EntreLeadership - Why Your Routines Shape the Future of Your Leadership with Jocko Willink

Episode Date: May 9, 2022

Join us as our host, George Kamel, talks to Jocko Willink. Jocko is a decorated, retired Navy SEAL officer, bestselling author and co-founder of Echelon Front, where he serves as a leadership instructor, speaker and executive coach. In this episode, we talk about why he posts a picture of his watch every morning, what his routine looks like, and what Jocko considers a worthy excuse for skipping that routine. Later in the episode, George chats with Jen Sievertsen, the chief marketing officer here at Ramsey Solutions. Jen shares her morning routine and what she considers a linchpin for her day.   You’ll learn: The real reason Jocko posts pictures of his watch The two keys to achieving success with Jocko If Jocko takes days off Why you can’t afford to skip your morning routine   Sign up for The EntreLeadership Podcast takeaways—a weekly email where you’ll get three tangible takeaways and a tactical action step related to each episode: https://bit.ly/podcast-takeaways   Support our sponsors: BELAY: https://bit.ly/33SwBlO Hite Digital: https://bit.ly/HiteDigital NetSuite: https://bit.ly/NetSuiteEntre Kyro Digital: https://bit.ly/KyroDigital Trainual: https://bit.ly/TrainualEntre   Links mentioned in the episode: The EntreLeadership Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheEntreLeadershipPodcast Jocko Willink’s website: https://bit.ly/3s0HYBB Discipline Equals Freedom by Jocko Willink: https://amzn.to/38yZl5C Jocko playing guitar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rxKH4KrPvE Get your Summit livestream ticket: https://bit.ly/3LtOatB Schedule a call with Tim, our producer: https://bit.ly/3bJOSmi   Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: EntreLeadership Summit: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipSummit EntreLeadership Master Series: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipMasterSeries   Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: Elite: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipElite Advisory Groups: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipAdvisoryGroups Executive Coaching: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipExecutiveCoaching Workshops: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipWorkshops Weekly Report Tool: https://bit.ly/WeeklyReportTool   Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download the Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today's episode, why your morning and evening routines shape your leadership future. Then, how that morning routine fuels creativity, strategic planning, and emotional intelligence. From the Ramsey Network, I'm George Camel, and this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where we help business leaders like you grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. Thanks for joining me today. Coming up, I talk with Jock Willink, a decorated retired Navy SEAL officer, best-selling author, and co-founder of Echelon Front. where he's a leadership instructor, speaker, and executive coach.

I'm going to talk to Jocko about why he posts pictures of his watch every morning, what his routine looks like, and we find out what Jocko considers a worthy excuse for skipping the routine. So let's jump right in. Here's my conversation with Jocko. Jock, so great to have you back on the podcast. Hey, thanks for having me. Good to see you. So I was just up perusing Instagram, and of course, I see your daily posts.

I don't know if it's for accountability or if it's to impress me. but about four something in the morning every day, you post a picture of your watch. What's the deal with that? What is the deal with that? So when I first kind of started entering the world publicly, I was on Tim Ferriss's podcast. And when I met Tim Ferriss, he was a great guy.

He still is a great guy. He's a good friend. But he was telling me I needed to get on social media. And he told me to get on Twitter. And I kind of asked him what Twitter was, what's it all about? And he said, well, you know, it's a great platform. You can get introduced to a lot of different people.

You can meet a lot of different people. You can get a bunch of information. It's just you need to do it. You know, just sign up and then I'll talk you through kind of how it works. And so I signed up. He never talked me through how it works, never told me anything about it other than to sign up. So good on you, Tim. But he knew that it's a very intuitive tool anyways.

So I had this platform, the Twitter platform, and I didn't know what to put on it. Just what would someone want to see? But Tim and I on his podcast had talked about the fact that I woke up early and, you know, it's a good way for me to get a jump on the day, get up before the enemy, start working. And so one morning when I got Twitter, I just took a picture of my watch because it was, you know, four, 40 or something in the morning. I took a picture of my watch. I posted it and then I went about my day and a bunch of people that had just, I guess, been introduced to me through Tim Ferriss, kind of posted their watches, and then I just kept doing it. So that's how it started.

And now it's become your thing, which I love. And people love it because it also holds them accountable to their own routines and to their own goals. And that's become the bigger, the bigger picture. I think it definitely has caught on a lot of people do it. A lot of people just reply to me and post their watch. And, you know, then there's the other side of things as people say, you know, what are you doing? you need to sleep. Sleep is good for you. And they're right. Sleep is good for you. And you should

sleep. You should get plenty of sleep. That's how you rest. That's how you recover. So I'm not anti-sleep. But I do think if you're waking up at 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock in the morning, you're missing out on some key hours of productivity. And your life would probably be better if you went to bed earlier and you woke up earlier. Yeah, especially for leaders out there who, you know, they've got a lot on their play. they have to be very mentally sharp to be able to lead their teams and do what they need to do. So what is your normal morning routine? You get up. Today was 419 in the morning. What happens next? Get up, you know, brush my teeth, do all that. And then I go work out. You know, I spend a hour and a half, maybe two hours, hopefully, I want a half to two hours working out, stretching, running, that kind of thing.

You know, I have the luxury of having an ice bath in my house. So I spend, you know, five or seven minutes in my ice bath when I get done working out in the morning, and that feels good. I'm still cold right now, actually. So, yeah, that's what I do. Wake up, workout. That's really simple. Really simple, not easy. Yeah, your post-workout said keep struggling. So what are your thoughts on struggling, not only in your routine, but just as a leader? Yeah, I think what I wrote was it's a struggle. It's always a struggle. Keep struggling. So if you ever get to a point, where you think, wow, doesn't this get easier? No, it doesn't.

It doesn't get easier. It's not going to get easier. It's always going to be a struggle. That's the way things are. That's the way the world is. Well, anything that's worthwhile, I guess it's not a struggle to sit in your bed and watch TV. But that's not going to get you anywhere.

So doing something productive, doing something that's going to make you better is always going to be a struggle. And so, yes, keep struggling. From a leadership perspective, same thing. The minute that you're thinking, well, you know, I'm a leader and I already know what I'm doing and no one, no one's going to surprise me, well, that's when you're going to get surprised. So as a leader, when you're leading a team and you're growing a team, there's going to be struggles all the time. You're always going to have a person that just came on board that maybe doesn't

understand what it is we're trying to get done. And you're going to have some unexpected competitor that comes out of the woodwork and starts attacking what you're doing or they come up with a great product that now you've got to compete with. It's going to be a struggle. Life is going to be a struggle. So keep struggling. You also have this saying discipline equals freedom. Everyone, that's one of your great taglines. How does that process unfold for you as you compare discipline and freedom? What kind of freedom is on the other side for those leaders out there? In an organization, well, for an individual, I mean, the more discipline you have in your life, the more freedom you're going to have. So financial discipline is the easy one. Anyone that is

listening to this show understands the fact that if you have financial discipline, that's how you'll end up with financial freedom and you'll get to yell freedom at the top of your lungs, right? That's really clear. That comes, financial freedom comes through financial discipline. Free time. Everybody wants more free time. How are you going to get more free time? Have more discipline time management.

But the same is also true when you're in a leadership position of your organization. And when you have a disciplined organization and everyone understands the standard operating procedures and the methodologies that we're using. When everyone understands that, it gives you a lot more freedom to operate, gives you a lot more freedom to maneuver. gives you a lot more freedom to make things happen. It gives you as a leader when you've got your team working effectively and you've empowered your team. It gives you the freedom to look up and out instead of down and in at your team. I don't want to be doing the things that my team should be doing. I don't want to have to hold their hand. I don't want to have to babysit them. I want to say, hey, George, here's the mission. Go figure out how you want to make it happen. And then I want to look at

where we're going next. Look at the next market area. I want to look at our next project that we're going to work on. Our next client that we're going to go and work with, I don't want to be looking at what you're working on. That's what you're doing. So when you have discipline inside your organization, it gives you much more freedom to maneuver. Yeah. And a lot of people are bought in on that, and the team's going, okay, I get that. I'm here for that. How do you engage with people who don't have that mindset? Can you get them on board? What part of the mindset? I mean, if they're not disciplined, they don't understand, you know, how this is going to lead to this. They don't have the same mindset that you do

of just like, well, we're going to do this. Here's how we're going to do it. This is going to create freedom in this area. How do you get people on board who aren't necessarily, you know, they're not on mission? You know, I think that one of the best tools and one of the most underrated tools as a leader, the first one is listening. And I spend most of my time as a leader listening to what other people say.

And that's counterintuitive, right? Everyone thinks the leader is the one that's standing up barking orders. But I didn't do that when I was in the military. And I don't do that now with any of the companies that I, that I lead right now. So as a leader, listen to what people have to say. But in a situation where I, like this, where I've got George and George is not on board

with what we're doing, well, what I say is, hey, hey, George, can you tell me what you're thinking? Because I want to just make sure I understand your perspective and why you don't think this is going to be effective. And then I'm going to do what I just said, which is I'm going to listen to what you have to say. I'm going to ask you earnest questions.

I'm not going to, I'm not asking you accusatory questions. George, what is wrong with you? That's not what I'm doing. I'm saying, hey, George, we got this new protocol for once we talk to a client of this, you know, data sheet that we're going to fill out. And I noticed that you haven't been doing it. I wanted to know why aren't you doing it? Is there something that is encumbering you to get it done?

Is there something that you don't think it's efficient? Can you talk to me and give me some feedback so we can improve the process? And then I'm actually going to listen to what you have to say. Because you might say to me, yeah, well, when I'm on the phone and I'm talking to someone, I don't feel like I can sit there and take notes and really engage with the client. Oh, okay. Well, have you thought about maybe hit and record and tell him, hey, I'm going to record this so I have some good notes.

And that way you can take notes afterwards. You can have that information. That way, when you follow up with this client three months later, you can take a quick look, refresh your memory, and you can be more efficient and effective in talking to that client. And he said, oh, no, I really haven't thought of that. Okay, well, do you think we could try? So you see what I'm saying?

I'm going to ask you earnest questions. So when people aren't on board with my plan, first of all, I don't even want to come up with a plan. I'd rather have you come up with the plan. I'd rather have my team come up with the plan because then I'm not trying to convince them of anything. They're already bought into it. But if I do have an idea and I do get to a point where I'm presenting the idea to the team and someone on the team doesn't like the idea, I'm going to ask earnest questions and try and figure out what it is they don't like about it.

Because, George, you're on the front line. You're on the one that's actually interacting with the clients. I'm up talking to, you know, the board members. You're down there. So wouldn't it be very conceivable that you have a better understanding about some piece of paperwork I'm asking you to fill out? Yes, it would. So why not ask some earnest questions and try and improve the process rather than simply impose the process upon you, which, by the way, you're not going to like because no one, no matter what the food is, no one, no one likes it. food, any food, when it's shoved down their throat.

It doesn't matter if it's tiramisu or carrot cake or whatever dessert you might like. If I force it down your throat, you're not going to like it. So it's not a good idea as a leader to force your ideas onto the rest of the team. That's good. You got to empower them. You've got to listen. You got to ask great questions. That's what the best leaders do.

So true. So with this idea of routines and discipline, It all comes down to actions and does your belief match up to your actions? How important is that as a leader to have those things match up into a line? Without belief, you're not going to get anywhere, right? Without believing what you're doing, you're not going to make any progress at all. But belief by itself is not going to move the needle, right? You can sit there and believe all day that you're going to make a bunch of money

or you're going to get in physical shape or you're going to learn how to play guitar. you can believe that. You can sit there and believe that as hard as you want. But you're not going to get healthy. You're not going to get rich. And you're not going to learn how to play guitar unless you take action. So belief is powerful. And you have to believe in what you're doing.

You have to believe it's possible. And by the way, to me, you know, people talk about, you know, if you can believe it, you can achieve it. Well, like I just said, without action, you're not going to achieve anything at all. So it's not just this sort of saying that you throw out there. you've got to back that belief up with actions. And that's what you have to do as a human to make progress in the world. So as a leader who maybe isn't consistent with that,

what does that do to the team? What's the fallout for that leader whose beliefs and behaviors don't align? Does that cause a loss of trust with the team? Oh, if the leaders not acting in a way that purports to the beliefs that they have, yeah, that's not going to work out well. Your team is watching you. And this is something I had the luxury of when I joined the military, when I joined the seal teams, I was the youngest and I was the most junior guy in my first two seal platoons.

And when I was in that position, I sat there and watched and looked and judged the people that were in charge of me. And if they were two minutes late to a meeting, I'd be tracking it. Oh, I see you're two minutes late for the meeting, huh? This isn't that important to you. You can't even show up on time. if they forgot a piece of gear, I'd be thinking, oh, there you go. You can't even bring the right gear. So what I learned as a young seal, a young junior seal in the seal teams is that your troops are watching you. And so, yes, if you're in a leadership position and your behaviors don't match

what you say or what you claim to believe, everyone's going to see through it and they're not going to follow you. They're just not going to follow you. You have to absolutely back up your beliefs with your actions, and everyone, when you're in a leadership position, everyone is watching. Yeah, that's a next level responsibility. And we say around here, more is caught than taught. Usually it's around, we're talking about kids watching their parents handle money, but I think the same thing applies to the troops looking at the leader, the team member looking at the leader going, hold on, you said this, but I see you doing this. And therefore, I can't trust you. And therefore, we're going to have a very different working relationship.

And the results are going to be different, too, when it comes to the revenue, the culture, of those pieces than have a domino effect. Oh, yeah. And I'll be quite frank with you. As a leader, you better perform above the standards that you're holding. You can't say, hey, well, you know, I want everyone to be in here by 8 o'clock in the morning and then you show up at 7.59. That doesn't cut it as a leader.

You better get there well ahead of anyone else. That's what you better do. If you expect people to stay until 5 o'clock and you're scooting out of the office at Two, it doesn't work. And if you're scooting out of the office right at five o'clock, well, you're showing everyone that that's the level of dedication you have. You need to stay until the job is done. That's what people need to understand.

So you need to set the standard for yourself, set the standard for the team. But then for yourself, you need to hold yourself to an even higher standard because they are watching in a most profoundly judgmental way. Yeah. Good reminder there. So, Jocco, you're incredibly productive. I think we can all agree on that, and you don't seem to waste any time.

So I'm curious how you view things like creativity and playfulness and rest. Are those a necessary part of your routine? And how do you weave them in if so? Well, yeah, I mean, I do a lot of things that have to be creative. I mean, I've written a bunch of books that are novels, you know, that are fiction that I've made up in my own head, a bunch of kids' books that were all made up in my own head. I've written adult books that are made up in my head. of course, I've written a bunch of nonfiction books as well.

I play music in a band. I have a podcast that I have to put together, and that's a creative process of how I'm going to string together and stories for that podcast and interviewing people and whatnot. So, yeah, you're constantly having to do creative things. You're having to make things. So for me, I would say I do it in a bit of a mechanical way, meaning okay.

What I do, for instance, when I'm writing a book, whether the book is fiction or nonfiction, is I'm going to write a thousand words a day, which takes me about an hour. I sit down and I write a thousand words a day no matter what. I don't care if I throw away 900 of those thousand words. I don't care if I throw away all those words because they weren't good enough,

I'm still going to sit down and write. And by the way, you're never going to throw away them all. And also, you might write a thousand words and realize this was a bad direction to go. And then you say, well, good. Now I know not to go any further than that. direction. So that's okay. So even when it comes to creativity, there has to be a level of discipline that you, that you impose on yourself to make sure that you are getting the work done.

So for me, even with creativity, you have to do it in a structured way. And that's exactly what I do. When I do something creative, I buckle down and I set a time and I go and get my creative on. Now, listen, do I sometimes have ideas when I'm in the middle of? of a workout? Yes, I absolutely do. Do I sometimes wake up in the middle of night with a good idea? Yes, I do. And in both those cases, I immediately write my idea down. I don't stop my workout, but I'll take 30 seconds to write down five key words from my idea on the direction I'm going to go in a book or an idea that I have for a song. I'll immediately stop what I'm doing, take 30 seconds, write down that idea, and then I'll go back and process it later. Because the ideas can be hard

to come up with. It can be difficult to sit there and grind an idea out. out of your head. But I can tell you this, not grinding on your brain, not squeezing your brain for ideas, the no ideas are gonna come out. So you might get occasionally, you get the gift of an idea, the gift of a creative idea just shows up

while you're in the middle of a run. Great, take 30 seconds, stop the run, write down what this idea is. Most of my ideas came when I was squeezing my brain, sitting there thinking, all right, here's the concept that I want to, want to get across, what a story, what story would make that concept clear? Okay, here's a good storyline. Let's think through that. Most of the ideas that I've come up with were not gifts

that came out of nowhere. Most of them I created almost by force of will. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good reminder. Sometimes you just got to grind it out and sometimes it's a gift and both are important. So don't count on the gifts though. Don't count. Don't sit around waiting for inspiration. Banking on inspiration. to hit you. It's not going to hit you. You need to, if you get that, great. That's probably two ideas out of every 10 that come in the middle of a run or come in the middle of the night. Eight ideas out of 10 are ones that you force to come out of your brain.

So when it comes to all this discipline and these routines, is there ever a worthy excuse where you go, all right, I slip today? You know, I'm sure you've had days where there was some kind of failure. I mean, maybe not for you. For the average person, you might miss a workout day, you miss the routine, something comes up with family. What is a worthy excuse to lose that level of discipline for the day? No, I mean, what? A broken water heater, a kid calls from school, sick, kid throwing up all through, I got four kids, you know, I've done all, every one of these things that can happen has happened to me. You know, the kid throwing up in the middle night, you're up all night with a little kid. You could take into the hospital, taking the emergency room,

water heater's broken, floors flooded, car one, you name it, all these things. Life happens. Life happens. That's one of the reasons I say when people say, oh, do you ever take a day off? I say not voluntarily because life is going to give you days off where you can't, let's say, physically exercise because you got to take your kid to the emergency room because they slipped and cut their head open. Okay, well, you just got a day off. Sometimes travel. Look, I like to work out when I have to travel.

I like to work out before I travel. But sometimes, you know, it's a, that would mean I'd have to get up at 2.30 in the morning. and now I'm on four hours of sleep or three hours sleep. I know that's not healthy. So you know what? Travel day with a really early flight, maybe that ends up being my day off. Look, life is going to give you days off.

No big deal. If you slip off the path, if you fall off the path, and maybe just feel like crap in the morning. That's okay. Now I can tell you, here's one small rule that I do have. If I get in that mode of where I feel tired, like, oh, I think I'm overworked, I think I'm over-training.

I think maybe I should just take today off. I won't take that day off. I won't take that day off. I'll say, okay, if I'm still tired tomorrow, okay, I get it. But if I wake up 4.30 in the morning, I go, man, I really don't feel like working out today. I think I might be overtraining.

Cool. I'm going to go work out right now. If I feel the same way tomorrow, then I get the day off. You don't want to make, you don't want to rationalize the situation, right? You don't want to give yourself an opportunity to say, well, you know, I'm, because there's a million excuses you can come up with at 4.30 in the morning. I'm overtrained. I need more sleep.

I need more rest. I think my sargadium cycle is off. Whatever excuse you want to come up with at 4.30 in the morning, you can do it. You're smart. You can win that debate all day long. That's why I don't negotiate. I don't negotiate those things. I say, oh, if I'm still feeling tired tomorrow, I'll take a day off.

Cool. Got it. But don't take today off. Save it for tomorrow. I like that plan. So as we wrap here, there's a lot of people who don't feel like they're wired like Jock, or they just have this level of discipline, 4.30 every morning, they're up there doing their routine without fail. How can people develop that

discipline? Can they get there if they don't feel like they're wired a certain way? Yeah. So first of all, 430 is kind of arbitrary, right? That's what works for me. That's not what works for everybody. Everybody has a different life. Everyone has a different, everyone needs a different amount of sleep. If you want to wake up earlier, what you need to do is start waking up earlier. And you don't need to wake up at 430. But I would say what I would recommend, to start off by waking up a half an hour earlier than you normally wake up. Try that. And listen, you can't just do it for one day. You've got to do it for three, four, five, six days in a row, because what will eventually happen, you'll start going to bed a little bit earlier. That's what you

want. You wake up with an extra half hour in the morning. That is 20 minutes of exercise. That is 20 or 30 minutes of whatever, you know, you're trying to write a book. That's 20 or 30 minutes of writing. That's 500 words of progress. You need to craft a couple emails to some clients that you haven't reached out to. 30 minutes, you can get that done. Oh, you get your morning routine done and now you have a half an hour to sit there

and have breakfast with your kids before they go off to school. But a half an hour, if you utilize it correctly, is a huge amount of time. So don't sit here and say, oh, I want you to wake up at 4.30 the morning. No, but if you normally wake up at 7, try getting up at 6.30.

Try getting up at 6.30. And when the alarm clock goes off, get out of bed. People say, how do you wake up so early in morning? I'll tell you I wake up so early in the morning. When the alarm clock goes off, I get up and get out of bed. That's what I do. That's the magic.

That's the secret. That's it. When the alarm clock goes off, get up and get out of bed. And the first few days, you'll be a little bit more tired. Good. Go to bed earlier. Because you're not doing anything productive at 10.30 at night. That's true.

You're not. You're surfing the internet. You're looking at some stupid social media algorithm that's programmed to actually waste your time, to take your time away from you. That's what it's been programmed to do. And you're just sliding into the algorithm and being part of it.

So don't do that. Go to bed earlier, turn off your phone, and wake up and be productive with your life. That's so good. So we talked a lot about morning routine, Jocko. Do you do anything specific in the evening to kind of wind down? You know, reading makes me tired.

And I always have to read because I'm always reading books for my podcast. So reading makes me tired and there's nothing, I don't think there's anything that that makes me more tired. It makes me want to fall asleep more than reading a book. So I usually have two or three books that I'm reading at a time. And if there's one that's a really, let's say a really exciting book or there's a really exciting section book, I won't read that one before I go to bed. But I've got some other book that I'm reading that I'm trying to learn about some aspect of psychology.

It's a little bit dry. Maybe I'll read that book at night and that'll send me. to sleep. So I think reading is a good, good thing to send you to sleep at the end of the night. Yeah, as long as it's dry enough. Don't read a Jocko book. You'll get too pumped up. You'll never sleep. Save that for the great time. Well, Jocko, this has been awesome. I think this conversation is the kick in the pants that our leaders needed. I know I needed it to encourage us that discipline equals freedom and we can gain that discipline no matter how we think we're wired, no matter what the excuse is. So we're proud to know you. Thank you for encouraging our audience.

today and we're excited to have you at Entree Leadership Summit in Orlando. Right on. I'm looking forward to it as well. It's a great event. Huge thanks to Jocko for taking the time to talk with us. Looks like I've got to set my alarm a little bit earlier tomorrow. Now, as many of you know, Jock will be joining us at Entree Leadership Summit later this month, May 22nd through the 25th. And we've already sold out of seats for the in-person event, but you can still be a part of our live stream experience. This event is going to energize your leadership and transform your business.

So this is your reminder to get your live stream ticket today if you haven't already. Just go to Entreleadership.com slash live stream to learn more and reserve your digital seat. All right, coming up, we're going to be talking about how your morning routine can fuel creativity, strategic planning, and emotional intelligence. We're going to have a conversation about that right after this. All right, coming up, I talk with Jen Sieverson, our chief marketing officer here at Ramsey Solutions. We're going to talk about her morning routine and how it helps her be more effective in her role as CMO. She's also going to share the one part of her routine that she considers a linchpin for her day.

Here's our conversation. Jen, it's so great to have you on the podcast. Oh, so happy to be here. So back in the day, you were actually my leader. And I got to watch. Way back in the day. Yeah. So you've seen me grow from a child to now, just a bigger child, which is fun.

It is fun. But it's an honor to get to sit down with you and talk to you about something that I know you're really good at, which is the morning routine. Well, I'm very passionate about it for sure. sure yes it's a it's a part of your life where you have a lot of discipline and I'm very curious as to the professional connection to that very personal thing so let's get into it what is your morning routine well my morning routine starts the evening before you probably guessed that but I did not that just threw me for a loop okay so what happens the evening before if I don't have certain things set up and ready to go for the next day the evening before I feel like my morning starts off

wrong. And the other thing that it helps me with is making sure that I get to bed at a great time so that I get a really good night's sleep. Another thing I'm very passionate about, doesn't have to be like nine hours of great sleep. Seven hours is fine, but it needs to be a good night's sleep. And so I started the night before by getting the things I can prepare for the next day, just prepared and set up so that in the morning, everything is really calm and there's not chaos in the morning routine. And then in the mornings, I get up pretty early. Give us the time here. Four to four 30. You and Jocko, both on the same schedule. Very impressive. Yeah, but I do go to bed early, too. I mean, just to... So, 8.30? By 9, usually. Yeah, by 9. And so I get up and, you know,

first thing is really starting my day off for me with some quiet time. So for me, that is reading, that's journaling, that's praying, that's really spending some time kind of before the day happens to me, I get to happen to that part of the day. Sometimes I'll meditate as part of that. Like, I've got different varieties, if you will, that will play into that morning routine depending on what's going on at that particular time. But that's really important to me. Even if it's not a super long period of time, it's really important.

Yeah. So quiet time is key here. Quiet time is the first thing I do. And then beyond that, obviously, you're getting ready for the day. Are there any other crucial elements that you would say, if I don't do this, my day is thrown off? Several mornings a week, I will exercise after that. So that's not every morning, but several, usually three mornings, three to, and plus the weekends. And so do that, and then I get ready for the day.

But I will say that the one thing that's also a non-negotiable for me is sending my kids off. in a calm way. So I will plan my whole morning to make sure that I'm in the kitchen when they're walking out the door. And now I only have one child left at home. So it's kind of sad. But, and he drives himself, but making sure that I'm in the kitchen to kind of send him off, I've always had a goal as a mom to kind of do my part to try to wish my kids, you know, well into the day. Again, if his day is chaos after that, at least I feel like maybe I've done one little thing to hopefully have him, you know, give him a smile before he's left the house for the day. And so those are my two non-negotiables, quiet time and sending my kids off.

And have a touch point with the kids. An intentional touch point, even if it's quick. Yeah, that's awesome. So what role does all of this stuff play in fueling things like creativity and strategic planning in your job as a CMO? Yes. believe it or not, I see a very direct correlation between that intentional time in the morning and what I have to do throughout the day. So pretty regularly, I feel like I am trying to solve problems or figure out next steps for things that I don't feel equipped to do.

But in that quiet time and through journaling, through really spending intentional time, I feel like that's where I may not get the full answer to whatever. problems on the table, but I usually can really think through and get inspiration for the next right thing. The next right thing to do as this problem or new strategy or new approach to something is moving forward. That is when I have time to really do that very intentional thinking about it. And that's what gives me clarity on what the right next thing to do is. And so for me, there's a direct correlation between the problem solving for the problems for the day or the week or the month or the year sometimes and that time that I have it in the morning. Wow. So it sounds like if you want to be creative, you want to be strategic, you have to get quiet. For me,

I've not found another way. The problem solving doesn't come to me in the middle of a crazy day that's filled with meetings or, you know, things that you didn't expect to happen end up happening. That's not when I get answers, you know, to problems. I get it when I pause and intentionally spend time really thinking that through or trying to investigate intellectually the different angles of what solving that problem could be. You can be thoughtful about it. That's right. In those moments of stillness. That's powerful. This routine doesn't just help with things like creativity and mental clarity, but can also help with things like self-awareness and emotional intelligence. How has this played out for you here, Ramsey? Yeah, I think for

me, it keeps me calm by and large, not perfectly, but it tends to keep me grounded and calm so that as the things that come up that you don't expect to come up, it's like you can kind of, okay, well, I can pause because I've had this time at the beginning of the day when I was intentional about how I spent my time. So I can deal with these unexpected things that are coming in my way. So I feel like anybody in business, really in any role that they have, you're pretty regularly dealing with things you weren't expecting, right? And if I haven't been intentional at the front of my day to where I could have control over a scenario, then later on in the day when I no longer have control, I can kind of pause and something about

having that beginning of the day, it grounds me to deal with that chaos. So if you wake up and you're instantly thrown into reactive chaos, that's probably how you're going to be at work, too. That's right, for sure. And there's times, you know, that happens, right? That happens to everybody. Something goes wrong that you weren't expecting and you were up late and your alarm didn't go off or something. You know, and you wake up and you're like, wow, that happens once every 10 years, but it just happened, right? Or something happens with the kids in the middle of the night or something. And it starts your day. off in chaos, I feel like that chaos follows me the rest of the day, and I'm just waiting till I can get to bed that night so that hopefully the next day can be reset and start off, hopefully, on a clean slate. Versus just compounding day after day because you never got that. That's right.

And what's interesting is I wasn't always as disciplined about my morning routine. I'm a pretty disciplined person, so I won't say it was complete chaos even when I was younger, but I wasn't nearly as disciplined as I am today. And once I unlock how much freedom that that discipline actually gives me, I don't know. Now it's something I can't live without just because it gives me so much comfort. And I don't know. I just, I'm so much happier and more content going through my days because I've been this disciplined on the front end. Yeah, that's an important piece of the puzzle here is to realize that at first it's kind of like, oh, gosh, I've got to get up and do this thing.

And over time, you look forward to it because you know how. it's going to make the rest of your day go. That's right. And so when you look at it with that kind of vision, it changes the way you see the morning routine. Yeah, yeah. And also in the morning, like during that quiet time, I'm thinking about the things that I have coming up that day and making sure that, okay, I'm ready to tackle those things

that I do know about that are on the agenda or maybe later the week. It reduces that anxiety because you've already thought about it. You're prepared for it. That's huge. So I'm sure you're not perfect As much as I think you may be What do you find yourself feeling on those days When the routine gets skipped

It gets messed up, the kids sick The age fact went out Those kinds of things happen Yeah, it just If it's once in a while It's not that big a deal But if there's several days like that in a row Where the routine is out of sorts

I just, I feel out of sorts Like I have a hard time feeling anything but chaotic on those days. And I have to work really hard to just keep myself, you know, focused on the task at hand. It's like my focus is off, clarity is off, and I just feel like I'm less productive and less effective. Yeah.

And I'm sure there's other pieces to that, you know, diet and exercise and some of the things that you mentioned to keep that mental clarity and keep the poise that you have as a CMO. Yes. So if there was one part of the routine, that any leader listening could implement, what would it be? What is that linchpin moment for your day? I think you have to figure out what it is for you,

but I think everybody needs to have that intentional time where they are happening to their day, which usually is only kind of the time when nobody else is awake and the day hasn't started happening to you. For some people, it could be the evening before that they actually do that, that kind of quiet time and that reflective time,

I think you need that time, even if it's short, to really focus somewhat inwardly so that then the rest of your time can be focused outwardly during your day. So it's not about you've got to become a morning person. It's about being an intentional person who blocks off that time to focus inward. Yeah. And I think it's going to look different for different people. But I think you do have to be intentional about that time. Well, Jen, I'm proud to work alongside and underneath amazing leaders like yourself.

Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Thank you, George. I had fun. Thank you so much, Jen, for joining us on the podcast. Now, just a reminder, if you want to grab a live stream ticket to Entree Leadership Summit, you'll get to see Jocko alongside Dave Ramsey, Nick Saban, Pat Lynchoni, Dr. Henry Cloud, Jamie Kernelima, and more. So why I choose the live stream? Well, no travel.

You get the lowest possible price. You get to watch with your team. You get to access the replay, and you get exclusive content. This event will energize your leadership and transfer. your business. So get your live stream ticket today if you haven't already. Just go to Entreeleadership.com slash live stream to learn more and reserve your digital seat. Hope you enjoyed today's episode of the show. If you did, I want to challenge you to share this with three people on your team or in your circle. And if you really enjoyed it, leave us a review

wherever you listen to podcasts. There's one guy in particular who'd love to hear what you think about this podcast, and it's our producer, Tim. He wants to know what you like, what you don't like and what improvements we should make. So if you want to talk to Tim and share your feedback, just use the link in the show notes. If you want to keep up with us on social media, you can always follow us at Entree Leadership. This episode was produced by Tim Hull, edited by Jacob Harrison, and mixed and mastered by Will Rudder. I'm your host, George Camel, and on behalf of the entire Entree leadership team, thanks for listening.

Until next time, keep learning and keep leading. Hey, if you're a fan of this podcast, we've got more where that came from. As you know, at Ramsey, we're always looking to protect our listeners from scummy companies, slick marketing, and money myths. I'm George Camel, host of the Fine Print, where I do the research for you to help you rise above the system that's designed to keep you broke and in debt so that you can become confident in your money choices. Check out the Fine Print wherever you listen to podcasts.