Epic Real Estate Investing - EPREI 016 : Extreme Passive Income with Jeff Armstrong

Episode Date: October 20, 2011

Matt is joined today by friend and business associate Jeff Armstrong, one of the premier note investors in the country, as they discuss creating extreme passive income without tenants, toilets, taxes and termites. Get your free real estate investing course at http://FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Epic Real Estate Investing podcast episode 16. You're about to meet a man that can show you how he took control of his life and financial future and how you can do the same. He's never been on TV. He's not a millionaire, and he does not know Donald Trump. He is a full-time real estate investor, newly discovered author, and family man. He does not report to a boss. He creates his own schedule and takes his family on a few vacations every year.

He got started investing in real estate with almost no money in a really crummy credit score. And he's going to show you exactly how he did it and how he continues to do it. You will have to work. You will have to be responsible. However, laying by the beach sipping fruity drinks is a reasonable goal without further delay. Your guru. Sorry. Your guide to a better life through real estate investing.

Matt Terrio. Hello, and greetings from the Epic Real Estate Investing podcast, the podcast that will show you how to create wealth through conventional and creative real estate investing, so you'll have the option to realistically retire in the next 10 years or less, and enjoy the good life while you're still young enough to do so. I mean, how does that sound? My name is Matt Terrio, author, Full-Time Real Estate. estate investor and family man if this is your first time listening to this show you're going to

want to do two things first you're going to want to go back and listen to episode one episode one is going to give you the gist of what this show is all about and why it's here i mean everything that we discussed from this point forward is just going to make so much more sense to you if you do that and two you're going to want to download the free real estate investing course how to do deals no money required at free real estate investing course.com it's a step-by-step course of which i reveal everything that I do, everything that I say, everything that I use, including the documents and the contracts to invest in real estate using no money or credit. And that's yours for free at real estate investing course.com. Okay, we've discussed a bunch about the first few phases of

traveling that millionaire real estate investor journey. Think a million. We've spent a bunch of time on that one. In my opinion, it's probably the most important. Then you've got to buy a million. then you want to move to eventually owning a million, but we've discussed very little with regard to receiving a million, the fourth stage of the millionaire real estate investor. And one of your burning questions from the survey that I sent out was, how close are you to hitting that receiving a million goal? And to answer your question, I'm a long ways away from it.

I mean, I just completed that second phase of buying a million. I'm now in the process of obviously buying more, but transferring those purchases to actual ownership. You see, there's a big difference between being on title for a million dollars worth of real estate and actually owning a million dollars worth of real estate and actual owning a million dollars of equity. But that's what I'm doing right now. I'm transferring those purchases, the stuff that I'm on title for to an actual million dollars worth of ownership, of which I have a couple deals on my desk that I'm going to do,

and that should put me at a million in equity within, I don't know, four to six months. That's very conservatively, maybe sooner, but four to six months, and I will be in the position where I actually own a million dollars of equity. Now, I got a little bit of a slow start as in the beginning I was using all of my wholesale and flip profits to live on. I mean, that's what was paying the bills. And while I was doing that, I was spending a ton of time in that S quadrant, the S quadrant that Robert Kiyosaki's cash flow quadrant talks about, that self-employed quadrant and in that quadrant you do a lot of exchanging time for dollars and although the dollars can be really good in that quadrant you know it was wearing me out and about a year ago yeah i guess it was

about this time last year i made a conscious decision and i had to make some sacrifices to do this but i made a conscious decision to get out of the s quadrant and direct my focus to the b quadrant the business owner quadrant of which you do a lot less exchanging time for you do a lot less exchanging time for dollars and you put systems in place to generate your dollars for you. And a typical system that would do this for you would be rental real estate. And what I've noticed by redirecting my focus, I really busted through those first three stages, those first three phases of the millionaire real estate investor in less than a year. I've been working at this for a few years and I busted right through the first three

within a year once I changed my focus. And within six months, my focus will be on the next phase, the final phase, to receive to receive a million dollars annually of passive income now in real estate there are two ways that you can do that you can purchase a property rent it out and become a landlord that would be the B quadrant the business owner quadrant or you can become the bank and create passive income by lending your money of which would be the i quadrant the investor quadrant and if you haven't read that book I highly recommend it's going to give you a really clear picture of

how people make money, how they earn their money, and the sacrifices and the exchange that has to go on to create their incomes. And it's really interesting to see where you are inside of that quadrant and then identify where you want to be. And then it's easier to take the steps to get there once you know where you are and where you want to be. And we haven't really talked about the I quadrant that much.

I mean, if we've talked about it at all, I think this is the first time even bringing it up. It's a rather exclusive and small niche inside of real estate investing. And my guest on the phone today is a practitioner and educator in this specific niche. He is well respected and held in the highest regard

in this niche. He conducts his business with a straightforward, honest, and fair approach and through an abundance of personal experience, inspired vision, and dedication, he's positioned himself as a leader in this industry, in this niche. And he holds the title,

master note buyer. He's a licensed California real estate broker, a seller-financed notes instructor, and are recognized and requested national speaker. He speaks all over the place on this subject. And with 1,500 closed note transactions to his name since the inception of his company, Armstrong Capital, his experience is really unsurpassed in the industry of notes. And on the phone, he's waiting for us. I introduced to you today, a very good friend of mine, Mr. Jeff Armstrong.

Jeff, thank you for joining us today on the Epic Real Estate Investing podcast. Well, thanks, Matt. Nice to be here. Good. I'm really glad that you're here. You know, I guess we could just get started because you are, you practice a rather unique strategy. And what I mean by unique, there's not a whole lot of people in the country that do it. And then on top of that, there's not a whole lot of people that are nearly as good at it as you are. So if you could just kind of tell the people about how you got started in real estate investing and what was the initial attraction and a little bit about your strategy. Well, actually, way back when I was younger, I'm talking 1920 is when I bought my first property.

I got invested, started investing in real estate through the Dave Delgado method. I don't know how many people remember Dave Delgado, but he was one of the first information or informational gurus that would sit on TV and tell you how to buy house. It would no money down. Well, I did that. And I bought my first property when I was 19 years old, a little triplex. I lived in one unit, run it out the other two, and then just kept doing that for quite a number of years. Every time I bought a property, I'd fix it up and run it out and keep moving forward that way because that's what I thought was the best. And one of the things that I realized while I was buying these properties and running them out is how many headaches you have as a property owner, you know, as a landlord.

You know, I call it the tenants, the termites, the taxes, and the toilet. and you just can't get away from that. And I was always looking for something better than just buying properties and running them out. So when I was about 25 years old, I went to a workshop that actually taught me the basics of buying and selling seller finance notes on the secondary market. It's called the note business, and I'm involved in the note industry. there's the whole industry out there of people like me that do this. And that's what made me more attracted to the real estate was to actually own the property without being the owner.

You know, so it's more like, you know, be the bank, not the landlord type of a situation where I'm collecting the payments on a mortgage payment rather than collecting rent payments and have to deal with all of the issues that a landlord has to deal with. So my only worry every month is if they don't make their payment on their property, well, you know, I make a phone call and I start foreclosure. Whereas on the other side, on the landlord side, you know, you're getting your rent payment, you're making your payments on your mortgage, you're making your tax, paying your taxes, paying your utilities, and dealing with all the headaches that come with,

with being a landlord and owning the property. So my attraction to the real estate is to be on that side of it, the side of it where I'm receiving the payments on a mortgage and not making the payments on a mortgage. So that's kind of where I got started and how I got into my unique little niche. Got it, got it. So buying notes, I mean, if someone wanted to do that,

I mean, where do you go to buy notes? Well, I wish it was that simple. I mean, there's no store, there's no website, there's no place you can go and say, hey, I want to buy a note today. When you are interested in buying notes, you need to market for this. We need to treat it like a business. You'll be marketing directly to note holders, people that have sold the property and carried back the financing on their property. And you do your own marketing. You set it up as an entire business.

There's a lot of people in the industry that don't necessarily have the money to purchase these notes themselves. So we call them note brokers. You know, you can find the notes, sell them off to investor that's in the note business, that's in the note industry, and earn a fee that way while you're getting your feet wet and learning the business as a note broker and then eventually getting to the point of buying some of those notes yourself. Got it. Okay, so it's kind of like, you know, with houses, a lot of people get started wholesaling

property or fixing and flipping and with the intention of, you know, eventually holding onto those properties. It's kind of the same idea? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You can use that term wholesaling it to life, and that's exactly what we do. I mean, we're a middleman in a transaction. I don't know anyone that buys every single note that comes across their desk. And, you know, myself, I probably broke her off at least three quarters of what comes across my desk to other investors, and only buy the ones that I deal fit my criteria. So it's definitely a whole sale type of a transaction when you're looking at it that way.

Got it. Wow, it sounds very, very similar to, you know, what my day looks like. You've got to probably, you know, at least probably three-fourths of the stuff I pass on, or I'll put it under contract and distribute it to somebody else, and then, you know, only a quarter of those or so fit your criteria and those are the ones that you hold on to. Yep, perfect, exactly. Yeah. So, I mean, if you've been in real estate at all, you kind of know the gist of it. But then once you get into it, there's a whole set of steps and standards and practices that we do, you know, just like in the business, if you're going to be a wholesale or a fix and flipper or a buy and hold type of real estate investor, or if you're going to be a note investor or if you're going to be a note investor or a note broker, they all have their own little set of price. criteria and standards and practices that you do and need to learn to succeed.

Got it. So it's just like anything else. You'd say that you run your marketing like a business. What type of marketing do you do? Well, since our target is a very select group of people across the nation, and this is a nationwide business. We do business nationwide. Because our target is so niche, you know, my target market are people who have sold

a property and carried back the financing to facilitate the sale of the property, which means the seller of the property is carrying back the mortgage on that property. In some states, it's called a mortgage, other states it's a Cedita Trust, other states it's a land contract or indenture. So there are other instruments across the nation, but it's all the same thing. It's all what we call a purchase money mortgage. So if my target is such a niche target of people who have sold properties and carried back to finance and facilitate the sale of the property, then I need to refine my marketing and

really have some very targeted marketing to get these people to contact me to let them know that we purchase them. So one of the things we do is we do direct mail directly to them. one of the more expensive marketing things that we do. But direct mail does probably get us about 50% of our business every year, mailing out letters and follow-up postcards directly to the note holders. We do obviously internet marketing. We've got our website, and we drive people to that in as many ways as we can.

We visit and participate in networking events, and we do direct contact and we network with people. in that sense to let people know what we do and what kind of clients we're looking for, what kind of note holders are working for. And, of course, we've built, you know, I've been doing this for 20 years, we've built a nice network of professionals that refer us business. You know, people that have, that come in contact on a daily basis or a weekly basis, with someone that's receding payments on a note is the potential referral source for us.

and refer business to us. So we develop our referral sources that way and create a big referral network. There's also ways, you know, once in a while we do classified ads in particular niche little areas that can be productive as well. So just like any business, I mean, there is a marketing that you have to do. You can't just say, I want to be in a no business and, you know, the next day you've got people calling you. it's just not as easy as something they can seem. Yeah, buying and selling the houses isn't that easy either, and a lot of people make that sound very easy.

Oh, I know, yeah. Yeah. So your marketing and your direct mail, how often do you do that? Oh, on a monthly basis. Monthly? Yeah, we've got stuff going out at the first Friday of every month. So it's a constant program. It's not direct mail, mail out,

set of mailings and get a deal, it's a direct mail program where, you know, you set out to, you know, send out your mail every single month. And then eventually those calls come in, those deals start closing, and you have to be a student to go every month. Mm-hmm. I'm curious, as far as the economy looks right now, where I just, we're the financial part of it, where we've had this, I guess, the financial crisis. We've had a, I guess, the financial crisis. all the banks that have imploded. How has that affected your business? Well, quite a bit.

I mean, our market took a hit, just like the regular real estate market took a hit. The last, though, what was it, three years or so that this has been going on. And we kind of look at it as a cleansing of the industry. A lot of people that weren't a business in the business in the milk business, you know, two, three, four years ago are not in the business anymore, because it did become a bit more, a bit tougher to do. In all honesty, you know, the business is tough enough. And then when you add on top of it that, you know,

our investors aren't buying notes anymore or our investors are typing up their criteria for when they're buying notes, that really did affect our business a lot. One of the things that we do at Armstrong Capital is we have a small list of private investors that have we've been able to keep our business going by using them because the larger institutional investors that have been out there for so many years just aren't anymore.

And if they are, their criteria are so tight that it's really hard to meet their criteria when they want to buy a note. You can look at it just like, you know, it's harder for people that get a loan now because the mortgage companies and the bank's criteria is so strict that, you know, hardly anybody can get a loan. Well, it's the same with the note buyers trying to buy these notes. They tighten up their criteria. But it's not all bad news.

It's good news because now we have investors back to the place where they should have never left, which is analyzing each deal for what it's worth and not buying just to fill up some securitization on Wall Street. And that, I think for our industry, was a really good thing. So when we're talking about, you know, the effect that the financial market and the real estate market has on our business, we roll right along with it in many tense of the words. You know, when the real estate market is going good, we're going pretty good as well. When the real estate market is down, you know, our business is down as well. Maybe not exactly, you know, in line with it, but pretty much following right along with, you know, the ups and downs of the real estate market. So we anticipate that with the things that have been happening lately, because it's so hard for people to get a loan to buy a property, there are so many more notes being created because sellers of properties want to sell their property and they're selling it to people that can't qualify for a loan.

So the sellers of these properties for carrying back the notes. So today, 2011, there are more seller carrybacks than I've ever seen in the 20 years I've been in business. And we anticipate more and more seller carrybacks to be the trend. And we are hopeful that 2012, 2013 or so, more investors will step back in and recognize that this is another huge market that they need to be putting their money in. And that our business will start picking up that way as well. So that's, you know, in a nutshell, I hope we didn't ramble on too much, how, you know, our business has been affected by the real estate and the financial market. Just like any other business, you know, we're all affected and everything goes up and down, and so do we. You know, you didn't ramble at all.

You kept on answering the next question I was going to ask, so I'm glad I just stayed quiet and let you talk. with so many more notes being created though doesn't that present some sort of opportunity here in the near future oh no doubt about it I mean you know just business goes up and down in waves like I was just talking about and with so many more notes being created

the opportunities for us in the next couple of years here are going to be huge in the note business you know my last really big run was about 2005, 2007, where, you know, between, well, even before that, I mean, from 96 to 2006, you know, we were closing over 100 deals a year. And since 2006, it's sort of dropped down. But, yeah, we anticipate that type of business to be coming back, you know, in the next year or two because of the influx of all of these seller carried back notes.

Because if you think about it, most sellers these days, especially, these days that are carrying back notes to sell their property don't want to carry back the notes. They would have rather sold with someone that could qualify for a mortgage and get 100% of their money. Right. But they can't. So now we have all these people that want, you know, sell their notes and we just

have to make sure we can satisfy them with the types of discounts that we're paying and with the investors that we have on our books. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's exactly what I would. was thinking. I mean, it's just, it's kind of like right now with so many properties being upside down, those that were familiar with, say, just for example, the short sale market, you know, 12, 15 years ago. Right.

But they were in position to really take advantage of the first wave of short sales when they came through. And it just seems like that's kind of the same dynamic building. But, I mean, you know your business much better than I do. I'm just like the outsider looking in and seeing how the markets work. And it just kind of seemed like a good spot to be in right now. Yeah, it really is. And, you know, for people that want to get in real estate that don't want to, you know, go and look at 100 properties to buy one, this is a different way to go. You know, I usually, you know, work out of my house and my shorts and my T-shirt and wait for the phone to ring, you know, and we're making offers on notes all across the country every single day. and I don't have to go check out and get in my car and drive to your property and inspect it before I make an offer.

We have a very simple checklist of what it is that we require to give an initial price on a note and some initial options, and then we go from there. But we do expect in the coming year or two that the opportunities available in a note business are just going to get greater and greater for us. I just read a thing on this, I think it's a Bank of America blog or a Bank of America subsidiary. And they're talking about how they're already trying to condition the secondary market for the subprime loan business to come back again. I thought that was pretty amazing. But they put out some statistics that made it very believable. I mean, it sounds absolutely absurd and ridiculous in today's environment.

But they had some evidence and some signs of showing that coming back. So anyway, that's kind of... Well, that's actually good news for us, no doubt about it. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, absolutely. So what are some of your, you mentioned you generate some business on the internet, you have a website, what are some of your favorite online resources? I mean, there's so much available these days.

It seems like a new one comes out every week. Do you have any favorites? Well, I really don't have any favorites because we don't do too much prospecting on the Internet. Any deals that we get from the Internet are people that have received some type of other marketing materials, materials and they've gone to our website because of that, or they've seen some of our banner ads on other industry-related sites. But I can't, you know, no one can go online and look for a note. There are ways to, some counter-recorders across the nation you can go into a counter-recorders

office and look through all of their recorded documents and find maybe a name and an address of a note holder, but then you have to go and head and do some direct mail to that person. So that's not an efficient way of doing business, so you're not going to find, you know, the thousands that you need every month to do that way. As far as other websites, we use, I mean, we use the Internet a lot more for our due diligence when we're actually buying a note than we do for marketing and finding the prospect. You know, for instance, you know, pulling up the comp and looking for, looking at the tax rolls, makes sure property taxes are paid and making sure insurance insurances enforce and that type of thing.

So the Internet helps us out, you know, very much in that way. If you look at it on the whole scale and the entire nation, it's only a nationwide business. We can't do Canada or Mexico or really any other countries. It's just, you know, United States of America, Hawaii and Alaska. And, you know, from the knowledge that I have, and I've been doing this for 20 years, and I keep in touch with, you know, the major players in the street. And we guesimate, you know, guesstimate, guesimate, we guesimate, that there's only about maybe, maybe 200 full-time people working the note business.

And then add on top of that about 800 or so part-timers or people who are just trying the business. And then distribute that along with about a handful of institutional investors. And then, you know, the real play is up on top. You know, we have our own list of private investors that are buying notes as well. So it's a very little niche business. You know, and I bet out secrets all the time when I want to do a workshop. I'm speaking at a convention or something like that. And if someone emails me directly and they ask a specific question, I'll answer it.

But there's a whole process, a step-and-step process, to learning exactly what to do in the know business and how to do it properly. And as far as websites, I mean, there's about a dozen websites that we'll use for our due diligence. Right. So, you know, it's a very niche industry, you know, keep that in mind. Keep in mind that it is also a business. You know, you're not just going to say, hey, I want to be in a note business and find notes tomorrow.

So you had mentioned a little bit earlier that, you know, you sit around in your shorts and your T-shirt. What does a typical day look like for Jeff Armstrong? We do a lot of work on email these days. I mean, obviously the phone is a big part of our business, so, you know, we're waiting for those phone calls to come in and we're returning phone calls every day to our note holders and the brokers that work with us and even the deals going.

So probably the first part of our mornings, you know, whenever we start working 9 to 11 or 9 to 12 or so, we'll be, you know, replying to emails and returning phone calls in the morning. In the afternoons, we're staying on top of current transactions, making sure the due diligence process is going, properly on those and check on our marketing you know do our daily Facebook page updates and things like that to keep our followers

you know connected to us and that's pretty much what we're doing in the afternoons is working on the marketing and closing the deals that are in the pipeline so you said we do you have employees you have people that work

with you? No I've always referred to myself as a review I'm actually a one-man operation. I do have a processor that helps us, there I go again, that helps me to close the files once we do get an acceptance and we are working on a transaction. But, you know, when it's such an industry, I mean, all of us are kind of connected in a way

so that I can talk to investors. And that's when I say we, I mean, I'm including the entirety of the industry in my answers here. because it really is. I mean, we know who's in the business, you know, those of us that have been around long enough. We know who's doing well. We know what they're doing.

We know what investors are buying what. And, you know, so as an industry, these answers are pretty much a good generalization, a good standard of what we in the industry do. Does that help? Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, just like to everyone else, I don't want to get up and put a suit on and go to work every day and drive in Los Angeles traffic.

And I don't want to do any of that, you know. So I decided years ago that, you know, hey, this is what I want to do. You're going to work out of my house. And I want to, you know, wear my shorts and my T-shirt and, you know, just wait for the phone to ring and control of what I want to do. You know, kind of do what I want to do it and have the money to do it with kind of a scenario. And, you know, that's the vision that I had when I started and that, you know, when I do bring people into the business, that's what I want for them as well. Yeah. You said that you'd gone to, was it the Delgado approach or it was an infomercial? How much would you say you've invested over the years in your real estate investing education?

Oh, geez, tens of thousands, I'm sure. I mean, I've been doing specifically the real estate note business, the real estate note business since 1991. So that's 20 years right there. And then I was buying properties six or seven years before that. So I've been in the real estate industry for 26, 27 years. But even when I found my niche, I mean, the learning doesn't stop. Right. You know, I'm constantly going to conventions, attending workshops.

You know, I never say to myself that, oh, I know at all. Or, oh, you know, there's nothing that that guy can teach me that I don't already know. I can sit in a three-day workshop. And if that instructor or that person just tells me one piece of information that will better my business, you know, the six or seven or thousand dollars a cost for that workshop was worth it. And it's in the long run is going to make me money. So, I mean, every single year, there's, you know, workshops and conventions and networking events and all that kind of stuff. I mean, they do cost money to attend sometimes.

And you have to do it. You have to keep on, you know, broadening horizons and getting the details of different deals and seeing how people are doing deals in today's market. Especially want to learn from the ones that are actually doing the business. you know, that that can show you like, here, we just closed this deal last month. You know, because there's some, you know, workshops and there's some information flowed around there about every industry. That is just, you know, knowledge from 10 years ago. You know, that this is how it used to work. And you really want to try to stay on top of what exactly is happening today, in today's real estate market, in today's known industry.

You know, so, yeah, I do put quite a bit of money every year into my education, my continuing education, make sure I'm on top of everything that has to do with my business. Good. You know, that's a common trait that I've noticed amongst the most successful real estate investors that I know is that they're so humble about what they know. They are so quick to admit that they don't know everything. And, you know, quite conversely, the ones that are out there that... claim to be the guru are the ones that seemed also behind the curtains seem to be doing the least amount of real estate. And, you know, and that's exactly why I invited you on the show, because I know you're actively involved and you're in the field, you're in the game in today's market.

So, kudos to you, Jeff. Well, yeah, thank you very much. Yeah, you bet. What is something that you now know that you wish you would have known when you got started? What do I now know that I wish I would have known when I got started? Or if you would have got started, what would you do differently today if you were to start over today? Well, one thing that I would have done differently is I would have put away more money from my brokering deals to purchase notes sooner. You know, we make a good living at brokering notes, you know, being a middleman and finding a note and selling it to an investment.

earn, making a fee. You know, we, we, that's our base of our, our business. But the majority of the business, the big money that, that's made in the note business, is when you yourself actually purchase a note. So the things that would have been differently are, well, instead of taking, you know, 10% out of every, every commission check that I got, maybe I would take out 20 or 25% of it and put it away. So I could have started buying notes sooner, you know, when you, when you invest, you know, when you

a $50,000 note for, you know, that's paying 30 years for $500 a month and you pay $35,000 for that note, I mean, you have that $500 a month extreme passive income coming in every single month for 30 years. You know, and I talk about extreme passive income quite a bit, but it's extreme because I don't have to worry about maintaining a property. You know, the four things I said before, you know, tenants, termites, toilets, and taxes. I don't have to worry about that stuff, you know, and there are people that, you know, when you own these notes, you know, they service the mortgages, they collect the payments for me, maybe take a little bit of a fee every month, but they're the ones that will deal with a foreclosure or the defaults or anything like that with my instructions if that ever happened. So the thing I would do differently if I start this business today was as I'm learning the business and broke, burning some notes, I would put aside more money so that I could invest in notes for myself

sooner because that's where the really big money is. It's just like, you know, most people that will probably listen to this may be in real estate already, and they've seen whether those, one of the truth in lending disclosure statements that you sign when you're getting a loan, and you're getting a loan for, say, $300,000 and you're going to pay back to the lending company or the mortgage company or the pay, you know, a million dollars, that's the same situation. When we're buying a note at a discount, we're going to receive those payments for the long run, and that $35,000 invested for that $50,000 note might turn into $100, $120,000 over those 30 years. Right.

You know, that's some serious extreme passive income. And that is the thing I would have done differently. Had I known that before earlier in my career, I would have tried to start investing in notes sooner than I did. So there, that's my answer. Got it. You know, use the word extreme passive income, and I know you place the emphasis on extreme, but I'm actually just based off of your answer, you could also put the emphasis on the word passive. It sounds much more passive than being, you know, a landlord.

Oh, sure. Absolutely. I mean, as a landlord, your tenant moves out. You got to do the whole process again. You know, I mean, it's just, yeah, you're right. You could put the emphasis on not only extreme, but extreme passive, where you're literally just going to your mailbox every month

and picking up a check. Nice. That's how passive it is. You know? Wow, yeah, that's absolutely true. So when you go to the mailbox and you pick up your check and you're done with your workday around 12, 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock, what does Jeff do when he's not working? Well, I'm a bass fisherman.

I fish in bass tournaments. We fish for large-mouthed and small-mouth bass in tournaments. I have a bath boat. So my number one hobby is bass fishing. And, you know, I read bass fishing magazines. I watch bass fishing television tournaments and stuff like that. And, you know, maybe once every other month or so or once a month sometimes I'll fishing tournaments myself

and try to learn as much as I can about that. But I do that for fun. And I don't mind watching football on the weekends and, you know, hanging out with my girls. My girls are getting older now, and we do stuff together as well. Like to go snow skiing and traveling and stuff. So that's kind of what we're doing in the off time, and that's kind of what I do for fun.

I mean, that's really what this real estate investing is all about, isn't it, being able to do that? Yeah, I mean, just having the flexibility to, you know, like last weekend, my daughter needed to go to an audition in Arizona. So I went. I mean, it wasn't even a question of whether we could or not. It was just, okay, well, let's go. So we did. And to have that kind of control over your time and your life is really nice. I mean, it's something that I've really gotten used to over the years.

almost something that, you know, my daughters expect that, you know, I'm always going to be there and able to help them do what they want to do. Thanks. Well, Jeff, it's been an absolute pleasure of having you on the show today. Just a final question. What's in your future right now that you're just really, really excited about? Well, I've been in this business for 20 years. I've been teaching my own workshops and classes for the last. 15 since 96 about.

And we're really excited about some new programs we have coming out to help people get into the business and work on being a successful, ethical, moral, successful, no business. And we're really striving to go that route to, for whoever is interested in being in a no business that they learn how to do it properly and ethically and make sure that they have the knowledge to do it properly. There's just too many people out there that are not, that don't have a clue as to what it really takes to be successful on the no business. So we're really excited about, you know, the next few months, a couple new programs coming

out and stuff and just being able to pass on that knowledge, you know. I had, I don't know if I would call them a mentor back then, but I kind of called, kind of called a mentor now. There's always someone that I had in my beginning years that I could always call and ask questions to and stuff. And, you know, I like being that person. I like being the person that can help someone, you know, change the direction in their life.

And I'd be doing it for quite a while. And I only do what I have time for. You know, remember, I'm only a one-man operation, but I've helped, you know, that's of people, maybe even more than be successful in this industry, and I'm going to continue to strive to do that as well, especially with the way that the market's going. We really do anticipate quite a bit of business to be out there in the next year, two, three years, and it's really a prime time to be in this business. So we're really excited about that as well.

Awesome. Awesome. So if someone listening right now is intrigued and they want to learn a little bit more about this extreme passive income, and I was going to ask, where would you direct that they go learn? But it sounds like you've got something coming up. How would they get in contact with you? Well, they can go to our website at Armstrong Capital.com, www. Armstrong Capital.com. and click on note brokers and also click on secrets of paper or shoot me an email at Jeff, J-E-F-E-F-F at Armstrong Capital.com. That would be the best way to get a hold of me. Perfect.

Not everybody does that. So thank you for being generous with your information, Jeff. Sure. Love for you to come back and discuss more, share more, and share with us how the business is actually going and see if any of the predictions that we made today actually come true. Would you be open to that? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And next time we'll talk more on the investing side than on the brokering side and see how that side is going. Sure, that sounds great.

Perfect. I didn't even know there was another side. So we'll definitely do that sooner than later then. Okay, Jeff, well, thanks for stopping by and we'll chat soon. All right. Thank you, man. Have a great one. Thanks, buddy. You too. Awesome call. Hopefully you got a lot out of that. Give you a different perspective or a different view of a different niche.

That's not too commonly discussed, not too commonly taught or even talked about. And Jeff and I were actually conducting a few live one-day events in Southern California this year and into next year called Cash or Cash Flow, of where we'll be showing people how to travel the path of the millionaire real estate investor in a very quick and efficient manner by generating large, chunks of cash and then showing them how to convert it into cash flow. And if you want to get more information on that, you can do so by visiting cash or cashflow.com. Cash or cashflow.com. Okay, so that's it for today. And until next time, as a very wise person once said, if your business doesn't create residual

income, you don't have a business. To your success, I'm Matt Terrio, live in the dream. Thank you for spending this time with Matt Terrio and the epic real estate investing podcast. When you have a moment, stop by iTunes to leave your comments and let us know what you think of the show. And if you haven't done so already, get started investing today by visiting free real estate investing course.com. To access Matt's free course, how to do deals, no money required. Until next time. To your success.

success. This podcast is a part of the C-suite radio network. For more top business podcasts, visit c-sweetradio.com.