Epic Real Estate Investing - EREI 066: Joe McCall and How to Flip Properties from Afar

Episode Date: September 21, 2013

What?! Not enough deals in your own backyard? On this episode Matt and Joe McCall of Real Estate Investing Mastery discuss how to flip properties in other cities, counties and states from the comfort of your own home. Listen in on this epic phone conversation as these two busy real estate investors share their secrets with each other. Download Matt's free real estate investing course, How to Do Deals : No Money Required, at FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com According to the latest reports of the National Association of Realtors, more than 90% of all real estate searches begin online. If you don't have a web presence, you are invisible to more than 90% of your ideal clients. Get a quick, easy and affordable solution at EpicRealEstateWebsites.com Are you just getting started and don't have your own "all cash buyers" list yet? Borrow Matt's private buyers list at EpicWholesalers.com To your success! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Broadcasting from Terrio Studios in Glendale, California. It's time for Epic Real Estate Investing with Matt Terrio. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Epic Real Estate Investing. This is the podcast where I show people how to get out of the rat race using real estate. And it all really just begins with a simple shift in mindset. And I keep sharing this with you, and I'm going to keep sharing it with you until it actually sinks in and clicks. And the shift I'm speaking of is a shift in. Focus. I need you to stop focusing on creating piles of cash. The cash is great, but stop focusing on

that part and start focusing on creating streams of income. And in the real estate world, that's what we like to call cash flow. So if this is your first time here at the Epic Real Estate Investing podcast, welcome. I'm really glad that you're here. And to get the ground rules of the show and to get a feel as to what this show is all about and where its intentions lie, please go back and listen to episode number one. And if this is not your first time here, you already know what this show is all about, right? And if you feel that this show has made some sort of contribution to your real estate investing and you'd like to give back to the show, you may go to epic real estate.com and make a donation.

As I've shared with you a few times over the recent months, we've got a brand new studio, which is not free. And whatever you'd like to contribute, you know, would help us keep the lights on over here. Now, if this show has yet to make a difference for you, no worries. Just stick around, as it's my intention that this show absolutely will make that difference for you. That's why I'm here. Now, having said that, regardless of what side of the fence you do sit on, making a donation is by no means an obligation. It's just there should you feel so inclined.

Got it? Cool. All right. So on today's show, we are welcomed by fellow real estate investor, fellow podcaster, and good friend, Mr. Joe McCall. Joe, welcome back to Epic Real Estate Investing. Hey, thanks, Matt. Glad to be here, man. Awesome. I'm glad to have you back. And I know the last time we spoke here on the show, you were traveling with your family and of all places, Prague.

And you're still flipping properties. There's no interruption to your real estate business. And I'd love to hear how that went and what you've been doing between then and now. Well, thanks. Yeah, we were in Prague. It seemed like just a few months ago, but it was a little over a year ago. Wow. It's been a while. It has been. It's amazing. But I got four kids. And so my wife homeschools, our older two kids, or younger kids, well, they're 9, 8, 5, and 2.

And we went over there, and it was, you know, an adventure to say the least. We were there for two months. And at the time, I was flipping a lot of lease options. We've talked about that before. But so while we were there, I mean, I told my wife, look, this will be a fun vacation, but I'm also going to have to be working. And so it was kind of like a working vacation, but still, man, I worked way less than I thought I would. You know, I was expecting to be able to work three to four hours a day, but I really only worked maybe one or two hours a day. I had some challenges.

We still flipped about two or three homes while I was there. in St. Louis. You know, I have systems in place where my virtual assistants do all my marketing for sellers. I have an acquisitions guy who gets the properties under contract, and then I have a realtor who markets and sells the homes. Okay. And a lot of what we do is just virtual. It's all online.

You know, there's a lot of tools I can give you. And maybe we can talk about that later, but, you know, there were some challenges because the biggest time challenge was the time zone difference so there's seven hours ahead so it was there's only a small window of about two or three hours when I could really talk to sellers unless I wanted to be up you know at midnight so that was challenging the other thing is I did not have my own dedicated high-speed internet access I thought I could rely on because there's tons of coffee shops out there and that have really good internet. But I thought I could rely on that.

The problem is there's a lot of, in Eastern Europe, I don't know if it's Prague or if it's Czech Republic or just that area of Europe, there's a lot of pirating that people do. They go in and they download and copy movies and music and stuff like that. And so a lot of people will go to these internet cafes to download all of their free stuff and movies. So these internet cafes will throttle your internet bandwidth. So you'll get real fast internet for about 30 minutes, and all of a sudden it slows down to a snails crawl. So doing it again, I would have gotten, you know, I would have invested,

it wouldn't be cheap, but I would have invested the money to get my own, the high-speed internet wireless card. But I learned a lot. I had a blast. We just love Europe. We were just talking the other day. We'd like to go back to Prague. wife just made the flippant comment of why don't we just go for a year what but we're also talking

about maybe going to Costa Rica in March for a couple months and that's that's a beautiful thing about this business yeah no definitely if you've you know and that's why I've you know I've asked you to come back on because you know a year has passed and and my business has really grown over here and I you know what I do works and what I teach work and there's one little, I don't know. I guess for the people that have a little bit more experience, I can coach them on this part of the business really, really quickly or really easily. But for the people that are brand new, this is the question I frequently get,

and I know you have a coaching program as well, so I know you've gotten this question before. But I kind of feel like the way that you present yourself and the way that you've branded yourself, you'd be the perfect person to address this. Because I know there's a lot of people listening that have this question. And that concern is, you know, I live in a small town. There's not enough people to send yellow letters to or there's not enough people to market to. Or, you know, I live in a higher net worth town and wholesaling is really challenging here. Or the hedge funds have come on over and totally taken over my city, you know?

So there's, it's, the competition is really rough. What would be your recommendation if I had to invest outside my area? Right. So that's- Well, I get that question a lot. Sure. But let me ask you, Matt. I mean, you're doing some awesome things. I love listening to your podcast and hearing how your business is growing and all the crazy things you're doing in these other markets.

But, I mean, do you have to live in L.A. Doing what you're doing right now, Matt? No, no, not at all. It probably helped me out if I didn't. You'd probably have more money to spend every month if you didn't live there. For sure. But, I mean, you could literally, Matt, live in anywhere in the world. and do what you do.

You don't go look at the houses. You don't go meet with the sellers and meet with the buyers. I know you make trips out to these cities occasionally to kind of build your team. But, I mean, you don't have to live in each of these cities. So, yes, you can do deals in any market virtually. It does take work. There's no push-button magic formula. But there's no reason why.

you literally could not be on the beach in your flip-flops with a laptop making $10,000, $30,000 a month flipping properties in multiple different markets. There's no reason why you couldn't do that. Now, when people ask me that, you know, I try to dig down a little deeper because I've seen the market when it's hot, I've seen it when it's flat, I've seen it when it's cold. and every time somebody always has an excuse for why they can't do deals. If the market is hot, there's too much competition. If the market's cold, then there's something else. It's, you know, no sellers will say yes, or it's too hard to find the buyers, or maybe it's too hard to find the sellers. And what's funny, Matt, is I'll have students in the same cities that don't know each other complain to me about different things.

One seller will say, I can't find any seller. And then the other student will say, I can't find any buyers. I get tons of sellers. That's not the problem. Well, what is it? So a lot of it's just the mindset. You know, if you do live in a small city, I know tons of people who are wholesaling deals in small markets all over the country.

And they're not necessarily wholesaling these deals to investor cash buyers. They're wholesaling them to retail buyers, people who want to live there. It's just part of a mastermind the other day, and I met this one gentleman. I won't tell you which state, but it's a Midwestern state. And he's wholesaling 120, 130 properties a year with an average profit of $7,500 per property. And he's got the whole state covered. So he's got the broken down into regions, and he's got acquisition guys in each region. And you know how he sells, he gets these homes just by bidding them on the MLF.

or huds okay and then he's sticking bandit signs in the neighborhood and selling them to owner occupants he marks them up eight grand and he sells these things to owner occupants and a lot of these owner occupants are just paying cash because these are properties in the 20-30,000 dollar range and it's great so even in even if you do live in a small little town in the middle of Illinois. Okay. And you're thinking, how can I wholesale deals like Matt's doing or like Joe's doing or these other guys that I see? I need another market. I need some place where the grass is greener. I say, no, maybe not.

You know, you need to look around to where you are and find if there are any investors buying homes, okay, then network with them, find out what they're looking for. If you can't find that many investors who are buying homes, which is unlike them, then look to see maybe what retail buyers are buying right now. And if you could get a three-bedroom modular home in the middle of the sticks, and you can get it under contract for 25, but it's worth 50, and it doesn't need any work, you might be able to wholesale that thing for 30 and make a quick five. So you can do it in your own backyard. That's what I would say, first of all.

Don't discount your own backyard. You should try to do that first. Try to do deals in your own backyard. Then I would say. Before the next, I think one key word there. is when you say you should try it in your own backyard. So I've gone over this several times, so I want to hear it from your mouth. What constitutes as a try?

And you know where I'm going with that. Right. Well, let me just tell you the truth. You're probably not going to get a deal the first batch of postcards you sent out. Right. You're probably not going to get a deal the first 100 yellow letters you send. You have to be committed to, the long haul. You've got to be committed to doing your marketing consistently, regularly.

And you got to be committed for at least three to four months before you give up or decide you want to do something different. There's a real principle of momentum that comes to marketing. You know, there's something about when you start the marketing and you start doing it consistently, it's like a snowball. It slowly gets bigger and bigger and bigger and starts rolling down the hill faster and faster, all of a sudden you can't stop it. Leeds are just coming in left and right. So many times sellers won't respond until they get the third or fourth postcard. Or, you know, they'll say no to you and then two months later, they'll call you back and say yes. There's a real principle of momentum.

So when you say, if you decide, I'm going to come in and I'm going to do these postcards, and I'm just going to try this out and see if it worked, I can almost guarantee you that you're going to fail. And it's not going to work. you've got to be committed to the long haul and have a marketing plan that says, okay, for the next three months, this is the marketing that I'm going to do every day, every week, and I'm going to hit these people three, four times. And with postcards and letters, I'm going to mix it up. You've got to be committed to it. So what is that saying of Yoda?

There is no try, just do, something like that. But that's kind of my perspective on it. Would you agree? Totally. I mean, if there's houses there and people live in them, then it works everywhere. Yes. Now, I would say that there are markets, depending on your strategy, there are markets that maybe work better than other markets. Okay.

True. You know, you're going to have a harder time wholesaling deals in California than you are in the Midwest, most likely right now. Okay. but that doesn't mean it doesn't work in California. I know guys that I was just talking to the other day and my mastermind who are crushing it right now in Southern California, making $20,000 to $30,000 per wholesale flip. Now, they may have to send three times as many postcards to get one deal as I would have. They're spending a lot more money in marketing that I have to.

But their deals are bigger. Right. There is a direct proportion to that that I've noticed. Absolutely. Right. Yep. Yep. You know, I went to a, and some of the things that you mentioned, when we've talked about postcards and we've talked about bandit signs already. We've talked about, you know, developing those relationships. And, you know, I just got back from a seminar this weekend in Arizona. Because I'm always going out to look for the new cutting edge ways of generating leads and doing deals and where to find the deal. the buyers and you know every single one I go to I leave like that's it I mean that's what you do I was waiting for a tip you know and it and it really all just comes down to if you're going to do

marketing you got to do a bunch of it and you got to be patient and then the other way is you got to go and make friends and create relationships and establish a network establish a team and that's every time I go looking for something new I could say add to my own academy or have here on a podcast that I could discuss or even find someone really exciting and bring them on as a guest to share their new and exciting way of doing deals. I was just like, no, that's the way it's always been done. It's the way it looks like it's always going to be done. Well, that's funny that you say that because I can relate.

But I, you know, I was talking to you before we started this conversation, Matt, about the certain mastermind that I'm involved with. And you've really gotten involved with something like that because there are guys that you'll meet. They're not in, they're not in the information business. They're just doing deals. And you hear about what they're doing and how they're getting more leads and it'll blow you away. And a lot of times I leave these mastermind meetings thinking, wow, I forgot about that. It's like, that is, that's right, that works. You know, I forgot about, you know what, putting ads in the penny saver magazines or those little, you know, free newspapers where people post stuff

on, right? That stuff really works. There's a guy I know in one of my masterminds. Consistently, every month, he gets two or three deals from the Penny Saver magazine. Just putting his little ads on there. There's a gentleman I know in a southern state in this mastermind. The only marketing he does is he has one telemarketer every day. He calls, this telemarketer calls every property that came online for sale, whether it's on Realtor.com or Craigslist or Backer.

page, any online website where properties are getting posted for sale, he calls that person up and asks them, just starts a dialogue. It just starts a conversation. Well, do you have any other houses like this? We're investors. We're looking for properties. Can you tell me a little bit about this house? And then finally, you know, we're always looking for good deals.

If you ever bring us a deal, we'll pay you a referral fee or if you're a realtor, you can be our buyer's agent, you can represent us, et cetera, et cetera. He doesn't care about that particular house that he called about. The reason why he called them is because he wants their email address and he wants to start that relationship. And then it just becomes a thing where he nurtures that relationship every week. So every week he sends out a voicemail, or not a voice, I'm sorry, he sends out an email to everybody on his list that he's talked to and say, hey, this is Rick again. How you doing? do you have any deals?

Do you have anything I need to look at? You have any hard to sell properties? So every week it's just a different one or two sentence email, no website, just a phone number, and you can reply, hey, do you have anything? Do you have any deals? And he's wholesaling four properties a week, just doing that. That sounds like work, Joe? Well, he's not doing any of it. No, I just being sarcastic.

I don't want to be on the phone. Cole, well, cold calling all those leads, right? Right. But yeah, so he once a week he sends out an email. He consistently gets about 30 to 40 leads coming back in. They forgot who he was. He talked to them maybe, you know, they talked to the telemarketer maybe a week ago. They completely forgot.

But it's all about building the relationships. And now that he's found he's kind of known in that area as the guy who buys houses, he starts getting people to bring him leads consistently. It's about the relationships. getting back to the basics of the basic stuff in marketing. So, yeah, I could give you a bunch of really cool things that we're doing right now that I still am doing, but it all comes down to, you know, postcards, they've always worked, they always will work. Picking up the phone and talking to people has worked, and it always will work.

Networking with realtors and your local RIA groups, bandit signs, business cards, you know, that stuff works. what I tell people, and I'm kind of going on and on and on, I apologize. But I get passionate about this because we're not in the real estate business, Matt. We're in the marketing business. And by the way, I invited you on the show to talk because I think people are sometimes tired of hearing me talk. So go for it. Well, I got sidetracked.

I forgot I was going to say, but we're in the marketing business, you know. And I could show you all of the fancy things that I'm doing. and the tools and the technology, but it just comes down to the basics of sticking your neck out a little bit, not being afraid to maybe stick a car magnet sign on your door and your car. I just had coffee this morning with one of my friends, and sure enough, there he is in the Starbucks parking lot with his ugly yellow sign on the door of his white Toyota saying, Chris buys houses. But you know what? He's gotten a couple deals from it, and he doesn't have a huge marketing budget.

Right. You know, the one thing to point out with everything, regardless of how clever it is, or how, you know, ingenious it is or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's everything is designed to spark a relationship. That's what it's for. Like, it's to create the relationship. You know, there's just not the, I have yet to find it where, you know, you have everything automated and escrow closes all by itself and checks get sent to you.

without talking to anybody. That just doesn't, it doesn't happen. And I know there's things out there that that promote that it's as easy as that. And it's just not. Well, it can be that easy if you have a team of people doing that under you, right? Well, sure. They're the ones that have to have the relationships. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. So let's get back to, you know, investing remotely. So our first step was, you know, you got to give it a try. And we've constituted a try as being, you know, It's going to take a few months, at least. And it's not just, this is another thing that I can see that they can say, well, I sent out 100 letters first month, then 50 letters the next month, and 25 letters the third month, and 10 letters the fourth month. And so I gave it a try for four months, and it didn't work.

No, it's got to be, consistency is so important. As you mentioned and brought into the conversation, there is an element of momentum. You are not going to get paid today for the activities that you do today. You're going to get paid today for the activities you did six months ago. Yep. Right? Well, you're absolutely, absolutely right. And another big component in that is learning how to talk to sellers in closed deals.

Because you could go out and spend $5,000 a month on marketing, get a ton of calls. But if you're a sissy, a wuss on the phone, And, you know, you stutter and you don't know what to say and you don't call them back immediately. You let that lead get cold. There's so many things that can go wrong after the phone rings. So, but that comes with practice. That's why you've got to be committed to this for at least three months because you're going to make mistakes the first time you get on the phone with sellers. You're going to fall flat on your face.

You're going to look like an idiot. Just get accepted. Okay. And practice. I love the questions that you have, Matt. You know, just keep it simple with like, what's your situation? What would you like to see happen? I mean, if you need any kind of script, that's all you need to have, right?

There are those couple questions. How quickly do you need to sell? What would you like to see happen? What's your situation? But there is practice involved with that. So you've got to be committed to having that marketing on a schedule where it gets done. I like to say it gets done for you in spite of you. you've got to have the systems in place that marketing is going out every day, every week,

and you're committed to practice your sales skills and practice talking on the phone with sellers and get a mentor or somebody that you can get on the phone with. I do this a lot with my coaching student. Get on the phone with and just practice talking, pretending I'm the seller, pretending you're the buyer, et cetera. And you're going to get that with practice. So once you've committed to three months of marketing and you've practiced talking to sellers and you've made mistakes and you get better and you get better, you're going to find

all of a sudden after three months, you're going to be getting a ton of leads coming in. People that said no before are going to call you back and follow up. And, you know, people that, you know, here's one thing I'm doing right now is I'm sending an actual letter and contract every seller I talk because I know the power of that kind of follow up. And that stuff takes momentum. It takes time. I'm only sending out, you know, maybe three, five contracts a day.

And I'm not going to get calls for a while on that. But I guarantee you in a couple, three months I'm going to start getting a lot of calls. People know just means not now. And that's why momentum is so important. And consistency is so important. Because they may say no now, but they're going to keep your postcard. They're going to drive down the street. They're going to see a big home vesters billboard.

And they're going to call you back and say, you know, know what? I saw your ugly, uh, ugly house guy billboard and I finally decided I'm just going to sell my house and give up on my realtor. You didn't put that billboard up there. Okay. But that triggered something in them. Now they're going to call you. That's happened to me before. Right. The seller thought it was my billboard that was up. I said, okay, great. I didn't, I didn't correct them on that. You know, it's funny that you point that out is because what I've noticed with so many of my specific coaching clients. And I kind of refrain from telling people this up front.

So if you're listening right now, just kind of pretend you didn't hear it. But is, you know, what you're going to find is with this consistent activity in working for three or four months, you're going to find that, you know, there aren't that many deals that come directly from your activity. It comes indirectly and from around. about way, for example, they saw someone else's billboard, which inspired them to go back and look at the postcard they received from you three months ago, right? Yep.

That happens all the time. But if you weren't doing the actual activity, you would have never got the deal indirectly anyway. Exactly. You know what I mean? And sometimes they say, well, that's not fair. I mean, this didn't, I sent out all these postcards. I didn't sell one deal from my postcard.

And I just got the neighbor next door happened to call me. and I did a deal with them. It's like, well, yeah, but you would have never gotten the deal unless you sent out the postcards. So they stopped sending out postcards. They think it doesn't work. And all of a sudden they're not doing an activity. And then none of these things happen because a lot of deals happen like as a surprise and what feels lucky and what feels unexpected. But it's all happening because you're consistent.

How many times have you got a call from somebody that had a postcard a year ago? and has called you and said, I've decided I want to sell my house. Right. You're like, who are you again? I don't know how many I've gotten from a year ago, but I have gotten several from six to eight months spans, for sure. Yes. For sure. For sure. Absolutely.

Well, it's, and they're like, well, don't you remember you sent me this postcard? Oh, yeah, okay. Right. I do. But the key to it is, and here's something that's really important to remember. Your best list that you can ever buy, you can't really. buy. But your best list that you ever is your follow-up list. Right. That is the best list. You talk to keep a record of everybody who said no, but you made an offer. They said no,

or they told you to whatever, take a hike. You just put them into an auto responder series in your email or something or you send them a letter. You call them again six months later. Hey, have you sold your house yet? His circumstances changed. I'll be interested in buying your house. right now we're finding we're flipping eight properties this month by the way in in st louis eight congrats the market is just white hot right now and we're also starting to do more deals than about six other cities um but the um um um oh i'm just completely scatterbrain today i was talking about follow-up list oh yeah yeah half of our deals right now are coming from people that we talked to a month, two, three months ago who said no. They're calling us back saying,

yeah, I've changed my mind or I thought the realtor could have sold it by now and they can't. And a lot of them also are coming from realtors that we talked to a couple months ago. We send them a weekly email. They all of a sudden open our email right at the right time, right after they talk to some seller who has some hard to sell house. And then they contact. So follow-up is so, so important. And how does this relate to all of the virtual stuff doing deals virtually in your own market? It's important because you can do this kind of marketing from anywhere in the world. You don't have to be in the city that you're doing the marketing in.

Right. What's involved with – go ahead. I'm sorry. I was just going to say, and that's kind of – that's what I want to get to is, you know, I don't – After 12 months of flipping short sales, I think, in 2010, and I did a bunch of them. You know, the deals got fewer and further between, and it got really difficult. I had to work really hard to do deals in my own backyard in Southern California. So that's when I ventured off and I heard, hey, I heard Memphis is a great market.

So let's go check out there. I went out there. I bought a couple properties for myself. I bought a multifamily. And through that experience, I went and I found great team members. And so I kind of did that. And I said, okay, great. So let's start doing some more deals here because I know people where I live,

they would like to have some cash flowing investments and they're cheaper out here and blah, blah, blah, blah. All that to say is I know how to do that for myself. You know, what would be the advice that you would give somebody brand new that said, okay, I've done three, four months. I've got no deals. I was consistent just like you told me to do. I sent out, you know, thousands of postcards every single month for four months. And I've got nothing.

So I heard that you over there, Joe, you're doing eight deals this month in St. Louis, I want to come over there. What would you recommend them to do? Well, I don't know if I've ever met anybody who's been that consistent with their marketing who's not done a deal. That's a perfect answer, by the way, but keep going. Well, if I would try to dig into what I was talking about before, the sales, like, okay, what are you saying to these people? You know, like, what kind of offers are you making? If the house is worth $300,000 and you're only making offers in like $50,000? range, then maybe there's something else we need to look at. But having said that, Matt, you and I,

we both partner with people all the time on deals. And we're always looking for bird dogs, people who will bring us deals, people we can partner with in other cities who can be like our boots on the ground person. So yeah, if somebody wants to do deals, maybe they don't have the money it takes to invest into direct mail, there's a lot of free offline. stuff that you can do for marketing. And it's a little tricky. I really like what you're doing with the epic wholesalers.com thing. But there are investors out there who are looking for deals and would be willing to partner

with you on any good deal that you bring to them. Maybe not partners are the right word, but will be your buyer on any of these deals that you bring to them. But, you know, here's what we do. When we're coming into a new city to start doing wholesaling in it, we first start doing research to figure out where the demand is, right? Because you can only sell homes people want to buy. If you're listening, write that down.

It's groundbreakingly revolutionary to think about that. You can only sell homes people want to buy. So what the first things we do is we pull a list of all the investor transactions and then look at it by zip code to see where all the investors are buying properties. We also look to see. So real quick, let's make sure that we're really sharing some stuff that they can take away and run away with. How do you look up the investor transactions? What's your source for that?

Well, there's two things that I go to. The Find Cash BuyersNow.com. That's Kent Clothe Your System. Okay. Really good. That'll just bring you up cash buyers. Most of the investors are cash buyers, but the other thing I'll do is I'll go to something like list source or listability and just pull up all of the absentee owners who purchased

a home in the last six months. Got it. Okay. Then if you want to do it free, here's a little trick. Just write down a list of all of the zip codes in your county. Okay. And you can go to list source.com and do a search of all of the absentee owners who purchased in the last six months by zip code. You're not, so just go all the way through the whole process.

But don't buy the list. Just go all the way through. And it'll tell you how many you have on your list. So first zip code is 6309 or whatever. and you go to list source and you'll show you that there's 50 transactions in the last six months. So you just write that down on your paper and then do the same search for the next zip code. It takes a little time, but in an hour or two, you'll find just from the number of the results that list source gives you how many investor transactions there were in each zip code in the last six months. then what you do is you just sort that list by the most transaction.

And that's going to tell you where the hottest demand is right now for the product. And that's where you want to focus. So if we're going to be going into a new market, like I have six different markets we're going into right now. And we just started doing this a month or two ago, really hitting it hard in the last few weeks. but I know specifically where my buyers are, who my buyers are, and what they're buying. I know exactly that in this zip code, they're buying three bedrooms, and they're buying them at an average price of $35,000. So when I do my direct mail, I'm going to target those zip codes.

And when I'm making my offers, okay, many times what we're doing now is when we get a verbal acceptance on a property. We'll call up our buyers to see what they'd be willing to pay. So we're lining up our end buyers sometimes before we even get our properties under contract with the sellers. It happens that fast. So anyway, the key to it is knowing what your buyers want, where they're buying homes, what their criteria is. And we'll also send letters and postcards to all of these recent cash buyers to get them on the phone. We talked about reliance. We're talking about relationships. I don't send them to a squeeze page or a website. I just give them on the phone and I talk to them. What do you want? What are you looking for, et cetera? And so that I've found is

the key to it all. And what makes this business so easy to do virtually from anywhere in the world is if you know where the buyers are buying properties, then, and you know what they want, which you can do that virtually, right? I mean, send postcards, get them on the phone. or maybe do some paper click or just call, make some phone calls, right? You find out what they want. You know what zip codes they're looking in. You know what their criteria is. Like, if we had time, I could probably give you six different criteria that I get all the time from investors.

It could be a gross rent multiplier. They may say, like, I want 35 times rent. They may say, I want rent times 12 times 8 percent divided by three, divided by nine, take the square root. and they give you all of this stuff, right? And then I want the derivative of that, whatever that means. So you find where the buyers are buying, and then you just, you know, from anywhere in the world, you can go out, get a list of people to send postcards to in those areas, shoot out the postcards, put a local phone number on there on those postcards, right?

And then talk to them from wherever you are in Zimbabwe. Bobway and get them on the phone and get these properties, you can get these properties under contract over the phone. And if you wanted to, you could get a local realtor who's boots on the ground that can maybe help you a little bit with some of the more stuff that needs to be done while you're there. So that's why I love this business so much because it's all about marketing and marketing can be systemized and automated so it gets done for you in spite of you while you're anywhere in the world, you don't have to be in St. Louis or Los Angeles to do marketing in those cities. You can flip these things from anywhere in the world. It really can be done.

Right. So are you doing any of these flipping remotely without people actually there, without some sort of boots on the ground, without some sort of team members there? Well, yes and no. I can tell you, even in my own backyard, in San Francisco. St. Louis, we're wholesaling eight houses this month. And I've not seen any of them. I've never talked to the seller, never talked to the buyer. Well, I take that back. I have talked to the buyers a little bit. But yeah, I've never seen the homes. But I do have somebody who is actually taking the calls and going to meet the sellers and inspecting the properties for me. He's my acquisitions guy. He's kind of like my bird dog. And he's doing great. In the other cities that were doing this,

yeah, I have people who are my boots on the ground there. Do you have to? No. There are, when I was flipping a lot of lease options, I'm still doing that, but not as many as I used to. Lease options are a little easier to flip virtually, but I still had to have a local realtor there to advertise and market the home and let people in the house to see it. Right. Because, I mean, there is some liability there if you are selling a house that you've never seen to somebody else that in the instances that you and I work, they likely won't see the house until after they own it either.

Here's the thing. I was talking to a guy. I'm in St. Louis. And I was talking to a guy who I'm going to get these states mixed up, but you'll get what I'm saying here. he lived in Utah. He wholesale a property in Ohio to somebody who lives in Arizona. Okay, it was a HUD. He lives in Utah.

He bid on the HUD. He won it. He sold, he did some Craigslist ads, and he sold the property to an investor who lived in Arizona. And they did a double closing. He had a title company. Take care of all that for him. So where was the property? Was the property in Arizona?

No, no, the property was in Ohio. Oh, in Ohio, okay. So seller is in Utah, buyers in Arizona, properties in Ohio. Yes. Okay, got it. Can you believe that? And, you know, where else can you do that? Yeah, but, okay, so if the seller didn't know about anybody there,

the buyer better know somebody there, right? Well, the buyer, yes, okay, the buyer had bought properties there before. Okay, so that's, he already had a, rehab crew. He already had a property manager in place. But he never went to go look at the house. Right. No, I get that. I just, what I want to be careful of conveying over a podcast or any means of communication on this type of thing is that one, it's a people business. You need people there. Or there's a special circumstance somewhere. If you heard a unique story like the one you just shared, there's something behind the scenes that actually made that happen.

It wasn't somebody that's never been to Ohio who doesn't know where Ohio is and just thought it was a good deal and bought it. And there's millions of those out there. And all you've got to do is set up a system. You can just process paperwork. I want to make sure that that's a realistic expectation. The second part of it is, you know, there's a lot of things that can go wrong on a real estate transaction.

And if something does, the person that's most of the time, When I say most of the time, probably I don't know what the number is, but I would venture to say above 90% is going to be the seller of the property or whoever is in control of that transaction. So it is really important to have your boots on the ground. And in all of my markets, I've got multiple people. I've got multiple teams on the ground. So I've got sets of boots, basically. And I always have a realtor, just like you do, process the paperwork for that region and make sure everything's up and. up and all the right disclaimers and all the right disclosures because, you know, as much as it may

seem like it's the Wild West out there and people are just getting a rich hand over fist, it's not the case. Well, a key component to that, Matt, is having an inspector and a property manager that can look at each property. Absolutely. You know, I was just reminded of this website I've looked at before. I've never used them, but there's a website called we go look.com. we go look.com and you can hire people for like 59 bucks that can go look at properties for you

just to get an initial inspection take some pictures and fill out a report so if you needed somebody could go look at a property take some pictures and again fill out a basic report there's we go look dot com but any house that we wholesale that's virtual we do get two people to go look at it. Number one, a professional inspector. I mean, once I have it under contract on my A to B, before I, during my inspection period, I'll have my contractor, who's also my professional inspector, go look at the house and do a, you know, a big, thick, 50-page inspection report on the property and also give an estimate for repairs to get it rent-ready. Okay.

I also have a property manager look at the house to tell me, yes, I could rent this or no, this is a bad area. And if I can rent this, I could probably get, you know, 800 to 900 a month in rent. Okay. So then I go back to my end buyer, my C buyer, and I say, okay, look, here's the seller's disclosure statement. Here's the property inspection report. Here's a contractor's estimate. and my property manager who is this guy said he could rent it out for $800 a month. Now remember he said $800 to $900, I'm telling my investor $800 a month.

And so that's those are the numbers right. So it may not be you doing that stuff. You may be 3,000 miles away, but you still need to have a good property manager in place. You need to have a good contractor and an inspector that can do as all of that due diligence for you. Mm-hmm. Amen. Absolutely. This is very cool. I just went to this we go look.com site. I never heard of this before. And $59 for most orders for them to go and look at the property for you. I like that. I typically pay $100 to my realtor on the ground to go do that for me.

So this is a great discovery. Even if you're buying a car on eBay, you can pay these guys to go look at the car and test drive it, whatever. So they take pictures and... Yeah. Cool. I can see they don't have, at least I don't see an affiliate program here. So I could probably refer a lot of business. But anyway, I'm not affiliated.

So go check that out. I think that's an absolute great service, and everybody buying an investment property should consider that, especially if it's from a place that they've never been to before. That's awesome. Yeah. And speaking of online services, you'd mentioned list source and list ability. Yes. And the reason I bring that up, which I've never even shared this with you,

but I have received a couple of your postcards from properties I purchased in St. Louis. So I know you're out there doing the business. I didn't know if you knew that or not. No, I did. I just curious, if you could, that's one place that's, you know, I know of the source. I've used them all the time. I've never heard of listability. What are some other places where you get your list from?

Well, let me just tell you, listability is a little more clunky, but you'll save, like, I can buy names. on listability for about six or seven cents a name. If you go into list source and you don't have an account with them in a pre-negotiated deal, you're going to pay 15 to 18 cents per name. Right. They're a little more expensive for sure. Right. You can save a lot of money.

You go into listability. It's just, I don't know why, but it's like some kind of database built in the 80s. It's just kind of hard to get around. But once you figure it out, it's good. The database system was built in the 80s, not the actual information, right? Correct. It's making sure. I think they've all moved.

And I'm sure I'm wrong about that. It was probably 10 years old. Okay. So let's see. I did really well. We did a deal down south in a southern state using this vacant house list. I don't want to, you know, I'm not endorsing this product. I know the guys who created it, good guys.

But it's the fine motivated. SellersNow.com. And they have a list of vacant houses, and they run this list cross-reference with about five or six other databases. And one of their main databases is the United States Postal Service, which keeps track of all the vacant houses, where mail can't be delivered to them because nobody can receive it. So that's a great list, but you also can reference that, cross-reference that with other

databases to get an even better list. I've done pretty well with that. You know, one of my best lists right now, I mean, vacant houses are kind of the gold standard of a motivated seller lead, right? The house is vacant. No money's coming in. Well, you know what? There are literally hundreds or thousands of vacant houses right under our noses on Craigslist, on Zillow, on Trulia or whatever, in the for rent section. Now, you look at what, I don't know.

what the numbers are, but probably at least 75% of all those homes that are listed for rent or vacant. And there's probably a landlord who's tired and frustrated with that property. It took him two to three months to kick the tenant out, to clean it up, and to start advertising it again. So this is a house that's probably been vacant for a couple months at least. Right. And so what we've been doing is we've been sending mail to properties that are listed for rent on Zill. And you know what? I got this idea, actually, from your guy, Brad, I think. But he would go to property managers website.

I go straight to Zillow and the MLS. And I pull up all of these properties that are listed for rent. And I'll actually get the owner's address from public records. and I'll send them either a yellow letter or a postcard. And the other thing I'll do, Matt, I mean, this is crazy. I can't believe I'm even telling anybody this. No, we won't tell anyone. Go ahead.

Okay, this is between you and me. All right. I'll pick up the stinking phone. Do you remember the thing called the telephone? I'll pick it up and I'll call the property manager who's advertising the property or the realtor. And I'll say, hey, you know, I'm an investor. I saw that you're advertising this house for rent on,

one, two, three, main street. Listen, I'm looking to buy some more properties in the area. You don't think your client might be interested in selling this house, would you? I'll let you represent me. You can be my buyer's agent. Okay. I've never had a realtor say, no, leave me alone. Don't never call me again.

You know, because all property managers are usually realtors, right? Right. But they're now presenting it in the perspective, okay, what's in it for me? And I'm telling them, look, you can represent me and get the, the community. on these. Most likely double-dip the commissions because if it's a property manager, they already have some kind of listing agreement with them with the owner. If the property ever sells, they're going to get 3%. So they may say, no, this owner just brought the property. They don't want to sell it. But or no. I have another buyer or another seller. Exactly.

Do you have any other investors, maybe some clients that would like to sell a house? Again, I've never met a property manager who's told me, no, I don't have any other clients who would like to sell their house. They always have reluctant landlords underneath them. Yep. You know, that they're managing these properties. And then the other cool thing about this, again, just picking up the phone and building relationships with these people. You can say, well, maybe do you have anybody that you're managing properties for that might be looking for more properties to buy? Get them on your buyers list. Okay. Those, they make great buyers. You know, the other cool thing, let's put out three points now.

Is that the landlords that own the property, most investors don't own just one property. Yes. Most of them own multiple property. That's why I was like the absentee buyer list is because that one person probably owns multiple properties. And, you know, if you're identifying them and thank you, Brad, for this is a great strategy. Actually, by the way, by going to the property managers websites. but when you're finding those non-owner occupies that are specifically vacant, you know, you just increased your percentages of possible sale there that much more.

Exactly. So if you find a vacant property, I mean, you need to, whatever you can, send that owner a letter, send them a postcard, call the property manager who's listing it for rent, go to the house, stick a bandit, or not a bandit sign, but stick a post-a-note on the door or a door hanger. that's a vacant house that lead is gold and do whatever you can. And then when they say no, no means not yet. Right. Put them into your follow-up campaign.

Put that property manager into your auto responder. Every week you send them a different one or two sentence email. Hey, do you have any properties? I'm looking to buy. You send that seller that you talk to who said no, you send them a letter saying, hey, I'm sorry, this didn't work out right now, but maybe if circumstances change, et cetera, et cetera. and then attach a contract to that thing, you start doing that and calling to follow up every couple months

or sending another letter, you're going to start getting more deals than you can handle just from your referral network. Right. So you mean I've got to, I still have to create a relationship. Yes. Okay.

Cool. Well, it starts from that, okay? Right. It starts from that. Now, every once in a while, you're going to get a seller, like I have a student up in Canada. I was teaching him how to flip lease option. And so one of the things I teach is stick an ad in the newspaper.

So he did something similar to Penny Saver, but it's a more premium newspaper thing. And he has this guy calls him up and says, all right, I just inherited this property. I know you're an investor. I know you want deep discount. And so look, this price, this house is worth $300,000. I'm willing to sell it for $150, and it needs $50,000 and work. so you'll be all in it at 200 and it's worth 300. Something crazy like this, right?

He says, write me an offer right now, I'll sign it. And the guy, even though he was a beginner, he was smart enough to recognize this is a good deal. He, without even looking at the property, he sent the guy contract, got it signed, he wholesaled it the next day and made a $42,000 wholesaling profit on this thing. And that's a long story. I interviewed him on my podcast. But occasionally you'll get those kinds of deals, man. The guy's so motivated. He doesn't want any kind of relationship.

He just wants to sell that house. Right. Rid of it. But again, most of the time, it's who you know. I mean, your network determines your net worth. Absolutely. And so build the relationships. Get the marketing out the door.

Mm-hmm. And then make sure it's done. It's getting done every day. Mm-hmm. But don't be afraid to pick up the business. phone and talk to these people. Right, right? Super. Well, we're almost out of time, Joe. So let's kind of summarize this episode as far around the context of investing remotely, flipping houses from somewhere other than where you are. First, before you even try it, you know,

give your own backyard a real honest, legitimate try, right? Yeah. Perfect. Now, if you have just done everything you possibly could do and you are convinced you have done, you know, everything that you should be doing and did it is consistently and the way that you should be doing it. And you want to try and venture out into a new market. I would personally recommend you create relationships in that market first. And your most important relationship, I think, is going to be your property manager and a good inspector and or contractor. Would you have anything to add to that? Well, that's really, really important. You've got to have good relationships with them. Maybe I'd add in there a realtor. You know, you might

might need to get MLS access. So that's going to take a little bit of time. It's easier and faster to get it, you know, to start building relationships with property managers and inspectors. Right. But the property manager and the inspectors, the contract are probably the most important for this puzzle because they're the professional experts, and they're going to go and give a pretty realistic assessment of the property.

for your end buyer that you're wholesaling it to. Right. And if you can, what we did here is we'll go and find three good property managers we like and recommend. And then we'll recommend those three to our cash buyers and let them decide which one they want to work. And, you know, we kind of them out. We make sure that they're responsive, that they return phone calls quickly, you know. Right.

And so that we've had pretty good success with that. don't be afraid, this is really important, don't be afraid to be honest with your investors and to tell them the truth about these deals and about what's going on. Because once you build that relationship with these investors, they'll start trusting you and then pretty soon they'll start buying anything that you give to them. And there's a real element of trust. And it's a serious responsibility. So you've got to make sure all your bases are covered and you're getting that stuff done.

You know, of course, there's also the title company. But once you start networking with people, you can find out from other wholesalers. You know, what title company are you using to double close or do assignments in your area? I've never had a problem just by networking and asking questions. People, you know, what rehabbers do you use? What contractors do you recommend? What property management companies do you use? And what title companies do you use?

Right. So the show that absolutely all of that is absolutely accurate and the bottom line there is to You need you got to build a team there you got to have a few people there and there's probably three or four that you're most important But you need the whole team eventually so there's step two and then the third one that you brought up that you raised in which I think is awesome And you also came up with a little system of how you determine that is to define where the demand is in that market to do that next and there's And there's two types of demand out there. There are people like buyer demand and there's also rental demand. So those are two types of demand.

And then you came with a good way to vet that. And that's all online vetting, of course. So that's kind of your quick and dirty math is what I like to call it. But you certainly, once you came up with those numbers, you certainly want to go and run that by the team that you created to get confirmation from them, don't you think? For sure. When you get your property manager, you can say, you know, I can see there's a bunch of activity going on. these zip codes.

And another source I like to use are truly a heat maps. I mean, if you just Google truly a heat maps, you'll see that. You can look at by county. And you can say to your property manager, to your other wholesalers, look, this is what I'm seeing as kind of a hotbed of activity. Is that really true? Is that accurate? And they'll tell you, well, yeah, there's a lot of cash buyers in that area,

but those cash buyers are the ones that are okay with being in a war zone. So on a grade scale of A to F, maybe that's a D or an F. So you start looking at it and digging it some more. Maybe throw those zip codes away and then look at the ones that are maybe the C or the D neighborhoods. That's what I've found right now is my sweet spot C neighborhoods where, you know, it's a good mixture of homeowners and rentals in the neighborhoods, you know, probably 50-50 of people who own houses. and 50% who are renting in these neighborhoods. And the cash flow numbers still work. So once you find out where the demand is,

you've got to talk to the buyers who are buying the houses out there and finding out what they want. What's their criteria? You know, have them walk you through a typical house. And what does it have to rent for? What's the most they'd be willing to pay in rehab? Right. And then give them realistic numbers

that include vacancies and repairs and property management and taxes and insurance and all that good stuff. Right. So basically investing remotely is the same thing as investing locally. All the same pieces have to be in place. Yes. And all the same research has to be done.

And I wouldn't say it's going to be any easier. I think it's just the same, right? Yeah. You know, I can't tell you that I do more work in one market than I do in my own market. it's just your team and the trust that you have with them. Yep. Let me add one more thing. I think we gave three steps.

I think the fourth step is once you've done your market research and you know where the demand is, the fourth step is to come up with a marketing plan. And I'm really big on this. You've got to know your numbers. So if you want to make $100,000 a year or $10,000 a month in this area, in the city, you need to know how much marketing you have to do every day, every week to get to that. There's some simple rules of thumb. You know, like if it's $10,000 a month that you need to make and your average profit is $5,000,

you need to do two deals, right? Well, let's just say that you only sell 30 or 75% of the houses you get under contract. So that means you need to get three properties under contract to sell two. Well, let's say you have to talk to 30 sellers. You have to get 30 leads to get one contract. So 30 times three is 90. You need 90 leads per month. And well, you need to work backwards then from that.

So let's say you're doing postcards and your average response rate is 2%. So let's say half of your leads come from postcards. So you work the numbers back. You take 45 divided by 2% or whatever. Let me just do that real quick. But that'll tell you how many postcards you need to send. If you need 45 leads per month from postcards and you're, average response rate is 2%. You take 45 divided by 0.02. And that means you need to send

2,200 postcards a month. Divide that by 4. You need to send 562 postcards per week. Right. Okay. Now, that's just half of your leads. Where are the other half of your leads going to come from? Well, you need to make sure you're doing at least three to four different marketing strategies, okay? So I like Craigslist. I like going into Craigslist and scraping all of the rentals and then contacting them to see if they want to sell their house. So I'll say, okay, every day I want to go in and I'm going to find 25 new properties on Craigslist and I'm going to send them a voice message, a text message, and an email. Okay, every day I'm going to do 25. And then every day I want to go into Zillow and find all the rentals and I'm going to send them a yellow letter.

So I'm going to send 10 yellow letters a day. And then I'm going to get on the phone and I'm going to call five property managers a day or something like that. So at the end, you sit down now you have a plan. It's nothing complicated. It can be on one piece of paper. where you know what you have to do every week. Every single day, this is the marketing that you're going to do. As you start, you've got to do it yourself first,

but as you start going, you can start building systems where other people can do that stuff for you, like maybe some virtual assistance, or maybe you can hire a telemark to make those calls for you and things like that. So you know your numbers. You have to send 500 postcards a week. You have contact a text message and voice blast,

25 people a day in Craigslist, you need to send 10 yellow letters and you need to make five phone calls a day. If you do that every day consistently, and if you're committed to it for the long haul, I can almost guarantee you're going to get leads. You're going to get tons of leads. Totally. Totally. That's awesome. I think that plan and the way you reverse engineer it is absolutely essential. And I think once you have that plan complete, step five of our of our investing remotely process would be to be honest with yourself, look at that plan and ask yourself, did I really execute a plan similar to this or comparable in my own backyard before I actually go to a new backyard? Yeah. And I think what most people find is that, no, I actually didn't do all of this

here. So that's why it didn't work. You know? It's funny because this business, you know, if you have to go through, you got to get 90 leads as you just shared it. And that one little example, that's 90 leads. Yeah. How many people out there have actually talked to 90 potential motivated sellers? Very few. Very few, not a whole lot. And talking through 90 leads to get those three deals, those three deals might come on your 87th, 88th, and 89th call.

Yes. And to go through 86 or 85 people that all said no to you and resulted to nothing, that takes a lot. And it's very easy after 20 calls to say, hey, this doesn't work. Right. It's very easy because it doesn't feel like 20 calls. It felt like 50. And it felt like everyone's a short sale. Nobody's buying here.

Everybody wants too much for their property. Everybody's unrealistic. It's too competitive out there. Like you can come up with all of those conclusions based off of 25. phone calls. And those 20 phone calls is not even remotely a cross-section or a good representation of your market. Yeah, exactly right.

You haven't even worked the numbers yet. And you're exhausted after those 20 calls. So that's just where I want the expectations to be realistically set. And before you leap to another market, which it's awesome if you do and you get it to work. But make sure that you haven't, you know, I guess made up your mind too quickly about your own market first. Right. You know, you got to ask yourself, how bad do you want it?

You know, that's, you got to be realistic. You got to have, and I would say maybe even double those numbers. Yeah, yeah. When you get, when you're done with the numbers, double them, exactly. Double everything. And how bad do you want it? You know, if you're intimidated by that, if you're afraid to get no, if you're afraid to get knows when you're talking to sellers,

then maybe this just isn't the business for you and you need to look at something else. There's no push-button magic, but once you do figure this out, it is pretty easy. And it blows me away that I can make $7,500 and I can do eight of those deals in a month just by implementing these systems

and being willing to invest the time and the resources into that marketing to get it done. Right, right. And it's, you know, and it is difficult. And I want to set that expectation. And I'm glad you said it. Maybe this isn't the business for you because that's real. That's, that's reality.

But here's the other side of the reality. Because I certainly don't want to end this on a grim, ooh, I don't want to do that type business. Because what I have always said to my coaching clients, I haven't talked about it that much on my podcast. But it's certainly, it's not because I, I didn't want to. It's just because it didn't fit.

It wasn't the appropriate subject matter or whatever. But I'm building a team right now that's emerging to be very successful right now in Cleveland. And one of the guy that's leading the team over there, I'll probably have him on the podcast here shortly. But I shared with him that the harder you work in generating those leads up front, the quicker the business is going to start calling you. you know that it's you know you kind of touched on it when you once you start to learn this business and wow you make $7,500 from a transaction it's that becomes easier and easier as you go along

I wouldn't say easier and easier but you don't have to work as hard to generate that because you're going to go through two phases and Joe you absolutely here I'm here in my business and it's you're going to go through a phase where you work really hard to generate leads. You have to spend a lot of time calling leads. But you will move over to a second phase where those leads start calling you. Yeah.

And the harder you work in that first phase, the quicker that that second phase comes to you. And I was bringing up the gentleman and my coaching client in Cleveland. He just sent me a text message over the weekend. We're recording this on a Monday. So yeah, it was on Saturday, I believe. He sent me a text saying that I can't believe

I just set four appointments this week, and I didn't make one phone call today. They called him. And I just kind of like, and he's all, he's all, he's right here at the end of his coaching, his coaching program. So he's really only been doing this for 90 days. That's it. And he couldn't believe it. And he was so excited.

Go ahead. You're going to get to a point. I look at some of the most successful wholesalers in my markets, you know. Mm-hmm. And some of them don't even do marketing anymore. Right. Because they just are getting so many referrals from other people. Yep.

It does get easier as you do this. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It does. I heard a great quote, and I think this is a little bit more apropos. It doesn't get easier. You get better. You know, you said that, you know, in the beginning, if you're scared and nervous,

and you got to practice, you got to develop that skill. And whether you practice on real live leads or you practice with a friend or associate, you still have to go through the practice period. That's good. And once you get there, you are getting better and better and better. And then, you know, indirectly, or I guess around the back way, it feels like that it's getting easier. But it's just you're getting better. Well, yeah, and you're absolutely right because sellers can smell blood from a mile away.

I mean, if they can sense you're motivated and you kind of don't know what you're talking about, it hurts. It hurts your success. But if you can come in with confidence, like, you know, look, I, I, I, you know, I, I, you know, that's great if I can do this deal, but I don't have to. You have that kind of a confidence with you. The seller's going to trust you more and be more likely to say yes to you. So you get that with practice. You get that with experience.

But sometimes, you know, if you're a beginner, you just got to fake it until you make. Don't get discouraged. That, man, I'm just getting started. This is hard work. Yep. Yep. So you got to fake it until you make it. But, man, you got, I think the main thing I've gotten out of all of this is you've got to be consistent with this marketing.

That's such a key. If you just say, I'm going to try this and see if it works. Just don't. Just quit right now. Forget it because it's not going to work. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's consistency and my new word that I added to the dictionary, persistency.

You got to be consistent and persistent. Absolutely. Yes. Cool. So I think we're about out of time, Joe. Before we go, what do you got going on in your business? What are you really excited about? What do you want to promote and share with the people?

Anything? Well, you know, you got a great podcast, but I have to say it's not as good as mine. Just kidding. I got a podcast that a lot of you guys already know. It's real estate investing mastery. Boy, I think we've been doing our real estate podcasts for about the same time, Matt. I'm starting to get back into the swing of things. The summer's almost over.

And I'm going to be starting to do more regular episodes. I'm way backlogged on episodes to release. but I'm excited about our podcast. We interview a lot of really cool people that are doing deals and we don't hold anything back. If you just go to real estate investing mastery.com or if you go to iTunes and just do a search for real estate investing, you'll see us up there on the list right next to Matt, real estate investing mastery. And so I enjoy the podcast. We have a cool thing on there if somebody wants to get our fast cash survival kit. We call it Fast Cash Survival Kit.

In there, I have my co-host, Alex, who wholesales a lot of deals and rehabs a lot of deals. We have like a free course on there on how to wholesale properties, whether they have equity or not, how we do all over marketing, how we find hire and train our virtual assistance. And it's a pretty valuable resource. I don't know why we give it away for free. So check that out. Yeah. And then if you're interested in my wholesaling lease option stuff, I do have a course on that.

Just go to wholesalingleaseoptions.com. Wholesailingleaseoptions.com. And you can see what I have there. Perfect. Well, Joe, it's always a pleasure. And as usual, we are way over time. That's just kind of how our conversations go. You're a wealth of information.

I enjoy every second that we get to chat. So thank you so much for coming on the show. We'll certainly have you back. Thanks, man. Hey, real quick, are you coming to St. Louis soon? I already miss you. Yeah, I would think, sometime October for sure.

Definitely one time before the year ends, but I think it's going to be October. Could be as late as the first week of November, but it's going to be probably October. We keep on missing each other when you're here. I know. And we'll get better with our schedules this time. Super.

All right. Thanks a lot, bud, for being on a show. All right, Matt, see you. Take care. Take care, bud. All right. So if you happen to have a question, comment, or concern that you'd like me to answer or address here live on the show,

please do so. You can share those with me on the Epic Real Estate Investing Hot line and that number is 1-888-891-7203. 1-88-88-891-7203. And if you want Joe to answer your question, go on over to his podcast at Real Estate Investing Mastery. Awesome dude, awesome information. They got a lot of great interviews, great stories.

And they're just a wealth of information over there as well. You always want to connect yourself and you want to attach yourself to the guys that are really doing real estate. There's a lot of gurus out there and a lot of teachers and education. haters that used to do real estate or they did real estate once that think they can now teach it. You know, in my opinion, you know, if, what's the ancient Chinese proverb? I think of something like to know and not do is to not know. And so you want to attach your boat. You want to attach yourself to the doers. That's where you want to get your real information from. And Joe and

Alex, they're definitely fall into that group. They're part of that elite category. So check them out over there. And until next time to your success, I'm Matt Terrio. the dream. You've been listening to Epic Real Estate Investing, the world's foremost authority on separating the facts from the BS in real estate investing education. If you enjoyed this show, please take a minute to visit iTunes and share your thoughts. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time here at Epic Real Estate Investing with Matt Terrio. This podcast is a part of the C-suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit c-sweetradio.com.