Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - Don't Be A Victim: How To Spot Scams Before They Happen Ep 74

Episode Date: January 26, 2023

Don't Be A Victim: How To Spot Scams Before They Happen Ep 74Have you or someone you know been scammed or almost been scammed? Probably.There are all sorts of scams happening these days, and it can be tough to figure out what's real and what's not. In this podcast, I share some of the most common scams and tips for avoiding them!💬 Did you enjoy this podcast episode? Tell us all about it in the comment section below!On his podcast, he discusses all sorts of topics, including what made him successful and some of his core tenants for living life and managing successful businesses.➡️ He is often joined by Chris Connel and Colt Amidan who are dear friends and successful business people in their own right.The Power Move podcast stands to be one of the top sources of knowledge and insights, specifically into real estate and entrepreneurship out there! Not to mention tons of coverage of topical events and insights into our non-commercial lives as well…➡️ Learn and burn Entrepreneurship from serial entrepreneur John Gafford and his band of mayhem makers. From stripper poles to the oval office, business lessons are everywhere. If that sounds interesting to you, make sure to subscribe to my channel and don't forget to hit the bell icon to never miss a Podcast! 🔔💯 About John Gafford:After appearing on NBC's "The Apprentice", John relocated to the Las Vegas Valley and founded several successful companies in the real estate space. ➡️ The Gafford Group at Simply Vegas, top 1% of all REALTORS nationwide in terms of production.Simply Vegas, a 500 agent brokerage with billions in annual salesClear Title, a 7 figure full service title and escrow company.➡️ Streamline Home Loans - An independent mortgage bank with more than 100 loan officers.The Simply Group, A national expansion vehicle partnering with large brokers across the country to vertically integrate their real estate brokerages.✅ Follow The Power Move with John Gafford on social media:Instagram ▶️ https://www.instagram.com/thejohnmgaffordFacebook ▶️ https://www.facebook.com/gafford2/🎧 Stream The Power Move Podcast with John Gafford Episode here:Listen On Spotify : https://open.spotify.com/show/7cWN80gtZ4m4wl3DqQoJmK?si=70ad5ca4f51e4acc Listen On Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-power-move-with-john-gafford/id1582927283☑️ Featuring:Chris Connel - Esquire - https://www.connelllaw.com Colt Amidan - Director of Commercial Real Estate at Simply Vegas - https://www.amidangroup.com#ThePowerMoveWithJohnGafford

from the art of the deal to keeping it real live from the simply vegas studios it's the power move with john gafford back again back again back back again in 2023 boys happy new year first show of the new year after uh long hiatus if you will i mean you know long couple weeks whatever it was the holidays kids you know yeah you get kids you got stuff to do welcome to the power move my name is john gafford i am your host this is the show where we talk about things that make you better ways to hopefully help you improve to my left as always we've got the bulgarian mongoose polo assassin what's up everybody how are you hopefully the new coach for the raiders the new yeah i couldn't do worse you know what i was in

utah some guy came up to ask me for my autograph i'm like huh he thought i was a miami dolphin coach like yeah i'd be in utah during mike mcdaniel during uh nfl season yeah week before the major uh just kicking it in utah to hang out and across from us always is the counselor chris connell how are you sir living the dream gentlemen living the dream indeed living the dream you know man lots lots to unpack lots of stuff going on lots going on you know i gotta tell you what today what we're gonna talk about i've decided we're talking about because as i work out as i as I'm in my gym at my house, I normally tend to try to binge things that I start watching only when I'm in the gym.

So it forces me to want to go back in the gym again to watch them again when I'm doing that. Schitt's Creek. And right now, I'm watching the Bernie Madoff story. I was going to say that. Madoff. Have you seen it? Madoff, the monster of uh of uh wall street and dude

holy smokes if he's not smart he was not smart from the beginning no i thought he was an intelligent guy like that just got greedy no he was not smart it just it just he just started it before he was it was one of those things where he started when he wasn't uber successful and it just kept going but but what i want to talk about today is the mother is among other things how to hopefully detect when you're getting scammed i mean you know there's there's so much of it out there right now and so many things and i just i think about this and like my mom calls me that i don't know if i told you guys about this did i tell you about this yeah when my mom calls me she did yeah she calls me. Did I talk about it on the podcast?

Not on the podcast. All right, all right, all right. My mother calls me up, and she says, I'm at the bank, and I felt the need to call to you. And I said, okay, tell me what's going on. And she goes, well, I was on my computer, and I was on the computer doing computer things, and all of a sudden this notification,

I'm going to go in my mom's voice now, this notification from Microsoft popped up, and my computer had a virus, and it told me to call this number. And I'm so glad I did, because when I called them, they told me that not only did I have a virus, but someone had stolen my identity.

And they were the IRS at the same time? Yeah, they verified it. So they told me I had to come to the bank, and I verified it. So they told me I had to come to the bank, and I was going over through everything, and I had to come to the bank, and I had to go to the ATM and deposit this money in a certain way. And I just, before I do, I'm like,

as soon as she opened her mouth and said, like, you had me at pop-up screen. You had me at pop-up. You had me at pop-up screen. And she's like, well, it said Microsoft. And I'm like, because if it said Nigerian scamster, you probably would have tipped you off there as to what was going off. And, dude, it seems like it's everywhere.

And when you look at – In business, like we laugh about stuff like that, like, oh, it's so, you know, out there, who would fall for that? But business, I get once a week talking to someone. I mean, you just made a story this morning. It's like, wow, scammers out there everywhere. Well, like you said, I constantly get emails from people saying, hey, will you do a purchase agreement for heavy equipment in your jurisdiction?

Now, the minute it says your jurisdiction, I go, mm-hmm. But anyway, there's a scam, and what happens is this. Lawyers have done this, and they've been burned out. Lawyers, law firms have been burnt on this scam yeah smart people where you get a check from a client as a retainer they pay you a retainer by the time it doesn't clear with your bank you've wired it back you've wired it back oh this is done qr back okay yeah sure it was here it looks like it cleared wire back money's gone it was never real yep that happened that happens a lot with with real estate because it's the same thing where they're like people like i don't understand the scam these people that email you like i love it when it's the i'm interested in purchasing a

home in your area are you still in the business of selling them okay dude yeah like i know immediately kind of something i do that's your general area not specific just what it is and but when you watch the made-off thing man if you haven't seen it yet, what was so amazing about it was He did such a good job of becoming Insulated from the SEC like to the point when they would come in and investigate him, right? He would ber break the agents. Be like,

I already talked to your boss about this. Like, do you know I'm on the short list to be your boss? Do you, you understand that? And they would like call their boss and be like, Oh, maybe you can be his aid,

but he takes over. And they would just kept closing the investigations over and over and over. They just kept closing it because he made himself so singular insulated. But it's amazing to me. Here's the amazing thing. SPF did that at FTX. Exactly. It is.

But it amazes me that all of these people that have all the money in the world, and you're talking about every royal family basically across Europe. You're talking about every major money manager across Europe and the United States. They all not just had their clients' money with this cat. They had their own money.

And like, this is the business you're in and you can't tell that you're looking at a chart that is up and to the right at 45 degrees over 12 years and something's wrong? Yeah, you didn't notice that no one else is doing this? Yeah, that nobody else can do it, and it was crazy to me. There's this guy over, his name is bill miller of leg mason he's a legend in the mutual fund space legend for 20 years he beat the s p 20 years and that's one guy

and i know his name and he's just a mutual fund manager lives in boston at a company called leg mason that guy just slightly beat the s p by like a a percent or two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's the Mike Tomlin of mutual fund investors. He's just enough to keep the job. Just enough to earn your MERs, your management expense ratio and fees. So when I see these guys that go, oh, I'm a hedge fund manager, oh, yeah, we're making 45% a year, I immediately go, you don't know what you're

talking about now there's a year where a hedge fund manager will make a 45 right yeah but if you tell me you've done this for five years single year for 12 15 years you are a liar you are a scam artist there's no 100 of the time that's true yeah well that's what one of their biggest competitors he goes recreate what he's doing it's not possible like like they wouldn't have done it possible they have mit phd physicists running every single possible permutation probably now john's favorite thing on earth ai yeah running the quants running it buddy quants running it ai running it these people down to a fraction of you know the arbitrages come in you know microseconds now where they're taking

fractions of a penny just multiple times these people have this down to a degree where it's no longer art that part of its science well let's you know what speaking of ai let's talk about that for a minute because i think that is going to 76 was best point guard ever i agree i agree oh no no we're not a sports again we're not a sports show not a sports show no the greatest thing in the history is is now ai well until it you know turns on us and then we're you know we go full skynet and then we do that but you know the chatbot ai if you haven't got on it yet i am i'm just addicted to everything ai I'm using it every day in my business. I use it every day for things, and everybody I show it to is just mind-blown within our world.

And if you haven't seen it yet, it's the Chat GMT. It just got a $27 or $29 billion valuation on investment is what this thing is worth. And essentially, if you don't understand what AI is or you don't understand what it does, imagine having the entire wealth of human knowledge, which is the entire internet, as your brain. Or Chris.

And you can remember everything. So pretty much Chris. And you have that going on in your head, and you can instantly produce stuff. Did you see the guy that, oh, sorry. So I got to back up a little bit in the story here. I got to back up, because one of my examples is great. So I'm using this to write all of my blog posts.

I'm using it to punch up copy that I'm writing, but there's no copy that I don't write. For example, I can go in, you know, everybody's looking for social media stuff to do. And everybody wants social media content. Like I don't know what to write. You can just ask this thing to write you either a video script or anything on any topic and it will spit it out perfectly you can ask it to write you 20 000 words on anything it'll spit it out now obviously as quick as you know as quick as something forces for good come up there are forces for evil you didn't see already over the weekend some princeton guy yeah some princeton kid decided to get his ass kicked by every fraternity

in the world by creating a program that detects if your homework was written by an AI bot. So sorry, sorry, college kids. Thanks, nerd. But uh, anyway, I'm using it for everything. But but just to show you the power cult of what it'll do. So me and Connell, you didn't come but me and Colin were at a networking event on Thursday. And we went, and it's always an eclectic group. It's my buddy Sean has this group, and it's always super eclectic. It's everybody. So I look over. How were they this time?

It was good. It was cool. No, it was good. It was good. No, no, no. Okay. It was good. I was dry.

I'm not doing dry January until I go to Austin in a couple days. And so just me standing in a bar while people are having a good time. I don't know if it would be like three people now because of the way those guys have their money invested. Oh, you know, I don't think any of those guys are even crypto anymore. But anyway, is that still their thing? Well, here's the thing. There's too many people on this now because now it says it's at capacity.

I can't even get in to read what it was. But anyway, we're standing at this event, and we're sitting there. And Chris is talking to somebody else, and I'm looking over, and he comes over and says, hey, you know that was and I go oh and it was somebody and keep in mind this weekend in Vegas we had two of the largest events that happened in Vegas do you think they purposely have them simultaneously it's gotta just be a tripping answer so yeah you have CES which is the consumer electronic show which is monster it brings in so much money and it brings in a cert highly male demographic.

Now the same kind of nerds, but I bought it. It brings them in, but it's also got, uh, we also have the AVN awards, which is the adult video network, whatever network awards while the porn stars come in. So as we're saying, you guys ain't come and support me on my win, but right now meet me either. Um, I won. What?

At the Avian awards, which, which is the question. What's the joke? Finish the joke. What award? What did you win for? What did you win for the cold?

Finish the joke. You don't just win. Now he's on the spot. I don't know. Nevermind. Yeah. See, uh,

joke on that joke not that there's anything wrong with that it's still a category category it's a category i assume anyway so connell looks over at me he goes you know that was we're talking to and i go no and he goes sophie d and i could tell from the name it was obviously a porn star. It's very prolific. I could tell. I could tell. How do you know who that is?

Well, hang on. 15 million followers. I don't know how you don't know. I'm like, I have no idea who this person is. Right. And I didn't. I had no clue who they were. And so anyway, it became this thing where it was like, whatever. So I come home and I'm using the chat bot to write me a soliloquies about Chris Connell's

immense porn knowledge that I'm texting him. I feel attacked right now. No, it was hilarious. I'm using it. I'm like, write it in the, write it like a Shakespearean sonnet. But it was spitting out. Let me see if I could find it. I might've texted.

This is amusing. Did you see why you're looking outside for us? I don't know why I think this is funny. So this person was talking, saying, oh, yeah, this person has 15 million social media followings, one of the biggest, you know, old fans, whatever. Oh, where to begin in describing the vast staggering amount of knowledge possessed by Chris Connell

on the subject of random porn stars. His mind is a veritable treasure trove of information on these lascivious letharios. Lascivious letharios. I don't know why they're letharios. Each one more obscure and obscurely learned about than the last. Chris could discourse at length on the favorite sexual proclivities of any number of exorbitant actresses,

reciting their filmographies with ease and aplomb of a bard recounting ancient legends. Truly, his encyclopedic knowledge of all things pornographic is a sight to behold in one. filmographies with ease and aplomb of a bard recounting ancient legends so it truly is encyclopedic knowledge of all things pornographic is a sight to behold how many sentences did you put in to get that no i just wrote right like a kid who got a thesaurus yeah it is i just i just said then i said then i said write it like dr seuss and i didn't see just that one that was hilarious but yeah i, literally this will do anything. Well, did you see the –

The pimp goes limp. No. Did you see the company that's trying to get somebody to give them a million bucks and let them have a case? Somebody defend them in court? AI defend them in court? Yeah. Oh, I saw that.

At the Supreme Court level. Because I guess they did it once for a dui and they're like well that's not hard but here's the thing but here's i mean is that i mean you have the wealth of knowledge if it can just disseminate what's being said i wouldn't really call a porn star lothario no not important i want to talk about that that's the problem screw up you're like you're like it's totally out of context it sounds like that kid who's like um how's your day going oh it's very cromulent like it's just so out of context it just sounds like a bot now now you know what it's like for us to sit here and listen to you half the time but we can't we don't know if you're saying it right yeah we just yeah we just we just not when you know you're saying it wrong it's a different dynamic i think you should just start

doing that just to screw with it it's funny though that i was sitting there kind of shocked that john didn't know first off in my defense that person you know i've seen in multiple social media pictures with people including my neighbor okay got it so i'm like aware of who that is because it's very it's very distinct don't don't stop trying to dig yourself out. John, pull her up. Let's look at her. Just know her Instagram where it's nice and face.

I want to see her face. No, I told him. I said I pulled her up, and I pulled her up, and I didn't go deep in the catalog, but I perused the top of the hits, and I was like, I've never seen this person. I don't know this person. John's like, oh, I already follow her.

I'm already subscribed to her. Yeah, so anyway, detecting fraud. But here's the thing, here's the thing. Even now, you look at it this way, and we all get these messages, and you're already getting them. And you get the, hey, is this Bill? Hey, is this Mike? Which in our text message group,

we take great pride in screwing with the bots to the point when the human gets on yeah that's a good one that was great but yeah when you get on there but how many people don't and as this stuff gets smarter and smarter and smarter i'm gonna have to like put a beeper on my mom's ankle to keep her from going to the bank hey no it's scary because we're fooling their money yeah i mean we get it to us so many times and we laugh because we we go off on it and we make it a fun thing right but it's working if it's getting hit that many times have you ever watched scammer payback this guy named pierogi is this the guy

that takes over their computers at call centers yeah yeah scammer payback pierogi i i love watching his show that's great you know it's not like that it doesn't but they've taken some of these buildings down with it and with the help of mark rober from um um the engineer guy the nasa scientist who has the the fart bomb that he does i love him i love him so mark rober and them they've all linked up together and they've shut some of these call centers down by by infiltrating them i love that awesome yeah so they they people are aware of them they prey on old people who don't know any better who just want to do the right thing but i would say i would say it's it's not there there's a whole old person department here but the old people want to do the right thing i follow the rules i agree i agree i

i think i think if you're an old person, you just got to question everything and don't, and don't, and always, you know, call somebody, call somebody, you gotta, you gotta call somebody. But I think this is, there's so many people that get scammed, get scammed out of money. Look at the Madoff people. They weren't old people. There's, these are, these are some of the smartest money managers in the world. So I think for me, the step one is never make any type of a financial decision or do anything that involves money when you are in any type of a bad place. I think if you are in a desperation spot, I think your lens is probably not objective enough to make decisions with your last.

It's like in poker, right? You go on tilt. You lose a couple hands. You go on tilt. You start throwing them all in on nothing. You're chasing it. Right? You're chasing it. And I think a lot of people do that too, and they lose money. And I think that's what you see, especially in the real estate space, right? There's always people that want to raise money, and they're fundraising, and the deals aren't real, and the paperwork's not good, and they end up losing money. Because I can tell you the biggest problem in real estate

investing, right? And it's everywhere now. And it's crazy when you see how many people are in the real estate investment space that are not licensed, are not governed by anybody, will tell you anything. And quite frankly, a lot of the people that I meet or have been around or exposed to in the real estate investment arena, all right, are people that are not highly educated. We've talked about this. They are blunt instruments that are like, if I just bang, if I go door to door on 250 of these empty houses, I will find one and skip trace somebody that will sell it to me at 60% of market value.

And then they go out and then they try to raise money to do the deal. And I'm in groups where it's all day long. People looking for, hey, I'm looking for a partner. I'm still looking for a lender, looking for a lender, looking for a lender. I have the deal. I have the deal. I'm looking for a lender, looking for partners. And the problem is where these guys get in trouble, this is where they get in trouble,

is they start doing more than one project. And then they start robbing Peter to pay Paul. And how that works is like, because a lot of people don't understand when you invest in real estate, especially if you do fix and flip, right? If you do fix and flip, well, when you do fix and flip, part of your loan, when you acquire a loan, a fix and flip loan is they say, okay, we're going to loan you 70% on the after repaired value of the house. That's what we're going to give you. Okay. And then we will hold back an escrow,'s what we're going to give you okay and then we

will hold back in escrow the amount you're requesting to do the repairs let's say it's 40 grand so what you do is you do some of the work and then you submit pictures to the lender and say look i've got this much done i've got 25 of it done send me 10 grand and then i got half of it done send me the other 10 grand have three quarters done to me 10 grand hey everything's done something last 10 grand what a lot of these send me the other 10 grand. Hey, everything's done, send me the last 10 grand. But what a lot of these guys will do is they will get short. They'll start using the rehab money to maybe fund their next deal. Say they need $10,000 to close a deal or to do EMDs.

They'll be like, oh, I can take this money. And instead of paying the contractors or putting it actually into the house, I can do this. So they start trading on the rehab money. And that's where you see guys just get absolutely smoked. Now, if you're somebody that has invested in one of these deals and that's happening, you have a real problem because they could potentially run out of money just like made. I mean, it's essentially kind of a Ponzi scheme when they're doing that.

Because essentially- It's over leveraged. Well, it's not over leveraged. But when you sign the agreement with those lendersenders you're saying i will use these funds for this property you're not supposed to use them for other things now they have no idea once they send you the check if you pay your contractor or what you do with that money yeah when you start bouncing that money around it creates the need to all sudden you're like oh shit i'm short so the only way i can get i can get good with this is to buy another property with another paper chase. Yeah. The only thing about that,

that's different as a guy in the investment space is I'm returning 35% a year, you know, like on the fix the flip. Yeah. People over leverage themselves by taking on too much, right? Yeah. They get too in deep. That's why most new businesses fail. They're too successful too quickly, and that creates a cash flow issue. So they don't have the cash to pay for replacement inventory, for example, right? So they have all these orders.

So it's always important to have a credit facility that you can work with in the event that that happens, right? For the positive reasons. People don't. They come in undercapitalized, and they don't understand. And like John's saying, they just see this money as theirs, whether or not it is matured yet, whether or not they're entitled to it yet. There's a lot of money I have in my bank account as a lawyer and trust.

It's not my money. A third of it might be, but I haven't earned it yet until they get their two-thirds or whatever. So that's not my money. I've never once looked at my trust account and went, look at all this money I have in my account one day. Money is mine when it hits operating. The problem is people go and buy Rolex with that money.

It's crazy. It's not that they're funding it into another thing to make it, right? They're buying a car. They're buying Rolexes or buying whatever. I tell people all the time, I mean, this last week, I've met with three different investors last month, like 10, right? And they're like, well, I can do this. I got this guy. I go take the last 10 years of track records and throw it out the window. Cause I could have taken a piece of shit and it would have gone up 200%. Sure. Like it's, there was, there are so many uneducated. That's what,

you know, I've been approached to do funds and I'm like, so wait, so what's the, well, and here's the, well, and here's the thing. I think the problem there is most people that are running some sort of an operation that involves running, raising money or raising capital or taking on partners. They haven't for them to be able to pull off getting the investment for them to be able to pull off. Like I'm, I'm good enough for you to invest in. They have to have a certain level of unwavering confidence that lets them think.

Bernie Madoff never thought that was going to fall apart. No. It never even occurred to him it would fall apart. Right. He thought. He broke even once. He insulated his kids. He insulated everybody from it.

He thought he would die and it would just go away. That's what he genuinely thought. That's why he insulated everybody from that business. That's why he didn't set up a succession plan. That was his whole idea. But when you have that unwavering confidence, that's when you get like a friend of mine is having a problem right now. They have several different companies.

And you got into that, well, this company is going to loan some money to that company because I don't want the partners of that company to know that we're not doing well. So now all of a sudden, thinking that he would just pull it back together, and then this would come back, and it's like, bro, this is a mess. Like, you can't, like, if that company, if this company over here is not doing well, you've got to tell the partners it's not doing well, and then you've got to do a capital call on it, or it folds. You can't prop it up with another company. Here to pay Paul, right?

You can't do that. And as we were having this conversation, and I was trying to help him through that. It was like, is that somebody that I, this is a mess. No, it's going to be, you know, but I was like, this is a mess. And, and I was like, you need, this is somebody that called me and was like, can you help me? I'm luckily the person that, you know, that called me. Yeah. I tell you about that. No, a friend of ours called and just said, look, you know, and this was the right call that he made to me. The person that you know called and said, he sent me a text and essentially just said,

hey man, I did 10 million in sales last year. I just don't know how to financially run a company. That's yes. That guy. That guy. Right. And that, but that was the right call. That's a good call.

And I followed and I helped him with some stuff and I followed up with him the other day and I said, did you get yourself sorted out? He said, yes, I did. Which was good because that, which was good. Because that was the right call to make. Reaching out for help, yeah. Yeah, understanding there's a problem and going to fix it. But so many people will try to not fix it. So, again, how do you avoid yourself from getting scammed by people

and getting with the wrong people? Now, number one, I think it's very important, again, is not to make decisions when you're in a bad spot. Because I think if you're in a bad spot, you're wanting to shove your chips in. But also, I think that a big part of this, and I kind of blame it on, like, why did FTX, why did that happen? Why was it able to happen? There's no controls.

It's not only there's no controls but well but but digital currency nfts all of that stuff became the frat boy casino because there's no controls right there's no controls but it became the frat boy casino the whole hustle mentality of gary v like all of that stuff has contributed to this easiest the easiest way to get to from a to b i'm not somebody so we've talked a lot and I know all three of us in the room probably have a different opinion about this. I have a strong opinion that if I was going to bet on horses, I would bet on the horse that had an MBA versus the guy who's like, I went to Hustler University, you know, like to me. And it's because there's like a certain level

of risk management that comes with certain traditional paths. Like, you know what I'm saying? I'm not denigrating people. There's a lot of people we know and we've talked about that pulled themselves up and they have a high school education,

but they're really smart and they're good with people and they make amazing realtors because they really care and they grind it out and they really do all that good stuff right those people we hold up to high esteem because it's you didn't have to follow a traditional path right but then there's the guy who goes well that guy didn't follow a traditional path so i'm going to kind of mimic what i've seen other people do but i have no substance i have no moral compass that's

that's like the norm mcdonald like uh there's the one old guy that smokes, and he's the reason why you can still smoke. Yeah, but I know it kills you from cancer, but what about old man McDermott there? He's been smoking for 72 years, and he's fine. He's fine. So therefore, that's the standard. So people do that. What do they call that? They affirm the antecedent or whatever.

They have this confirmation bias. And it's like, you know, you see guys on social media, I won't say names, but they're out there and you know that they're working very hard and they have unwavering belief in themselves and they're good realtors, right? But then there's these other people that are clueless. They haven't, they don't go home and read books on stuff.

They don't know their trade. They don't know their craft and they're kind of lazy. They want easy money. Yeah, because I think that's become the culture. That's become- And that's just why there's so much fraud going out there right now. It's the easiest, which is crazy. Everybody wants something so quick.

So I think you got to ask yourself when you look at an opportunity- What are the controls? What are the controls to this? Who's controlling the money? If anybody tells you anything's guaranteed, run from that. And who is controlling the money? Or it's easy. guaranteed run run from that who is controlling the money it's easy i don't like that phrase either yeah this guy does this percent every day or whatever i say no he doesn't that means there's arbitrage that means in all economic theory that's going to be that's either been gobbled up or would have been gobbled

up if it was actually that the only the only easy one is if you're insider trading well that's right right like if you're selling pictures. Well, that's right. Or selling pictures of your feet. Or stuff like that. Or sticking a gun in someone's ribs. It's not risk-adjusted zero. And you're nobody special, right? I mean, unless you're like a multi-billionaire and they're like, hey, you've got enough clout that you guys can pull markets.

The average and above the people making multiple millions, you're not that special. You're 100% right. You're not that special. Too good to be true. And Warren Buffett gets pipes with private investment opportunities and public entities. So GE will go to Warren Buffett and be like, hey,

we're going to create this new preferred. We're going to carve it out. It's a guaranteed 8% for you because we need this for this project. We go to Warren. We get this done. We're a public entity, but we can bypass SEC offerings with the pipe or whatever because he's so accredited. He's there.

I would say also another thing that I'm going to warn you of, and this is personal experience because the worst smoke that I ever got on investing in something I shouldn't have done, this is why it happened. This is why it happened was beware the dog and pony show. So I'm going to tell you, beware the bright lights and the flashy thing. Monorail.

Be, be, beware, beware, dude, I got. So the worst biggest financial hit I ever took was a result of one two day trip when somebody I knew said hey why don't you go with me on this trip where we're going well we're

going to this this auction this property is being auctioned off in uh Sun Valley and I and I got this deal we're going to put money down on it to bid and then i'm gonna help my buddy who runs the auction thing whatever it was so all right so he goes yeah we're gonna go we're gonna take a plane and this was not the plane that i ended up buying later several years later this is several years before and i said we're gonna take a plane but you know because we have a plane we're gonna take so here i am i'm like i get on private jet this is maybe the second or third time in my life i've ever been on a private jet. Again, the private jet, we fly up. This house was owned by Dick Fold, who was the president of Lehman Brothers. I think.

No. Yeah. Lehman Brothers. Not known. Yeah. Dick Fold. It was. And yeah, Lehman. And it was his house was being auctioned off after he lost everything. So here I am, I'm walking out of Dick Fold's house, who was the head of Lehman Brothers. And I'd fly up there in private jets and all this stuff. And, you know, dad, this is how we do it. And this is what we're going to do. And we need to start a fund. You could raise the money. We can do this and that.

So I went out and raised for this entity. I mean, I put my money in. I raised almost a million bucks, which at the time was a lot. And here it is. I wound up paying it all back personally. You know what I mean? When that whole enterprise went south and that bag of money took off. Oh, really?

To another part of the part of the country. I wound up paying everybody off personally. I don't think I know that. And all of that. Yes, you do. Because you represented some of the lawsuits. It's the one that later on. Oh, yeah.

You know who it is. on oh you know who that is but no but the reality of it is is i got sucked in from the dog and pony show because i was like here i am i'm going to work every day i'm grinding and i gotta look i got a very nice life i like how i like where i'm at i'm financially secure but i ain't going to dick fold's house on a private jet i want it man i'm telling you sounds big time i wanted it fast and i want it now and this is how these guys were doing it and i wanted in and that's what it was that's a tough one though because that's a real that's not an intangible pie in the sky it's not a fake it's instagram post yeah it's not an instagram right you get on a jet with people that you know

yeah i don't know if that's necessarily yeah but but here's the thing though in retrospect i genuinely believe that was all smoke and mirrors probably to close that deal because that person at the time had probably burned every single bridge with everybody they're working with which is why they wanted to come to may and get another run yeah yeah i think all of that was hyper-calculated. Which is sick, right? When you think about there's people playing three steps of fraud ahead of you. Holy smokes.

I mean, I don't have a diabolical mind. I don't. I honestly don't. No, listen. I'm not saying that person intended at that moment to defraud me in the end. They probably had the best intentions, but they also knew that I could raise the money they could not. Right.

But did they know that if shit hit the fan they would bail oh yeah i think i think self-preservation was probably programmed in that person do you see what i'm saying so that's so so every bad guy in jail thinks they're the good guy that just had a bad shake or whatever everybody has the self-deception of course so you got to understand, your liars and your thieves and your cheats, very few genuine sociopaths will come up and be like straight up fraud, fake checks that you know. What it's going to be is people making bad decisions, compounding those bad decisions with more bad decisions, and then self-preservation becoming a key paramount.

You know what? And I got to tell you, I got, I think it's, maybe it's the Madoff thing. Maybe that's what it is. But man, I woke up at three o'clock in the morning,

like a sweat. Cause, cause, cause my coach that I'm working with, um, that coaches me. And I talked to about me, you know,

I've got some investments out there that are, that are fairly large, that are handshakes that, you know, they're real estate investment deals that maybe are not going as well as I wanted them to. And it was just this ambiguity of not understanding that, you know, they're real estate investment deals that maybe are not going as well as I wanted them to. And it was just this ambiguity of not understanding that, that myself and my partners all had the same perception of the outcome of what was going to happen to these investments if the outcome did not go the way we wanted. And I woke up this morning, first thing,

and I called one of the partners and I said, look, I need to get clarity here, you know, in writing as to what the expectation is that we're going to do here. And I'll tell you, the conversation was a great conversation. And the people I talked to this morning were all like, look, here's the deal. We're not worried about it. This is going to be fine. And if it's not, we're going to pay everybody off anyway over the years because we plan on being here doing business anyway. That's right.

And I thought that was good. And again, maybe it's gun shy from the hit I took before or whatever, but if I think understanding and constant reassurance and understanding where you really stand with people is very important. Well, anybody that you ask to paper up a deal properly, if anybody pushes back on anything about it, you need to bail. You need to terminate that. That's what Bernie did. Right. Yeah. Anytime somebody approached him. So I'll give you your money back. Yeah. I'll give you your money back. Don't ask questions. People are like, Oh, I want to get kicked out of this thing.

But like you said, don't, don't invest your last nickel. Right. Cause you're, I also think that when money's going really good, I think people don't, don't do their due diligence on investments or people they're hooking up with when money's good and they just start throwing stuff, right? You're right. I think both spectrums is a bad thing to do. I mean, it's just...

Rich people think they got there because they're super smart. Oh, man. Everybody thinks they are. In a head-flipping competition, if you have 10,000 people flipping heads, there's going to be some guy who flips seven heads in a row. He's not an expert head flipper. It's a survivorship bias, it's called.

And so these people that have made money over time, they just haven't been blown up. That's how I feel with the real estate. There's a certain amount of people out there. Colt, I'm sure you've dealt on one side or the other with a lot of them on the commercial side. Residential. The market's just been their playground. Playground. on one side or the other with a lot of them on a commercial side, you know, residential markets

has been their playground playground. Well, there's luck. And now let's say, let's say, for example, let me ask you this, Chris, let's say, and this is a pro this is a problem that most people do. Right. So right now there's a lot of investments, especially in the multifamily space. I saw somebody in one of my groups the other day posted, they said, look, I underwrote three multifamily deals this week, and the values are off to less than the bridge loans that were issued to acquire the properties. Yeah, I talked with them about that. Yeah, 2021.

And the comment was just, buckle your seatbelt. This is going to get wild in the multifamily space because that got, like, you think single family got accelerated? Holy shit balls. I mean, multi multifamily went berserk the last three years. So what do you think is going to happen? It's going to, but because the, I don't know, I don't know what's going to happen. Walk that back though.

Just as an interesting point, because what does that mean? What that means is five years when they got to get their balloon payment, they're going to be fucked. They're going to be screwed. The investor plan, the wise investor movement when you take on a multifamily is what you want to do is you want to find one that you can do one of two things. You can either A, cause it to appreciate by forced appreciation

by improving the amenities, by improving the units, by improving those things. And then you can also do, I'm sorry, you can also do forced appreciation by raising the rents. Raising the rents changes the value of the property, obviously, because the cash flow is different, the cap rate's different, and there you go. But what you want to do is you never want to do the whole place. Say you're going to renovate the units, right? You never want to renovate 100% of them. You want to improve the buildings, you want to improve the amenities, and then renovate maybe 25% or 30% of them so you can still go to the next guy and say hey i

left some meat on the bone for you to force appreciate this thing yep i can get in get my little snippy and get out well what's happening now is a lot of these that got acquired at top dollar they took bridge loans with like colt said three to five year balloons on them where you have to get out of these loans they're like dude, dude, you're due on this date. And now all of the sudden, the values of these units to sell on the, hey, to the next guy, we forced appreciated it. Even with all of that forced appreciation,

they are still below the value of the bridge loan they took in the first place. Right. Their DSCR is 75%. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's's scary let me tell you a story when I worked at the I externed at federal bankruptcy court for Judge Markell there was this guy in doing his chapter 11 plan I don't know if I've ever told this story I don't think I have but anyway he was sitting there this young guy when he was in his early 20s he was a pizza hut driver he found out through the grapevine or whatever that there was going to be the Walmart on Arroyo or Arroyo Crossing, I think is what it was.

I think it was that property. So he found out that there was going to be a Walmart there, somewhere over there, right? I don't know if he's in the Pizza Hut kitchen and here's some guys talking about this Walmart going in, whatever. He figures it out. Hey, there's this piece of property across the street. So he buys it. He gets his probably friends and family. Does enough fundraising where he gets this property, though.

Okay. So then sure enough, they announce. So now he has this leverage ability to say there's a Walmart going in there. Sure. I'm going to break ground. So he breaks ground. Right. Gets all this.

Gets construction financing. Everything is perfect. They open, you go to do this. The timing, I can't remember, but this was around 2010. Okay. So I don't know when this project started, 2008 maybe. Anyway, he gets everything teed up. This building is 97 97 fully leased out at above market rents kid crushed it home run yeah right we're in chapter 11 court though why because his construction loan came due and there was nowhere else to find there's no one to pay yeah couldn't get perm financing 2008 2009 2010 there was no credit markets were dead yeah toast so it was literally in the bowels right that 2010 point where there was no money anything so this kid had to file an 11 and the creditors were fighting him saying hey go out and get some 15 hard money which totally screws up the traditional you know number. You can't make it work because when hard money is going for 15% fully secured,

it's nuts. This kid did everything right. So I talked to the judge about it. Because the credit markets went south, he got screwed. But again, construction financing is a credit card, right? Yeah. These bridge loans are a credit card. These aren't things.

You're not entitled to permanent financing. No. You have to convince somebody you're credit worthy. Yeah. I had an expert disqualified in a Chapter 12 bankruptcy in Reno based on that exact point. They were trying to tell me that the credit worthiness of these individuals was only affected by the value of the land. And I said, no, it's the individual's ability to pay. And Judge Bixler up in Reno disqualified the economics expert during an evidentiary prove-up hearing on this very basis. Because I said, are you telling me that people that are in default

are 25 basis points greater risk-adjusted on an asset capital model than is the Bank of United States of America? And he's, well, yeah, because it's about the value of the land. And anyway, so he disqualified him as an expert on that basis alone. So bankruptcy has, my experience in bankruptcy has been very valuable to understand. It's not always that you made a bad decision. It's that you are the result of bad timing. There's going to be some guy who's at the beach during a maelstrom.

When a typhoon comes in, there was somebody at the beach. What happened to the property? So he had to restructure it for whatever it was, and he had to go through. And I talked to the judge. I'm like, well, what do you think he's going to do? He's like, I don't know because there's only so much we can do here because this is a viable program.

So under 1129 plan, you can have your bankruptcy confirmed if your plan under 1129 is viable. Well, I want, let's talk. I want to talk about that too, because I have an interesting situation that came up a couple of weeks ago and it was, um, it's,

it's has to do with bankruptcy, which is this, which you've talked about. I, you've talked about, yeah, you've, you've talked about,

you've talked about that, right? You've talked about that, but let's say you've invested with this real estate person that is, that has done the Rob Peter to pay Paul from each house, and now it's going south. Right. And let's say you think, it doesn't need to be real estate, whatever investment it is, whatever you've done. You've invested in their trucking business, whatever it is.

Can they go bank or crime? Hang on. Hang on a second. Hang on a second. No. I'm going to tell you what I feel to be, it is going to be your visceral gut reaction that you have got to control which is this if things start to go south let's say you invest in and i invest in colt's widget company which we know is i mean dumbass me i knew he's he's got no qualifications

zero qualifications anybody that runs best non-sexual performance in a pornographic film at the avian awards has no business running a widget company I know this but I like cult right right so I Invest in cult I invest in Colts widget business and then it starts to go south and I think like I'm not getting my money Back on the schedule. I'm getting back like say you've done this and this is you and I'm talking to you and you can hear this I think the worst thing you can do is start blazing colt everything in your body is going to be like you mother trucker where's my money you saw this you were supposed to do that and start recanting everything they were supposed to do i think if you start that if you do that you are driving that person to your office

to declare bankruptcy that's right you've got to, and it's going to be against every single fiber in your body. You've got to get on the let me help you team. You've got to get on the what can we do to get the widget company back on track? How can I get you to stop being the non-sexual pizza delivery guy in the porno? Sure. Even though you're award, sorry, award winning, non-sexual performance pizza delivery guy in the porno sure even though you're award sorry award-winning non-sexual performance pizza guy in the porno award-winning sorry when you search thespians it's a different thing yeah it's a totally different thing no but how can i how can i

get you said do that and get you back in in the widget business get doing you've got to become you've got to go cheerleader and try to protect your money. Because if you become a headache to that person, they're going to BK you. One of my favorite quotes ever. Was what? Is if you owe the bank $10,000, it's your problem. If you owe the bank $10 million, it's their problem. Yeah. Okay.

So just understand there are these tools out there for people that are going to be going through some hard times. They are. Bankruptcy filings, I was talking to one of my dear friends, Matt. He's a wonderful bankruptcy filer. You won't come to my office to file bankruptcy. You will call me, and I'll put you in touch with Matt. Matt and I did the national bankruptcy moot court together.

We represented our school and state in New York for a national competition. Cole played football in high school. Yeah. Oh, I did. But Matt's a very brilliant mind. And his partner right now is actually on life support. So it's Hamlin. Is that TMI for us, Cole?

No, no, no, no. No, it's one of those things. Tell your friends you love them. Yeah. Tell your friends you love them. Tell your business partners you love them. Have a succession plan for your business. All right, there you go.

But at the end of the day, what's going to happen is you come to the office and we tell you hey look this is a business decision to make right right yeah john lent colt a million dollars for this widget business is this widget business going to make it no then that debt is bankruptable right okay because if you want this widget business to go on, he needs to either work with you, take a haircut, restructure, do whatever, but you have to,

so there's powers of the bankruptcy court to do that on purpose. Now you think he would have at least had a widget booth at the avian trade show. And it's candy to a baby. Yeah. So you could add it. The widget booth was spent 200 grand on the booth. But here's, here's booth. All right, okay.

But here's the other thing, though, too. Don't think that you can go out and do something illegal and have it ratified by the court. No, you cannot. You cannot. You can plan for bankruptcy, by the way. I don't want to make this a bankruptcy thing, but it's just something important to understand

because this will be coming up for a lot of people. Under 507 and 508, they'll look back at what are called preferential transfers. One is unlimited, actually. If it's been done for the lot of people. Under 507 and 508, they'll look back at what are called preferential transfers. One is unlimited, actually, if it's been done for the purpose of fraud, right? And then one is within the last 90 days or presumptively fraudulently transferred, okay? So what that is, they can claw that back. And when you have a situation, right, where you file a bankruptcy, there's a state, all this stuff gets created. If you've done something that's illegal, right, the people who you've done it to can file

what's called an adversarial proceeding, which is a lawsuit in the bankruptcy court. So there are ways of recapturing things if people have actually committed fraud. Now, the problem is, as John pointed out, John very aptly pointed out, he goes, I don't think the guy, and maybe we don't want to air this in case it becomes evidence one day.

No, no, no, no, no, no. I i don't think he intentionally at the time of the airplane i think there i think there became a very specific plan okay later on down the line that's a very good point to think about right it's in order to commit fraud to be guilty of fraud fraud is a specific type of thing in crime there's possibly carrying three times damages etc in order to be guilty of fraud you had to have fraudulent intent at the time it was done yeah okay can't just be like john and i were trying to do this thing let me ask you that let me ask you this if i have a contract with you that says you cannot touch your left foot yeah you are well aware of that contract you you sign that contract you will never touch your left foot and you touch your left foot did you not willfully understand that you are breaking the contract yeah but you know your example is is particularly

um it needs to be beefed up because it's a foot no no i mean look i know i went deep with the whole no no no non-non-pornographic backstory on that with you raise another good point and with you i just go with the foot you raise another good point. With you, I just go with the foot. No, but you raise another good point. You drained me today, Colt. All the good stuff went at you. No, you have to do something that's actually a crime in and of itself. So don't commit this crime. And I say, okay, and then I commit the crime.

Okay. Don't take your money. Because everybody, here's another thing people don't understand. That in business, you're protected legally by a thing called the business judgment rule. So if John and i are let's say we uh uh take over colt's widget company he goes and pursues his his suckers be in dreams his dreams of being a true thespian not just the pizza boy he goes on uh traveling you know hamlet show or whatever so john and i take over the widget business he takes it over as a creditor

you walk away you know in lieu of having him executing your personal guarantee. I know you're serious and I'm smiling over here because like now I'm thinking, you know, Mike Tyson had his one man show, right? I'm thinking, God, I could have a one man show on. I saw Chaz Palmeteri. He's breaking up the band, right? He's breaking up the band right here in front of us. I saw Chaz Palmeteri. Cole's trying to go solo right now. He's already playing out the record. Chaz Palmeter's one-man rendition of a bronx tale is phenomenal by the way just as an aside but at the end of the day john and i go do this widget company and john goes chris you're such a good actual widget master i'm gonna let you do this and i say you know what we should do john we should take these widgets and our operating agreement says i'm legally allowed to do

whatever i want in this llc so i said i'm going to sell all the widget stuff and i'm going to start making banners for colt's one-. Right. And that tanks obviously, because nobody wants to go see the one man show. So the business fails. The public people, what they want, Chris, I mean, but it doesn't take and I'm the manager. Okay. So you can't sue me. Can we stop for a second? I feel like what is, what is tanking? Is that not no no what is what is tanking is that not breaking even is that no i tank i literally go to smattering a few people in the audience no let's say there's there's it's it's yvette who's there reluctantly no she would be the one that won it you got that wrong i'm a good friend of his so i would be there supporting him with the banner that i paid print. We bought this new printing material.

We bought this whole new print shop. It goes tank. So you're saying you went full Miramax production marketing on this and then it just did not work. Take it to zero. Because you're all in on it, Cole. You can't sue me. See, you should appreciate that. No, I appreciate it.

So you can't sue me, though, under the business judgment rule because I can articulate. Say, I thought we had a really good opportunity here and i took a shot and we failed you can't say this guy got me in on these widgets and then he started doing this he he brought out new coke instead of you know coke you can't sue the executives of coke for new coke you know you can't you're allowed to make bad business decisions without it being creating liability so it's called the business judgment rule. But you could have in your partnership agreement, you can't spend X. All mine is like anything over five grand. You have to have approval. That comes down to controls. Controls. Exactly. Controls. I think the last thing I want to talk about when it comes to this is if you get in a

bad spot with an investment somewhere or somebody else, the one thing you can't do is you cannot perpetuate the bad idea or the bad position to somebody else to save your own skin. And what I mean by that, I got a call from somebody a couple of weeks ago and they said, Hey, um, I need some advice. And I said, sure. And I was in, I was having this conversation. They said, I'm in this investment. I don't think it's going to go well. We did a, we did a bridge or a gap loan for this deal. It's taken forever. I, I got the money. It's some of my money and some of my friend's money. My friend is freaking out. They're every day freaking out. So I got this other guy that I know that has a ton of money

that he would literally could just take out my position right now. What would you do? And I said, do you think the situation is going to get any better? And they not and i said so you'd basically be burning his money to protect yours and they were like ah yeah i kind of would be doing that and i said then you can't do it not if you want to do business anywhere you you're because you don't let your reputation become soiled on something else and if you and here's the thing man this is why i am very like i already did that i lived it where i raised like i said almost a million bucks whatever it was 750 000 however much i was and i was responsible for that money there was no well it's a bad investment whoops

things went to zero i mean i paid all those people off pgs and stuff because that was my reputation to pay that off i mean i was going to pay it off for girls i could have i could say well you know i mean it said in the documents when some lose some but you know i i wasn't willing to pay that off. I mean, I was going to pay it off for girls. I could have said, well, you know, I mean, it said in the documents when some lose some, but you know, I, I wasn't willing to do that. And that's what goes back to doing your due diligence. Why are you selling me off your stake?

Right? Like it's, I, I saw something. That's the, that's the, that's the Forex trading mentality. If you're so good at trading Forex, why do you need my money?

That's like everywhere you look on social media. Like we get spammed at Simply Vegas constantly over the, I gave all my money to Molly Wilson, the Forex trader, and I gave, she turns it back. It's like reviews, comments, everything, and it's dreadful. Well, think about this too. There's that whole, if you're playing a game of poker, you don't know who the sucker is, it's youful well think about this too there's that whole if you're playing a game of poker you don't know the sucker is it's you or whatever yeah if if you're the guy that's if this guy's like hey let me teach you how to make you all this money right and it's for some

of these things now again i don't want to be little coaching i don't want to be a little mentorship because to some people it's valuable to do and i know some people that do an exceptional job and i'm not it's like you have to bifurcate because there's real people and there's fake people and everything yeah so this is only directed at the fake people right let me teach you how to do this thing that if i had the money to and was doing that would be very successful i'd be great wait a minute why would you teach other people how to do it you're just making money you know you're the pick and the axe guy in the gold rush yeah you're the guy selling you're levi you're

selling jeans right now you're not you are not the guy you're saying no no let's go get gold together meanwhile you're like here but just buy my pickaxes right i'm not gonna go swing a shot you know one of my favorite things never buy a protest sign from the guy that's telling you about the cause. That's a good idea. Well, I think, you know, man, hopefully, you know, you guys got something out of that today, and you'll be careful with your money. You'll be careful with your partnerships.

You'll navigate this new, man, paradigm that's going out there, but it's going to be coming fast and furious. People are looking for you to invest in certain things, and there are great investments out there, and there are terrible investments out there. Check your controls. You just got to be coming fast and furious people looking for you to invest in certain things and there are great investments out there and there are terrible investments out check your controls watch the controls and again i'd like to say one other thing that just happened to me recently this individual was buying a business through a business broker buying out as partner and i have to tell you business i have to tell you, you want to talk about a very unsophisticated process through somebody that I would have assumed was very buttoned up. So I'm not trying to take my

own industry. Just to tell you that, that is a bit, that is a line of business in real estate that I refuse to let happen at my brokerage, which is business brokerage, because the books are always cooked. They're always cooked. And as soon as the new buyer gets in and realizes, wait a second, we've never done $50,000 a month in sales, like these books all said. We got to the EBITDA. We've never done that.

As soon as that happens, they turn on Sue Everybody. So I have no interest in those losses. What are you buying? Yeah. What are you buying? Well, it says inventory. Yeah. What is that? Show me the FFB. Can I see? Can I see the list? interest in those what are you buying yeah what are you buying what says inventory yeah what is

inventory show me this can i can i see yeah can i see the list who are you do you have debts oh yeah we'll we'll add that now why do i have to tell you these things you're the you it's your business yep i do not like that i do not like that having your left on the lease with no options yeah and a business as specifically for that location with fixtures and the money you're paying for other fridges in the place i'm telling you guys that would be the number one thing that i would focus on is have a lawyer review of course all of that all that stuff just that's not toot my own industry's horn here that was painful yeah no that's i didn't believe it was gonna happen stuck away from that terrible so colt i'm gonna give you the floor that's i didn't believe it was gonna happen we've always stuck away from that

terrible so colt i'm gonna give you the floor because you probably didn't get enough time news i'm thinking they probably played well what news you know what we can talk about uh saw a big commercial for iphone you know what their new iphone's coming out you know what their big sales thing is this time stabilizer on the camera yeah samsung got that about 2016 guys so just to throw it out there so cold out there piece of shit you probably got you probably got played short on the stage so i'd like to you no i'm over here thinking my one-man show it's going to be like but i'm saying i'm saying this saying this, give the people just cold, give the people, give the people a little taste, tell them what you say, give them your

acceptance for your best, for your best non sexual performance in a pornographic film and try and try to sell some widgets in there. If you can't do, let me tell you this. Go ahead. Have you guys ever tried to act? I took acting lessons, yeah. It's hard as shit. I love it. It's hard, though. It's fun. Yeah, it's hard. Have you ever tried to act?

I know you're on the reality show, but like acting? No, no, no, no. I grew up in the theater. I did. I grew up in the theater. My mother was a big, was heavily involved in the college theater program in my hometown. I grew up, I starred in my first play, like an adult play. I starred in my first

adult play at age 13. What was it? Hamilton? The thespians here. He thinks we're saying lesbians. That's why he shows up. He shows up thinking there's lesbians here. Lesbians. Group chat. No. You guys would be's a lesbian scene. Read the chat. Group chat, Rob.

You guys would be a great lesbian couple. I have this, which is funny. I have this, which is funny. Are we going to talk about my thespian greatness or no? I don't care. I'm over here thinking about starting an antique shop with you. I have a playbill for my starring role that was signed by a guy. It was a play called First Confession.

And it was. He was a 13-year-old. No, I was a 13-year-old boy. Yes, Cole. It was not a movie you started. No, it's not. So anyway, no, it's not that. But no, I started.

You know what? I'm not going to tell you the story. It's an award right there. Congratulations, Sean. And with that, we'll see. If you're going to move, forgive me, father.

Hey, it's John Gafford. If you want to catch up more and see what we're doing, you can always go to the John Gafford.com. Well, we'll share any links that we have things we talked about on the show, as well links to the youtube where you can watch us live and if you want to catch up with me on instagram you can always follow me at thejohngafford i'm here give me a shout