Epic Real Estate Investing - Wholesale Automation with Todd Toback | Episode 139

Episode Date: January 5, 2015

Today Matt is interviewing rock star wholesaler, Todd Toback, the host of the No Limits Real Estate Investing Podcast.  Learn how Todd’s company wholesales 10-20 properties each and every month, all without his direct daily involvement!  Plus get an update on Matt’s experiment with virtual wholesaler, Lisa Nilson. ------- The free course is new and improved!  To access to the two fastest and easiest strategies to a paycheck in real estate, go to FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com or text “FreeCourse” to 55678. What interests you most? E ducation P roperties I ncome C oaching Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Broadcasting from Terrio Studios in Glendale, California. It's time for Epic Real Estate Investing with Matt Terrio. Yeah. Hello. And welcome. Welcome to Epic Real Estate Investing. This is the place where I show people how to escape the rat race using real estate. Happy New Year to you.

I think it's going to be a great one. And I'm starting it off with a great show today. and before I get started on that show, though, seats are filling up for a January 17th Grub and Grow Rich event. If you're in the San Francisco area around January 17th, I would love for you to come out. I would love to meet you. Go to Grub and Grow Rich.com to reserve a seat or two. Each ticket includes all you can eat, all you can drink, and all the real estate

questions that you can ask. And in the beginning, I'll host a short workshop on how to mitigate risk from your real estate investing. And then after that, boom, it's open forum. Also, this will be the premiere of the epic inner circle mastermind of which will be basically the meeting before the meeting. And you'll find information for that at grub and grow rich.com also. Now, if you are an inner circle coaching client, both events are free for you. And speaking of inner circle coaching, several months ago, I had on the show my friend Lisa Nilsson,

which was helping me out with a virtual wholesaling experiment. I know a lot of you have kind of checked in on that to see what was happening and what the progress was there. And admittedly and shamefully, I guess you could add on to that was, we both just lost focus on that actual experiment. I mean, other aspects of my business and other aspects of her business has kind of gotten away. You know, how life is. Life seems to push its way in and cause a disruption every now and then. So, you know, you're forced to prioritize things and we just kind of let that thing slide and we kind of forgot all about it. And, you know, that's what happened. We've got all the great stories and all the great excuses, but none of that really matters.

That's just what happened. And honestly, I had forgotten all about it. But when I opened up my new Inner Circle coaching program in November, I was actually quite surprised when I saw an order come through. And that order was from Lisa. And she had signed up for my one-on-one coaching for the whole year. And I was surprised because Lisa and I were good friends. And, you know, it was kind of shocking.

to see a friend's name, someone who you were friends with before real estate had come through and it just, it shocked me. But I think that says a lot about her and what she's up to and how important this is for her. And I was considering refunding her money and then just coaching her anyway, just to basically pick up where we left off and to finish up what we had started several months ago. But, you know, then I got to thinking. I was thinking about all of the past clients and friends that have pleaded to my heart. and where I gave in and scholarshiped them into either the academy or one-on-one coaching

or, you know, a number of the various services and products that we offer over here. And I think back of all those people where I just kind of gave them stuff. And you know what? Not one of them. They haven't done a thing. In fact, I don't think I've heard from any of them since. And on the other side of that, my clients that have paid the most for coaching with me have experienced the greatest success.

I mean, we've had Brad out of St. Louis on him the show a couple times, Brad out of Cleveland, Jill out of Houston, Tom out of St. Louis, Chris out of Wisconsin, Priscilla out of Memphis, and that list actually goes on for a minute. And so when I followed up with Lisa after she had signed up, just about a little over 30 days ago, I had told her basically, you know, the whole story that I just told you. And I told her that I was going to do her a favor. And I was going to keep her money and coach her in the exact same way I've coached all of my paid coaching clients.

And you know, and just today, we had a coaching call and I wanted to play a little snippet of it for you. Okay. Okay. So basically how many, I know you said that usually you have, like you talk to 60 people and you close the deal or I know you said sometimes it's between 30 and 60 depending on Audit City or California. So what do you think?

Like I'm getting pretty close, right? You're really close. You sent 33 offers. Yeah. I presented 33 offers and only two people. people said yes. I have a few people that said that they're going to talk to their husband or wife and get back to me.

Do you think that I should follow up with them or just if you're- Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing is you sent out 33 offers. You got two people to say yes. You just presented a couple other scenarios to me. You just didn't know how to answer those questions. So out of your 87 leads, you've got two, I would say you got three deals in there. I think once you do this a few times, you probably had four or five in there.

You just didn't know it. Got it. This is where I was saying, like, your numbers are going to be a little off as you're going through the learning process. But the more you do this, the more conversations we have like this, and the more questions I answer for you, and the more that you learn and know what to do in each situation, the better your numbers are going to get. But you are right on track.

You've got two yeses inside of 87 leads. That's perfect. Yeah. It's absolutely perfect. I talked to him like Christmas Eve or whatever, and he was like, okay, I'm not interested. And I was like, okay, well, I'll make. you a copy of the offer. He was like, okay, Matt, he totally said he was not interested.

So I'm like, oh, you know, I'll just, I'll mail out, you know, offers to everyone, you know, after Christmas, whatever. And so he literally called me back. He's like, hey, he's like, I was looking for your offer in the mail and I haven't got it yet. I was like, oh, okay, I'm sorry. The holidays got me in away. Exactly, exactly. I was not going to see you weren't interested. So, so Lisa, these 33 offers that you presented that people said no, but you sent them anyway?

Yeah. Some of those are still going to come back to you. Yeah, totally They are still going to come back to you They just might not be in the next 30 days But they're going to come back in, you know, three months Because they're going to get something else from a Something else is going to happen in their life where they're like, oh, I wonder if this offer is still good

Or some other investors going to call them and offer them a really crappy price And then they're going to like yours better Yeah, no, absolutely You know what I mean? I trained that right away. So as soon as he called me, I was like, Matt's right Once we get, you know, you're only 30 days into this, maybe even less Yeah

You know, once you have this consistent activity of writing 33 offers in 30 days, even if it was 60 days, it's an offer every other day. Once you do that, once you hit month four, five, and six, all that stuff starts overlapping. And all of a sudden you got two deals from your marketing. You got a deal from the offers you sent out last month. You got another deal from the offers that you sent out two months ago. And you got another deal based off the offers you set out three months ago. Like it starts compounding, you know. so you just got to be consistent with the activity and the results will get consistent.

But right now you are in the building process of generating leads to generate deals. Right. But as long as you keep submitting the offers, it'll build up and it'll come back to you. Okay, perfect. But consistency is the key. You're welcome. Thank you. Jay, did you have anything, honey?

No, that was great. So that was our call just today. And I'm going to have her back in the studio as soon as she closes one of those deals. I mean, it's pretty amazing how. accurate the numbers can be. I mean, in the last 30 days, she's sent out 1,000 postcards. She's made contact with 87 of the people that she sent the postcards to. She's written 33 offers, and she has had two accepted. And based off the part of the conversation that you just heard, I have no doubts that she's got another two or three deals coming at some point from the 33

offers that she's written. You know, as long as she stays consistent with her activities, the deals that come from what are seemingly dead offers or no deals there, they're going to begin to snowball. And she'll be doing deals a year from now from offers that she wrote today, guaranteed. That's how it works when you're consistent with your activities. It takes a little moments or a minute to build. It takes a while to build. But once you've got momentum in your business, once you're being consistent and steady with

the right activities, the money-making. activities, it gets much easier to keep the machine moving. It's kind of like, you know, a jet taking off. When a jet is taken off, it is expending a considerable amount of energy and burning a considerable amount of its fuel on the takeoff part. And it continues to burn that fuel as it increases and rises in altitude. But once it gets up to that cruising altitude, it can let off the gas a little bit. And it can just kind of let the wind take it, or however that works, however the dynamics or the physics of the plane works, but I know they use a lot less energy, a lot less fuel up there at their cruising altitude than they do when they're actually taking off.

And that's just how this business works as well. So with all that said, I'm very pleased thus far with Lisa's results. I mean, it's been less than 30 days, I believe. And as long as she stays consistent with her activities, she will be a success. It can't be any other way. Steady actions produce steady results. And I've got some other superstars on the rise out of the Inner Circle coaching program. I'll be introducing you to them very soon. I've already got them lined up, so look for them in the next couple weeks or so.

And, oh, it's not too late either, by the way, to get in on that program. I actually have two spots left over from our end of the year closing of that program. It is officially closed, but I do have two spots left. So if this sounds like it's for you, go to epicprocoaching.com,

epicprocoaching.com and grab one of those last two spots. All righty. Now, I can't wait to introduce you to my guest today. Someone I met about a year ago. I've gotten to know him pretty well and met him through my mastermind group. And I've learned so much from him already. Just in casual conversation. I mean, he's pretty amazing.

And one thing that I find extraordinary about him is that he's been able to completely remove himself from his wholesaling business. I mean, for those of you that have a business or building a business, you know what's involved and how much of your time is involved to get that up and running and get it going. and, you know, the fact that he's moved, or removed himself from that business, it really is nothing less than extraordinary. I'm really impressed, and, you know, he's just an impressive dude. He does more than 10 deals a month. He's right between 10 and 15 deals a month in one of the more competitive markets in the country. And it takes just a few hours a week of his time.

And I'm going to introduce to him in 30 seconds right after this. Real estate investors, you need to know this. If you do not have a lead capturing website, A recent study reveals that you are invisible to 90% of the people that want to do business with you. We are Epic Real Estate Websites.com, and we have an easy three-step solution for you. Step one, select a design. Step two, choose your domain name. Step three, check out.

Boom! You are now online capturing the names, emails, and phone numbers of people that want to do business with you. Go to Epic Real Estate Websites.com. Act now, and your domain name is free. So on the phone, I have one of the more talented wholesalers I've ever met. I'd say one of the more talented wholesalers in the entire country. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce him to you. Mr. Todd Toback, welcome to Epic Real Estate Investing.

Thank you, Matt. Excite to be here. Yeah, I'm excited to have you. We've been talking for a while, and I can't believe it's taking us this long to get on the air together. Well, that's going to kick off the new year, so time to take some action. Indeed, indeed. Yeah, I want to talk about what you're going to be doing. doing for the new year and what type of action you are going to be taking.

But first, just kind of share with me a little bit about your background on how you got started in real estate. Sure, Matt. Well, I started like a lot of other people, probably started, and that was back in 2000. I was working at a job that I absolutely hated. Shortly before there, I drove back to California. I was originally from New York, went to college in Michigan. And those of you who know anything about the Midwest, it's no every day on the west side of Michigan.

again from sometime in October all the way, almost until May. I mean, a little bit of an exaggeration. But, you know, one day I just got so tired out of that. I said, you know what? I'm going to pack up my car. I had a 1989 Mercury Cougar. I took my 10-year-old Black Labrador Retriever at the time. And I drove out to California.

This went west. And I had all these dreams of, you know, being on the beach and enjoying the sun and the sand and being free because all my friends were getting jobs. And I was like, you know, I just don't want that, right? I don't want to sit here and make $40,000 a year and act like that with a huge victory for me. Right. So I got out here, I realized it was expensive to live, and I got a job initially selling alarms door to door. I had no money, by the way, at this point.

I was living off my credit card. And we were in this band selling ADT alarms to this local community in Poway. And there was this one lady who was just cleaning up selling all the money. these alarms. And I was there for about three weeks, then. And I was in the back of the car, and I think I was about 21. And I was complaining to everyone. I was like, oh, this product

stinks. And, you know, no one's going to buy these. And this is a rip-off. And all of a sudden, I hear from the back. The lady who was selling all the alarms, and it was Cat. And she goes, as soon as you stop blaming everybody else, that's when you'll be successful.

And boy, I tell you what, I didn't take a well at the time. But that was like my first push into, you know what, I've got to take full accountability here for my actions. And that stuck with me. And so I knew that I had to get good at sales. I had to get good at marketing. And so when I got a job with Pfizer pharmaceuticals, I was selling Viagra, actually, of all things. And I was thinking that this was my key to success. So I had this job and one of the great things about working for Pfizer was I really learned how to sell, right? They put me through a lot of training programs and I was soaking it all up and, you know, I just learned how to talk to people and negotiate and, excuse me,

uncover needs, which was great, but the problem was I was still working for somebody else. I'm just curious, what does it, how does the sales training work? What's, what's the magic close when you're selling Viagra? Well, I know you've heard of this joke before, but you know, I really don't have an answer except for sales were always up in the competition. Yeah. But one of the things that I take from when I was selling Viagra was, you know, a lot of people, they're in the market. They're always trying to compete for the same business, right?

And so right now there's a few competitors to Viagra. But one of the things that we've always done is we used to try to expand the business, right, a different way of looking at it. So instead of fighting with the doctor to prescribe your particular drugs, why not you just get him to prescribe more of those class of drugs? And the byproduct of that would be more sales. Does that make sense? But, you know, in reality, I was there for a few years, and there was one time where I say, hey, you know what, I'm going to ask my boss for a rate. By the way, at this point, I wasn't a particularly great sales rep at the time.

or I haven't done anything lately to really deserve this rate. And I basically asked 50% more money. And he was like, you know what, I'm not going to be able to do that. You don't understand how the corporate world works. There's a lot of red tape, and it's not going to happen, although I'd like to. I just can't do it. And so I drove home a little embarrassed, a little humiliated. I also knew a lot of it was my fault because I perhaps wasn't adding the value that I needed to get that money, Matt.

But neither to say it kind of pushed me over the edge. I'm driving home on the highway, and I see a Barnes & Noble bookstore on the right hand side, and something said pullover, man. And I remember I was about three lanes away from the exit, and, of course, I do what every other, you know, mail at this age does, and I basically pulled over the three lanes of traffic, and everyone honking their horn and give me the finger, and somehow I made it to Barnes & Noble, ended up in the big section, picked up a book called Multiple Streams of Income by Robert Allen. Allen, yeah.

And 40 days later, I did my first deal, right? And I remember the strategy that I used to get that deal, Matt, was, it said, hey, you got to find the out-of-state owners. So for those of you who are new to real estate investing, I understand this, one of the some of the best motivated sellers are people who own property locally where you live, but they live out of the area. And so what I had to do, Matt, was go down. down to the county courthouse in Santa Barbara.

I was living in a small hotel called Carpenteria at the time, not too far from you. And, you know, there was no list providers then. You know, first American title was just starting to basically be able to pull down online. And so I had to go down there and open up this big book, and we're blowing dust off of it, finding everyone who lived out of state in the condo complex that I lived in. So I got about 40 names. I handwrote them all.

And I remember the envelope was actually really, small for the letters. I had like folded three times to get it in and they're all luffy, which is great for direct mail. And I sent out 40 letters. And I got one phone call out of 40. And it was a motivated seller mat. And they were, they lived in Bakersfield, California. And they just weren't using the property anymore. And we agreed to need a one week. And so I remember the whole entire week I was like totally stressing out. And I don't know what I was going to do. And I don't have any contract. But I was going to make it happen. And so we sat down to negotiate. I knew that the fixed-up condos were selling for about $380, $390.

And we met there. I negotiated a price of $280,000. And we pretty much wrote it up on a sheet of paper, no contract, but it's basically like a sheet of paper to tell escrow what to do. So we called escrow. And the only problem here, Matt, was I had heard of a double-close, didn't really understand how it was going to work. You know, I didn't talk to enough title companies.

to really, you know, get an idea. By the way, if you are listening to this, you can easily do double-closes of the time of the contract. But I was too lazy at the time to, or I didn't have the knowledge to call a million different title companies. I just had one person tell me no. Right. So I started calling everybody for money, right?

And everybody was saying, no, right? No, I'm not going to fund this. And there's no way that you could have gotten a property to cheat. What's the catch? What's the catch? Except my brother-in-law. And so he agreed that he'd fund the deal. We split it 50-50.

We bought the house. He got a traditional loan for 20% down. And three days after we closed, we had it sold to a cash buyer for $385,000. And that was my first deal. I took home after closing cost about $40,000. So I was like so excited. I was jumping up and down and I was, you know, just on top of the world, Matt. You know, the problem was what I learned from it was I don't.

I need a partner, right? I could have just double-closed it or done an assignment, had I had a little bit more education and, you know, been a little bit more persistent in a finding a title company who would have done it. So, you know, I was in my job for a couple more years, and I always, it's funny, I always tell people that a base salary is BS because it makes you soft. If you've got a job, I should have put my job right then and there, right, and gone full-time in real estate, but I didn't quit my job for another three and a half years until I was at a point where I'm like,

I can't stand what I'm doing on a day-to-day basis. You know, I've got to make a change. And so I'd probably be a lot farther in my real estate career today would I quit my job right in and there instead of waiting for three years. Right. Right. So here you are. Here you are. Here you are.

So here I am. Over the past, you know, since 2000, we've grown our business to, basically from that first house, doing between 10 to 15 deals a month, and we're 100% wholesaling operation. We have a team of people who go out and negotiate our deals and wholesale them to cash buyers who buy them. And it's an I sell operation from all the way to that first time I was at that county courthouse, you know, finding those first motivated sellers. Right, right. You know, it's funny that some of the things that you touched on,

why do you, well, I guess you didn't know any better. If there weren't any list services, but you still had to go out and find a list, the Internet hadn't really advanced to the state it is right now where you had access to that type of information. You didn't have a contract. You had people everywhere you turned were telling you know you couldn't do it, but you still pushed through. What was it that pushed you through when so many other people, you know, go,

I don't know which list service to you so they don't try it all. Or I don't have the right contract and so they don't try it all. Or this person told me no, so it doesn't work. What do you tell people that experience that and give up so quickly? Well, the funny thing is I learned this from my dad because he owned various businesses growing up, right? And, you know, I saw, you know, him sell everything from cemetery lots to magazine subscriptions to, you know, to these specialized credit cards for people with that credit. But he kind of always beat to his own drum, right? And he says, God, just do the opposite of everybody else and you'll be fun.

I love that. So that was the first thing. But the other thing was, you know, just reading and educating yourself, like, you knew it was possible. right and so like even that book multiple streams of income it's funny like back now when i read it i'm like oh my gosh this is the most amazing book in the world and now i look back on it now and i'm like well there wasn't that i'm really hard concrete information of that book but it got me started right um and getting you to a place where you're like no this is possible i'm going to find a way to make it happen um versus you know just giving up and and withering and it's funny because as we bring

people on our team we're always training them uh you know look you can't You can't give up at the first sign of adversity, right? You have to make it happy. You have to create opportunity because it's not going to come to you. Indeed. Indeed. You know, and you made $40,000 on that first deal. And from the time you read the book to the time you close a deal, how long did that take, do you think, roughly?

You mean, until I, between the time that I... You know, you read the book and you decided this is what you're going to do, and you sent out the marketing. So from the marketing to the close... Well, here was the key. I read that book, and I could not stop reading it. Right. I mean, Matt, I remember I had this couch that I bought from the Salvation Army. And by the way, you're listening, nobody ever did that. It's generally a bad idea.

I'm not even going to ask why. Yeah, I read that whole thing in one night, and I think that was like on a Saturday or Sunday that I finished it, and I was at the county recorders on that Monday. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I took action right away and rarely do good ideas. I found this, is that yes, you want to be a plan or, yes, you want to be strategic, but if you get a good idea, you usually have to take action on it right away. There's nothing good is going to happen from waiting.

Nothing's going to change. The only thing that's going to creep in is fear and logic. And, well, I would say that fear always distort logic, right? So initially is that all your logic that you've developed by reading these books and hearing these things and listening to this podcast, it's all there, right? And you're here. And the only thing that can destroy that, it's fear.

So the point is don't want time for fear to creep out. Right. You've got to act before the fear presents itself because it will. And logic is great way. When people rationalize themselves out of opportunities every single day, you know, they just did a whole episode on that very fact. So that's interesting that you brought that up. So from the time you took action right away,

Love it. And to the time you closed your deal, what was that time frame, do you think? I would say it was probably 60 days until we actually got the money. Okay. So two months? Two months and 40 grand. Yeah. Got it. Failure.

So, awesome. Okay, so here's the next question I have for you, is that, you know, it took you a few more years before you actually quit your job and took this on full time. If you were good to go back and talk to that person that closed $40,000 deals but still decide to stay at their job for the next three years, what would you tell that person? Number one, you're not serving the world by playing small. Two is that don't let your job keep you complacent, right? So sometimes I did a series with my brother. It was called 90 Days Do or Die.

and I had a brother who basically he was bankrupt and he just lost his job and he had like no other choice. And it was like I felt like he, you know, had more long-term success faster than I did because he didn't have something to fall back on. And so I guess my advice to me would be don't let your current situation, your mediocrity, right, keep you complacent. That's what I would say to myself because that's what it did to me. Kind of along the lines of the enemy of great is good. Yeah, or good is the enemy of great, however that goes. Much better. Yeah, yeah, I can certainly relate.

You know, cool. So I want to talk about your business and how you run it today because I think you have a really unique way of doing it. You've been able to completely remove yourself from your business, which I just find fascinating, and I want to talk about how you do that. But I know you do a lot of marketing. You're really great at creating leads for your team. So I want to touch on that in just a minute.

And yeah, we'll do that right when we come back. Listen, when it comes to your financial future, I've got some good news, I've got some bad news. The good news is you can make a million bucks in real estate. The bad news is there are a million ways to do it. Which strategy do you choose? Picking the right one can be a problem. The new book, Epic Freedom, is your solution. Get a free copy at free epicbook.com.

Epic Freedom, the two easiest and fastest strategies to a paycheck in real estate. estate, go to free epicbook.com, free epicbook.com. All right, so we're talking to Todd Tobac. And Todd, you've got a full-time wholesale operation. You're doing 10 to 15 deals a month. And one thing that you shared with me recently is that you're looking at some other opportunities because you've managed to completely remove yourself from your business. And I just think that's awesome.

So when you make that first step, I mean, just kind of bring me to the first time, you know, I guess there was a point where you were running this. business all by yourself. And so what was the first thing you delegated? And just kind of worked me all the way up as quickly as you can, but thoroughly also to the point where all of a sudden Todd was no longer needed. Sure. Well, the first thing that I delegated was I brought on an admin assistant.

And this was, I think, key for me because sales and marketing is going to be very, very important. It's the lifeblood of your business. I do recommend that you bring on help in that area. But the number one thing that you have to make sure that you're doing as a do-it-best or if you're trying to grow is to keep selling. I'm going to repeat that. Keep selling. Don't stop, right?

Because all of a sudden people are not like, I'm going to take over the world, and they do everything. But talk to motivated sellers. So if you're going to hire somebody, and this is what we did is we brought an administrative of assistant who did every single portion of the business except talk to sellers on the phone, right? They went and they opened up the mail in my office. They paid the bills. They did the bookkeeping.

They answered this escrow call. And so everything that we could think of, I basically threw the kitchen sick at them. And when you first get started, you can also have them do things like pick up your dry cleaning. and I don't know about, you know, my wife had some honeydews initially. And by the way, when you first get started, you can expand this role, right? I also have them, like, as kind of a personal assistant, and that's really, really helped if I was out meeting with motivated sellers. And that was the first thing that I did.

Now, if you, if I had to go change this at the time, from day one, I would have them start to all document all the processes and systems that they do on a daily basis, right? If they're going to get you a cup of coffee, which, you know, some of you, may not have a personal system that does that. Or pick up your dry cleaning. Have them write a sheet of how you like your dry cleaning done, where to go pick it up, right, and where to put it when they're done. Right.

And if they do that once, you're never going to have to train anyone how to do that again. Right. If you have to sign some escrow documents, right, how and when they're supposed to be presented to you, what they need to highlight beforehand, and what days you sign those things. And so I would start with that process with someone who's going to create those processes and systems for you, and a good administrative assistant can do that. If you're like me, you hate sitting down and creating a system and a process of the way that you do things. Totally. And it's probably not going to get done if you have to do it.

So I would plan on creating that person to document everything you do besides sale and money. Okay. So then from there, what was that you just start dividing her, her, her, his or her stuff up. Right. So the next thing that I would do is I'd keep that administrative assistant, right, making sure that I'm selling as much as possible. At this point, I'm going to increase my marketing a little bit. Okay, so if you, I know a lot of people who are just got started who actually don't,

and this is almost subconsciously, where they sabotage their own business because they don't want to answer the phone. Right. And so the biggest thing is if you're refined yourself at that point, well, you're going to have to hire a salesperson. So what I would do at this point is I would hire a salesperson to help you handle some of those leads. You want to make sure that the marketing is coming in. So you've got to have a plan on how many calls that they can handle per day and bring them on. So when you have that person on, and again, if you're just a one-person operation, I remember my first salesperson was Brian. and he came in and Matt, we had like no training systems, you know, no documented processes for sales,

but I basically just lived with him for the next big month, right? And I answered calls and we role played. We worked on challenges together or we did a three-way call, whatever it was. We made it happen. And so I would recommend that hiring a salesperson is probably one of the best things that you can do for your business if you want to expand it. because answering phone calls is amazing and it's a great way to generate business. But if you're trying to do other things, you've got to have help in that area. Right, right.

You're spending a lot of time working in your business when you as the owner probably be spending time working on your business, right? And then? So the next point, and by the way is I really like to push the limits, right? I like to see how much we can do. You don't want to over-hire, especially when you're getting started, right? So at this point, now you've got somebody picking up properties. for you. We have an administrative assistant who is also acting as our transaction coordinator, right? And we first got through now I'm still handing the marketing, and now I'm also selling

my property. But at this point, I actually also had my administrative assistant almost trying to sell the property. So again, you don't want to like, you can divide and conquer, but see how far you can push it, right? And then also have that administrative assistant take on that role for a while so that she can document all the processes and systems. I also like everyone to be cross-trained so that if somebody leaves, right, or you have to let somebody go, well, someone can step in, and now your life isn't a total, you know, total chaos, right? You want to build a strong foundation not on a house of cards, and I learn that the hard way. So once you have a person set up, you can either have your salesperson actually sell your properties for you. You can

continue to do that, but you're also going to get someone to sell your property. And so that's what we have. We have someone who moves all of our stuff in house. And that's a third person. Now we've got one other person who we brought up, Matt, who I call a general manager. Some people call them the C-O-O or sometimes they call them the integrator. But this person basically can do every single job in the company. They are the replacement of me. Right?

And so they handle problems. They can handle us. They can sign escrow docs. They manage all the salespeople. They manage the administrative assistant. And we've actually, ironically, moved that administrative assistant over to two full-time VAs who do a great job. And so he handles them. And so basically he is Todd's replacement.

And so every system and process is either documented by him or documented for him by another team member. And he basically makes sure that all those are done and followed on the day. daily basis. Super. So what's there left for you to do? Are you involved? In what capacity are you involved in your wholesale business still? Well, there's a great book called Traction.

And it gave me a lot of validation. I don't know about you, Matt, but it was like I felt like I had all these ideas and everyone was telling me growing up and in college, and even after I got married, like, I was still scattered, right? And all of a sudden I'd start all these projects and I wouldn't finish them, you know, and it was like I was this ball of fire. then after a few, you know, a short period of time, I'd kind of lay out. Can you ever relate to that?

Right, this very second. Right. My point is that I realize that's a talent, right? It's not a curse. But that ball of fire, and if you're probably listening to this podcast, probably 70% of you are this way, is that that's actually a really, really good thing. You're not meant to put all these things together. You need these people around you because they will not.

start these projects without, they won't have the idea to start to go out and mail homeowners. They won't have the idea to go knock on someone's doors into stress or start a bird dog program or go bark at the city. You know, you are the engine that drives this. And so for me, hiring that person basically who would take all of my ideas and integrate them, right, and pull all these people together and manage was the key to really moving my business, Matt, and really have it grow. because you will notice that, yes, because of your grit and your determination and that fire,

that you can keep it going for a certain amount of time, but eventually you're going to be doing some of the things that you're not natural at, and the wheels are going to fall off. It's not a luxury to be able to do this. Eventually you'll find out it's a necessity. And so for me, I really had to bring that person on to make sure that my business would continue to succeed and grow. Got it. Got it.

I think it's funny. There goes that visionary. I forgot even what the original question was already. What's your day-to-day involvement in your company now? Oh. Okay, yeah. So my day-to-day involved is I come in on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and I come in and I pump up our sales staff, right?

I talk about vision, and I talk about what they want for their life. I make sure that they're investing in their own personal net worth, and again, part of that is sales training. I'll sit down with our integrator or our general manager once a month, and we sit together off-site and have breakfast or lunch, and we go over where the company is going and the numbers and where we need to head over the next quarter to make us more successful. Got it. A book traction, I think that's the second time I've heard that recommended in the last 48 hours.

Is that a new book? It's fairly new, but it's just open it and, and, you know, and, you know, and, you can't, and, you Anyone who's listening, you'll be validated. One of my favorite lines of the book, it says, visionaries, know who you are and be free. Integrators, know who you are and be stressed. And so, you know, if you were that person whose responsibility it is to run the business on a day-to-day basis, most likely isn't the person who started the business. But those people thrive on, you know, keeping everything together and managing.

and implementing the ideas that you have. A lot of people who want those positions. And any company who, if you're in a spot and you're the visionary and you find that you're trying to integrate this stuff, as soon as I realized that I wasn't that person, I became so free. And some of the other products who were really, really excited. And it's like I've been talking about them for a long time.

And only now are they happening because I've hired the right people. Awesome. Super. So you're doing 10 to 15 deals a month. You've removed yourself from the business. You come in and give some pep talks and some training. But I know that the foundation of every single successful real estate investing business, it all starts with lead generation.

If you don't have the leads, there is no business. And so to do 10 to 15 deals a month, I know you're generating a lot of leads. What's your lead generation method of choice, or is there more than one? There's more than one, but I've had some changing feelings over the past 90 days. Number one is our bread and butter, though, is direct mail. We're going to send out postcards, and in Southern California, there are very, very big deals here, but it's very, very competitive. Vice versa, we've also mailed to the Midwest before. That was something that we took on.

And your response rate's going to be through the roof. You're going to do more deals, but the deals are going to be less. Don't get me wrong. There are some big deals in the Midwest, right? There's a little small deals, you know, out in California. But that's a general rule of them. Sure. But direct mail is by far our favorite generation tool, right?

Because I always say it's like an ATM. If you spend $5,000 in marketing, there's an excellent chance. You're going to make $20,000 to $25,000. I mean, it's almost a guarantee. Now, if you were consistent in your marketing, then you're going to make money if you get on the phone. We also do some Google AdWords, and I would say that's a far second in terms of direct response marketing. But the third thing that we do, Matt, that is a huge, is a big focus for 2015, is that we're actually really good at getting on the phone and doing deals in real estate. agents.

There's a lot of fruit hanging out there. What percentage of real estate transactions, Matt, do you think happened to real estate agents versus the ones that happened off market? Oh, I'd have to say 95%. It's about 90 to 95%. Is it? Okay. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, but about 90 to 95% happened on the MLS versus just direct mail. Right? So I'm like, well, why do we always focus on this? percent, right? I mean, granted, there's some good deals there, and they're not represented and not going throughout a third party, but there's a lot of deals in that 90%. If you look at a lot of the flipping companies or the hedge fund, they're all buying off the MLS, right? That's not including that. So here's another statistic. That's not including the deals that are done with

agents that are not on the MLS. Right? So that 90-95% is not inclusive of deals that get done through real estate agents off the MLS. And so what our team does is whenever we don't have any direct mail, we get on the phone and we call real estate agents who have houses listed on Craigslist because they're trying to double in it. They're trying to make double the commission. Or we'll get on the phone and we'll pull some numbers off the MLS and just co-call these agents who have houses that are sitting on the market for 90 days or more.

Now, sometimes it's that property that we're calling about or sometimes it's a pocket listing. But we always have a saying in our office, every, Every time is a good time to be on the phone. If you're sitting in your office and you're looking at the computer and you're comping, you're not making any money. Right. Your money is made on the telephone. So there's no such thing as I don't have any leased to call or I'm waiting for my mailers to hit

or, you know, now's a bad time a year. If you get on the phone, you're going to make money, Matt. And so those are the big three. We use Google AdWords, direct mailman, getting on the phone and call it real estate. Big three. I used to be a real estate agent. and holding open house was kind of my big deals, how I found buyers, and I did it five to seven days a week. And I got very good at that.

But part of my experience of holding an open house was at least once a day, sometimes more than that, but at least once a day, someone were walking to the open house and say, I'm an investor. What deals do you got? Do you have any good deals? And I just got to the point where I just rolled my eyes at these people like, oh, brother. So if you want me to find you a deal, that means you're going to cut into my commission. And if you're going to buy, then when you buy, you're going to want me to write such and so many lowball offers. I'm going to be piled or stacked up to my head and paperwork.

And I just looked at investors in such a, like, extra work, no money type relationship. And I've got to tell you, most of my fellow real estate agents looked at investors the same way also. What's your approach when you go to speak to a real estate agent and getting them to acquire? operate and work with you. You didn't serve me a softball, man. I was waiting for that question. Oh, I didn't even know that. Good.

Because right now I am looking at actually a flowchart of how we talk to real estate agents. We brought a consultant in my business, right? And I'm like, we want to automate this thing. We want to scale it. And he's like, well, what are you, you know, what is your sales system, right, for selling their real estate agents? Because we've found, you're right. You call up a real estate agent.

agent. And it's funny because a lot of investors, how do they look at agents? Like, if I call a real estate agent and I want a deal, all they're going to do is either send me a bunch of listings on the MLS, right? Or they're just going to have me show up with the property and compete with everybody else, right? And now just wasting my time writing up a million offers, and getting none of them accept it. Right? And that's just a colossal waste of time, man. A colossal waste of time. Indeed. So the biggest thing that I have found is that we had to set a qualification when we were talking to real estate agents, right? We had to decide up front if this is an agent that we were going to do business with or not.

So if you're okay, I'd like to share some of that criteria. Let me think. Yeah, I'd be okay with that. Go ahead. Okay. So number one is that it had to be the listing agent, right? Now, some of you say, well, Todd, I already knew that. Well, my point here is that make it a point that you will only talk to listing agents.

Now, this is in the end-all, be-all, right? But you want to make sure that you're talking to the decision-maker. And I found that a listing agent is usually the decision-maker because they have the most influence over the seller. Right. Right? If you're listening to a buying agent, you know, there is too many parties involved. They're not going to sell the deal. Yes, I've heard of people getting deals through buying agents, but that's, you know, they look like a unicorn.

Right, and I don't want to hunt unicorn. No, no. We want to do business today, right? The second criteria, though, is that that agent has to display some kind of motivation to us, just like a motivated seller will do, right? So I want to know either does the seller have a problem, right, that's going to enable me to get in there and basically, you know, close this deal from the back door without putting on the market, right? Is this agent really greedy, or are they really greedy, right, that they want to double-line it

and they're willing to take my offer to get it done so they don't have to, you know, again, to make it to ensure that they're going to double-end it. Because if they put it on the MLS, Matt, is that there's a good chance that an offer is going to come in higher that they're not representing it and they have to present that to the seller. Right. That is their fiduciary duty to do so, yes. The fiduciary duty to do so, right. If they don't put it on the MLS, right, and they're dealing with me and they don't get that offer,

they're not going to have to present it, right? Or the third thing, right, is that are they just lazy? Right? Do they not want to deal with all the phone calls? I found that that's a big one. They're like, well, I don't want to deal all these calls and all those paperwork. So, A, is there a situation where the seller doesn't want to show it, right? Sometimes it's tenets, sometimes the personal, sometimes at speed.

Is the agent really, really greedy? Okay, or are they really, really lazy? Those are like my top three. Right? And so I asked them in the beginning, right? is there a reason why we're going to get this deal? Right? And I'm like, don't be scared of the answer.

I tell everybody. Don't be scared of the answer. Or the better answer would be, is there a reason why we wouldn't get this deal? Right? And then just shut up and listen to what the agent says. Because sometimes what they'll say is, well, I'm going to have to put this out and I'll give you first shot, you know, and if you're the highest, you'll get it. well I always say don't be vague

don't be vague in your answer right don't let the agent get away with that right what does first shot mean does first shot mean that you're going to submit my offer and sell this to the seller to take it or does that mean that you're going to let me see it first and then put it on the MLS and have everyone you know compete against it because if that's it I'm going to tell you I'm not going to be the highest

right so we address that all up front right and another thing that will say is well I can tell you what if you put this out to everybody else we're probably going to be the lowest what are we going to do that right and they'll say well I can't you know and they're going to give me one of two answers man right they're going to say either a right well if you're if you're the lowest right we can't do business or well it depends what other value that you can bring and I'll sell the agent to do that right and so I'm looking at this flow chart that we have is you know we build rapport right and then basically we we we tell them

how the sales process is going to work we tell them that we can't compete, right, and that we'll have a convenient sale, we'll offer all cash, but we're not going to be the highest, how does that affect things? Right. So you're selling speed and convenience? Speed and convenience. And basically, we find out it's speed and convenience enough for them to sell this deal to their client.

And we find that usually within the first five or six minutes, Matt, and if we get the answer that we want to get, then we move forward and we have them right up and offer. If they say no, right, then we say no, we get off the phone and we could follow up in a month with age and another deal. Right, right. So you have to be willing to kill the deal. That's what I do. I always say, kill the deal, kill the deal, kill the deal.

So you find one that you can't kill. And after that, once they say yes, then have them right up the offer and get it done. And that's how you get deal-chings. Got it. Got it. Yeah. As soon as you're afraid to walk away, you've lost. So just try to walk away.

And if they don't let you walk away, you got a deal. So I'm curious. the qualities you're looking for in agents was greed, laziness, and what was the other one? Or were they representing a seller who's got a significant problem? Okay, got it, with a distress seller. Got it. So let me give you a perfect example. So we had a property that we had in San Diego.

And the seller initially, and basically the seller did not live in the property, but they had family members living in the property. And so the agent basically said, well, when I show it to you, I have to have the police come to escort you guys in. And as soon as I heard that, I was like, oh, this is going to be awesome. We're the only ones in play. Right. And so I said, well, before we go out there, right, I said, ask the agent, is there a particular reason why we wouldn't get this deal? And her response was, Matt, she's like, oh, no, no, no. I'm not representing any other sellers.

She's like, this is just way too gnarly, and you're the only ones we're dealing with. And that gave us a lot of information. And then they went out there, we got the deal. I want to wholesale for $25,000, the deal that was basically brought to us by an agent. So whenever you hear that, you've got to hear one of those things, right? Major distress from the seller, great from the agent or late one of those great. Right, I like it. So of all the agents that you've called, what percentage of the agents you call in one of those three?

categories? Well, it's usually when you catch them, okay, because I find that most real estate agents are really, really bad people. So they're not using a CRM. And even if you bought six deals from them in the past six months, they're going to forget about you on the seventh month. Right? And I'm shocked at this, but it just happens. So they've got to call them every month. But I would say that if you call 100 agents, you're probably going to find three or four who are interested in working with you. And that of 100 agents, you're, you're going to find three. you're going to probably get one deal. Right.

Got it. So if you're able to call 60 or 70 people a day, you're going to be able to get one to two deals a week without a problem. Cool. So I was anticipating it was going to be a number like that. So it's still a numbers game, regardless of how you look at it. So let's go real quick, and then I'll let you go. I didn't know we're going to take this long,

but you've been very gracious and giving, and I appreciate that. and I know the audience does as well. With the, you get call 100 agency, you get three to four that are willing to work with you, and you probably get one deal out of that. So one out of a hundred. What is, and I know you track all of these numbers, too. What is your response rate, say, on postcards right now?

Well, this is going to vary market to market, but I would say we get about a 0.5% response rate on our postcards. 25%. No, no, no, no, 0.5%. Oh, 0.5%. Yeah. And this is your point five, half of one percent. Got it. This is going to be your, this is for California, right?

Yeah, for California. Got it. Okay. Mm-hmm. That sounds lower than I thought, but closer to what I was thinking than what. If I use some crazy postcard, you know, something that's like totally radical, doesn't give them a lot of information. You know, you could bump it up to two to three percent.

Mm-hmm. But it depends on kind of the sellers that you want to be talking to. Right, right, right. Okay. Okay. Okay, so maybe one last pointer on, what do you write on your credit, or on your credit cards, on your postcards that would elicit the type of seller that you do want to talk to? Well, stay on your postcard, what you actually do. What you actually do?

Right, so the biggest thing is I have a lot of information on our postcard about what we do. I also have a testimonial on there. And so when they call, they know exactly why they're calling. I don't have an unqualified seller just calling and leaving a message. Got it. I think that's great advice. Fantastic. Well, super.

What's going on in your world now, Todd? What's in your future that's really exciting? What are you most excited about for 2015? Here's what I'm really, really excited about. Actually, you're probably the first person I told about this. All right? Breaking news. Outside of our small circle.

Right? So I guess now is a good time as any. And I'm almost saying this because it will force me to do it. But one of the things that I love doing is training our own sales reps on our team. And a lot of people say, Todd, can you train our sales reps? So one of the things that we're going to be doing is training other people on how to sell, a, themselves, or be their sales reps on basically closing deals, right? Eventually, we're going to be across multiple industries, but right now we're going to be specializing in how to find deals, talking motivated sellers and real estate agents.

And so we're going to be adding that to our repertoire in 2015. The first quarter, we're going to be obviously just focusing in-house and developing, in my opinion, the best training materials on planet on how to sell. And then the second quarter, we're going to launch and probably open up some of that training because of other people, which I just like. So, so enthusiastic about because it's probably the number one game changer when you're doing deals, Matt. You know, you've got two people, and one will send out, you know, 5,000 postcards, and the other person will send out 5,000 postcards. One person will get no deals, the other person will get three deals. And the difference is that how is that person handled the deal?

Just like we spoke about today, well, why do some people, you know, call a real estate and they'll call, you know, 200, and they don't do a deal, right? They'll sit there, farting around, and have this agent right up and, you know, offers on every single property they can find and not have them get accepted. And they're working hard, but they're not working smart. Versus you have somebody who called 50, got right to the point, nailed it down, and was able to get one or two deals. Why was that? Well, it was their ability to sell and qualify and basically move that sales process forward. And so that's what we're going to be working on in 2015.

And basically leading our own salespeople to excellence and then also leading others to do the same. Got it. Yeah. You know, you said something there. And I said it earlier when I said it's a numbers game when you're calling the agents. And it is a numbers game. But it's very much you can't ignore the, what's the intent behind working those numbers. Is it just to get through the 100 calls, or are you really trying to close a deal? Yes. Right? I would add something to that is that if you're going to make 100 calls, that's great. Right. But I want to spend one minute with the 99, and I want to spend 30 minutes with the 1.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Right. You don't spend 10 minutes with 100. Right, right. Exactly. And that's the key. Absolutely. Super.

Well, Todd, it's been an absolute pleasure. If people want to get in contact with you, I know you have the No Limits Real Estate Investing podcast, correct? Correct. Okay, super. And where else, if they wanted to find out more, actually get in contact with you, where would you direct them to?

Sure. Well, if they want to know more about our sales training, which I'm really, really excited about, that's going to be the no limit tribe.com. No limit tribe? No limits tribe.com. So no, L-L-M-I-T-S tribe.com. Got it. Fantastic.

Well, congratulations on what you've accomplished, and I know it's going to, this time and next year we'll probably be saying the same thing about your new venture, because I know that's who you are and how awesome you are, and it's been an honor to meet you and to get to know you. And let's stay in touch and touch base sometime this year. All right. And by the way, Matt, I really appreciate you having me on the show. I haven't said before, but I'm humbled. I know you have an amazing podcast and a huge following.

And the, it's funny on it, by the way, I'm pretty excited. Can I put in a plug for your body do-over? Oh, please, do. Talk about it. So I'm pretty excited. I don't know if Matt's talked about it, but he's got this up. It is basically. mutant creating grass fed weight protein.

All right. Coming out. Go ahead. No, go ahead. I'm listening. And so I've been telling Matt that I'm going to be one of the first to order on dropship. So I'm really excited for that. Oh, awesome.

Thank you, Todd. I appreciate it. You know, we live in a world of abundance. And, you know, I think competition has its place. But just because you beat someone else doesn't mean you win and vice versa. And kind of what you're talking about when you were selling Viagra. If you could get the doctors, more doctors to subscribe to that type of drug, a result would be an elevated sales of your own particular drug. And I think that's just a great philosophy.

The word is cooperative capitalism, I think, is the word. And that's just something new I'm subscribing to. Not new, but I've been doing it for a couple years. And I just like connecting with people that see it the same way. And you're one of those awesome people. So thanks, Todd. Well, thank you. You know, and it's funny, Matt, that you mentioned that.

because I find that, and look, it's easy to get into that scarcity mindset, right? Like, I don't know about you, but sometimes they get caught back up on it every now and then. But I usually find that any time I've had like a competition or scarcity mindset, even with people in my own market, it's like I stay small by trying to keep other people small. Indeed. Right. So, like, I don't grow. And so I thought it actually helps me more.

Yeah. It's almost self-servic, you know? Right. You know, you see it in so many different aspects. I mean, a lot of the people that call are, you know, just call in for various reasons, whether calling in for the Academy or for the Cashflow Savvy or just writing emails about their experience out in the market. And it's so many people are so focused on what the other guy makes that they lose focus on what they're actually making. Right. And it's such a pet peeve of mine.

I don't even like to talk to those people. I'm just like, you know, you've got to shift your, what, I talk. Talk about the whole thing here, the four stages of the millionaire real estate investor in Gary Keller's book. And that first stage is to think like a millionaire real estate investor. And that's the one that everyone, they just glance right over that. They want to get, okay, so how do I do deals? How do I get the right marketing piece? And what do I say that?

What are the magic words to say to sellers and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, no, you got to get that first stage, the thinking part down first. You can't ignore that one. Because that one right there is going to dictate your actions in the other three stages. It's so important. Right. You know, not to get too far off topic, but it's funny. I really thought about that when I'm watching Shark Tank, right, is that, you know,

and these guys who watch these people who have these ideas and these businesses, right? Well, they can go out and start these things themselves, right? You know, these businesses, but instead they're like, no, you know, I want to invest in this person, and I will go much faster and farther by being almost collaborative than trying to hoard everything myself. And they understand really the power of leverage, right? It's like sometimes with these people, I always, if I say, look, if I take all my competitors, I decide I'm going to shield myself from them.

Well, I'm not going to have any friends. Right. Right. So, you know, you better learn how to cooperate with them. No doubt. No doubt. Well, super. Well, thanks, Todd.

Happy New Year to you, bud, and we'll talk soon. All right. Thank you so much, man. You bet. Take care. Todd has a great podcast, No Limits Real Estate Investing. and you can find his show wherever you happen to be listening to this one. Oh, and by the way, Fernando,

Director of Operations at Cashflow Savvy, just posted three new hot properties at CashflowSavvy.com. So go to Cashflow Savvy.com and click on the Hot Properties tab and you can see his hottest three deals for the month right there, all of which I believe qualify for his acquisition assistance program. It's kind of like layaway for real estate, but you actually get to receive the cash flow from the property while it's on layaway. Pretty cool program.

CashflowSavvy.com, click the Hot Properties tab, and there you go. If waiting for your investments to grow feels like waiting for paint to dry, there's a powerful secret your financial planner doesn't want you to know. You can accelerate your investments growth by two, three, or even four times. That's bad news for Wall Street, but great news for you. We're cash flow savvy, and we'd like to offer you free information that will show you how to take control of your investments and double, triple, or even quadruple their returns.

And it's yours for free. For the secret your financial planner doesn't want you to know, go to cashflowsabby.com. That's cashflow savvy.com. Special thanks today from our guest, Todd Toback of No Limits Real Estate Investing. And Lisa Nilsson, thank you for allowing us to listen in on a portion of your coaching call.

And Fernando, thank you. Thank you for sharing your hot deals with us. All rightyty. So that's it for today. I'm Matt Terrio, Living the Dream. You've been living. listening to Epic Real Estate Investing, the world's foremost authority on separating the facts from the BS in real estate investing education. If you enjoyed this show, please take a minute to visit iTunes and share your thoughts.

Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time here at Epic Real Estate Investing with Matt Terrio. This podcast is a part of the C-suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit c-sweetradio.com. Thank you.