Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - Catharine Arnston’s Algae Revolution and the Quest for Better Health

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

Catharine Arnston, the visionary entrepreneur behind EnergyBits, shares her fascinating journey from a 25-year career in corporate America to revolutionizing the health and wellness industry with algae tablets. With academic credentials from Canada's Ivy School of Business and a PhD in natural health, Catharine's transition was fueled by personal experiences, including her sister's battle with cancer. Her unwavering determination to discover the immense nutritional benefits of algae has led to significant advancements in the wellness space, challenging traditional notions of health supplements.   Join us as Catharine opens up about the trials and triumphs of building her business from the ground up. She candidly discusses the challenges she faced, from enduring personal bankruptcy to pivoting her business strategy to survive in a competitive market. Her story is a compelling testament to the power of resilience and adaptability, shedding light on how she rebranded her company and tapped into the sports nutrition market. Catharine's journey is a masterclass in persistence and innovation, providing invaluable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs.   Explore the transformative potential of algae supplements as Catharine delves into their health benefits, from boosting brain health to enhancing insulin sensitivity. Her discussion on spirulina and chlorella offers a fresh perspective on strategic supplementation and underscores the importance of quality sourcing. As Catharine's business continues to thrive, her insights into optimizing health through algae serve as an inspiration for those seeking to break free from the ordinary and pursue their entrepreneurial dreams.   CHAPTERS    (00:00) - Building a Successful Algae Tablet Business (03:58) - From Ivy League to Algae Innovation (15:09) - Launching an Algae Tablet Business (21:57) - Surviving Bankruptcy and Pivoting (24:57) - The Evolution of Business Innovation (35:57) - Nutrients in Algae for Health (45:03) - Optimizing Health Through Algae Supplements   💬 Did you enjoy this podcast episode? Tell us all about it in the comment section below!    ☑️  If you liked this video, consider subscribing to Escaping The Drift with John Gafford  ************* 💯 About John Gafford: After appearing on NBC's "The Apprentice", John relocated to the Las Vegas Valley and founded several successful companies in the real estate space.   ➡️ The Gafford Group at Simply Vegas, top 1% of all REALTORS nationwide in terms of production. Simply Vegas, a 500 agent brokerage with billions in annual sales Clear Title, a 7-figure full-service title and escrow company.   *************   ✅ Follow John Gafford on social media:   Instagram ▶️ / thejohngafford   Facebook ▶️ / gafford2   🎧 Stream The Escaping The Drift Podcast with John Gafford Episode here: Listen On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7cWN80gtZ4m4wl3DqQoJmK?si=2d60fd72329d44a9 Listen On Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/escaping-the-drift-with-john-gafford/id1582927283    *************   #escapingthedrift #catharinearnston #entrepreneurship #healthandwellness #algaesupplements #nutrition #resilience #adaptability #businessinnovation #spirulina #chlorella #qualitysourcing #branding #marketdemand #persistence #adaptability #mitochondria #brainhealth #insulinsensitivity #diabetes #multivitamins #d3k2 #fishoil #curcumin #strategicsupplementation

Obviously, this is doing incredibly well. You guys are built an amazing company. If you go back and do one thing different, what would it be? What would I do differently? And now, escaping the drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford, and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the drift. And it's time to start right now.

and get back again for another episode of like it says in the opening man, the podcast that gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today, live in the studio, ladies and jents, we have somebody that's got an interesting little business here, man, that's going to be a big, big business. She is somebody that came out of corporate America. She has a PhD in natural health, an MBA. I mean, all of this stuff. This is a smart lady. I mean, she's a smart cookie and had a really cool job. And all of a sudden, she decided, you know what? After 25 years the corporate America. I'm done. I'm going to go teach people how to get healthy eating algae. She is the founder of bits, energy bits, which are algae tablets. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome

the program. This is Catherine Arnston. Catherine, welcome to Vegas. Oh, yeah. Vegas, baby. Vegas, yeah. Glad to have you. I hope you are winning. You're winning more than you're losing. Oh, well, yes, I'm winning in life. Yeah, that's good. I took my big gamble as an entrepreneur, starting a company in an industry that we're doing something that nobody believed was possible. And it's taken me a while, 15 years, but it's clearly, I won my hand. You've won your hand, which I like. Yeah. Well, let's go back. So, so obviously, I mean, you look at the accolades here. I mean, where did you go to school? I mean, all of this stuff. I'm actually Canadian. Okay. And so all my education up until recently, the PhD was in Canada.

So my MBA was at a school called the Ivy School of Business, which is Canada's version, excuse me, of Harvard. And I did my undergrad at Queens, but most people don't know those schools, but they are really good schools. And then I moved to the United States. I've lived in Boston, Massachusetts for 35 years, although I recently, just last year, relocated to Miami because I just got tired of being cold. Too cold. Yeah, it's definitely. Well, here's the question, coming from Boston, though. How is your, when did you moved up, Miami?

When did you move there? Well, I bought, you know, years ago in a pre-construction, but I started living there this January. Okay. And it was, it's been heaven. Okay. No, I was going to say, though, because this is the first summer, though. Yeah, yeah.

First summer. It's been pretty good so far. Has it been? Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny. I'm a born and raised Floridian myself. Are you really? I did.

North Florida. But, you know, I have family in Pompano, family and Boko, family all through there, and Miami now proper. And I can tell you now, even as a born Floridian, living here, when I get off the plane in Florida in the summer, I can't breathe. Yeah. It's humidity just hits you right in the finish. But I like it because I just, I was so tired of being cold. So anyways, I'm, so I'm in Miami.

Any hurricanes yet? Not yet, but this will be my first season. Welcome to Florida. Here comes. Check back with me next year. You know, it's funny. Well, I'll tell you, I'm going to warn you about some stuff with hurricanes if you don't know.

So people don't understand this. When hurricanes come, like everything, everything stops. Yes. Like, everything closes for even if you're like, When I moved to, when I moved to Vegas, I lived in Tampa prior, and we never had, we hadn't had a major storm come spinning through Tampa Bay in forever. But literally, even the storm gets close to you, like, everything closes. Yeah. And it's just shut down.

And people come from other parts of the world and they don't realize, like, well, the storm didn't even really hit here. Why is everything closed? Yeah. It's like, because that's just how it is. Yeah. Yeah. That's why people are going to need to buy algae because it will feed you and nourish you through, well, forever. But if you can't get to the grocery store and you're hungry and you need something, you just pop, feel those tablets.

and you're good to go. And that's it. And that's it. So let's back. You went to the Ivy, you went to the Ivy School and you got an MBA there. Yeah. That's pretty impressive.

So who recruit, so right out of school, who recruited you? It's McKinsey. It's all, it's like the Harvard of Canada, like I said. But,

and I wanted to go to the state. So I got recruited, um, and I moved, uh, by actually a Canadian got one of our governments and I moved to Manhattan. So I lived in Manhattan for two years.

Very cool. Had a great time. Apparently did such a good job. They promoted me to move me to Boston. I felt like I was going out to the, boonies, but Boston grew on me. It's a charming city, lovely, historical city. And I lived in an area called Beacon Hill, which is very, very old. Is that where the, what is it, the Paul Revere trail? Is that? No, no, the Freedom Trail. Freedom Trail is near there. Yeah. And Boston is

lovely, but it's also very medical, and I'm in the nutrition, holistic health area. And I just got, like I said, I just got tired of being cold. Miami is becoming a wellness center. So it's a really great place for me for my business. And I just enjoy the, um, the climate so far. So the question is, so you had your MBA. I mean, we're going from heavy business focus. Yeah. And then we're, we wind up on algae. So how do we get from there? I know. Yeah. It's like, well, no, I used to, I used to be a surgeon and now I paint motorcycles. Yeah. Right. What? Yeah. Tell me how that. Yeah. So I, um, so what happened was I only have two sisters, one older, one younger, and close to both of them, and they're both in Canada.

And 17 years ago, my younger sister, my baby sister, developed breast cancer. And her oncologist told her to change her diet to an alkaline diet because it wouldn't be important for her healing. They didn't tell her exactly what it did or why it was good for her, or what it was. So the first call she made was to me, her big sister, I'm just a really good researcher and I love my sister. So I said, I have no idea what this alkaline diet is and stuff is, but I will find out. I'll figure it out.

And I went on the internet and anyone could. And it turned out to be a plant-based diet. So I found, because of the chlorophyll and the phytonutrients that are proven to build your immune system, and she was going to do chemo. So her oncologist, which is a cancer specialist, wanted her to have a strong immune system. But as I was doing more research, I found that apparently there's a German scientist by the name of Otto Warburg, who in the 30s won a Nobel Prize for discovering that cancer cannot exist in cells that are slightly alkaline. There's a scale of zero to 14, and slightly alkaline means slightly over seven.

So the fact that her oncologist recommended an alkaline diet to protect the other cells from having the cancer move into them, I thought was pretty important. So anyway, she changed her diet, went to chemo. I learned so much about plant-based nutrition. This was 17 years ago. Nobody was talking about it then. And not a lot of Internet sites for this back then. So I'm just a crazy high-energy problem solving. Where were you researching this?

Online. Okay. Online. Yeah. You know, the Internet was around. You know what's funny? I get it's so funny. You get to a certain age and you're like 17 years ago, like in reality, wasn't that long ago.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I guess we're, God, yeah, it's like 2010 almost. Yeah. Yeah. But like, you throw out 17 years and my brain goes to 1980. My brain goes like 1985. Yeah. Yeah.

Nope, it's 2027. It was, yeah. So anyways, so I thought I should do something about this. but I had no money at the time because I gave out my corporate career to help my sister, and I knew nothing about it. So I enrolled in a place called the Institute for Integrative Nutrition in New York, which was for a certificate in health coaching. So I went through that, and then I put my own curriculum together.

This is what led me to algae. I put my curriculum together, and I taught plant-based nutrition at corporations and hospitals. But people were literally laughing at me, because I was telling them to eat more vegetables. And they said, oh, my mother's been trying to get me marred vegetables. But they give me gas. They're too much work. They're heavy to carry home with the grocery store. My kids won't eat them.

My husband won't eat them. Like a thousand reasons. They go bad. So I thought, okay, I've seen the health benefits of vegetables. If I can't get people to eat vegetables, I need to find a way to give them the nutrition in a way that doesn't take a lot of time, doesn't give them gas, doesn't taste terrible. And I didn't know how I was going to do it, but back to everything I found for my sister.

and I just went deeper, and that's when I got to algae, because it turns out algae's been endorsed by NASA for 50 years as the most nutrient-dense food in the world. We have a quote saying, one gram of algae has the same nutrition as a thousand grams of nutrition in fruits and vegetables, one to a thousand. Really? Yep. I can give you the paper with a quote in it. We found out the United Nations has endorsed spiruline algae.

We're going to talk about the different algae, one spirulina and the other one's clorella. For 50 years, there's a global conference. online, you can see the results of this conference, and they declared spirulina the answer to world hunger. Why? Because it has the highest concentration of protein in the world. It has three times the amount of protein as steak, chicken, and fish. There is nothing in the world with more protein than spirulina algae. Yes, ours is 64% protein. Animal protein is about 32%. Next, turns out there's 100,000 studies documenting all the health benefits. of spiruline and chloral algae. Everything from preventing heart disease, preventing Alzheimer's,

preventing inflammation, preventing accelerated aging, just getting rid of toxins. Endless, 100,000 studies. That's a big number. Turns out it's a agricultural crop. Yes, there's algae in the ocean and the aquarium and other places, but it's grown as a food crop in Asia. This is grown in hydroponically, so it's in freshwater. So yes, there's algae in the ocean. The stuff you, you're spiruline and Coral, if you buy it from Trader Joe's or from us, it's grown in freshwater ponds, then air dried and pressed into tablets. So it's been used safely in other countries for 60 years. 99% of all algae is grown in Asia. But the best part of it all is that it came in these little tiny tablets are about the size of baby Astrum. And each one of these tablets has the same nutrition as an

entire plate of vegetables. So while I'm talking to you right now, I just had a plate of vegetables. That one little thing. That one little thing. Now, most people do swallow them, and you do need a minimum of 10 to make a difference in your help. Now, I like to chew them. But now, now if you swallow them, there is zero flavor. So wait a second. So if you need 10 of them, why does it have the same nutrition as a plate of vegetables?

Because I use that quote from NASA, one gram. So I took the measurement of the, we sell them in large bags of 1,000 tablets. And one bag has the same nutrition as 551 pounds of vegetables. I didn't know anyone with me, but that's 30 grocery cards of food is contained in one bag. This is why preppers buy it, you know, people probably with hurricanes, because it is the most nourishing food in the universe, but nobody knows that. So I use that quote from NASA to calculate the concentration. It's a little under a pound of vegetables per tablet.

Okay. So, and I'd like to chew them, but most people do swallow them. So now, and by the way, they last, the expiry day is three years. So vegetables go bad after three days. Algae tablets, ours last three years. People don't like vegetables because they don't like the taste. There is zero taste if you swallow them. It's, if you chew them, obviously something.

If you chew it, they're a little algae taste. It's green, I will admit. Sure. People are taking, like you said, before we started, you're taking like 20 or 30 supplements. This can replace, there's 40 vitamins and minerals. This can replace your multivitamin, your CO-10, your fish oil, your collagen powder, your biotin, there's five right there. So you can eliminate.

I take, well, yeah, you mentioned three of those I already take. Yeah. So, and this is food. Those are supplements are made in factories, in many cases, from synthetics. But your body has a hard time recognizing and absorbing because it's not what you eat. It's what you absorb. So bottom line is with all the science, with all the international endorsements, the fact that it's food, fact that's been taken.

daily in Asia for 60 years where it's a multi-billion dollar industry. The fact that it has all the attributes and gives you all the things, it gives you the fiber. It has fiber in it. So it gives you the fiber of, why do people eat vegetables? Because they want the fiber, which helps with bowel movements, and they want the chlorophyll. Algae has the highest chlorophyll in the world. Chlorella algae is called chlorale because of the chlorophyll. By the way, chlorophyll in your hemoglobin, the chemical composition are virtually identical. So chlorophyll builds your blood, but our vegetables don't even have any chlorophyll anymore. So there's zero benefit of chlorophyll. You know, you can get chlorophyll water, but algae has 25 times more chlorophyll than chlorophyll water and 500 times more

chlorophyll than arugula. So why do you take vegetables for the fiber, chloralella stimulates. We'll talk about the different benefits, but chloral stimulates bowel movements. So you get all the benefits of vegetables without having to eat them. And there's one calorie per tablet. You can travel with this. You can't travel with a big bag. full of broccoli anywhere and who does anyways. I can't eat a lot of vegetables because they give me gas. As you get older, people have a hard time digesting vegetables. Mothers, they fight with their kids to try to get them to eat vegetables and you just give them a few of these. You never have to worry again. Guys go crazy the fact they don't have to eat vegetables anymore. Are you

kidding me? And if you're a partier, and you were here in Vegas, baby, Chlorella pulls out toxins. We'll talk about the two different algae, but Chlorella pulls out toxins, heavy metals, glyphosate pesticides and yes drum roll alcohol when you take 30 of these after any kind of alcohol beer wine spirits you are stone sober in an hour and a half and you will never have a hangover ever really ever yep that i mean that's the market here yeah so let me see you eat 10 of these do you eat 10 of both of consulate way more than that and i've been taking them for 15 years so i so 10 of what's the rest of the diet what's the rest of your diet well um i um i eat a whole full food. So I'm not carnivore. I'm not vegan. I'm not anything. I just eat real food. I can't be

any processed food because I'm so clean and so healthy that it upsets my stomach. Seat oils give me stomach digest. So I eat eggs. I eat grass-fed beef. I don't eat a lot of fruit because I can't eat a lot of sugar. I really do intermittent fasting. So these are really great for intermittent fasting because they don't break a fast. There's no carbs. So you can, and so they're ketogenic. So I usually intermittent fast, although when I'm traveling, I usually do eat breakfast because I never know what I'm going to eat next. So they won't bring up because I'm a 36-hour fast guy. God bless you. Yeah. Yeah. This is fantastic for fasting because especially when people are getting into fasting because they're worried about being hungry. Spirolina, you will never be hungry

because it's the highest protein in the world, loaded with essential fatty acids. So it satisfies your hunger, stops cravings, and has nutrients in here that build your brain and improves your focus. So I was on an entrepreneur's podcast yesterday. And entrepreneurs, we worked long hours. Well, you're an entrepreneur. Long hours. 16. Yeah. Yeah. And you're running around. You don't have time to eat properly. And if you're eating in a rush, you're probably standing up and you're probably not digesting properly. And you have gas. So it's not pretty. So this is your answer. You just, you pop 10 or 15 or 20, 30 for lunch. 30 is 30 calories. There's one calorie per tablet. But fully nourished, so spirulina is, I call your nutritional insurance because it gives your body everything that it needs.

You could live on this forever. You would not even need any other food if you didn't want to. And then Clorella, which is a detoxing wellness algae. I call it your wellness, your health insurance. This is your nutritional insurance. This is your health insurance. This pulls out toxins, heavy metals, glyphosate, alcohol, athletes use it because it pulls out lactic acid. They use spirulina as a pre-workout.

This is a post-workout. It also has the highest tryptophan in the world, which is a precursor to melatonin. So this helps you sleep. This helps you with bowel movements. This is what fiber does. This has fiber. This stimulates what's fancy word is periostalysis, but it's basically a bowel movement. So helps you poop.

Helps you sleep, helps you poop. Yeah, we're not that sophisticated in an audience here, so we're good. So, and let's face it, people like to party. I absolutely promise you this will save your party life. All right, well, let's go back and talk. So I think I have a good understanding of what the product does. I'm going to talk with the business of the product, right? Because a lot of our listeners out there that have, you know, hey, man, I want to start

a business. I want to do something. And this is something that, you know, you started, walk me through. Let's whiteboard this house. Sure. Let's take me back to like, you know what? I think I like this algae stuff through my research. I think it's good.

Were you buying another product that was similar? Was there nothing available? Did you see a hole in the market? So the first thing I did. Yes, I did see a hole in the market. So I went online to see. what other companies were selling and how they packaged it, where they sourced it from. I went to some shows. I met some of these companies. And, you know, this was 15 years ago.

And the packaging was dumpy. I mean, algae has been sold in America for 60 years. And it's a multi-billion dollar industry in Asia, but it has never taken off here. So you have to scratch yourself and go, well, why? First of all, it's not grown here. So nobody knows about it. the number one. There, you can't go to school or work without driving by an algae farm. Here we have soy and wheat and whatever. So when I saw the way they were packaging it, if you went to a health food store, it would be on the bottom shelf, covered with dust, looked like, you know, had worm guts in it. It was like the branding was terrible. Terrible. If you want to sell something to America, it's got to be pretty. It's got to be jazzy. It's got to

be sexy. It's got to get their attention. So none of that was happening. So first of all, I thought, okay, I can certainly do better than that, because I also did a stint in the interior design industry. So I have a really good design. Then I saw that all of it was coming from India or China, but then I started reading about the better algae came from Taiwan. But 99% of what was sold in America came from these crappy places. So I thought, I'm going to find a better source for algae, which I did. So once I figured out that it needed to be explained better, there was no explanation that nobody else is. Nobody's telling the story.

Nobody else is telling the story. Certainly needed to be branded better. And my background was in branding and marketing. And then I had some design work. I thought, I can do this. I know it's not going to be easy, but I can do this. So I just hunkered down, and I had to learn the science of why this worked so well. Well, let's back up because now, when you're looking at this, did you, like, a lot of people

have, like, trophies in their office, right? Like, look at my awards. I got this or I got that word. My office is filled of disaster. So I have little mementos of mistakes that I made in business. And one of the things that sits on my desk is I have a $100,000 bottle of vitamins on my desk. Oh, God. Because many, many years ago.

You invested in one? No, my sister and I were like, let's start a nutritional supplement MLM without ever asking anybody if anybody wanted it. Yeah. And so that was like, my thing was like, make sure there's a market for this before you dive head first. So what market research did you did to establish a market? Did you maybe tease the market with stuff you didn't have like a Kickstarter idea? I actually didn't do that.

You just went headfirst in. Well, what I did, and I was by myself for literally five years, because I wanted to be sure. What year is this? So this was 2010 is when I started the company, so literally 15 years ago, right? But my sister was sick the two years previous, and then I had to go to school, and then I did the education, and which led me to algae. So I read the science, and I was convinced there was something that everybody was missing because the science showed that this stuff. was a game changer for people's health, absolutely full stop game changer. And I decided I didn't care how long it was going to take me. I was going to bring this to market because we needed it.

And that was even before the current health crisis, nutrition crisis, environmental crisis, because it was 15 years ago. So I didn't do any market research. I just knew it needed to be brought to market. And I was going to do my damnedest to outsmart all those food companies that have been poisoning us with their calculated food engineering. So damn the torpedoes, I'm doing this. Damn the torpedoes. Burn the bridges, burn the boats. Okay.

There was no B plan. What was the budget? I had no budget. Okay. So you bootstrap this? You'd bootstrap this or you get investors. I completely bootstrap. I did take, I had six checks for $10,000 15 years ago.

Okay. And after that, and I use every single. Can we talk about that? Where did the checks come from? Friends. Okay. Just friends. And I had convertible notes.

Okay. No, no, this is interesting. So now, because there's people that are listening, like when I started business, walk me through the process of going from I have this idea to sitting down with your friends and having a compelling enough pitch for them to write you checks for $10,000. Yeah. Well, when I was dating one guy. Okay.

Date rich guys. There's number one date rich guy. Check that one off the list. Well, I did, so I did, you know, I went through the science. and I showed, I wrote a deck, you know, you have to write a deck, and I showed pictures of all the crappy packaging other people did, and, you know, the rates of heart disease escalating, the rates of cancer escalating, clearly there was no solution on the current radar, and I've, I've worked a long time, I mean, and people trusted my judgment. So these are people

have known me for a long time. These weren't just people I met last year. And I had started two other companies prior. Okay. So you did, successful? Well, successful enough. Enough. But not one, we had to shut it down because it was in the interior design industry and I needed more.

And I did take investors for that. And we needed lots of inventory, which required lots of money because it was furniture. Well, I think, I think the lesson here is if you, it's more importantly, it's more important for you to be investable as a human than have a good idea. Yeah. Like, they were probably writing your checks because of you. And at the time, 10,000 did sound like a lot of money. Yeah.

And now that I'm a multi-million dollar business, it's not actually that much. Yeah. But these people could afford it. They were very, very wealthy anyways. But more importantly, they knew me. They were betting on you. And one was somebody I went to my, and did my MBA with. And so she was one of, and so she became one of my investors.

So, but she had seen me at school. You run just about everything at school. So, yeah, I had a personal track record with these people. I didn't ask for a lot of money. And they've been made. So no luck. You earned those through reputation. You earned that.

So that's where that money came from. But the rest of it, and just to, you know, might as well spill the beans. I was so committed to this, but I had used up all of my own savings. I ran dry. I declared personal bankruptcy. I mean, it was the most horrifying thing in my life here. I am from this fancy MBA school in Canada, and I had to declare bankruptcy because I didn't have a dime to do this. I mean, I didn't go out for dinner for two years. I ate eggs and algae,

and guess what my favorite two foods are still? Eggs and algae, but I can afford just about anything I want. But, um, and I, my condo was in, uh, foreclosure for three years. My car was repossessed, but I refused to give up because I burned the bridges. There, I love that. There was no going back. I was, I was going to tough it out. No, but, but dude, I love that part of the story because, like, people listen to this and you hear, oh, the NBA, blah, blah, fancy school, this and this. I mean, now you hear that and like, okay, you were starting at less than zero, not zero. Less than zero. You were starting less than zero.

Because when you're, when you go declare bankruptcy, you get no credit cards. Oh, yeah. For 10 years. Oh, yeah. That was on my credit rating for 10 years. It's gone now. Yeah, of course. But nonetheless, it was a, I just knew if I could do this, it would be a game changer for the world.

absolute full stop. So I just toughed it out. And, you know, I did things like when I went to shows, conferences, I didn't have any money. I would take my trade show booth thing on a bus in the winter in Boston. Not an easy thing to do. Oh, and I have a very funny story to tell you. And all entrepreneurs, what you need to know is whatever original idea you have, I can almost promise you, that's not the winner. You will need to pivot. You will pivot in so many ways. You won't believe it. So I'm going to tell you a few of my pivots because some of them are pretty funny. Great. So remember how I said I was first, I gave lectures on plant-based nutrition.

Yes. And so in the lecture, I would tell people what not to eat. Like do not eat dairy, do not eat, you know, whatever. So I became known, you love this, as the not eat nutritionist. Well, when you say that quickly, it sounds like the not-eat nutritionist. The naughty nutritionist. Noddy Nutritionist. That was my business name.

The naughty. And guess what we sold. The naughty nutritionist? We sold naughty bits. Oh my God. This is the absolute truth. I trademarked it. The naughty nutritionist.

And you can still find it probably online. I mean, it's hilarious. Listen, listen, there are a few things in this life that I protect more than anything else. I protect my family. I protect my bank account. And I protect my Google search history. because, and I don't think anybody needs to find me searching for the nodding nutrition in my Google search history.

I haven't mentioned it, but it's pretty funny. And I just, you know, I love helping entrepreneurs, but they, there's people think it's, you know, entrepreneurship is glamorous. Yes, there are moments, but most of it's just grind and it depends on how committed you are to what your vision is. And you have to pivot when things. So what happened was I did file the patent. I own the patent, but it turns out that there was a woman, she was like 70 years old.

at the time in Nevada or somewhere, she called herself the naughty nutritionist. This woman did not look naughty at all. She was 70. Maybe it was like a knot in a tree, just like that's a not she's talking about. She was going to sue me for using the name, even though I owned the trademark. But I realized by then, because people thought I was some sort of nutrition porn star, that this was not going to be a billion dollar brand called the naughty nutritionists. It just didn't have legs. So I said, hey, you know, you have the name. You go get your, you know, keep the name, I'll go find something else. And I did become bits of health and then I became energy bits. So, so it was a pivot. That's how we got to the bits. That's okay. I thought it was the

size of, of the size. I call them bits because they're bits of food. It probably will change the name again, but I can't tell you what that is. Okay. But that was one of my pivots was changing the name. Another pivot, and again, this is important, is that I was very poor at the time when I first started for the first 10 years almost. And I could only hire interns. And so young college kids, they usually, what do they do? They run because it's a cheap sport. You just have to buy running shoes. You don't have to buy equipment. So all of my young team members were running. And this is so great for athletes. The spirulina gives you energy and focus and the Chlorella pulls out toxins so your muscles aren't sore. So they started telling their running friends

who started telling their running friends, who started telling their triathlete friends and their blogger friends. We blew up and became a sports nutrition product without even me trying or thinking about it. I was going to say, dude, of everybody that I know, like, Jesse Etzler, this is so on his, this is so up his alley. This would be so up his alley. Jesse, if you're listening, you need this stuff. It's crazy. So we, in fact, we had so many Olympic teams, not just athletes, teams. I sent two of my team over to Russia for the Olympic, the Sochi that year. And we, because I'm Canadian, we got complete invitation to the Canadian Olympic Village, the American Village. So it was pretty cool. But then I had to put.

pivot because here's why. Amazon was just blowing up at that time and sports retailers, all retailers were taking a hit. And so the sports retailers like Dix were only buying products that were high-ticket items or big branded. I did all the shows, the running shows, the hiking shows, the cycling shows, couldn't pick up a single retailer. So we had this fabulous product that the customers liked, but there was no distribution channel. So a friend of mine who was a chiropractor who also ran wellness shows, he said, you know what, why don't you come to one of my shows? I'll give you a booth for free and just see how people respond.

So I went to that show. It was love at first sight because chiropractors and wellness practitioners and functional medicine, they all knew about spirulina and chlera, but had never been able to find a clean source because I had spent years finding the best source of it. How'd you do that? Just research again, calling people, going online. Did you go to, did you go to Taiwan? I did not, but I hired somebody who was married to a Taiwan woman,

and he became a consultant to me, and he provided me with all the insights. And he goes there two or three times a year. I'm actually going next year. We're going to do lots of filming while we're there. Cool. Very cool. So I would, and we signed up like 10 accounts, like on the spot. So I pivoted into the wellness market because I couldn't get the channel,

the retail channel in the original market. to accept the product, even though the customers loved it. And I'm so, and we're going to go, we're going back into sports nutrition now, because we will never be a retail product anymore, because we don't, we don't need it. We sell through our own website. Yeah, and Amazon. No, and we sell through Amazon, but mostly through our own website. Yeah.

And we sell through doctors offices and longevity clinics and biohacking clinics. And we'll probably start, and we're, even, that continues to rise every day. The market gets bigger every day. Yeah, exactly. So I'm glad of the choice. so the universe whatever you want to call it when you got to put your ego aside because you may think well this is what i'm going this is what i'm going to do and and if it's not working there's a reason you either have the wrong channel the wrong message the wrong packaging the wrong branding something's

not right it might just be the wrong time and somebody asked me recently well what was your big break and you know what our big break was it was nothing that we did it was covid turned around was everything to us because suddenly, instead of going to Disney with your money that you saved... Everybody bought a Peloton. You know, people buying Peloton. They're caring about their health.

They're making that the priority. Well, because here's what happened. The first little bit of COVID, everybody got fatty eating frozen pizzas at their house watching Dave Portnoy review frozen pizzas. And I was like, well, I got to do something about this. And I can't go to the gym. So, yes, you're 100% right.

But I will say... That was the cycle of my... Maybe that was just my experience. I don't know, but there's an expression. I wish I could think of how I'd say it correctly, but that opportunity is preparedness meets the right, good timing or something like that. Luck is when opportunity meets preparedness. So up until then, we had spent 10 years doing the science, getting, I redesigned the packaging over and over and over and over again. I redesigned the website over and over and over and over again. I redesigned the messaging over and over and over again.

So when COVID finally hit, we were prepared for when we, people were ready to find us because if you don't have all those ducks in a row you might the opportunity might be there the timing is good but if you haven't prepared for the opportunity you might not catch the wave so that was what turned everything on we have doubled revenue every single year since then what i was going to ask what your growth was year one what did you sell oh probably 50 you maybe 10 000 dollars 10 000 i don't have the numbers in front any bit but It was, it may not even have been that. It might have been $5,000.

And then COVID, that was a hockey stick for you. Yeah. Straight up. Yeah. I mean, it was five and it was 10. And it was $100 and then $250 and then it was $200 and then $300 and $350,000, but $300. But, you know, nothing, nothing really, $350.50. You can't build a billion dollar brand with $350,000 in revenue.

So once we hit COVID, we, you know, one million, then doubled and then. it was 1.5, and then three, and then six, and then, you know, it's just, it's just, it's just. So, so you don't do traditional, but you haven't done traditional marketing strategies. So talk to me about your marketing strategies. Yeah, so because this was so special and so focused, we're in the, what you're called the early adopter stage, where people who really are lifting the hood, really looking for real stuff, not just fancy what, you know, multi-level, the real science. and because we have the science and I am the spokesperson, we wanted to find other people who

would want the science. So I started doing podcasts. When COVID hit, I started doing podcasts because you know, that's really when they really started taking off because everyone that was stuck in their house. And as long as they had a shirt from the neck waist up, they were, they could be doing a podcast, right? You could have your jammies on. I am fully clothed behind the desk just just reading at home. So since COVID, so like it's been three or four years or however many, I have probably recorded, at this point, maybe 375 podcasts. Oh, wow. Most of them are Zoom, but I do like to do, if I can, do them in person.

They're always better in person. So podcasts have been our number one way to reach the marketplace. Because when somebody's listening to a podcast, the podcaster has a committed community that's interested in that subject matter and then that particular host. And so in 45 minutes, I've been on some of their two hours. I mean, that's a lot. That's a lot. We try to get dormant.

For some reason, my desk just shut off. I don't know why, but you can't tell from the camera, so we're good. Yeah, there you go. So podcasts have been, we... Make sure we lose power or anything else. Yeah, yeah, right. We did no advertising. Zero.

I finally now have a great chief marketing officer who knows all about digital marketing and digital footprint and retargeting and, you know, we have all the fancy technologies. I mean, it's crazy because... So just to show you the power of podcasts, like, I will say the vast majority of them are small. You know, maybe 25,000 or maybe 100,000 followers. But, you know, there are a few. And like Dave Asprey, for example, he's huge. And sometimes the timing is right.

Like about two years ago, I was on Dr. Mindy Peltz's podcast. She's a big, she's really big on fasting. And she had just written a book called Fast Like a Girl. And the book went live literally about two weeks before my, she, my interview with her was done in March, but the podcast didn't go live until September, right after her book was gone and the book took off in a huge way and so did the podcast we have discount codes we have one for for your community too as long as i can remember and speaking of books remember pick up my book escaping the drift coming out november 11th available everywhere pre-order now the john gafferrottom

sorry cheap plug for myself all right yeah yeah well that podcast that one podcast generated a million dollars in revenue house um and i don't think i'm telling any stories out of whatever but Dave Aspreys. I was on his last September. And he's been doing podcasts for 10 years. For whatever reason, my particular podcast. Was the one that blew up. It is the all-time biggest downloaded on YouTube of all of his podcasts. We're at 1.3 million. Yeah, you just never know. And we generated a million in revenue from it. You know, it's so funny when you post as much content as we do. I mean, I do. You just never know what's going to work and what's not. I mean, one of my most viral ever was a guy in here talking about automated vending machines.

I'm just like, I mean, we've had some like really intricate soup like Dan Martel. I mean, really famous people. I mean, Perry Belcher, I mean, just really famous people have come through here. And this is just a random guy that I never met before that day talking about vending machines. Yeah. And it just went to the roof. And I recorded 200 teaching videos. My marketing team said, keep them short.

Like they're like a million and a half. And it was really to teach people, algae for brain health, algae for gut health, algae for longevity. And it was truly to teach people. Turns out people love those videos. Some of them had like three million views on TikTok. So one of my team was in Italy recently and they were on the beach and this person beside them pulls out one of our pouches of, you know, in Italy for God's sakes. And it's like, are you kidding me? And apparently the person was from New York and they'd seen the...

We're traveling with it. And we're traveling with it. So anyway, so podcasts were our number one for sure. What's the recapture rate on our clients that buy once? Oh, man, we're off the charts. Yeah. Because once you start taking this, you feel so good, you never want to stop. And it replaces food. It replaces vegetables. Your grocery bill goes down. You don't have to buy as many supplements. So we have like a subscription program so people get automated shipping so they don't have to keep buying it all the time. Most people buy every couple of months. Both bags, because one is they're different. The spirulina gives you nourishment is good for brain health, focus. It protects you from mitochondrial damage, so it's really good for longevity and Chlorla, which is recovery bits, pulls out toxins, builds your immune system, saves you from hangovers and all that sort of stuff. You know, it's, it's funny.

Somebody asked me the other day because I started, somebody, I started something. And I think you get to a point with this, and I think I'm at this point now. I've got to figure this out. I'm trying, like, I take so much stuff. Yeah. so much stuff. You don't know which one's working. I don't. Like, like, I started, what was the, I mean, I'm on like three different peptides. I've got all this other stuff. I take NAD plus. I mean, I take all of this stuff. People are like, you know, what's working? I'm like, honestly, I don't

know. Like, my blood keeps coming back good or I feel pretty good. And my blood that gives a little weird, then we'll adjust some off of this and someone to that to compensate. Well, I'm going to give you a challenge. I'm going to suggest you take, you get off almost everything and just take, but you'll need to take 30 spirulina and I'll send you more 30 chlorale for a month and then get your blood tested because all of those things like NAD doesn't work unless you have a precursor number one and all these things are to protect your mitochondria there is nothing in the world nothing nothing I'm going to say that again then that protects your mitochondria like an antioxidant called superoxide dismutase what your body makes for you from the moment you're born but by the time

you hit 30 it slows down by the time you hit 40 you have none and so what is superoxide Dismetase do it. It's been a minute. It's not bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it stops the free radical damage of your mitochondria. That's what all these other things are trying to do. It does it automatically.

I tell people, it's like a big golf umbrella because when you generate cellular energy, which the mitochondria is what that's what they do, a byproduct or free radicals. It's just the way it is. So when you have this stuff called superoxidimitismatase, which is also known as SOD, it's like a big golf umbrella. When you pop one of those big golf umbrellas out when you're golfing or shopping, it doesn't matter, you're saved. You don't get wet.

No. You haven't stopped the rain, but you're not getting wet. That's right. Superoxidismetase doesn't stop the free radicals, but it turns them into harmless water and oxygen so they don't damage the mitochondria. Problem solved. You don't need all that other stuff. And there's other aspects to it.

I'm sure at this point you've had people like, here's bloodbark A, here's bloodbark B. Oh, we've had people who sent us their lab test from having cancer, and they were given two weeks to live. and they started taking this stuff and they're still living and it didn't take long like within days their lab tests it's just crazy what the stuff does

and it doesn't naturally but this superoxidivitase your body just stops making it just like for it stops hormones it stops melatonin and there is no food no supplement with superoxidymotismatease in it

and there's 25,000 studies proving that superoxidimates reduces inflammation protects mitochondria prevents Alzheimer's, prevents heart disease 25,000 but nobody knows you can find it in spirulina let me ask you that but let's get on the rabbit hole a little bit we're going to put our tinfoil hats on because we talked about COVID earlier right

we talked about that and I've like I've had a handful of friends that were really healthy dudes dropped dead in the last couple years yeah you think that I mean obviously we're not going to get deep in the science of it but some of the stuff that was maybe in those vaccines is causing some weird stuff yeah and that's honestly why I've gone like crazy with all of this stuff. I'm like, whoa, like that dude was super healthy. I know he worked out every day. He was the same age. We're going to walk with his kids and dropped out on a beach. That's crazy to me. And so I'm trying to do everything. I can't avoid that. Do you, I mean, obviously, I don't know. Well, first of all, with vaccines. I don't know where I'm trying to go

with that question. Well, I will say, and this is another big push, and I have to say, I don't need people to know it's not algae that's doing all these wonderful things. It's, for you. It's the nutrients found in algae that are proven in science. So I always have to let people know I'm educating them on science that exists, and it's the nutrients. But the nutrients that are in algae aren't available anywhere else, like chlorophyll. There's virtually no chlorophyll in our food, but yet chlorophyll build your blood and is the same chemical composition virtually as your blood. So that's number one. But also in Chorella, which is the, it pulls out heavy metals. What's in vaccines? heavy metals, like aluminum.

What's the number one driver of Alzheimer's head of yours? Aluminum. All these metals. So what is it? Your body can't process that. I beg people, if they have to give vaccines to their children, and it breaks my heart, please take the chlorolla for a week before and certainly a week after, and probably somewhere between 15 and 30 a day, because it will pull out those metals. And at least we can alleviate or diminish the likelihood of autism. One and 12 children in California are getting autism.

It's crazy. It's just, and by the way, if you have autistic children, Spirillina is really terrific. Anyone on the spectrum because what it does for your brain. So on the COVID thing, I don't know enough about the science of COVID, but the two, they, let me tell you this. There was this paper that was written and released in the summer of this year, so 2025. And it was done, I believe, in Israel. I can send it to you if you want. Cool, yeah.

And it was a study done during the COVID period. And patients that were checking into hospitals. were given the standard COVID treatment, half of them. The other half were given the standard COVID treatment and spirulina. Okay. The patients that were given the standard treatment with spirulina, not a single one died, and they were all left the hospital without any illness. They were never put on ventilators, never.

And the death rate of the ones with just the standard care, no spirulina, the mortality rate was off the charts, off the charts, right? Yeah. So a couple of things that happen with the COVID is that the virus attacked your blood because people were dying because their heart was stopping because they weren't getting oxygen. And so the virus and anything that's acidic, what it does is it strips off the negative charge. I know we're getting deep here. Your hemoglobin, which are your red blood cells, okay, they have a negative charge around them.

held a magnet up, you know how it repels one another. Well, your blood's like that. It has a negative charge so they won't clump. But the COVID virus stripped off the negative charge so they clumped, which meant they couldn't carry, they were distorted so they couldn't carry the oxygen inside, which is what they do. So you were getting less oxygen than it couldn't get to where they needed to go because they were so big. That was one of the impacts of COVID. It caused the damage of oxygen to be carried, prevented oxygen to be carried to your core, your core organs and the heart was the first one usually to go. So this, an algae, is the most alkaline food in the world and it restores the negative charge to the hemoglobin. So that's one of the

reasons why I think the patients that were given the spirulina in the hospital during this test restored the negative charge so the oxygen could be delivered to the organs again and help the patient heal faster. All right. Well, let me tell you some of my ailments and you tell me which one of those tens is going to help me. Ready? All right. I'm standing by. Yeah, you got right. It's like a buzzer. It's like a buzzer. Okay. All right. One of the things I struggle with, my blood always comes back. I have high hemacrit. So always, I have very, very viscous blood. I have to get blood every two months to keep myself straight. Like a guy comes to the office and sucks it out of me. It's great. But I always have high hemigrate. Anything in there that's

gonna help me with that. Viscosity of my blood. There's a great book. I'd love you to read. It's called something about the cure. And that is often caused by too much or not enough active, is it zinc? I'll have to get you. Marley, Marley War, I'll have to get the name of it. But I don't know enough about that. About that thing to do this. Okay, that's cool. All right. insulin sensitivity which one of those is something with that spirulina up for sure absolutely 100% boom insulin sensitivity so have you seen people because like I'm not I'm not diabetic but you know I always I'm my parents both works I always am very concerned about that have you seen people that run the spectrum for diabetes and started this we even were part

of a movie called reverse they took diabetic patients diabetic to yeah to think to the middle of public and they fed them a keto diet our algae both spiraling and they made them exercise every day. Shocking. Within 30 days, every single one of them reverse their diabetes, too. This is unbelievable for diabetics, insulin insensitivity, because this balances your blood sugar. Absolutely balances your blood sugar. How many there's a day to bounce your blood sugar?

Well, for any therapeutic purposes, 30 a day would be with you. Because I'm on, I'm on, I think, I think for the insulin sensitivity, I think it's, oh, God, here, I can, but here's, I can, I can, okay, let's go, let's just go to my, Let's say if you take 30. So here's what's going to happen. We're going to go through my supplement. Listen, you tell me what you think I can get rid of. How's that?

All right. But when you take 30 from that this is what, okay, I have to, I know, I got to tell people home seven. See, if you get a podcast and then you have really smart people on, you don't have to pay for doctor visits. You just have them in here and you just like, here's what else. You may take it for instance, let's a city, but you know what's going to happen? Your hair is going to go better.

Which one's going to? Okay. So here's what I'm on. You ready? Obviously you said the multivitamin. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, D3K2.

Get rid of it because there's K2. Your daily requirement of K2 is in both of them. Is in both of those. Okay, fish oil I'm on that, obviously. Get rid of that. Cookie 10, you already mentioned. Spirulina for the fish oil. Okay, alpha la for, alpha, ala.

Yeah, spirulina for that. Okay. Cromium, pacholidate? I don't know that one. All right. Flush-free niacin. Nyacin. This got the highest niacin, spirolina.

All right, berberine? Burbene, you don't need burbine because you can spirley. I got that, and I take cortiset mushrooms. That's the AM. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. Mushrooms are great. Yeah, PM is more of that stuff, magnesium glycinate. Well, you don't need magnesium, and I would take Chlorella in the evening because this helps with your sleep.

That helps with bowel movements. NAC? You don't need either one, spirulina. All right, glycine? Glycine, I'd say spirulina. Curcumin? Well, curcumin, you know, I have to say I like curcumin. Yeah.

Okay, that was good for me. I keep that one. Resveratrol? Resveratrol? I don't need that one. No, I'd say spirulina. Yeah, yeah, it's because that's longevity. Here's the one I was thinking of.

So, bergamot extract, that's what I'm using to keep the butchings. Bergamont extract. Citrus, bergamot. I don't know about that one. What do you take that for? That's supposed to, that's supposed to help with insulin sensitivity and keep a budget. Oh, well, then if it's insensitivity, that's what this is. Yeah.

Astrogallis. Astrogallis. Is that a, is that a mushroom? I think it's a mushroom. I don't know what is. I always defer to my food friends. Yeah, no, no, yeah, this is like, I eat all this every day. It's crazy.

You don't need it. If you understand what you're taking it for, If Astrogalis, I think, is for brain health. I think so. So that would be spirulina. There's a great book by the name of Dr. Chris Palmer. He's a psychiatrist and also on the medical, is a professor at the medical school at Harvard. And his book is called Brain Energy.

And he talks about how every single brain issue, doesn't matter whether it's depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, post-pregnacy disorder. Everything comes. down to mitochondria damage. And spirulina has the nutrients that protect and restore your mitochondria because your brain has the most mitochondria in your body. There's two million per cell. So the first thing that will improve when you heal your mitochondria is your brain. Brain function. So whether it's your mood, your depression, brain fog, women suffer from brain fog more than men because... My wife battles that like a fiend. Okay, well, she needs spirulina. Here's why.

Because everybody loses that stuff called superoxidimitase when they're 40 and 50, which is causing your mitochondria to die, which means you have less energy. It's like in a building, because you're in real estate, in a building, how do you do work? Well, you need lights to do work, right? So think of your mitochondria as the lights in your building. Now, in a building, when you have a power shortage or the lights go out, you call maintenance and they restore everything. Well, superoxidimates is your maintenance.

Because in your body, when you're mitochondria, because they generate, they are the lights and the electricity. And so when they die or get damaged, you just have less lights. You just have less power. You can't do much of anything. And it just gets worse and worse and worse. And women suffer more because at the same time, their superoxidimidase is dropping, they're losing estrogen.

And nobody knows, but estrogen also is an antioxidant for your mitochondria. So women get hit twice as hard. And again, your brain has the most mitochondria. So the brain suffers more in women. That's why they have more Alzheimer's, right? Yeah. So my wife has the Apoc 4 genes. So she's got both cursures for it.

Okay. So you have to know that genes are like a blueprint, an architect's blueprint. My sister and her husband are both architects. Now, you may decide to change your plans. And instead of having a two-bedroom, maybe you're going to have a five-bedroom. So what you build may not necessarily actually look like the blueprint. Your genes are the blueprint. The thing that impacts your genes is your lifestyle.

98% of illness is because of environmental. It's called epigenetic influences. Your stress levels, your toxic load, your nutritional load, your level of exercise, and all that sort of stuff. The day she found out she had those genes. Like, no more aluminum in the deodorant, no more aluminum pans, no more anything. I mean, like, this is now 13. years ago. She just had, she wouldn't have all of her like arteries and her heart checked and all that stuff. There's no calcium built up in her area. Nice. So she's got no. K2 will get rid of

that if there was any. Yeah, which is great. So let me ask you one more question about this, which is if obviously this is doing incredibly well. You guys are built an amazing company. If you go back and do one thing different, what would it be? What would I do differently? So it's not brain yourself and not yours. Not be as stressed about the outcome. Just have more faiths that I would get there because it was very, very stressful. But even in the fear, though, isn't that? You look back in it and that was the fun part. Well, well, you know, for a year I couldn't move my neck because I was so

strained. At one point, my face was literally bleeding because of the stress, the stress, I never missed a payroll once. I didn't pay myself for 10 years. That's another sort of horror story of being an entrepreneur, but I put it all into my team and to the company. I do pay myself quite generously now. But that would just be less fear. and trusting that I was doing the right thing. I knew I was, but it was nerve-wracking. And I, you know, I didn't have a partner and I'm single. You had to do it.

So anyways, that would be it. Well, if they want to find this, where do they find it? How do they get it? EnergyBits.com, E-N-E-R-G-Y, B-4-T-4-T-S, EnergyBits.com. We do have a 20% discount code. Drift. Get you 20% off anything. We have big bags are the best value.

They have fun canisters that you can shake the tablets up. By the way, with the discount code, if you buy the large bag, it's normally 130, it comes down to 140. I just want people to know that. If you do start with 10 tablets and use that discount code, drift, 10 tablets cost you a dollar a day. That's nothing. A dollar a day, right? But 30 is your, there is, you can't, you can't get a cup of coffee. Where are you getting your coffee? It's like, you can't get a cup of coffee for $5.00. Like, right, black coffee. They poured into my hands for a dollar. That's what I get. So it's very affordable. And the outcomes are unbelievable. And you have to remember, it's food.

But, and I want people to know algae isn't new. It's just new to you. And no man's explained it to you or given you a high quality product. Well, perfect. So trust it. Catherine, thanks for coming in. It was lovely to meet you. And this is an awesome product, and I wish you nothing but the best. And if you're listening to this at home, man,

A, go check this stuff out. But B, you know, if you take nothing away from that whole story, take this away, if you really want long-term success, you've got to be willing to give up a lot in the moment and struggle and suffer and stress to get the life you want.

It's not easy, but it is worth it. We'll see you next time. what's up everybody thanks for joining us for another episode of escaping the drift hope you got a bunch out of it or at least as much as i did out of it anyway if you want to learn more about the show you can always go over to escaping the drift.com you can join our mailing list but do me a favor if you wouldn't mind throw up that five-star review give us a share do something man we're here for you hopefully you'll be here for us but anyway in the meantime we will see you at the next episode