Epic Real Estate Investing - Lead Generation for Real Estate Investors - Gary Boomershine (Interview) | 644

Episode Date: May 1, 2019

The CEO of REIvault, Gary Boomershine, joined us today to share his expertise on building a lead generation for real estate investors, to tell you how to improve your own leads, and to talk about direct mailing, follow-ups, and other strategies that will get you more deals. Learn what key money-making activity is, how to do marketing if you are on a small budget, and how Gary's million dollar follow-up letter got him the house he really wanted. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Terio Media. Chris Chico, here's a perfect example. Chris Chico, this is years ago, he got a Discover card in the mail for $10,000. And he loves sharing this story. He had $10,000 available on the credit card. And it's like his credit actually wasn't all that great at the time. And so he used all the $10,000 to mail and made $100,000. And by the way, he's made millions of dollars since then.

Right. But he would have never done it if he didn't spend. the money on marketing. Marketing is a return on investment. If you have, you know, most markets, you know, $1,500 to $2,500 in marketing spend on average across the country should result enough leads to convert into a deal if you're talking to the seller. Hey, Matt Terrio here at Epic Grill Estate. Got a really hot show for you today on the thought leader Thursday. We're going to talk about everything that's going on in the world right now around lead generation and what you can do about it and generate more leads for yourself.

So stay tuned. All right. So today I'm joined by a good friend of mine, long time friend and fellow real estate investor. We run a lot in the same circles. And he's got a great service around lead generation. And I just thought, you know, what better person to have on to really dig in. And he's really got his finger on the pulse, I guess, or the thumb of the finger, the thumb or the finger on the pulse of what's going on in lead generation, particularly when it comes

around direct mail and follow up and the technology that's involved. and yeah, we recorded this episode probably a year ago or so, and we did such an amazing interview, and I couldn't wait to share it. And then I lost the Zoom file of the screen full that we did. So we're going to try and recreate that magic, but we're going to go a little bit more deeper. So we're going to talk a little bit more about what you can actually do yourself

and emphasize or improve your only generation, or maybe at the end you just want to have Gary do it all for you. And there's everything in between. All righty. So please help me welcome. the show, Mr. Gary Boomer Shine. Gary, welcome to Epic Real Estate Investing. Oh, man. This is awesome, Matt. I know when I found out that you lost that video, it was like, we went so deep. And so I'm excited to be able to have us do this again. I'll work to deliver some great value

for your loyal followers. Super. So yeah, I mean, it's been a year, and I know a lot of it is going on in your world. So just kind of bringing you up to speed, I guess, give the Cliff Notes version of your background and what you've been doing in the last 12 months. Awesome. Yeah, I'll keep it short on my background. So my name's Gary Boomerstein. I am in California. I'm about 45 minutes from San Francisco. I got labeled as one of the OGs by some of the, as one of the old timers, they call that the original gangster. I just heard that term. You and I were when we were in Tampa with gosh, when I see you, that's the first thing I think of the game. So I've been around. I've been, I've been actually in real estate since 1987. I was a licensed agent. We had a family brokerage kind of, I was one of those

stories where we were kind of forced to get into business. I hated it, actually, but I paid for college by holding open houses, door knocking, cold calling, and finding listings and then fixing up our rental properties. And I hated it. I told my dad I didn't want to have anything to do with real estate. I went and I got a computer engineering degree. So I am kind of a tech geek. And I got picked up by one of the biggest consulting firms, and then I did four high-tech Silicon Valley startups back in the whole dot-com days. And it was great, man, 90-hour work weeks, you know, traveling all over the world, never actually seeing the sunlight because you're working all those hours. And it was finally in 2004, my wife and I, we basically had enough. I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I got excited

about the concept of passive income. And we were going to start buying apartments. So I, unlike, and I recommend against this for everybody, but my wife and I actually, we had a two-month-old daughter, we had a four-year-old daughter, we had a $700,000 mortgage. My wife left her Robert Mendevi brand manager job, and I left a six-figure sales job in the valley to go do real estate, right? But I'll tell you, this has been an incredible journey. So I've been doing it. I currently, I'm in four markets. I'm a lender. I do a ton of private lending, and I do wholesaling, and I pick up some creative deals. I do some partnership deals, and it's awesome.

I think the main thing that's interesting, you know, in this business, all the money is made when you're talking and making offers to sellers. In fact, it's not when you're doing it. Education's great. Masterminds are incredible, but really you're not going to make money

and move the marker and change our life until you're actually making offers and getting those deals. And I recognize that, especially with my background. And so I started a company and was actually around direct mail. And you were there.

It was actually, we were all at the mastermind collective genius. Right. And here were 110 of us, right, talking about Podio, talking about direct mail. We're sharing the right postcard. Chris Chico had the, and Chris Richter had this amazing mailing list. And Joe McCall had Podio, right? Right. And I'm like, guys, everybody's, we're real estate people.

What are we, you know, why don't we just have one team? Let's have one team that we share and get massive leverage. And so I built that. It's called REI Vault. We've done over 30 million pieces of direct mail. I know that we're the largest marketer for real estate in the real estate niche. We actually added an outbound phone team. So we do cold calling and skip tracing for our group.

And the last month I actually just pulled up the numbers. It was 314,000 outbound phone calls. calls and they've got all the metrics. So we know what, we know what works. And I love sharing it for your listeners. I'll kind of provide on what we're seeing in terms of what's working. And if they want to take some practical and tactical capabilities, they can implement themselves off of this, or, you know, join us. And you can actually tap into our group. We have over 250 super experienced real estate investors and agents using our service. And we, We basically, it's like for the cost of one resource of less than $10 an hour,

you can have our team of experts not only do all the marketing for you and direct mail and pulling all the right magical lists, but also the phone work. So they can do all the text messages, the ringless voicemail, and cold calling to schedule appointments. And that's new. Actually, since our last trip, I actually built that this last year. Sounds new. Perfect.

Okay, good. So let's kind of break it down from beginning to end. and then we'll do a demonstration of how all of that stuff that we're going to talk about right now can all be just kind of done for you. This market right now is about finding off-market deals. There's on market, which is typically MLS, bank-owned foreclosures and HUD properties, and that's all but dried up for the most part around the country. So we have to go direct to the seller.

Well, to go direct to the seller, you know, there's some moving parts. And you have to get all of them right, especially. in this market. So a lot of people right now are doing direct mail and they say, oh, the lead suck. The sellers aren't motivated. And it's like, no, you actually, you know, if you drill in, they're missing the phone piece or the text messaging. So there's a funnel and all of these things have to be done. So I'm going to walk through on the left side. This is sort of, this is, every one of these has to be done right, right, really to make the money. And some of these tasks or areas are like $5 to $10 an hour work. And some of the, and some of the, you know, and some of the

them are 100 or a thousand to $10,000 an hour, right? And as a real estate business owner, each of us, all of us on this call on the show today, really should be doing the moneymaking activities, the thousand to $10,000 an hour work, which is negotiating with sellers, making offers, right, negotiating on price and terms, raising money, growing, you know, growing their team, et cetera, and not like licking postcards and talking to a mailhouse and dealing with spreadsheets. And so I'm going to walk through these. And then, I'll show you where REI Vault fits in because we pretty much do all of that for $10 an hour. And I think we do it better.

It's like the perfect unicorn, you know, the unicorn VA, everybody says, oh, if I just hire somebody in the Philippines, well, yeah, you've got to train them, you've got to manage them, you're going to keep them busy. All right. So it starts with marketing. And marketing, there's multiple channels. And right now, and you know this, I know you preach this. This is, in all the masterminds I'm in, everybody that's really making the money,

seven and eight figures, they're doing two things really well, direct mail. So they're sending out effective, not just direct mail, direct response marketing, direct mail marketing, and cold calling. And the reason cold calling is an example, it's like, man, that's old school, but very few people are doing it. And when it's harder to do and get right, and so you got to do marketing, that's direct mail, maybe it's paper click, Facebook, right? Then there's the fulfillment of it. So you've got you got to pick the mailhouse. You've got to find the right mailing list. What I'm hearing from around the country is the two best mailing list, Chris Richter and

ours, R.E.I. Ball. I think, you know, the way we're able to get the data is very difficult for others. And you've got to, you know, you've got to do the weekly drops. So every single week, whether it's a Thursday, and by the way, the best day of the week to mail, what we have found is Thursday. Dropping mail on Thursday is going to get you the highest number of responses. And the reason we found that is that most of the sellers are calling on Tuesday or Wednesday the following week. They're not calling as often on the weekend.

The third is then you've got to have, you can't, when you're receiving the leads, you need a system. And it's actually multiple systems. A lot of us like Podio, it could be investor fuse. You know, there's Freedom Soft. There's a million. Some people have their own homegrown. But it's basically a place to capture the leads. Capturing them in email is ineffective.

You need a phone system like call reel. You need to have a ringless voicemail like a sly broadcast and text messages. We actually like Twilio. Then somebody needs to actually talk to the seller and answer those live calls, right? An inbound phone team. And most of the calls come between 5 and 9 p.m. at night. So that also means somebody has to answer those calls live. That is the people that are doing that are making a lot more money versus taking them to voicemail.

All right. then there's some research before getting on the phone with the seller, typically having some research done, like pulling the property reports and the comparables and knowing what the value and the rent is before you talk to the seller. Somebody needs to have that personal dialogue. Then there's the outbound phone team because a lot of these calls come in, right?

And then there's actually talking to the seller, asking the questions, like how long have they owned the property and how's the condition, is it currently rented, et cetera, with the right script. So all of this stuff has to be done. And then also the follow-up and the key to making money off of marketing is on the follow-up. And typically text messages, ringless voicemails, emails, and direct phone calls at the right time with the right script. And so the problem is usually a lot of people get stuck in the muck.

They're in Quixiam because they're trying to do all this themselves. I found this, and this is exactly why I built RIEI Vault. So we have a team of over 75 people that does all of this. So we can, for the cost, it's like having, it's almost somebody who was it, I think it was Brett Burris that said, might have been Brett or Jamie. It said, it's hiring you guys, you're an extension of our marketing and sales team. Like you guys are that extension. And it's like we hiring a COO and a chief marketing officer,

a chief operating officer and a chief marketing officer to help us out for like $10. an hour to do all this stuff. And so at the end of the day, we're doing the marketing, and then ultimately we're divving up and scheduling appointments. They're pre-screened, motivated, ready to go seller. So, you know, it's like instead of talking to hundreds or thousands of people, why not just be in front of the three or four per day where the sellers want to sell? So that's first and foremost.

The other thing that we have found is the type of the type of, the type of, the type list and I know you know this because you've been in CG one of the things we've found with the mailing list not all lists are equal right the the absentee owner what we're it's really a burned out landler we're finding an absentee owner that has an inherited type of property which means they inherited it from another family member and they've owned it for typically 10 20 30 40 years those are the gem properties we actually found that there were 18 million of those properties in the United States. So that's 10%.

So one out of every 10 houses is absentee owned, in America, by the way, is absentee owned and inherited in high equity, which means they either have no mortgage or a low mortgage. And so those have been incredibly fruitful. And hard to pull. A lot of people, you know, they don't know how to do it. It's expensive, right? It's time consuming, et cetera, et cetera.

And so we've really continued to craft and crack the code. And one of the things that's great, we've got 250 people with us. We've got some people that are doing $1,500 a month in marketing. We've got others that are doing $50,000. We're able to pull all that data, right, the results of what's working. And so it gives us better insight all over the country. So like I talked to Clay Manship. Clay Manship, he did one point, he did $2.3 million.

This is the young guy. He's in his mid-20s. in Indianapolis. He did $2.3 million last year in wholesale flips. And 1.3 million of that came from us. So came from direct mail using our mailing lists. And I think his average was $620 in marketing spend per deal. And now it's starting to go up.

He's getting more competition. And there's definitely competition in the country. Okay, let me ask you to pause for a second. And I can actually vouch for those numbers because I have a few of my own RIAE ACE clients that are also clients of yours, and they've got nothing but good things to say about it. So to hear Clay's numbers, I'm not surprised at all. So I'm going to try and ask the questions I think might be going through my audience's mind. I've answered a lot of these questions myself already, but I just want to get a different perspective

and be totally surprised by the answer. Okay, so let's start at the top. marketing, right? So we talked about lists. And, you know, I know Chris Rector, he's a good friend of mine, a good friend of yours, and that's all he does. He's just very much geeks out on the data and pulls really high quality lists. And kind of his secret sauce is, he explained to me, was he doesn't necessarily go and look for the people that are probably going to sell. He starts with a giant list, which gets very expensive, and then eliminates all the people that probably aren't going to sell, and then you're left with what's left over, right? So that's kind of his

methodology. When you're pulling your list, and which one, do you have like a message or an idea or your message popped up and I said message. How funny. Do you have like a, what's the word I'm looking? Like a philosophy on how you or a strategy on how you pull your lists? Yeah. Yeah, we actually, we're very similar to Richter. We do what's called a scoring algorithm.

And we, you know, most people go to list source or Real Quest and they're doing a search and they're like, clicking a button it says absentee owner and they're putting a last sale date in of like 2008 or before and they're losing all the gems the only way to get the data is is what chris richter does which is going out and getting the big list so when we're building a mailing list for our members we will like indianapolis as an example we're going to go and pull the big list which is probably 250,000 names and addresses. And then all of the data around it. And we'll start scoring it.

So we're looking at like last sale date. If it's blank, that typically means the property has been held for more than 30 years. Those are high value targets. We've seen those are a higher probability. So those are going to get a higher ranking. If we've seen a inheritance deed change, an affidavit of death, there's about six or seven different classifications. We're going to score that higher.

We are going to look at the absentee owner. By the way, there's multiple ways of looking for an absentee owner. There's actually a checkbox and there's also some different addresses. And so we actually score multiple ways. There's information on the area. We'll also look at the cash buyers. So we're looking at the cash buyers of the number of transactions by zip code and ranking them because the ones where there's more cash buyer activity

are going to be a higher probability of good targets for our members. And so we're scoring that, then we'll take the $250,000, and we're usually narrowing it down, and we're picking, it's typically about 18%. So about 18%. So I'm giving all this data.

The problem for most people is, if you go out to a company and you buy a list for $250,000, names and addresses, it's expensive. And since we have a, we're buying, let's see, last month we bought two and a half million records, mailing records

for our members, and we're doing that on a month. So we were able to negotiate massive discounts nationally with these data providers. In fact, I go directly to Core Logic and I'm able to get right into their data center that nobody else in the country can do because you're going to have to spend $20,000 a month

with a guaranteed contract for a year. So that's one of the values of us, like, working together. Sure. You can compound all those, or the costs, or the savings. You can compound the savings. Yeah, I talked to Steve Carlson. He's also a CG guy, also uses Richter's list. I just talked to him last week, and I interviewed him for one of our podcasts, and he said he looked last year, he's in San Antonio, and I asked him, I said, what's your best performing marketing

channel? He said, I looked at last year's numbers, because I made my biggest deals, my most profitable deals came from our, what we call our invisible list. And it was pretty good. We're able to see like the results. I have the ability of seeing, hey, how many, buy the list and the type of postcard, what's the response rate, how many of those are turning into good net leads, what we'd call viable leads, how many are turning into appointments, contracts, and deals closed. And so we're able to adjust and say, okay, you know, I'll give you another perfect example of two postcards. So you've probably heard this one.

It's called the Pink Doodle. And this is, I think Joe Taylor was one of the, I think he may have come up with a multi-million dollar, you know, investor. But the Pink Doodle, it's on peak paper. This has been super popular. Everybody's talking about the Pink Doodle and then the Google Street View postcard. And then on the right hand side, you got,

this was actually a Brad Chandler from Express Homebuyer. And I actually think that, this card came, from Jake, Michael Jake, by the way, because Michael said, hey, you guys are sending this postcard in my market. So, two postcards. Now, the question is, which one performs better? And everybody has been doing this pink doodle. And I'll tell you, the 1031, the one on the left, the ugly little white typewriter, outperforms four to one. So I'm going to get four times the number of calls on this 1031 exchange versus the pink doodle. Oh, by the way, the Google Street View isn't performing at all.

We're seeing very few results. So this is averaging about almost 4% response rate nationally. We've got a lot of markets about 1.6. Google Street views typically around 1%. And so I love it because a lot of people are chasing the wrong, right? Maybe they got the right list. They're using our list or Richter's list, but then they're using the wrong mail piece. and, you know, all this stuff, getting it right makes a big difference.

Well, Gary, like, you see this, like this pink doodle postcard used to crush, right? The street view postcard used to crush when people were first, you know, I mean, I've got a bunch of rental properties. I get these pieces all the time. And so now I get, you know, six street view postcards for each property, and it's the exact same picture, so it doesn't stand out anymore. Yeah. So the other one you have over here, the 1031 Exchange, this is just a new version that looks different than what's everything else that in people's mailbox and everyone after they watch this are probably going to go use this and it's not going to work anymore and there's going to be something else to follow up and it's

going to work right yeah you remember we we were the we were the creator of the third notice that it's called shakanaa and by the way it still performs but when when chris chico designed that and he and i partnered on rai vault and so but then everybody started using it but when we first started using that third notice we were averaging over 12% response rate and now today it's about six, which is still pretty fantastic. Yeah, that still works for us, actually. We usually, we like to send that out first because it gets such a high response rate that it just fills our database and our follow-up system with a bunch of people.

Yeah. But, you know, at the end of the day, here's the reality, you've got to get it out. So many people, so many investors get stuck on the little fairy dust postcard of finding a better postcard or a better list. At the end of the day, no, you know, there's a couple of lists. Go get them and mail. It is a numbers game. And even if you're averaging 1% response rate or even less, I know guys like Justin Colby,

I think he works on a 0.04% response rate in Phoenix and still makes a ton of money. He's a seven-figure investor. You got to get the marketing out, number one. Number two is it's a return on investment. Marketing is always a return on investment. You spend a dollar, plan on making six or plan on making 10. Even if you're making around $4, that's still, if you're a whole, seller that's that that's fine in this market so it's a return you need you need there's two

the number you need to know is what is the cost per deal right and what's my profit per deal cost per deal means hey i'm going to spend two thousand dollars to make 15 000 in wholesale flips that's a 7x 700 percent return right get it out right this the next thing is that you you should you or your sales guys just assume all leads suck all the leads coming in all the leads off of the direct mail are going to suck. And if you have that mentality, you have to talk to these sellers. You have to ask them the right questions, right? It's a human interaction. And so it's funny because I can't tell you how many people in the past I've talked to in, they're like, yeah, my direct mail hasn't been working. And it's like, well, let's talk about

how many sellers have you called. And it's like, okay, what about this seller? What about this seller? And they never call them. It's like, no, you have to, somebody has to have a human interaction. you have to make an offer. 100%. Yeah. People are like, how do you find the deals? How do you find the off-marked deals? Like, well, how many people did you talk to?

Well, I sent out, you know, a hundred yellow letters and no one called. I said, well, that's why you didn't do any deals because you didn't actually talk to anybody. Yeah. The whole, like, there's all these great tricks and gimmicks and gadgets and these fancy postcards and the flavor of the day. But if you're not talking to anybody, it doesn't matter. So I think the one thing that you touched on, consistency is key, right? you've got to be consistent, as you pointed out, a friend of the show, Justin Colby,

with a 0.4%. He's just consistent with it, and that's why it works for him, right? And then also looking at it as, you know, if you're looking for a 4 to 1 return on investment of your ad spend, you still might have to spend $10,000 to get the $40,000, right? But that all just comes through consistency. What is your advice for someone who has a small marketing budget? Spend the money and get it out. If you're, do it on your own. Chris Chico, here's a perfect example.

Chris Chico, this is years ago. He got a Discover card in the mail and for $10,000. And he loves sharing this story. He had $10,000 available on the credit card. And it's like his credit actually wasn't all that great at the time. And so he used all the $10,000 to mail and made $100 grand. And by the way, he's made millions of dollars since then. Right.

But he would have never done it if he didn't spend the money on marketing. Marketing is a return on investment. If you have, you know, most markets, you know, $1,500 to $2,500 in marketing spend, on average, across the country should result enough leads to convert into a deal if you're talking to the seller. And you're working. How much was that, $2,500 a month? You know, $1,500 in the center of the country, $2,500. You know, if you're in California, you're probably at $7,000 or more a deal in marketing.

If you're in Florida, you're probably $2,800. If you're in Dallas right now, it's probably close to four to $4,500 per deal, right? So you spend $4,500 in Dallas, but if you're flipping a property, you're typically making probably 16 to $18,000. It's still a four to one return across the country. So if, you know, get it out, number one, I do think it's important. I come from a sales background, and so there's the discipline, there's the art and the science. I'm going to give the science.

This is time-tested, even Ron LeGrand and Lou Brown and all the old timers. These were the same numbers and Dan Kennedy. Doing direct mail, and frankly, even cold calling, probably even close to pay-per-click, 45 leads, right? 45 leads, typically a lead being a seller calling, right? And you got their information. 45 of those leads, about one-third of them, are going to be viable. or what Sean and a lot of us called net leads, right?

The good ones where the seller didn't hang up and they didn't tell you to be removed from the list or they're not interested. So 45 turns into 15. About half of those should be made offers to. So that gives you about seven. And by the way, over time you should make all offers. But seven of them should get an offer, a written offer,

and one of those out of the seven should close. And that's if you're not even very good at this business, right? And then it's just optimization. I know Justin and I were talking about it. His number is 50. And I think that that because of the competitive market, especially in Phoenix. So if you just plan that, it's like, okay, how much money do I have to spend to get 45 leads? Right?

And so that number is very calculable. You can calculate that. In fact, I have a tool. I'll give it to all of your listeners. They can calculate their own. We call it a scorecard. It'll tell you the exact cost per deal. the number of leads you need, the marketing budget,

and put that in the show notes for you at the very end. Is that cool, Matt? Yeah, 100%. Actually, we built up a web page just for the services that we like and trust like yours. So there'll be just one place they can go to to get it. So we'll talk about that in a minute. Awesome. I'll give everybody the script.

So if you have any questions on what to say to a seller to get a yes, the script of what to say you could actually give this if you don't use rye i vault to do the phone work for you you can give it to somebody else and say follow this this is the same script we use it's uh it's it's incredible in fact a lot of the cg guys actually helped me uh clay manship and and uh and others helped me write the script of what to say you know uh the exact question the icebreaker you know how to and i'll give it to you guys great we'll put that up there then super thank you very much for that. All right. So we've got the list. We've got the mailing piece. Do you do letters at all? We do. Actually, the letters, the best letters, in fact, I will show you one. The best time to use letters is going to be for follow-up.

And here's the example. This is the letter. This is actually the best performing marketing piece. It's been the best piece for over 10 years. This is a follow-up, a million-dollar follow-up letter. In fact, I'm living in a house right now in California. I bought off of this letter. The seller called off a postcard. She said she wanted to be removed from the list. She was concerned on why we were sending mail to her. We actually were sending it every day, by the way,

because we really wanted the house. And so got on the phone, and then we sent her this follow-up letter. And three months later, she called and said, are you still looking to buy the house? And I bought it and was in contract that day. But it's a yellow letter. It goes into, this is really the only,

only time I like yellow letters. But it's got a fake cancellation mark. These things need to look like they were mailed locally, super important. And red ink versus blue, believe it or not, the red ink will twice perform the blue ink. I have no idea why. But it's just it's just a fact. And then it needs to be personalized. And these are great.

We have a lot of our members that sign up. And one of the first things we do is say, hey, give us your old crappy leads. It's all this stuff that you have not been able to close. We'll take those and we'll put them on this follow-up letter and we're turning deals off of it. Nice. So that's a very first thing. We're like, let's take the old crappy lead. So that's typically when we're sending out letters.

We are testing a new offer letter. A lot of us have had pressure from open door, right, and offer pad and Zillow. And so we are working. We have a new marketing piece that is a letter. It actually doesn't even go in an envelope. And it is an offer. And so we're working on the algorithm right now that we can actually put, you know, what's the price so that we can get our foot in the door. And then we're, usually we test it out with 10 or 15 of our top members that are, you know, high volume.

And then we test it out. And once we see it working, then we produce it and pass it to everybody. Yeah, we've used that in two different scenarios that have gotten great results with it. one was um is an offer that uh my my guy josh in Nebraska he sent it sent it out to 175 people that said no to him I think this is the right number and he got 51 deals out of it the offer yeah these were these if the number was a little bit bigger than that how many said no but he just took everybody that ever said no to him that year sent the thing and 51 of them came back signed yeah which I thought was extraordinary numbers I mean it was

It represented half of his production for the whole year. Yeah. The other thing that we do is, you know, we do our own version of factor stacking over here. So we'll take the absentee list and the divorce list and the tax lien list and put them on top of each other. And we give them a little score depending on how many lists they appear on that name. And those that have the highest score, yeah, we put a signed purchase agreement inside of a FedEx envelope. Like, no, we may only have 15, 20 of them. So, right?

but those that have that appear on all those different lists like they got issues they need some cash right yeah yeah the uh do you do anything like with um the lumpy mail or anything like that we did years ago i i've sent out five or six hundred thousand pieces of lumpy mail with the candy in it i mean the garbage can with it crumpled up none of that's relevant anymore uh basically good copy will out produce you know dollar to dollar it's it's not just the responsible sponsor rate. It's the cost, right? It's the cost. And so, you know, like why we like postcards. We like postcards to generate the lead, to generate the first phone call, and then offer packages, text messages, follow-up letters that you never really need to send a seller, a postcard after they've

called. It should always be follow-up letters. You know, you were talking about the offer package. So Kent Clothier and I, you were there at C. Kent was telling me, for, for, uh, I, uh, Kemp basically said he did a test in, he's a massive mailer, right? But he did a test in San Diego and he said, the best thing that ever worked was a FedEx envelope and an offer. He goes, I'd never even talk to these sellers. And he said, you know, we just got really busy and I've never done it again. So I reviewed this with him.

And this is what we came up with. And we've had these, we've been doing this for our members for years. So this is what we call, it's kind of what we call a one-click offer. This is a press of a button. it goes out, but it's a fake. I shouldn't call it a fake. I mean, it's just, it's a, it looks like a FedEx envelope. Right. It's got the label on it. You can, the company is actually in Florida. So if anybody wanted to go do this themselves, you can. These envelopes, you definitely want to use the full size one. We've actually tested the smaller half size to save some money and it doesn't

produce as well. We put an offer letter. It looks like it's handwritten. And again, we do this for our members. You don't have to do anything. Click a button. And this sheet of paper is worth, you know, an offer price, $180,000 for the next 30 days. And we, you know, have some good marketing copy of like the difference between selling to us and selling through somebody else. And then two signed contracts, one page cash offer and a return envelope. So there's a return envelope that we stick in there. And all they do is put a stamp on, stick it in the mail. And that's worked really well for us.

So I, you know, same type of thing. It's like one way or the other, get an offer in the hands of these people. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 100%. Who was, I was just chatting with, who was it yesterday?

Oh, gosh, I've had somebody I talked to, Pat, Hebond. You know him? He runs Go Abundance. I've seen the name. Yeah, Steve, Steve, it was Steve, or Mitch Steven. And we were talking about how a seller wanted, the seller wanted $180,000. and he's like, there's no way that I'm going to offer more than 105. So he sent an offer at 105.

His team wasn't going to do it. He said, send the offer for 105. And sure enough, the offer came back signed, right? The seller was absolutely, there's no way they're going to take less than 180. And they send them an offer, right? So that's the business. This is so good. It's so good.

This is why the emphasis on write offers, right, offers, right offers. And I did a blog post about it was about, it was a business. about eight years ago, nine years ago. And it was how to do more deals. And the whole blog post has said, write more offers. And, you know, and the whole dynamic changes when something isn't actually in writing, right? Yeah. There's a, we have a video for this.

I actually, we have a coach Willie, and I sent this out to so many R.E.I. BALT members, right? This is just classic sales. But they did a study, a dating study on who, guys who could date more women. Okay, true study. And they basically said, okay, we're going to take one guy and give him the perfect script of what to say, like how to schmooze a girl and the perfect words to say and all that. And then they have the second guy.

They gave them the great looking car, the Ferrari and the suit. And then the third guy, they did nothing. They just said, we want you to just ask more women out on a date. And guess who won? The guy didn't ask more. Ask more. This is a numbers game. By the way, this is just classic.

This is a sales business. Right. The money, there's marketing and there's sales. And if you don't know, I mean, there's a sale and everything, like husband and a wife. And if you don't know whether you got sold, you were probably the one that got sold. Right. If you're not selling, you're getting sold. Exactly.

But it is a lot of fun. You know, it's not that hard. This is people, it's more, it's a human business. People buy and sell to people that they like trust and respect. And, you know, it's, I can't tell you how many, I mean, there was a gal, one of my favorite deals. She wanted 750,000 for the house. Kay Boer was her name in California, beautiful house, 750. And I'm like, I mean, on a good day, this thing, I think I sold it for 550.

And she's like, 750. I cannot take less than 750. Well, I went into contract for 410. I creatively. So it took me six months. it was a six-month transaction, but $750 from what they want. So remember, it doesn't matter what the seller wants. You have to make them an offer.

There's a psychological, there's a point in time when these sellers will make the decision to sell, right? And usually if they want a high price, they're just not emotionally ready to detach from the property. It's a big decision for them. Right. Perfect. All right. So we've got the list. We've got the mailing piece and the different ways to send that and the different times to send it.

Now the phone rings. Tell me what happens. Yeah. So the phone rings, we recommend a lot of our members, we recommend somebody take the call live. A lot of our people actually have somebody in their office to take the call live. We'll usually set up any overflow phone work that needs to get done. So 24-7, there's a phone team. We like Pat Live and we like Call Porter. So we've partnered with them. We've cut special discounts for our members. We've given them our script.

So Pat Live isn't just Pat Live. They're actually on our script that's tied into our system. So it's like Pat Live on steroids. And then a lot of these calls, a lot of the work, though, here's, you know that I'm a numbers guy, but this is a national. I didn't make the number up. This is across other industries as well.

But 80% of all the profits in real estate come between the fifth and the 12th interaction with the seller. So most people, they're only talking to the seller once, right? They're taking the call live and they're saying, and they've never talked to them again. And so what we do is we put the, this is called it inside sales team, ISA. If you're looking at the screen here in front of you, it's the outbound phone team. This is the team that's actually doing the callbacks, right, dialing for dollars all day long on leads that have come in already.

And so, you know, a lot of sellers, some of the best leads we've ever seen. or hangups, people that call in and they just hang up for some reason, right? Or they call in and they say they're not interested. Those are goldmine leads, by the way, but you have to wait for four months. So they're not going to be any good for four months. You start calling them. We're converting those like crazy right now for our members. So our phone team, we actually set up a podium system, unless our members have their own.

But those leads automatically get pushed over to an auto dialer that we've set up. We use 5-9. It's all integrated. So our members don't have to, you know, our clients don't have to set up anything. So the leads come in. They get pushed over to the auto-dialer. And then we have got a team of over 25 people that are actually dialing for dollars all day long. Trying to get the seller on the phone.

If they don't answer, they call a few hours later. If they don't answer, they call the next day over and over and over again. Sweet. You can go to buy here, getmore.com. and I'll put up the KPI spreadsheet, Gary is going to give us, and then he's also going to give you the script. And then I would imagine, I wish we had time for the full demo. Do you have a link you can give me to like a video demo of the whole system and play?

You know, the best place would be, we do, and the best place would be at rei vault.com. And I'll give it over to you as well. Okay. Yeah, so it's all in one place. They can just go there, then go to buy here, get more, and then we'll go from there. All righty?

Yeah, perfect. And the one thing I would say, if you are, if you're ready to scale and you want to check out RIEI Vault, just make sure you tell us that you came from Epic or Matt Terrio. We are, we are an invite only group. So it's just, I mean, this is like a mastermind. So we want to make sure we, you know, you're a good fit for us and we're a good fit for you. And so just make sure you tell us that you came from Epic. The reason is is that you get a lot of people, they just, they don't know how to close. deals that they haven't been coached and and so it's really it's the people like our members are referring others to us so just let us know that Matt sent you you bet perfect thank you Gary even we'll do this again though because there's a lot more that we could cover but it's good to see you again and your podcast you got a brand new podcast plug it real quick yeah real estate investor com huddle huddle huddle ddell yeah my company is real estate investor.com so Oh, you sneaky guy. I'm envious of that domain name you got there. Congrats. Couldn't happen to a better guy. All right, Gary, take care.

All right, Matt. See you. You bet. All righty. So that's it for today. I'll see you next week on another episode of Thought Leader Thursday right here on the Epic Real Estate Investing Show. Take care. This podcast is a part of the C-suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit c-sweetradio.com.