Epic Real Estate Investing - Getting the Contract Signed with Jeff Garner | 261

Episode Date: May 1, 2017

Check out this special episode of Epic Real Estate Investing featuring the creative energy of St. Louis real estate investor Jeff Garner. Find out how Jeff grew into real estate investing and persevered through numerous challenges to find big success today. Learn how you can bridge the gap between deals that may pay and deals that pay big. Breakdown some new techniques for finding deals and discover some methods to refine your process for securing contracts. ______   The free course is new and improved!  To access to the two fastest and easiest strategies to a paycheck in real estate, go to FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com or text “FreeCourse” to 55678. What interests you most? • E.ducation • P.roperties • I.ncome • C.oaching Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Terrio Media. Broadcasting from Terrio Studios in Glendale, California, it's time for Epic Real Estate Investing with Matt Terrio. Hello, and welcome to Epic Real Estate investing. This is the place where I show people how to escape the rat race using real estate. And if you're just getting started and or you're looking for new and creative ways of making money in real estate, I've put together a free course just for you, including a chance. checklist on how to find motivated sellers. These are property owners that are willing and able to sell you their property at a discount. It's a big mystery to a lot of people, but I put that checklist together for you, so it is no longer a mystery for you. So to access that free course, go to free real estate investing course.com, free real estate investing course.com. No funny spellings,

no hyphens, no periods, just free real estate investing course.com. And I got a great guest for you today, got a great show for you today. And we'll get to him in just a second. But we're running out of time. May 24th through the 26th is approaching very quickly. It's the epic intensive weapons of mass production. It's the epic three-day live event where you're going to get the highly potent and powerful tools, the methods and the resources that every real estate investor can use to find more motivated sellers, more buyers and lenders in as little as 60 seconds.

Yeah, I'm going to show you a few strategies of how you can generate leads just like that. Even if you think you've heard it all before, I'm going to show you. something that you probably haven't heard before because no one taught this to me. I learned it on my own. So I'm going to share it with you. It's working for us here. And it's just not cool to know something that can help somebody and keep it a secret. So that we're going to reveal that.

And so with these weapons of mass production at your disposal, you're going to be able to find more deals, cash more checks, and finally just start calling the shots in your life. Start calling and taking control of your business. All right? So that's May 24th through the 26th. Go to epicintensive.com. Now, our guest today will be in the house at the Epic Intensive to help me arm you with and turn you into a weapon of mass production yourself.

He's a master negotiator, a fire breathing deal closer, an owner of starting point real estate. He specializes in the St. Louis and St. Charles markets of Missouri. He's got over 15 years of experience buying and redeveloping homes in his market. And his company has become the go-to real estate company in St. Louis. And he'll be on hand to share his ninja negotiating secrets to help you bridge the gap between, you know, those easy deals and those not so easy deals, that stuff in that no man's land that you might be missing out a few opportunities. It's going to help you close that gap.

So without further ado, please help me welcome to the show, Mr. Jeff Garner. Jeff, welcome to Epic Real Estate Investing. Thank you, Matt. I appreciate it, man. Yeah, glad you made it, buddy. Huh? What's that? I'm excited.

Yeah, me too. We've had this on the calendar for a minute, and here we are. So let's just get started. You've never been on the show before. Let's share a little with everybody a little bit about your background. What made you want to get involved into real estate investing in the first place? Well, I started off, you know, my father was a real estate broker and my mother was a real estate agent. So I had been around, you know, I can remember being in the car while my dad went in and showed property when I was five or six years old,

being completely miserable sitting out there waiting how long it was going to take him to sell the house. And then when we were around 10, he would grab me and a couple of my buddies from the neighborhood and take us over to rehabs he was doing. And give us $3 an hour and a sledgehammering. We'd get to do demo. And so it really has been in my blood. But the big change in my mindset was when I got into the business when I was 22 years old, I had success pretty quick. I had developed a niche for selling to real estate investors. So finding the deals and then selling it to them for a commission.

And so I'd go to the closing and I'd pick up a check, you know, 15, sometimes really big one, $2,200, $2,300. You know, this is in 97, in the early 2000s. And they would come and double closed and leave with a check for 20, 25, 15. So right then and there, I thought, you know, There's something wrong with this picture. I'm finding the deals and taking them to them. I'm telling them what they have to pay to buy it.

They listen to me 100%. They trust me. I don't even have to show it to them. Most of the time, I'll just tell them. And they trust me, they go and they always make money. So I thought, you know, why, if they can, I can. So, you know, that's how, that's what started that. That's really, that's crazy because, you know, as much time have we spent together

as much as we've talked shop. We've never actually compared that part of our stories because that's exactly how it happened for me. You know, being a real estate agent and had a couple investors as just consistent clients. And the reason I got into real estate in the first place was because someone just told me that's where the money's at. And I started to think like, wow, if this is where the money's at, I think I'm sitting on the wrong side of the desk.

Right? I need to be the other guy over there that is buying from me. So interesting. I did not know that. All right. So you decided to make this transition from agent, I guess, to a real estate investor. Absolutely. So I started doing it part-time because, you know, and I compare this to a lot of people with your

nine to five job or just any other kind of job. It's hard. It's scary to leave what you know. And it's scary to leave that consistency. So I was making good money. You know, I'm in my late 20s and mid to late 20s. And I'm making up, you know, 100,000 a year. and then I started doing rehabs and I did I got up to 10 or 12 a year always be you know

honestly hating the real estate agent gig just but it was consistent money and how do you and it was really scary to walk away from that so I got up to 10 or 12 deals a year and I did that for a few years really thinking this year I'm going to you know bridge that gap this year I'm going to you know I'm going to walk away from the commissions and bite the bullet but I just just couldn't get myself to do it. And I, you know, when I'm talking to someone new and they work at Boeing, Microsoft or wherever, they're sick of sitting in the cubicle, I understand how hard that is to leave that $500,000 a week check, even though you know you can quadruple it on the other side.

So that's kind of where I was at. And then 2008 came and that made the decision for me. You know, when all my real estate investors weren't buying, nothing I had was selling, there basically, there were no commissions. So I was doing whatever I could to make a check for a while. And honestly, I lost all my money because it was, I started getting outside of my wheelhouse. I started getting a little cocky, getting a little arrogant. So I started investing in Florida, even though I'm a Missouri guy.

I know real estate here. I'm not going to get hurt here no matter what the market does. because I'm not in anything deep enough. I got an investment. Hey, Jeff, real quick. Let me interrupt real quick. Yeah. It sounds like, are you banging on your desk as you're talking?

Are you getting animated? Probably, yeah. If you guys could all see me, there's a show going on here, man. Right? No, I like the enthusiasm. It's just, it's coming over a little bit louder over your voice. But go ahead. Okay.

All right. All right. All right. All right. So you're Missouri guy. You're investing in Florida. Go ahead. I'm doing pre-construction deals, 50, $60,000, and earn this money before the deal.

the deal is even built, you know, under the, under the idea that by the time it's built, the market will increase by 20, 25%, I can sell it and never even have to close on it. Did a deal like that, made 150 grand, and then I just started moving my money that way as I was a real estate agent at home. And then when the market crashed, mortgage crisis, whatever you want to call it, I lost all that money. So I was sitting there with no income, no savings, some two or three rentals here in St. Louis that were intended on being rehabs because the market was really good. When it crashed, I couldn't sell them. I had to make a decision.

You know, it just seemed to me that that was my sign that I need to get in investing full time. This was going to be my opportunity. I really had no choice. I was kind of forced into it. And so not to get into the whole story, because I know the show is not about it. Basically, I started just formulating a plan to be a full-time investor in a down market. And what that meant was knocking on doors of people that were in foreclosure and telling them I could help. And, you know, within six, seven, eight months, I'd had about 35 short sales in the pipeline and started the process of building myself back up and being a full-time real estate investor.

So got it, got it. So very familiar story. Yeah. And kudos for you for fighting your way back. A lot of people left and never came back. Yeah. Awesome. It's a testament to you and your character.

So working your way back, I mean, I think a lot of people took advantage of that short sale market. And then, you know, those aren't so abundant anymore. If you're lucky to even come across one or unlucky, I guess, depending on how you look at it. Right? Right. So finding your deals today. How are you, because I know you find a lot of deals. And, you know, you're one of our providers. And we got to go out and do the bus tour in St. Louis just recently.

So what is the number one, two, three strategies for you finding deals right now? That's on top of everybody's mind. Well, Matt, I've been through every strategy, you know, from the up markets to where you could buy them off the MLS and the HUD and make great money to the down markets to where courthouse steps. was where you go. And now where we're finding all our deals is direct seller marketing, you know, either postcards, PPC, organic webs, organic SEO, and realtors. I'll be honest with you. The cheapest one is the realtors.

But that requires the most time because you're, you know, you're going to have to go out there and go to lunch and invest, you know, building relationships with these. realtors, but they're a wonderful source deals. And so those, that's just our three best strategies right now is PPC, SEO, and referrals from realtors. Right. Got it.

Your direct mail, it's ebbing and flowing and some places that's still thriving with the direct mail as far as the response rate. In some places, it's just turned into absolute crickets. What is your experience? We're between thriving and crickets. Got it. So if thriving's a 10 and crickets are a zero, we're at about a four and a half to six, depending on the day.

I've actually been thinking about that, Matt. Well, one little tip I'll give it a minute, but I've been really thinking hard about if it's a viable strategy in today's market anymore. But I will tell you this. I ran across something that you might look into, too. Maybe you've already heard of it. It's new to me. It's called Street View Mailers.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Have you heard of them? No, I haven't. Okay. A local company here that actually, they're local here, but they actually do all of Memphis Invest mailing too, so they do some national stuff. They're putting every postcard.

I don't care if you give them a list of $10,000, $20, $30, or $40. They're taking a Google Maps street view and imposing it on the face of the card. It's almost the whole front of the card and it says, we'd like to be. buy this house. Wow. So they're opening their mailbox and they can have 10 cards, but one of them has the picture of their actual house and says, I want to buy this house. And you flip over and it gives you the benefits and things like that. And the guy I know mailed them went from this. I don't remember his exact mailings. It's like 20,000. He got 129 responses before was his numbers or his average. The same list got 380 with that card.

Wow. That's a strategy I used to use as a real estate agent when you'd go market for absentee owners. I would say I'd actually drive the neighborhood, take a picture, and mail it to them. Have you seen your house lately? Yeah. We put some beer bottles on the front porch and everything. You know, no, we wouldn't do that. Well, sometimes we would. But these houses already have beer bottles. These already have beer bottles. Okay. They got those photoshopped in there. No, perfect. So it's automated, really. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's something to look into for every. everyone doing direct mail. I'm not telling everyone local. I want to get a little bit of a jump on it. But, you know, here, I think for your, for your listeners, it's a good tip. Yeah, we got a few days before this air, so you're good to go. All right, cool. You're totally sick. Super. So, all right. So the reason I having you out to the epic intensive, because, you know, we've talked a lot.

Then we've boreded the girlfriends to death based on our talking shop at the dinner table. And, you know, we were talking really about what the process is for you. you when you go from that, when you get that lead and setting the appointment to getting the contract signed. Can you kind of just walk us through that, that process that you go through? Yeah, absolutely. You know, when we get the lead, the first thing about getting the lead is building rapport and, well, first is the transition agreement is what I call it. It's kind of a diagnosis agreement, or I'm sorry, not a diagnosis.

kind of an advanced agreement type of situation to where we let them know exactly what is going to happen on that phone call from beginning to end. Okay. Kind of like an upfront agreement, they call it in other marks of sales. Yeah, yeah. I call it a transition because you use it at different parts of the sale to transition to the next part. Got it, got it.

Okay. So you might go from the phone to the appointment, you know, to where you meet them. And then when you get there, you're going to transition, get another. transition agreement on what's going to happen between the time you walk right then and there until you leave. So in my transition agreements, we always cover time, process, and the outcome. And so for me, that's really big because, and you do it very casually, you know, it's a conversation. And the reason we do that is because a lot of these sellers, as you know, they have, they're scared. and they're afraid they're going to someone's trying to steal the house from them or they're going to get screwed over.

And so they hold back most of the pertinent information that you need to know to see if they're a motivated seller or it's a deal. So I find, you know, once you get in, you give, I guess this transition agreement would be your upfront agreement, you know, be, you know, hey, Mr. Seller, we really appreciate you calling. If you have five to ten minutes, we're going to ask you some questions about your situation and the property and kind of get a good idea what we're working with. And at the end of that, if it's something you want to continue to go forward with, and it sounds like something that fits our model, then we'll set an appointment to come out and take a look at it. And if it's not, if it's something that you don't feel like you want to go forward with for any reason, we're okay with that too. And you can just a lot of times feel the pressure come off, you know, like, okay, all right, awesome. We know what's going to happen. You know, five or ten minutes, he's going to ask me some questions and I can say no in the end, you know?

They've got things going through their head. Is this guy going to take no for an answer? or is he going to come and is he going to beat me up? Is he going, you know, is he going to beat me up with the questioning and, and try to make me feel like my house is worth nothing? And so you're kind of, you're, you're, you're, that transition from, you know, you called me with whatever's going on in your mind to what's actually going to happen can be, you know, can loosen them up and enable them to enable you to get the answers you need,

you know, and that's really important. Right. I don't want to interrupt because you're on a flow. but watch your hands. Okay. All right. I need to tie these. I'm like, have you seen Talladega nights?

No, I haven't. Okay, well, one of your listeners has, and they're going to appreciate this. Will Ferrell's in that movie, and he's a goofball, and he's doing this interview, and he doesn't know what to do with his hands. So some people know what I'm talking. Well, back away from the desk. Exactly. I know.

Okay. So, you know, that's where you kind of find out who your decision-maker's. are, you know, um, yeah, there's, so let me back up a little here. So that transition agreement, then part two is when you get into the assessment, you know, or the diagnosis of the deal to where, um, we're asking questions. You know, if I've learned anything, um, from some of my sales training and my time is that questions are our best tool that we have to diagnose something. Um, And the best questions are impact questions or there are questions that kind of dig deep and to find out what someone's either pains, pleasures, you know, what's the solution to their problems,

kind of kind of get them to give you the answers on. So that's when we start getting into that process. Now, I also learned along the way that a guy named Neil Rackman did a study that over like a 10-year period and the best salesman ask impact questions. Good salesman to okay, they ask descriptive questions, you know, how many bedrooms, how many baths, what condition, you know, how long have you been there? What condition is the property in? So whenever I'm, you know, what I've learned is to ask, you know, oh, how long have you been in the house, you know, Mr. Seller, you know, I start digging in to find out what their real motivation is and what benefit they're going to get out of this to sell

it besides just money. And so we start that process and we start, you know, kind of assessing what's going on. And, you know, it's a good time to slow things down and, you know, get some information about the property and build rapport with them at the same time, you know? So, you know, generally then that way, we, you know, we. We kind of, if we're lucky, we get them to like us and we get some insight into what really is going on there. And, you know, we get as much as we can without getting too deep on the call so that we can

pass on to my acquisition specialist or our home buyer to give him enough info to be armed when he gets there so that he can instantly have rapport by knowing exactly, you know, what's all with the people and what the conversation was. So, and in that way, we can get a feel. A lot of times we'll throw a range out there to get a kind of a feel on where the price is and what they'd be comfortable with to make sure it makes sense. If we're already on the computer while they're talking, you know, doing just a Zillow or something to get an idea on what that property is worth and look at the comps.

And we already know the max it could be worth as 100 and they want one. 10, then we start to have to get in, we have to get into price a little bit and start kind of can lowering their expectations to see where they're at. And if it's something that sounds like they're reasonable, we set the appointment and we go out there. So. Got it. Yeah.

That's the beginning process. You know, it's basically a conversation. It's letting them know it's okay to say no. It's letting them know that we don't buy all the houses that we look at or, you know, from all the people that we talk to, kind of, you know, we like to push instead of pull, you know. You know, it's the natural instinct of most people to want. I mean pull rather than push, right? Yeah, pull rather than push. That's right.

Yeah. So, you know, and I think it can be the opposite, you know. you know, salesmen want to sell, sell, sell, sell. And in my experience is we're probably about 50% better when we are almost trying to talk them out of the sale. Right. You know? Right. And just getting information.

And by doing that, a lot of times they just start telling you, well, no, I can't, really, I can't list it because the truth is it has a foundation problem. Or the truth is, we're four months behind on our payments. and, you know, or the husband says, I got 30 days to sell it, you know, in the divorce. And if I don't, then, you know, he gets it, you know, then you'll get the information they're trying to hold back from giving you. Sweet. So three things I heard specifically, and we teach something similar inside the academy, but I like your twist on it.

First is there's kind of setting the expectations, tell them what's going to happen. and second thing is giving them the ability to say no we call that a release statement in our world so you're not going to get a real yes unless you give somebody the ability to say no and then you just let them know that you're not afraid to walk away from the that you're not you're very willing to walk away from the deal absolutely right those three things yeah absolutely absolutely that you know you're going for the no yeah you know you're going for the no and if you don't get it, then also. And you're probably going to have a deal that you're going to land when you go on that appointment.

And if you get the no, then they weren't motivated. And you can follow with them. Based on the, I know you do a ton of marketing, you generate a lot of calls. What would you say is the ratio between motivated and verse non-motivated callers that you get? Well, it depends on the marketing. And direct mail, I'd say. 70, 30, 70 not motivated or tire kickers or unable to sell, 30% have the ability. Now, it doesn't mean that they're, you know, that they're ready right then, but that they have the ability to sell.

I mean, that's the first step of being motivated, what I would call a motivated seller. Now, PPC is more probably flip-flop. 70% have the ability to sell and 30% don't. Now, the experience with PPC is very highly competitive. You have to have your sales process fine-tuned and dialed in, and you have to be on top of those leads. And if you can be, then you will buy some houses and you will make some money in today's market.

If you're not answering your phones live or it takes you a while to get back to them or you don't sell, you don't know how to sell, you just think, you know what, I'm going to go. I'm going to give my best offer. And if they don't like it, fine. You might not ever buy a house on a PPC lead. Maybe occasionally. You have really have your ducks in a row these days. Answering your phone live, have a pre-scripted process you're going to go through with these people. you know, a way, you know, that uncovers the truth, gets to their real motivation, gives them more motivation, gets you in the door within a 24-48-hour period.

And once you get there, you have another process on selling them. And you'll land contracts and you'll make money. But if you don't, it's really competitive. And even though it is 70% motivated, you know, you'll... You got to be ready. You got to be on it, right? You've got to be on it. Totally.

And, you know, you're one of the best that I know of being on top of it and having a process. And that's why I've invited you to come out to the intensive. So you can share that process with everybody. And that's what you plan on doing, correct? Absolutely. Wink, wink. That's what we agree on, isn't it? Absolutely.

No, absolutely. I've been working diligently here. Actually, you know, fine tuning it and building it out. So when I get there, we have a hell of a presentation can take everybody through it. And from beginning to end, maybe even do a little role play and just and give everything that I know and that I teach my acquisitions guys to give them a 50% close rate, which is what we've got over the last three months. I'm going to share with the people there. Fantastic. Really looking forward to it.

Because I know there's, you know, your direct mail is still pretty much the number one source of generating leads for, for real estate investors. You know, the marketing piece and the marketing approach, that might shift a little bit. But marketing always works. I mean, marketing works, period, or else people would just stop spending money on marketing if it didn't. Just you've got to fluctuate a little bit and, you know, go with the times and like I said, it ebbs and flows. But with the PPC, it's like you have to talk to a lot less people and you can still do the same amount of deals. and sometimes even under budget if you are prepared and if you have the skills and it can be a lot easier, less stressful way to do this business.

So, but you got to develop the skill and you have to have the process in place. So that's what we're going to. That was the whole intent of inviting you. So again, really looking forward to having you out there. Me, I'm excited, man. I'm excited. Super. So what are you noticing in the market and how is it changing the way you're doing business now?

Having been through a couple cycles, what are you noticing now and how is it changing the way you're doing business? Well, you know, honestly, it's getting very competitive, which goes back to having that process down. And it also, you know, prices are rising fast. Now, not like they were. I think we're at a very healthy rise in the market. I think it's a little bit of recovery.

So I'm not too scared of. it. So I'm being aggressive. I'm more aggressive than we were. We're putting in, we're putting in more offers at and stepping up our formula a little bit, some from buying so much more on the low end to kind of raising it up. You know, we generally try to be 60, 65 percent. I'm, you know, creeping up. If it means I can land a deal before I leave, I'll write it at 70, 71, 72, and test the market with that property. And my. building inspection period. And be a little aggressive on it because it is so competitive.

And the inventory for a lot of investors is low because they don't have the processes and systems down, you know, to land a deal at the table, the seller's table. And so really, we're getting a little more aggressive. We're trying to get creative in that marketing aspect. Like I was telling you with the street view cards like that, I'm just really We've got my ears and eyes open trying to see what the next new thing is that will put us above everyone else. And just getting a little more aggressive. I don't like to renegotiate.

I don't like to put something under contract and come back and renegotiate later. But I'm doing a little more of it because what I'm finding is I might be scared. I might say I need to pay $120 for this house, but I can get it at $125. And if I leave this house, I know there's no chance of me getting it because there's going to be other competitors. Someone's going to come along and do it. So we will do our best to get that number as low as possible and we'll write it. And I'll test the market. I have 10-day windows in my contracts.

And I'll test the market in that 10 days. And if I was wrong, then I will go back as fast as I can and try to renegotiate. And if it doesn't work out, I'll let them out of the contract. But see, I used to walk away from those and just look for ones that I can land right there at the price I wanted. I was not going to budge. But there's so much activity and so much money to be made right now. I don't really want to walk away from anything because there's a, there's a shot. There's an opportunity. I mean, I've had a couple where we've made 10 or 15,000 on assigning them that I didn't think was going to be a deal, but we didn't, we wanted to try. So we put it under

contract and gave it a shot and ended up glad we did. So we've gotten more aggressive. And, And I'm still, we are every day fine-tuning the sales process to, you know, the first goal is to get there as fast as possible. You know, the second goal is to get the contract. And the best way to get that contracts, answer the phone as fast as possible, get to their house as fast as possible. Diagnose them properly so that you can offer them everything they need, not just money, but everything they would need to. solve whatever problem's going on right then and there and if you can do that for people they'll make a decision so we're just working really hard at that simple few steps there you know diagnose get to the appointment make the best offer possible and that doesn't

just mean monetarily it could mean help you know it could mean cleaning up it could mean helping them find another place. It could mean doing a state sale for them, having, you know, which I have, I don't do them personally. I have a referral that gives them the extra money that we can to get them up to where they really wanted to be, if that means sense. So we're trying to do whatever we can to solve their problems and whatever we can to give them what they need to get that contract signed that day. Got it. Got it. You know, someone, let's throw on the curriculum there as just something that as the market is shifting, you're getting a little bit more aggressive and you're saying you're quickly testing the market. Let's also go over at the intensive on how you're quickly testing the market to know whether you do have a deal or not because I think that's a concern for people. Okay. All right. Let's do that. Super. So I know we both got to run. We've got to wrap this up. It's been an absolute pleasure. If any listener wanted to reach out to you, what would be the best way for them to do that? Well, you know, I'd say shoot me an email or go to Facebook. My email's Jeff at starting point re.com and wholesale page is starting point or I'm sorry, Facebook page is starting point real estate. Fantastic.

Well, thanks, Jeff. It's been an absolute pleasure. We'll do it again. In fact, we're going to do it very soon in person, just a few weeks away. If you do not have your ticket for the Epic Intensive, go to Epicintensive. The prices are rising, the closer we get to capacity. We are just about sold out as it is. So go quickly.

Don't hesitate. And Jeff, I'll see you very soon. All the best to you and yours. And take care, bud. Absolutely. I'm excited, buddy. Thank you. Me too.

Me too. All right. That's it for today. I will see you next week on another episode of Epic Real Estate Investing. Actually, on Wednesdays, we're doing Epic Wealth Wednesdays. We're rerunning the Epic Wealth podcast on Wednesdays. So that's a little bit of a sequential. kind of a serial type episode

or it's a serial type show. I started a whole other podcast on another channel, but something happened with the way that Google was doing their, or not the Google, but iTunes was doing their algorithms and nobody even heard it.

And some of my best work, I put my heart and soul into this. So I'm making that available to you, so you have access to that, and that's each and every Wednesday. So I'll see you in a couple days for that. And then we've started what you call it,

Financial Freedom Fridays again, where we run the videos on Fridays. All righty. So I will see you. Wednesday, Friday, and Monday. All right. God bless to your success. I'm Matt Terrio. Living the Dream. You've been listening to Epic Real Estate Investing, the world's foremost authority on separating the facts from the BS in real estate investing education. If you enjoy this show, please take a minute to visit iTunes and share your thoughts. Thanks for listening. We'll see you

next time here at Epic Real Estate Investing with Matt Terrio. This podcast is a podcast part of the C-suite radio network. For more top business podcasts, visit c-sweetradio.com.