Epic Real Estate Investing - Cool Stuff with Joe McCall | EREI 180

Episode Date: November 9, 2015

Today Matt welcomes back friend of the show, Mr. Joe McCall.  Joe is a successful investor who invests while traveling the world with his family.  On this episode Matt and Joe discuss how to recruit wholesalers, mothers, and used car salesmen for your sales team – plus tons more!  Enjoy! ------- The free course is new and improved!  To access to the two fastest and easiest strategies to a paycheck in real estate, go to FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com or text “FreeCourse” to 55678. What interests you most? E ducation P roperties I ncome C oaching Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Real estate investments involve a high degree of risk. Residential income and returns may vary and are not guaranteed. Past performance is no indication of future performance. Nothing herein shall be construed as investment, tax, legal, or accounting advice. This is Terio Media. Broadcasting from Terrio Studios in Glendale, Caledale. California, it's time for Epic Real Estate Investing with Matt Terrio. Yeah. Hello and welcome. Welcome to Epic Real Estate Investing, the place where I show people how to

escape the rat race using real estate. You just got to shift your focus from making piles of money to making streams of money, change that one thing, just one time, and you are on your way. It's actually a very dull path, though, I promise you. I warn you. But it is the fastest. And that there is a promise as well. And, and, there is a promise as well. And, and, once you get there, life then becomes exciting. And to take your first step toward that exciting life, your exciting life, go to free real estate investing course.com of where you'll learn the most valuable skill of a real estate investor.

How to find motivated sellers. I bet you thought it was going to be raising money, right? Or it was going to be sales, or it was going to be building rapport, whatever it may be. All of those are important. Every single one of them are important. You need all of them. But the most important skill, the one that pays the most in our society, is the ability to find the deal.

And the foundation of every deal lies within the seller's motivation to sell. That's why you're looking for motivated sellers. And I show you just how to do that as well as everything else you need to know to put it all together to collect that paycheck at free real estate investing course.com. Free real estate investing course.com.

No funny hyphons or spellings. It's just very simple. Hopefully you remember. All righty. So I've got a great show for you today with a member of my mastermind group and another member of my mastermind group. good friend and not just of mine, but of this show.

And he's got his own very successful show on the subject of real estate investing, real estate investing mastery. And, you know, every time we get together, it just turns into a much longer conversation than I think we either one of us anticipated. Like, you get a text and say, hey, you got five minutes. And I said, sure, I got five minutes. And 50 minutes later, we're like, oh, what happened? And, you know, as hard as we try, we just can't seem to keep the conversation short,

whether we're recording or not. because these conversations happen all the time. And I think it's just because we're both so passionate about what we do. And we just can't help but bounce ideas off of each other. And then the one idea leads to another and then another and so on. And I just think people that are passionate about the same thing love to talk to each other. So I really have no idea where this conversation is going to go today. We have no agenda, no plan.

But if history is any indication, you will get something that can improve your business for the better. I mean, he's just smart like that. So we'll get to our guest in 30 seconds right after this. There are two steps to wealth. First, stop doing what poor people do. Second, start doing what wealthy people do. The wealthiest people work their strengths and hire their weaknesses. If only you had the time and resources to do it.

Now you do. We're VAs for Real Estate.com. and we have some free information for you. Get the five-step shortcut to hiring a rock star virtual assistant that will make you millions. Go to VAs for Real Estate.com. Stop doing what poor people do and do what wealthy people do. VAs for Real Estate.com On the phone today, I'm joined by real estate investor extraordinaire, Mr. Joe McCall.

Joe, welcome back to epic real estate investing. Hey, Matt. How you doing, man? Doing really, really well. Awesome. Yeah, thank you. And how are you? Doing good, man. Doing really good.

I am excited about this market. I'm excited about the business. And, you know, I'm here in Prague. Still wholesaling deals in three different markets. It's crazy. I was thinking the other day, looking back, I remember getting started doing my first deal in 2008. and all of the work that was involved and thinking, man, it would be cool to be able to travel and do the business while we're traveling.

And I was at the time, I was in my corporate job, my cubicle, as I called it, thinking about traveling with my family, you know, how cool that would be and be able to work anywhere in the world I wanted to. And here we are living a bit. It's awesome. Fantastic. You know, we were talking before we started to record. that I think the last time, or maybe it was just about a three-year anniversary the last time that I had you on the show. I think I had you on in between there, but that was the first time, and you were actually calling from Prague then as well. I remember, we're in a different flat, just about two blocks from where we were last time.

And it's a little earlier in the day, too, and we're in a bigger flat. I remember when I was on your podcast, my family was sleeping in the other room, and it was right next door to where I was doing the podcast. I remember talking really quietly because it was late at night, my time. But we're in a much, much bigger flat now. And so I can, and it's not as late and I can talk a lot louder, which is pretty cool. How long have you been there? We got here a couple months ago. We're going to be here for about another month.

On this trip, we're doing a lot more traveling. And it's a working vacation. I'm still working, doing deals, my podcast and coaching and stuff. but we're traveling a lot more so we just spent a week in Italy a few weeks ago, went to Tuscany and loved it there. It's gorgeous. We just got back from

Salzburg and Germany, Austria and Germany, spent some time in the Alps. I think they're called Bavarian Alps, I don't know. You're probably like within a half hour to an hour of Eagle's Nest if you're familiar with that. Yeah.

Southern Germany. Infamous place. Yeah. I didn't go there. I was talking to somebody else who did, and they said it's pretty run down. I don't know what that means, but we did some cool bicycle tours in Salzburg and in Munich. It's really, really cool.

And the mountains there are gorgeous. We spent some time out there. And then tomorrow we're actually flying down to Venice, Italy. We're going on an eastern Mediterranean cruise for a week. We're going to Croatia, which I've heard is beautiful. The beaches there are supposed to be gorgeous. and then going to Greece and then coming back to Italy

which is going to be fun and then two weeks after that we're going to Barcelona, Spain and spend some time in France I'm actually doing a real estate workshop in Spain with a guy from a friend

from England who's doing a lot of deals remotely and we're doing a workshop together talking about that and it's cool we love it here We're going back in about a month from now when we'll be back home in St. Louis. Wow.

And you're traveling with your whole family? Yeah, I have four kids and my wife. We did leave our dog in St. Louis. And we left her with her dog trainer, the one who helped us train her at the beginning. Okay. Hopefully she's not, it's kind of like, oh, man, she's going to actually see how our dog is. And she's going to be wondering why we didn't do it. we told her, she told us to do when we were supposed to be training her. But anyway,

I remember when I left my dog behind on vacations, I'd come back and it'd take the dog about an hour to remember who I was. That was always kind of hurt my heart a little bit. Yeah, well, we miss her, but we've had a blast here. Yeah, I guess so. And it was a year ago, I'll just say this real quick. A year ago, we went on a three-month RV trip around the northwestern quarter of the U.S. And, we had an RV. We went to about 10 or 11 different national parks. And that was really when I was taking my business to another level

where I'm wholesaling deals while traveling. And I'm starting to, I've been doing this now for about a year and a half where I've literally outsourced 100% of my wholesaling business to other people. And that's what, you know, I started when, even when I was in St. Louis doing deals in St. Louis, I realized, you know what, I'm not seeing the house. I'm not really talking much to the sellers or the buyers. So why do I have to do this from St. Louis? Why can't I do it from anywhere? And that's what we started trying to do. Super. You've been an inspiration to me, Joe, because I was very much hands-on in my business and have been for several years. This

year, I've made a huge step towards automating that my, not only just my wholesaling business, but generating the properties for our turnkey operation as well. And I wouldn't, I'm not 100% but I'm about 85% out of it. And I certainly have some questions for you about that. And, but you started the show with, you said you were excited about the market. What is it about the market that's exciting to you right now? You know, to be honest, I'm always excited about the market. I got started when the market was really, really hot.

And I remember I asked the same questions that I hear all the time now. You know, man, how can you do deals when you just stick a sign in the yard and you get 20 offers on it? You know, why would somebody want to sell me their house at a discount? And that's when I got started. And then when the market, I was doing deals, I started flipping lease options. It's what allowed me to quit my job back in 2009. And then the market crashed, and I made a lot of mistakes, a lot of bad investments. But then I got out of my job when the market was that it's close to its worst by wholesaling lease options.

And I remember asking myself the questions too at that time. Like, how can I do deals when there's no buyers? It's always something. You know, you're always afraid, well, what about this? What about that? The yab butters, you know? I was a yeah butter for a long time. And now the market is up again.

And I'm hearing the same things I heard back in 2005 that I was asking myself, you know, how can I do a deal? There's so much competition. There's tons of too many wholesalers and prices are going up. And all the seller needs to do is just call a realtor, stick a sign in the yard, and they'll sell it for top dollar, and they're getting 20 bids. But you know what? Still finding deals.

Still finding deals. And the cool thing about this market right now is that there's a lot of buyers in the market. There's a lot of investors looking for deals. And that's the key to it is you figure out what they want and then you go get it for them. And also I'm starting to get back into lease options again. I'm starting to look at building my own portfolio of rental properties. but I'm wanting to buy the lower end as well because they cash flow really good. But I'm also looking to start buying properties on terms that are in nicer areas.

So in St. Louis, I'm looking to build my portfolio of properties that are in the, you know, $150,000 to $250,000 price range. And so there's nothing better, in my opinion, than lease options to do that. and you get a totally different type of tenant, and it requires a lot less management in that price range. And you can still get really good cash flow, and you can get some good equity, and the number's got to work, but I love lease options,

and so I've been focusing more on that now, and we're starting to see some appreciations. I'm not counting on that. I'm still sticking with the fundamentals. It has to have cash flow. It has to have equity. You make a profit. you buy. But honestly, sometimes I look at this and think, you know, I want some diversity. And

I really like the idea of holding good median priced homes for rentals without having to buy the house or get a mortgage. Does that make sense? 100%. Cool. So, yeah, I'm excited about the market, and I always am. As long as you, in every market, there's a respective low price you can buy at in a high price that you can sell at or a higher price. And, you know, those numbers go up and down together, but they're always there. Well, I think the key, Matt, is understanding who your customer is. Okay. And in this business, it's not the seller.

It's not the private investors. It's not the banks. It's the buyers. Okay. No matter what you're doing, if it's lease options or regular wholesaling, who is your buyer? It's the investor who's looking for the turnkey rental. It's the investor who's looking to rehab properties. It's the tenant buyer who's looking for a house that they can rent for a year or two and then buy.

And you figure out, okay, well, these are, those are my customers. That guy is my buyer, my customer. What does he want? And there will always be a demand for housing, right? So finding who those people are, who those buyers are, figuring out what they want, reverse engineering it, and then getting it. That's how you succeed in this business. You know, one of the little strategies, I saw one of your videos online on how you find where all the activity is going on using list source, using that little loophole in list source, and finding out in the different zip codes where all the cash transactions are taking place, where all the investor buyers are taking place.

And I've done that a few times. I got a question, and I've come across this, and I've retaught what you taught in your video to some of my students. And it works really well. But in some scenarios, I mean, not even some. I'd say a good 30 to 40% seemingly. I haven't kept track, but that's what it seems like. Let me turn off Skype. That those areas are your really kind of rougher areas.

Have you found that? Yeah, you've got to take that information kind of with a grain of salt. You've got to look at each of those zip codes. What Matt's talking about for those listening is a way in list source you can find out where all of the activities are. and what zip codes are the hottest zip codes for investor activity. But you've got to look at that and think, you know, is this really a good area? And I would say, you know, probably, yeah, 25, 30% of those zip codes that come up at the top of that list may not be good. But the numbers don't lie, right?

There are investors buying properties in those zip codes. And then the key is to think about, all right, well, who are those buyers? Who are the buyers that are comfortable paying 10,000? on a house in that neighborhood. Right. But then you still got to make the decision. Well, you know, yeah, I can get buyers that will pay $5, $10,000 for these properties, but is it worth all of the effort and time to do deals in those neighborhoods?

And that's when it comes to, you need to kind of know your market. And you need to, the way I do deals now is I partner with local wholesalers. Okay. And then those local wholesalers will tell you, yeah, I mean, areas of bad school districts, stay away from them. You can sell deals there, but they're just rough areas. So the sweet spot for, you know, regular

traditional wholesaling, you know, is in those areas that are not, like, if you do an A to the F scale, and let's just say F is really, really bad, it's probably that C and D areas,

in my opinion, right? And so sometimes you'll get some of those F neighbors in that list of zip codes. But you want to do a little better than that. But you don't want to be too high because then the ROI numbers go down. So working with a local wholesaler, if you're doing this in another market, will really help you figure that out. And Matt, it's funny because I've been watching that.

And the last few times I've done that in my markets, I've seen some of those really bad zip codes drop from the list. Really? Okay. So, yeah, you should look at it again. and kind of see if it's getting better. Absolutely. No, I should do that for sure. I've noticed also recently that much bigger response on my direct mail

than what we were seeing like six months ago. Have you noticed the same thing? I have. And you know what else I've seen is a much better response with Google pay-per-click. I tell you, I love direct mail. Always have, always will. Just always will work. As long as people get mail in the mailbox.

direct meal will work, right? But I've seen, yeah, I would say since, at least in the last month, I've really noticed an uptick with that. And I was getting nervous, honestly, like six, eight months ago because it seemed like so many people were doing direct meal. But I've been, personally, in my business, I've been tweaking it where now I'm answering the phones live. And I've seen a big difference because of that.

and I don't know if I can necessarily say I've been getting a higher response rate from my postcards and letters but because I'm answering the phones live now I have a virtual assistant with Great English from the Philippines that's taking my calls live pre-screening the leads and stuff I've seen a much better, a bigger difference

and just in the last month or two I've started doing Google pay-per-click excuse me, I hired a guy, I just interviewed him on our podcast, the real estate investing mastery podcast, and in the last almost, well, six weeks. We've only got about 25 leads,

but we've got three contracts out of that. So it works out to be about one lead, one contract for every seven leads. And that may not sound like, but the quality of those leads are way better than direct mail. And you're paying more per lead, but what we're doing with the pay-per-click, that's huge, is those go directly to my assistant cell phone.

and those calls she answers right away. She pre-screens me. She happens to be a realtor. She prescreens them with some simple basic questions. And the local wholesaler that we're working with understands the urgency of a pay-per-click lead. And she will sometimes transfer the call to the wholesaler, transfer the call live, right there to the wholesaler. And a couple times, the wholesaler's actually been in the neighborhood and he's gone to meet the seller within an hour of the first call coming in. and that's why we're getting these properties under contract.

Those leads are super hot, and you've got to get on the phone. And I think with direct mail, it works, and it'll work even better if you answer the phones. And let's say it goes to voicemail, but you've got to call them back within a couple minutes. Right, right. Super critical. Absolutely. Absolutely. So here's my question on that, because I know you used to be an advocate.

of the 24-hour recorded message and you said you'd never do it any other way. Yeah. And now you're doing it live. So never say never. We already had that conversation before we started recording. So the, Mike, what's going on in my

virtual wholesaling business, or just my virtual investing business, is that I'm scaling up the marketing and there's no possible way someone could answer those calls live. I mean, I need four, five, six people on the other end to take those calls because of the call volume that we receive,

how are you dealing with the call volume or you're not getting the call volume like that? I'm not getting as much call volume as you are. I'll tell you what I'm doing. I have a virtual assistant right now who's handling calls, and I have another virtual assistant. They're both from the Philippines with great English. With him, the calls go to voicemail,

but he calls him back right away. With the lady that I have, she's answering as many of he calls live as she can, but it's still probably 50, 60%, she can only answer about 60% of the calls. The rest of them go to voicemail, but she calls them back right away. And I'm not doing a ton of marketing either. I'm not probably doing as much as you are. But if I were to really ramp it up, I would look probably at hiring another VA to do it.

And I would even consider, you know, I was talking to a guy in San Diego recently, and he's going to be on my show here soon. And that's one of the reasons why I love podcasts, Matt, is because you get to meet such cool people. Right. He was telling me, Joe, I remember like three, four years ago, you mentioned a website, hire my mom.com. And I went to the website.

I hired this lady. She's a stay-at-home mom. And she's from the south. She's got the real sweet southern accent, you know. And I hired her. She's been working for me ever since. She's fantastic. And now she's like my main negotiator.

and I said, wow, that's awesome. And he's paying her a lot of money, but he says it's worth every single penny because now he has somebody that answers the phone's live or returns the calls right away, and she's charming, she's good on the phone, and she's actually now negotiating deals for him. So I think I'm looking at this,

and if you're doing a lot of marketing, I don't think you can afford not to have somebody answer the phone's live. And if you can't get enough of your own staff, you should seriously look at getting an answering service to answer the phone line. Now, I say that with an asterisk because every service that I've looked at and I've recommended or I've used, it's frustrating, you know, and I get it. People just doesn't work. If you use an answering service, you've got to make sure that you've got it set up where if they don't answer within four rings, it goes to voicemail and you don't pay for that. call. And that's super critical. So bottom line, if I were to ramp up my marketing and do more, I would either hire another VA or I would hire probably somebody from HireMyMOM.com,

who's from the South, who has a nice sweet southern accent and probably start using them to pre-stream those leads for me. I am taking note of that one for sure. Cool. So I guess, This is just a base, it's just on volume. So I'm really concerned. This is a big part of my business. I've eliminated a bunch of other activities and opportunities and joint ventures from my business to focus on this. So I'm really interested in scaling it up. And we're doing well.

I can just see that, okay, I can't mail out too much more because we won't be able to handle it. So I was just wondering if there's another way or an efficient way of doing this without just hiring more and more people. Because right now I've got five VAs just on that part of the business. and I was like, gosh, do I need a sixth one? Do I need a seventh one? You know? You know, here's my philosophy, first of all, is I don't want a huge wholesaling business. I'm totally cool with wholesaling three, five deals a month.

And that's pretty easy. And the way I've got it set up, I partner with local wholesalers. So my VAs, all they're doing is just pre-screening the leads, putting them in podium, and sending them to the local wholesaler. And then my VAs are also doing. any follow-up. So we send an offer to every seller lead. And a lot of that stuff I got from you,

I so appreciate your podcast, Matt. You talk about, there's two or three things that you've said that have just really been transforming to my business. One of them is the three simple questions, what's your situation? Would you like to see happen? And if I can make that happen,

how quickly do you need to sell? And your philosophy of really keeping business simple is it comes down to three or four things. You do the marketing, you talk to sellers, you make offers, and you follow up, right? Really just keeping it down to those basics. And you mail offers to every seller that calls. It could be something in the mail. You've got to get them something in the mail. It's just a letter, something with some letter, like a letter of intent, giving them maybe some options or just even a one-page contract. You've got to get them something in the mail and you've got to make offers and you've got to make five offers a day

if you want to do well in this business. I really believe that. So anyway, that has been, I've so appreciated your podcast because I knew that stuff, right? And I knew I should be doing it, but to hear you just really break it down into simple terms, like, oh yeah, that's a great reminder. I need to do that. So for me, I guess I'm saying I don't want a huge wholesaling business. I would probably pull my hair out if I had to have a ton of VAs and manage all of them. So I think if that's where you want to go, I don't think you have a choice except to build a team of a call. You need to build your own call center. I think that's going to be the best way to do it.

Right. That's essentially what I've got here right now. So they come through, all of the leads come to two different VAs. They take the initial call. Then there's a third VA that does just follow up. So we make sure we follow up at least eight times. And then they go into a 30-day reminder. So we have that.

But their job is just to sort. So they're sitting there, they sort. Is it a suspect or is it a prospect? And they tag on that first phone call. They tag them that based on their motivation. Are they suspect or prospect? That sends them over in podium to our house analysis app. And then there's one admin person there that all they do is fill in the blanks of all the information that the person didn't get.

And a lot of research and they pull the comps. They look at the tax records. They make sure they confirm who's on title. They get everything ready. And once they have that all filled in, they click the little button ready for offer. Now, the suspects go to another VA and the prospects go to my in-house guy. guy. All right.

But my in-house guy, he's still virtual. You know what I mean? Like even though he's here in the United States, he's still here in my office in Los Angeles and, you know, we're marketing all through the Midwest. Sure. So I think my next move or maybe the next thing that pulls a little, this little more together and increases our efficiency, we're still doing deals, but I think there's a lot of stuff that's slipping through the cracks, is connecting with someone on the ground, partnering with

the wholesaler on the ground. So how would you, if you lost your wholesalers right now, how would you go out and find a wholesaler on the ground? Great question. And I think that's so important. You know, I'm looking at my business and thinking, I'm splitting my profit 50-50, but when you're working with a good wholesaler, that wholesaler would get the price at a deeper discount than I probably would on the phone because they're going out and looking at the house, building the rapport. And they already have good buyers so they can probably sell it for higher than I am.

So my 50% of the pie is still probably more than what I would get if I did it on my own. So how do I, if you took away my wholesalers, first of all, I get a lot of people that ask me, hey, can I be your wholesaler? I only work with folks who are doing already two, three, four, five deals a month. So, but to find them, it's just, there's a couple things I do. First, I'll go to, you know, the websites, Craigslist, back page, Google, and write down every name. phone number I can of every wholesaler that's advertising, I'll buy your house. I'll start looking at FISBOS, who guys who are advertising houses, you know, and start making the calls, excuse me, calling people. And then bigger pockets. Get on bigger pocketbook around on there.

I'll post something on wholesaling houses full-time, some kind of big Facebook group, and just start asking around. And for me, I've, always kind of known, I know a lot of people, just from the podcast and the mastermind that I'm in. And so I'll first pick the wholesaler and then pick the market. That's kind of the way I've done it. So I find somebody that I know is doing deals, but I know they're not doing enough marketing, and I know I could do it better, and I could provide a lot of assistance and follow-up in systems. So that's what I'll try to do. I had a student in, I can't tell you where he lives,

but he's done over 23, 24 deals in the last four or five months. And what he did, I told him to do this. And he actually, he's one of those guys you tell him jump and he'll say how high, right? He's just a massive action paper. And I said, just go find a bunch of wholesalers and call them all. He found a hundred of them. And he started sitting down one day and just started banging through the phones. he found that most of them were just not legitimate wholesalers.

They're just not answering their phones, weren't returning calls, not taking this business seriously. And I get it. They're beginners, they're rookies, whatever. But after about 50 or 60 phone calls, he finally found two or three guys. And he started testing them with leads. In other words, he'd get several leads and he'd split them up between the three, and he would test them to see who was the most response,

who was the fastest to respond, et cetera, et cetera. and he found one or two that were really good. And now he's just working exclusively with them. But I think it's just a matter of finding out who the wholesalers are, calling them, getting on the phone, looking for the ones who answer their phones, who are the fastest to respond and get back to you, testing them with some leads to see how quickly they can get back to that lead, right?

I don't think there's a magic trick to it except just working the phones And I think, you know, probably with your podcast, Matt, you already have a lot of wholesalers that are listening to you. Huh. Imagine that. All right. So if you are wholesaling in the Midwest or in the South, you're doing three to five deals a month, and you'd like to have an additional source of leads because we got that problem. That's not a problem. We've got that locked.

So we've got more leads and we know what to do with. Hit me up at Matt at epic real estate.com and we'll talk. Thanks for the reminder, Joe, that I actually have a podcast. Yeah, and if you don't want to, you don't like Matt, if you don't like Matt, then just go to Joe at Joe McCall. Well, you heard that Joe doesn't have enough leads to, he's not overwhelming his people. No, it's great. No, you're right.

Sometimes I have to forget, we're even on a podcast. I was just, I was involved in the conversation on the phone here. Well, you have the, well, I can maybe ask you that offline. I'll ask you another question offline, but I think there's a lot of wholesalers out there, Matt that are doing deals, but they're struggling with the marketing. Maybe they don't have enough money to do the marketing they want to do. A lot of guys are just used to getting deals brought to them, you know, from referrals, from realtors and agents, and they want to do direct mail.

They want to do more marketing, but they're just like, they would rather be in their truck driving around looking at houses making offers. And if you could find somebody like that and tell them, listen, I'm, I will do all of your marketing for free. Okay? I'll do all of your marketing for free. I'll pre-screen the leads, and I'll do all the administrative follow-up.

All I want you to do is take the pre-screened leads, the leads that I pre-screened. And I'll put them online. You can get them really easily and call them back, set up an appointment, meet them, et cetera, et cetera, and then sell them, and you just pay me after, you pay me out of the deal or whatever. We'll work out an agreement.

I'll pay you a certain percent. Well, all I need to do, all I need from them is them to get under contract. They get under contract, we take care of the rest. Because we have no problem selling the deals that we do get. Right. So that's minimal stuff. They drive around, take pictures, get that thing under contract,

and that could be very lucrative for them. You know what I tell you what? Matt, you should think about trying to find, it's going to be funny. You should think about trying to find used car salesmen. That's what Darren Collins does. I'm not kidding. Yes, his whole sales force are all from the auto industry.

and he just swapped out car for real estate, and he's been had a major success with that. Well, you know, we bought a car from this guy, oh, I forget how long ago, a year or two ago. And this guy was a brilliant salesman, and I knew what he was doing. I knew all the tricks, you know, and he was just really good.

And I started talking to him about real estate, and he was really interested. And I didn't follow up with him, but I thought, you know, if I would have offered him a job, or at least something part-time, he would have been all over that. And he would have been fantastic.

Now, you got to make sure that it's somebody that has some integrity. I'm not saying that used carsmen don't have integrity, but you want to make sure. But they're great. They're aggressive. So maybe next time you're in your market,

one of your markets, go to some used car lots and find the guys who are just hungry. You know, and they're not afraid to take no. They won't take no for an answer. And that might be a good can. And they're going to make way more money working for you, finding these houses than they are selling cars. And then I know every salesperson out there that's on 100% commission, you know, most of them have to go out and generate their own leads.

Oh, yeah. You're doing it for them? Yep. I think, well, I bet you could find some good folks. I don't think we could have set this up better if we tried. Oh, definitely. Anyway, so you said you're excited about the market. I understand how you're excited about the market.

I love that you're doing all of this virtually while you're traveling all through Europe. You're hitting what a dozen countries here by the time you return back to St. Louis. Congrats to you, Joe. You are an inspiration for me. The second thing you said when we got started talking about this is you said you're excited about your business. So tell me a little bit more about that, what you've got planned for the future of your business. Well, I love doing deals. I probably only spend about 5, 10% of my time on the deal side of my business.

And I love doing my podcast and teaching and coaching. So I spend probably about 80% of my time doing that of my business, working time, you know. So I really love the podcast for a couple reasons. But one of them is just meeting people and interviewing them and hearing how they're doing in their business. I had a group coaching call the other day, and I had, I don't know, 15, 20 people on it. And I started just asking everybody, hey, give me one win and one challenge. And I had at least half of the people on their wins were telling me things like just closed a deal, just got three properties under contract, got six properties under contract.

One guy just got a property under contract. He's probably going to net a hundred grand wholesaling fee on it. and now it's not closed yet, you know, but to see that kind of stuff, you know, to get the emails, hey, I just did my first deal and made $10,000, or I just did my first deal and only made $1,200, but they're excited to, and that I get super pumped about. I mean, that's the kind of email or text that I get that I show my wife, I get, and it's, it's just so exciting for me. And the business of education, I talked about this a lot in my podcast, and I'm one of those guys

that I'm thankful for gurus. You know, I'm thankful for those guys who put their neck on the line and teach this stuff. Because if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't, you and I wouldn't be here. I mean, it's like we learned from those guys. They showed us what they were doing. And God bless them. I don't care how much money they make.

I don't care if they make more money teaching and coaching than they do doing deals. They paid their dues. You know, even Robert Allen said one time, I've made my millions doing deals, and I made my tens of millions teaching people out of deals. So great. That's awesome. So I love teaching and coaching business because it allows me to help people make a difference in their lives and their family.

And it's also lucrative, make good money doing it. And it's very leverageable, right? It's very leverageable. It's easier in a certain sense to leverage coaching and education than it is doing deals. And we were talking a little bit about that before. before the podcast started. And I really enjoy it. So I'm not ashamed to admit that either.

And I love the fact that I get to help people. I'm giving away tremendous value with a free podcast. And people who want more help can actually contact me and I can work with them either one-on-one or in a group environment, group coaching environment. And I also have a marketing done for you service, you know, where we do marketing for our clients. and that just really excites me. I love that part of the business.

So I would rather teach a student to do a deal, maybe partner with students on deals, than do my own deals, to be perfectly honest. But I still do deals because I want to stay fresh. I want to understand what's going on in the market. I still do that, right? Because it's important for my own credibility that I can say, yeah, we're still doing deals.

But I love, I really do enjoy the coaching part of the business. If people want to get in touch with you, Joe McCall, where should they go? Because I know you got a new website, you know, every time I talk to you. So do you. Come on, Matt. Nobody has more websites than you. Yes. Oh, my God.

I know. I'm trimming the fat as we speak. You're giving me a hard time about a website? I know. I have a little bit. Well, you had to give me a hard time about all my reviews. So I was like, okay. Well, Joe's got a website.

for everything. So which website do you want them to go to this week, Joe? Well, how about either? I'll give you two. Okay. Just two.com. Joe McCall.com or my podcast, real estate investing mastery.mastry.com. Real estate investing mastery.com, Joe McCall. Got it. Joe McCall is with two C's, yes? Yes, two Cs, two L's. All right. Real Estate Investingmastery.com. Yes, that's my podcast. And I do not have as many reviews as you do, Matt. I'm sure you buy them on fiber

or something. Every single one of them. Yes, you go and you hire a bunch of VEAs to write you a bunch of fake reviews. I don't know how. I'm just kidding. But I'm jealous that you have so many good reviews. Here's the secret. Here's the secret to

getting the reviews. And for those that you're listening, reviews are very important on iTunes because it helps your rankings. It helps your visibility. So we like the reviews. So if you like what you hear on the show, I'd really appreciate your review. And the subscriptions are very important, too. So click the subscribe button while you're there. No, what I do is I bribe my audience. I give them away goodies in exchange for their reviews. So there's my secret. Well, you've got to keep doing it. And I try to make those bribes very, very juicy.

In fact, I'll put... Well, let me, can I give a bribe to your list? Please do. Please do. Okay, I wish I knew which episode it was, but I have an episode on my podcast called Leave a Review, Get cool stuff. Okay. And you just go there and just do a search for cool stuff. All right. And you'll see that I have on there. If you leave the review, you get some books and videos and stuff like that.

But yeah, I mean, the reviews are important. I was just doing a podcast interview today with a good friend of mine talking about Google AdWords. And I was looking at the reviews. And it's, this guy was telling us about this one interview we did with this lady, Brittany Turner, which by the way, you've got to go listen to this interview with Britney Turner. She's 27 years old in Nashville, Tennessee. She does over $90 million a year in revenue. Does there no, $50 million a year in revenue? And she has $90-something million in developing assets. She's been to Richard Branson's Necker Island a couple of times, hung out with him.

She's amazing. She started off as a wholesaler living out of her car. I think I've heard this story before. I think I've heard about her before. Yeah. Yeah. So you've got to listen to that interview. But anyway, I'm getting these reviews and iTunes of people listening to interviews like hers and telling her, telling me, you know, I'm letting my kids

listen to this stuff. I'm asking my wife to listen to it. And it's inspiring to me and it's making a difference in my life and I'm excited and making money. I'm doing deals. And so that's what keeps us doing it. And we'd love to hear your stories about how our podcasts have made a difference in your life. And that's why the reviews are important to us, because it kind of gives

this fuel to keep going. And it also helps us in the reviews and the rankings in iTunes. And, you know, maybe, you know, maybe I can get more reviews and start getting higher in the rankings than Matt. Yeah. That would be a day, wouldn't it? I'm just playing with you. I got a run, Joe. We've gone way over time. Once again, this always happens to us. I think my longest episodes of my entire podcasting, have all been with Joe McCall.

I don't know about that. I think so. I think so. And this happens when we're not recording as well. Time gets away with us, but it's a pleasure, dude. Go to joe McCall.com or real estate investing mastery. com and go to iTunes and review, or excuse me, search cool stuff. And if you leave a review for one of Joe's,

Joe's podcast, he's going to send you some cool stuff. Appreciate it, Matt. It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. Flipping houses can make you rich, but holding them will make you wealthy. Subscribe to a new real estate investing podcast. Hold That House with Matt Andrews and Matt Terrio. Subscribe for free.

Listen, learn, and earn. Hold That House. Subscribe today. That's it for today. I'll see you next week on another episode of Epic Real Estate Investing. I'm Matt Terrio, living the dream. You've been listening to Epic Real Estate Investing, the world's foremost authority on separating the facts from the BS in real estate investing education. If you enjoyed this show, please take a minute to visit iTunes and share your thoughts. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time

here at Epic Real Estate Investing with Matt Terrio. This podcast is a part of the C-suite radio network. For more top business podcasts, visit c-sweetradio.com.