Epic Real Estate Investing - Wholesaling Wins: Unveiling Cash Buyer Secrets with Tom Zeeb | 1287

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

Get ready to embark on an adrenaline-fueled journey with Tom Zeeb, the trailblazing real estate titan, and founder of Traction Real Estate Investors Association. In a heart-pounding episode on the Epic Real Estate Investing Podcast, Zeeb unveils the gripping narrative of his rise from a life-altering whitewater rafting accident to the pinnacle of real estate success. This isn't your average success story—it's a saga of resilience, triumph, and strategic brilliance. Join us as Zeeb delves into the lightning-fast strategies that will revolutionize your approach to finding cash buyers in wholesaling. Discover the insider's guide to navigating local Real Estate Investors Association meetings, securing your ringside ticket to real estate victory. Hold onto your hats, because Zeeb doesn't just stop at the present; he peers into the future with contagious excitement. Learn how challenging markets transform into golden opportunities for the creative minds in real estate. This isn't your ordinary podcast; it's a pulse-pounding clash of wisdom, a riveting bout of insights, and a fierce battle of strategies that will leave you on the edge of your seat. Don't miss out on the Epic Real Estate Investing Podcast – Tom Zeeb edition. It's not just a podcast; it's your exclusive ringside seat to success in real estate! Buckle up, hit play, and let the real estate adventure begin! 🚀 P.S. Whenever you're ready to go deeper and further with your real estate investing, looking into my partner program to help you get your first deal might be the move... take the first step here for free 👉 https://epicearnwhileyoulearn.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ladies and gentlemen, get ready for an explosive episode on the epic real estate investing podcast. In today's episode, our guest is one and only. Tom Zeb, Zeeb, a real estate titan and founder of Traction Real Estate. Investors Association shares his journey from a life-altering whitewater rafting accident to real estate success. But this isn't your average success story. It's a testament to resilience. Zeeb dives into lightning fast strategies for finding cash buyers in wholesaling and navigating local real estate investors association meetings. This episode is your ringside ticket to real estate

victory, but that's not all. Zeeb looks into the future, predicting market shifts with contagious excitement. Challenging markets, according to Zeb, are golden opportunities for creative minds in real estate. Tighten your seat belts because this isn't an ordinary podcast. It's a clash of wisdom, a bout of insights, and a battle of strategies that will leave you on the edge of your seat. Get ready for the epic real estate investing podcast, Tom Zeb Edition. It's not just a podcast. It's your ringside seat to success in real estate. Are you ready? Let's go. Hey, strap in. It's time for the epic real estate investing show.

We'll be your guides as we navigate the housing market, the landscape of creative financing strategies, and everything you need to swap that office chair for a beach chair. If you're looking for some one-on-one help, meet us at rei-aise.com. Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. Let's go. Hey there, joining us today is a transformative figure in real estate investing, overcoming a life-altering whitewater rafting incident in 2001,

didn't know about and I want to ask him about. Return to real estate, transitioning from a 9 to 5 job to successful investing career. And as president of Traction Real Estate Investors, Association and founder of Traction Real Estate Mentors, he's known for his impactful mentorship and innovative strategies. His journey from adversity to success inspires many, proving the power of resilience and smart investing currently based in Florida. He's a bestselling author and a guiding force for investors at all levels. Please help me welcome to the epic real estate investing show, Tom Z.

Tom, welcome to Epic. Thanks, Matt. Thanks for having me. You bet. I can't believe this is your first time year, as long as we've known each other. I know. I've known you a long time. That's all right.

That's right. Well, it's great to catch up and we'll kind of let everybody sit in and listen because, you know, your journey, it's a testament to the power of real strategic thinking and resilience in the market. So I want to talk today about something that's particularly relevant in today's landscape, and that's finding cash buyers. You know, and with the market constantly evolving, this has become a challenge for many investors. And you being a successful wholesale investor, what is your go-to strategy for quickly finding cash buyers when you're just starting in wholesaling?

My number one place to find them is I attend RIA meetings. You know, find your local real estate investors association. That is a room full of rehabbers and landlords who are looking for properties. You want more properties. but they get so wrapped up, rehabers get wrapped up rehabbing, landlords get wrapped up landlording, that they're not always out there looking for more deals. So as a wholesaler, if I just focus on finding deals,

I know I've got people to sell them to because they're there at the meeting and the active ones are there. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. And I think it's very much, with so much technology and now AI here, it's such an overlooked way to do things. But really at the end of the day, all of the technology, all the lead generation stuff, all the tricks and gadgets.

It's all for one purpose. And that's just to get you to face to face with a buyer or a seller. And, well, they have these meetings once a month where all the buyers and sellers go at the same time. Right? He could really cut out the middleman. It's old school to tell people to get together in a room. But it's amazing what you can do. You know who you get along with.

You know who you'd want to sell. Do you get a sense of, you know, do you like them? Do you trust them, et cetera? That's, I mean, that you can't get that any other way. Just be face to face. Right. All right. So let's say someone is like.

like, okay, I'm a believer. I'll do it. They're walking into an event like this for the very first time and they see a bunch of people and that could be kind of intimidating for people. What's your advice to the person with that in that situation? Turn it into a game. Gameify it. Anytime you want to try to get to a goal, turn it into a game, have some fun with it. So I remember when I started out, yeah, you're shy. You know, you don't know anything. You walk in the room of people you think are all experts on everything and you're a no-nothing. well, turn it into a game. So what I would do is I say, I'm not leaving here

until I have 10 business cards in my back pocket. I would literally go around, you know, shake hands, say hello, exchange information, put it in my back pocket, and then quickly move on the next conversation. You can't get, you know, that urge to feel comfortable and just talk to somebody all night long is actually bad because you want to meet as many people as possible. You can always get together with somebody else after for lunch or coffee.

So I turn it into a game like that, go around and set a number. If you think 10's too high, then start with five, start with three. Start with whatever it's going to get you going. Start with one. You know, one person's a list. That's how a list starts with one, then two, then three, et cetera. Right. And I don't know, from my history, my past, you don't need a big buyer's list if you're

good at final deals. A list of one can be very, very powerful if it's the right one, right? Yeah. You get a good deal. The buyers will come to you. Okay. So let's say you got, you walk out of there with 10, business cards. And, you know, what's next?

Type them up. Get them in a database of some sort. It doesn't have to be fancy software or anything. I just, I pop it right in the Microsoft Outlook. There's my list. And the people are tagged buyer. I knew who they are. But I usually like to ask my buyers some initial questions that Matt, this part's not critical. But it's if I like to know, you know, you're looking for rehab, you're looking for rentals. You have any particular criteria, usual formula, the particular neighborhoods. But that stuff can change what people tell you. But I ask it anyway because I want to hear it because it gets me motivated about knowing where to focus my marketing and what kind of level of negotiation I need to be doing to get these people to buy through. You know, there's two

schools of thought on this. And I find myself more often on the other side than the majority, but I don't know. I want to get your take. You think it's more important to find the deal first or to find the buyers first? More important to find the deal. Thank you. Okay, well, buyers will come out of the woodwork when you got a deal. Right. Getting a motivated seller, you know, finding them and negotiating with them to make it into a deal, that takes more.

Otherwise, it's like looking for likes on social media. Okay, you got somebody to click thumbs up or, you know, whoopee ding. That doesn't make you any money. I want you to start building your buyers list. Don't get me wrong, right? You should always be building your buyers list, but just having a buyer's list doesn't make you any money. You got to find a motivated seller. Right, right.

And the fastest way to build a buyer's list is to find the deals. Yes. Right? There's no sort of, there's still, even with the economy doing what it is today, if it's even doing anything, I think a lot of it is being driven by public sentiment right now because people are still out there doing business. And all the building and the development going on around me, like there's no shortage of money in the system for a good deal.

And you find the deals, you find the buyers. So now you're going out, you've got you, you put them into your list. do you do any sort of engagement before the deal? You just flat out, I got them in my list and I just wait

until I find a deal now. I'll send out an initial hey, you know, great to meet you. I'm going to, you know, almost like you're on my list. Great to meet you.

If you need anything, just click reply. Let me know when I have great deals. I'm going to send them to you. So it's almost like a one-way permission thing. It just kind of confirm I got it.

Because you know what happens sometimes? Sometimes you get a bounce back. You know, you mistyped or their address was wrong, you mis-right. So it helps you right at the beginning, just clear that out. Got it. Any other methods? I mean, if that's your go-to, is that enough for you?

Or do you have other ways that you go about finding buyers? I've got other ways as well. I mean, that's my main go-to. I think that's the best way. Another great way, my second favorite, is find cash buyers, existing cash buyers that have just purchased something for cash in the areas that you're targeting. Because if they bought for cash once, they'll probably buy for cash again. They're most likely an investor.

I mean, who buys for cash, man? Right. Investors and Californians. Other than that, so one out of tens of California, nine out of ten are investors. So you can use your MLS system to pull previous cash transactions. A lot of people don't realize that, but they don't understand how that's done. You can figure it out with your agent to search an area, search whatever zip or county.

You say to look for transactions that were closed with cash. Because when an agent closes out a transaction, to close out the listing, they have to answer a number of questions. One of those questions is, what was the financing type used? Well, if it's cash, that's an investor. Put them on your list. Speaking of agents, there's so many different resources out there that aggregate all of this data.

But there's really none of them that have been able to master the MLS data, right? It's a lot of its third party information. It's not updated on a regular basis. You don't have access to the expires or what's actually things that sold for, particularly if you're going to go into the nondisclosure states. There's one service out there that I like a lot that I'll use. But you know, you should still have that real estate agent as a part of your team. And that could be difficult to find.

I always say sometimes it's more difficult to find a cooperative real estate investor with, or excuse me, a real estate agent with the work ethic that it is to find a motivated seller. Yes, it is. Luckily, there's a lot of fish out there in that water. There's tons of people with a license. Some of them are good. Some of them are. You do have to churn through them.

And look, at the end of the day, you're going to kiss a lot of frogs. Yeah, that is for sure. Keep kissing. Yeah, right? Well, we've got into the point here in Vegas. I mean, we've got through seven or eight of them that just can't keep up with us, right? And so Mercedes is just going to go get her license and just do it that way. So look, that's an easy way.

It's an option for people. You go get your license or if you have a relationship with someone who's close with their broker, if you have a relationship with a broker, a lot of times if the broker signs off on somebody becoming an assistant, they can have direct email access. For the most part, the brokers have complete power in their area. So they can name anybody an assistant without having to bother to go get the license. So that's everyone's personal call.

Right. Right, right. Interesting. Because in Mercedes networking mastermind group here, there is a broker in her thing. And I've always known about the assistant thing, but that didn't cross my mind until you just reminded me of it right. Glad I can help. Perfect. Let's see. How do you, once you have a deal, you've got your list, you've got a deal.

How do you present it to your cash buyers? How do you share it with your list and do you do anything special to make it irresistible or more appealing? If the price is right and you put together a decent description, that makes it pretty darn irresistible. I mean, at the end of the day, I don't want to throw in a big screen TV or anything because the deal should speak for itself. And the number one way I write it up and announce it to my list is via email, which one will see is old-fashioned too. But the moment I get the contract from the motivated seller, I send it over to my total company to have them, you know, settlement company have them start to get the process going. And then I sit down and write up a buyer's list message. I state what it is, where it is, when I think about it, what I think it's worth.

And I back that up with a link to MLS comps. I show them, I state what I think the repair estimate is. And I back that up with an entire photo gallery, photo gallery taken from my inspection. Oh, and by the way, I don't put photos into the email. It's a link to a photo gallery. That way I don't get spammed out. and then I put my asking price and anything else I have to end there. And then also, for me, it's very important.

I say, my settlement company, no exceptions. Because I'm the wholesaler. I want to maintain control. So I don't want them thinking they're going to go. I state I'm not selling a property. I'm selling the contract. I have this under contract and I'm assigning it. My settlement company, no exceptions.

That way, I'm maintaining control the whole time. Got it. So you've been doing this for how long now, Tom? I started in 2001. Okay. So that would be a long time ago. Long time. 23 years.

Yeah. Okay. So you got my five-year head start on me. So with that, how many people on your buyers list right now that? I mean, that are real buyers. Oh, well, it's funny. So I have my main buyer's list and then I have my preferred buyers list. So I turn that preferred buyer's list is down to probably about 24, 25.

The people I've sold to again and again and again, and I like it that way. You could almost do the deal on a handshake. I mean, it's still always in writing and we still always sign contracts. But when you get used to the same buyers again and again, you'll like it that way. But it starts with that wider range. You start with that bigger list. And then once you've sold to somebody once, they're going, hey, feed me another one and see me another one. And sometimes they'll take as many as you can get or they'll take as many as they can handle at a given time.

So if I've got a month where I've got three, maybe one person can't take all of those. Okay, fine. Then I have multiple buyers for that. What happens or what do you do when you send out your email with your deal and nothing comes back? Oh, yes. Yeah. I hate that day, Matt. Then I have to have a really cold, hard look at the numbers.

What the heck happened here? Why isn't anyone going for this? And so I look at everything again. I see, what do I think is off? And then I will call my call, usually, I reach out to my top few buyers and say, hey, did you get that email? You don't like that? Why not? And usually when this happens, they'll say, Tom, your repair estimate's off. Or I don't agree with what you think is worth all fixed up. And I argue with them to try to justify it. Hey, look, it happens. Every now and then I screw it up or I made a mistake. Well, then, but at least I know if I've talked to two, three, four, four different buyers and they're all telling me the same thing and the prices are all clustering at a different level. Well, now I have a target for renegotiation. And then I've got to have a very awkward conversation with my motivated seller. Like, yeah, I know we agreed on something and I know we signed, but I'm going to have to bail out and walk away because, you know, I screwed this

up. I've been talking to some of the senior people in my group or whoever my higher authority is. That way it's not, I'm not totally to blame. I said, look, this is the best we can do now and I have to work them down in price. If I can get it for the new target price, because I know what it would sell like, because I've just asked my main buyers, why didn't you like it? What would you like it at? So if I can get it, great. If I care, then I'm going to walk away. Yeah. Because sometimes you got a deal and the market tells you it's not really a deal. Yeah. I would say that if you can't sell a deal, it's for one of two reasons. Either you haven't shared it with enough people. Yeah. And today with the internet and just, I mean, a big email is that's typically,

going to be more than enough. And then the second thing is, it's just not the deal you think it is. Right. Right. Yeah, you mess something up. I teach my students that there's three critical numbers. You've got to get these three critical numbers right. Because if you screw any of them up, that's when it doesn't sell. So when something doesn't sell, none of my buyers want it, I go back to my three critical numbers. The first one is the ARV, the after repair value, which I have to prove with comps. And so maybe I haven't proven it right or enough or I'm or I'm flat out wrong. Second number is the repair estimate. That's the trickier one. But, you know, I've gotten good at it over the years, but sometimes, you know, people see something in the

photos that I didn't. That's fine. And then the third critical number you got to know to know whether or not you have a deal is the lowest price the seller is willing to take. So generally, you know, which you negotiate down to. Generally, it's the first or second number that's messed up when buyers don't want it, which means I then have to go back and adjust the third. Thanks for sitting tight while we pay our light bill. We'll be back. Right after this. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what?

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For more information on this property and others like it, snag a free investor package from cashflow savvy.com. Ever hear someone say, I have too much money? Me neither. Let's get you some more. Back to the show. What do you do if you've got a cash buyer comes in

and they want to buy it from you? Do you have any sort of vetting process for your buyers to kind of evaluate if they're going to get in the car or not. Absolutely. So how do you do that? You'll love this one. If you want to play a ball with me, I need to see your bank account statement. And that bank account needs to show me that you've got enough money to take the entire deal down.

So that's the underlying purchase price and my assignment fee. I have to see that you've got the cash in the bank to do that. Or you send me your line of credit statement showing me that you've got enough of valuable credit to do it. Because at this point, Matt, if they're hesitating, I'm going, guys, this is a cash deal. I mean, you know, as soon as the title works done, we can close, this isn't complicated. It's not like a bank deal where I got to sign, you know, 7,000 pages of paperwork. This is easy. This is like, you know, 20 pages.

We're done. So I worry about it, then sometimes at that point they say, oh, well, I'm using hard money. Right. Now, I might be okay with that, but I'm glad I know now because I want to talk directly at a hard money lender. because anyone else that kind of needs to decide whether or not my deal is going to go through, I get nervous. So I prefer the people that have their own cash. And the only way to prove that is to show me the money.

Right. Right. All right. Show me the money. Simple enough. Yeah. So looking back, what's one mistake you've made when sourcing cash buyers that you'd want to warn others to avoid it? Dude, this sounds horribly cynical.

Don't take anyone's word for it. There's a reason I ask. to see their bank account because everyone tells me they've got the money. Everyone tells me that the biggest player in the real estate industry and whatever area you're in. And guess what? Very few of them actually are. The only way to prove it is to see the money. I got to see the bank account.

I got to see the line credit state. So, okay, so then you just said something that brings something up. When you're talking to your students and every single one of my students, hands down, thinks their market is too competitive and oversaturated and they want to go somewhere else, right? That too? Every single time, darn near it. Anyone that's done a little bit of like dabbling before they met me? Absolutely 100% across the board.

If they're brand new and fresh, they don't know any better. And that's probably a better place to be. You know, when you've got a lot of people out there and you think there's a lot of investors out there, what's your advice to your students? Advice to get moving no matter what is, I'll tell you what. This is something I learned on my very first deal, which was an absolute disaster. I mean, I started off. I bought a six-unit building in New York City, landlord-friendly New York City. I had all professional tenants.

And I did to do what I saw. New York's squatter laws and they're just terrible. The insanity is, it's off the chart. So I darn there went under from this deal, right? My first deal almost took me completely under. I was a classic motivated seller. I was desperate to get rid of this place. And so I was, since I was also trying to become a real estate investor,

and I was learning more during the time that this deal and went down. Matt, I turned around and said, I need to do a reverse marketing campaign. I need to find investors to save me the motivated seller. I called every ad in the paper. I called, it was the early days of the internet, but I called every internet ad I could find. I called every flyer in every coffee shop.

Anyone I could reach out to do with every bandit sign, call them up. Guess how many people answered the phone? None. None. Zero. I think, you've got to be kidding. me. Guess how many called me back from the messages I left? None.

Are you, I mean, did I not sound desperate, motivated enough? Like, please help me save me from this back. So I went, wait a minute. Why are these people spending money on marketing when they don't pick up the phone or they don't even bother the call back? So wait a minute, I don't think a lot of the competition out there is actually as competitive as we think. I think there's this false perception that everybody's doing real estate. Look at all those people at the group. Look at all these people online. Look at all these people interested. That's great. How many of them are actually marketing? Yeah. And for the whatever, two percent that actually are, well, fine. You've wiped out 98% of your competition by just doing something and doing it consistently. Now jump in and learn to

build better rapport, learn to negotiate better, learn to talk to people better. And watch. Before long, you'll have more people drawn to you. They'll choose you, even over someone. that offers them more just because they wind up liking you better. So when I say to everybody that says that, I go, don't worry about it. Skip your competition. You can very safely assume they don't exist because they ain't do it enough. You get out there, do what you know you need to do. You will make it happen.

I'd say the same thing in different words, but the same thing. I said, you're better off gambling and betting on humanity's deficiencies and lack of ability. to be consistent than you are betting on a new market. Yes. Just answer the phone. Just answer the phone and you've eliminated so many. There's that stat where it says like only 2% of the deal closed on the first touch and such and such on the second. And if you take out all of those stats together, it's 98.7% is what it came out.

I think as the whole market quits on an eventual yes. Yes. Right? Nobody has the patience to watch. way for it. And oh, heaven forbid they were told no. Then they run screaming and say, this doesn't work. This is late night TV garbage. Well, wait a minute. You know, how do I say this nicely? No doesn't mean no. No just means no right now. That means you got to go back and do a little bit more work and talk to people a little bit more. And the time,

or call them back in a month and watch what happens because time changes everything. Yep. I'm always surprising when I have students that get deals done and they're so shocked. Like, they're surprised that it worked. They, you know, they made this huge investment on themselves. They're spending all their time when they're extra hours and working on this thing and they close the deals that. They're like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. I was like, why could you start in the first place?

Of course it works. Why did you think we were doing this? Yes. Yes. That's good. So, let's see. New market. I mean, we're kind of shifting.

What do you see for the future and how are you changing the way you go about business? Well, this is totally contrarian. I'm completely excited for the future, Matt, because I'm a creative real estate investor. I'm not your standard normal agent. I'm not an agent at all. So if the market's falling apart, so to speak, and areas that weren't soft are now soft, but that just means like the rate of which things are selling is changing. But that, to me, as a creative real estate investor, is a good thing because the number one option that motivated sellers have is to list the property and see what they can get.

Well, if that's no longer a good option, or if that ain't going to happen fast enough anymore, they have to come to me. So I'm super excited that when I market the people, I'm not this random person contacting them now. That's a pretty serious option now to call Tom because they can't just run to their local Asian. and expect a thing to sell in three and a half minutes of being listed. For sure. So is that changing the way you're doing business at all? The fundamentals, no, aren't changing. I'm just making sure the consistencies there.

I'm going back to a couple of lists that I haven't done in the past, but sometimes over what's changed as well. Like, I traditionally love tired landlords, but during the moratorium, during, you know what, for a few years there, they didn't allow evictions. So that slowed that list down. So I just pulled out of it, but I'm coming back into that now

because there's a giant backlog of evictions and going through the system. So I'm happy to see some of that coming back. There's more, when times get tough and inflation goes up and economy gets rough and you can't sell your house quickly, there's less options available, there's more people available for me.

I'm a happy camper. Yeah, yeah. That moratorium, did that impact you at all? Yes, in terms of that marketing source of funds. What's your rentals that you had? Did you feel it at all? Yes.

You did? Yes. I had one of my units we had an interesting scenario where people had stopped paying because why would you pay? The government told you don't need to. And yet, you know, I still needed to pay the bank on it. One of the units, I hired a landlord-tenant

attorney. Even in the midst of COVID, we were able to get the tenants out. and I recovered. I basically walked away even, just the way that one worked. But just one? Just on the one unit, yep. Yeah.

I was happy about it. I was the only one in the fact of me on. I got them out and so all as well. That ends well. Because we only had one also, but they moved out voluntarily. I'm sorry I won't be able to pay, so I'm going to move back with my parents and they just left.

Oh, how delightful honest. I was like, I'd read to them again anytime. Yeah, and you just see so much chatter, at least I do. on bullet in the comments and stuff of the posts and everything of people talking about how terrible is to be a landlord with the next more car income comes along and no one's going to pay. And I'm like, that wasn't my situation at all.

That wasn't my experience at all. You had won. I had won up. That being said, a number of my members and my rear group, some of them got hammered horribly. So I think like a lot of things, some people were very lucky, some were unlucky. It's all has to do with your upfront work. If you're just slamming people in there, anybody that'll move in there. You hear about Washington.

It has passed a new thing that you can no longer check criminal backgrounds of your tenants. Oh, thanks. I was like, oh my God. Well, they're trying to make it so you can't even ask income or income source at some point, at which I'm going, I don't know, man. This is getting ridiculous. Everything can't be a protected class. I mean, I've got to be able to make a decision somehow. Right, right.

Boy, is this the more of the stuff that comes down, the more of these like the conspiracy theories that were five, six years ago that you thought were totally insane. You're thinking like, well, gosh, we just keep on going the same direction and we're just nibbling away at it. Maybe there's something to this stuff. Yeah. But yeah, hey, real estate, it's an essential thing for humanity to live and exist. And when it starts becoming scarce, that only does one thing to the price. So you want to own as much as you possibly can.

That's my philosophy. Yep. Food, clothing, shelter. We're in the shelter business. Yep. I'm trying to figure out to invest in water, but I haven't quite figured that out. If I could get some leverage on some water, that would be fantastic. It's a big thing in the West.

It's true. Cool. So, hey, Tom, it's been a pleasure. If someone wanted to get in touch with you, what would be the best way for them to do that? Hit my website. Go to Tom, Zee as a Zebra, E, B as and Boy.com. Whole podcast there on negotiating and great way of contact me. Awesome. Cool. Well, thanks, bud. Let's stay in touch and we'll do it again soon.

Sounds good. Thanks, Matt. All right, take care. And that wraps up the epic show. If you found this episode valuable, who else do you know that might too? There's a really good chance you know someone else who would. And when their name comes to mind, please share it with them and ask them to click the subscribe button when they get here and I'll take great care of them. God loves you and so do I. Health, peace, blessings, and success to you. I'm Matt Terrio. Living the dream. You didn't know home world We got to cash low This podcast is a part of the C-suite Radio Network

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