Epic Real Estate Investing - The Real Housing Crash Isn’t Where You Think | Rod Khleif

Episode Date: September 13, 2025

🤝 Community: https://TheEscape.club 👉 Newsletter: https://ShadowCapitalBrief.com The next 2008? It won’t start where you think. Everybody’s betting on single-family crashing. But the real housing market storm is building somewhere else entirely... $500 billion of it. Let me show you where ground zero is. Connect with today's guest, Rod Khleif, at https://RodsLinks.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get up, you puss, 50 million shmillion. Go make it happen again. Now, that's who you want to be around. I'll give you a ninja trick right now. Here's the thing, Matt, and you know this. People spend more time planning a freaking birthday party than they do designing their lives. Pick your freaking vehicle. Decide how you're going to capitalize on what's coming.

Recognize that everybody that's super successful that has thousands of units started where you are right now. This is the epic real estate podcast. Contrarian takes on money, housing, and policy without the guru nonsense. Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. Let's go. If you think your retirement, your rentals, or your next deal is safe, you're watching the wrong crash. Everyone's staring at single family like it's about to break. But the real storm, it's not there.

It's in the apartments. And here's the setup. By the end of 2025, nearly $2 trillion in commercial real estate debt will have come due over the last two years. A little over one-third, about $500 billion, is apartments. And it doesn't stop. The annual maturity volume that keeps close. climbing until the peak hits in 2007, $1.26 trillion in a single year. That's not theory. That's happening right now. Already $107 billion in properties are in distress. That's a decade high. Multifamily

alone makes up 34.9% of the pain. Distress has jumped from 2.6% to 12.9%. And get this, in just a year. That's a 5x spike. Now, imagine this is you. You borrowed at 4.3% a few years ago. Now you're rolling into 6.2% plus rates. If you floated, the secured overnight financing rate just kicked you with 500 extra basis points. Your payments, they doubled. But your income didn't. You're instantly underwater the moment you refinance. So what are banks doing? Well, they're not fixing it. They're papering it over. They call it extend and pretend. In 2024 loan, they modified a record $19 billion in loans. And the Fed admits these workouts now equal 27% of bank capital. Let that sink in for just a second. This isn't just a landlord problem. It's a banking

system problem. I think it was Donald Trump famously said, if you owe the bank $5 million, you got a problem. If you owe the bank $500 million, the bank's got a problem. Meanwhile, sales volume has collapsed. Commercial loan origination is down almost 50% year over year. And brokers who used to ghost you, now they're chasing you, desperate for reliable closers. That's why the opportunity is so sharp right now, because cracks always show. at first where owners are least prepared, the mom and pop landlords. See, most 10 to 40 unit buildings are owned by people who don't know commercial math. So when they sell, what do they do?

They go and call the same agent that sold them their home. The agent dumps the deal there on the residential MLS with house style pricing. And that's how mispriced apartments just show up in plain sight. So think about that. This is like refinancing your house at double the payment. But your boss tells you no raise. That's what's happening to thousands of owners right now. So how do you play offense here?

Well, you don't need to be Warren Buffett. You need a 30-day plan. Week one, you call property managers in two metros. Ask them about rents, delinquency, insurance spikes, and lease-up times. Then just pick the stronger one. Week two, you meet with five brokers. Tell them your buy-box, 10 to 40 units. Look for buildings newer than 1978.

In-place rents below market. That's what you're looking for. Promise fast passes and certain closes. Brokers, they value certainty more than high offers. and most sellers in distress do as well. Week three, set an MLS alert for multifamily. Filter for bad photos. Vague descriptions and quote unquote needs TLC.

That's the smell of inefficiency. That's the smell of money. Week four, build a one pager for investors. Show a sample deal. Outline your underwriting. Highlight your risk controls. You're not begging for money. You're presenting a process.

Now layer in the demographic freight train. It's not 10,000 people turning 65 anymore. It's over 11,000. 200 people a day through 2007. That's 4.1 million new seniors every year. Senior households they grew by 51% since 2007 and 86% want

to age in place. They don't want to move. They want to find a spot and they want to stay. The translation here is senior housing and service-based real estate, it's only getting louder. So here's the perfect storm. $500 billion in apartment debt hitting now. Rates up 200 plus basis points from old loans. Banks are stretched to the limit on extensions, distress already at decade highs, brokers are starving for reliable buyers. The demographics are driving unstoppable demand. This is where generational deals are born when weak hands are forced to sell and prepared buyers step in. So what do you do? Well, you learn the language. You build the

relationships and you put yourself in line before the headlines catch up. And if you want a shortcut, you're going to want to stick around and stay tuned for my guest today. But right now, what happens when this distress spills over from apartments into the banks, holding all this paper, that's where the danger gets systemic. And that's what we're going to unpack next, because I brought in someone who lost tens of millions of dollars in 2008, rebuilt, and is staring directly into today's multifamily storm. So we'll talk to stressed deals, broker psychology, and how beginners carve out general partner equity without writing the biggest check. By the time mainstream media reports the truth, it's already too late. That's why we built

the shadow capital brief. To decode money, housing, and policy. see before everyone else. Subscribe today, shadowcapitalbrief.com. All right, back to the show. All right, it's been a very, very long time, but help me welcome back to the show. Mr. Rod, Kleeff. Rod, welcome back.

Hey, Matt, it's great to see you again, brother. It has been, it's probably been seven or eight years, I think. Yeah, and you haven't aged a bit, buddy. Yeah, yeah. Tell that to my body. Right. It's funny, man, how the body starts to go out, the older we get. Oh, dude, listen to this.

I pulled a muscle in my freaking glute in my butt, no less, okay? And I mean, it is really messing me up. It's like, I know that's TMI, but damn, this is happening right now. Anyway, yeah. There is all those twerking parties you got going on. Yeah, right, right. Right. Cool.

So, you know, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since we last talked, and we kind of live in a completely different world right now. Tell me what, I mean, I'm this, I pretty much have never ventured into Multifamaph. owned a few. I failed miserably. And I know that your specialty in what you do. Yeah, tell me what's the market and how's it treating you right now with what you're doing up in. Oh, it's, it's really rough, actually. The market is in deep stuff right now. A lot of operators in trouble. Myself included on a couple deals. And I had an ex-partner get me into some adjustable rate debt. You know, we're struggling with it. But there is literally a wall of debt happening right now,

about a trillion dollars in the space. And, you know, these operators that have this debt coming due, even if it's not adjustable rate, they either have to refinance or they have to sell. And sales are down 90% right now in the commercial multifamily space. So I teach people how to buy apartment complexes. That's what I do. For those of you don't know who I am, I host the largest really real estate podcast in the world for that by far. And love it.

Okay, I love what I do, luckily. So work is play. But yeah, the market is really, I'd call it a multifamily meltdown because the operators that have this debt, they either have to refinance or sell. Sales are way down and refinancing, very challenging with the current interest rate. And with Powell saying he's not going to step down and hasn't dropped the rates. And, you know, the entire world has dropped rates, but we haven't. And there's a lot of operators struggling because, and Canada, there's a lot of deals for sale right now for the debt.

It's called debt plus fees. They still don't pencil. They still don't make sense because the rates are too high. So, you know, lenders have been extending. They've been doing loan modifications. They do things called deferrals or loan modifications. And the catchphrase with the lending community right now is extend and pretend. But I'm telling you, Matt, the proverbial shit's going to hit the fan.

It's going to be incredible opportunity. I don't look at this as like a negative thing. I look at it like an exciting opportunity, you know. For people that don't know my story in 2008-9, I lost $50 million, conservatively. You know, this, I'm not going to get crushed this time. I'm going to ride this wave instead of getting crushed by it, surf it. But, you know, there's a lot of opportunity coming down the pike for sure. Yep.

You know, I've been following like the crash, right, that everyone's been talking about since 2015. And here we are 10 years later. and kind of waiting for it to happen. And inside a single family, I just, whatever caused it in 2008 just doesn't exist today. Oh, it's a completely different environment. No, no, this, yeah, completely different. I mean, 2008 and nine, I had 800 houses. I had multiple apartment complexes.

And then it was my houses that pulled me down. I had 800 houses up and down the Gulf Coast of Florida here. And, you know, and to tell you why they didn't. And I was only at a 30% loan to value. I only owed 30 cents on the dollar and I still crashed in Burden. Here's why. So, you know, these are mostly C-class houses. You know, there's A, B, C, and D's the brand new stuff.

D's the hood. Stay out of the hood. Ask me how I know. But this is C, tougher demographic, older houses. And they were like two hours north of me, two hours south of me and everywhere in between along the coast. Florida has no state income tax. So property taxes are higher, which, of course, affects cash flow.

I had some properties in wind and flood zones affects cash flow, you know, when you've got higher insurance. But what killed me was the maintenance. You know, if I had to send a maintenance guy to one of my apartments, I had some apartments back then as well. We could stockpile parts, you know, plumbing parts, electrical parts, appliance parts, and, you know, they're in and out in an hour. Well, if I had to send them to a house that's an hour away, they have to go see what's wrong.

Every house is different, it's impossible to stockpile all those parts. And then they have to go find a Home Depot or lows where we have an account. And I don't know about you, Matt, but when Rod tries to fix something, he ends up going to Home Depot more than once. And, you know, so what took an hour at one of my apartment complexes, it took all day at one of my 800 houses. So they never really cash flowed that well. But then what killed me was I didn't pay attention.

to tenant demographics back then. And I, you know, if they had a good job and they had good credit, I let them rent. They paid a deposit, let them rent. Well, I discovered after the fact when I look back on it, I had tons of contractors in my properties, plumbers, electricians, drywallers, painters, roofers, and they didn't have work. I mean, it just, you know, fell off a cliff. So it was like the perfect storm, and you want to hear something crazy. By the end of 2009, I was trying to sell my whole portfolio for the, for what I, for the

debt, that 30 cents. By the end of 2009, my portfolio was underwater. That's how much it crashed here in Florida back then. But this is completely different. I mean, back then it was a subprime crisis. If you could fog a mirror, you could borrow money. This is completely different. This is, you know, the interest rates, the interest rates, you know, a lot of these

operators got debt at 3%, 4%. I've got, you know, quite a few units at, you know, assets at that range. But, you know, if you're an adjustable rate mortgage, they're at 8 or 9% now. And then a lot of these, you know, in the commercial world, well, in residential, you can get a 30-year fixed loan and it's fully amortizing. In the commercial world, you've got to typically got a term and it's typically five years, seven years maybe. And so when that term comes due, which is what's happening with a trillion dollars with the debt, you got to refinance or sell. And refinancing is very, very challenging right now because of the interest rates. So yeah,

it's the perfect storm for commercial real estate. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you mentioned the the difference between single family and multifamily, yes, the maintenance, right? Repairs is a significant difference on how you do with that. Then you just mentioned difference in financing. There's a significant difference there and how that plays out. What are some of the other big differences between single family? Sure. Good question. Good question. Yeah. So, I mean, with a house, every house has its own taxes, has its own insurance. You know, I debate this sometimes where I'll get a single family expert like yourself and I'll be on the multifamily side. They'll be on the single family side. And we argue what's best. And from my side, you know, if you have a house and you're empty, you're 100%

vacant. If you've got a fourplex and you've got one unit empty, you probably can still pay the bills, you know, and then, of course, it just magnifies. I mean, I've got, you know, 296 unit assets, 200 unit assets and we can have 20, 30 units empty and still be fine. For me, it's safer because I'll tell you, when I lost everything in 08 and 9, I lost $50 million dollars conservatively, I had some apartment complexes and they did just fine. They pulled back about 11 percent, but if I hadn't cross, you know, I cross collateralized them with packages of houses thinking, oh, you're so smart, Raj, you're going to save 50 basis points or half percent interest. And so I lost everything because they were all cross collateralized.

But if I hadn't cross collateralized them, Matt, I'd still have those apartment complexes, which is why when I started my podcast, I don't know, nine years ago or so, I used to, I did it because, you know, I tell people, hey, if you're going to buy and hold, don't do it like I did it, buy multifamily, or if you're going to buy single family, make sure they're very closely geographically located. So, you know, you can manage them easily. They're in your backyard, whatever it is. But, you know, and I used to tell people on my podcast when I first started, I'll never sell you anything. You know, I just want to add value, which was the truth then. Now I'm a liar because I sell everything. I've got courses and coaching. And I'm going to brag for a minute,

Matt. I have about 2,000 mentorship students around the country that call my warriors. And they now own well over 265,000 units under my tutel or something I'm very proud of. And that's just in the multifamily. They have thousands of self-storage units and mobile home parks, senior housing, student housing, you name it. So yeah, very proud of that. Thank you. Cool. So, all right, so we have that and then let's say you had to make an argument. You had to go on the other side of the fence and make an argument for single family. What's the positive best? Well, the debt. I mean, the debt is the is fantastic. I mean, that's a no-brainer. You know, a 30-year fixed interest, the fixed interest rate, the 30-year term, you know,

the low down payment if you're moving in. Now, of course, if you're buying it as a rent, though, you're going to pay, you know, significant down payment. You know, my argument there, well, never, you're asking me to stay on the single family side. It's definitely the debt. And there's more available. You know, there's only about, I don't know, 2.2 million multifamily properties in the United States. There's, God knows how many tens of millions of houses there are. You know, they're probably a little more liquid. No, probably, they're definitely more liquid than a multi-family. So, you know, they're pros and cons. But I'll tell you, let me finish my. What I find, let me get back to the demand thing. What I find, though, is most people will start with single family and then

they'll just go larger, you know, and I see that in my students. They'll buy a house or two. They'll buy a duplex, fourplex, and then, you know, they're like, hey, I want to magnify this. And, you know, what's easier to buy 20 houses or to buy a 20 unit? I mean, we know the answer. Sometimes it's easier to buy a 20 unit than to buy a single family house because the, the bank's looking at the property's ability to service the debt, not your own debt to income. But as far as demand, you know, that's an interesting question. And I'm not going to profess to be an expert on what's happening, you know, in the single family space right now because I'm no longer in it. But that said, you know, I have seen some articles that right now the inventory for new home builders is about

what it was back in 2009. I mean, it's really high. You know, so who knows if the rates do drop what's going to happen. I know there's a lot of people likely sitting on the sidelines. They're like, I'm not going to sell my 3% interest loan and go buy a 7 or 8% interest loan. I mean, it doesn't make any sense or six or whatever it is. So I know there's pent up demand, but I don't know what's going to have to happen to the interest rates to make it attractive because, you know, the way things are going, you know, these small drops, if they do quarter percent drops, things like that, I don't think it's going to have that much of an impact unless it's psychological and people are like, oh, the interest rate's going down, then they go do things. So who knows? It's a crystal ball thing. You know,

I pray to God. Powell just literally was quoted today saying he's not going to step down and he's going to write out his term. So, you know, I think it's political candidly. I really do. And don't get me started on that. But anyway, yeah, we'll see. Well, you know, it's people like that I talk to, whether they're their peers, their guests on the show, their students. And the subject of politics comes up and people like, hold on all, don't get me started on that. I don't want to talk about that. But you know what? We're just. We're in an industry that's heavily dependent, or we make a lot of decisions based on what our authorities do and say, right? Sure. You know, every administration, I mean, we have no control over it. So every administration comes in. You got a new game to play.

They issue out a new set of rules, and now you've got to adjust, right? And so. Okay, okay, but you got to. Okay, but my God, the last administration, what a complete shit shirt. No, okay, don't get me started. You'll get no argument from you there. Okay. I mean, you know, what the hell are you going to do about it?

No, nothing. No, no, you're right, except bitch. That's all I do is bitch about it. No, there's not much you can do. When it comes to our business, we have to make moves based on what they do and say, right? They just brought back in 100% bonus depreciation. Absolutely love that. That's great news.

You know, obviously Trump's in real estate. You know, that's why he fought to release his tax returns because, you know, obviously it doesn't pay any taxes. Yeah, you and I don't pay taxes. When we're in real estate, you don't pay taxes. That's the beautiful thing about doing real estate. But that's the way it was set up to stimulate the economy and stimulate real estate acquisitions. So, you know, nothing wrong there.

But, you know, thank God the administration shifted. Now, he's not perfect, but I think it's headed the right direction. And, you know, there's going to be speed bumps. But if we can get the interest rates down, I think that will really open things up again and then take the pressure off some of these operators that are dying right now. I mean, I just heard yesterday, man, I mean, I used to host a large. mastermind of multifamily operators, probably in the world. There's probably about 40 or 50 billion in assets in there. And so I had, you know, a couple of the guys that were in there are, when I discovered

that they're actually losing assets, I was blown away. I mean, some big, big hitters that are really, you know, run a tight ship. At least I thought they did. And I was just shocked to hear that they had lost some properties. So it's pervasive. And, but again, I'm not trying to scare you if you're listening. Get excited. If you want to learn this business, I do a boot camp. I'll tell you about it later. You can come for literally 47 bucks and I don't sell anything there. It's two days and I don't sell anything. So it's kind of a no-brainer if you want to learn the business. But get excited. I think there's going to be deals in all of, you know, across the board and other asset classes as well. I'm very interested in senior housing right now. I've got my first C.LF under contract in Pittsburgh.

And I'm going to, I'm gearing up to buy senior housing in a big way. Happy to talk about chat about that if you like, but, you know, there's going to be incredible opportunity and to buy businesses as well. There's 10,000 people a day turning 65 in this country. I'm one of them. I just turned 65 in January. And a lot of us baby boomers, I'm the tip edge of that, have businesses that we want to sell, right? And so there's going to be incredible opportunity to buy businesses. I wish there was two of me. One would be buying businesses for sure. You know, I would tell you, those of you listening, pick your freaking vehicle, decide how you're going to capitalize on what's coming and learn it as fast as you can.

If it's multifamily, I'll tell you about my boot camp. But if it's something else, go learn it as fast as you can and get up to speed. Because a lot of people say it could be the greatest transfer of wealth we see in our lifetimes with these boomers. And they've impacted everything from diaper sales to suburbia to, you name it. And so if there was ever a time to get up to speed and pick a side hustle, this is it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Couldn't agree more.

When the market does adjust, like I know what it looks like to go out and find deals on the single family. How do you find the deals? What's the, what's the approach to finding deals in multifamily? I spend a couple hours on that. It's about boot camp, but there's some, let me give you some strategies. Obviously, broker relationships, no brainer. You contact brokers. Yeah, you get off market deals. I teach people how to do a mailing campaign kind of with some serious ninja tricks in there. But I'll give you a ninja trick right now. Find a residential real estate broker in whatever market you want to buy in and tell them to put an alert in if multifamily hits the market. Because, you know, if you're a somebody that owns a 10 unit, a 20 unit, a 30 unit, and you

buy a house through a residential realtor, it's very likely you're going to go to that residential realtor to list that 10, 20, or 30 unit. And they haven't got a freaking clue what to do with it. Okay. So they'll throw it in the residential MLS and you can find phenomenal deals that are mispriced. They're in the wrong place. So there's a serious. ninja trick right there. My buddy, Kevin Bup, I'm sure you know Kevin. He has the mobile home park. Yeah, great friend, super integrity. And I spoke at one of, he used to teach the mobile home park investing. He doesn't do it anymore. But I went to one of his boot camps because he had me speak. And he took us on a tour of a 200 space park and somewhere orange something, Florida. He found that way. Whoever had listed it, put it in the residential MLS. And he got a scream and deal on that mobile home park. So that's a great ninja trick. But yeah, so there's a couple of ways, mailing. But brokers is. the big way, candidly, but you've got to develop relationships with those brokers. Now, it used to be you couldn't even get the time of day from them, but now I get more emails about deals than I've ever gotten in my life from brokers. Yeah, because nothing's selling. So they used to be the bell of the ball.

They're not anymore. So, you know, you can, but you got to know the nomenclature. This is the stuff I teach. You know, by the way, let me just mention it real quick. If you're interested in the multifamily business, you can come to my virtual boot camp. I have them every couple of months. They're free. I mean, they're $47. I don't sell anything. But to do the 47, though, use the code Matt, okay, M-A-T-T, and I'll make sure and tell my team that. Use the code Matt, and that'll get you that price. I mean, it goes up as much as 300 bucks or more so you can get the 47. It comes with my document library, my deal evaluator, sophomore, my finding deals course.

I mean, it's like $3,000 in bonuses. So there's no excuses. If you want to learn this for $47 with nothing being sold for two days of training, you know, I don't want to hear your excuse. So, but where you go is you go to Rod's bootcamp.com. Rods bootcamp.com and use the code mat if the price is more than the 47 and you'll get that. All right. Rodsbootcamp.com.

And use the code mat for sure. And yeah, I mean, you'll leave knowing how to pick a market, evaluate the market, pick, find deals, lots of ways to find deals, how to evaluate them, how to raise all the money you need for them, how to finance them, how to syndicate, how to joint venture, how to, you know, how to property manage. And I'm known for mindset. There's a reason my students are so successful because they actually take out. with what they learn. You'll leave so motivated you'll be coming out of your skin. So, yeah. Yeah, no, I know that's about 80 to 90 percent of what you, you, where you come from, your mindset, right? 80 to 90 percent of your success in anything's your mindset. You know, if it was knowledge, there'd be a bunch of wealthy college professors and librarians out there. It's the do and it's the keep doing. And, you know, so, you know,

the first thing we do at my boot camp is goal setting on steroids, because how do you get anything if you don't know what it is? And, you know, when I lost everything, that's the first thing I did. I reassociated with my goals and not just the goals, but why those goals are an absolute must. It's very, very powerful process. And by the way, if you have no interest in multifamily and you're listening to this and you'd like to do the goal setting, if you go to rodslinks.com, at the bottom is my goal setting workshop. Rodslinks.com. There's a free guide you can download. I'm not going to try to sell you anything. Here's the thing, Matt, and you know this. People spend more time planning a freaking birthday party than they do designing their lives. Spend an hour with me and design your

freaking life, okay? You know, have your spouse do it. If their kids, if your kids over 10 years old, have them do it. So again, rodslinks.com is my link tree, is a bunch of free resources there. The boot camp site's there as well, my social media. But at the bottom is my goal setting workshop. And it's very, very powerful. And that's how you make things happen for yourself. You know, you've got to figure out what it is you want, why you want it. And then, you know, then you've got to take massive freaking action. Bottom line. You mentioned creating relationships with brokers and stuff like that because it is a people business 100% right in all the shiny objects and the little technologies and everything all of those

have one single purpose to get you face to face with another person right and fortunately talking to people is free and going out and meeting people is free and so someone that's brand new into multifamily or looking to get into it how do they what's the best approach for them to go to and get them to be taken seriously great question well first of all they've got to learn the language they got to learn the nomenclature so again get your butt to my boot camp for god's sake you'll get a manual that's about two inches thick. It's got all the glossary in it. You know, I mean, that's the easy answer for me, obviously, but you got to know the lingo. I mean, yeah, you go to YouTube University if you want, but for $47, I can't do it any lower that. That's like a no-brainer.

But, you know, you start a relationship with the broker, okay? You can tell them you're a newbie, and that's, you could start it that way. But I'd encourage you to learn the lingo because they'll take you much more seriously, okay? And because they have to work with somebody that they know is going to close on a property because they don't get paid unless it's closes. You know, a lot of deals are failing right now. You know, right now, surety of close is more important than price for brokers. And so the more articulate and seasons you sound, even if you're faking it until you make it, it's really important. So there's that, you know, start the relationship, you know, with a broker, you want to respect that relationship and you want to stay in front of them.

You want to, you know, contact them every two or three weeks and whatever methodology you decide, email, phone, whatever. And I'll tell you something else, because so many deals are falling through, If you're in the top of mind for them, when a deal falls through, you could be first in line to get it to write an offer on it. And I can't tell you how many deals my students have gotten that way, just by staying in touch and getting deals that fell through that they'd initially bid on, but somebody else bid more. And the broker can make you freaking wealthy. Okay, absolutely can make you wealthy. So you don't want to be a black hole. They send you a deal.

You make sure you follow up with them. And if you come to the boot camp, I'll give you a strategy where really a methodology where when you come back to them, you can show them why it didn't make sense to you. their socks off. And so that'll really give you credibility. But, you know, make sure you respond and get to know them. Become friendly. Now, the thing about commercial multifamily is you don't have to buy in your own state, okay? That, you know, there's professional third-party property management companies that can manage the asset for you in whatever state you're in. I've got assets in seven states. And so, but, you know, the thing I would tell you is that, you know, when you decide on your market, and if it's not your backyard, you can start these relationships with brokers over the phone,

property managers as well, property management companies. And, yeah, but then you've ultimately got to go there and break bread with them and go look at their listings or whatever. And that'll really open things up. They need to meet you. They need to see you. They need to see your integrity. See your passion. And that really opens things up.

But you can start the relationships over the phone or Zoom or whatever. But then you've got to go fly out there for a couple of days, you know, go look at their listings. And again, meet with the property management companies. If you go to that Rod's links, there's a bunch of free books there. One of the books is how to hire a third party property management company. It's probably the best resource available for sale or not for sale. And all those books, they're free. So it's free.

But we learn more about a market from interviewing the property management company that probably anybody else. So it's just a great way to really get to know an area. And all the questions you can think of are in that book as well. Again, rodslinks.com. But yeah. So I don't know if I answered your question. I kind of went down a side road there. Yeah, well, I just, you know, if someone comes to me and there,

their financial resources are minimal. There's certainly strategies to go and get your, and make some money, right? Someone in that situation in the multifamily space, are there ways to do it or do you need? Oh, God, yes. Are you kidding? No, you don't need money to do it.

I mean, I know this sounds like some guru bullshit, but it's not, okay? Here's the thing. These deals take money, a lot of money, but it doesn't have to be your money. And I teach you how to raise the money, okay? My students have raised hundreds of millions of dollars to buy these deals, okay?

And so you can even raise what's called the at-risk capital, which is the earnest money, the lender costs because you're going to pay a lender to order the appraisal and surveys and all that stuff. The due diligence cost to scope the sewer lines and have vendors come out. It's called the at-risk capital. Typically, you give up 10% of the general partnership piece for the at-risk. I put up at-risk capital numerous times, you know, it's $500,000 sometimes on a big purchase. You can raise all, and then you raise the rest of the money from limited partners that come into your deals. You know, now, again, this is all the stuff that I teach at the boot camp. I teach, you know, I have a syndication attorney come in and teach that piece because typically you're going to do that in a syndication. Although you could do it in a joint venture. I've got students that have, you know, found great deal and gotten, you know, person to put up all the money and split them 50-50. Absolutely. I mean, multi-million dollar deals. I've seen that happen with students. And I fact, when I was young, I did it as well. I did it on houses, though. I bought a couple hundred houses in Denver that way, 50-50 with partners. They put up the money. I did all the work. we split it. But again, these deals take money, but it doesn't have to be your own. So I teach you how to

raise it. You know, the stock market is very volatile right now. Now, I will tell you, though, full disclosure, raising money now is harder than it was because of a lot of deals that are in trouble right now. So, you know, you have to work at it. We just raised all the money we needed for that senior housing facility in about five days. Now, of course, that's me and I've got a big reach. But, you know, my students are closing on deals every single week, literally every, we can't even keep track of it anymore. So, you know, they're raising the money for these things. They're not putting their own little of their own money. What are some of the things that you or the students have to do in advance to make that money raise easier? You've got to know that know enough about the business

so you're congruent, so you're believable so that people can feel confident that, you know, if they give you money, that you know what you're doing. And one of the things in my, in my boot camp is I give you a sample deal package. And it's a deal we closed on in San Antonio last year. And to complete presentation of a deal, PowerPoint presentation, and then you can give it to somebody to say, this is the kind of stuff we're looking. for if I find something like this, should we talk? So I make it easy if somebody's, you know, uncomfortable with starting those conversations. But here's the thing. When you start to get into this business, you're going to want to start developing relationships with potential investors.

And you can just start educating them. I mean, that's really the best thing you can do is you can go to meetup groups. I've got students. I have a school teacher that's raised millions of dollars by going to meetup groups and just standing up and talking about the fact that she's doing multifamily. She's a freaking school teacher. Okay. She was just on my, my last boot camp on a panel. And don't think that where you come from is a deal breaker. Again, she's a schoolteacher. I've got, of course, professionals like doctors and surgeons and dentists and a lot of people from IT, athletes. I've had famous actors and NFL NBA players. And, you know, they may have a little leg up because they know people with money, but the school teachers,

they don't have any money, which is a travestee. Don't get me started on that as well. But anyway, You know, if you learn the business and you like it, I think it's important that you like it. If you don't like it, don't do it, honestly. Life's too freaking short. But when you love what you do, work is play. I love what I'm doing. You know, that's why maybe you can feel some of my passion because when you love what you do, you're passionate about it.

And people feel that. So if you enjoy, you know, if you start to learn this business or any business for that matter, kind of. But if you enjoy it, you'll be passionate about it. And passions require to influence people to invest with you, to work with you, to partner with you. And so that's a really important piece. And that's why I would tell you to play to your strengths. In the multifamily space, there's lots of different hats you can wear.

You can be the person that's the mouthpiece like me. You know, you can be the analytical person that underwrites the deals, you know. You could be the person that asset manages it after the fact, if you've got some construction experience or any management experience, project management experience, any management experience, you can manage the property because you're going to manage the property management company. You're going to keep them on their toes. You're going to check their, you know, their KPIs and keep a,

performance indicators, make sure you're checking delinquency and renewals and how long it's taken to do a maintenance work order and stuff like that. So there's lots of different hats you can wear. You could be the one that raises money, okay, but you want to play to your strengths. Your strengths are your greatest assets. Don't try to build your weaknesses. And when you do, you're in the zone or you're in the quon like Jerry McQuire. You love it and you have passion, and you have the ability to influence. So coming up, right, right? I mean, there's a lot of predictions. I follow Ken McElroy a little bit. Kenny's awesome.

The adjustments in the credit, like what you're talking about in the financing, and that's going to create a lot of opportunity. How are you positioning yourself? Where should you best to catch the deals when they start to pop up? Well, I mean, you've got to start building the relationships. And so, you know, there's no time to waste here. If you're interested in real estate, get up to speed, whatever you're going to go after, get up to speed as fast as you can.

So learn it. But then you've got to start building the relationships. This is a relationship business. I can tell you, those, you know, I think we probably could be pushing close to 280,000 units in my warrior program. They're almost all done between warriors, okay? So go, if you're not interested in that, and if you're interested in applying to my warrior program, text the word crush to 7, 2, 3, 4, 5. That's how you apply. But the bottom line is, start going to meetups in your town.

Start meeting people that are doing this. Start building those relationships because they're going to be people that have money. There's going to be people that have deals. There's going to be people that have knowledge. There'll be, you know, there'll be lenders and brokers and so on and so forth, but you've got to get around it. It's like the power of your peer group. I will tell you, and you've all heard it before. Show me your three best friends.

I'll show you who you are in every aspect of your life, your health, your happiness, you're definitely your finances. And so, you know, get around people that want more out of life. A lot of people will default to a peer group that they went to school with or that they work with. You know, a lot of these people will have their own fears. They'll have their own limiting beliefs, you know, and they'll hold you back. And sometimes it's family. You know, love your family, but proactively choose your peers. Start going to, you know, meetups and groups of people that want more out of life.

When I lost everything in 2008 and 9, Matt, I was in Tony Robbins' Platinum Partnership. I was a high-level masterminds, like over $100,000. It's a lot more than that now. But I was around people that were killing it in that crash. I mean, killing it. And they're like, get up, you puss, 50 million, sh million, go make it happen again. Now, that's who you want to be around. People like that want more out of life, right?

So really proactively, look who you're hanging out with. And if you want more, you're going to have to probably, you can still love them, but you may have to leave a few of them behind and go around some people that want more. Because a rising tide lifts all ships. That's why my warrior program is so extraordinarily successful. It's because everybody's validating each other, praising each other, and helping each other. That's the environment you need to be in if you're serious about taking your life to the next level. So we'll certainly link to everything.

Thanks for sharing all those links. That's very generous. and we'll make sure those are all in the show notes. But if we're going to leave people with, I say, three very practical action steps to get started in multifamily, whether they came to your workshop or not. What would that three action steps?

I have a best-selling free, if it's a book that I give away for, well, you pay six bucks and I'll ship it to you. It costs me 30 to ship it to you, okay? So don't say, oh, well, you're making money on it because they cost me 30 to ship. But if you go to rodslinks.com, rodsplurrolinkspro.com,

there's the free book section, and my bestselling book is there. And it's really good. Okay. I can tell you it's very, I've never had a critical word about it. It's a number one bestseller in three categories. It's titled, how to create lifetime cash flow through multifamily properties. That's a great place to start. Okay, it's six bucks or seven bucks or something, you know. That's a no brainer. Start listening to my podcast. It's the largest in the world for this. It's called Lifetime Cash Flow Through Real Estate Investing. It just blows my mind how well it's done. That'll help you a lot as well. And I do a clip every week called Own Your Power.

It's a motivational clip. You give me five minutes a week. I'll juice you. I promise you. You'll be juiced. And that's probably the reason it's been so successful because people don't remember what you say, but they remember how you made them feel. And those clips really make you think and feel and look in the mirror and grow. But there's some free things.

The podcasts are great. The books, you know, and start playing around with this. Start going to meet up. So people who are doing this. You know, listen to podcasts. You'll love mine. You know, get my free book. And there's, again, a bunch of other free books there that don't cost you anything.

And just start educating yourself. Start getting around people that are doing this. Educate yourself and just immerse yourself in this and recognize that everybody that's super successful that has thousands of units started where you are right now. So don't get discouraged. Just get in there and start mixing it up. Awesome. Awesome. So what are you most excited about for the future?

I know there's going to be incredible opportunity in the multifamily space. It's coming. It's inevitable. They can't stop it from happening. So there's that. I also love the senior housing space. I mean, it's kind of a no-brainer. There's a huge need there.

So I'm excited about those two things. And this is going to sound like hyperbole, but honestly, you know, your goals change over time. I've had the Rolls Royce and the Bentley and the Lamborghini and all that stupid shit. I still collect watches, which is my last remaining vanity. But, you know, your goals change. And I've got a wall in my office down in my other building. I'm in a compound here in Florida on the water. And I've got a wall down there that's covered with hundreds of thank you cards for my students.

And that's something that juices me and is incredibly pleasurable for me. And then I've also, you know, I'll tell you a quick story. I think it'll add value. So when I immigrated this country, I immigrated from the Netherlands. I was six years old and came across on a boat with my mother and my brother. And we ended up in Denver. But I knew I always, and I lived in Denver for 30 years, but I knew I was wanted to live on the beach. And of course, there's no beach in Denver.

So I would visualize the palm trees and the surf. And 20 years later, I built this incredible, what's probably now a $20, $25 million mansion on the beach. And, I mean, just to describe this, I owned a beach on one side. I had my boats on the back side. It was called a Gulf to Bay. It was like a sliced through an island. Big spiral staircase up through the middle, giant waterfall from the second floor balcony into the pool, pools and magazines. On the second floor, I had aquariums built around the staircase. It cost me almost 200 grand. So this gives you an idea of the house. Two months after I moved in, Matt, so I worked for this thing for 20 years. That's how long it took me to make it happen. Two months after I moved in, I'm floating up and looking at this testament to my ego, which is really what it was.

It was to prove to the world I was good enough. I had limiting beliefs that I wasn't good. good enough. You know, if that didn't do it, you know, forget it, you know. And so I'm looking up at this thing and I got depressed and I don't mean a little depressed. I mean, I got really depressed. I'm like, what the heck's going on here? And there were three things happening. The first thing is you should never achieve a big goal without having other goals lined up behind it. Because like the good book says, without a vision that people perish, you need a vision for the future. And I didn't know what I was going to do next. So that's one. And the second thing is it's never about the goals. You know, they say the happiest days of a boat owner's life the day they buy the boat and the day they

sell the boat. And happiness comes from progress and growth. And I didn't know how I was going to grow beyond that. I was like locked. But the third big thing was I'd, you know, been totally focused on me. Rod, Rod, Rod, you know, show the world I'm good enough. Show the world I matter. And that's the year I met Tony Robbins. And I went and saw him. This was 25 years ago. And I saw that he fed families for the holidays. And I'm like, what a concept, you know, do something for someone else. I'm embarrassed to say I had to be 40 to get that memo. But I went back and I called my brother. I was going to go visit him for Thanksgiving in Denver. I said, bro, let's feed five families. So he called his church about five families that really needed help. And the third family changed my life, Matt. We go up to this house.

It was this Hispanic woman with five kids. And we had bought toys for the kids, frozen turkey, a full meal. And she sees this stuff on the porch. She starts crying. Her kids come out to the older ones, start crying. I start crying. I'm hooked. Now, what I'm going to tell you next is not ego. And there's a real message in this. So don't tune it out, guys, especially those are you that want success. Okay. In the last 25 years, I fed over 150,000 children here. in my area in Sarasota, Bradenton, Florida. I've, you know, and I've provided tens of thousands of backpacks filled with school supplies. We just ordered 2,000 for the next round in August. I've done thousands and thousands of teddy bears to local police departments for officers to keep in their vehicles

if they encounter a child that's been in a traumatic situation. And again, I'm not saying this to brag. Tony Robbins calls it the science of achievement versus the art of fulfillment. Achievement's a science. You want to learn multifamily. Get your butt to my boot camp. You'll leave knowing how to do it. I'll give you the blueprint, you just got to do it. But fulfillment is an art. Science of achievement, art of fulfillment. Fulfilment's an art. You got to figure out what you love and what juices you and give back to that immediately. For me, it's kids and it's also the elderly. Maybe for you it is as well. Maybe it's animals. Maybe it's the environment. And don't say, well, you had money. That's why you gave back. You want the money? Give back right now. Give up your

time or give money. That's the way God works. That's the way the universe works. Whatever you want, you give and you get back tenfold or a hundredfold. I'm sure you agree with me, Matt. And so, you know, figure out what juices you give back right now and success will come faster. That's just the way it works. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Great sentiment to wrap this up.

I really appreciate your time today, Rod. Those have been amazing. And I'll make sure all those links that we had, Rod's bootcamp.com, rodslinks.com. And then you get all the freebies that Rod's got already on his website for you. And then let's stay in touch. Let's do this again, buddy. Thanks, brother. It's great to see you, my friend.

All right, bud. Keep kicking butt. Take care. We'll do. Bye. See you. This podcast is a part of the C-suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit c-sweetradio.com.