Epic Real Estate Investing - Aaron Chapman – CFO to His Clients | 785

Episode Date: September 24, 2019

Meet Aaron Chapman, a branch manager real estate finance at Security National Mortgage Company, who will tell you how investing in turnkey properties can make you successful in a fast-paced real estate business, even if you are a busy professional. Learn why communication is very important for succeeding in real estate, why you should not worry about rising interest rates, and what the benefits of turnkey property are. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Terio Media. So you want to be a real estate investor, but you don't want to do the work. If there were only a way where someone else could do it for you, now there is. Tune in here each and every Saturday on the Epic Real Estate Investing Show for Turnkey Saturdays with your host, Mercedes Torres. Hello and welcome. Welcome to the Turnkey portion of Epic Real Estate Investing podcast. As I say every week, my name is Mercedes-Torres.

and I am lucky enough to be partners in crime with Mr. Matt Terrio, the gentleman who created the epic real estate investing empire. As most of you know, we are now on a daily release. And Saturday, we are focusing on turnkey real estate investing, not only because we see that there's an amazing opportunity in this changing market, but really my goal is to help busy professionals who understand the importance of real estate that just don't have the time or don't want to learn every single detail on how to do real estate. My goal is to simplify it so that you can understand that it is very possible for you to do as well. And on today's show, we have a very special guest on our show. Well, you know, I often say all of my guests are special,

But this gentleman is extremely special because not only has he become a top-notch lender in our industry, he's become a personal friend and confidant, but more so he's become that go-to person that helps epic real estate and their turnkey clients, understand that turnkey real estate investing is the way to the future. Aaron has been in the space of mortgage banking and specifically lending to turnkey real estate investors. And he likes to classify himself as CFO to his client. So I'm going to let Aaron do the introducing and explaining who he is. So please, ladies and gentlemen, help me welcome Mr. Aaron Chapman to our show from Security Financial Mortgage. Aaron, how the heck are you, buddy?

Doing very well. Did you do it all that in one breath? I did. You know, us Puerto Ricans, we have it in our soul to just talk. So welcome, Eric. Us half-breed hairlessness, we got to dig deep. So you guys just got it right there on the surface. You know what?

We got it. This is when you know I'm Puerto Rican when I can just go. And that's just how I roll, Aaron. Well, that's how our relationship has worked. well just because it's like a wind-up toy. You just set it on and just goes and I love it. That is true. You know, I've been fortunate enough to be working with you.

I don't know, maybe it's been five years, but I love everything about, you know, who you are and what your team is and what you're doing. So that's one of the reasons I invited you on the show. I often talk about how surrounding yourself with the right people and having the perfect teammates on your team that I'm only get you, but that compliment you. And that is exactly who you are for Epic. So thank you for joining me on our podcast. And enough about, you know, why I absolutely love you. I want the world to know, you know, who you are and what you do for, you know, our Epic turnkey clients. So, Aaron, tell me about yourself. Tell me about Mr. Aaron Chapman.

Well, it depends on how far back you want to go. I mean, I have a pretty interesting background with people drag it out of me. You know, grew up on a cattle ranch in central Utah. I went from there to the oil field to Wyoming. And then that point it came back, came to Arizona, worked in running heavy equipment, drove truck, worked on a top field pick crew. I was in the mines in New Mexico in 1997 when they shut down that project. I loved that job.

Who doesn't want to tunnel underground 700 feet and play with explosives? It was an amazing job. But they shut it down because the production. wasn't there. And I was one of the first to get laid off. And I was working with my dad. It was an awesome experience. Hard rock mining, drilling, blasting. And when I had to separate from that and come back to Arizona, I had a wife and the son. And I thought I'd find a job easy because I had a really good background. And I couldn't find one to save my life. Literally, I was got to a point where I was trying to get a truck driving job at $10 an hour at a whole landscape materials. And they told me

I was too overqualified. I was sitting in that parking lot in my pickup, literally shedding tears because I didn't know what I was going to do. We were dead broke, and I had a wife and a kid with support. And on my way to pick up diapers for my son, he was an infant, my wife gave me a coupon, be able to give us some diapers, we had no money. And I stopped on the way my engine, not my engine light, but my gas light popped up on my truck saying that I was out of fuel.

So I pulled up to where there was a fuel station and the grocery store, I need to go. I went to swipe my car to fill up my truck and I got a decline on my car. I had no cash. So I spent the next hour walking around that parking lot looking for change, digging through my truck, looking for change. I got enough change to get two gallons of gas, went into the grocery store, got that box of diapers that matched the coupon as I'm walking out. I bumped into a guy who's doing all the schedule work for a excavation company to dig swimming pools for like two years before. He asked me what I was doing. I explained the scenario.

He said, let me take you to dinner. I got a gift card to go to Red Lobster from a client. So he took me and my wife up the next night. He introduced me to the mortgage industry. So at that point, he introduced me his broker. He gave me a card for a guy to call. He made a call ahead of time for me. I went in, interviewed him with this guy's 23 years old.

My hair was down to my shoulders. I had to chop a bunch of hair off, find some clean clothes. And they put me on as a telemarketer 20, 21 years ago. Actually, 21 years ago next month. Wow. You know, Erin, I've known you for five years, and I did not know that story, and it literally gave me chills. So, thank you for sharing down deep. So what year was it when you jumped into the mortgage banking or telemarketing and you started telemarketing? So what year was this? December of 1997. 97. Wow. And so how did we go from telemarketing to what you have now? Because it's impressive. It's sheer sheer grit. I remember doing that process. process of telemarketing. I got 10 good leads out of that. I asked if I could work the leads.

So they introduced me to one of the other loan officers that was there in the brokerage and says, he will train you. I go, what's training mean? He said, well, you got to share your first 10 deals with him. You'll show you had to close on. So it was really, I mean, this was coming in right when, you know, all the craziness is starting to happen before the crash, right? Let's come out with the no-income loans. I didn't know any different. So he just showed me how to fill an application, what questions to ask. And he did train me. He was really, really good man. and took very good care of me, but it was only a century to come in, you know, early in the day and then stay late at night. I still wasn't supplementing my income, so I took a truck driving job to Sacramento, went back, and then do three days a week in the office.

And it was just a lot of battle on them, finally building up a good clientele and then moving on to the next company and the next company. And then I got recruited by countrywide because I was out hustling their local branch manager for a condominium complex. and they paid all this money to get it approved with Fannie Mae, and I was taking it over, so they hired me. And they helped me, and I actually, I talked to a bunch of guys in these two brokerures, and I took them on as a team, and I came aboard like I was just some big team dangling

that had all these people, and I really didn't. And I kind of snowed them and thinking I had this going on, so they put me on as their very first sales manager in the entire company, and I had to just learn. And I had to build this office up, and it was known by the company as the frat house. It was like 12 guys in this one big room, a 4,000 square foot just open space, and we were working our guts out.

Wow. And that's kind of where that took off from there. And then, of course, I shared with you offline about an accident I had in 2008, and I came back to an industry as completely changed. And that's from the turnkey investor started working their way into Arizona in 2009. When that started to happen, I was just very blessed enough to have two clients buying from the same turnkey, local market specialist, if you will,

here in Arizona. And I closed those two FHAs in three weeks. They said, you are our premier guy. And that's when literally two weeks later, all the turnkey guys started coming into Arizona to buy real estate. And I was able to start building from there. And come 2014, I had one employee working with me,

just the two of us, lock ourselves in our office, work our guts out, me and Ellen. And she'd been working with me since 2010, actually. So by 14, you were just me and her. and I was standing in a Chipotle, I'm getting lunch for the tools. This is back before the whole Ecoliast here or whatever it was, and the line was out the door. And as I'm getting actually in enough where I made it inside the door, I'm looking, I'm seeing this big old line and all these people there. I started turning heads behind the town or working.

Did you ever take a chance to take the time to count the heads behind the county at Chipotle when it's fully staffed and fully operational? You know, I didn't think about it, but now that I'm thinking about it, it's easily six people back there, because one of them has to do the tortillas, the other one does the meat, and the other one has to do like the corn. Yeah, so it's six and a number. Yeah. It's actually 11. Oh, shut.

Oh, because then you have the people behind cooking. Yeah, you get the people in the back, right? They're cooking, they're chopping, the movie, stuff around. You got a store manager. And as I'm watching this, I found this to be like, I think, this is really interesting. I'm seeing 11 people working on a burrito. You know, that is how you make an efficient burritos. You have to have 11 staff members.

Yet there's two of us building an intricate financial instrument. So I decided to, as I waited in line, I created a process for doing loans along the Chipotle line. And now I have 11 staff members. And I have built it to have this line like Chipotle where I have a person that goes the tortilla. And she'll also do your, do your rice for you. And then you've got the protein person. You've got the salsa person. You've got the person who's really stingy with the guac.

I got it all set up, right? I was going to say that. But my people aren't stingy. trying to give all they can. But, you know, and what I found that that system works awesome and it works in the same respect that they're there. The ingredients are not that different. You know, they're pretty normal. But the problem is, is you have to have great interaction with people on the other side of the counter. How fast does that breedo get built when the person who shows up does not know if they're in a barbaco mode, a chicken mood or a steak mood

for the brito, right? And they're standing just thinking, all of a sudden everything stops. So once you start understanding that the interaction between all parties is absolute necessity, then it helps a ton. The problem that we have in our industry is the communication piece. Because you've got the guy who's giving the loan, the person like yourself who brought him to us, the other person on the other side of him who is the seller who's saying, hey, I'll pay, is you guys order what you want. And what's funny is, it's interesting that the people in line don't get to hear what the other guy is ordering. Yeah. They only look at the person who's building the brito. So if you're behind the client and the person's selling is that they're trying to pay,

on, come on, come on. He's looking at my staff saying, why is the breeder not done? But they're like, we don't know if he wants chicken, if he wants parvico or steak. The problem is, is we have these legal issues that we don't know, we can't always say, he doesn't tell us he wants chicken. So it puts us in a really awkward position. And so it's like having, you have to put yourself in a box with a little opening to order your Chipotle because you can't know what the guy's doing around you.

So I'm trying to open that up. I'm trying to figure, what is the best way to improve our system? We never stopped improving. I mean, we just had a great call yesterday. the team, a Zoom call, just like this. Yeah. To work on continuing improvement, continuing to flow. How do we enhance what we're doing?

Improve the relationship you have. Because I think we only leave the surface of two things, relationships and experience. And we can't have one without the other. And so my whole goal is to keep tweaking, tweaking, tweaking until we find that is perfect, and then find where it's imperfect and tweak that too. Yeah. You know, that's a real nutshell. Yeah.

I find that now I understand a lot more that, you know, cash flow savvy and, now I know that you over at security financial mortgage run our businesses very parallel because we have a specialist in each of the fields. Now, you use the analogy of Chipporte where you've got the tortilla and the rice guy and down the assembly line. I do the same thing at cash flow savvy. So, I have my acquisition guy that finds the property. He's a specialist at that. Then they go to the contractor. The contractor makes sure that the property is up to point. Then the property comes to me, and it just keeps going down that route, so to speak. And now I understand why your team is so awesome, because, of course, when we're processing a loan or a turnkey property for our clients,

I didn't realize that you have the same assembly line, so to speak. So there's an introduction to you, then there's the pre-qualification process and then there's the next step and every step along the way our clients really you guys hold their hands like we do this is now one of the main components and has become just one of the reasons our clients are so successful so fast and i will have to say aaron i i deal with a few lenders and you by far are one of the fastest and your communication is one of the best. So I commend you for that. And now I understand that you're always thinking about that Chipote Burrito.

Exactly. And when somebody throws in a taco order, it may slow us down a little bit, but we'll get it. Yeah, yeah. No, no kidding. So, okay, so let's talk about Aaron specifically when it comes to loans. Just share with us approximately. You don't have to get it right. But how many loans have you done for turnkey clients?

I hadn't. I've been tracking it. last few years because of course like I'm just trying to try and survive right so we did I've been doing 2017 was 676 real estate investor loans that we closed within my office that left my guess that's just they don't have other loan originators it's just me and a staff of processing processing this business this year I think we just broke 612 as of this morning so I'm trying to hit 700 by the end of the year. That's my goal this year. It's not easy to hit those kind of numbers. Yeah, I know. It is trench warfare all the time. They're trying to make every deal go. And when you're talking about all these

personalities and nobody is talking to each other, it's, it's a little tough, but we are very, very blessed to be able to hit a lot of really, really good high numbers. Yeah. Well, I'm not so much concerned about the number. The reason why I asked that question, Aaron, is because that's 1,288 loans that you have done in just two years. And what that screams to me is experience. Like, there is something that you're doing right that, number one, keeps our clients coming back to you. And number two is, I know from personal experience with you, there isn't a challenge that you and I have not seen. I mean, I think with 1,200 loans in two years, we've seen the gamut. Oh, boy.

You're not kidding. In fact, I ask a lot of people in the first conversation, I like that you bring this up. Have you ever heard the term good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment? Yeah. You know, and so when I ask that question, it's to illustrate, you know, my contemporaries, the majority of the loan originators out there, because that's where I'm the licensed loan originator.

You look out throughout the United States, there's tens of thousands of us, the median closing is three to four transactions per month. That's 36 to 48 transactions per year as an annual experience to draw from transactionally. And then if I've got between 6 and 700, that means why one year is equal to 18 years of the average person in my industry. That's a big dang deal. And the reason I pointed out to our clients is many times you and I are trying to help this person come from a consumer spending money and going into debt because that's the

mindset they have going into buying real estate to now concerning themselves sitting at the head of their board table as the CEO of their real estate investment business. And you've got Mercedes sitting over there as your chief operations officer, building an entire operations division for you. You don't have to worry about who to hire to do what. I'm trying to take on the job as CFO. And what I indicate to them, when you're talking about that experience and what you just said, was having those 1,200 plus transactions the last two years, and something comes up that that new CEO has to make a decision on, there's a pretty good chance we've seen it. We've seen the outcome, and we can properly address that with them.

Now, I don't tell them what to do. I give them the story of what happened before with somebody else. So they can make a decision with themselves because they're just CEO. The backstop there with them. We also know experience is a very miserly bitch that will pay slowly over a lifetime, right? It will teach thoroughly, but it takes a lifetime to get it. And sometimes it's so damn expensive. And in real estate, you can't risk paying that kind of price.

Yeah. You need a team that you have. You need a team like I have to help you navigate these ridiculously treacherous waters because it's a very, very narrow canal. And there is a ton of people buying for their attention. And we need to be sure that they're focusing the attention on the right people. I always say the most important, there's two important parts for them. One is to get the team right. You have to have the right people with you.

The number two, you have to make the right choice in the property. That property has to be able to stay rented and be one that's desirable rent. Everything else will take care of itself. I don't care what the rates are doing. I don't care what anything else is doing. we're part of the most tax favorite asset class that exists in investment in real estate, quit concerning yourself with things that consumers worry about, consume yourself what CEOs worry about.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's great that you tap on the teams because, I mean, I beat that. I beat that too at nauseam because at the end of the day, it's not really so much about the actual house that you buy. if you don't have the team that supports that house that you bought, it doesn't matter how beautiful that house is. It doesn't matter what rate you got. What matters is that you have a team that's going to support you no matter what and that's going to guide you is really the key with our turnkey clients. I will say that a lot happens behind the scenes between my team and your team for our client

that makes the process so simple. In fact, I interview a few of our clients because I want the average person out there. I want that busy professional to understand that they can also do real estate, especially if they go turnkey, because so much is happening behind the scenes, we've done hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of transactions. And doing one for you is not only an honor, it's a privilege. and we're going to guide you because we want you to do more, not only for our benefit, but to see how we build portfolios for our clients just because we have the right team in place.

Still, to this day, after over 5,000 transactions that I've done, I still get such personal satisfaction when I see a client come to me with zero properties. And at the end of two years, we've built a portfolio of eight properties. for them. And that's all because of the team that you and I have created. It blows me away. So thank you for being a part of our team. Well, thank you for allowing me in because to me it's an honor to be able to have somebody who's built and done what you have done over the years and then include us in on it. We don't take that lightly. And it's all about trust. You know, the trust we have with each other, the trust we were able to build with those clients. And when you start looking at,

you know, even if you're religious or not, you look at, let's just say, just in the body, everything you break down on the commandment has everything to do with violating trust. And I think that that means it's such a very important concept to understand the concept of trust and be able to put that to work in your life. That's what makes it work for all of us. And I appreciate you allowing us to continue to work with you on that respect. Awesome. Well, it's our pleasure.

So you mentioned something that I hear every single day. And it's the rates are rising. The market is changing. Now, I have my perspective. Of course, I'm on the turnkey portion of it. I want to hear your perspective. I want to hear what you think about the changing market, about rising rates. Well, one, it doesn't scare me that they're rising rates.

I just closed on a couple of transactions myself because I stumbled into some in a couple of states. And I can't do my own loans, right? It's illegal for me to do that. I have to go through another source. I went to a competitor. And they gave me, I closed two. deal at six and eight percent, one for me and one for my wife. It doesn't bother me. Because again, we're the most tax favor of asset class. We can expect them to potentially continue

to go up. And it really just boils down to if you look backwards, it really ties to the quantitative easing and the quantitative tightening process. You know, I have staff members right now that have never seen interest rates above 6%. They're starting to freak out right now. Like, guys, calm down. If you go backwards to 2006, I looked at the interest rates in 2006. I found a memo online with all the market breakdown on how to factor figure out their interest rates that day from Chase. At the end of 2006, we're showing that the rate I get today for a real estate investor would cost nine points back then. Wow. How interesting is that?

Yeah. And yet what it was with the federal government in 2009 decided to start the quantitative easing and dumping $1.25 trillion into the market from January 1, 2009 to March 30, 2010, to really drive the race so low to get people to start borrowing again. And then they continued that path of reinvesting into the mortgage-backed securities market directly between anywhere from $17 to $44 billion from what I saw in that range. So let's say middle ground that is like somewhere in the range of $30 billion going in there every month. Well, then you get to the end of 2019, excuse me, 2017, when the new chairman of the Fed Powell pulls his foot off the gas and starts putting on the break

and slows it down to $3 billion a month trickling in there, rates are going to jump. But what I did notice, I'm going to answer your question even further, this little bit of story, if that's okay. Sure. So I had a client purchasing two new build properties in Memphis, Tennessee. They're on the same street, same floor plan, same price, same potential rents. The only difference was one was just about finished. They were in trim on that once they closed in a couple weeks.

The other, they'd get to break ground. So we're looking at this difference between those two properties. He didn't see an issue with buying them because he thought, hey, I'm going to get contracts today on a price that's set today for someone's wanting to be ready for six months. So he's ahead of the game, right? Everybody would think that. Well, we closed on the first one at the end of last year, 4.75% rate of interest. Fast forward to April 2018, we're getting ready to get his next one done because the property

is now getting ready to be finished up. We have the appraiser going out. We started talking rates. It went up one full percentage point to 5.75. He started to freak out. So he contacts me. He's like, dude, I think I'm going to cancel property. number two. I'm like, why would you do that? So the interest rate jumped up so much, I'm losing

$600 a year. Like, how are you losing $600 a year? So, well, if I'm buying this from a 4.75, I'm getting X rents and I'm got X payment. And then you go to property two with 5.75, the difference in payments almost $50 nuts, like $49 in change. You multiply that times 12. I'm right at $600 or just under. So it okay, there's, you know, you remember we talked about you being CEO, me being CFO? He goes, yeah, let me play CFO for a second. I'm going to throw the some things at you that you can think on and decide how you want to use it. Is that cool? He said, sure.

I said, okay, I need you to go to your CPA and ask them, what is the difference in taxes that you will pay on property one with the higher cash flow versus property two? Because income gets taxed, right? And it's income. Then I would like you to ask him, what is the tax deduction you get on property two with the higher interest rate versus property one? Remember, you're not even paying that interest, your tenant is. Then come back to me and tell me what you got.

So he went and did that and came back, and it was no longer $50 a month. He was down to $3.55. So what I try to really, really drive home is that it's not always about the cash flow. The cash flow is only one small part. In reality, that's the cherry on top. Your real Sunday starts with the fact that you're borrowing 20%, and I'm bringing your business partner in the form of a loan. It really goes all the way back, and you've seen the big short.

It starts back with some of his pension fund more than my money. likely. They're going to put up the money. They're going to let it sit there for 30 years. They're going to partner up with you at 80% of the acquisition price of your real estate business. They're not going to take any profits, not going to take any benefits or voting rights. They're only going to get, say, 6% of their 80% and 12 installments every year. And then somebody else is going to pay it off. If we're talking about a $100,000 transaction, and they pay off an $80,000 loan, right? That's what's happening over 30 years. Somebody else is paying off that loan. You divide that 80,000 over 30 years, that is $2,666.66 per year.

You take that number and divide that into the 20% down because that's what your growth is. Your growth is 13.33% per year just by making sure it's rented without you getting a single dollar in cash flow. That's where getting your team matters because you can have a piece of crap house where the great team will keep it rented. You can have one built out of solid gold brick overlooking the bay and it could never be rented because your team sucks. Then the other part is going back to the loan, 30 years, right? What happens to your cost of living with inflation, this Mercedes? You tell me, Aaron, you're on a roll. It goes to hell up, right?

You know, the government says it's going up at 2%. We know they're jerking us off. It's going like 3, 4, 5%. Let's just say 3, right? Let's say it's going up 3% per year. We know that because when we were kids and we had to go get milk from mom down to the grocery store or the corner store, we know it was way higher than that, right? or way lower than where it is now, like maybe a quarter of the cost.

Well, with cost of living going up like that, it means you can raise your rents. But do we get to rate the payment on the long? Nope. Well, 30-year fix? No, it doesn't change at all. They're saying. They have to accept the same payment today as they do 30 years from now.

Yeah. That means you are outpacing inflation. You lock that person in and are basically get to hose them over for the next 30 years over their, you know, they're going to accept that payment. Every year for 30 years, even though the dollar value is losing, losing value every single year. If you park your money into a bank account, it's at risk for, and to me, three big risks. One is inflation. The dollar is losing value.

Two, it's losing, it's at risk because if a bank starts to fail, the large laws on books now, they can take the policy's money and issue you stock. Well, I'm not in stock for a reason. The last thing I want is stock from somebody who's no longer viable, right? And then the other massive risk is me myself. If I have cash available to me, there's a good chance I can turn that into a boat. Yeah. Right. So if I have the ability to grow my value by 13, so on 3%, 3% per year just by making sure it's rented, right?

Then I get to outpaced inflation. Let's say it's 3%. Add that to the 13.333. Now I'm 16.33% growth. And I've not even pulled in a dollar of cash flow, right? Now we have tax deductibility that we talked about just slightly about earlier, but we didn't get into depreciation. There's so many other facets associated with this that people get too wrapped up in what's my rates, what's my cost, and how much is my cash bill.

Cash on cash return is a great model. Well, it's a great tool. It's not a great model. It's a metric that a person shouldn't live and die by. I've seen so many people pass by awesome, awesome deals because, oh, their cash on cash return is not awesome. One of them I made the mistake is saying, hey, if that guy doesn't take it, I'd take it. Well, two weeks later, I got a call, so guess what you're taking this because you said you went. I've done that before.

I got to keep my mouth shut because I got to be, I mean, I'd be honorable by saying me to do what I got to do it, right? And so I end up picking that deal on. And it's still a great deal. It's cashierling $300 some dollars a month and I only have a $50,000 loan. That's great. That's crazy. You know, it's, I'm so happy that you said exactly what I preach all the time.

You know, I'm big on cash flow. That's why we're called cash flow savvy. But that's the only thing I talk about just on the surf. when we get down to a conversation about really what a turnkey property does for you, it does so much more than just produce cashwall. I mean, you've got the tax deductions, you've got all the benefits from appreciation or depreciation. And that's not even, that's just the surface. There is so much more that happens. And of course, this is a podcast that I try to keep, you know, in a 30 minute wrap.

But I can't possibly explain and stress how much just. one cash flowing property or one property in itself, if it's purchased right, whatever the cost of the loan was, whatever the interest rate is, if you purchase it right, it is going to be a benefit for you. So I'm so glad that you tapped on that because so many people are just fixed on the rates. They're going up. The cost of the loan. Oh my gosh, it's costing me two points.

Blah, blah, blah. No, it's so much more than that. So I'm so glad that our listeners are hearing it from another perspective, another professional in the industry, who's done over 1,200 Dolans in the last two years because I talk about this often. And I just don't feel that the average person understands it the way that we want them to understand it. So we keep repeating. Exactly. And the other thing that they need to really wrap their head around is this is also a great benefit to them because it's thinning out the pool of investors. because you and I can't talk to the whole world, right? Although I try to.

The whole world should be watching this podcast. We try to get out there, everybody gets your mind right, but it's not going to happen. The media today has properly trained people to be consumers. That's why Walmart's kicking ass. That's why Amazon's kicking ass, right? Because they're consumers. Because that thinking is out there, it's going to thin out the herd. And only the people who have the guts to really figure it out and really plow forward

and have enough forethought to get the right people on board are going to be able to take advantage of the situation. This is actually a great thing that they go up. So it's going to thin out the people that don't really want to play that hard. There's a lot of people want easy money. You know, as proven by all the multi-level companies and all of stuff, people want to get rich tomorrow. And we know that getting rich tomorrow actually just accentuates your faults. So that's definitely something I think is going to benefit is to grind this out, you know? And I'm going to give you a little teaser for the next time you and I are able to do this again. I am working up. There's a lot of big things people talk about legacy.

And they talk about how do I get this built right? What instructions do I leave your up my kids? I'm not going to leave instructions for my kids. I'm building this in a way that they are involved now. They have to be built on every investment that we do. We have family meetings. They do Zoom calls with people. They all have life insurance policies that they use

that we're buying real estate with. They understand that they have to participate. They have a percentage that they must put in every year when they start working and they have to maintain that. Otherwise, when they turn a certain age, they will be able to tap into the interest at the trust trainers at that time. But if they don't participate, they don't get crap. I ain't leaving them nothing.

They only get what they play, what they decide to play with as well. Because when I started this whole thing, I started with nothing. I told the story of where I came from. Yeah. Where I was dead broken, I started over. My children have to claim up in the same because I'm not going to put a bunch of money into the pockets of people to come just a bunch of social jerks. Yeah.

Not going to happen. That's awesome. that's awesome. I love the idea that you're involving the family, and I know that you have younger children that are not all of them are college aged yet. I have a seven-year-old, and whenever he asked for a toy, we make him think about a job or a service that he could provide for mom and dad or for epic real estate that in turn is going to pay him cash flow. It's going to pay him cash. And then he's going to take that cash and a portion of it, he needs to put away that to buy a cash flowing property that's going to allow him to buy more.

I love that you're doing the same thing and your children are old enough to participate in your business and create that legacy. So I absolutely love that. Yeah, mine range from 12 to 21 and they're all involved. You know what? That's the way to do it is to teach them what we're doing so that they have the option of, not option to learn it because they're forced to learn it while we're doing it, but then they have the option to continue if they want to.

You know, Mateo's already trained. He is going to take over Epic Real Estate. He knows that. And Mommy and Daddy get a cut. Exactly right. Awesome. You know, I really appreciated the fact that you just topped on the changing market and really how it's benefiting those people that are staying in the real estate game. You know, I speak to a lot of people that have lost so much in stocks and were frustrated because they have money in stocks and bonds that they can't control. And now with the fact that they've taken that money, invested it into a cash flowing property, now they can control everything about that property. I'm teaching them, yeah, you know, interest rates, yeah, they're going to happen. But historically, where we are now is solid and stable.

And we've been so spoiled for the last 10 years because we've been at interest rates at three to four to percent. Now it's at a 6 percent. big whoop when I started investing, rates were at a 12%, 12% to get a 30-year loan at Chase and Wells Fargo. Now they're at a whopping 6%, maybe a 6.5. Who cares? If you buy the property right, you're going to be able to benefit from it. The market is back to normal. And like you said, Aaron, it's weeding out all the people that don't need to be a part of it. So that just means it's more for the people that are staying in the industry, and I absolutely love that.

So, Aaron, a couple of final words of wisdom for our listeners that are still on board with us. So the main thing, I think, those who are still, you know, that have a history of investing, people have been doing this for a long time. Again, remember that the multifaceted part of this, don't get, you know, you've been spoiled with the interest rates, we've got that. We had an anomaly that came about that gave us an opportunity. It was a great big window. It was a 10-year window.

We got to participate and got to really capitalize on the economy. But now the economy is going to be shifting again. Just know that more opportunities to capitalize will come. And the multifaceted part of real estate is not just like, like you said, stock is all really wrapped up in one direction. If you talk about real estate, you've got the property itself doing it. It does. You have a hard asset.

And you've got the lease. Those two things are two very, very solid parts of what's going to cause your growth. You have two things that's going to cause your investment to work. So that's one thing I want people to remember is do not allow yourself to get wrapped up in potential loss when it really wasn't a loss. Rates are really just a thing in your imagination if you really want to get down to it. And those people knew coming into it, get your team figured out first. Quit looking at all these things where people tell you how you can do it on your own and save money. You never save money on your own.

We never have. nobody's ever done that. I remember hearing a guy one time, a very, very hardcore investment, doing it 20 or 30 years. He said every time he tries to save a dollar, he spends five. Quit it. You know, quit trying to do it yourself. One, here's the way I look at it in my own business. If I had to go do something on a file and I just decide, hey, I'm just going to do that because I'm better at it. Yeah. I'm a damn thief is what I tell people because I'm taking somebody else's job. Yeah. Do we want to build up everything around us and like they say, the rising tide who raises all boats? Let's pull the tied in together.

And if you feel you can do something on your own and cut somebody else out, not only cutting out somebody's job, but you're also cutting out your potential profit. You know, I have a friend of mine whose wife started up a business, she decided to start doing some of it on her own. He came to me, says, how do I get my life to stop going out there and doing this and just let the staff do it? They tell us she's a damn thief.

He's like, what? It said the time she's taking, she took somebody's job from him, right? He goes, yeah. But then she also didn't go out and create another job. She could have created two jobs with that by just not doing the one. So that's the other thing I want to really push out to people. Quit stealing from others and ultimately stealing from yourself. Yeah, I think that's more key component.

It's you're stealing from yourself. You're robbing yourself the opportunity to make a difference for you, your family, and perhaps a legacy just because you want to figure it out on your own. You know, Matt and I talk about all the time. We're big on mentors. We're big on not reinventing the wheel. there's no reason to have to do that. It's already been done for you.

Just hop on board and benefit in every single aspect that you can. Erin, if somebody wants to reach out to you and talk to you and connect with you, what is the way that they do that? And of course, you're more than welcome to contact me. I will put you in direct connection with Aaron. However, if they want to reach out to you directly, what do they have to do? Aaron B. Chapman.com is the best place to run me down. You know, the person wants to look up my licenses.

They go to the NMLS website, the Nationwide Morgan's Licensing System, and they can see me, my NMLSID is 267-844, and they can be able to find out at least my history there as well. Awesome, awesome. Well, for the listeners out there, if you want me to personally connect with Aaron, he does go out of his way to take care of the epic client. Many clients can attest to that. So feel free to reach out to me and I will put you in direct contact.

Not only so much with Aaron, but with Aaron's right hand girl. She is even better, I'd have to say. Yes. Yes, then Aaron. They're very, very, very good. Yeah, that's one thing I have very been blessed with. I have people way better than me because they make me look better than any Hollywood makeup artist ever could.

This is true. I attest to that. Aaron, thank you so much for your time, for your candidness, and just for sharing. everything that you shared about you with us. I know that you touched someone's mind, someone's heart, maybe even their soul. So the whole idea is to get people to move forward and to do something different and really to find the right team. And I think that you being presented here is because you are an epic team member.

So thank you for being a part of it. Ladies and gentlemen, you're welcome. Ladies and gentlemen, feel free to reach out to us. We are here for you. You've got Erin's information. You certainly have mine. Feel free to download the Rat Race Escape Plan. Go to wwww Cashflow Savvy.

That's Savvy with 2Vs.com. Or email me directly and I will absolutely put you in touch with Aaron. Ladies and gentlemen, have a great weekend. And we will be in touch soon. Bye. Do you have doubts about your... current plan for retirement actually panning out, imagine revolutionizing your retirement plan so it pays you right now and in retirement.

Change one thing, one time, and that revolution can be yours. That's bad news for Wall Street, but great news for you. We're cash flow savvy, and we'd like to offer you free information that will show you how one simple tweak can cause your retirement plan to pay you right now and in retirement, and it's yours for free. For the secret your financial planner doesn't want you to know, go to cashflow savvy.com. That's cashflow savvy.com. This podcast is a part of the C-suite Radio Network.

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