Epic Real Estate Investing - How to Cash Flow Raw Land w/ Jack Bosch | Episode 107

Episode Date: May 26, 2014

Matt has typically turned his nose up at investing in "raw land" due to its high speculative nature, but perhaps he's changed his mind a bit after talking to his guest today Jack Bosch. Check it out and see what you think... ------------------------- Download Matt's free real estate investing course "How to Do Deals | No Money Required" at FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com or text FreeCourse to 55678 "Click" what interests you most:  Education Properties Income    Coaching Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Broadcasting from Terrio Studios in Glendale, California, it's time for Epic Real Estate Investing with Matt Terrio. Hello. Hello, and welcome. Welcome to another episode of Epic Real Estate Investing. If this is your first time listening to the show, welcome. Super happy that you are here. This is the place where I teach people how to escape the rat race by investing in real estate. You see, a while back, I changed one thing, just one time, and I escaped that proverbial rat race forever.

And that one thing that I changed, I changed my focus. I changed my focus from making piles of cash to making streams of cash. And that right there, that one little shift that changed my life forever. And if I had to start from scratch, if I had to, like, do it all over again, I'd do it exactly the same way. I wouldn't change a thing. And I would do exactly the same way whether I had money and credit to work with. or not because I didn't have any when I did get started. You see, while I was finding my way, I stumbled upon 12 different strategies of investing in

real estate with little to no money. And in hindsight, you know, being forced to invest that way, being forced to get started with no money or credit, I believe that made me a better investor. And I want to make you a better investor as well. So I put the first two strategies of the 12 that I use regularly. I put those two of which I believe are also the easiest and the fastest strategies to a paycheck in real estate. I've put them into a free course just for you.

And you can access that free course at free real estate investing course.com. And if you'd like to get it quicker or sooner rather than later, you want to get it right away and you're not in front of your computer, you can go ahead and text free course to 55678. And you'll get that right there on your smartphone. All righty. So I got a great show for you today. Our guest is a fellow investor from a mastermind group of which I belong. It's a very large group.

And he's a newer member, and I'm rather intrigued about his strategy. He's very successful. And today we're going to get to know him a little better. We're going to learn about what he does and how he does it. It should be exciting. So please help me welcome Mr. Jack Bosch to the Epic Real Estate Investing podcast. Jack, welcome to the show. Well, thank you very much.

I'm excited to be here. Good, yeah. We're excited to have you as well. So we haven't actually got to meet, but we had a mutual friend, our leader of our mastermind group put us together. And, you know, just based on the quick conversation we had just before we started recording, I'm very interested in your strategy. But if we could start with, you know, what was your, what was the initial attraction for you in real estate? How did you get started? Just kind of a little bit about your background.

If you could share that first. Sure, absolutely. Well, first of all, my background is I'm not originally from the United States. I'm actually from Germany originally. So you can probably tell for my accent, I sound like Arnold Schwarzenegger. But I don't look like him. I'll be back. Go ahead. Hello? I'm sorry.

I interrupted you with a really bad joke, so go ahead. That's right. So, no, I'm originally from Germany, and I came to this country in 1997. And I got, I did with everyone, said. So what you said in the introduction right now in the intro, what really hit on the head. because I made that switch that you made. I was working in the job world, and I was really just plainly unhappy.

That's my motivation by I started in something else. Now, it wasn't logically real estate for me because, honestly, I didn't have a clue about real estate. I mean, I'm coming from another country. I didn't even know the real estate language. I didn't really know anything about real estate. From the way houses are being built in the United States, which is completely different than Europe,

like not wood, but stone over there. And I had never built anything over there either. I was dealt with anything in the real estate. So I was a complete newbie to the Roeth world. So Roeth wasn't the first answer. I looked at just any way that I could make enough money that I could just replace that job income was basically what I was looking for because I was traveling a lot. I was waiting for my family.

I was a very stressful job. I worked many hours. And I just didn't like it. And on top of it, I almost got laid off because I was to a recession in 2000. 2000 and 2001, it's more recession, mainly in the online technology world. And I happen to work for a technology company, which I don't know much about technology either, but I was there in a business department. And so I basically desperately looked for something else that I could do that,

that I could build up some income so I could leave my job. And then when I stumbled upon real estate, and out of a lot of trial and error, I figured out I developed the methods that I've used to the stay very successfully. Awesome. Awesome. So when you got into real estate, the, you know, did you just jump in or did you try to educate yourself?

Did you attend a workshop, read a book? How did that, how did you bridge that gap? Yeah, I basically went and went online, looked for some things. Now, that was 2000, that was 1997, 1999, 2000. So over those years, there wasn't that much available online yet. There were no podcasts, for that matter. And none of those things. So it's so easy to get educated today versus back then.

And now I went to the library. I bought some books. I went to Barsanovels, and actually didn't even buy the books. I read the books. I got the books, went to the coffee shop, had a coffee, and just started reading. And started getting educated, first of all, about the language of rural space. What is a deed, for example? What is a deed restriction?

What is an escrow process? I mean, all those kind of things that I really didn't even know what that means. And then I, yeah, over that process, I came across a book on wholesaling, and I followed that. I followed that. And I wasn't able to pull up my first deal. I got a Treplex under contract, contract that I thought was worth, about $75,000, $80,000 in a kind of a bad area of town. And I got on the contract $45,000. And nobody would buy that thing.

from me for more than that. So I guess I underpriced it wrong. It was the kind of property, but I freaked out, I backed out, and I couldn't even make that happen at the beginning. And then I came across of what I focus now on, which is actually land. And

all of a sudden, I was starting to make money because I focused on land deals that other people don't really focus on, and in a way that most people don't do it, and that turned out very, very profitable for me. Got it. Got it. Okay. So, So the wholesaling, you tried that and that didn't work.

So after one time you went and looked for a new strategy and you got into land, which is a rather unlikely path. Right. I'm curious, when you did get started, what did your situation look like with regard to your finances and your resources? Sure. Well, I was, as I said, an immigrant in this country. I came to this country with student loans and still had one year of college to do it to finish my college degree. So when I started looking, I was basically still in debt. I was paying off my death.

I just married my wife. And that's wedding cost money, so I was even more in debt. And I literally had, we had saved up about $3,500. And basically my wife and I said, you know what? That's the money that we're going to be willing to put at risk here, and that we've got the money that we're going to play with it. If it's gone, we're going to move on to something else. And if we can make it more, well, great.

And from a credit point of view, we didn't really have credit because when you come to this country, you come with no credit. And no credit is pretty much just as bad as bad credit. Right, right. Because if you have no credit, nobody gives you credit. So if nobody gives you credit, you don't improve your credit. So we slowly build up our credit with getting a three-paid credit card for $500, $500 in the bank to give us a $500 credit card. So we were starting to build this up, but we were really having very, still at that point, barely any credit or if any. And that's how we started.

I'm sorry, there was talking going out in the hallway, and I had to go hush them up a little bit because it was coming through on the microphone. Okay, so you had $3,500, and you had really no credit to speak of. Right. And when was it when you pulled off that first, or what year was it when you pulled off that first land transaction? That one happened. I mean, basically I spent, from 1999 to 2002, I spent my time honestly just dabbling. I was working a lot. I got married in 2001. And once we say really seriously taken and said, let's pick real estate. Real estate is going to be the path. It was the beginning of 2002. And then we still, then that's when we got that wholesale deal in the middle of 2002. And then towards the end of the 2002, but always there was always like phases where I just dropped it and I said you know what let's focus on something else I'm busy at work and and then I always came back to it so then finally at the end of 2002 literally Christmas day of 2002 we had just sent out some some letters people had called us we had made some offers

and the Christmas day of 2002 which I checked my voicemail and there was somebody who said hey I accept your offer for this piece of land and I'm sending in the contract you should receive it in the next few days that's awesome and so that was the first day. It was the best Christmas gift ever. Yeah, I'll say. It's funny as an agent. And that deal we got for $400.

We got a piece of land with a house on each side, it's a lot with a house on each side for $400. No mortgage on it, no back taxes or anything like that. Just plain out for you a $400. Well, that's an awesome deal. Where was this? Antarctica? No, it was actually a small town in Arizona.

Okay. And where I live in Arizona, and it was about three-hour drive to Phoenix, a higher elevation, nice and cool in summer. It's a pretty place that lots of people live. And for 400 bucks and we turn around and sold it to the neighbor across the street for $4,000, literally the next day. Get out of here, really? Yeah.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Okay, so you got your first deal, and now you've kind of combined this wholesaling thing, but now you've got your wholesaling actual land. Right. Right. Now we're actually wholesaling land. But the only difference that when you buy a piece of land for $400, you can actually afford to buy it, own it, and then sell it. Right. Versus traditional wholesaling, I understand, always works such that you never actually buy the property.

You put on a contract and you sell it to somebody else. Right. And so we therefore change the wholesaling process a little bit because, hey, it's $400. I can afford to buy the thing. hold on to it for a couple of days or a week or even a month. I can go on vacation, come back and then sell it. And there's pretty much, there's no mortgage payment that has to make. There's nobody can destroy the property in the meantime.

There's no mold on the property. There's no foundation problem in the property. It's just a piece of land. So owning it is much simpler than owning other piece or other kind of real estate. Right, right. Okay, so, yeah, by going with land, you eliminate a lot of the other ugly stuff that can accompany investing in real estate. So that was 2002.

That wasn't too long ago, and you found this thing for $400. And let me ask you, how did you find the deal? Did you say you or did a mailing? Yes, I did a mailing. And what we focus on is actually a niche, it's been the real estate, which we focus on properties where the owners hasn't paid the property tax. Okay. Because we figured that, first of all, I mean, if you look at, there's already an existing marketplace for properties where the owners don't say the property taxes, which is the tax bead sales and the tax lien sales.

And that's actually where my entry point was. I started studying that and learning about it. And I like the fact, first of all, the fact that people let go of their properties and let them be sold by the government for non-payment of property taxes just blew me away. I mean, why would anyone do that? It was the first question that came up to me. But the fact is, there's tens of thousands, there's not hundreds of thousands of properties around the country, but it happens every single year.

And so, but what I didn't like was, or I mean, I liked it, but what I basically looked at was like, well, I don't want to buy a lien and then foreclose on it three years later, and I don't want to pretend an auction where I have to deal with a lot of competition. Right. So what we basically did is we approached directly the owners of these properties and bought the properties that they would have let go for tax sale anyway directly from them. That's good.

So you got to them before everybody else did. That's right. I like it. There was something that you just, are you still in Arizona? I still live in Arizona. You still in Arizona? Okay. And are you still exercising the same strategy?

Still to the stay, exercising your strategy. Also now, just like you, just teaching their strategies to some students and so on. but I'm an investor foremost, and that's what I do on a daily basis. Very good. Very good. You know, I imagine that back in 2002, it was especially in Arizona, surrounding areas, it was probably pretty easy to sell land. And I'm going to ask you about, you know, once we hit 2007 and everything went kaput,

and all of a sudden it didn't make sense to actually build property anymore. What did that do to your business? Well, that's a good question. Now, the interesting thing is that because we're doing, dealing with properties on the outskirts of town in smaller towns and also somewhat, and to some degree in rural areas, there is actually only a very small percentage of our customers of the people that buy the land from us are actually out to build something right away. Most of them, most of the land we sell is kind of land that people want to hold on to

for another 10 or 20 years because it's kind of in a sense in the path of growth, or because it's just land that they want to go out and camp out and take out the family. So it's larger acres, 20 acres, 40 acres with some trees on them, and a little creek going through it and things like that, where people just want to get away and have their own campgrounds and so on. So those are actually, to a degree, somewhat recession-proof. Not really. Obviously, prices went down after 2007. Prices went dramatically down over land.

but the interest of land was always there, not necessarily from the people wanting to build, but more from the recreational buyer that wanted to buy. And one of the ways we sold the property, the amount of properties we're selling with cell of financing has actually gone up, which is another tweak. We do it. And one of the things that has made us able to just continue selling properties and doing deals with very nice profits is that we now sell virtually all our properties just online. We have a website.

Can I share their name on the here? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Oh, we're going to get to that. We'll get to all of it. I want to get to the nitty-gritty of your strategy. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely.

So the website is Sunnyland.com, and that's just where we sell our land to. And basically, a lot of land is right in the out, right in the outskirts of town, so perhaps a mile away from development, two miles away from development. So nobody's going to develop there right now, but people bought it up because they knew prices later and are going to come back up, so they bought it in the path of growth. So it didn't really affect us too much. Interest was always there. Prices obviously changed.

But when prices go down, you can also buy cheaper. Got it. Got it. Okay. So are you still using the tax delinquencies to find your best deals? Yes. We're still by using that. Interestingly, though, we found that only one third of all the properties that we ever bought had back taxes on them.

So this also works for properties that are not delinquent. Okay. So you just pull up a database of vacant land in the areas that you want to potentially buy and just send offers, send letters? That's exactly right. Got it. How many letters a month do you think you sent? It varies now.

Nowadays, because we have the financial means to do it, we go on what we call buying sprees and selling sprees. So we might go and buy 50 properties and then we turn around and sell those 50 properties and we go buy again. But we're on a buying spree. We might sell about 4 to 5,000 letters a month. And that's enough to get a good 10 to 20 deals a month. Got it.

So 4,000, 10 to 20 deals. Right. Super. The next question I have is about land. What kind of research do you do? Where do you go look to determine whether that's good land to buy or not? How do you know what's in the path of growth? Right.

Well, you look at the city, and if you're going to a new market, Number one, the counties have, or the cities also have, they have long-term development plans in the drawers that you can go get from, from the planning zoning department, from development departments. There are usually different departments have kind of long-term city planning. The city planning department have these plans in there where they say, like, well, in 20 years we plan to be growing in that direction that far. Now, if you get these plans, you can get ahead by 10 or 20 years and go exactly in the way. areas where they're going to go for and then buy land there. Or you just go look at it and perhaps talk to a couple of Rolesford agents in the area if you want to go to that level. So, for example, in Phoenix, Arizona, if I do this year, there's a lot of Native American reservations around the city,

and the city can really only grow in two directions. And if you go into those directions and you buy land there, you know the city is going to be there at some point of time. Now, the question is, When is that going to be? If you're buying 10 miles out, well, it might take another 40 years for the city to get there. If you buy 2 miles out, it might only take another 5 to 10 years. And therefore, the prices are a little different. And in rural areas, it's really more defined by price. So if there's a, if the overall, let's say, a 40-acre parcel is worth $50,000 there,

well, if you can buy it for under 10, you know you have a good deal. That's basically a price-driven thing. Now, that's obviously only the first part of the research. But all research is typically done at the end once you have the property in the contract because the way we do this is we have a provision in our contract that allows us to back out of the deal anytime for pretty much any reason. So we put deals on a contract and areas that we know sell well, and then we dive into the nitty-gritty-gritty of each particular property

and see if there's anything wrong with that particular property. And if there is, then we back out again. That's a big time saver, isn't it? It is a big time save. Yeah, yeah. That's exactly how we teach here. Just get it under contract and do your research later. Right, exactly.

Absolutely, good. So then before you had your website, how would you find buyers for land? What was your process there? Well, we did set our website up fairly early, But because our land is no dollar land, our land typically is under $50,000. A lot of them are $20,000 or even $10,000 lot. We actually go and to the day, we still use that around for a while. We use already existing websites.

So Craigslist is a great website to sell land. Also, eBay is a great website to sell land to. As a matter of fact, people don't think about it that much, but there's an ongoing basis. There's hundreds of parcels on eBay that are being sold. and so you can put your property just on eBay. I sold about 300 parcels on eBay in the last, since the end of 2002.

And, but even nowadays, there's websites out there like landflip, landwatch.com that are great to put your properties on there and the pieces of land out there and sell them. And we sell a lot of properties to land watch, for example. Got it, Landwatch and Landflip, you said? That's right. Very good, awesome. You know, Jack, when we started talking about, We were going to talk about land.

I was expecting to hear some really cool secrets or some new strategies or something like that, but it doesn't matter what kind of real estate you sell. It's really all the same when it comes to finding deals and finding buyers, isn't it? At the end of the day, it's all the same. Now, obviously, if you start talking about entitling land and going and preparing it for building and doing land banking, those things, there are some entirely different strategies in that direction possible. But you know what? I really, I like these things very, very simple.

very, very simple. So therefore, I just focus on getting a deal at the right price and turning around and selling it and passing the deal onto somebody else with a nice profit. So if I buy something that's worth $20,000 and I buy it for $3,000, I'll turn around, sell it for $8,000, or here's one thing that we do quite a bit, and that might be a little bit different strategy. We sell a lot of our land for cell of financing. We allow people to, we do not. qualifying we've allowed them to do low-down monthly payment as well as low-down payments so a 30,000 all piece of land that we might buy for $3,000 will sell for $30,000 with perhaps a $1,000 down payment and a $400 a month monthly payment so with a

down payment and six months worth of payments we got all our money back right and now and now within half a year we get every dime of our money back and now the rest is just profit of $400 a month for the next 10 or $20 That's super. So you figured out how to get cash flow from vacant land? Yes, exactly. That's exactly what I say. We make land cash flow.

I love it. I love it. That's awesome. Let's see. Yeah, no secrets. It's just Craigslist and eBay. You know, I have a friend that went and bought a storage facility. And he thought he got this great deal, which he did, because it was only like 50% occupied.

And he saw this huge upside. and he was able to fill it, you know, with tenants and clients, like, up to 80% in just like four months. And I asked him how he did it, and he just said, I just put it on Craigslist. It's so funny because it sounded like he was such a genius, and all he did was just buy it and put the thing on Craigslist. Right. Now, one of the things we do is, for example, we sell quite a few properties also to the neighbor, because land is a perfect vehicle to sell to the neighbor. Because if there's a house right next door to it, and the neighbor,

is the first person that's going to want to either make sure that no ugly other house comes next to him and restrict his space or in his right as in his backyard, or they want to jump on the chance of doubling their backyard. Of a sudden, they have twice as much space. Or perhaps they want to build a house for their in-laws or a house for their parents or perhaps with a house for the kids. So there's multiple reasons why the neighbors would be interesting in buying the property themselves.

And we sell up to 20% of our properties actually. directly to the neighbor. Yeah, that seems very obvious, right? Right. It is obvious yet very few people think of it. Yeah. You know, the way you've explained this, this sounds like it's so easy and why isn't everybody doing it.

There's got to be some challenges that come along with it. What are some of the big challenges with this strategy? Well, the big challenges people have is that they don't see what, why would somebody buy a piece of property? People have been almost brainwashed, almost taught to stay away from land. land is considered something that is high dollar, risky, and really only feasible for some big-time developer that wants to spend the next 18 months, going through the permitting process and preparing that land, and then spend another few years in millions of dollars building this up and developing it. That's kind of the thing.

When you talked about somebody about land, they're thinking millions of dollars complicated. But the truth is, in a lot of parts of the United States, there's cheap. land available. There's lots of land available. Canada, the same thing. There's acres and millions and billions probably of acres available in the United States that are not worth a lot. And this is in itself like a double-s sort, because on the one hand, this means it's a tremendous opportunity, but the people who want to think why does this not work, you know, the eternal critics, they're going start, they're going to look at that and going to say, well, but this is junk land. Who wants to buy junk land? Now, well, the thing is, it's not junk land. It is just open land in many areas,

or it's just land that is currently not yet used. So it requires a little bit of a different mindset to just understand that there is a substantial amount of people out there that are interested in parking money and land or then wait for the city to approach. Or, to buy land that they can go and get away from it all if the world comes to an end, or just people that just want to have a piece of land, 10 acres in Arizona, 10 acres in California that can go out of the city with a family and just enjoy things. Most people don't think like that. Most people just think, man, land, I've been taught to stay away from it because it doesn't cash flow and is expensive. So it's a lot of it is a perceptionist issue. And perhaps

the earthquake came in as a benefit that I came from another country because I really had no perceptions about real estate. I didn't know anything about real estate, so I didn't know what I shouldn't do. And as a result, I stumbled into land. And, I mean, just to tell you, we made, our network went from $3,500 to $1 million in 18 months of doing it. That's brilliant. That's brilliant. It can go very, very quickly.

And the truth is there's millions of buyers out there that are looking for land. because land is yet another part of the American dream. And so it's just requires, and you can't make land cash flow if it's a cell as well as a cell of financing. So all of a sudden, virtually all the benefits of traditional real estate are available if you just look at it from a different angle. And you've eliminated a lot of the headaches as well. Right, because there's no tenants, there's no tormites, there's no toilets, there's no trash, none of that. But you do have taxes, right? You do have taxes, yes.

You do have taxes, and that's why you do have taxes. You do have taxes, but that's why my preferred way of focusing on it is the flipping part. So I want to, that's why my preferred way of doing this is the flipping part, because flipping is literally what allows you to get rid of the property right away. Now somebody else is responsible for the property taxes. And I only hold on to a certain amount of gem properties. They have just been my own kind of retirement, my secondary retirement plan, basically. And those, yeah, I pay the property taxes, but as I said, those are properties that are directly in the path of growth.

So I estimate those to be worth much, much, much, much more than to be paying property taxes over the next 10 or 20 years. Sure. This is part of your calculation up front, right? Right, exactly. Super. So you can't depreciate land. are there any other sort of tax benefits like you would get with traditional real estate? You can't see that's correct.

You can't depreciate land, but what you can do, you can't appreciate land, but what you can do is when you sell it with sell of financing, interestingly, there's a provision in the tax code that's very, very much hidden, and I don't have actually in the exact point in front of me, But if you sell to self-financing, you are not subject to the IRS dealer status. That means that you get some tax advantages over houses, because if you sell houses and self-financing, a lot of them, the IRS is going to call you a dealer. And when you're a dealer, you have to pay taxes in a much more aggressive way than if you're

not a dealer. And that is not the case in the land area because land is exempt from them. So, yes, there's no direct benefits from depreciation and anything like that. But you still get appreciation if you hold on to it. Sure. And you still get cash flow when you sell it with cell financing. And no matter the number of deals you do, as you sell them or sell a finance, and the financing, you only pay taxes on the cash actually close.

Perfect. Perfect. And because there's not, no one's got, you're not selling a personal residence, then you're not subject to the Dodd-Frank and your limit to seller-financed deals then, are you? That's correct, too. You're not subject to dot-Frank, right? You are excluded from that. Because dot-Frank, as far as I understand, only affect dwellings, which are units from one to four, like residences from one to four units, but not land and not commercial, correct. Got it. Super. Okay, so, wow. What does your operation look like? How many people do you have working for you? I only have three people working for me, plus my wife and me. So we're five total, and basically I have a purchasing manager.

I have a sales manager, and I have one person that helps kind of like in the middle on all kinds of things. And then my wife and I, we're in charge of basically obviously given the direction, selecting the market, making offers, and then and running the other things around it. But my team runs most of it. I really only work probably a couple of days a week on it. That's nice. What do you do the other days of the week? well I do some other things as I said I teach the same technique now I and I we have a six-year-old daughter that we love spending time with that's good that's good is that your your first that's our first and only so far and and she is just a wonderful child and and I just I mean I I mean I'm blessed to be in a situation that that we did all of this we did the majority of

this before she was born so now ever since she's born we can spend extensive time periods with her. Go travel. We love traveling. We go travel usually to Europe for a month of the year, usually to Hawaii for another three or four weeks a year. And this year we're going to Australia and Hawaii. And just love traveling the world. Traveling and family is really my two passion.

That's fantastic. That's what we do it for, though, right? That's what we're doing for, right? There's a question to ask at some point of time is like, when is enough enough? And instead of some, I endowed often, instead of going for the next big business challenge and making yet another, I don't know how much money, I choose to spend the time with a family. And that's actually, I'm happily doing that. That's great. So what do you see for your future?

Where are you headed? Well, we're continuing our land thing. One of the most beautiful parts about the land area is that there's virtually no competition. because as as I just said before, most people are being taught not to go off the land and so that leaves the market up for us

and the few people that we taught this in the past. So it's a wonderful thing. So I continue, I'm planning to continue doing that. Now, I also own rental real estate because I also wrote a book last year called Forever Cash

available on Amazon. And in that book, I pretty much described that that at the end of the day, it's just what you said at the very, very beginning, the switch from making cash to making cash flow. And that's what we did with land, cash flows. Our entire focus, we are cash flow investors just using the vehicle of land to generate long-lasting cash flow from payments.

But we're also taking some of that and rolling it into rental properties. We have a whole bunch of rental properties now, and we're expanding into some commercial properties. The real estate is my game that are going to be for the rest of my life because I just love it. I enjoy it. I enjoy looking at a deal. I enjoy looking at a piece of land. I'm enjoying even though I haven't done that for years, but I enjoy it because we don't,

now we buy our land side unseen. We don't look at them anymore. But I love every aspect of real estate. So I see myself continuing in real estate while having a lot of free time. Fantastic. Well, Jack, this sounds like it's extremely easy. Sounds like it's very lucrative. You have no competition.

I'm sure there's a lot of people that are, you got their wheels turning. So if someone was going to go out and try and do their first land deal, you know, what is the one thing you'd really caution them against or about? Well, as I said, go out there, get the first land deal, put it on the contract. I don't offer, make sure you get it the right price. At the very first time you do a deal, you can get tied up in that, excitement of that deal, and that excitement of that deal can literally make you offer too much for the property. One of the most important pieces of land is that if you want to wholesale it for cash,

then typically you need to buy it at 25 cents of the market value or below. So I do not make offers from more than 25 cents on the dollar. And then when a wholesale it, I might just double the price and sell it at half price. how land sells a little different than houses. In houses, you have all these, there's lending available from the banks and houses. Yes, it's tighter now than it was 10 years ago, but still there's lending available. And so people can get other people's money like a loan on land fairly easily, even if it's a hard money loan. But on land, there is no outside money available.

So banks on land on land, nobody pretty much lends on land. And that's why we do sell a financing because we're the only ones then actually willing and able to do that. But if you're out there for your first deal, you need to buy it right. And everyone says that, but this can land is particularly true. If you buy it at 25 cents on the dollar or below, then you should have no problem selling that thing. And the worst case scenario is that you get your money back and make a little profit. If you have to sell this thing at 40% of market value for it to sell, then you still almost doubled your money. Right.

So this is a pretty good scenario. But the key number one is pricing, and in land you've got to get it really, really cheap. Because wholesale, you've got to find cash buyers, but these cash buyers also want it cheap. Or we sell of financing, and then if you buy it cheap enough, you can also afford to do it to sell a financing so that you get your money back with just a down payment or down payment than a few payments. That's the number one thing, and then obviously as soon as you have the contract, you need to check on things like environmental issues. you need to check on the zoning of it.

Make sure that it is actually buildable, that people can put something on there that is not zone something that doesn't allow for any buildings. Make sure that you check on any kind of like other restrictions like that, for example, there are some areas that have like, they're almost like nature preserves for certain animals live and make sure that your property is not in such a zoning

in such an area because if it is, You can't build on it. They won't give you a building permit. Got it. That's not very often the case, but if it is the case, then all of a sudden, your property's worth much less. So basically the research after you have it on a contract. The contract is prized. The research afterwards is making sure you can do what the thing was the marketable property option.

Super. Okay, so by right, and then check environmental, check zoning. Sounds pretty basic, but if someone wanted to instill a little bit, more confidence in themselves before they pull the trigger. I understand that you now teach this. So if they wanted to learn more about you and what you do, is Sunnyland the best place for them to go? Sunnyland is for them to see properties.

If they want to look at properties that we're selling, just get proof that we're actually doing this, you can go to Sunny Lang, check it out. If you want to learn more about what we do and how to do this, you can go to landprofitgenerator.com, this is landfurtigenerator.com. Or just simply go to Jack Bosch. com.

So that's J-A-C-B-O-S-C-H.com and check things out there. Or you can also get my book, ForeverCash, at ForeverCashbook.net or at Amazon. You can get it there. There's multiple places. If you just put in Jack Bosch, it probably comes up all over the place. Perfect. Perfect. You got a nice, strong presence online.

I like it. A progressive investor. Very good. Okay, so that was awesome, Jack. Thank you for sharing that with us. I'm sure you'll have some people coming over to snoop around to see what you're doing because it does sound very intriguing and enticing. I might even have my own team come over to take a look because we come across land deals now and then and I just, I passed on them too because I believed exactly how most people believe. But it's obviously that you figured it out because there's a saying that's, you know everything because you know nothing.

So you came over here from Germany and, you know, you didn't have the brainwashing that we all have here. Right. I mean, I wouldn't call it brainwashing, but it's, well, yeah, I said that word earlier. So perhaps brainwashing was land. It's certainly conditioning. Yeah, we've got that conditioning. I just didn't know anything because I didn't know anything I just moved forward. And in a sense, it was a blessing, yes. So I know what you're saying and I agree with you, yeah. Perfect. Well, thanks, Jack. Maybe in the future we'll come and do this again, but I know I'll probably see you at our next mastermind group. When's that coming up? July or something like that?

Right. Super. I'll be definitely there. Okay. Looking forward to meeting you face-to-face, Jack. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. You bet.

Have a good day. You do. Bye-bye. All righty. So that's it for today. Another episode of Epic Real Estate Investing in the Books. I'm Matt Terrio, Living the Dream. You've been listening to Epic Real Estate Investing,

the world's foremost authority on separating the facts from the BS in Real Estate investing education. If you enjoyed this show, please take a minute to visit iTunes and share your thoughts. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time here at Epic Real Estate Investing with Matt Terrio. This podcast is a part of the C-suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit c-sweetradio.com.