Epic Real Estate Investing - When Your Will is Useless, But Your Trust Is Genius | Diana Khan | 1367

Episode Date: October 19, 2024

In this enriching episode of the Epic Real Estate Investing Show, host welcomes Attorney Diana Khan, a dynamic professional who excels as a lawyer, business owner, community leader, and devoted mother. Join us as Diana shares her fascinating journey—from her initial reluctance to enter law school to becoming a standout in a prominent real estate firm specializing in short sales. Her story takes a pivotal turn as she establishes her own practice, seamlessly integrating estate planning with real estate law to better serve her clients.   Diana dives deep into her innovative strategies for balancing the demands of her multiple roles, offering insights into how she modernizes legal services to make them more accessible and effective. She emphasizes the power of education and mentorship, revealing how she empowers her clients to make informed decisions about their futures.   Throughout the episode, Diana sheds light on the critical importance of estate planning, discussing how setting up trusts can effectively protect assets and ensure a family's legacy. She also explores the socio-economic impacts of current tax policies, highlighting how they can influence wealth distribution and generational prosperity.   With inspiring anecdotes and practical advice, Diana demonstrates her unwavering commitment to creating lasting legacies and promoting generational wealth for families. This episode invites listeners not only to reflect on their own financial futures but also to connect with Diana for mentorship and guidance. Tune in for a transformative discussion that could change the way you think about your investments and family planning!   For more information about Diana and her work, visit https://www.dklawmd.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Let's go. All right, so please help me welcome to the Epic Real Estate Investing. show attorney, Diana, welcome to the show. Hey, guys, thanks for having me. I'm so excited. Hey, us too. I was just reading up on you before we jumped on here. And I just like, wow, you're juggling so many roles. You're a lawyer, your business owner, your community leader, and you're a mom. How do you manage to keep all those balls in the air? Somebody once told me, and I don't know who came up with the quote originally, but you can

juggle tons of balls. You just have to know which ones are plastic and which ones are glass. so that when you do drop a ball, you're only dropping plastic ones. And I thought about that a lot because I always used to like be like, well, my kids have to eat good nutritious food and they have to do this. And there's just some days where now I'm like, you know what, you can have chicken nuggets for breakfast, lunch and dinner. You ate, that's a glass ball. Plastic balls nutrition.

We'll worry about that tomorrow. We'll pick that ball back up. How many kids do you have? I have three. They're six, four, and two. Wow. So the kids are glass balls. The chicken nuggets are plastic balls.

What we're saying. Correct. You got it. Well, good. And you have a dog too. What kind of dog do you? So I wish I could tell you he was like a very angry like dog. He's a chihuahua.

And I am a mom. So I am actually sitting in a corner while my four year old trying to sleep in that corner. And the dog and the four year old don't get along. So it's a lot of fun over here. Join us. Well, we're going to make the best of it. So let me get on your background. And how did you decide to focus on estate planning, real estate and business law?

I actually started a real estate first. I was going to go to law school regardless. And it wasn't because I wanted to be a lawyer. It was more like my mom was like, you know, law school or be a doctor. And I feel like I could have never measure up to my brother who's a surgeon. So I was like, you know what? I'll just go to law school. It's only three years.

Why not? Ended up in short sales. Short sales are, you know, when your home is worth less than in market value. Ended up going to go work for a law firm that was negotiating short sales. Went from being hired to negotiate about 80 years. of them learning short sales took it to about 8,000 in two years. And I started running this firm, which wasn't even lawyers. It was two real estate agents who'd partnered with a lawyer because you needed a lawyer on staff. And I met pretty much, I like to say, any realtor who was

trying to survive in like 2008, you know, doing short sales. And they were unregulated. They had no policies on how to do them. And I just sort of figured it out. And just like anything in real estate, when you piss off a title company and they can't collect $300 on the seller's side for any particular reason, they reported us to the state. And the state came and they were like, we don't know what short sales are. We're going to shut your entire company down and investigate you. Oh, no. And I was like, you can't shut us down. We have 8,000 people who are going to face foreclosure. Like, what do you mean? And state investigated us for three or four months, found out that the owners weren't actually doing anything wrong, just short sales weren't regulated.

We changed the laws in Maryland. We started getting them regulated. But part of that process was, and this is not to talk badly of my employers, but I thought I was making a lot of money doing this for them. And I was sitting in this room with people auditing short sales. And I was sitting there with two realtors who were paying me really well. And, you know, I was sitting with the attorneys from the state. And I was like, I am smarter than all of these people.

And no offense to the guys who are paying me. But they're the business owners. And they're making like six figures of moss negotiating short sales off of like a system. I invented. So went to law school two months later and decided to focus on law. And when I came out of law school, I did the corporate six-figure salary, did all that, hated working for other people and decided to go back to real estate. So I actually started selling real estate before I used my law degree. And then I was the best free paid lawyer in the state because people started talking to me about legal advice. So one thing led to another and I was like,

If I'm going to give you free legal advice, I might as well start charging for it. And then if I'm going to do estate planning and I'm going to do real estate, might as well do title. And then the next thing I knew, I've vertically integrated across seven businesses, staff of over 80 people, you know, a contracting business with a bunch of 1099s and three kids later. And I'm like, how did I get here? I don't know. We're just taking until we make it. I was going to say that, wow, we have so much in common until you got to the seven different businesses and then the three kids.

but I never made a good employee. I always looked at my seniors and my bosses as you're doing it wrong. So I've always done that and had that experience. But I got my start in short sales. And it was very funny because I was in 2006-ish. I was wholesaling properties. I was making $5, $10,000 property. Wasn't that big of a deal.

At least, well, I thought it was at the time. But until short sales came along, then I was doing $50 to $75,000 a deal. And I was like, wow, this is way better. And it was just the irony was when the market just crashed and everybody else, all the other real estate investors were singing the blues. I was like, wow, this is the best thing ever for me at the time. But yep. And then it got regulated and that party ended because they put these deed restrictions in place. And now all of a sudden I couldn't flip them anymore.

Well, you know, I always tell people that if you look around, at least in the state that we're in, anybody who's like a great realtor now and it's very successful, one of their abilities is not because they can sell a lot of realtor. real estate, but because if they were around during the short sale era, they found a way to make money. And it's just that ability to pivot. And now it's like we're at another stage now where people are pivoting. And you're either going to pivot with it and make a lot of money while we all figure it out or you're just not going to cut it. And it's one or the other. Exactly. That's what has me not really concerned about any sort of market shift. I was actually thinking it might be an opportunity or a better opportunity because I knew a lot of competition would leave. But right now with you, what is the main focus? So I do a little bit of

everything. But what I do is when I was a realtor, I was told market like a lawyer, and then I went to law school and started marketing like a realtor. So I sort of do this like big focus of we're vertically integrated, which means that if you buy a house with a realtor that I know, we tell you, hey, we're going to do your will, we're going to protect your wealth and your assets, and we're going to educate you. But it doesn't, I feel like a lot of lawyers just kind of segment into one part. And we do a lot of, it's not just about a house and it's not just about postpartum, you know, depression. it kind of all kind of runs in together. So my vertically integrated business

is sort of focus on everything that has to do with your legacy. And my real big focus is on empowering legacies in real estate, but also in just in your other life. So I do a lot of mentoring, a lot of coaching, a lot of my clients are investors,

and it just pivoted into this whole idea where I'm trying to make law firms more accessible and more 21st century, where it's like you have my cell phone number. I'm not going to bill you $500 because you want to ask me if the EMD should be released on this contract. Like, that's a silly question.

I'm happy to answer that question for you. Got it. So would your ideal customer typically be a homeowner who's selling that house and then the real estate agent brings that person to you and then get to look at all other stuff? So a lot of the time, realtors actually market that they have a partnership with us and they'll refer me the person to go through estate planning.

And it's like, I do free consult, but realtors will say, you know, my attorney will do a free consult because of our partnership. So then what I do is I have a whole marketing platform where I market the people, and I always know that realtor referred me to person. So I do the same thing you guys do, which is like postcards and all of that. The reason I think it's a little bit more powerful is because it's coming from a law firm. And if somebody buys a house and they're going to get a divorce six months later, I'm going to get the phone call over the realtor first. And if their kid gets married, they might need a post-nuptial or pre-nuptial. I'm getting a phone call first.

So realtors sort of work with me in that essence to like refer. for our business and then it kicks back to them every time. Or in the alternative, I also just kind of work with realtors on helping them do more investors and flips and wholesales. And a big portion of that is because I might be a little biased, but I don't think having a traditional real estate license and doing traditional real estate, it's just another nine to five job. Like whether or not you're working for yourself or somebody else, to me, that doesn't create generational wealth. It doesn't create opportunities for you to grow and have a different life than what we did growing up. And I think if you're in real estate and you're not utilizing those tools, you're not doing a good

job. So I really kind of focus on that education piece and teaching people that, you know, I own myself, I own 100 properties and I'm 35 and no matter what I do at the age of 50, I'll be able to retire just on rental income and that's it. And my kids will be good. And if you're not there yet, you should get there. and if you have a real estate license or you're a realtor and you're not utilizing not for yourself, I mean, that's a problem. It's just, you know, you need to learn and utilize the market because you have more availability than most people. It's amazing on how many real estate agents don't even own their own house, their own home.

Yeah. Yep. Right? They're out there being advocates for helping other people do it. I was much older before I ever even realized what estate planning was. It's like a thing. Then I just, like, I didn't have a whole lot of. of interest in it. Kind of like, oh, when people say they're in IT, I'm saying, that's so broad.

To me, it's like, oh, wow. And I've asked so many times, can you explain to me what it is? And they explain to me, and it just, I was like, okay, I'll ask the next person. I'm going to give a chance to it. But can you give me, like, a rough idea or just a summary as to why estate planning is important? It might be very, very basic for you. But I think that would be a really good place to start. So everything you own, right, belongs in a backpack. So in my world, you're born with a backpack. Mine is purple and has sort of seen its worst, so it's sort of ragged. You probably have one too. And in this world that I live in, everything you own goes in this backpack. Now, when you have LLCs or any business or rental income or anything like that, it's essentially

water bottles that are going in that bag. Most people have heard piercing the corporate veil. We've talked a little bit about it to those of who are investors. The visual, The very drastic visual that I can explain is when I'm suing somebody, if you have businesses, if you have liability, all I'm doing is taking a knife and I'm shoving it inside your bag to try to pierce the water bottles. If I get even one hole, water is going to go everywhere. So this bag, first of all, estate planning helps you protect your assets and your liabilities so that they separate so that that water bottle is better protected. So that if you stab, it doesn't leak onto your personal stuff. It doesn't leak onto your binder of clothes or whatever it is you've got in there. And then the second portion is, what happens if you pass away?

I think there's this expectation that we're going to pass away at a later age. And it's the wrong expectation. So I have a client this week. She came into my office, her husband and her. 50, I think she's 53, so he must have been close to her age. Seven-year-old kid. They have 60 rental properties. And they're all in LLCs.

He did everything right. He does not have operating agreements for those LLCs. He'd done zero estate planning. He played tennis with this kid four days ago. He tripped. He fell, hit his head, and he died. Just that simple. And, I mean, he ended up getting taken to the hospital, you know, whatever.

But four days later, she's in my office crying because she can't pay any of her bills because without estate planning, is that LLC. She can't touch any of the money. And she has no idea how to get it. And he died without a will. He died without instructions. And yes, you'll get it eventually. But your family's life continues.

So outside of just lawsuits and protecting from piercing the water bottle, you're not leaving instructions. So when you don't have a will and something happens to you, that backpack gets dropped to the floor. And for your family to get permission to open it, they have to go to the courthouse and determine that they're related to you. And we have to post in a newspaper to allow people to basically state whether or not you can open that backpack. That seven-year-old saw his dad die like four days ago. Like, that's the least of her worries. And she comes into my office and she's like, I don't know how to pay my bills. I just got a notice that one of our LLCs is withdrawn.

And I don't even think it's withdrawn. I just think he moves money around because guess what? It's the beginning of the month. Rent is being paid. There's a lot going in and out. So when you have this bag for estate planning purposes, when you pass away, it drops to the floor. A will only does one thing, which is it gives instructions on who gets the bag and who gets to handle the bag, which is taken to the courthouse. and get permission to open the bag,

pay your debt off, and then eventually your family gets it. You basically give instructions of, you get my stuff. That's it. That's what a will does. Estate planning does it better. It does it with better instructions.

So I'm a big advocate for trusts, and I was always told the trust are for rich people, and I'm trying really hard to change that mentality. The trust are really for smart people. And the reason being is because what a trust is, very simply, is you bring your bag in to my office, office and you're like, I want to do this better for my kids. And I'm like, okay, cool, let's build a new bag. Brand new bag. We're going to build it from scratch. And this bag doesn't belong to you. It actually

belongs to your children or it belongs to your wife or whoever it is that you want to leave stuff to. And it's a gift that you're giving to them today. When we build it, this is a gift you've given it to them. However, while you're alive, you get to keep a gift. And when a triggering of that occurs, such as death or incapacity, that bag will instantly become theirs because it's a gift. And that bag will instantly become theirs because you gave it to them prior to death. So there's no probate, there's no will, there's no speaking to the courthouse, there's no inheritance tax, there's no getting permission from anything. And if you die with debt, your bag is empty. You've put everything into a trust that doesn't belong to you anymore. If you die with a bunch of debt, who's getting that debt?

No one's paid off because it's all in a trust. That trust further allows you to sort of write instructions for businesses. Like if you have a business partner and you want your wife to be taken care of like he did, you could put your LLC to be owned by a trust with specific instructions on how your portion of payments go to your wife or who handles it versus who handles the money that goes to your kids. And then most importantly, if you age and you have a trust and you need to qualify for Medicaid and you're like me, you have 100 properties, you're like, I'm not going to qualify for Medicaid. Why would I want to? And I'm like, well, if you a trust, what's in your bed? Absolutely nothing. From an asset perception, you have nothing in your

bag. So this trust essentially protects you while you're alive. It protects you from liability because if you get sued and somebody pierces that corporate veil, there's nothing in that bag for them to like pierce the water on. And then you give instructions later. And there's substantial tax benefits. Kind of to wrap it up and then I'll let you circle it back. But with a trust versus a will, if you have an investment property, you die with a, you know, investment property, your family's paying capital gains. With a trust, let's say the house is worth $10, you give it to your family, you die, they sell it, they're paying capital gains of $0 because you gave them a gift. If you have it for two, three years after, let's say it's worth $14 now, they're only going to pay capital gains on the

step-up tax basis, which is $4. So it's a substantial tax saving way. And then the last portion is, unlike a will, you get myself. You put specific instructions in it. You can control what happens. So my particular trust says, I have three young kids, and it says if I die and they're under the age of 18, my sister-in-law will raise them, but my brother will handle the money. And my brother is authorized to give 20% of whatever I die with under the age of 18 for their health and wellness and maintenance costs.

20% of my wealth will go to them from 21 to 25 for education. if they do not want to get an education, that's fun. Still their money. Just go work at a bar. Go to Europe, go have fun. I don't care what you do. You're not going to spend 20% of whatever I die with to buy drinks for your friends. To me, that's, go figure out your life.

And then 25 to 35, my kids will get 20% of my wealth to buy their first residents and their investment properties, but they have to qualify for the mortgage on their own. And whatever is left in the trust, at 35, they can do whatever they want with it. So I've just now set up that generational wealth. I like it. That was by far, I think, the greatest explanation I've ever heard. So kudos to you for that one. I was following along with the metaphors.

I, okay, where she's going to go with this? Okay, so the trust is the backpack is locked with a super big lock or something. But then you said the backpack is empty, which I was like, that's even better, right? You can't break anything if there's nothing in there. Right. It's a fantastic way, I think, for people to get this visual of why it's so important. Because if you're in real estate, you need this because you need to protect your assets. You're in a high threshold of liability.

If you have special mood kids, you need it. Because if you die with a will, you leave your kids $10, their special needs, the government's going to look at as income for them. And all of a sudden, you've disqualified them from government benefits that they probably need. So it's just there's a lot of specific parameters we can put in with estate planning. Right, right. You mentioned a few things. You mentioned the government. You mentioned taxes.

And, you know, with all the talk, like where we have this election coming up, a lot of talk about wealth, distribution, and inheritance taxes in this election. How do you see these policies playing out for real estate investors and business owners as they plan their financial futures? So I think, and this is maybe a very, like, horrid belief, but I think for the most part, all the policies that we see socially economically don't impact that middle class, right? It's like the higher class is either going to just get really impacted or the lower. But one thing is for sure, while I don't know where it's going to go, is that you should have a trust, right?

Because guess what? 98% of celebrities, 98% of politicians, they all have trust and trust laws. While they do change, I will tell you that they're the most protected pieces of the law that I see. And there's a reason because the people who want to protect their stuff have a trust. I will tell you very openly, wills are public knowledge. So if you died today and you die with a will, I can look you up and I can look up what you're worth,

everything you owned, what was in your bank accounts. If you try to look up any single celebrity that died in the last 15 years, you will not find a public probate process for them because nobody actually who is in charge of our future and is making these policies is putting their stuff in private

because if you're following a different set of laws, is you're more protected. So I think for realtors, especially with policies changing the way that they are, I do think we're going into a more litigious future because I think people are trying to figure out what they're doing. And I do think we're also going to go into a situation where how much you're making is going to be taxed a lot higher. And if your DTI is great, but you have a bunch of assets, it's going to be taxed different.

So again, get some investment properties and maybe protect that capital gains. Got it. My next question, my follow-up question was to that, what should people be doing regardless of who does win, right? What can they do to prepare? And maybe there's no changes or maybe there's a bunch of changes. But you kind of said it. Like it's starting a trust, right? Yep.

I think regardless of who wins, there's a few things that I always say with any kind of change economically is what the worst of your dollar is going to change. So if you're putting your money in a savings account, you're not doing that much with it. I always say now's the time to invest, whether or not you're investing in real estate or you're investing something else. Land is immobile, land is not moving, put money into it because no matter what happens with policy, if you don't like what happens next month, you're going to like what happens in two years. And that's a really good way to sort of protect that value, whereas everything else is going to change. I mean, I throw this not relevant, but I throw this big party every year for my clients. And last year, I had 250 people quoted for food, and the quote was $8,000.

And I just got the quote today. And my staff came up to me, and they were like, we ordered the exact same thing, the exact same head count. It's $16,000. What do you want to do? And I was like, it's been 12 months. I want to increase my prices is what I want to do. But Diana, we're at 2% at the CPI.

How could it go 100%? Right, exactly. Like, what is going on here? That's great. I have this thing, like, forgive the CPI index or the consumer price index. I'm always talking about the Subway Sandwich Index. We used to have the $5 foot long, and now it's a $6.49, 6 inch, right? There you go.

There you go. I don't care what the CPI is. I care what costs me on a daily basis. Do you need to have some assets to start a trust, or could you start it just right away and be prepared for whatever happens or is that overdoing it? genuinely it's cheaper to have it the less assets you have. I mean, I have people who come to me who, you know, are like me and have 100 properties and I got to tell you that's like a year plan. It's a lot of planning. It's a lot more expensive. If you don't have a lot, it's actually ends up being cheaper to kind of price it out. I will tell you that I've done probate. I do probate for a

living and I do trust for a living. It's the same cost. If you are a family of like if you have a spouse, it's you and your spouse and you want to set up an estate plan, it's going to cost you exactly the same. if I do a trust versus if your family pays me for probate. The only difference with probate is they're grieving you. You're going to take two years and they're going to pay me over the course of time. That's the only difference. Got it. So who is your ideal client?

So I have two right now. The first ideal client is anybody who wants to do it better. I grew up really poor. I didn't know much. And I've had to figure it out a lot. So my law firm is all about taking those people who are not the rich or famous, right? But they have a little bit of a nest egg where they just want to. do it better than they did, you know, their family did. And I feel like there's, at least with

internet and the way things are evolving, we have an opportunity for education so much more. And the lawyers of the world and the real estate industry, you know, moguls and investors, we're all trying to teach you. So anybody who wants to get better, like, that's an ideal client for me, because whether or not we're talking about holding companies or LLCs or we're talking about investing in money or we're talking about how do you build that generational wealth, if you have an open mind and you sort of say, well, what are other people doing that we're not doing yet? My goal is to make it attainable and more accessible for people who previously didn't have it available. Trust are not for rich people. They're for smart people. So do it at any point. Start planning.

And then I think my second ideal plan is just same thing. People who want to do it better, but if you want to learn, because I do mentorship and I do coaching, and I talk a lot about life architecture. What is your life now? Where does it want to? be and how do you get there? And it's not values play a very big portion of that. I don't think you and I have the same values. So if we do the same exact thing, it's not going to lead to success. And I tell people, be a president, don't be a delegate. And that's a really weird statement, but I tell my employees all the time, if you Google how to be a politician, there is like, what, like, 400 delegates and they change like every two, three years. So when you Google how to be a politician, you're going to get what's common and what the track path and the career goals of a delegate are because that's considered higher up than your local, whatever legislator is playing,

and that's kind of the goal. But if you want to be a state senate, there's only 100 of them. If you want to be a president, there's only 42. You're not Googling how to be a president because it's so unlikely for you to happen. And when I'm mentoring people, I always tell people, if you go to Google and you say how to be a politician, you're going to get the answer where 400 other people are doing it every two years. That's success. That is absolute success.

But whatever you're doing in your life, be a president. Don't worry about what other people are doing. Where do you want to be and how do you become that president in that aspect? And I think that that's a really good think point for people because I think we look around and try to figure out how to be successful by figuring out what other people are doing. I feel so stupid asking this question, but I'm going to ask it because I don't know the answer. When you said how to be a president, you said there's only 40, two of them. I didn't get the 42.

It's 45. It's 45. 45. Oh, there's been 45. Okay, got it. Yes. I just, I'm tired. I have kids. Might be 46 now. I didn't grow up with the U.S. I was like, I only know of one president, but you mean a lot of all time. Right. And they've been around for like what? Like, how long has the U.S. been around? So like, you're not getting an answer on how to be a successful president. When you think about that mentality, it changes your mindset.

Because when I Google how to be a successful lawyer, well, I hired my first employee, it was like, well, have your employees pick up the phones. And I was like, I pick up phones. I'm very good at phones. I sell on phones. And I was like, I'm not going to listen to Google. I'm going to do what I did. And you know what? A year later, I had like 40 employees. And there's a reason that works. Got it. All right. I got that. I don't feel it was dumb anymore. Well, now you called me out on how many presidents there are. So that, that didn't even bother me. That was, whether you got the number right or wrong, that part didn't bother me. So I didn't know this about you. So who's the ideal

mentee? Is it fellow attorneys or is it everyday citizens? So I think it's multipreneurs. I think that's what I'm trying to hit. People who are trying to be multiproeners. I think the threshold to be an entrepreneur is a lot easier now. I don't. I meet people sometimes

and they're like, oh, I'm an entrepreneur and I'm like if you bake cookies at home, like, what do you do? So the multipanors, the multiple income stream people, the people who are trying to change the trajectory where they're not working a typical nine to five's job and they're, you know, how do I vertically integrate my life? How do I invest in money? It's people who want to take what they've built up and sort of divided it, whether or not it's

an investment in real estate, which is what I feel comfortable with, or I don't know, you want to do something on like for you pages. I don't know. Like whatever it is that you're doing, that's a business too, right? Like, you know, for you, tender, all that stuff, TikTok, people are making money off of it. I've no idea how to do that. I'm not good at it. But if you've got that going on and then your TikTok is feeding it to seven other businesses. I want to mentor you. I want to talk about how is it successful? How can you do it and not lose those values and be okay dropping those plastic balls and recognizing what's a plastic ball and what shouldn't even be juggled. Got it. I love it. So if someone wanted to reach out to you, what would be the best way for them to do that?

Just shoot me a text. My cell number, 443, 739, 6-724. And yes, that is my. my actual cell phone number. No, I do not have two numbers. That is my cell phone number. Text me two in the morning. Tell me you heard me on this podcast. I will happily help. I'm sure the podcast will also tag my website. It's dK.Lawm.m.D.com. But really, there's no red tape. Like, you can call me on my cell and I've got my kids screaming in the background. I will pick up and you will hear them. That's awesome. 443-739-6724. You've got it. Diana, this has been an absolute pleasure. for joining us. Let's stay in touch and let's do an update soon. I love it. Thank you for having you. You bet. Take care. And that wraps up the epic show. If you found this episode valuable,

who else do you know that might too? There's a really good chance you know someone else who would. And when their name comes to mind, please share it with them and ask them to click the subscribe button when they get here and I'll take great care of them. God loves you and so do I. Health, peace, blessings and success to you. I'm Matt Terrio. Living the dream. This podcast is a part of the C-suite radio network. For more top business podcasts, visit c-sweetradio.com