Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - Chris Naugle: Transform Your Finances with Infinite Banking

Starting point is 00:00:00 In my hand, I'm just holding a bunch of money, right? Every one of us have been brought up to understand how money works in a general sense. We go out and we work for this. We work for money. We trade hours for the money that we make. Hours for dollars, as they call it. And then we've been taught to do what with the money when we make it? And now, Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be.

Starting point is 00:00:26 I'm John Gafford, and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the drift, and it's time to start right now. Back again, back again for another episode of Escaping the Drift, the show that gets you from where you are to where you want to be, man. And I got to tell you, this cat I got on here today, I got a lot of, let's call them, let's call them high-powered masterminds. Let's call them that, right? A lot of high-dollar folks sitting in this audience

Starting point is 00:00:59 where I go to these things. And through these masterminds, you have a couple of dudes come up or a couple of people throughout the course of the weekend and they'll speak and this is a guy that when he came up i saw him speak for the first time a couple years ago and when he came up the richest people in the room paid attention and a lot of times when people come up on stage those are the people that are checking their phones and none of these people were he had them enthralled showing them how to make money the same way that the richest families in america protect their money

Starting point is 00:01:32 he is a former pro snowboarder which to even do that would be kind of cool to achieve that level of success he is the ceo of the money club and he is a guy that is an expert at a concept called infinite banking. And we are lucky to have him on. I've been trying to get him on forever and he's here today. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program. This is Chris Noggle. Chris, how are you, buddy? Good, man. What an honor. Thanks for having me on. Best intros in the business. That's what I pride myself on. If you're listening to this for the first time, everything else from here on out is going to be downhill, but that part of it is going to be, we made sure it's just on fire. So dude, you know, there's so much to unpack with you. And again, the whole purpose of the

Starting point is 00:02:14 podcast is to get people from where they are to where they want to be. People that might be drifting along with the currents of life. We want them to escape the drift. And I think you've got a good angle when it comes to escaping money problems man i think you do when it comes to how to manage your money and work for you i would agree i mean i i had money problems and that's why i think i'm pretty darn good at helping people navigate that slippery slope i've i've spent a lot of time being broke in my life i didn't grow up with money we grew up in a lower middle classclass family like so many others. And hey, my mom always said, we're not heating the outside. And that was my upbringing. So it really didn't start to change until a lot later in my life. But I always had a very, I guess, limiting mindset

Starting point is 00:02:56 would be a word for it. Because when you grow up in that, you just grow up thinking this is just all there is. And I broke free from that when I started getting around different people and I got rid of the people I grew up with. You know, I got out of the circles I was in and I got around higher powered people. I wouldn't call them the same people I'm around today, but people doing the things that I wanted to do. And I started seeing how they did it. And it really wasn't that much different than what I was doing, maybe just changing one or two things. And, and, you know, it wasn't until one afternoon when I was out in Salt Lake city snowboarding, cause you had mentioned I was a pro snowboarder. So I spent a lot of time riding in Utah and it was one of my favorite places. I was there all the time. And

Starting point is 00:03:38 when I got heavy into real estate and this, this is during the, you know, I did a lot of things at the same time. So as we go through this, folks, I don't want you to think each one of these is a separate period of time. I was a pro snowboarder at the same time when I was running my skateboard snowboard shops. I was a pro snowboarder at the same time when I entered Wall Street for my 16 years as a financial advisor. And I was a pro snowboarder and doing some of these other things like the advisory at the same time when I was going to get our HGTV show called Risky Builders and that all launched in 18. But the pivotal moment I would say when my mindset shifted completely was that trip to Salt Lake City and snowboarding. And I

Starting point is 00:04:17 had a deal. We were flipping a lot of houses, getting ready for the TV show. And I borrowed a lot of money from private lenders. And one of the guys, his name was Mike. He lived in Salt Lake. So when I got off the hill, I called him up. I said, hey, Mike, I got a deal I want to show you. Can I email it to you? I'm in Salt Lake. Is there a chance we could meet for lunch? He said, sure. Let's meet for lunch at Cheesecake Factory tomorrow. So we did. And I remember sitting there at Cheesecake Factory with him, pitching my deal because I needed money to fund this flip. And I remember just asking him, because remember at this time I'm a financial advisor, so I thought I knew everything there was to know about money and finance and stocks and all the good stuff. And I just said to him, I said, so Mike, how do you lend all this money? And in my mind,

Starting point is 00:04:58 I'm thinking always lending from self-directed IRAs or he's lending from just his bank account, whatever. And without even hesitating, he says to me, he says, well, I lend from my private banking system. Now, as an advisor, I'd never really heard anything called private banking system. So instantly, the first thing I think is I'm like, Mike, holy crap, dude, you got a bank? why are we at Cheesecake Factory when you got a bank? Let's go to your bank. And he then tells me, Chris, I don't have a bank. I just mimic what a bank does. I literally do everything a bank does, but I changed one thing,

Starting point is 00:05:34 and that was where my money went first. And I'm thinking, okay, okay, I'm going to figure this out because Mike's a really wealthy guy, and I got to know what he's doing with money. And he starts explaining this thing and he does it. And I always tell the story because he did it in a way that was so perfect. He said, Chris, I don't put my money at banks anymore. And I'm like, okay, yeah. Cause you got your own bank. Like, how does that work? He said, I put my money in a different institution that pays me guaranteed interest. So the first thing I hear is guaranteed interest. And I'm

Starting point is 00:06:04 thinking what guarantees interest? I'm like annuities, thinking through all the things. And then he goes on and he says, and every year this institution gives me dividends. So I'm like dividends and interest guaranteed for the rest of his life. I'm like, okay, what could this be? And then he says, in the interest and dividends I earn grow tax-free. I'm like, okay, what? I'm like, that's a Roth, but he couldn't be doing it from a Roth. No, that doesn't make sense. So I'm like, keep going. And he says, it's protected against judgments and liens. I got a lot of real estate. So someone slips and falls. I can't take this money in my private banking system. And then he tells me,

Starting point is 00:06:37 should anything ever happen and I pass away, my family gets a big windfall of money tax-free. So in my mind as an advisor, I'm trying to articulate what is it he's saying? And then he throws me a left hook. And he says, and Chris, here's how it works. I take money from my private bank. I take a loan from my bank and I give that money to you. And then you pay me the interest. And he asked me, he literally asked me, he says, how much are you going to pay me on

Starting point is 00:07:01 this deal? And I said, I don't know. You always charge me 15%. He's like, exactly. You pay me 15%. But here's the thing. My money never left my account. He's like, I took it out and I gave it to you and you're paying me interest, but my money's still earning uninterrupted compounding interest in that account. At that point, my mind was like, oh, I'm like, oh my God, what is this? And remember how you said when I was speaking, you know, all the wealthy people in that room. And I know exactly what room you're talking about

Starting point is 00:07:30 started listening. It's because of this folks. We think we know what we don't know. And I was that advisor that thought I knew everything and I could not figure out what Mike had. And then I said to Mike, I said, Mike, I said, dude, what is this institution? What is this place? And he says, you know exactly what this is. You do this as an advisor. And I said, I've never heard of anything like that. And he says, yeah, you do.

Starting point is 00:07:53 It's an insurance company. And I said, an insurance company? I'm like, oh, yeah, of course. They're the largest financial institutions. And I said, but how do you put your money in an insurance company to get all those things? He said, I do it through a whole life insurance policy. He said, but it's not a normal whole life. He said, it's specially designed and engineered to do what I just told you.

Starting point is 00:08:11 And then I lend it to you and you pay me interest and I take the interest you pay me and I put it right back into the policy. And he said, and I never stop earning interest. As a matter of fact, Chris, I make money on the same dollar twice when everybody else is making money only once and i said to mike i said dude i said you have got to tell me and show me how to do this because i've never heard of this and in 14 years at that point as an advisor i'd never heard of this i knew what whole life was but i thought it was a terrible terrible place to put your money but yet he just

Starting point is 00:08:39 explained what it did not what it was and all of a sudden i had a totally different view and he said i can't you got to call this guy brent who helped helped me set it up. So what do you think I did? I called him immediately. Yeah, sure. So you're using whole life policies and it's a universal whole life policy. Is there- No, it's a straight up whole life from a mutually owned insurance company that pays dividends. But the whole life has to be there. There's only a couple of companies we can use because it's got to be able to be designed and engineered to do what I just explained, which you had mentioned earlier is known today because of a man named R Nelson Nash.

Starting point is 00:09:17 He pioneered it and deemed it called the infinite banking concept because he basically just said what these wealthy families like the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, Ray Kroc, Walt Disney, right up to the sitting president today, what they all do is they use this, but they never ever tell you what it is. Matter of fact, there was public things that went out recently showing how a lot of elected officials and politicians use their whole life policies to fund their campaigns. But anyway, getting off track, but all these wealthy families have used this and our Nelson Nash just took what they did and just put a name to it. He said, this is infinite banking. It's banking first, but it's doing banking through insurance companies, not through banks. Because if you do it through a bank, the bank's in control of your money and the bank's making the spread. If you do it through

Starting point is 00:10:02 the insurance companies, you're in control of the money and you get to make the spread so again let's let's back up and simplify this because a lot of people listen right now like okay this sounds like something i got to be rich to do like can you start this with a certain certain amount of money and then continue to add to that whole life policy yeah so the very first policy i did now this is a long time ago, but the first policy I ever did was $240 a month. Why? Because that's all I had. And over time I've gotten it up to where I'm putting a bunch in. So here's the rules of engagement. You don't have to be wealthy to do this. Now you only hear about this talked about in the wealthy circles because they're the ones that have taken the time to understand this or somebody has brought this to them.

Starting point is 00:10:44 Because one thing that everybody needs to understand is why haven't I heard about this before? I said the same thing. You haven't heard about it because in order to design and engineer a whole life, the way it needs to be designed to do this, that person designing it, the agent, the financial advisor, the broker, whatever they're called, they have to take a reduction in their commission of anywhere between 60 and 90%. So you please find me a financial advisor that would give up 90% of their commission so that you had 90% more money in your account. Good luck. They'll tell you they will, but they don't want to do that.

Starting point is 00:11:15 So that was the secret. And that's why the wealthiest families have always known about it because they've got teams of people, family offices that don't get paid commissions. They get paid retainers to do this. So that's how they've known about it. But here's the minimum. In order to do this, it's 10 times your age monthly. This is a number that we've come up with. It's not an industry standard, but it's where we found is kind of the minimum amount to make it work. So here's the simplest way. I'm 46 years old. If I had a zero after my age, 460, that's the minimum monthly. So if any of your

Starting point is 00:11:46 listeners just do that, take your age, add a zero, that's the minimum monthly. That would be 10 times your age. That isn't a lot of money. Okay. Well, let's walk through a general... Okay. So let's say I am 30 years old and I want to start this. So I got to get a policy that's $300 a month. And then... Yep. You got to design one the proper way with at's $300 a month. And then you got to design one the proper way with at least $300 a month. So walk me through that into being able to use that fund instead of just something as basic as buying a car. Like I don't want to go alone. Let's do a car. I love freaking cars. Okay. Like I'm the studio I'm in is, is an elaborate car garage. That's all basically it is. So I'm just going to

Starting point is 00:12:25 do it with some visuals, folks. So if you're listening, I'll talk through this, but any of you watching in my hand, I'm just holding a bunch of money, right? Every one of us have been brought up to understand how money works. And in a general sense, we go out and we work for this. We work for money. We trade hours for the money that we make, hours for dollars as they call it. And then we've been taught to do what with the money when we make it? We've been taught to deposit that money in a financial institution called a traditional bank. And when we put the money in a bank, what happens to that money? Does the bank take our money, carefully put it in a little black box with our name labeled on it, and then put it in the vault?

Starting point is 00:13:03 No, they want to tell the people. No, they want to tell the people. No, they want to tell the people. That's right. The bank takes your money that you literally gave up control. Read the fine print in that bank account application that you filled out. You gave up control of the money, and I'll prove it. The bank takes your money and lends it out. The bank makes your money go to work for them,

Starting point is 00:13:18 and the bank doesn't ever have to ask your permission. So if the bank takes your deposit and lends it out to somebody who's going to buy a car, it doesn't matter if that person's a good risk, a bad risk, a scumbag, the bank lends it to them and you had nothing to say about it, but it was your money that they lent. So who was in control? The bank was. And how did the bank make money? Well, let's just talk about that because when you're going to be the bank, which is exactly what I teach people, how to be their own bank through the infinite banking concepts, you must mimic a bank. You must think like a bank and act like a bank. So how does a bank make money would be the first

Starting point is 00:13:52 thing? Well, a bank pays you interest on the money that you put there, right? At least sometimes. So let's just say I deposit the money in the bank and the bank pays me 3% on my deposits. Okay, great. I'm getting 3%. I'm happy. The bank takes my money, makes it go to work for them and lends it out to somebody to buy, let's just say this Porsche right here. And they charge that person 6% interest. What did the bank make? They made a spread, right? Yeah, they made a spread. They paid you three, they charged six, they made a three point spread. And they didn't have to take a lot of risk doing that. It wasn't even their own money and the car is the collateral to the bank. So now let's talk about how you can do exactly what a bank does, but not through a bank.

Starting point is 00:14:33 Take that same money that you worked for, the money that you normally would have saved up to buy a car, not all your money. Okay. I want to be clear about that. Just the money that you normally would have saved, but you're going to change one thing. And that's where this money goes first. We're going to deposit this money in an insurance company through a specially designed and engineered whole life insurance policy. And you got to make sure that designed and engineered is the key thing. The money goes in that account. Let's just say 28 days after you make that deposit in that insurance policy, you find the car that you want to buy. And let's just assume you deposited enough money to buy the car because you had the

Starting point is 00:15:09 money in a regular bank, but you changed where that money went because you wanted a better interest rate because the insurance company pays you a much better interest rate than a bank does plus dividends and it grows tax-free. I did say that. So now you identified this car 28 days after. What we're going to do is we're going to go into the online portal for that insurance policy or call them. And we're going to say, I want to take out that money I just put in that policy. And the insurance company says, sure. They don't ask any questions. Nothing like when you walk into the bank to take a deposit or a withdrawal.

Starting point is 00:15:37 And you just click a button or two and you tell it how much you want. You want to take 20 grand out to buy the car. Great. So you take the 20 grand out, but you're not going to take it as a withdrawal. Folks, I want you to just envision right now, I want you to think of a circle. On the left side of the circle is your deposit you put into that insurance policy. In this case, let's just say you put 25 grand in because that's the money you had saved up for the car and you just found a car for 20 grand. So now we need to buy that car. You click a button online to take a loan, not a withdrawal, a loan. There's a very important

Starting point is 00:16:05 reason. The insurance company within 36 hours takes that 20 grand and deposits that in whatever bank account you want to put in. So now your bank account 36 hours later or sooner if you need it, because you can wire it, has 20 grand. You go buy the car. Okay. So think of that. That's the top part of the circle. We took money from the left side of the circle. We moved it over to the right side. And that was a loan from the insurance company. Now the insurance company did not take your 20 grand to give to you. That loan wasn't your 20 grand. Matter of fact, all 20 grand is still in your policy earning interest and dividends. And how much is the interest in dividends right now? Anywhere between five and a half and 6%. They're all a little bit different, but that's a pretty good rate by today's standards.

Starting point is 00:16:47 Okay, so let's just say it's 5.5%. Now, the loan that the insurance company gave you, where did that money come from? Well, let's go back to what a whole life policy is. And its core, it's a life insurance policy that means someday, anytime during your whole life, it will pay out a death benefit when you die. Just remember that. When you die, which we all will, a death benefit will be paid to your beneficiaries tax free. That's how life insurance works. Okay. So if you needed to take money from your insurance policy,

Starting point is 00:17:16 the cash value, what the insurance company is actually going to do is going to take 20 grand from their general account, which was earmarked to pay your death benefit. Let's call it 500 grand as your death benefit. So now they take 20 grand of the 500 that's supposed to be paid out when you die, and they lend that money to you. Meaning your 20 grand that's in your cash value didn't leave. You borrowed your death benefit and the insurance company just used your 25 grand or 20 of it anyway, as collateral for the $20,000 loan. It's brilliant. But that means now your money gets to earn uninterrupted compounding interest. Now here's the catch. The insurance company doesn't give you that loan of your death benefit for free. They charge you simple interest. And right now it's about 5%, a little under, but let's just

Starting point is 00:18:00 call it 5%, simple math. So right off the bat, let's just do some mathematics here. What is, if you're earning five and a half and you take money out at five, what did you make? Half a point. A spread, right? Half a percent spread, whatever that spread is. You made half a percent. Now you bought the car. But if you're going to be the bank and you're going to mimic what a bank does, let's not forget what a bank would require if you took a loan from the bank. They would require that you make a monthly payment for that $20,000 car you bought. So let's just call it $500 a month. You would have paid to a finance company, uh, of a traditional bank or a credit union for that car loan. If you took it from a regular bank, you would have paid that. And that would have been interest in principle. So now you're the bank.

Starting point is 00:18:42 You took 20 grand from your bank to buy the car. You just go and you just figure out what that monthly payment would be. Let's just pretend it's 500 interest in principle. And you set up a bill pay from your checking account back to your policy for $500 a month, because you would have given up $500 a month anyway. I know some of you are thinking, no, I wouldn't have. I paid cash for the car. Yeah, but then you lost the earning potential on $20,000. So you wouldn't want to do that either because that 20 grand, if you paid cash for the car, would have been gone forever, never able to work for you again. We want our money working for us 24-7. All the wealthy families want that too. So here's the catch. Most people, when they're looking at infinite banking, they're like,

Starting point is 00:19:22 oh, that's a scam. Why would I ever make a payment back to the policy? That's my money. It's because they don't understand this. The $500 every month you're going to pay back to the policy. Actually, I'm going to ask you, how much money if you made $500 payments back to your bank would you have in your bank the next day? If I made a five, so yeah, 500 bucks. 500 bucks, right? Because if you took $500 from your checking account and you put it into your policy as a loan repayment, you have $500 the next day to use. You lost no earning potential of your money and you lost no liquidity of your money because that $500 just went back in the policy.

Starting point is 00:19:59 But here's what it actually did because now we just completed the circle. We put 25 in, we took 20 out, bought the car. We took $500 a month payments. We went around the bottom part of the circle. We put it back in the policy. We completed the circle. In doing that, we made money twice on the same dollar. How? Well, we already did the math on the one. If your policy is earning five and a half and it's charging you five to use the money, that's a spread right there. But when you took the car loan out, I mean, right now, if you go to get a car loan, it's about 7% to get a car loan. So seven minus five is what? Two. It's two point spread. So you're making money twice on the same dollar, but you're not losing liquidity of any of the money and your money never stopped earning

Starting point is 00:20:40 interest. So here's the cool part. That money, that 25 grand that you put in the account the next year, it's 25 grand plus the interest and dividends that compounded, even though you got to use the money. So now what is your spread the second year, the third year, the fourth year, the fifth year? It's more every single year because your money is compounding up and your simple interest you're paying the insurance company is exactly the same. So the way you make money doing this is one is always going up and one is going down because you're making $500 payments back to your policy, which you keep the $500, but it reduces the loan to the insurance company and replenishes your death benefit. So now all of a sudden, because you're repaying the loan, the 5% the insurance company is charging you,

Starting point is 00:21:20 every month you put $500 in as a loan repayment, it reduces the loan amount. So now it's 5% on not 20 grand, but on 19,500. Then the next month it's 5% on 19 and then 18, five and 18. So if you did the math over the course of the year, it's not 5% that you're paying to the insurance company. It's probably more like four, maybe even three and a half percent because your APR is going down as you're paying the loan back, but you lost no liquidity. I keep saying that. And I'm not saying it over and over and over because I'm repeating myself. I'm trying to drive it home that you lost no liquidity of your money, but you lost no earning potential of your money.

Starting point is 00:22:02 Of how it goes. Now, question. So if you're a young person, you want to start this. Are these policies where you can buy in and then continue to add and add more money as you make more money? Do you have to get a different policy? Do they stack? How's that work? Fantastic question. And nobody ever asks this question, but it is one of the most important things. Think of a regular bank that you go to, right? Is there just one branch or is there multiple branches in your town? Multiple. Multiple. Every bank has multiple branches. Well, think of your banking system. You're

Starting point is 00:22:34 going to start your banking system wherever you can afford to save. So my first one was $240, which is very small. And I was young. I was about 23 years old, I think at the time. So when I did that, the 240, that money built up, but eventually I started making more money. And eventually I wanted to put more than $240 a month into the policy, but I couldn't. You see, we build these policies to what they call the max seven payroll. I don't want to get technical, but it's an IRS code. It's basically an IRS limit. If I build a policy to $240 a month, $240 a month is the most I can put in, but I can always put less in. I just can't go more because of that IRS rule. So if I wanted to put $500 in the next year, what I would

Starting point is 00:23:18 have to do is I'd have to go open a second branch office, a second policy to hold another $500 a month. And then every single time I want to save more, I'm going to add a branch office, a second policy to hold another $500 a month. And then every single time I want to save more, I'm going to add a branch office. So again, notice how I'm talking like a bank because you got to think as if you are a bank, you got to mimic what a bank does. And when a bank wants more money and their ability to lend to go up, they open additional branches in different parts of town to raise more money. Now, granted, yours is a private banking system, meaning it's just your money. But still, if you want to put more in, you got to open additional policies over time. I have 11 now. My daughter has one. She's four years old as of last week. And my wife has three and I have three and my mom. So that's my family

Starting point is 00:24:01 banking system. So next question, which is you said you can build them to a certain amount. You can put in less or more. So when you're building these, do you advise to build them higher than you really could? Are you stretching them bigger and then making lower payments? I don't. I don't. And I'll tell you why. A lot of people do. A lot of people will overbuild the policy because somebody will say, well, I want to start a policy at a thousand a month, but I might want to put 2000 in. So can we build it to hold 2000? And the person will build it, which, which is great. But then the person funds it at, you know, a thousand a month, not 2000. What you've just done is you've built a policy that is inefficient

Starting point is 00:24:37 because by building it for two, $2,000 a month, what that means is you had to increase the death benefit. And where's the cost in life insurance, the cost of insurance, the cost of the death benefit. So to hold $2,000 a month requires more death benefit than a thousand dollars a month. So I always tell people build the policy design to fit your savings appetite today. So if your appetite's a thousand a month, then build it for a thousand, because then it's going to be just super efficient. We can build it right to the max limits with the lowest death benefit and squeak out every ounce of gain that we can get on the policy. But if we build it to hold more, we're losing efficiency if you don't put in more. When you talk about losing efficiency, I'm guessing what you're saying is there's a cost to this every month that would go against earning power of that 5.5%

Starting point is 00:25:26 and dividends that would go against that. There's a cost to manage it. And if you overestimate the death benefit and underdo this, you would cut your earnings to a point. And now you're running. Now it's not worth doing. It's about finding that exact right level to do. And because you can always do another one, if you want to do another one, it doesn't make sense to do that. You got it. So like, think of a life insurance policy, you know, Dave Ramsey says, Oh, whole life is the most expensive life insurance you could buy. He's talking about base whole life, traditional off the shelf whole life. So when, cause I listened to all Dave's stuff and I always do rebuttal videos, but we're talking about building a policy that requires the lowest

Starting point is 00:26:05 death benefit we can put on. Remember, the death benefit is where all the costs and commissions are. The higher the death benefit, the higher the cost of insurance, the more commission that gets paid out. So our goal when we design these is to minimize the death benefit as low as we can by IRS rules, which is the MAC 7 pay. So the death benefit has to be a certain level to support an amount of deposit, the amount of money going in the policy for a period of seven years, MAC seven year or seven pay. So again, I'm getting too technical, but if I build a policy to hold a thousand dollars a month, that's the premium deposit. I'm going to build that policy with the lowest possible death benefit, or I'm going to build it with the lowest

Starting point is 00:26:45 death benefit and include term insurance riders to get the death benefit to where the IRS says, this is still life insurance. It is not deemed an investment. Because if you do, if you shove too much money in for the death benefit, the IRS doesn't look at it as life insurance anymore. They look at it as an investment vehicle and you're going to be taxed just like any other investment vehicle. That was going to be my next question, which was, so what if you have a large, can you do large single premium? Is that a- Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Remember the car example. So let's just say you wanted to buy, I don't know, let's call it a $100,000 car. And you got a hundred grand in the bank to do that, but you

Starting point is 00:27:21 don't want to lose the earning potential on that a hundred grand. So what you do is you change and you, now this is called a dump in, you take the a hundred grand that you had in the bank and you dump it into the policy. We would design and engineer that policy. And we would definitely use a term rider to do this because it reduces costs. We always want to reduce the cost. And just always remember folks, when you hear me talking about costs, if we reduce death benefit, we reduce the cost of insurance and we reduce the commission. Now, I know I'm kind of cutting my hand off because I'm the guy that does this, but that's the name of the game. Somebody's got to give so somebody else gets. You, the client, needs to get. So we dump a hundred grand in. I'm going to use term insurance riders

Starting point is 00:28:00 to support the IRS requirement. And then I can basically build that policy if I wanted to put a hundred grand in so I could buy that a hundred thousand dollar car. And then my minimum amount per year based on a hundred thousand dollar dump is about $10,000 a year. That's how much premium deposit I'd have to put in each year to make that policy remain in IRS terms and a life insurance policy. So we do that all the time. Real estate investors all the time. So we'll talk real estate for a second. So I work with a lot of big developers and these developers understand this. Most all of them do. And what they do is they've got a bunch of money sitting in banks waiting for their next project or tranched out for different stages of their

Starting point is 00:28:40 project, but the bank's not paying them hardly anything. So what we do is we work with these developers. They take that big chunk of money. They put it into the policy. Now the policy is paying them five and a half, 6%, but then they can take that money anytime they need it to fulfill their development needs when their development needs come up. So now they're earning money at a higher velocity, a higher interest rate. But the big thing that developers love is when they take the money out to fund their project, their money never left the account. It's still earning interest. So I just did one not long ago for 2.2 million. We pretty regularly do them for 500 to a million bucks of a dump in, but that doesn't mean they're going to put a million bucks in every year.

Starting point is 00:29:18 They might do a million bucks the first year because they got a project and then they funded it a hundred thousand or 120,000 every year're on out. So the most important thing when looking at this is the way we design them provides a lot of flexibility for premium deposits on the low side. You can't go higher, but you can go lower. So if somebody builds a plan to hold a hundred thousand dollars a year, that was what they wanted. The minimum amount they would have to put in, depending on our bill, there's going to be anywhere between probably 20 grand and 60 grand, but it depends on how they want it built. So most of the policies we build, and I don't want to get technical, but are usually 70% into the special rider that just goes right to the insurance company's general account. It's called paid up additions. And the

Starting point is 00:30:00 rest is going to base, which is where the commissions and everything are. So we want the minimum amount going there. It's usually, that's about 20% going to the base and about rest is going to base, which is where the commissions and everything are. So we want the minimum amount going there. Usually that's about 20% going to the base and about 80% going to the paid up additions. What that does is that reduces our commission by roughly about 80%, but it gives the client 80% more cash value immediately in the first 30 days. Let me ask you this. So you said you have guys that will come in and do this when they're doing developments. Can you enter and exit out of these policies? Or once they get into them,

Starting point is 00:30:33 are they forever? So what is it? Are they exiting them? Or once they send them up, they're just rolling the money as the projects onto the next level? They're just rolling projects. Yeah, money as project goes. Usually, these guys start multiple policies because they get into it. They see how it works, and they just keep doing additional policies. But most people that are going to start this, they're not going to ever cancel the policy. I mean, you could, you can cancel at any time. And most of the policies we design here in our company, most of them are going to become efficient. And so there's always an inefficient period, which is usually the first three years. And I'm just being honest with every one of you. I want you to understand this. So for three years, the policy will be inefficient and it's

Starting point is 00:31:02 just mathematics. It has nothing to do with what we're doing or how we design it. It's just you haven't had enough time to compound. Compounding takes time. So it takes usually three years for the compounding effect to catch up with the cost of insurance. But usually three, four, five, six years into the future. Let me phrase it a different way. Would you put money into something that you knew you were going to lose money, not a lot, but lose money, let's say 10% for three years, knowing that every year

Starting point is 00:31:32 after the third year, you would make more than what you put in. And every year for the rest of your life, that number would be more and more. In other words, if I put a dollar in in year four, I get $1.40 back. In year five, I put a dollar in, I get $1.40 back. In year five, I put a dollar in, I get $1.50 back. And every year that number just keeps going up. Folks, that is compounding interest. That's all that is. Would you give up three years?

Starting point is 00:31:57 I think any business you start, you're looking at like that. Very few businesses are in the black line. You understand that. Very few. You understand that because you're an entrepreneur and you understand how business works. But I'm being honest. There are a lot of people that just cannot get over that hump of understanding that it takes a couple of years for this thing to become efficient and they won't do it. I'll give up three years of growth.

Starting point is 00:32:17 I'm 46. Let's just say I got another 40, 30, 40 years to live on this world. That's a lot of freaking money I'm going to be making. But I had to give up three years of gains to make money for the next whatever, 40 years to live on this world, that's a lot of freaking money I'm going to be making. But I had to give up three years of gains to make money for the next, whatever, 40 years or till the day I die. And there is never, ever, ever, ever a day where you will make less the next year than you did this year. It can't happen. It's mathematics and it's guaranteed. So if you just understand math, you really start to like this thing. Well, unfortunately we live in the right now society, Chris, we live in Mr. Right. I always tell people, I'm like, if you've ever learned how the real estate

Starting point is 00:32:51 business is doing, all you have to do is tell me you ordered something from Uber Eats and my level of irritation with you for paying that stupid fee when you could have just gone and got your own food. That'll tell you exactly how the real estate business is going. I'm always irritated about it, right? I'm always right here, here pissed off but if i'd like through the roof like cranky old man mad then yeah it's been a little slow you know some of your audience is just listening but i am laughing my ass off i'm trying to contain myself because i'm just like you i do not do ubereats or doordash or any of that crap listen i make plenty make plenty of money, but I just can't waste money like that. I just don't work in that mental space. But the fact that those two companies are as successful

Starting point is 00:33:31 as they are tells you a lot about the problems in society today. And it also explains why social security statistics show that only 5% of every person in this country will ever be financially secure at the age of retirement. Only 5%, not only the 5%, only 1%, only one of them will be what we deem wealthy. That is sick in this world, in this society. It is. And one of the things, I mean, obviously this is a big savings. It's really about being able to save money. And with so many Americans not being able to put together a thousand dollars if they have a problem. I mean, I think the number I saw was like 70% couldn't put together a thousand bucks if they needed to. It's crazy. That's crazy. So some people might be listening, it's like, dude, have you fucking, we're talking

Starting point is 00:34:12 about infinite banking. Have you seen the price of bread lately? Have you seen the price of like everything lately? Like they might think this is nuts. So my question is this, because I thought of this this morning when I was thinking about the questions I was going to ask you, and I was like, with so many Americans, the only wealth that they have is the equity that they have in their home. So my question is, this is kind of a weird question, and it may be completely terrible, but is there a way to tap that home equity through a HELOC that somehow, and then take it and put it in one of these, where somehow there's an arbitrage play that makes sense? 100%. We teach that all the time, but I'm going to tell you, and I'm going to be very kind of stern about this, is I don't recommend people take money from

Starting point is 00:34:57 their home equity line of credit and go directly into the policy. I can show you the mathematics. The one thing I can show everybody is the mathematics behind everything I'm talking about. And I can show you why mathematically it always makes sense. It would make sense if you did that, but here's what I would do. And I'm just speaking, you know, as somebody that's been around this for a while, I would take the money from the home equity line and I would go out there and I would be the bank and I would lend that money on a really secured real estate deal. Like in somebody's buying a duplex and it's, you know, youplex and you're lending 60 cents on the dollar

Starting point is 00:35:26 for the valuation of it and you lend it at 12%. I would take the 12% from that loan, which was money that was sitting lazy in my house in the first place, never would have been tapped into until you got that home equity. And I lent it out at 12%. I would take the 12% and then I would roll that interest into the policy. And I would continue to keep doing that. That's how I would do it. But I have a ton of people that take their money from the home equity, dump it into the policy because they then are going to buy a big ticket item like a car or maybe another investment property. It will work 100%. But you must, you just, as the book Becoming Your Own Banker by Aron Nelson Nash says, don't ever steal the peas.

Starting point is 00:36:06 So if you did take money from your home equity, put it into the policy, took a loan from your policy immediately in the first 30 days and bought a car, too many people, and this is why I tell people not to do this, too many people don't then complete the bottom part of the circle and make the payment back to the policy. But the problem with the home equity line is remember, if you take the loan from the policy, you got interest being charged on that money at a rate of roughly 5% today, plus you got interest being charged on the home equity line. So if the home equity is seven, plus you got five, you just made a big number that you got to overcome. So now you got to make a spread. So you got to lend that money out at a higher velocity than what it's costing you to use that money. That's why I don't do it that way. Yeah. I just, I'm trying to think of, it's a great question. Yeah. But just like, how can more people do this with, you know, in some cases, some of the limited resources people are dealing with on a day-to-day basis right now? Sure. Can I, can I take a stab at that? That's what we're here, man. So listen, I do this for thousands and thousands of people. I mean, we're the number one

Starting point is 00:37:06 in the country for what we do. So we help tens of thousands of people. So I've seen all walks of life. I've seen the wealthiest of the wealthy, and I've seen people that are barely getting by use this to get themselves to the place they want to be. So before I get into this, I want to preface, I can't help everybody. And that's a hard place for me to sit here knowing this can change people's lives, but I can't help everybody because I can't help people that are living paycheck to paycheck that aren't saving anything. My help to them would be say, get a second job, go work extra hours, find a little hobby, go drive Uber, find some way to get over that paycheck to paycheck. But too many people, when they make more money, they spend money. Once a luxury, now a necessity is a real thing in today's society. So I just want to preface, this isn't for everybody. You have to save money in order for this to work. But now let's just talk about an average person in this country that is able to save a little

Starting point is 00:38:01 bit of money. Not a lot, but a little bit of money. Where do most people save money in this country? I'll give you the answer. 401ks. Here's what I tell people to do. And most financial advisors would say, I'm crazy for telling you to do this, but I'm right. They're wrong mathematically. Stop putting money in that 401k because that's for someday in the future. If you're struggling today, why are you saving money in something you can't use till 59 and a half? So pause the 401k, take the money you were putting in the 401k, put it over here into the policy. But what are you going to do with the policies? You see, if you're just getting by, my guess is you're just getting by because you got one too many debts, mostly credit card debt.

Starting point is 00:38:40 I looked at the numbers. I do YouTube videos all day long about debts in this country. It's the highest it's ever been. And it's like a straight line up with credit card debt. So think about a credit card. How much does the average American pay in interest per year on a credit card? I'll give you the answer. It's over 20%. It's over 20% right now because we're in a high interest rate. So let's just call it 20% for simple math. What would people do to make 20% in a 401k on their investments? They would take a lot of risk and a lot of times lose. But if you're giving away 20% every single year to a credit card and you're making minimum payments, which means you're never going to pay it off, the credit card company is literally making 20%. So the fastest way for everyone to build wealth

Starting point is 00:39:26 is through their own debts and expenses. So now that you understand that most of people's wealth is being given away to their debts. So here's what you did. You stopped putting money in the 401k. You redirected that money into this policy. Go back to the circle. We take the money from the policy, whatever we put in there, we save it up a little bit. Let's just say we set it up quarterly. Every quarter we take a loan. Let's say it's a very small amount. We only got, I don't know, let's say a thousand bucks after the first quarter. We take a loan for a thousand dollars. We find our lowest balance, not lowest interest rate, lowest balanced credit card. Let's just say just for the simple fact of this example, it's a thousand dollars. We take1,000 loan that we took from

Starting point is 00:40:05 the policy, we pay off that credit card. So the credit card is gone. We no longer owe them any money and we don't also owe them that $50 payment we used to make them. Well, hang on a second. Why would you not attack the highest interest credit card first? Because it's not about the interest rate, it's about the velocity of money that matters for what I'm teaching here. So if we were to pay off the highest interest rate, that interest rate might be attached to a higher balance. So if we took that same thousand and we paid off the highest interest rate, we still have a monthly payment we have to make to that credit card. Although it might be a little less, we still have to pay that. So we haven't changed the velocity or we haven't

Starting point is 00:40:41 changed our lifestyle. If we pay off that $1,000 credit card and we no longer have that $50 payment, which was 20%, but we still make that $50 payment. We treat it just like I told you with the car. The $50 we used to give the visa, that card we just paid off, we pay that $50 back to our policy. Now I've got an extra $50 every month of money that's in my savings earning interest that I didn't have before. So now another quarter goes by. I've saved up another $1,000, but now I've also saved up $150, which was the money I was giving the credit card. So now I have $1,150. I take that $1,150.

Starting point is 00:41:21 I attack the next credit card. And then I just keep doing that same cycle. You see, it's not, again, about interest rates. It's about the velocity of interest. And let me prove it. You know this very well in what you do. When people buy a house, let's just say it's their primary house, and they get a 30-year mortgage. And let's just say they found a bank right now that gives them a 30-year mortgage at 2.5%. You think they're excited right now? Yeah. Yeah. You're laughing. They're out of their mind. Crazy.

Starting point is 00:41:53 Like, oh my God, I found the best bank. It's two and a half percent. But they fail to look at their mortgage document from the bank to tell them how much interest they're actually paying because the banks are wicked smart and the banks have figured out it's not about the interest rate. It's about the velocity of interest charged. Seven years is the magic number. If any of you look at your mortgage amortization schedule in the first seven years, I guarantee you, you are paying at least 75% of every monthly payment to interest. And then the remaining amount, it might even be higher, the remaining amount to principal, which is why your balance of your mortgage doesn't seem to go down at all in the first seven years. And why seven years? That's the average people own a house, Chris.

Starting point is 00:42:32 Bingo. The banks have figured out that most Americans move or refinance every seven years, which just so happens to be tied into the cyclical cycles of the short term debt cycle and the long term debt cycle because the short term debt cycles every five to seven years, interest rates either won't go to the boom or bust cycle. And that's it. So the banks know this. So the banks want to get paid all their money up front. So they front load those amortization schedules. So the majority of

Starting point is 00:42:59 your payment doesn't matter, it's two and a half percent, the majority of your payment is going to interest. So if you did the math, and I just did this on my mortgage, in the first 10 years, how much was my interest rate? How much do you think my interest rate was if I paid for 10 years, my mortgage is at 3.5%. What do you think I actually paid the bank? I'm going to guess 8.5%. No, 48.6% interest by the math, because the velocity of interest, I calculated how much interest I paid to the bank versus how much

Starting point is 00:43:29 principal I paid. It was for almost 48%. I think it was it might even been higher. I got the notes over there. I did a YouTube video on this, folks. It was it was. So did I really have a three and a half percent mortgage? Yeah, I did. But the way that they vote that they use the velocity of interest is what matters. Now, unless you pay it off for the full 30 years. Hang on. That brings me to another point, which is the banks are probably shitting their pants right now because I can tell you, people that locked up these sub-three rates included in 2021,

Starting point is 00:44:04 they ain't moving in six. They're never given those rates up. I mean, that's why guys like Pace and Mulvey own 2000 doors. Cause I mean, they're going sub two. I mean, they're not giving these rates up. Nobody's going to, I'm so glad you brought that up. Banks and folks, you don't have to be living under a rock to understand this. Banks are in trouble right now in mostly regionals and community banks. And that's just because they're smaller. So, you know, banks basically when, when you make a deposit, the bank has to keep 10% of your money in tier one account, which is a guaranteed account. They have really two options of where to keep that money. Number one, US treasury bonds, because they're guaranteed by the full

Starting point is 00:44:38 faith and credit of the United States government. But the second place they're allowed to put money is into a thing called BOLI, bank owned life insurance. Look it up, FDIC.gov and just type BOLI in. You'll see that the top five banks in this country have over $80 billion in life insurance, whole life specifically, but it's called BOLI. Okay. So that's where the money is. So now when you saw Signature, Silicon Valley, all those banks, Republic go defunct, there's just a year ago, folks, you might've forgot about it. What happened? There was a run on the bank. People wanted their money. The bank didn't have reserves above and beyond the 10%. So what they had to do is sell off their tier one assets, but they sold off their

Starting point is 00:45:18 treasury bonds at one of the worst times because the Fed raised rates so fast, it brought the price of their bonds down to one of the lowest points we've been at in the last 40 years and the bank had to liquidate their bonds at a massive loss game over until the fed stepped in you would have seen you would have seen carnage in the banking industry and what you just mentioned is a huge thing right now you're seeing in the commercial world but it's also going to hit the residential. No one's going to refinance their mortgages because everybody is literally sitting on these low interest rates and they're going to ride those low interest rates out and they're not going to move. Hence why we have a shortage right now of real estate and housing because nobody wants to move. Yes, it's a massive problem for banks because they can't get that velocity of

Starting point is 00:46:03 interest. Plus all those damn closing costs they hit you with every time you refinance, they're not getting those either. It's going to be carnage for banks the next downturn, which will be probably in 2025, if you had to ask me. Well, let me ask you this, because this is my next question. Because everybody, you always want to know the safety of these things. And you were just talking about banks going under, banks failing. One of the things that people don't talk about is during the banking crisis we had

Starting point is 00:46:27 when Lehman Brothers went down, was people were worried that AIG was going to sink. The insurance companies that were behind them holding these policies, people were really worried about that. So is there a fear at some point that a major glitch in the banking system, as we're probably going to see right now, you just mentioned, is there fear that that could carry over into the insurance industry and affect some of these policies? Well, so let me preface AIG because this already happened. So we actually have a case study on this. AIG did fail in 2008. But what was the difference between the insurance companies we use and AIG? AIG was a publicly traded insurance company, meaning who they benefit is the stockholders. When the stock market went

Starting point is 00:47:12 down, all boats go out with the tide. So AIG stock went down with it. But AIG also made false promises of like they were insuring things to 100, 120, 150%. You can't do that. So they literally went defunct. The backstop and all insurance companies have two backstops. Number one, state, kind of like a bank, there's state insurance policy essentially that backs banks and also insurance companies, but there's also fed insurance.

Starting point is 00:47:40 We know it as FDIC, but in the insurance world, it's something different. So insurance companies have two backstops. AIG had to get bailed out, literally. They're still around today, but they're a risky driver. So the difference between AIG and every insurance company we use to build these policies for the infinite banking concept is the insurance companies we use are mutually owned, which means the person who benefits is the policy owners because they're technically the owners of the insurance company in a roundabout way, hence why they pay dividends. So go back in history and anyone that's listening to this, look it up. How many mutually owned life insurance companies have

Starting point is 00:48:15 went bankrupt in the last 200 years? I bet you you can count them on one hand and I bet you the ones that did, you've never heard of anyway because they were so small. But when they went bankrupt or defunct or insolvent, they were just gobbled up by one of the other big mutuals for the market share. You see, that's what happens. So we'll, and here I'll tell you exactly what will happen when the markets crash and the recession sets in probably mid to late 2025, depending on what happens in the election, insurance companies will get stronger because insurance companies, unlike banks and other financial institutions, invest for the long haul. They gobble up treasury bonds. They are having a field day right now buying treasury bonds at some

Starting point is 00:48:55 of the lowest prices they've been able to buy them at in 30 years and being paid crazy amounts of interest because the yield on treasury bonds are really good. Even T-bills. Insurance companies, and I know the presidents and the CEOs of the ones we work with, and I know this to be fact, they're having a field day. They're creating a tailwind of money for, in some cases, 30 years by buying bonds today. So for 30 years, those bonds will pay them that interest that they get locked in at today. Let's call it 5% because some of these bonds are paying good interest today. They'll get that for the next 30 years. But you see, insurance companies know what I know and what I teach in a lot of my videos is how bonds work. When interest rates go up, the price of bonds goes down, creating an awesome

Starting point is 00:49:33 opportunity to buy low. But then when interest rates go down, which was exactly what the Fed will do when we enter a recession or a slowdown, they'll drop interest rates, hence why they're probably holding rates. They call it inflation. That's part of the story, but part of it is there's not a recession yet. There's not a weakness in the economy yet. Everybody's still employed, so why drop rates? But when there's a recession, they will.

Starting point is 00:49:54 And when rates go down, guess what happens to the price of bonds? They go up. So insurance companies will liquidate some of their bonds that they bought at rock bottom price. They'll liquidate some when they go high. Insurance companies, mutually owned insurance companies, will make more money in a recessionary period than they do in the last 10 years when we're in these ultra low interest rate cycles. That was really hard for the insurance companies we work with. But this environment we're going into and that we're in now is one of the most profitable for the insurance companies. And I can prove that. Just look up any of the insurance companies that we deal with.

Starting point is 00:50:29 They have raised dividends now for the last two years. Why? Well, dividends are a reflection of return of unused premiums, but really profits. So hence, you can see what's happening and that will continue to happen into this next cycle. That's a great question, man. Thanks for bringing it up. Yeah. No, no, no. So let me ask you this because, and let's get off of this. Like if you've heard this by now, if you've listened to this to this point, they should be interested enough to want to follow up with you at some point. But I want to talk about something a little more personal now because obviously escaping the drift is good along. One of my biggest fears, you're a guy that's uber successful and obviously that's why we have you on the show. But you know, as somebody that's also successful, one of my biggest fears in life is raising

Starting point is 00:51:09 worthless kids because easy times make, make terrible, terrible adults. So my question is, as the father of a four-year-old daughter, what's your plan for making sure that she is not entitled? She is not, uh, she, she's not an Uber eater. She's not an Uber Eater. Yeah, not an Uber Eater. I like that. Well, I can't guarantee what the future is going to be for my daughter, Vivi, but I can tell you this, nothing is going to be easy for her. When she wants to buy something, she'll have the money to buy it because I set up policies for her and I'll continue to do that through her younger years. And those policies will have significant amounts of cash value that she can use. So let's just say Vivi gets to 16 years old.

Starting point is 00:51:49 And at 16, I mean, most teenagers want to get a car because now they got their driver's license. Vivi can go buy any car she wants. She'll have plenty of money to buy it. So let's just say she wants to buy this car that I'm staring at right here. It's called 90,000 bucks. She could buy that $90,000 car if, and only if she has the means to make the monthly payments back to her banking system to repay that loan. So if she can't afford the monthly payment on a $90,000 car over a five-year term, just like the bank would do. And at the same rate, the bank would charge her. She can't buy a $90,000 car. So how I plan to teach my daughter is I plan to teach her the value of money, how it't buy a $90,000 car. So how I plan to teach my daughter is I plan to teach her the value of money, how it's just a means of exchange. I plan to teach her that

Starting point is 00:52:30 delayed gratification is one of the most amazing things you can learn and things that you want today maybe aren't things that you need today. So she's going to learn that because that's how I grew up. But she's also going to learn that her bank, her policies, her banking system, she has that, and that money can fund anything she wants, but she's always got to be the bank. She can never steal the piece. If she takes money from her bank, she has to pay her bank back every single month, just like she'd make payments back to a bank. And as she learns this, she will start to understand that she doesn't matter what she buys, what she spends, as long as she's making the money go back into her policy, she can never get, she'll continuously just keep getting wealthier. She can never go the opposite way. But you know, I started late in life and this is a

Starting point is 00:53:15 fact of, of this is just reality. When you, when you, when the, when the, when the switch flipped, cause for me it was like 32. I was not, I had a lot of cool jobs and I did a lot of cool stuff, but I didn't make any real money until I was in my early 30s, call it. So I started in Wall Street at 23. My first year, I made 70. Next year, I made over 100. So back then in the early 2000s for that, I was making good money, but I was stupid with my money. I was always keeping up with the Joneses, all the other guys in the office. One guy would buy a new Mercedes. I went out and bought a new BMW. I was so stupid with money and I didn't understand how money worked. I just made money and spent money. And that's what I'm going to teach my daughter too, is how not to do what I did during that phase of my life. So I started making real, but you see also in 2008, I almost went bankrupt. I almost

Starting point is 00:54:06 went bankrupt again in 2014. And that's just the universe. You know, sometimes you just have to understand that everything that happens to you is so you learn a lesson. I just was a hard learner. So it's just, I'd make money and I'd have to give it all back. Then I'd make it again and I'd have to give it all back. It wasn't until I understood what being wealthy really was. And that was wealthy people understand how not to give the money back. And that's when I really started gaining what I would call true wealth. And that wouldn't have been probably until my late 30s that I really started accumulating what I would call wealth. Dude, that's such a good point. Because I think a lot of people in the entrepreneur world would hear the first part of that story and say, well, that's the game. I mean, you make it, you lose it. You make it,

Starting point is 00:54:49 you lose it. That's how we do it. I mean, that's kind of the edge that a lot of people run on, I think. So that's almost like the next level of the game is understanding like, hey, at some point, maybe I can't risk all my chips on this new venture that I believe completely in, and I might need to figure out a better way to have a safety net here and not burn the boats. See, it's not until you actually lose it all and feel that feeling when you're at the bottom that you really understand. I think a lot of these people playing that game haven't really lost it yet. They think maybe they've lost a little, they've had a couple of bad deals, but they haven't really hit the bottom. And I don't think you'll ever really truly hit the

Starting point is 00:55:27 rock bottom, but when you hit that point, you'll know it. And then you won't ever want to go back there ever again. And you will learn the lessons, the principles throughout your life to never, ever go back there again. But it's hard to understand that by reading a book and, you know, you're right. Everybody's riding that edge, but you got to remember, we have, we've been going the longest period of time now. This is the longest bull run we've ever been in. It's artificially manipulated and it's going to crash hard. And when it does, that all those people that saying, oh, you got to lose it to me. You got to lose money to make money. Granted, yes, you do. But once you lose it, please learn how not to give it back again. What people don't know about me is I am so unbelievably conservative with what I do with

Starting point is 00:56:12 money. People would call me stupid. People are like, oh my God, you could make so much more money. Right. But I would run the risk of having to give some of it back. You see, I do the most boring things with my money. I buy lots of treasury bonds. Why? Because the insurance companies buy treasury bonds and I just follow the big money. Warren Buffett recently just sold a bunch of his Apple and most people would have said, oh my God, why is he selling Apple? It's such a good company. You think he knows something that you don't know? Follow him. I own zero stocks. A lot of my wealth is lent out to private lending deals. And I lended about my max is 70%. Okay, loan to value. And I lended a rate of between 12 and 15%. So I know historically, if I go all the way back to the Great Depression, real estate

Starting point is 00:56:53 has never fallen. Well, during 2008, maybe a little bit as close fallen more than 30%. So I'm protected on the downside. I'm getting paid for the you know, for the risk that I'm taking at a rate of 12 to 15%. I'm doing short-term loans, no long plays, and I'm doing small projects. That's my appetite for lending. But a lot of my other money, I like cars. Listen, I grew up with a Porsche on my wall. This car I'm staring at right here, which you guys can't see, but that's the car that was on my wall as a child. That car is bought and paid for, but I make payments every single month on that car.

Starting point is 00:57:25 I make payments every single month on the other Porsche up front that I drove to work. I make payments every single month on the G-Wagon that's at the shop because it's always at the shop. I don't know why those things are always broken, but my car payments every month are probably $4,000, $5,000 a month. People would say that's stupid, but who do I make the car payments to should be the question you're asking. I make them back to my bank. So that's $5,000 a month going back into my banking system. Every bit of that 5,000 includes a minimum interest rate of at least six. The one Porsche is at eight because that's what the bank would have charged me.

Starting point is 00:57:57 And people would say that's a stupid way to invest money. And it is. But I like cars. I want to drive the cars. And I'm okay making the payments back to my bank. But I'm getting wealthier every month for I like cars. I want to drive the cars and I'm okay making the payments back to my bank, but I'm getting wealthier every month for driving these cars. Matter of fact, I get all the money back for every car I ever buy, drive and own because I'm the bank. And it is boring to some, but to me, it's just my place of comfort. Everybody's going to have their own appetite

Starting point is 00:58:20 for risk. Mine, because I come from Wall Street. I spent 16 or 16 years in that hellhole. I understand risk at a level that most don't. And I understand what's coming and I want nothing to do with it. So when everything crashes and burns, all I want to do is be completely liquid to go in there and just say, Ooh, piece of candy, Ooh, piece of candy. That's how you make money. And that's how Warren Buffett does it too. Cause he's sitting on 200 billion in cash in Berkshire Hathaway. And it ain't because he wants to sit on cash. He hates cash. It's because he knows the feeding time is coming soon. And this might be his last feast of his life. Sometimes the signs are right in front of us, but we just don't pay attention. Yeah. Keep your powder dry. They say, man, wait, wait for you can wait to use it. So, uh, yeah, there's a lot of dry powder out

Starting point is 00:59:04 there. I think right now for, especially in the high end, but fortunes are definitely made during They say, man, wait for you can wait to use it. So, yeah, there's a lot of dry powder out there, I think right now for especially the high end, but fortunes are definitely made during downturns. Nobody gets rich when everything's, I mean, people have done well over the last several years. I know in real estate, anybody that's an agent has done well, but I love the, you know, it's funny to people like, oh man, I'm a realtor. I do so well. It's like, yeah, let's see how you're doing now. You know, And, uh, what do they say? You never know who's skinny dip until the tide goes out. Tide's out. So yeah, so there it is. Tide is out now. So Chris made up. They want to learn more about you, get in touch with you to set this up. How do they find you, dude? I'm not hard to find. You can go to chrisnoggle.com and you just watch the 90 minute video on there to learn everything I just talked. But I'm also, I got well over a thousand videos on YouTube at the Chris Noggle and I'm on every single social platform there is out there with lots of followers.

Starting point is 00:59:56 A thousand videos on YouTube. Actually, as of today, 1,275. I'm an animal, man. I film. That's my job, man. My full-time job is I've got a, this is a full production studio. You can only see one of the studios, but all I do is make content, teach people the truth about money, show them how to take back control of their money. And I give it all away for free because I've learned up to this point in my life that the best way to get ahead is to give more and more and more. And I give my best stuff away for free every single day. And because of that, I just keep getting more and more. If you

Starting point is 01:00:30 give, you get. And that's my prescription, man. Well, I cannot think of a better note to end the show on than that, my brother. I appreciate you being in. Hopefully, I'll see you soon. And man, if you've been listening to this today, dude, just remember, quick drifting along with the currents of life. You got to start swimming against the current, man. Nobody's coming to save you. You don't have to do this, but you got to do something. See you next time.

Starting point is 01:00:57 What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escapingthedrift.com. You can join our mailing list.

Starting point is 01:01:10 But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, throw up that five-star review, give us a share, do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.

Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - Chris Naugle: Transform Your Finances with Infinite Banking

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