EntreLeadership - Why Real Leaders Never Waste Time

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

Today, we’ll hear about: •             Dave’s method for using commutes and daily routines to develop your leadership skills •       A business owner wanting to expand despite a lack of profitability •             How real leaders invite healthy conflict and turn pushback into better decisions •             A manager wanting to ask for profit-based pay with humility and a focus on adding value   Next Steps: ·      📞 Have a question for the show? Call 844-944-1070 or send us a message: https://ter.li/ask-us ·      📚 Learn about the EntreLeadership System™: https://ter.li/system-p ·      💻 Get EntreLeadership Elite™ for your business: https://ter.li/elite-p ·      ✉️ Sign up to receive tactical tools, advice and resources in your inbox every week: https://ter.li/enl ·      🏢 Attend EntreLeadership Summit: https://ter.li/summit  ·      🎤 Attend EntreLeadership Master Series: https://ter.li/masterseries  ·      📖 Order Dave’s new book, Build a Business You Love: https://ter.li/b4kru2 ·      📘 Get your free EntreLeadership® Reading Guide today: https://ter.li/7qjso2   Connect With Our Sponsors: ·      💼 Go to Belay Solutions or text ENTRE to 55123 for their free resource! ·      💻 Visit NetSuite today to learn more. ·      🧾 Visit Payority for a free consultation! ·      📈 Grab Sales Gravy's free resource to help you hire and lead better. Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show💰 George Kamel   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is Entree Leadership, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches right alongside you. If you got a question you want to ask on the show, fill out the form at Entreeleadership.com slash ask or call, and we'll set you up 844-944-1070. That's 844-9-4-1070. Ben is in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Hey, Ben, how are you? Hey, I'm doing well, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call today. Sure. What's up? Yeah, so I am a director overseeing staff recruiting, hiring, and training for a faith-based organization. We've got about 150 staff across several different regions and college campuses across the country. we're launching a new leadership initiative to help our regional leaders grow through coaching,

mentoring, and skill developments the first time we've done something like this. And so my question is, how much time should we ask them to invest in their own development? And then how can we create the space for them to do that in the middle of busy ministry life? Well, there's a couple things that come to mind. One was Ziegler used to say that you should graduate from automobile university. and so most of us spend enough time in our cars to consume audiobooks, leadership podcasts, and that's pretty much what I do in the truck every day. Occasionally I'll turn on some worship music.

Occasionally I'll turn on some jazz. But most of the time, I've got somebody's podcast on or somebody's audiobook on filling up that space. the same thing when I walk with the dog in the morning three miles I'm redeeming the time while I'm out there instead of wasting it and um the other thing that I've and I that goes back with me all the way to cassette tapes in my car okay before there was an internet right and it's listening to John Maxwell's maximum impact and that kind of stuff so I just always have been taught my whole life to redeem the time in the car or on the walks or the treadmill or the run or wherever it is, you might as well be getting double uses of the time.

Because, you know, I mean, music is wonderful, and it is good. There are good times that you do that for stress relief and, you know, just for praise and for worship, right? That's good. It's a good thing to do, just like prayer time and so forth. But too many of us turn on something as the background noise of our life rather than in the foreground. So what's in the foreground of the mind while you're doing this? And it does make that, and I've noticed that airplanes fly faster when I'm reading a good book,

versus when I'm trying to play some stupid thing on the phone or something like that. They slow down dramatically. So, yeah, redeeming the time is the main thing I would teach them. I guess the second item I would teach is that I have done, is especially when I'm on a curve on something, if I'm trying to get, trying to get the other get over the hump, get the other side of a certain subject. I'm going to allocate a number of minutes every morning to

read on that book. It doesn't have to be a lot. You'd be amazed if you read 15 minutes every morning, how many books you can go through in a year. But most people don't even do that. They get up, they have coffee, they're wandering around, they're checking their

Instagram and all these other bull crap. And it's just, it's useless time. And so, you know, if you'll set aside 15 minutes in the Bible, 15 minutes in a nonfiction leadership book, you'll be amazed in 365 days how much you get through. It's pretty incredible. And then the third thing I've done is I have allocated in most of my years of leadership growth. The one week or the three-day seminar or event where I get away from the office and I'm plugged into a series of teachers or speakers in a very intense one-on-one setting where the

schedule's full. There's no room in it for me to check email. I have to do everything. I have to be plugged into that. These days, that's one of our Entre Leadership Summits or Entree Master Series or something along those lines. But that's the three things I've done, is the getaway three-day, four-day thing, very intense, redeeming the time of the car drive or the car ride or the run or the whatever. And then a scheduled time for just a few minutes.

Don't try to say I'm going to read an hour every morning. Most people aren't going to do that. You've got too many other things pulling at your morning trying to get up, get moving, get out the door. I mean, you have to get up three o'clock in a morning or something to do that. So just make it something light. But again, you know, and you start talking about several hours a week that you have read then if you just do 15 minutes a day. So, yeah, keep the increments there. But I think probably the most time that I spend consuming leadership material to this day is the car and the walk.

And so that's, you know, but it's simple stuff like that. It's not anything. But you have to put something that fits your life. so you're going to actually do it. That's the thing you have to make sure you're designing in there. Really good question. I'm happy y'all are doing that, Ben. That's impressive. Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit, and grow. And your team, family, and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic. And you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it alone.

That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system, accounting inventory CRM payroll the works, and now NetSuite's AI takes it further, automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster, you're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move, but NetSuite's sweet success process gets you up and running fast. Go to NetSuite.com slash Ramsey for a free product tour and to schedule a time with a NetSuite rep. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Your business can only grow as much as you do. That's all we were just talking about.

That's why you've got to grab the free entree leadership reading guide. Oh, this goes right with that answer. It's packed with 116 of the best leadership and business books ever written. These are the books that shaped me into the leader I am today. They'll give you better advice than most college courses because they come straight from real leaders who've been in the trenches, made the mistakes, and figured out what works and what doesn't. You'll find top book recommendations from New York Times bestselling authors like John Maxwell, James Clear, Vanessa Van

Edwards, along with life-changing books from authors you probably never even heard of. This reading guide is a must for anyone who's serious about growing their business and growing their leadership. Go to Entreeleadership.com slash reading guide to get access today or click the link in the show notes. Sarah's in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Sarah, what's up? Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for the chance to pick your brain. I've been weighing your advice on all things financial since financial peace 20 years ago. Wow. Thank you. I am an owner slash treadmill operator of a pediatric therapy private practice with 18 employees. I've got 15 clinicians and three office staff.

Our revenue is currently at 920K for 2025. We're projected to hit close to a million. we have currently outgrown the building that we've been leasing for two years. And I am wondering how to continue to grow with little or no debt from here. Our current lease ends in May. We are debt-free, but everything else we're looking at lease option-wise is going to require a build-out, and that's going to be costly. We've been projected at $250 to $300K for all the spaces that we're looking at. That's not really an option because you don't have the money.

So what are your, what are your recommendations? I wouldn't do it. That's my recommendation. I wouldn't, I'm not going to go $250,000 in debt for leasehold improvements and somebody else's building. That's dumb. No, I'm not doing that. Absolutely not. You know, now, so how are we going to get, how are we going to expand?

Are you not making a profit on a million dollars? We have very expensive staff. So private practice involved. So why would you want to expand it? if you're not making money. I don't want more of this. Yeah. So I would say because of the clients that we serve,

to be able to serve more clients. I don't want to sell more watermelons if I'm losing 25 cents of watermelon. That's bad business. Your business model's broken. You don't grow a business model that's broken. It's definitely a very small profit margin. Yeah.

So your prices need to go up or your salaries need to go down or both. and then we'll talk about expanding it. And oh, by the way, you'll have the money to expand it then because you'll have this magic thing called profit. But Sarah, you know, you can't run this thing on a shoe string and then go out there and go in debt $250,000 and have a bigger shoe string.

That's not, this is not going to be a blessing in your life. It's going to be very stressful. And it's a recipe for closing up. Yeah, yeah, that's what I've been afraid of. Yeah, you're adding risk to this that's unbelievable. So, yeah, you've got to get your margins straightened out and then talk about expanding, and you will magically have the money to expand at that point. And then the second thing is, let's say that, let's say you are making $250,000 on a million,

which you ought to be doing, okay? And so you get that adjusted and you get your prices up or whatever you've got to do to get the practice management, whatever your processes are that are broken, and you iron the wrinkles out of this thing and start making some money. Good. You've got the ability to do that. I can tell by talking to you. Now, once you're doing that, then how do we make the move?

Well, we find a landlord that wants us in there badly enough to do the leasehold improvements. That's what I did in the early days. The only time I did leasehold improvements was my third move. The first two moves, I didn't have the money. And so I just had to go into an existing thing and use it, the way the floor plate was, the way the plan was. Or I talked to landlord into, hey, you want me in? here, you're going to have to make these moves for me, and then I'll pay you the rent. But I, you know, I'm not going to be investing leasehold improvements into your deal.

The third one, I did put 300,000 in. I had 500,000 cash in the bank at that point, and I got a huge discount on the rent because I told the guy, I'm not going to fix up your building unless you reduce my rent by that much. So I got, I recouped every bit of that in discounted rents, uh, and free rent off the front end, the free rent for the first six months and that kind of thing. So I negotiated my way through with the potential landlords or I walked away. I did have plenty of landlords that looked at me like I was crazy and said, we don't do that. And I'm like, I don't do what you're talking about either. So I guess we don't have a deal. And, but don't fall into the trap of there's only one way to do

this. And, um, uh, and it's been months. And, um, and it's been months. that I don't have to expand and do leasehold improvements in someone else's building. That's a bad plan. So you're going to get yourself in a world of hurt, and you're too smart to do that. I can tell by talking to you. So now let's spend another year getting this thing straightened out. I mean, just ask for a – I'd rather spend a little money on the current place and extend the lease for a year and say, hey, what does it take to get this lease?

Leases coming up in May. We're talking about moving. what if we didn't move for a year? Would you extend it for us? And use that year to get your business model, the wrinkles ironed out of it so you're more profitable, and then start talking about during that time, not getting rushed,

but learning every stinking building in the area, every landlord's motivation in the area, whether they've got the cash in their pocket to do the leasehold improvement, or finding something that needs very little work or very little thing. But a 250, $50,000 leasehold improvement investment in a business that has a million dollar top line is not wise.

Even if you were sitting on the cash, those ratios just don't work. That's not good numbers. It's putting your money in someone else's building and too much of it. So no, not a good plan. Let's keep working the plan, work in the plan, and get it worked down to where those two variables are fixed. The profitability variable and how much leasehold improvement or who's paying for it coming out of my pocket variable. So, hey, good question. You can fix this. You know how.

You just got to push through and don't be normal. That's the big trick. Don't be normal. Hey, Dave, I was in a, Adam in Sacramento says, Dave, I was in a team meeting when one of my senior leaders challenged me in front of everyone. They weren't rude, but it caught me off guard. How do you handle pushback without embarrassing someone or looking weak? Well, a team meeting would sound like a smaller group.

of five or ten, fifteen people or whatever. And if you were in a team meeting in Ramsey, all you would see is pushback. It's all we do. We argue like cats and dogs, and including with me. They argue with me. I argue with them and passionately.

And we don't call him by names. We don't yell. We don't cuss or scream or anything like that. But we're arguing about which play to run to put the ball in the end zone because we all want to win the Super Bowl. and if that's what they're challenging you about, that should be normalized. I want a real leader with a real backbone to have an opinion and to be safe to speak up without being belligerent and go, hey, I don't agree. What?

What? What? Come on, man. You know, I like having a good argument. I get all kinds of good ideas from that. and I'm not by the time the argument's done I still own the company

so I can still decide to do whatever I want to do so I'm not insecure about someone arguing with me and you're not looking weak if you invite people to argue with you as a matter of fact you're looking strong and comfortable on your own skin so Pat Lynchione's book The Advantage

is one of my favorite books of his the thesis of the book is this most organizations have really, really good, talented people that know how to do what they're doing. I mean, if you reach a certain level of success, you've got some thoroughbreds in the stable and leadership, and those thoroughbreds know what to do. The thing that differentiates people, one company from another company, is not whether one has talent and one doesn't. Both of them usually have talent on board. The differentiator is always the organization, the one that has the advantage is the title of the book,

the one that has the advantage is the one that does conflict well, and that does organizational mental health, which allows someone to speak up and challenge any idea. Now, what we don't do is we don't challenge someone's character in public in front of someone else. we don't challenge someone's personal behavior or competency or something like that in front of everyone else that's not what we're doing that's just name calling in a situation like that but challenging the idea that's on the table hey i think there's another way to do this i don't like that let's talk that through help can convince me here i i don't want leaders that are yes people I want leaders that speak their mind and they'll add value to the conversation, but I also want them to be able to stand down and get in line once we've all discussed it.

And once we've all discussed it, I'll look at the room and go, okay, I think the consensus I'm hearing is such and such about this particular idea. And the room will look at me and go, yeah, that's the consensus. And then whoever's not in agreement with that falls in line at that point. because now the decision's made. And now we're not going to go back and challenge it six times. But we put some really difficult and emotional things in the middle of those tables over the years and have argued them through, come to a consensus. Sometimes the consensus decision was wrong, but we did it together,

and we did it with an openness of dialogue that allowed healthy conflict, that allowed healthy organizational mental health where everyone's safe but also cares deeply about the outcome. So this guy arguing with you, he cares. She cares about your company. She cares about the customer. She cares about what's going on. If she's not being political or personal,

then I want more of her or more of him. I want the whole room to act that way. And a matter of fact, when they don't, I'll challenge them. So, but I, you know, I don't know exactly what you were challenged on, but if you were challenged on ideas, good, if you were challenged on your character or something in front of all of them, that wouldn't have gone well for that person in a public meeting. I would have, that would have ended abruptly,

and then there would have been a private meeting following that didn't go well, because we're not going to do that. And I wouldn't do that to them either, by the way, in that setting. So no, no, I'm not going to do that. But yeah, I think you want to invite more of it and pick up Lynchione's book, The Advantage. It gives you an advantage if your organization embraces discussion, argument over the best idea, the best play to call to win the game. And that's what we're looking for in those situations.

Good question, Adam. Thanks for writing that in. Hey, guys, you can help us out by following the show, subscribing to the show, leaving a nice five-star review, or sharing the show with a show, friend. Click the share button if there is one. Click out, cut out the link and send it to somebody. Let them know that Entree leadership's here and we're helping small businesses like crazy, helping leadership discussions like crazy and we're so glad you're with us. Reminder, if you want to be on the show, you can call and set up a time and we'll set you up. We'll get you built into the thing.

844-944-1070. 844-9-4-1070. And Entreleadership.com slash ask, you can fill out the form and we'll get back with you. Matt's in St. Louis. Hey, Matt, how are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, I was just calling. I'm a manager slash technician slash kind of do it all at a small body shop. We have three currently only two employees at this current location. We're on pace this year to do somewhere in the $1.2 to $1.3 million in revenue. My question is, I'm currently being paid simply as a technician. I'm getting paid book rate for what I do. I'm wearing the hat of the manager, the parts guy, the estimator, the painter, a little bit of everything. I'm looking for some guidance on potentially reaching out to ownership on being paid a portion of profit.

Where my question comes in is that there are several team members that are not at my location specifically, but they do play a role in the revenue that my location creates. How? We have one guy that's in sales, so he works for sales for all three of our locations. We have two or three admin positions that are at one of our other locations. That is their primary role is admin there, but they also do serve us as well. How many locations? How many locations this organization have?

three. Okay. All right. I am the smallest of the three, both in revenue, team members, everything. Okay. So they're going to allocate a percentage of these positions to you to calculate the profitability of your location, correct? That would be, this is strictly me thinking at this point. I haven't spoken to anything about it.

That'd be the right way to do it. Even if they have a separate P&L on your location, I don't know if they do or not. but if they run separate P&Ls per location, which they should, they should allocate their overhead across the locations using some methodology. I don't care what. But somehow they need to allocate that. We do that here. I mean, we've got 14 profit centers, and the profit centers absorb rent, HR cost, 401k cost,

all the other miscellaneous costs across the company are rolled into the thing, into each of the P&Ls. what most companies will do is do it based on your percentage of revenue. And so let's pretend that they had $10 million in top line company-wide, and you produce 1.3, then you'd be 13%. Okay. That's a normal way to do it. I just hadn't thought about yet. Yeah, that's a normal way to do it.

And so they just would say, all right, 13% of these miscellaneous office staff that aren't at your location. and if there's any other miscellaneous overhead, there might be insurance or something that you don't, that doesn't show up on your P&L. Your P&L might just be like rent and all of your supplies and your payroll for your three guys, right? That's all that I've been able to figure,

just because that's all that I have access to at this point. I don't have other figures to calculate. Yeah, they may not be running this out that detailed. That's very possible. it wouldn't be unusual for a company your size to have just one big old lump thing back at the office. And they went, yeah, and those guys over there, we could tell what they produced, top line, and they're making money per unit, making margin per wreck that is repaired, right? But we're not really keeping up with anything else.

And so they may not have it dialed in in order to be able to put you on this. In which case, they might pay you as a percentage, a bonus as a percentage of profits for the whole company. It might be easier than resetting their whole accounting system. Okay. And I wouldn't be greedy going to them asking for this, in your opinion? No, I just say, you know, hey, I feel like I'm kind of the manager and the tech over here. And as the manager portion, how can I, I'm really motivated to be an entrepreneur and to help? How can I add value and help?

And if I did that, is there a way I participate in some small way in the profits of the company? or of my location and just see what they say. And just, you know, but I want to have value. I'm excited about learning how to lead at that level. I'm excited about being a business, you know, having some business acumen to go with my ability to do the actual repairs. Okay. And that was, you know, I was initially hired as a technician with the thought that this

would be something at some point in the future that I would be in the role that I am. They told you that when they hired you. Yes. Well, now you're doing it, and now where's the comp? But, I mean, we don't be that, you don't say it that way. You just say, I think when we talked about this, we talked about the idea of me taking this and kind of helping to run this location. And so far I'm being paid, I think, just for being a tech, am I missing something?

And I'd like to learn more and be more valuable to the company and, you know, increase the profitability of this. And in the process, participate somehow in that with my, And, you know, how can we do that? Is there a way that what have you all got in mind and just see what they say? Open-handed like that and how can I add value most business owners except that? It's somebody coming in and thumping and going, I deserve, you owe me. I'm entitled to those belligerent type attitudes don't usually go real well.

Okay. Yep. So just go the opposite direction of that. And I think you'll be in really, really good shape. Matt, thank you, man. Sharp dude. I think they're lucky to have you on the team, bud. Way to go.

Very, very good stuff. Well played, well played, well played. Hey, remember better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high-quality leaders. So take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us on Entree Leadership.