Epic Real Estate Investing - The Larry King of Podcasters - Jordan Harbinger | 770

Episode Date: September 9, 2019

Our guest today is Jordan Harbinger, a wall street lawyer, a talk show host, and a communication and social dynamic expert, aka the Larry King of podcasters. Tune in and find out how Jordan decided to become a lawyer and a podcaster, his understanding of quick report building, his experience in work with corporations and military, how his business looks today, and many more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Terrio Media. Success in real estate has nothing to do with shiny objects. It has everything to do with mastering the basics. The three pillars of real estate investing. Attract, convert, exit. Matt Terrio has been helping real estate investors do just that for more than a decade now. If you want to make money in real estate, keep listening. If you want it faster, visit R-E-I-A's.com.

Here's Matt. All right, so our guest today, often referred to as the Larry King of Podcasting, is a Wall Street lawyer turned interview, talk show host, and a communications and social dynamics expert. He has hosted a top 50 iTunes podcast for over 12 years and receives over 6 million downloads per month, making a show one of the most popular podcasts in the world. The show was awarded Apple's best of 2018 and is one of the most downloaded shows of the year.

On his show, he deconstructs the playbooks of the most successful people on Earth and shares their strategies, perspectives, and practical insights with the rest of us. And if you haven't guessed by now, I'm referring to the Jordan Harbinger show. So please help me welcome to our show, the one and only Mr. Jordan Harbinger. Jordan, welcome to Epic Real Estate Investing. Hey, thanks for having me on, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, glad that you made it.

And, you know, we've been talking about this for a few months. We had a mutual friend. I was actually talking to, I was at dinner talking to Todd. And I said, you know, I'm trying to get Jordan Harbinger on the show. I had him on the show once before and I wanted to reach out to him again. And what is he up to? And he goes, he's staying at my house right now, dude. I was like, what a weird conversation.

That's really funny. Yeah. So glad you made it. You know, I noticed, and I actually didn't know this about you until just now when I was reading about the reading your bio. What was the original attraction attraction to becoming a lawyer and what inspired the move to lead that profession? So I originally never wanted to become a lawyer just to be damn clear with everyone. I think a lot of people who go to law school, they're not actually interested in becoming an attorney. I went there because I graduated from the undergrad college, what is it called, literature science and the arts,

you know, standard undergrad at the University of Michigan. And I was like, oh, okay, so what do I do now? Like, how do I get a job? I mean, some of my friends had jobs waiting for them, but they were the kids who went to, like, business school, and they were going to be, like, a spreadsheet ninja at AOL, right? You know, nothing super exciting. And I was like, oh, okay, well, I'll start there, too, if I can.

So I applied to a bunch of different places, and, like, they're like, we want somebody who's, you know, between 25 and 30 years old with 15 years of experience, you know, and you're like, wait, what? Okay. Not really, of course, you know, but they're, They were saying, we want somebody with a decade of experience that's, you know, young. And I'm just like, you can't really get both of those things. So I really didn't understand how to get a job.

And I was like, hey, career counselor, what do I do to get a job? And they're like, apply, you know, walk in, hand out resumes and come to our resume workshop. And I was like, great. So I'd go to the resume workshop and do it. And that's sort of when I realized the jig is up on undergrad. This is 2003. this is well before it was known that undergrad is kind of like, I won't say scam,

but like they really have no plan to get you a job at all. And not that it's their job, I should rephrase that. It's not their job to get me a job. They have no plan for you to get a job at all. Their strategy is pray that you know somebody or that there's a really kick-ass market. And colleges will do things like, oh, 87% of our graduates have jobs. You know how many people who didn't get jobs are now working in the, employment or the admissions office of that university so that they can pad that statistic.

It's insane. Really? So I went to law school because I was trying to get a job at Best Buy and they're like, you're hired. I'm like, great, I can build computers. I can solder. I can weld. I can do customer service.

I can do anything with software or hardware. And they're like, yeah, we need you to sell CDs for two years. And I'm like with Matt's brother, who's 17, I'm not going to work with him. I have a four year degree and speak four languages. And they're like, yeah, everyone starts. in music. And I was just like, this is a fricking waste of life, literally. So I went to law school,

and it wasn't just any law school. Like, I got into the University of Michigan law school, which actually is one of the top 10, at the time, was one of the top 10 schools in the country. And I don't say that to be like, I am so very smart. I'm saying that because I couldn't get a job, and yet, you know, they wanted me selling CDs and yet I was

qualified to go to that school. So I knew something was wrong, and I crushed it in law school. Like, I graduated in the top, I think third of the class. I got a job on Wall Street that was really competitive. You know, it was a good market to be fair. But like, I got a killer job. I was making more my first year out of school than my parents made combined at the peak of their career. So that was awesome. But again, no amount of money, as many of you, dear listeners have learned, no amount of money can substitute for, no amount of money is going to make you like a job you're not

interested in, really. So that was what happened. And being a lawyer is not all bad. Being a financial attorney on Wall Street is not what you think of when you even think of being a lawyer. You know, it's not even close. I think of TV shows. I think of movies.

I think of glamour and glitz. Is Wall Street like that? Oh, yeah. Every day I walk in, the paparazzi's waiting for me. No, it's like you walk in and they're going, so we don't have a whole lot for you today. What we do have, oh, I know what you can do. Go to this investment bank. and make like 30 copies of each of these documents

and they're all going to be in folders and then when you make the copies, then sit down and check off the boxes on this master spreadsheet and then report to me and yeah, I just come back when you're done. And then like two days later, not even kidding,

because you're sitting there the whole time, you walk into this room, people are like sleeping, you know, I'm like, how long has everyone been here? There's 30 people making copies of those. You have to wait till they're done

so there's a line And I went to work on Wednesday, came back on a Friday. And all I did that whole time was make copies. I was like, this is so shitty. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on your show. This is so bad, right? So that's not what every lawyer does. Of course, I was a first or second year associate.

You're an overpaid secretary. Secretaries are much more valuable than I was because they have actual skills. I didn't. So that was what I was going for. And I was like, do I want to master this? and the answer was at the top of this food chain, at the top of this mountain, what is there for me? And I started talking with the partners,

and they were pretty blunt and open, and some of them were like, I wouldn't say I love my job, no. And I was like, wow, you've been here for 20 years. Dang. And they were, I noticed none of them, there were a few people who talked about work in the office and outside the office,

and I was jealous of them because they were so passionate about the legal stuff. Most of them were like, yeah, I'm going to Italy. I love photography. I'm taking a photography class. Got to leave really good to photography, doing photography, getting a new camera. And I was like, you like photography. You don't give a crap about this. And so for me, I had already started my podcast and I was like, I like this. So am I going to talk about having a podcast for 20 years?

Or am I just going to make a go of this and learn from these guys? And that's what happened. I made a go of it. And here we are. So those two things overlapped for a minute. Oh, yeah, yeah. I started the podcast before I became a lawyer. Oh, I didn't know this.

Okay. Oh, yeah. I started the podcast in law school. The original one? Yeah, but the Jordan Harbinger show. It's funny because I started the Jordan Harbinger show really early, and then I melded it into that old show, and now I'm back doing the Jordan Harbinger show,

and I'm like, wow, it's like I never left, only I gained, you know, 12 years of skills. Right. Okay, so the old show. Yeah. The subject matter. I had noticed it for a long time. I'd noticed how popular it was,

but I didn't listen to it, because I had heard or I kind of assessed what it was about. But then when I actually listened to it, I don't think I ever listened. I listened to multiple episodes way back then, but I don't think I ever heard an episode other than your commercials kind of mention how to develop this charm. It was a really good show.

I loved it. I thought you had great guests and you're a great interviewer, great host. Where does one develop at such a young age, the ability or the skill set to teach socially deficient men to interact with women. Yeah, so that was sort of my first gig, right? Was teaching people how to meet and interact with the opposite sex. However, before that, the reason I got into that was because I was teaching networking to other

lawyers. Because when I was in, on Wall Street, I was like, man, I can't make myself smarter and everyone here is smart. And I was like, man, I can't work any harder because I'm already working like seven days a week, six days a week, you know, 10, 12 hours a day. I really can't sort of like outwork all these other smart people. I don't have a competitive advantage. And so one of the partners who was never in the office, I thought if I learn how to work from

home, they won't know to fire me. You know, classic imposter syndrome. So I talked to one of the partners and I was like, hey, how come you're never in the office? I assume you're working from home. And he was like, no, I actually am. Well, I work from home, but I'm mostly out generating business for the firm. And I was like, wait, explain this totally foreign concept to me.

Right? So he's like, I do jujitsu, I play a little bit of golf, I go to the racquetball club, I think it was a squash club, whatever. I jog, I bike, whatever this guy was doing. And I was like, how does that generate business? And he's like, well, it's like networking. And I'm thinking, wait, the networking I know is show up at some awkward mixer, eat a stale cookie, hand out your business cards, and then like sit at home waiting for these people

who just threw your business card in the trash to call you. So it doesn't work. And he's like, that's not networking. You know, I didn't say it like that, but I kind of expressed that I didn't know what he was talking about. He's like, no, no, no. Networking is making a bunch of friends, man, so that when they have something to throw out to the world, you know, they're the first person they think of, like all these investment bankers and all these guys I went to Brooklyn law with or whatever, they throw me their deals and I throw them a good deal on the bill. And I was like, wait, that's networking.

I can do that. So I figured, I'm not great at that now, but I can figure that out. So I started taking classes from like Dale Carnegie on networking and all this stuff. and the Learning Annex. And I realized after my, you know, fifth hour in a room with a dude in a sweater vest at the YMCA that a guy working at the Learning Annex probably isn't going to be the guy who's going to teach me how to get a million dollar law deal every quarter for my firm. Because the advice, and no hate on Dale Carnegie, great people, great organization. But look, look them in the eye and have a firm handshake.

Let me be honest, Matt. If I look you in the eye and have a firm handshake and you think I'm a tool, Are you going to give me a million dollar law deal? No, if somebody's not giving you a million dollar deal or a job or a raise, it's probably not the handshake, it's probably not the eye contact. It's because they don't know like and trust you. Right. You know, or they just think you're a weirdo.

And those are all problematic issues for a lawyer who's trying to get a bunch of business for the firm. So I quickly learned like, okay, not going to pick anything up from Mr. Argyle socks over here. I got to do this myself. So I started reading books on things that are seemingly unreasonably. related, like nonverbal communication, mating strategies of animals, all this stuff. And I went through the typical, like, proto pickup artist BS stages where I was like, got to be alpha, bro, which by the way is like junk science. And went through that. And then I realized, oh, you know, a lot of this is actually me working on myself. So I don't really have to work too hard at like networking tricks. I need to be

likable. Okay, let's work on that for four years. Okay, work on developing trust. being true to your word, being a good person, introducing other people to each other, generating value for your network, creating relationships that are win-win, creating relationships that are not win-win, but are a win for them, maybe less so for me, but result in wins over time, that kind of stuff. And it was, I woke up one day and I was like, hey, in my quest, in my somewhat pathetic quest for the approval of the opposite sex, I turned into a nice person instead of a bitter person.

Why did that happen to me in a positive way? and a lot of these other dating guys that happened in a negative way. And that led to the split with my old show, because I was like, here are these two sort of like damaged guys that I work with in a company that I don't really like anymore. And I turned out well and I'm happily married and I have a kid and like these other people are like going out six nights a week and drinking.

Like, what's the deal? So I realized, aha, it's a self-improvement journey. And you can choose to take it or you can choose to be like, I've got an awesome trick I'm going to do when I lie to people and they like me for five minutes. and I'm like, this is really a sales process as well.

So people who are really good, you know, going into like real estate, for example, I've gone to some pretty awesome sales trainings where I teach, I teach either special forces, intelligence agencies, sales teams, things like that now. And I'll meet these realtors and real estate agents that sell things like $28 million pieces of Hawaiian property, you know, like baller, baller real estate. folks that I'm sure you've come and rubbed elbows with. And they're all super nice, outgoing, friendly, not that they're not introverts, but they know how to be like, hey, Jordan, what can I do to help you? They're never like, here's my card when you want to buy a house

in Hawaii. They're always value giving. And so I train those types of skill sets. And I realize what intelligence agents, really good special forces, really good salespeople, really good business folks have in common, they all have awesome networking skill sets. And that's what I'm teaching now somewhat on the Jordan Harbinger show, but also, you know, doing the training that I do outside the show. Mm-hmm. Super. Thanks for sharing that because he actually tested on my next two questions. That happens. Yeah. You might have, you might have somewhat answered them, but I just want to get a little bit more clarity. So that's the audience, they're real estate investors. I would imagine and there's one or two out there that have due $28 million Hawaii deals.

But most of them are out, you know, dealing directly with a seller, typically a seller that's in distress and helping them out of their situation and getting equity in exchange is kind of how the transaction goes. So two sides to this. There's the new investor that's going into this distressed situation. They're a little nervous about talking to the seller. And then there's the seller who has got their guard up thinking that this person is going to come in and steal their house type thing.

So rapport is a big portion of the success of coming to an agreement inside of a purchase contract. So could you give me like two or three cool little things that they could, that are really practical that they could use on quick rapport building, even though that's not doing what you just touched on. You just explain something opposite. Oh, I mean, look, rapport that's strong happens over time, but there's still quick rapport building. You know, for example, I'll come up with a real world example,

and then I'll try to apply it to your situation, right? So what essentially I will do, I had an interview yesterday with Kobe Bryant, who's a basketball player for those of you who are not familiar. I think most people know who he is, maybe some people don't. I'm not an NBA guy, so like I've still heard of them,

but I'm sure there's some people that haven't. My mom had no clue, for example. And I'm like, okay, scenario. I'm going in knowing the content, text, just like your investors. This person who's thinking they're going to lose their house, Kobe Bryant's not worried about that. What he's coming in and doing is going, all right, he's probably got a media day.

Maybe he's got two media days for his new book or his new project. Knowing Kobe Bryant, he's been up since 5 o'clock in the morning doing East Coast media. Now he's doing West Coast media because it's 9 a.m. Right? And I'm like, all right, how do I stand out? Get him to give me more time. get him to engage in an energetic way

because he's probably trying to conserve his energy, he's probably super bored. So I come in and I call it explaining the game or calling out the Matrix. And so what this is, I sat down and I go, hey man, it's really good to meet you. I bet you are really sick of doing media and interviews.

And my goal is to make this something that you actually enjoy if that's even possible. And I'm sort of chuckling. And he goes, oh man, yeah, you know, it's funny. should say that because I noticed there is definitely a difference in interview skills and there's definitely a difference in what I come across doing media as long as I have. And I was like, for sure. And then I came with this in my back pocket. And I was like, this person, this person and this person

also said to say hello. And then this other person that you know said to say this thing in Italian that I read to him. And he was like, oh, man, we got mutual friends? Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, right on. Tell so and so on, so this, that. And the other thing. Right. Not typically a good use of five minutes of interview time and a scarce interview where I've got like 45 minutes. But obviously what happened after that was he was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't go on autopilot because he knows Mike. He knows Norm. He knows David. He knows so and so like all these other folks that I found through my research. And then that way there's a level of trust built. There's also a level of accountability. So for your sellers, for your investors going to these sellers,

it might be like, hey, you know, it's funny that I'm in this neighborhood because my cousin grew up right around the corner and we used to go play at the playground at such and such elementary school and they'll be like, yeah, my kids, they go there now. And oh, wow, well, I want to help you stay in your house so that you don't have to take your kids out of that school. Like that might be kind of a far-fetched or convenient example, but that's what that person's worried about, man. They're worried, like you said, about this investor coming and taking their house. So to have them say, oh, the elementary school down there, I've been to the jungle gym where you've also been with your own kids, and we're going to make sure you get to stay there. Not, hi, all right, so here's my deal.

I'm going to give you $25,000 up front at 4% over time, and they're just like, oh, God, okay, I guess so. Please don't screw me over, right? You're generating rapport. It happens relatively quickly. Now, it ideally happens even before you meet up. Like, how your clients get leads, I don't know, but if they're getting leads through a referral,

you want to find out how they know the person that referred. And I've noticed a lot of people don't do this when they're generating leads or they're doing referrals. They'll be like, oh, yeah, I got your name from Matt. Thanks to Matt for doing that. Anyway, I heard you need equity or need some cash for your house because you're having trouble paying the mortgage. It's like, well, wait a minute.

How do you know Matt? Actually, I really don't, but he knows my friend, Karen. Oh, okay, cool. Well, I'll have to ask him about that. This is done before you meet up. Then I call you and I go, hey, thanks for that referral. He says that you know someone named Karen and you go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're in a cycling group together.

We trained for an endurance event. And I go, oh, okay, how do you think he knows Karen? Oh, I don't know. And then I might text him back and go, do you know Karen from Iron Man stuff? Yeah, yeah, I love doing that. Good. Now I know that you've got mutual friends. I know some of your interests.

I don't just go, oh, yeah, you know Matt, this guy whose name he's heard once through Karen, who he's bicycled with. Like that's not a good connection. But now knowing that he trains for Ironman, now I'm going, oh, you know, I don't train Ironman, but I went to Hawaii and I saw him do it. It's amazing. You know, you get them talking about something they're interested in. Maybe they can forget about the fact they're about to lose their house for five minutes.

Now they like you. You're interesting to them because you're interested in what they like and in them as a person. And this isn't manipulative. Like this is straight up you actually taking an interest in what they're doing. Don't try to fake it. Ideally, you find something that you are interested in because it'll be a hell of a lot easier, unless you're a sociopath, in which case you're probably an awesome investor. You don't need any advice from me.

You're detached emotionally. Right. No, it's perfect. It's very much in alignment with a lot of my recommendations is, you know, to be interesting, it's best to first be interested. And, you know, listen until it hurts. Listen as you are going to be tested on it. Listen as if you really care, right?

Yeah. Yeah, and honestly, if you can actually care, you are so much better off if you can care. So, you know, I've done millions of dollars in sales for training products and things like that over the years of myself. I don't sell anything now other than the corporations in the military. But in the past, I sold tons of training programs. And I would spend the first 20 minutes usually just chit chatting with somebody about something. And it wasn't like, oh, is it hot down there? Oh, yeah, that heat, man, it's like a dry heat and you got to drink.

No, I was more like, hey, I noticed your email address is crazy swimmer guy, 71. Are you, I mean, do you swim a lot? Oh, well, I used to, you know, I actually qualified for the Olympics. Oh, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, I went to the Olympics once, but I didn't get to, you know, participate. Oh, which Olympics? Tokyo. Oh, I was in Tokyo a few years back.

The place is crazy. Yeah, well, when I went in the 70s and now you're going through this story and then 20 minutes in they go, you know what, I'm so sorry. I got carried away. I know we're talking about something else. You take it away. And I go, you know, actually, that was super interesting. How do you think my sale goes after that?

They're like, man, talking with you is like talking to an old friend. That is an easy sale because now I'm just talking about logistics and payment plans. I'm not going, well, you need this. And if you don't do it, you're going to fail at life. They're just like, no, I like hanging out with you. You seem like a guy who's not going to screw me over. Where do I sign? Shut up and take my money.

You know, that happens more often than not. And that's important for salespeople to remember because a lot of, and you don't have to be selling a house. I just mean selling yourself, selling your idea. Sure. You can do the legwork trying to be persuasive and handle objections and like preemptively strike against, oh, well, if I say this, they're going to say that and they're going to have a price objection. Then I'm going to have a payment plan on offer and I'm going to snipe this out from one of them. You don't even have to worry about a lot of that tricky, smooth talking stuff.

if you actually build rapport first because they're going to go, you know, Jordan, the problem is I don't really have 18,000 in cash. And I go, oh, well, would it be easier for you to pay over time? Well, yeah, I mean, it just depends on what you can work out because here's the thing. Then they tell you the real reason, not just, wow, that's expensive. They go, look, the problem is I just sent my kid to college. I am running thin. And I go, well, what can you actually do?

And they go, well, I could probably do this and I could probably do that. plus X if you give me like three months. And now I'm going, all right, so smaller than usual payment plan and then we'll ramp it up over time. But if you just try to handle their objection, you're going to end up with either no sale or smaller than you would like payment plan forever because you don't know the real reason. They didn't tell you because they don't trust you. So now you're just going, ugh, I'm getting 500 a month. It's going to take them three years to pay this off. Instead, since I know the real reason and I know when those tuition checks are due, I'm going with less that I want for three months,

and then he's going to double it after that because he likes me and doesn't want to disappoint me. This is what it's like to do business with people that you know like and trust. And for anyone who thinks that's manipulative, I would strongly recommend actually befriending and starting to know like and trust the people you're dealing with, not just have them know like and trust you,

because this is when here's a difference between somebody no like and trusting you or just making the sale and having it go both ways. I, one time, not one time, many times, I've had people go, oh, you know what, my card doesn't work, or usually, let's be honest, you try to run the bank draft of the payment and it doesn't work, you reach out and you're like, huh, I haven't heard from them.

That's weird, their card bounced and they're not responding to emails. I used to run emails and then get threatening more and more and more threatening and then be like, if you don't do this, I'm going to send it to collections and da-da-da-da, and then my response rate was pretty minimal. So what I started doing was the second time the email went and said, hey, your payment didn't work. I would pick up the phone like a human and go, hey, Matt, so this is awkward.

I know you're super busy. Your card didn't work. Did you get a new card? Oh, well, no, I mean, yes, but no. What happened was, you know, I was an idiot and I got a, you know, car accident. And then, you know, I can't pay. So then you find out the real reason you go, oh, well, okay, no problem. much time do you need to like get back on your feet? Why don't I just waive the payments until then?

Don't worry about it. Don't stress. No interest or whatever you guys can do. And then why don't we just run it again on this date? Do you have a new card? No, the old car to work on that date. Okay, cool. You're getting in touch with them. They could be defaulting on every bill that they have, but they will pay you because they told you that they would and you were flexible. These are people that I have, and I know this because they've told me as much. They're like, I literally have only paid cell phone bill and this. Like I haven't paid my cable bill. I'm late with my tuition for this. I'm, you know, I've banked draft fees, but I told you I was going to do this and I like you and you were really cool about this. So here's your money. I've had that happen a lot. I've had

people borrow money from family and friends to take care of our arrangement when they couldn't do other things. And that's because we had a real relationship. It's not just them feeling indebted to me. It's me working around their problems as if they're not just a number on a spreadsheet because they're not. Right. Good stuff there, Jordan. Lots of takeaways there. I've got a list of questions here, but what we're talking about is much more interesting,

so we probably won't get to them. But this all makes sense as you deal with the corporations. How does this relate in what you do and how does it go with the military? Right. So with the military and with... Special forces specifically, I guess, right? And special forces, yeah. So what they want to learn typically without getting two in the weeds,

on stuff that either is something they'd rather not share and frankly is going to seem less applicable to this audience anyway. What they want to learn are things like how to create strategic relationships with people that don't seem fake. So for example, Green Berets, military or Army Special Forces, we typically like outsiders, you know, we say civis, we call them Green Berets, but it's Army Special Forces. They're on the ground for like three, four plus years in FAAs. We typically, Afghanistan. You know, Navy SEALs, they parachute in, blow something up and leave. Green berets are kind of like hanging out with the local Pashto village elders and being like, hey, we need to get some intel, we need to share some stuff. Hey, how about, you know, this area is dangerous.

Can you help us with this problem we're having? So they have language skills. They're generating rapport. What we teach them are strategic relationship building techniques that really do help. They're a long term. And I see this in other special forces units as well where they will, for example, Secret Service, they're not special forces, but it's similar niche. Secret Service guys, they might walk into a fancy hotel and go, I need this whole floor cordoned off and we need to move the existing guests because we've got such, you know, Vice President Pence. And the hotel's like, all right, well, we'll do what we can because you're a big deal and da-da-da-da. Well, when those guys transitioned to civilian executive protection and they're protecting, I don't know, Mark Zuckerberg

or whatever, they walk into a hotel and they go, hey, I need the top, floor cordoned off and we need to move the restaurant and the manager goes, no, who the F do you think you are? Oh, well, you know, our client is an important guy. Oh, really? Who is it? Well, I can't tell you. It's operational security. Okay, well, guess how much I give a crap right now, right? You know, but if you are keeping in touch of those people for a long period of time, you're sending them texts during times in their time zone, generating rapport with them. Hey, you had a new kid, show the manager of the Mandarin Oriental in Kuala Lumpur, a picture of your kid

and say, doesn't he kind of look like you? He looks like an old Asian guy, you know, get a laugh out of the manager of that hotel. I just had a kid six weeks ago. He looks like an old Chinese man because all newborns kind of do. And so I've been sending that to, you know, a lot of my friends and especially my friends

who are Asian mixed and they're dying because they're like, yeah, you're a kid and everyone else, Jordan. You know, it's a really easy way to gain and build and maintain rapport over time. So if you are flying in to a place and you don't know when you're going to get there and you show up and they haven't seen you in a year and you go, I need this, this, this and this and I used to know the manager, they're going to be like, great. But if you fly in and I'm texting them the night before, hey, guess what? I'm flying in right now. And the last time they heard from me was three months ago and I was joking around with them. They're going to be like, great, can't wait to see you. Do you still need the top floor cordoned off? Because if so, I can start moving people over now. and, you know, the secret service agent or the former secret service executive protection will say, yeah, and honestly, this one's a little sensitive. Can we come in the back because we had some issues last time coming in the front and they go, yeah, let me have the guys move the dumpsters out of the way because they're blocking the access right now. And let me know when you get here, call my cell phone, I'll get up at night, drive over there and make sure the staff is ready to help you. This is what I'm hearing from these guys and gals, because this is what. somebody does to go the extra mile for you when it's not just a paycheck.

You know, a nice luxury hotel, they're going to jump over sideways to help somebody who's got high profile clients and drops a lot of money into it. But they're going to go an extra 10 to 15% in trying to anticipate what you want if they like you as well. And so that's what we're teaching. We're teaching that, but we're making it scalable and we're working around their limitations. So, you know, if I know I'm going to see you at your conference in December, I can start generating and building rapport with the speakers in December. But if I never know where I'm going to be until two days before, because my client is Frickin Mark Zuckerberg and he doesn't know where he's got to go, but all we know is it's

important and requires 18 full-time security personnel, well, I've got to be able to think on my feet and I've got to be able to generate rapport in a very short amount of time or be calling upon what our strategy is, be calling upon a network that's constantly being maintained by me as an agent in a way that is scalable and doesn't require me to be on the phone all the time because, you know, I can't be chit-chatting on the phone 24-7 if I've got a job to do. However, executive protection, those guys are sitting in cars a lot. They're sitting in cafes, a lot. They're killing time at meetings, a lot. You can manage thousands of relationships using texting, email, little videos, things like that over time if you've got an hour a day. Imagine what you can do

with five hours a day. You know, you can manage thousands of relationships that way. Makes sense. You know, it took us almost three or four months to actually coordinate our schedules to make this happen and be able to talk to you and thank you for making time for us. For sure. What does your normal business look like today? Like, what is it that has you so busy? Is this, are you out in the field like training this forces? Is this virtual thing? Are you in corporations and boardroom? I am. Yeah, so I'm in the boardroom. I'm training. Depends out in the field. I'm not like riding shotgun with people at Facebook, you know, while they're doing their job. That'd be a little dangerous.

But yeah, I mean, I'm going to government offices or non-government offices, going to different corporations and training there. But I think the main thing for us was, you know, I do three interviews for the Jordan Harbinger show every week. Two are interviews, I should say, and one is an advice on Friday. And that's every week. So I've got eight guests. And these are guys like, like I mentioned before, Kobe Bryant's, you know, Frank. I think Abagnale from Catch Me if you can, Howie Mandel, Chelsea Handler.

So like these are people that are hard to nail down. So often my schedule is run around, fly around, do something. And I had a kid six weeks ago. So part of that was I want to take a month and not be on the phone or on Skype the whole dang time, you know, or like traveling around the whole darn time. So that was part of it. Usually I can get something in within a month or two. But yeah, this one took extra long because of the timing of my,

because of my reproductive schedule. What do you like most about what you do? I love the interesting conversation. So, I mean, the majority of my job is going to be researching and reading. So, you know, a lot of what I did today and yesterday was research this amazing rock climber and read his book and watch his movie on Netflix and then meet him today and have a conversation and ask a bunch of stuff that I wondered during that time. for an hour. And that's pretty much it. That's the majority of my job is research,

guest booking, and having amazing conversations. So that's pretty cool. You know, like, for somebody likes to talk and listen a lot, I do a whole lot of talking and a whole lot of listening, you know, and I work with my wife. I've got some amazing best friends that also work with me full and part time. And then I kind of do most of my shows at home in my underwear and or in person, usually with pants on. And that's pretty much it. And a lot of what I do takes me to cool exotic locations.

You know, like maybe I go to Moscow to interview Edward Snowden. You know, maybe I go to Venezuela to interview the incoming president, not the dictator, the other guy. You know, like that kind of stuff is firmly within my purview. And just being a lawyer, you know,

you don't get much fan mail. You don't do a whole lot of traveling where you see the outside of a conference room or a hotel. So for me, I have a lot, of a lot of what I do is like in the zone of, I hate using terms like this, but it's like in the zone of joy, right?

I love reading, I read a lot. I love walking outside. I do mostly audio books and walk outside. I love having conversations with interesting people. That's literally the main part of my job. I like traveling so I can upend a trip. You know, if I'm gonna go to Vegas to interview somebody like John, I'm having a brain fart, the guy from Bar Rescue,

John Taffer, you know, like, I can go to Vegas and stay for three days and interview John, well, actually, let me be honest. You got to do the interview first, because if you go to Vegas for three days and you try to do an interview after that, you're in trouble. So I go to Vegas, you know, interview John Taffer and stay for a few days, go see some shows. Like, that's, that's what I love about it. Flexibility and the prosperity thing came later. You know, like, I know it's probably the same with you. People start investing because they're like, I want to make a ton of money. But sometimes you don't get to do that right away. And for me, podcasting never started as a business. It started as a way to not get fired from my law firm. It then

morphed into a way to sell training programs. And now the Jordan Harbinger show is big enough where I don't have to shill much of anything. I have ads for products I believe in that aren't mine. I'm going to have ads for courses that I believe in that are mine. I talk with amazing people and I make plenty of money doing it. You know, 13 years to an overnight success. right it's obvious now what i i think uh what makes your show so popular um but i mean it wasn't always like that there was a beginning 13 years ago um what do you think was it about it that had such a about your show that had such a broad appeal you know what it was it started as a cult following um in a long time ago you know that that's really what it was uh it started as

Wow, these are the only guys talking about body language, nonverbal communication, persuasion, and influence. Now there's plenty of books on that. There's plenty of, oh, there's probably some podcasts on that, but there wasn't anything when we started. And also, what we were talking about, a lot of people found embarrassing, like, oh, I'm shy, I'm introverted, how am I going to do this? So a lot of it was relegated to discussion forums and things like that and people posting anonymously. So to have a podcast where there were two guys talking about this stuff, and eventually one guy, me, talking about this stuff very candidly in a way where I was very open about all of my shortcomings and failures

instead of doing, you know what, measuring with everybody else. Like, here's all this cool stuff I did. I was mostly like, here's all these mistakes I made this week, and here's how I plan to solve them. And then having discussions with smart and interesting people and not being like, I mean, you've seen this probably in your niche in an adjacent niches. a lot of the guys, especially guys, guys and gals, but especially guys doing this now,

there's this whole internet marketing scene where everybody's like, I'm rich and I have a boat and I have a house. And if you want to be cool, here's me in front of a Lambo. You got to buy my mentorship program. It's like gag. You know, I wasn't doing any of that. I was going, man, I walk everywhere because I don't have a car. And I just started a job and I'm probably going to get fired because I don't know what the hell I'm doing. And I'm feeling really insecure about that. And that's rubbing off on my dating life and it's showing up in my posture. Here's a psychologist talking about how what we're thinking in our level of self-confidence is reflected in our nonverbal communication. Take it away. So it was kind of this, and this is all

2020 hindsight, but it was kind of this refreshing breath of fresh air from most people because I wasn't selling to them by being like, look at how awesome I am. You can be like me. It was more like, look at how screwed up I am. I'm going to teach you how to avoid some of my mistakes. and look at how much I've improved. And if you don't believe me, listen to episode one and then listen to episode 801. And you can literally hear the difference. You know, like you can definitely tell.

It's a very unfakable, very slow progression to my journey of self-actualization. So people trusted me and rightfully so. And that was what made it successful. And that's what makes me successful now. I don't have Kobe Bryant on to talk about how I have famous friends and look how important I am

and look at Kobe likes me. No, I go on there to be like, here's what makes Kobe great. Here's all these things that I think you should learn that I've either learned myself or that we're learning right now together from somebody like Kobe Bryant. That's different than being like, if you want to hang out with me, pay $40,000 for my mastermind, which is what a lot of marketers are doing. So I just take a different tack, you know, and I think that tag generates trust. And it makes people feel good, whereas I think a lot of marketing makes people feel bad. It's based on scarcity. If you don't buy this, your competitor's going to get it.

Whereas I'm like, hey, if you don't get this, that's fine, but you should because it's good for you. And if you don't believe me, I got all the time in the world. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a lot of power in authenticity, right? But not the fake BS kind. Like, even authenticity has been polluted now. It's probably a whole different show, right?

But like... Oh, when I see authenticity, I don't see that as having a version of being fake about it if it's there or it's not. And, you know, most people... Yeah, well, you're right. But I would say the people who are paying the most lip service to being authentic usually have a version of quote unquote authenticity that is highly manicured. I mean, the people who pipe on the most about authenticity check out their Instagram. They usually have some spit polished stuff on there.

And if they don't, a lot of the people, like a lot of female influencers have also caught onto this too. they're like, oh, we don't want highly polished. We want less polished. So now there's like the professionally unpolished where they're like, look at my awkward dance moves. Oh, I have a Zit today. I'm going to show it to you. And it's like, this is a perfectly planned, perfectly timed post about your Zit that you

highlighted. You know, it's, it's not no filter. It's Zit filter. It's, oh, look at my awkward dance moves filter. It's still a filter. You are calculating when you do this. There aren't that many. And the reason is because people who are just genuinely authentic all of the time,

they're not as interesting to people who are used to seeing marketing. You want to see someone who is authentic all the time. Look at them when there's not a camera on them. And typically those people are either really, really naturally charismatic and don't need to pose on Instagram or they're not selling you anything. And so you're right. Authenticity is a real thing, but you can't be calculated with it. And it takes all of my energy to not perform.

all the time in front of a microphone or on a stage. Like what people say the most to my wife and to me, and this I take as a super high compliment, and I hope I don't sound like I'm patting myself on the back here, but this has taken years of work, I'll put it that way. People say, wow, you're, you know, Jordan's just like he is on, on the show in real life. That's cool.

I didn't expect that. That's the highest compliment ever, because what that means is they expected this level of energy or empathy or whatever it is that they like about listening to the show, they expected at least some part of that to be fake. And the fact that I'm normally, quote unquote, nice enough in real life, that's high praise. You know, and I've seen a lot,

I know a lot of people that have huge amounts of followings online, and I can tell you, you can count on one or two hands the number of people who are the same way online as they are offline. And then you can count on another hand the number of people who are the same way they are offline as they are online, but it's because they literally don't have an authentic personality to be had because they have childhood trauma or something and they literally don't have the real version of themselves is buried so deep they don't even know that person does that make sense 100% you know the my first podcast

was the do-over podcast and that was 100% to try and sell a book I had heard another podcast on ways to self-promote and self-publish and they said record a podcast and that could be a great way expose your book. And so I had this podcast for like, you know, I probably did 20, 30 episodes before I noticed something was nobody really wanted to hear about my book. They wanted to hear about my true stories about my real estate experiences. And so I had started this secondary podcast. Okay, I'm just going to, I want to still be the number one national bestseller. So I'll start this other little podcast on the side. We'll talk about real estate. I'll answer everybody's questions over there, but I just want to keep it separate. And that one where,

there was no agenda, there was nothing to sell. It's turned into a great business since. But at that moment, it was all about, let me just, I'll answer people's questions over here. I'll tell them exactly how it works and da-da-da. And that's the one that actually exploded, right? That's the one that blew up. And it's when we started offering services and helping people invest that the people that we attracted were people just like me.

Like I was attracting people like me. and it was such a much more fulfilling way and rewarding way to do business and just much more enjoyable. And so that's when I had this distinction probably about five or six years ago. I was like, oh, what I'm going to do, and I'm going to double down on just being me and make no apologies for who I am. And business has just been fantastic because of that. I mean, I came from the music industry and I had this hip-hop show or I was a hip-hop producer. I had major label distribution. And so I had my old artist, a recorded episode, and now we only use hip hop music and everything.

We get emails all the time. I don't like your intro. We don't like the show. I was like, well, that's just who I am. And that's what you're going to have to deal with if you want to listen to you. You know? And it has been great. So, like, when I hear the word authenticity, I mean, if I hear fake authenticity,

that's like, that's an oxymoron to me, right? Agree. But you know what I mean when I say stuff like that, right? 100%. Once you explained it, I was like, yes, I don't need to see your focus, a close-up of your Zit today. Right. The one where I got rid of it. It's not the gross Zit.

It's the other one that's kind of cute and it's on this one part and I put a little makeup around it so it's not too red. I mean, I'm on to you. You know, I'm on to you, self-help blogger. Like, oh, this was totally an accident. I went on stage and I totally ad-libbed this thing that turned out to be really funny. It's like, no, you watched a lot of rom-coms. You stole this from love, actually.

I'm on to you. You know, I get it. Yeah. Man, I want to keep on talking. I don't want to keep you. We've been here almost an hour. Wow. But let me ask you this.

with you've been loving to talk so much, getting all these fantastic guests and having these interesting conversations, what do you wish you could talk more about that you don't get to? You know, that's interesting. I am not totally sure because people, gifted hosts, like, you know,

like yourself, good conversationalists, they surprise me all the time by going, I want to go off script for a second and they just ask me stuff that's super interesting. I don't really have anything where I'm like, gee, I wish somebody would ask me about the political situation in North Korea. I never get to dispouse my views on that. I really don't know. But it is, there are a lot of things I like talking about, and I'll tell you that I think that the number one darts of information out there is good advice for people. I think there's so much bad advice, especially for younger people out there.

I see a lot of this on Instagram. Quit your job, drop out of school if it's not for you. Tell your parents to go F themselves if they don't want to support your dreams. All of this is like horrible advice and ideas. And I started to wonder why people aren't asking sensible people for advice. And I realized something, and let me know what you think of this. Most people don't actually want advice. They just want encouragement to do what they were going to do anyway.

And here's an example of this in practice. I go check my Instagram inbox and I'm trying to empty this thing out. It's got like a bunch of messages in there. There's a guy that goes, hey, do you have any advice on me starting my own clothing line? I'm 21. I'm going to drop out of school and do it. And I go, don't do that. I go, you don't have to stay in school if you really don't want to, but you should get a job,

learn the clothing market, sell retail, work your way up, do supply chain. Because if you want to start your own line, you're not going to sit there drawing designs. You can do that on your spare time, hire designers, whatever you need to do. You need to learn supply chain and manufacturing. And then I didn't hear anything, but I put a little note in my calendar because I was curious. So I'd follow up with him like a month later. And I go, hey, what's new? How's this all going?

And he goes, you know what? I don't even listen to you anymore. And I was like, why? And he goes, you told me to give up on my dream. And I go, I didn't tell you to give up on your dream. I told you to get a job because it would be easier for you right now and safer than going all in on something you know nothing about. And then he was like cussing at me a little bit. Not so bad, but like, you know, in a way that a kid who's having a temper tantrum does.

And I showed this to a couple friends of mine and they were appalled. And then I showed a couple of friends of mine who have kids and they went, oh, I know where you went wrong. And I go, why? And they go, this guy didn't want advice from you, man. He wanted you to go, go for it, man. I believe in you. And I go, ah, that's why that crap's so popular on Instagram. Because I don't need someone to say, Jordan, I believe in you. I don't care what you believe in. I believe in myself. I'm fine. I need wisdom. But most people who are asking for advice, many or most, I don't know yet. The verdicts to be decided. They don't really want your advice. They just want you to be like, yeah, go for it, bro. That's why this motivational stuff is so popular on social media. If you make

real advice, you'll get like a few likes or a bunch of likes from different people than the same people are not going to be the people that like your motivational goalcast type video, right? The people who are watching Jay Shetty and Gollcast are not the same people that are actually applying stuff in creating a real business and seeking real wisdom from real advisors. It's a completely different market. And so that's, that to me was a huge realization. Because I kind of had to, people go, why don't you do more motivational? And I was just like, because the people I'm talking to on the Jordan Harbinger show, they're already motivated.

They're doing stuff. Some of them are demotivated, sure, but they're not waiting for me to get them out of bed. They're successful already. And I look at the demographics from the people we survey when we do like research surveys of the show from those statistics companies. And they're like, wow, you have 96% employment.

You have 94% college education. You have 75% making six figures. Like that's an incredible audience segment. What do you think about that? And I had no idea until this kid on Instagram made me see the light. And I realized, oh, people who just need motivation and aren't going to do squat, they're not resonating with what I'm talking about at all. People who really want to actually learn from high performers, not just be impressed by them.

Those are the people that listen to the Jordan Harbinger show, because I'm getting down to brass tacks, not just having people smile and show how many free throws they made. You know what I mean? So it's really interesting because it never occurred to me to make motivational content because I actually never really needed it myself. I wanted rubber meets the road advice. And so I really just create shows based on what I'm interested in. And that seems to work. Would I have a larger audience if I just went straight up motivational inspirational? Yes, but would that be an audience I want? Not really. And that comes down to creating, you know, the lifestyle and the business that you want. I'm sure if you sold, uh, if you sold, uh, if you sold

programs on how to flip whatever's and buy lambos, you'd have a different audience than you do right now, Matt, you know, and it might even be bigger, but it would be one that made you want to jump off the roof of your house every day, probably. Thanks for saying that, because that's been said before when the cameras weren't running before. Oh, really? Oh, totally. Yeah. It's like, gosh, we could do so much more if we just did this. And I'm just like, no, if I was just less ethical. I could make so much more money, right? Yeah. Maybe I need some more bling in my videos. Yeah. Anyway, it would be interesting to go back on your observation of people looking for

validation when they're asking for advice because I think I would wonder what the split would be because I think there's a lot of people that also ask for questions because they're looking for a reason not to try at all. Yeah. Can you repeat the question? If there was a question there, I missed it. Yeah, no, it was, I don't know. It would be interesting to see what the split is between the people that do ask people and, I don't know, that are at a different place, that are an advisory role of some extent, those that are looking for validation and confirmation for what they want to do regardless of what it is. And then the other portion of that asked the question that are looking for reasons not to try

at all. Like, I want us to know that this isn't going to work or there was an exception. That's why everyone else is getting success because they came from a different background. They had a leg up. They had a helping hand here. It's that type of thing. Yeah, I mean, I would be interested to know as well. I think a lot of people they are looking like you said for, I think you mentioned this, for excuses. Like there are so many people that will go, oh, well, in fact, I heard this actual verbatim statement the other day. Someone goes, well, it makes sense that you have a popular show. I mean, look at you. You're naturally outgoing. You're in good shape. And I'm just laughing to myself because I go, dude, in high school and college, I literally sat in my dorm room. And I remember there was one time. were there a bunch of beautiful women from like my buddy's sorority,

were outside my door room pounding on the door and making like innuendos and comments to try to get me to come out and hang out with them. And I hid and pretended I wasn't in the room. Okay? That is, that is weird. And I look back at that and just, you know, my older self just wants to kick my younger self. But I get it.

I was so shy and so introverted. And I was later on after that, when I worked on Wall Street, I gained a bunch of weight because I finally had money for the first time. I went out to eat all the time and I was in New York. Like, yes, I'm in shape because I worked at it. Yes, I'm outgoing on the show because I worked at it. Yes, I have good public speaking skills because I took a freaking $18,000 23-day long speaking class that was drilled into me by a really good coach.

Like all of this stuff took a ton of work. And so when I look at people who are like, oh, well, you have this naturally. I just go, oh, I know where your head's at. I totally get it. The amount of work it would take you to get where I am in your mind is such a high mountain that you'd rather go, well, it's impossible, and here's why. So you're busy telling yourself why it's not possible. And I'm sure there are people in your niche that are like,

oh, I can't do this because, you know, I have student loans and my husband is a debt kind of not pulling his weight around or we don't have enough income. I've got kids, so I can't set aside money for this. And you're going, well, but this other person, they're a single mom and they put aside money for this. And they have two kids and you have one and you're married and they're not. and, you know, but okay, you know, so I'm not saying excuses are invalid. Like if you're a single mom and you can't afford to do real estate investing, like you might be right. You know, you should have a good look at your finances. But I would say, don't automatically assume that that's the case. Because whenever there's somebody who says, I'm too shy to do a podcast or I'm not going to be good at it, there's another person like me who goes, yeah, you're right. You'll be right for the first eight years and then you'll be fine. But you have to be willing to

work through that. I don't think if you taught me how to real estate invest right now, I don't think I'd be like, wow, man, it's only Thursday and I'm already at the Lambo dealership. Like, there's going to be a curve. And most people don't want to take that curve. They don't want to do that because it's scary and it's riddled with potential failure and it takes a lot of time. And frankly, I think a lot of people would rather make excuses for not trying than fail and go, wow, shit, my best really wasn't good enough. That's my worst fear. And here I am. Amen to that. Well, let's finish with this. If there were three guiding principles for your success, the successful advice you would give, Jordan, what would they be? Sure. I mean, look, I'll give you some practical stuff because I don't have

like three amazing bullet points for everyone. But I would say that one thing that you should and you can and should do literally every day is open up your phone, go to the bottom of your, text messaging app, you know, like literally messages on the phone. Scroll all the way to the bottom. And at the bottom are all of those threads that you basically like, those threads that you've just let go, right? It's somebody from FinCon you had lunch with three years ago when you went and spoke at a conference.

Circle back with those people. I call this Connect 4 because I used to do it with four people a day. Now I do it with one because I've got a system going. but I sent him a message like, hey, Matt, it's Jordan Harbinger here. It's been a while since we talked at FinCon in 2016, lost touch, my bad. My update is I had a kid and I'm doing the Jordan Harbinger show and I just had an awesome interview with Kobe Bryant yesterday and it was amazing and I'm really proud of it. What's the latest with you last we talked, you know, at Cafe Gratitude?

You were adopting a dog unless I don't remember anything, in which case, you know, I don't say that. and then I sign it with my name. You got to sign it with your full name because you don't want new phone hootis or just for them to ignore you. Then you'll find that maybe like half of those people don't reply. But it doesn't matter because the half that do are going to be like, oh, great, good to hear from you. It's been a while.

You know, I actually caught one of your shows recently. Somebody was mentioning you, blah, blah, blah. You're not necessarily going to get a ton of opportunity from that right away. But what I've found is that by doing this with one person, let's say, each day, two, three weeks will go by, and I'll get another message from one of those same people, and they'll say, hey, real quick, I'm about to walk into a meeting. Do you still do speaking? Yes. Great. Okay, cool. And then a few hours later, hey, awesome. So I just pitched you as a speaker to our quarterly sales training. It's in Florida and it's in February. Can you make it?

So I'll get an opportunity like that maybe once or twice a month. That's an opportunity that I would not have gotten if I were not top of mind. And I'm literally spending a minute to four minutes per day sending these people text and reengaging what we call weak or dormant network ties. And this is so important because you're other, this is Instagram time. You're waiting in the Starbucks line. You're wasting that time normally. Instead, you can use it to reengage your network. So constantly reengage your network. And I take another, I guess, tip number two on that would be not only should you be re-engaging this network and chit-chatting and finding out what people are up to, but look for opportunities to help them. So if someone says, yeah, you know, my wife's pregnant,

she's going to give birth in a bit, I might go, my wife literally just gave birth six weeks ago, tell you what, we're about to have a whole bunch of clothes that our newborn has already grown out of. What's your address? Do you mind if I send them to you? Are you cool with that? And they're going, yeah, that's really nice of you. Now I get a chance to help them. Or they might say, I'm working on a website. How's it going? It's kind of a pain. I don't really. really know any good designers. Actually, I just redesigned my website. Would you like an introduction to that designer? So this is scalable. I'm not saying I'm going to make free graphic design for your website. I'm just offering to connect them to somebody else in my Rolodex. And that's very scalable.

I can do that 100 times a week if I needed to. And if you're doing it 100 times a week, you'd probably have an assistant, right? You can make them do it. So this is really scalable. You're reconnecting with weak and dormant ties. Second, you're working on opportunities to help those people by plugging them into each other. So that's fully scalable. And then, let's see, third on top of that, man, I would say make a practice out of giving without the expectation or attachment to getting something in return. So when you meet new people, don't think about what's in it for me. You will initially think that. That's fine. That's human nature. That's networking. But if you think about who do I know that can help this person and who do I know that this person can help, that is going to open up a

lot more opportunities. You know, I might not get something from a veterinarian I meet at a party. I might not have anything. But if I know they're looking for people with exotic pets because they're that kind of veterinarian, I start to think of who do I know that has, oh yeah, that guy has ferrets and this other guy has snakes and stuff. Huh, they might be, you never know. They might need a vet in this area. So I keep them in mind. And then those people might say, you know, other people might say something like, oh, well, you know, I really don't know how to get clients. Well, okay, I might be able to throw you some clients, but have you thought about making an Instagram about the crazy exotic pets that you see every day 10 times a day? And they go, oh, no, not really, but here are some

photos I have of people's weird lizards and snakes and crazy ferrets. I'm like, you should have this online and tag it with animal stuff and people will know you as the exotic pet veterinarian. This is a real example, by the way. And so this person created in Instagram and they have tons of exotic pets on there that literally come to their office and she just takes photos of them. And she gets new business because people have found her on Instagram and they go, yeah, you know, it's funny. I was searching and your account came up or someone mentioned you because you also take care of, I don't know, ferrets in the Bay Area. And I just, you were one of the first people that came up. So she gets business this way. And all she has to do is

take photos of her clients, which are exotic pets. I mean, it's really, really easy marketing and it's free. That's great. That's great. Those are three great ones. Thank you so much. We've been talking to Mr. Jordan Harbinger of the Jordan Harbinger Show available on Apple Podcasts, everybody you listen to podcasts. Jordan, if someone wanted to get in touch with you, what would be the best way for them to do that? Sure. I mean, of course, I'm on the Jordan Harbinger Show podcast, but I'm on Instagram and Twitter at Jordan Harbinger, and I reply to everything. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

Let's stay in touch. Let's do it again. You got it, brother. Thank you very much. All right. You take care, but bye. Yeah, yeah, we got the cash flow. Yeah, yeah, we got the cash flow.

Yeah, yeah, we got the cash flow. You didn't know home board, we got the cash flow. This podcast is a part of the C-Suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit c-sweetradio.com. Thank you.