. That 100,000 could clear Shopify.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then as far as, like, the bank, I mean, the credit card debt, though. Or it could clear the credit card debt, either one. I don't care. Right. But I think the Shopify is going to give you more cash flow, isn't it? Yeah.

Oh, my gosh, yes. Yeah, then the credit card. And then use that cash flow to clear the credit card. Dad's on hold anyway. He knows that. And then you've got the stupid government over here. Good God, what I miss that is. But that's a different.

Yeah. The only way you clear that, you've got to get to making money. So anyway, I need to sit down and go, okay, I got five more things I can try, or seven more things I can try, before I don't see a way out. Right. And then when you've run that, here's what's going to happen.

It's very weird. If you've run, let's call it six things, okay? There's six things. When you've run all six of those, and I'm still sitting here, you're going to have a sense of peace about closing this. Right. Because it's like when you've done

every single thing you know to do in your right mind that is logical, well, I'm done. I'm done. Right, exactly. Yeah. Now, here's the thing. Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

I don't know if that SBA loan's going to clear. I don't know if it's bankruptable. It depends on which type of COVID thing it is. Some of the COVID stuff is bankruptible. Some of it's not. And so the Shopify for sure is bankruptible. The credit cards for sure are bankruptible. And you don't get to keep the house in a bankruptcy.

They're going to force the sale of that and use the equity to apply to your creditors. So go ahead and sell it. now and apply it to your creditors. Right. Because if you file bankruptcy, it's gone anyway. What about, like, the Chapter 11, though, to restructure, to, like, try to, like, change the debt? The only reason to do that is if you see a way out.

And if you see a way out, you're going to make it anyway. Because if I'm going to file Chapter 11, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to not pay the SBA. And I'm going to not pay the credit cards for five months. Right. And that's, you know, and then catch them up later when you get things working. But you have to know that you have to see some kind of a pattern movement in your business that shows at the end of that five months, I'm going to start paying.

Yeah. Because Chapter 11 is going to require that you pay them. It's just how much and when. And the only way that's going to happen is if the business is actually profitable. You don't want to work for this business for zero income for five years just to run a chapter 11. Screw that. Right. Exactly.

Close it. Yeah. Yeah. We were thinking of like for Black Friday, even just doing a massive clearance sale to even just try to move. Do it. Do it. Do it.

Well, don't even wait until Black Friday. Just declare October Friday. October surprise. It's an election special. Okay. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Just make something up. What the crap? I mean, how big is your mailing? How big is your email list? Over 150,000. Yeah. People. You probably generate.

you probably generate $100K if you hit that right. I was thinking that too. And deeply discount and clean a bunch of this inventory and sell that house. Now we're rid of the credit card debt and we're rid of Shopify. We still have not solved the core issue, which is the business isn't profitable.

Right. I've got to get my revenues back up and my margins back up. I've got to get my revenues back up and my margins back up. Right. Correct. Or the rest of this is just, we're just plugging our fingers in the Titanic. Yeah.

Execute, fast, like you're desperate because you are. And see if those two things clear Shopify and clear the credit cards, Dad's on hold, the other stuff's on hold until the fall anyway. And you said how long before COVID kicks in? In November, it will be $2,300, yeah. Oh, that's not bad. Okay, that's not even a blip. Okay.

Yeah, exactly. The only problem with that is you're going to be in debt for $4,300. thousand years if you don't do more than that. But yeah, but short term, short term, that's good news, because we're talking about what are my margins right now after debt. And so if you got no debt except dad and $2,300,000, now we can get our ROAS back up. We can get a different source of leads than we've been having reset this business model in a new world where Facebook and Meta and Google tried to take your business over with their price increases. That's what they've done to all of us, by the way.

Apple 13 didn't help. But the, oh, that was awful. Yeah, it's the same, same thing. And so they all three fall in that thing. But it's big tech is, is sucking the marrow out of businesses that, particularly small businesses like yours that were trying to operate

by just utilizing Google, just utilizing Facebook. But it's, they've raised their prices so stinking high, and then Apple got involved and helped them add even more to it. Anyway, all that, get off my soapbox, but I do know what happened to you. I see it, okay? Yeah, yeah, right.

You need a new source of leads and never touch anything like that Spotify deal again. Yeah, no, never. That deal is a death knell, okay? Horrible deal. Yeah. Wow. Okay, Megan, I think you're going to make it. Yeah.

I think you're going to make it. I know. I feel like this just brought a lot of clarity, honestly. Ten minutes ago, I didn't think you were going to make it, but I think you're going to make it now. Yeah. If we sell the house and have a Black Friday sale and clear those two, I need $188,000, right? Between those two things. Yeah.

And that, your cash flow just changed way big time. We still have to get to the core business problem, the model on the lead generation, but I think you can do that. You were looking for a lead when you found these, so you'll find a way. Yeah, right. Because it's who you are. That's how you function. But don't keep doing the same thing over and over again expect a different result right? No exactly insanity exactly exactly exactly I can't handle it

yeah what does your husband do uh he's a police officer and how much have you unloaded all this emotion onto him um honestly not a lot but i've had like three big breakdowns this year and he's been there for it um i don't mean breakdowns i mean i i i think it's okay to say i'm my tank is running low and i'm scared. That's it. You don't need a bank, you don't need a breakdown. You can just say that. No, you're right. And I am very blessed because he, even just a day text me, it was like, whatever is going to happen, we're going to be totally fine. He's right. He's right. Yeah. He's right. And that's very hard to come from. The thing you got to remember, I went bankrupt when I was 28 and lost everything in a real estate thing that went sideways. Okay. And the thing I found out is

that the secret sauce was not the system. It was me. Right. And that's not arrogance. The reason this was successful is you. That reason doesn't go away if you made four bad decisions that bankrupt you. Yeah. Spotify credit cards and not getting out Facebook and other stuff fast enough. That's three bad decisions. Yeah. If those three things take you down, Shopify, I said Spotify. I'm sorry, Shopify. Yeah, I got it. But anyway, the, If those three things take you down, it does not invalidate that you're brilliant enough to have done this in the first place. Hear me. Yeah.

Thanks. Yeah, I needed that. Yeah. Because you know how many people can build a million dollar business? I mean, come on. You are amazing. But even amazing people stub their toe, and you did. Yeah.

Or break their knee or whatever we wanted to go with here. But I think you're going to make it. I think you're going to make it. I want to hear it back from you. Will you call me back and tell me if you make it? Oh, yeah, a thousand percent. I really appreciate your time. Absolutely.

My pleasure. I'm honored to speak with you. Wow. Very cool. Huh. There's some good principles in there for all of you guys. Number one, you know, don't borrow. Sometimes I'll tell you what some of you guys do out there.

You don't do, I didn't know what fast funding was. I just learned something on this call. I did not know that Shopify would completely become, God, that's payday lender bull crap right there, man. I mean, wow, stay away from that kind of stuff. But I'll tell you where I almost got in that one time, I was doing B-to-B stuff selling to businesses, and I had like $4 million in receivables laying here,

and I couldn't get the money to come in fast enough that was owed to me. And you can sell off your receivables, and it's almost as bad a deal as that is. It's called factoring your receivables. And I've dealt with a lot of entree leadership clients over the years and gotten them away from factoring. because it does to your cash flow

what this Shopify thing was doing to her cash flow. Oh my God, 17% a month of your revenues. Go to this thing. You just gave them your firstborn and said, go sit in the vault until we get this figured out. Oh, my God. That's just horrid. And Shopify actually has a decent model

until they start doing crap like that. but that makes a credit card look like a bargain. If you can make a credit card look like a bargain, you've really screwed something up. I mean, Shopify, come on, seriously. So, yeah, I just, if that thing works exactly the way I just learned, if I didn't, if I didn't learn it right, Shopify, you can call and correct me and I will recant.

But if I understood from her what you're doing to her, you should stop it. Good God, you should be ashamed of yourself. put the very people out of business that you were trying to, that you're supposed to be there to serve. Classic. Oh, I think we can make a little money by going in the debt business, and we forgot the business that we were in,

and now we're in the debt business. And when companies do that, there we go. And now we have Klarna. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, yeah. Killing me. All right, enough of my rents, there we go. But principle, necessary endings.

Don't hang on too long. Develop a pattern. Don't keep doing the same thing. When somebody moves your cheese, go find the cheese on these dadgum lead-based things, man. It's ridiculous. That's where we are. So good stuff. Good stuff.

This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Hey, guys, this is Entree Leadership Podcast. Run a little bit long in this particular one, but a call like hers is a counseling session. It's a coaching session. You get to listen in. So it's worth your investment of your time. worth me making our producers nervous because I'm running way over the attention span of the average American with this particular episode.

But so be it. So that's what we're doing. Hey, if you like the show, please click the follow button or the subscribe button, leave a five-star review, and share the show with someone. Tell people it's here. Send them a link. It's helpful. If it's helpful, do that.

And we'll try to continue to be there. for you. Steve is in Milwaukee. Hi, Steve. How are you? Hey, Dave. I'm doing great. I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you. You too. So, so I'm an owner and my company does custom paint finishes. We have 40 team members and our revenue is 12 million. Wow. I have evolved and grown a lot of a leader over the past few years and as I make positive changes in my company. I've noticed that it can be challenging to get buy-in, you know, especially that I would expect and from my longest standing team members. So my question is, how do I better and quicker get commitment to our core values, particularly amongst those who have been with us the longest, and remember the old

ways of doing things? And maybe even the old me. Well, one thing I would do, the first thing I'd do is just say all of that out loud. You know, some of you in this room, we're in staff meeting right now, and some of you in this room have been here a long time, and you remember a version of me that is different than I am now, because I'm growing and changing. Hopefully I'm getting better, but that old version of me is gone, and this new version of me is here. I've been married 43 years. My wife will tell you she's very happy. She's not married to the redneck beer drink and hellrazen hillbilly that she originally married, that I've gotten better. I'm a much better husband,

much better man, a much better person than I was 43 years ago. Still not arrived, still not perfect, still she gets aggravated, but I'm just on my journey. And so, and if, and so sometimes I tell families also when they look up and they say, oh my gosh, we're deeply in debt, how do we tell the teenagers that we're not going on vacation? And you say, you know, I got some bad news, I got some good news. the bad news is we're horrible at handling money in this family. The good news is we've discovered that and we've figured out how to fix it. The bad news is that temporarily there's going to be some pain associated with that fix

because I'm selling everything in sight and we're not going on vacation. You get to stay and you get to eat and probably will get to go to college because of these moves, but for right now you're not going to like some of the changes. and, you know, and so you just announced this to the team. Now, I tell our team that, and I also tell them, everyone loves change that's good. That's good. Like, what if I announced to our whole team

that all the food in our cafe was free starting now? That's a change. People would love that change, right? Sure, sure. So they love change. that they perceive as good. You know, I always hear these leadership things where they say, well, people resist change.

No, they don't. They resist change that is, that they don't understand or that they don't perceive as good. And so, you know, I've got a 1960 Corvette. I've got a 2014 Corvette. They don't make them like they used to. Thank God. You know?

That 2014 has gone. got a lot of very cool stuff on it that had not even been thought of in 1960. So, you know, we resist change, but we don't resist change that is better, that is an upgrade. And so anytime I'm introducing a change, I tell everybody that story, and I tell them that the change we think is good, and here's why we think it's good. Now you get to decide if you agree with me that this change is good because the change is going to happen the only thing that we don't know yet is how you're going to address the change.

Do you think this is a good move and you're excited about it or are you going to be resistant to change? And change is much like driving the car around a really sharp corner. guys, sometimes when I whip left or I whip right, people get thrown out of the car. The centrifugal force of change, they can't hang on for the ride. And sometimes I lose some old timers. Yeah. Because they're the ones that can't keep a grip for some reason.

Sometimes I lose some new timers, but they're ones I shouldn't have hired six months ago. And so, but it's really sad when the old timer says, you know what, I don't like the way we're doing this and I'm out of here. It hurts your feelings. But it's necessary. So again, I say all of that out loud, and when you say it all of that out loud, then it, to the team, the team as a whole, and say, and we're making this change for that reason.

We made a change to our health insurance not long ago, and it dropped everyone's cost. I said, we're going to make a change. And it's going to drop what you. you pay and you're going to have the same coverage. Well, nobody disliked that change, right? That was an easy one to digest. So all of that to say, a lot of communication and then explaining why we're doing this. Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why. Here's our core value that we're doing. We're instituting this thought pattern. We're now doing one-on-ones for accountability

across the whole company. We weren't doing but about 70 percent. Now we're doing it for everyone. Why? Because accountability one-on-ones helps everyone stay on the track, and it gives them a place to input with their leader what's going on with their lives. And so that's a change. If you don't want to do a one-on-one and be held accountable and have an opportunity to speak to your leader about problems and issues you've got, then you're not going to like it. But this is what we're doing, and it's a great idea because it's going to help everybody. and so but but we are all doing that you may decide you're not a we anymore and that's kind of how the speech was sound does that make any sense yeah it makes a lot of sense what did i miss well you know one of the one of the biggest challenges i i find is getting getting people to work here like employee owners and one of our core values is responsibility and it speaks

about that. And that's, it's probably one of my most frustrating ones, and I don't know how to communicate that clear enough or get them to buy in and why that's good for them. We do that, we do that from staff meeting stage, and we do it in one-on-ones. So you mentioned one-on-ones for everyone. We're currently doing it for about 70% like you said. You said everyone. Yeah.

Everyone. Everyone. Because that gives us an opportunity in private. to have gentle, clear explanations early on in a frustration before it becomes a big frustration. Got it. And so that gives me the ability to look at across the room and I've got a guy or a gal over here that's doing this one thing and you say, okay, it looks, sit down with me here in a room, door closed, just the two of us.

Now tell me, I think I'm saying, I'm saying, seeing you not live out this core value. It looks like you don't care as if you're an owner. It looks like you're kind of mailing it in. Like this is a J-O-B, and you're just collecting a check. Is there something going on in your life, or is there something I can do to help you to where you can bring your full self

into these issues and into your job? Okay. And I'm just going to, that's how it's going to sound the first time, real gentle, but real clear. there was nothing unclear about what I said, right? Right, crystal clear. Yeah, and it would be, and if somebody was just sloughing off and screwing around and you say that to them, it goes all down their back, man, little sweat beads, you know what I'm saying?

Sure. So, because they go, oh, crap, somebody is going to hold me to this, and I was doing that, and now I've got to decide because they're going to bring it up again if I keep doing it. Yep. Sure. Yep. Yep, because we, the one we call it around here is we call it self-employed. We all have a self-employed mentality.

We all treat this place like we're an owner. And that means that we love our customers, we work hard, we bring excellence. It means a lot of things if you're the owner. And so, and that's what you're talking about. That's a responsibility thing. And so you just go, hey, guy, this is our core value. and this core value is not a brochure thing. It's how we do stuff here,

and it looks like you're not aligned on that. Is there something I can do to help you get aligned because it's going to be necessary for you to be aligned? Yeah, and what I've learned is if you got that one handled, you tend to get buy-in of all the other core values just based on that. Well, because they're going to look at them and go, oh, he's freaking serious about this. It's not a game.

Yeah. Because most companies put up core values on the wall and then don't do any of them. And we did that for long enough and got real serious about them, and now I find myself frustrated. And maybe it's because they saw them on the wall. We didn't do nothing about him for so long. Yeah. Yeah, it takes a little while to get everybody believing that we're really going to do this now. It does.

It's okay. You can be gentle with folks, but at the end of the story, this is who we are now. And if you don't want to be a we, then that's your decision. It's a free country. But if you want to be a we, we're doing these things. That's what Ramsey, if you're at Ramsey, that's what Ramsey looks like. And, you know, we don't do it another way. We don't have another way of doing it here.

This is the way we do it at Ramsey. And, you know, we'll talk about it. We can coach you. We'll teach you. Sometimes someone, you know, they're dragging a button along, and then you find out they're having trouble at home. They're kids sick or something. And then you can extend a little bit of grace and let them.

let them work through that, that it wasn't laziness and it wasn't lack of alignment. It's that they got their mind on something more important than work. And that's okay. We'll give them a little bit of room, but ask them, you know, is there something going on at home or is there some way I can help you? Is there something in the business model that's keeping you from winning? Can I help you with that? But if you're just simply not bringing your best version of you, that's not going to be okay.

That's where we're going with that. you're a stud, you're killing it. That's pretty cool. That kind of $12 million with 40 people. That's stinking amazing right there. Well done, Steve. That's a really good question too. I like letting you get, thank you for letting me get up on my soapbox about core values. Because I think when you get aligned to those, it's a big part of building a business that you actually enjoy running and coming down to the office and talking to the people and the customers. When it's like herding cats and they're running all over the place and there's chaos, takes a lot of fun out of it. So very, very good question.

Hey, folks, remember better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high-quality leaders, so take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the Entree Leadership Podcast.