Epic Real Estate Investing - Virtual Wholesaling Amid COVID | Gavin Timms | 1006

Episode Date: May 2, 2020

In today’s episode, Matt interviews Gavin Timms, a successfully virtual wholesaler, a CEO of GT Property Investment, and a passionate coach who partnered with Joe McCall in 2016. Gavin shares what strategies he uses to get his wholesaling deals closed under the current quarantine restrictions and what opportunities he sees in wholesaling business for the upcoming period. Tune in and find out more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Terrio Media. Success in real estate has nothing to do with shiny objects. It has everything to do with mastering the basics. The three pillars of real estate investing. Attract, convert, exit. Matt Terrio has been helping real estate investors do just that for more than a decade now. If you want to make money in real estate, keep listening. If you want it faster, visit R-E-I-Aase.com.

Here's Matt. Hey there, Epic Investor. It's Matt Terrio from Epic Real Estate. This is where we show people how to invest in real estate with an emphasis on retiring early. This is the Epic Real Estate Investing show. If it's your first time here, glad you found us. Make yourself at home. Make yourself cozy. Pull up a chair.

Kick up your feet. If you like what you hear, make sure you hit the subscribe button before you go. And if this is not your first time here, welcome back. And thank you. I'm very grateful for you sharing this with your friends and family. we would not have been here for 10 years if it wasn't for you doing that. So you're the absolute best for doing that. So thank you.

Got a guest for you today. We got a couple mutual friends, really good friends, Mr. Chris Arnold and Mr. Joe McCall, two awesome dudes. And I actually met this gentleman. He had a dinner. And we struck it off. And I just didn't recognize his name when he saw it on the calendar. And I was like, okay, well, he came.

recommended by Chris and Joe. So he's got to be a good guy. And saw his face here on Zoom. Oh, what's up, buddy? So I just learned something really cool about him. He's originally a golf professional. Still holds his PGA license, which is very cool. Being a big golf fan myself.

Moved to the U.S. in 2012 from England. And he's got a passion for travel and work. And he drove to discover the world of real estate investing. in his pursuit of freedom. So he's a coach, he's an investor, he's active, he's in the trenches, and all this month, or I guess since we've kind of been on quarantine, I've been asking people to come on the show and just talk about how this new environment, this new world, is impacting them and what they're doing to modify and what opportunities do they see, what challenges do they see, and just so you can get,

being on our little old mastermind. So please help me, welcome to the show, Mr. Gavin Timms. Gavin, welcome to the Epic Real Estate Investing Show. appreciate it Matt. How you doing? Very good. Oh, you are from England, aren't you? I am. Yes. You are not from Alabama. We're good to see you again, but I'm glad you made it.

Appreciate it. What happened to that guy? Right? But there you are. Right there on my calendar. So, super. So he came over from England, and that was back, what, 2012-ish? We haven't been here very long. How did you come over here and did you have real estate experience over there or did you get started from scratch here? Yeah, started from scratch. Kind of a crazy story, actually. Came over as a golf road, you know, obviously trying to follow the weather originally.

And then I met my wife, which is my wife now. But when I came over, I was still in golf across the United States. My wife was a travel nurse. So when I first came over, she's always wanted to do travel nurse. and I love to travel. And so literally, she would take 13-week assignments, and I'd go into golf. We'd just follow the weather.

So, I mean, I worked in San Fran, Phoenix, Michigan, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, multiple places, just literally, wherever the golf spot is at the time of year, she'd take a job. And then in between assignments, we'd have a bunch of time off. Like, we'd take, she just wouldn't take an assignment for eight weeks. We'd go back to England, travel, and then kind of come back and do it all again. So it was pretty awesome. So we did that.

And I came across real estate by absolute chance. You know, being from England, I always knew that I wanted to be in business. I had no idea what it was going to be. And it was not even real estate. I wanted an online business and I could work from anywhere, a phone and a laptop. And it kind of sounds cheesy because everyone wants that, right? A lot of people do. But I came across a gentleman.

We were back in England visiting and we went on vacation. my parents in the UK, a place called St. Ives Cornwall. And we went into a coffee shop. It was in the evening. It was like a wine bar coffee shop. Coffee shop in the day, wine at night. And we were debating if to go into this, it's probably about 9.30 at night. Well, okay, let's have a quick drink. So we go in. There's really tiny England's obviously small anyway, but it's real tiny shop and the tables were pretty close together. And there was an Irish guy, two couples next to us, tables close together. And there's an Irish guy there. My wife's like, oh, that guy's from South Africa. And I'm like, no, he's not. It's from

Ireland. She was not having any of it. So I was like, I know he's from Ireland. Like, I don't even need to have this discussion, you know. So, of course, get you up the guy, the first opportunity I did. I was like, excuse me, where are you from? He's like, oh, I live in Manchester, but I'm from Ireland. So I'm like, see. And they're like, where are you guys from? She's from America. So obviously the conversation now just starts. So we're going like, what do you do? What are you here for and he said he said I'm a property investor but I don't see houses and I was like how are you a property investor but you don't see houses well comes to know that it's basically wholesaling virtually right so he starts saying you'd be good at it and I've just been telling him that I've

been looking for something to do but I'll just keep doing what I'm doing because I need the freedom and obviously vacation in the US five days just isn't going to cut it right so anyway from that conversation, I started then to look in. I don't know if you know a guy called Tom Wade from England who used to be in the business. Joe, at the time, McCall was doing something with him and started looking at his material and kind of got in this over then the next few months and thought, you know what, let's go all in. So I hired a coach and I went all in. Absolutely no idea what I was doing and went full virtual from day one. So, you know, that's kind of how it got going and kind of got it going from there.

You know, it was hard at the start and just, yeah, started to get deals done. Very good. So what does business look like for you today? Actually, good. We've had a good month with COVID. We're looking really, the way that we set the business up, rely a lot on small teams, don't have a big team. So our overhead is low, which is great right now. Also, with a virtual, you know, we try and do deals more over the phone and to lock deals up.

and then we did have to pivot. One of the biggest takeaways that I could give anyone listening right now for what we did is number one, old leads, a lot of follow-up. We do a lot of follow-up period, but more than ever follow-up and really going after vacant. So that was kind of straight away

as soon as we could see what was happening. We pivoted to go right, we're going back through the CRM, we've got thousands of leads, but for anything vacant, I don't even care if it was before, I think it was March 10th. We're calling them again, even if it was that soon,

because obviously the pandemic had come in. And that's what we focused on. And we literally focused on vacant houses. And even the ones that, you know, are absentee or rented, we do manage to get creative if the tenant is willing. So we did do like walk through Zoom call a couple of times, video in it live, telling them right, walk in the next room, move around, up, down, doing all that.

But the tenant has got to be willing to help you. So it's trying to build that relationship with the tenant. And sometimes like, no, we're not doing it. You're not coming in. And that's the end of it. And there's nothing you can do other than get with the seller and say, hey, you know, if we can contract it, we want to buy this, but we're going to have to, you know, kind of see it out.

And that was kind of the big transitions that we did. So really, new list was vacants, you know, absentees, some driving for dollars if you get bored. and then obviously follow-up, follow-up, follow-up with what was in the CRM. In terms of just some numbers, we had, we closed one last week. It was a pretty big one for us. It was like 44,000. And we've got another about 50,000 in closing over about five deals.

And we've got about three more under contract with trying to get in. So it's been a good month. We had 90K in closing through the pandemic, which is good. but it's all about again you probably agree it's all about profit at the end of the day like I said we're not big on offices and all that big teams

it's what you're putting in your pocket right so low marketing budget you know we're not I don't we don't do half a million a month or anything or 200,000 a month like some people do but it's all about what are you putting in your pocket how big your team how big you're overhead

because I mean we know a lot of the same people we know who's hurting we know who isn't And kind of we probably see the similar things in the market. And it really comes down to where we read a marketing expense to see who is surviving or how long they can survive with what's going on. Right. What market or where do you operate from? What city?

So I live in Savannah, Georgia. But I actually do business. The ones that we're just talking about is in Alabama, Birmingham, Alabama. I also do some stuff in Tallahassee, Florida. I do a little bit in Augusta, Georgia, and then Maui, Hawaii. But we have put Maui on hold. I only do in Maui flips with a flipper. So I have a partner there that we get paid.

We've got it creative with the deal, but we get paid on the back end of the flip on that. So we don't wholesale. We kind of just in it together. But we have put that on hold. And we really just went deep in really a booming, Alabama to keep that going just while we're in this pandemic. So we just shifted a little bit for it to make sense. Got it. Okay, so you're, the consensus that I've been getting from

everybody this month is there's gold in those old leads. Oh, they're the best. That's what you're finding right now. And this is the market shifts. People that weren't motivated two weeks ago or all of a sudden motivated today. Right? Cool. So you're calling through those. What is, what does your call sound like? What does that look like? Yeah. So, well, for us, I have obviously acquisitions guy. Well, you could say his acquisitions, but he doesn't see the property. He literally sits on the phone. So he's doing the calls, not me anymore like I used to. But it's the same thing. We've pivoted a little bit. It's more of a checking based on the notes. One of the biggest things for us is taking very good notes from the previous call.

So you always want to pick up from where you last left off. which is huge. And even if it was, like you say, it was in March that we spoke or it could have been two years ago. Hopefully we've followed up, you know, before two years. But that's how old the lead might be. So we have a lot of notes or maybe newer notes. Well, the conversation is really just checking back in.

So it would look like, hey, Matt, how you doing? This is Gavin. We spoke about, you know, your property a month ago, three months ago, six months, whatever the time trade would be. We would touch base. Hey, do you have a minute, just a chat? I do. Look, we were interested in buying it. You know, would you, have you got any interest in selling it?

It's obviously crazy what's going on in the world right now. And kind of say, how are you coping with this and get a feel? Sometimes we'll lead in about the property, but a lot, it's not about the property. It's about the person and their situation. So it's more like how you're holding up. You know, what do they think about the situation? And everyone's got an opinion, right? It's like, well, yeah, I'm struggling.

I've lost my job. And you're going to find motivation. that way or people are going to say this is ridiculous and, you know, we're being, we should have freedom to do what we want. And you've got other people that say, you know, and we should be staying in. And it's all opinions, right? You have to adapt. You don't get into an argument. You put your views aside. You just agree with whatever they say. Absolutely. 100%. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, it's frustrating. Yeah, I know you want your freedom. It is annoying, isn't it, when we have to stay in? Regardless of what I think, I'm just going, I'm just building rapport,

having a conversation. And then the property will always come secondary. You know, why you're calling. But if it makes sense and if it doesn't, like, oh, no, we're good. We've worked from home. We've got the kids. And well, look, you know, sounds like you're doing well. Look, if we're still interested in 1, 2, 3 Main Street.

So if anything changes, let us know. And if they don't buy at that point, then no problem. We'll just leave them on follow up and we'll go again and go into the next one. So we're not being forceful. They're going to come to the table very quickly. one of the biggest things is, is that you'll see, you know, in real estate, everyone kind of sits on the fence, right? And what we're seeing in follow-up is either they want to sell and they're like, yeah, actually, now is good. Like, we've got to get going.

Or it's going to be like, now we're going to wait and see what this thing does. But at least it's a decision made. We're not getting that, well, maybe possibly. We're seeing less of that and more decisions. Got it. Which is good. Totally. That's what we want.

We want a yes or a no. Absolutely. Good with either one. Sure. All right. So cool. So your conversation, you find someone that's interested, you're locking deals up over the phone. What is locking it up over the phone look like? Ideally, if we can, we're going to get the contract, right? So we're big on if we, I don't know a percentage. I feel like 85 probably percent, 80 percent at the time we'll try and get the contract before actually going in. If we can get pictures, then we will. Every situation is different. But we try and get the

contract on it because we have an inspection period. So we say that, you know, well, based on the numbers, we're not a business that goes knowing that we have to renegotiate. Absolutely not. We work the numbers based on the situation and the scenario that they've given us on what's needed. Now, if we go in and that isn't the case, sellers are not always going to tell the truth. We're only going to be moving them on the repairs rather than because we've made a mistake

in terms of the formula that we'd be using, right? So it's only based on that, but it would be like, okay, well, look, we feel that we can make, you know, offer around this if they like that number, we'll say, look, the next step is, we're going to send you a contract. You know, if it's vacant, we'll say, hey, can we get a lot box on there to send our contractors, our people in that need to see the property? So we'll do that if we can. If not, we'll obviously try and meet the seller out there.

Social distancing, we will bring that up and say, look, you know, you can unlock it. We'll have a mask. We'll go in and get pictures. We're probably going to have to get back in again. So everything is, everything's different. We obviously pivot. If they're older, sometimes we will have to get it in terms of sending it in the mail. If they don't use docky sign or anything, we'll send it in the mail.

Sometimes we'll drop it off. People on the ground there will drop it off. And I mean, we have to do that whatever pleases the seller right now. Like if they're like, well, we don't want people, we understand. So we're like, look, we can, you know, put it in a zip lot. we'll wipe it down before we put it in the, you know, the mailbox, we'll leave it on the porch. Anything that's going to, whatever they want to do that's going to make them comfortable is what we're going to do, right?

However we're going to do that, whether that's, you know, any of them things, a walk through video, up-to-date pictures, anything that's going to move the process along is what we're going to try and do. Okay, cool. So, yeah, docky sign is obviously the easy way, right, to get it signed and if they're willing to open up, if they got an email, knowledge of dress because we find that in the absolutely particularly where you're working that probably comes up doesn't I mean that comes up more often than you would think it would yeah um so if you're

going to go to the property so and you've mentioned team what does your team look like you got boots on the ground on all of those markets yeah so we have um yes so I have partners on the ground right but they don't always go to the property either uh sometimes we have what we call a runner so we pay a runner which is basically a person that goes and gets us pictures, puts a lot box on and shows the house if we want them to. They don't have any real estate experience, absolutely none. They just know how to take a picture and open the door, right? And we pay them to do it that way.

Or sometimes depending on the type of deal, the size of deal, who the buyer is, then I have, like Alabama, I've got Melissa on the ground who I partner with, she will go out and meet the buyer. So again, case by case. But we do use runners as much as we can. And that looks depending on what type of side of town. It could be 25, 50 bucks to go out and get us pictures. Sometimes we'll group two or three together if they're in the same area, things like that.

All right. So the people that are on your team that go out and get contract signed and stuff like that, did you know them before or did you build them after the fact, builds your team after the fact? Yeah. So when we started, it let me take, I have partners in different areas, but let's just work Alabama because it's a similar scenario. So Alabama, it was just me and the whole. I made the Alabama joke and I didn't even know you're in Alabama. Yeah, yeah.

Go ahead. So I have a partner on the ground there. So it was just two of it. So what happened was is that I do from a virtual level. So I run all the systems, you know, the cold call and the VAs, all that stuff, the lead gen. and then she would get the con. I'd have the leads pre-screen. She would lock the deals up and then sell them.

That's what we did to start with. And there was just two of us, plus my lead gen people. Then we started to do too much, got too busy. So then we bought on an acquisition or a phone guy. So his job then is just to sit and basically get contracts. And if he can get them signed, that's what we do. Or we'll send someone out to get the.

the signature, mobile memory, whatever we can do to do that. So we have him, we have Melissa, and then runners as we have a couple of runners that we use, depending on who's available. And that's pretty much it on the ground there. And then I have my VAs, so I do a lot of cold calling and texting. That's what I do for lead gen. And they're in the Philippines. They, I don't outsource and they work directly for me.

Got it. Yeah. Great. Okay, cool. So you got the contract, locked it up over the phone, got multiple markets. And you've got, you had a big closing last week. You got a bunch in the pipeline. Yeah.

How is your conversation with buyers change since this whole thing has gone down? Yeah. So, as I should say, actually, when I said about going back through the CRM, at the same time that was happening, we then called all the buyers. Because the first week that this actually was happening, we lost, like everyone, people start to pull out deals. So the first thing we did is the acquisitions is sellers. Melissa, for instance, is going right, calling all the buyers. We want to know who's buying, who's not buying, who's like waiting, who's not buying right now, who's buying, how many of the buying,

and so on. So we did that. We qualified everyone that we had and go, right, these select people are buying and ready and want to buy as many as they can. They're the ones we're going to deliver on. So, okay, what areas do they actually want? And then that's how we then started with the follow-up to say, right, well, let's pull it by zip and let's hit everyone in these areas first because we know we can now match them the fastest to do business. And that's kind of what we did. So, yeah, just really asking them simple questions. You know, we have the relationship with the buyers. So it's crazy right now. Can you get funding? Do you have cash? Are you relying on funding? and vetting them.

And some people are, no, I have X amount, you know, one guy had $2 million, sorry. So he's like, I got $2 million ready. With funding in place,

we're good, we're solid, like I'm buying. And then someone else is like, I am buying if I can get funding. So you have to categorize everyone to say, okay,

and put procedures, right, we'll give you this, but you need to know within the next amount of time if they're going to fund you or not. Because you never want to put all your eggs in one basket,

right right what would you say is your percentage from the from the pool of buyers that you had that were the difference between yeses and those um i would say probably about 25% of our act i mean everyone's got a big buy as this but i would say we have like 30 people right and actually buy right in terms of regulars and then on then i'd say we probably send out now you know Yeah, probably 10 people, I would say that are really like, yeah, we're active. And you're picking the new ones up, but I'd say probably 10 out of like 30 that would still be like, yeah, I'm ready to go. And the other 20 are like, absolutely not.

Okay. So you didn't lose that many then? No. Yeah. Yeah. We can still cover pretty much all areas across what we do, which was good. Yeah. There's a certain email that goes out in a marketing sequence that we have for prospective students. And that particular email when they respond to it, it comes back to me.

And I'm interested in what they're saying, just keeping my pulse on my finger on the pulse and what's going through their minds. And one of the common things is people are just making the assumption that nobody's selling and nobody's buying. Bruele. I can't do it now because of the virus. I can't do it because of the quarantine. I'm just like, you're so off base? And I was like, so what made you think that? And then I was a question, I'll be like, so how many sellers did you talk to before you came

to that conclusion? And this was like, well, I haven't picked up the phone because I don't want to bother anybody. It's like, it's interesting. Yeah. And with that, you know, with our acquisition guy, that was one of the first things that we said is, right, people are at home. So you're going to get more people answering. More people are going to get upset.

you're calling. So you have to intercept real quick and put them, not in their place, but do it in a way. So for instance, if you're like, we're in a pandemic. Why are you calling us? And it will be like, look, Matt, I completely agree. But there's a lot of people that need a help right now. It just sounds like you're not one of them people, which I get. But there's a lot of people losing the houses and cannot make payments. And we're looking at buying property. And normally, nine times out of 10, they'll go, oh no, that makes sense, actually, yeah. So do you want to sell Matt? And then if not, again, you're on to the next one.

But that was one of the things that we kind of caught early. But you're exactly right, even with our clients. You know, I talk about doubling down, doing more marketing, not spread, but real focus. Like, okay, active buyers. I have three buyers buying in these five zips. I'm going, firstly, CRM, what leads we got in them? we're calling them all. Next thing,

can I get vacants? We're calling all new vacants for cold calling. And you're literally just narrowing in and making it happen. And like I said, we had a good month because of that. And the good thing is, is all your competition is also having that mindset, a lot of people.

Like, we're done, this is over. Yeah. All right. Well, it's not. So you can definitely get more business stuff for sure. Yeah. I'm friends and you probably know a lot of the same people that run direct mail houses. And they said they lost about like 60% of their business.

I was like, well, that's just 60% of all the investors that just left, right? Yep, absolutely. It's just the opportunity everywhere. And speaking of which, where do you see the big opportunities right now? And what has you, what about the next six months are you most excited about? Yeah. So we do, in Alabama, we do more wholesaling. obviously I do lease options as well

so we cover both ends of a type of deal right now everyone talks about what the market's going to do for me I like to control the things that I can control on a daily basis especially the way that I invest so I'm not a big buying whole guy I'm not a flipper right the wholesale it's the safest way to invest in my opinion

so for us we see the opportunities right now until anything happens the opportunity it's always right now. But we are understanding that it is changing. You know, the sellers are going to be easier. We've seen this before. I wasn't in the crash, but I've been told enough by everyone else. The sellers are going to come easier.

The buyers are going to be coming harder. So make sure you're always got active people. When they run out of money, make sure there's always people behind them, especially for your wholesalers. And then the big thing is for anyone, you know, on the show that listens to this wholesaling, you've got to get into creative finance.

Start learning creative finance from owner finance, lease options, sub-tooth if you like them. I'm not a big fan of sub-tube personally, but any creative finance, if you can start building and learning that, you pretty much have every tool then to ride any recession.

And if you're smart enough low overhead, then I think you'll make more money than you've ever made personally. Sweet. Sweet. So you also coached, So you help people invest in real estate as well. So someone coming to you brand new right now, what's your advice to them? What actions are you telling them to take right now?

First thing that I would say, if they were absolutely brand new, is first analyze the market that they're in. You know, if that's in the middle of downtown San Francisco, I would probably say we're going virtual. Just because of the marketing dollars that's going to be needed, right? So the first thing that analyzed the market, then it would be if we're talking on a wholesale level, I'd be looking for buyers number one. So go and build yourself a buyers list. Go and find out who's actually actively buying right now. Once you've got at least five people active

and find out exactly what their criteria is over what area. So is that county? Is it what zip codes? And I always like to ask, here's a common one that you'll get. Where are you buying? I buy everywhere. Okay. And then you'll find, well, I don't want to buy them.

So what we ask is, is there anywhere that you don't want to buy? And they'll go, yes, these zip codes, absolutely not. They'll buy everywhere else. So we'll eliminate it some way in the criteria. So as soon as we get activity, the next thing then, once they've got at least five, they don't need to get 50 or 100, just get a few people. And then you reverse that, you pull a list, you get on that phone, and you start the process. from that marketing,

talking, sales, making offers, and then follow up, rinse and repeat, keep it simple, and go for it. That's what I would advise.

Very good. It's good. Super. What do you see is the biggest mistake people are making right now or could be making here in the near future?

One of the biggest mistakes you see you've already touched on it is that no one's buying. No one's doing business. Number one is probably the biggest thing I see, the most of the biggest question that I get. So that's a massive mistake because they're absolutely wrong. We could go, I mean, I don't have a fact on this, but I'm pretty confident I can go any market in the United States and you'll find someone buying it. I mean,

it's just a given, right, from any strategy. So I think that one of the biggest things is the mistakes is that. And the other thing is, I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is that everyone is so much focused on lead generation and not follow up. And you will only handpick an odd deal at a high cost of marketing. And everyone's just fill the hopper, fill the hopper, and they have one conversation, don't do a deal, never follow up. And then they do, you know, one in every 300 costing them pretty much, how much they get out of the deal is what they've put in.

So they don't make any money. So really focusing on drip feeding leads, and really making sure the back end is focused on follow-up. That's awesome. I agree with both of those 100%. There's this thing that they say over here. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. Why they say fortune is in the follow-up.

Have you heard of them this saying? Yes. Oh, my guys. It's such a cliche. People just ignore it. But that's where it's at. And everyone's fighting over that 3% that's going to sell to you on that first call

and ignoring the 97% of where all the money's at, right? Absolutely. That's why you can't build a business doing it. Exactly. Exactly. Super. So, Gavin, it's been a pleasure. If someone wanted to get in touch with you,

what would be the best way for them to do that? Get in touch for me. Go to support at reinetwork.com. So you can message me there, support at raignetwork.com. And also I do, I've just started a new YouTube channel under Gavin Tim, so check that out as well. Oh, nice. Gavin Tim's on YouTube? Yes.

That's one thing that the COVID virus has allowed me to do is to bear down on my YouTube stuff. Exactly. Yeah, and I'm doing all the editing and everything. And so all my creative juices are flowing. And it's been fun. And I'm up until 2 in the morning editing. And I was like, what? Are you coming to bed?

I'm almost done. It's a masterpiece. I'm working on this piece of art. Yeah. It's been great. I feel you. I feel yeah. All right, Gavin.

Thanks, buddy. I appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah, likewise. All right. Bye. Bye. All righty.

So if you found this episode valuable, there's a pretty good chance. You might know someone else who would too. And when that person comes to mind, share it with them. And ask them to click the subscribe button when they get here. I'll take good care of them. All righty. That's it for today. God loves you.

So do I. Peace. Health, blessings, and success to you. I'm Matt Dario. Live in the dream. Yeah, yeah, we got the cash flow. Yeah, yeah, we got the cash flow. Yeah, yeah, we got the cash flow.

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