Epicenter - Learn about Crypto, Blockchain, Ethereum, Bitcoin and Distributed Technologies - The Death of Altcoins & Bitget’s New "Universal Exchange"

Episode Date: January 9, 2026

In this episode, host Brian Crain is joined by Gracy Chen, CEO of Bitget, to discuss the exchange's rapid ascent and its ambitious roadmap for 2026. Gracy shares her journey from a mathematics background and journalism into the C-suite of a top-tier exchange, detailing Bitget's growth from a team of 150 to over 2,200 employees. She outlines the concept of the "Universal Exchange" (UEX) a unified platform where the boundaries between crypto, tokenized equities, and commodities effectively disappear.They explore how Bitget is leveraging Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) and AI-driven advisory tools like Get Agent to redefine user acquisition and trading intelligence. Gracy also provides a candid outlook on the "altcoin fading" phenomenon, arguing that the market is shifting toward blue-chip assets and real-world utility. Finally, they discuss the immense challenges of global regulatory compliance, including Bitget’s priorities for securing MiCA licenses and navigating a potential entry into the complex US market.Topics - 00:00 Intro & Crypto Beginnings - 05:45 The Origin of Bitget - 10:15 The "Universal Exchange" (UEX) Vision - 16:30 Tokenized Stocks vs. TradFi Brokers - 22:00 Competition: CEX, DEX, & Robinhood - 28:15 AI in Trading: Get Agent & GEO - 34:40 The State of Altcoins in 2026 - 41:00 Global Compliance: MiCA & US Markets - 55:30 2026 Market PredictionsLinks - Gracy Chen on X: https://x.com/GracyBitget - Bitget: https://www.bitget.com/ - Bitget Wallet: https://web3.bitget.com/ - Gnosis: https://gnosis.io/Sponsors: Gnosis: Gnosis has been building core decentralized infrastructure for the Ethereum ecosystem since 2015. With the launch of Gnosis Pay last year, we introduced the world's first Decentralized Payment Network. Start leveraging its power today at http://gnosis.io

Welcome to episode of the show which talks about the technologies, projects, and people driving decentralization and blockchain revolution. I'm Brian Crane, and today I'm speaking with Gracie Chan, who is the CEO of BitGat. We want to grow the pie bigger rather than just cutting pie with from each other. So one way to grow the pie bigger is to offer more products, especially valuable products that our users want to trade. And that's why we're working hard to build on our RWEs. We see DX and CEX more as integration, rather than,

than pure competitor. Today, Binance and Okax probably offer about 200, 200, 300 cryptocurrencies. We have 700 cryptocurrencies available on our CX. I personally think there are about 70% possibility that there is still another bull market. Thanks so much for joining us, Gracie. I'm curious, how did you get into crypto in the first place?

Sure. I had a mathematics degree from my undergrad. So when I, after I graduated from my bachelor's degree, I actually went to be a journalism about a decade ago. And when I was a TV journalist, I had a friend from my TV circle who asked me, you should check out crypto and Bitcoin. So I look at the Bitcoin White Paper in 2015 and was immediately intrigued by the mathematics. beauty behind Bitcoin. And, you know, those 13-page white paper, how that created the very ideal world of decentralized ledger. And I bought some Bitcoin at the price of about 300-inch, so that went pretty well. But I haven't, I didn't really, I wasn't really working in

this industry until 2022 when I joined Biggett as the first. managing director. And of course, two years later, I was promoted to be the CEO of BigG. But my crypto investment journey started pretty early in 2015, but my crypto working journey only started in 2022. This episode is brought you by NOSUS, building the open internet one block at a time. NOSIS was founded in 2015, and it's grown from one of Ethereum's earliest projects into a powerful ecosystem for open user-owned finance. NOSIS is also the team behind products that had become core to my business and that are so many others like Safe and CowSwap. At the center is NOSIS

chain. It's a low fee layer one with zero downtime in seven years and is secured by over 300,000 validators. It's the foundation for real world financial applications like NOSIS pay and circles. All this is governed by NOSISDAO, a community-run organization where anyone with a GNO token can vote on updates, fund new projects, and even run a validator from home. So if you're building in Web 3, or you're just curious about what financial freedom can look like, start exploring at nosis.io. What's the story of how you ended up joining BitKit? So when I was making investment in crypto industry earlier,

though some mainly the secondary market investment, but I did have some primary market investment. One of my investment was Big Kip, which today is called Bigget wallet. So in 2022, Big Keep was already invested by Beget. And then Beget actually just randomly reached out to the investors asking if you have any recommendation for someone who has marketing background and are passionate about Web 3. So the founder of Beget reached out to me to force someone to recommend.

And I said, it sounds like me. Because for the past 10 years, I was actually doing Web 2 startup. Either journalism, well, even was a journalist, I was reporting on finance and technology because of my mathematics and financial background. But just for one year in journalism, I started to work in Web2 startups as CMOs or CEOs, mainly building on FinTech and VR Metaverse. So even if I wasn't working in Web 3, I was working in Web 2, but very much on marketing and on something technology related.

So I said, yeah, that sounds like me because I do have this many years of, you know, marketing background and are you interested in, you know, having me as your menu director who's role is very much like a CMO. Yeah, and we had, of course, we knew each other before and we had a good chat. I then subsequently talked to all the higher executives at Bigget, including the previous CEO, Sandra. And I noticed this team is quite strong, but they do lack marketing personality and someone like me who can kind of compliment with this team. So in 2022, as you can imagine, joining a centralized exchange is not an easy auction because there are so many competitors. And this industry is what we call a red sea means lots of competition, like very competitive market.

So it definitely took some courage and wisdom, hopefully, that I chose to join Beget in 2022. and subsequently saw the growth of the company from maybe a top 10 or 10 plus-ish kind of ranking to where we are today, top five or even sometimes top three in terms of the global CEX ranking. Okay, okay. And what was the, how old was Bigger back then? And like what's kind of the origin story of BitGed? Sure. So Bigget started off in 2017.

And you can imagine that's like a bearer. bull market the last cycle, the ICOH. The BigGat original funding team did saw the huge potential of blockchain, but that wasn't really an easy age or easy days to start at CEX because there were so many other competitors again. So the BigGat original funding team did, I actually chat with our CEO, previous CEO, Sandra on this as well. Like there were a point of time that they nearly were not breaking even or nearly were closing down because it's so competitive.

If you don't find a product that you can stand out, you will just gradually die. So Bigget had a, I think, luck and also some sort of skill to be able to stand out as a derivative market before 2022 when I joined Biggett. And we later on together worked. When I joined BigGat, we had about 150 employees. Today we have 2,200 employees. So you can see it's a big team and, of course, a huge growth in terms of team number, in terms of the trading volume and user number as well. But together we shifted BigGET from just a derivative market,

focusing more on the East Asia market to a global brand, which have 120 million users and not just derivative anymore. If you see our product offerings today, we have derivatives, of course, but also spot market crypto. And not just crypto, today we offer tokenized U.S. stocks, and we're going to launch the tokenized commodity and for Forex very soon. So it's not just a, you know, smaller East Asia kind of exchange anymore. Today it's a global brand. So initially the traction was with derivative. You said was that for like perpetuals or?

It's mainly perpetuals, yes. More mainly perpetuals. Okay, okay, okay. Interesting. So you mentioned, you know, exchange is being this ready. see and it's obviously interesting because on the one hand exchanges are like by far the most profitable and powerful players in crypto of course binance more than anyone or like finance and coin base and then you know like others like big gap right also up there um and at the same time

it's like super competitive which again you'd expect because the the payoff to being there at the top is so high. What do you, what a big get now? What are the main sort of ways you differentiate and you try to gain market share versus competitors? Mm-hmm. If we are talking about 2025, I would say, well, we are thinking today is definitely very different from 2022 when I joined the company and also, of course, very different from

2017. But if we answer it from today, this perspective, I would say we don't just think about how to differentiate us from another crypto exchange. We more think about how to differentiate us from a trading platform in general. What I mean by that is today I don't think my competitors are only Binance and OKX or buy a bit, but my competitors should be Robin Hood, Foo in Hong Kong or Asia market, Itorah and of course, Itoros or Itoro and of course other CX and DX.

What we want to focus on is to offer a top-notch trading experience rather than just offering crypto. And exact, you know, how do we attract new users? I would say it's a good combination of different ways. There are, of course, events that we are attending. There are unlike campaigns that we are. offer. There are KOLs who we work together with to promote specific product offerings to specific markets in different languages. So it's a very holistic kind of marketing plan or

user acquisition. And previously, people focused on SEO, search engine optimization. Today, we are not just focusing on SEO. We are also focusing on geo, which is, you know, kind of engine optimization, generative engine optimization. So we think from a very future perspective, we're very bullish on AI, and we've offered all sort of tokenized products because we think crypto or just all coins are not enough for my user's appetite. They are also interested in U.S. docs, for example, if you see. see the volume on our platform. It quickly surpassed $10 billion in like 73 days after we launched

our tokenized U.S. product. So there's lots of needs out there. And yeah, I hope I answer that question, but I just feel it may not have like a straightforward answer because there's so many different ways or different things that we are looking at. Today, I definitely think being able to offer all sort of tokenized asset. is a differentiation factor from other CEX. And then building some tools for our users to trade smarter, especially on AI, is another differential factor that we have. So you mentioned the tokenized stocks and, you know,

companies like Robin Hood or food two as competitors that, you know, had their beginning in more trading, trading of stocks. What do you see as the problem con between having tokenized stocks on the platform, versus those platforms where you trade stocks directly and there's not tokenization layer, does that matter? Or is it just like, you know, the users kind of doesn't really care? Or like how do you see the tokenization of stocks versus having, you know, directly trading stocks? Mm-hmm.

So there are a few questions in here. Well, we'll answer them one by one. The first one, which kind of users are we tackle? who are not for or some sort of needs, right, which are not fulfilled by the previous stratified brokers. I would say it may not be a huge problem for some fully developed countries, like for example, the US,

US investors or US citizens can easily buy US stocks. But that's not true for many other parts of the world. There are so many people who can't even open a trading or broker account. with those platforms. So very troublesome KYC and if you do the traditional financial way of trading U.S. stocks, there are usually T plus two kind of settlement period. We can do, we can all kind of solve those kind of fees or time and help those users who cannot go through a who can not, for example, provide a U.S.-based proof of address.

Those sort of things is one problem that we are solving. And the second one is in terms of the money that they, you know, decided to exit from Bitcoin, they were only parking the idle money in USDT. And today, we tell our users, you don't need to necessarily park them there. You can use your USDT to buy tokenized money, market fund, for example, or tokenized U.S. stocks or some other commodities that you are bullish. I think that's the second way that we're looking at it. And a third way would be, of course, we want to, when Robin Hood and Futo, they start to offer crypto. One way to fight back is you

grab my market, I grab your market. So it's quite natural in the sense that when 2025, there are so many good service providers like Angdo, like X-Dox, who have that infrastructure and that compliance available to make sure that they are doing this in the right way that we don't mind partnering with. Of course, when we talk about tokenized U.S. stocks, one thing that people really have questioned about or are concerned with is how is this different from traditional U.S. stocks?

all the tokenized U.S. stocks versus traditional U.S. stocks, tokenized U.S. stocks, indeed, they don't have, for example, voting power, unlike the traditional U.S. stocks or the real U.S. stocks. But they do capture all the financial growth. For example, when there is dividend offered, this dividend were also reflected in the tokenized stocks price. Because underlying, for example, on those mechanisms is that, underlying, they are holding those U.S. stocks for the users.

And they have a different ways. For example, they have like a redemption mechanism so that the users can redeem the underlying U.S. stocks if they went through a KYC with UNDO. So that sort of mechanism are here to make sure that the users are indeed purchasing the real U.S. stocks rather than, you know, these two will be deep-hagging easily or it's a little bit like fake.

You really need to have a proper structure and mechanism to make sure that the tokenized U.S. stocks are packed to the U.S. stocks and also the financial gains are all reflected here. And we make sure that we look at all these different product offerings to, as we get, we want to partner with, the best service providers there. Yeah, yeah. And so you've, the university exchange, right?

That's kind of your guys' vision, which seems very much on this point. University exchange, like, how do you define that vision? And like, what does a long-term sort of the end state of the university exchange look like? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, by the way, it is a long-term version. not just like a 2025 kind of marketing campaign or marketing idea that we came up with. Why we think this is, this way, we are bullish on this concept in the long run,

is that, again, today the lines between U.S. stocks and crypto, or the line between, you know, crypto stocks, commodities, is gradually integrating. And in my opinion, this line will effectively disappear. And in the future, crypto exchanges will all offer

some sort of on-chain access to equities, commodities, and indices. Well, similarly, traditional stock exchanges and banks are moving toward offering crypto trading and custody, like Robin Hood, for example. So as this kind of trading infrastructure converges, all these assets will be less differentiated

by the idea of crypto versus stratify, which in my opinion is more like a labor, but more defined by the liquidity, the accessibility, the settlement efficiency, etc. Even if you are a U.S. stock, But look at the market, how many U.S. stocks have the liquidity better than, for example, we don't even need to talk Bitcoin, maybe Solana. You know, so it's not just like this kind of category.

It's more about in general, how's this asset performing in the long run and how's the liquidity in this asset that's needed or traded. by many users around the world. So this convergence will eventually unlock all the cross-border capital flows and will increase liquidity for traditionally regional assets and, of course, normalize this 24-7 global trading as a baseline expectation. Today, we all offer our U.S. stocks in 24-5 kind of time already to our global users. So of course, recently, decentralized exchanges have also gotten a lot of traction, especially hyperliquid,

and they've also started introducing, you know, stock ratings and, you know, I think listing other types of assets. How do you see the competition from decentralized exchanges? Mm-hmm. Actually, the competition from DX for me is not really much. What I mean by that is in 2022, I've already seen. DEX started to have some volume from especially FTX collapse when people lost faith and credibility and trust in CX. Of course, all the CECS worked together to rebuild that trust. But from 2022, we've already seen that trend coming up.

And that's why, to go back to our earlier story about how I get to know the Biggettee team, is that Biggett was already placing strategic investment into decentralized wallet. and decentralized exchange already. That's why we acquired the bigger wallet, big keep and rebranded into bigger wallet. So we see DX and CEX more as integration rather than pure competitor. For example, from a user's perspective,

most of the users will enter crypto industry through a CX because of a 24-7 customer service because of much easier on-off ramp, while when they cannot buy some tokens which are listed on CX, today, Binus, OkNX probably offer about 200 to 300 cryptocurrencies. We have 700 cryptocurrencies available on our CX. So when users cannot buy, cannot find the volume that they, the token that they want to trade on CX, they went to DX.

That's why we have our bigger wallet to capture that volume. But in total, I don't really think it's like a competition. It's more of integration of different users' journey or certain other users need. And another thing that I'm also viewing from Rania-CEX versus the DEX point of view is compliance and KYC. Today, most of the major CEX are requiring all the users to do KYC because we also don't want to get us into trouble with regulators. And for Beget, we think the future landscape or the future competitiveness of run your CEX will be, you have to be compliant.

Otherwise, you can't offer, for example, triad-fired products, and you will get into trouble with lots of regulators and being fined or even present. Today, we don't see the regulators tracing after the DEX, but they are chasing after CX. So there are some certain volume or users who don't want to do KIC may go to DX. But I don't think that will be sustainable. I think one day regulators, especially the U.S. regulators, will also chase after the DEX, especially PURPX, et cetera, who don't do KYC. So I don't think that's going to be, you know, any big issue.

For us, again, we want to grow the pie bigger rather than just cutting pie width from each other. So one way to grow the pie bigger is to offer more products, especially valuable products that our users want to trade. And that's why we are working hard to build on our RWEs. Does that make sense from, you know, our CX point of view? Yeah. And then you are also, I think you mentioned in your breakpoint talk that you guys are listing, like lots of Solano assets sort of on Big Get.

So you also kind of try to integrate. It's not unique. It's more of permissionless integration. Like enabling, we've enabled at that time only five public chains, but today six public chains, which are all the base chain, all the, sorry, all the base chain enabled contract address. basically any token that's offered on Solana, base, Ethereum, BSC, Morf and Monard. So all these six tokens, or sorry, six chains token are all permissionless tradable on BigGET.

And but then the liquidity is on the decentralized exchange. It's on the D. Yeah. So you basically access like uniswap or something like that. That lets you say we take BigGet in our eyes. Biggat wallet, etc. Yeah. Let's talk about AI a bit.

What do you think is the role or like what's the role for AI today in BigGed? How do you guys use AI? AI's role today in Biggat is definitely very, very prominent. We use AI on both trading behaviors or providing trading tours to our users, as well as an operational point of view. Let me give you a few examples. From the trading's perspective, because our users want to use AI tool

to analyze their portfolio or analyze certain cryptocurrency and their trends, so we provided something called a get agent, which is a crypto advisory tool for our users. On Solana Breakpoint, I also mentioned an example that about a year ago when I asked Bigger, sorry, I think it's decided Solana Breakhorn, maybe another event in Dubai.

But basically, I told some people that about a year and a half ago, when I asked Chad GPT, give me 10 tokens that I should invest in. And keep in mind, I'm a low-risk profile person. Yet, Chad GPT gave me Luna, which obviously collapsed already in 2020. because I asked them in 2004, but that happened in 2022. Because all these general AI tool or AI LLMs, one limitation of them is they have a cutoff line for their knowledge. And they are not crypto specific. But crypto, in our industry, everything is 24-7.

Everything changes so fast. And there is new concept coming up every day. you can't base your study and your trading kind of advisor from someone who is not targeting this industry. And that's why we build a get agent. For example, today when you ask Biggets get agent, what's Bitcoin's price and what's your know-how, what's your suggestion on whether I should buy or buy yourself today? you will give you a very thorough analysis, fundamentals, technicals, and also the price is very up to dated

to even seconds because the underlying API is linked to our current trading price. Is that like a specialized model that's trained? Yeah, it is a specialized agent. And underlying there are, I think, 40 different LOMs and APIs supporting this AI. Okay, okay, okay, interesting.

Yeah, I think that will be, I guess it's a tricky one too, no? Because probably it will still be wrong very often about what to do. So, yeah, it is tricky, but I've already, I've also tried it myself many times and asked many of our, for example, KOWs for feedback. I think what I heard a lot,

from our audience or users is that it's at least better than just, you know, human kind of thinking. It gives you also a very thorough analysis. No one can really predict, you know, whatever price, right, even if you are Warren Buffett. But what AI does is to give you different perspective for that you can make better decisions. and you can see certain blind points that you didn't really realize. I think that's a great way of using it. And also attract different, sorry, not attract, but like get or gather different information source. I think that's another great way of using it.

But those are all for trading in terms of Big Get's operational. Eos that we talked about, SEO, AEO are not enough. GEOs are the new trend. that exchanges are using to attract users. In certain regions, for example, Southeast Asia and some other countries in Europe, we see GEO attracting more than 40% of our users today. So more than 40% of those users come from GEO rather than SEO, new users. And I'm curious, what do you do to rank well in AI systems?

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, my AI team will give you a much better and thorough analysis. But my general understanding is that, number one, you have to feed the AI or different LOMs information that, number one, they want to accept. And number two, of course, are, you know, slightly better towards your own platform. What I mean by that is you can't only give AI. information, something like, you know, Begett is great, Begett's grace is beautiful, you know, something only positive about your platform. You have to give them information that are quite

subjective. Like you can write about maybe top five exchanges and then, you know, fit in begets information on, for example, AI's development, for example, UEX, so that the AI will firstly

think, okay, this is a very neutral kind of piece of information. And of course, they will, and when we write it, we also want to be neutral. When we write about our competitors, we talk about their good, their positive things as well. We try not to share down any of our competitors. We try to be very collaborative. But for example, that's a good way of looking at AI optimization. You want to give them neutral pieces of information that,

also include your own platform, include begets, own ability and differentiation factors like UEX and AI. Okay, okay, cool. Well, we are almost at the end of, as we record this, almost at the end of 2025. So as you look to next year, what are your feelings, predictions for where things are going? this can have different angles. Do we want to talk about more cryptocurrency price or different sectors in the industry?

Let's talk about both. Let's talk about the market first. How do you view the market? Okay. Market-wise, I personally think there are about 70% possibility that there is still another bull market, mainly due to the interest rate cut

and more fed QE, quantitative easing. So definitely macro rather than micro. And then maybe 20% or ish, 15% kind of probability that this is a bear market already and it's going to be bare for a long time. And another 15% or 10% thinking, it will just stay flat for a while. rather than going to dip.

Yeah, but I'm definitely more bullish than bearish in this point of view because I think there's still some sort of liquidity coming from the U.S. Rather than, and also Bitcoin price versus gold, this year has been pretty low. So I'm more bullish than Barish in terms of 26 in terms of the market price. I even think Bitcoin can potentially hit 150, if not 130, at least, you know, pass all-time high if the interest rate continues goes down and more liquidity come from the U.S. are released. And of course, today Bitcoin's price is largely affected by the Wall Street's prediction

and their sentiment rather than purely crypto-native communities. And is any question around that? Because I think this is a little bit controversial in a way. And of course, nobody can really tell. I'm trying my best to give my point of view. Yeah, I mean, I would personally kind of agree with you, right? Because also the sentiment is pretty bad. And at the same time, the macro condition should be getting better.

So I think there is a bit. The question, to what extent that also applies to their old coins, right? Because I think we saw this year even so many old coins are struggling so much. And the retail interest doesn't really seem to be there very much. So I'm wondering, and I'm curious how you see that, I'm wondering what it will take to get a lot of just normal retail traders to come back to crypto. How do you see that? While me being relatively bullish on Bitcoin price and maybe large blue chip tokens,

I'm quite bearish on the altcoins. This is actually quite controversial, especially given that Bigged as an exchange, are offering lots of old coins. I personally think that the very early stage Web3 projects are very hard to survive in the current market because the cryptocurrency's major capital inflow comes from, again, Wall Street. And those money come to our industry because of DAT, digital asset treasuries and ETFs. Rather, and this money are not floating into the all coins. So the retail investors who are treating all coins has a terrible risk-reward ratio. There may be and there will be.

still maybe five or 10 or even 100 different all coins, which increase by 100 times. But many, many or most, maybe 99.9% of the outcoins will not be performing as well, especially given, you know, Palm, Fong, etc., kind of launchpad platform, just make it so easy to issue a new coin. Today, there are maybe 100,000 more all coins coming up today every day. And the outcoins that are already offered on CEX, most of them are not performing as well as Bitcoin in this current cycle. So I think all coins are fading and the so-called all-coin season may not even come in 2025 or 2026. But of course, they are still, you know, some small memes and here and there, they are gains.

But most of them are not be, are not, it's not just something quite general. But there are exceptions for projects that I'm bullish on. I think the infrastructure projects with real world resource and realward value, such as stable coin payment, RWAs, I think I'm quite bullish on them. But I think those kind of projects, most of them won't even issue a token. They may do IPO if they can. And the same goes to us. We are also trying to think about being a listed company and be more mainstream and be more compliant

rather than just focusing on the relatively small market of our coin market. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think it's a very difficult environment. And I mean, recently we saw, I think, Circle, right, acquiring a project called Axelor. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's the interoperability project that wasn't even doing that bad, I think. Like, you know, the market cap was fully liquid, 150 million FDB, some trading, some usage of the product. but then it's kind of the team just basically acquired by circle, and then you sort of don't know what's going to happen with the token,

almost might be a bit abandoned. And so I think it's just very difficult, I think, for tokens to survive, which is completely shift, right? Because for a long time in crypto, nobody wanted to invest in equity. Everyone wanted just tokens. And that's, yeah, it's completely changing, I think, now. Yeah. I think a reason behind it is, again, crypto is more mainstream and the pricing power of this industry is becoming more mainstream. It's more, we have 2 VC and West Street secondary money market funds, sorry, secondary funds rather than pure crypto-native users or project funders or C-X. It's a good thing about it, our industry, in my opinion.

People may not fully agree with that, but I think being more mainstream and be able to, you know, fight with traditional financial industry players. That's where the real big money is, rather than, you know, smaller group that we are two, maybe slightly too focusing on. Do you see any areas within crypto that, you know, you think they're going to do extremely well in the next one or two years and that people are not paying enough attention to? I mentioned a few. I definitely think stable coins are Ws and payment solutions. If they have a valid product market fit and strong user base, they are going to do pretty well. as for very crypto-native kind of narrative, such as, you know, Game Fight, Social Fight, DEP, L1, L2, etc. At least the current market and the current product they are offering, I don't really see strong

product market fit, and hence I'm not very bullish on. Cool. Well, and what about what's your biggest priority, your biggest goal for next year? For next year, one big step that we are working hard on is compliance, especially getting our MECA license down and build the whole fully compliant, European sort of department and infrastructure for a, for our exchange. Another market we are paying close attention to is the US market. So we are still internally debating and thinking about launching our US operations website. It's a large market, but the company is called its cost is relatively high. And there are also large competitors like, you know, Coinbase, Robin Hood, etc. So how to compete with them is definitely a question.

that I've been thinking very, very hard. But launching and building our EU exchange, as well as U.S. exchange, are two priorities I have right now. And, of course, continue growing our user base, continue offering good products. I'm actually quite looking forward into what we can build in 2020. Because in 2025, we've had some very interesting product offering, such as, you know, get agent and tokenized U.S. stocks. Those are some of the things that I've never thought about in earlier years.

So, 2026 could be also very challenging and interesting, and especially being able to, you know, offer something that our users love is just one thing I love about running this exchange and being the CEO bigger. Cool. Thank you so much for joining us, Grace. It was really great to talk with you and learn a bit more about Bigot and excited to see how the platforms can evolve

in the next year. Lovely. Thanks.