Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - From Adversity to Triumph: Shawn Meaike’s Journey to Building a Billion-Dollar Insurance Empire

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Join us as we welcome the extraordinary Shawn Meaike, a powerhouse in the insurance world who defied the odds to build a billion-dollar empire from the ground up. Shawn's story is a testament to resilience and ambition, molded by a childhood filled with challenges and the unwavering support of his single mother. From working with abused and neglected children to making strategic moves in real estate, Shawn shares how these pivotal experiences shaped his vision and fueled his drive for success.   Our conversation takes a deep dive into the transformation of adversity into opportunity. Shawn opens up about the personal struggles and triumphs that informed his approach to business and life. We explore the pivotal role sports played as both a refuge and a developmental tool, and how his family's history in real estate influenced his career path. Shawn's journey is a rich tapestry of overcoming obstacles and seizing moments to carve out a prosperous and meaningful life.   As the episode unfolds, Shawn imparts valuable insights on leveraging technology and social media to propel business growth, build personal brands, and create a culture of leadership. We tackle the intricacies of real estate management, the ethics of property management practices, and the art of scaling a successful insurance agency. Through engaging anecdotes and thought-provoking discussions, Shawn offers lessons on judging character, nurturing resilience, and mastering the art of communication, providing listeners with inspiration and practical takeaways for their own journeys.   CHAPTERS    (00:00) - Rags to Riches (05:14) - Overcoming Obstacles and Achieving Success (13:27) - Transforming Addictions Into Service (17:29) - Navigating Real Estate Development and Challenges (24:44) - Property Management and Insurance Business (30:31) - Building a Successful Insurance Agency (38:27) - Scaling Business Through Social Media Influence (42:26) - Building Remote Work Culture Without Offices (52:21) - Judging Character and Building Resilience (01:00:07) - Success Through Communication and Adaptation (01:05:26) - Engaging Audience for Escaping the Drift   💬 Did you enjoy this podcast episode? Tell us all about it in the comment section below!    ☑️  If you liked this video, consider subscribing to Escaping The Drift with John Gafford  ************* 💯 About John Gafford: After appearing on NBC's "The Apprentice", John relocated to the Las Vegas Valley and founded several successful companies in the real estate space.   ➡️ The Gafford Group at Simply Vegas, top 1% of all REALTORS nationwide in terms of production. Simply Vegas, a 500 agent brokerage with billions in annual sales Clear Title, a 7-figure full-service title and escrow company.   ➡️ Streamline Home Loans - An independent mortgage bank with more than 100 loan officers. The Simply Group, A national expansion vehicle partnering with large brokers across the country to vertically integrate their real estate brokerages.   *************   ✅ Follow John Gafford on social media:   Instagram ▶️ / thejohngafford   Facebook ▶️ / gafford2   🎧 Stream The Escaping The Drift Podcast with John Gafford Episode here: Listen On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7cWN80gtZ4m4wl3DqQoJmK?si=2d60fd72329d44a9 Listen On Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/escaping-the-drift-with-john-gafford/id1582927283    *************   #escapingthedrift #shawnmeaike #resilience #ambition #success #realestate #insurance #adversity #leadership #technology #socialmedia #propertymanagement #scalingbusiness #remotework #characterjudgment #communication #adaptation #personalgrowth #overcomingobstacles #familydynamics #sports #realestatedevelopment #propertymanagementpractices #leadgeneration #virtualmeetings #culture #competition #trust #psychology #education #marketing #experientiallearning

See early on I was really excited about but I've got to a point like you know what if I do any of this shit I could be doing something to make money. I have kids. I have a family you're gonna pay me Yeah, but if I matter if I was looking at my life 360 app because I have my daughter in there keeping hers It's like keeping sav safe in california. She named it. My son was eight And he I still have the same one He named that the that we're tracking each other and it said, pay me motherfucker Mike family. Ha! And now, Escaping the Drift,

the show designed to get you from where you are to where you wanna be. I'm John Gafford and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the drift, and it's time to start right now. Back again, back again for another episode

of Like It Says in the Opening Man, the show to get you from where you are to where you wanna be. Today, people in the studio, I'm talking again, man, again, just baller after baller after baller rolling in here lately. This dude has done something that I appreciate in a way that it's greater because I used to be in this business, man.

And this dude took it so far beyond anything that I would have even thought was possible. It's crazy. He literally has built a billion dollar insurance company. It is a massive team of 37,000 salespeople. He is a key. I mean, the dude's a best selling author. This guy's Mr. Everything. He's got his own unbelievable podcast that blows up everywhere. You've seen him everywhere. Fox News, everything else. Guys, we are so blessed to have in studio today. This is Sean Mike. Sean. How you doing, man? How are you, buddy? Good. I appreciate that. That's very, that's quite an introduction. I feel even better about myself than I walked in Mike. Sean, how you doing man? How are you buddy? Good I appreciate that. That's very, that's quite an introduction. I feel even better about myself than I have ever walked in here. See I'm actually applying for the job. I want to be the warm up dude when you go speak. Tell you what, I just want to get them hyped up like you're already hired. I could be the flavor flav to your Chuck D. Right? Like I come out and jump around like a monkey and you drop the knowledge. You're already hired dude. And that's how we'll do

it. I love that. So let's do, look, for those of you, if you don't know who Sean is, this dude is a beast in the insurance world. When I say beast, I'm talking about King of the Jungle type stuff. But how did you get started? And like, well, I don't wanna go further back than that with you, dude,

because I'm always a big interest of nature versus nurture. So like, what's the background with you? Do you have like that terrible David Goggin story or just what made you, you do you think growing up? Well, first of all, thanks for having me on, man. I appreciate it. I appreciate everything you do and everything right back at you, man.

I see you everywhere. I've heard a lot about you and it's good to meet you in person. So thanks for having me. And I need to preface this with, one of the reasons I want to come on a show is I like real people that tell real stories. There's it's unfortunate with this whole nature versus nurture thing because so many people they fabricate their story. It's not a real story. So I shoot you

straight whenever I have to say it happened. If I say it didn't happen it didn't happen and it makes my life a lot easier. My mother raised me and my brother, my brother's two years younger than me. Um, she got pregnant when she was 17 had my brother who died shortly after birth. I would have had another brother. I'd been the middle child and then had me at 19. My brother at 21, um, all man left. My mom raised us. My mom had a high school education and my mother worked at a hospital plant product kind of like wore hair net worked there. She was a bartender and did all kinds of odd jobs.

Give you an idea how hard my mom worked. I played baseball, basketball, football at high school, football and baseball in college. My mother's never seen me play any sport in her life. Not because she's not a great mother because she worked her freaking ass off. So mine was very much, I was very blessed with what I got to go through. So, so, um, mine was very much, um, I was very blessed with what I got to go through, but my mother, I will tell you, people always ask me, why do people low self image? Everything that I've studied, I went to college, got an undergraduate degree in social work, master in psychology, cause I wanted to play ball. It's the only reason I went to play baseball. And, um, you know, my,

people say to me, what causes low self image? I said, lack of unconditional love and my mother for all the things I had going on in my life all the stupid shit I did all the drugs and alcohol is involved at all the times. I got arrested for doing stupid shit She loved me through it all my mother told me she loved me every mother effing day of my life Truthfully to this day if I called her right now, that'd be the first thing she says so she She she raised me work really hard the first thing she says. So she, she raised me, worked really hard. You know, we lived in, you know, subsidized housing. And I knew that's not where I wanted to be. I knew at a very, very young age, you're talking about your

kids. I knew at a very young age, I want to do a lot more. I knew at a very young age, my brother had no desire to do anymore. We lived in the exact same house, exact same circumstances. So I went to college, played baseball, got a degree, and then, got a degree, and then got myself a job immediately working with abused, neglected children. Well, real quick, I want to go a little bit deeper on what you just talked about. So, you know, having that mom that had to work all the time, right? You guys were kind of left to fend for yourselves. There was a lot of like, okay, dinners on the table or figured

out the can of spaghetti or whatever it is. 100%. And you've got to just have a tremendous amount of resilience growing up in that. And I find that interesting that your resilience has got to be very high, but you said your brother's wasn't. Correct. So what do you think was the disconnect there? That I'd like to have, I'd like to give you a much better answer other than if you choose to be, if you choose to be unsuccessful, you're going to answer other than if you choose to be If you choose to be unsuccessful, you're gonna be unsuccessful if you choose to be cowardly You're gonna be cowardly if you choose to cry and mope and wine and also like I got a faith dude And we there's nowhere in that book anywhere that says to be a coward be a punk be a complainer like nowhere I've read it like I read a lot. Well, I don't understand all of it all the time, it doesn't say

that anywhere. So I think that was the path my brother chose, you know, so I chose to not be what bothered me the most as a kid, to be honest with you, John, by far the most was the way people looked at me. They looked at me based on what we didn't have. And I always knew it because I was, listen, I was in AP classes in high school, I hated my AP classes, because I hated the people in my class. And I'm like, none of y'all play ball at all.

I don't have anything in common. But I realized I really didn't love myself enough. And I felt uncomfortable around them because they had good clothes. They're from good homes. And I just didn't fit in. So I was like, let me get out of these classes. But I knew I wanted something different. And I knew that my brother didn't.

And I knew I wanted. My mother would always always tell me it's like people I say, well, how'd you, why'd you want to be an entrepreneur? My father who wasn't around was a business owner. My father did not work hard. My father made good money. I mean, he lived his life. That was his life. Um, and later in life, I've come to build a relationship with him. Cause after not talking to somebody for 10 plus years, you realize my bro is hurting. You are hurting them.

Like, what does it matter? So I reached out to my old man. We have we have the relationship we have. But I built a lot of resilience to but I never thought of it that way. Like I knew that my mother dated guys and when they would come to the house and I would be 14, 15 years old and they'd be like, where's your mom? She's upstairs. She's a hurry up. Mike, bro, I will fuck you up.

Yeah, like I will fucking smack the shit out of you. You talk like that about my mom again. Yeah. Like and look at me and ask me if you're fucking. Like I was really angry kid. I'm probably still angry to be honest with you. So, I mean, obviously angry at the situation. Very, very defensive, protective. Well, it's just it's interesting because, you mean, obviously angry at the situation, but very, very defensive, protective. Well, it's just, it's just interesting because, you know, you said around the AP classes,

like you didn't fit in, you feel with those people, but yet it, it's sort of deep down, you're aspiring to be those hundred percent. So it's kind of in a weird way. It's a stretch a little bit, but it's kind of almost like the obstacles, the way like, like that modern stoicism take from like Ryan holiday. I mean, what's, Hey, listen, what's the biggest struggle we deal with with our kids? They're never, never going to know those struggles. Yeah. Unfortunately. Well that's for fortunately, but unfortunately your kids are never going to know nor mine.

Well, and that's why it's also interesting that, you know, for so many in the, in those poverty stricken parts of the country, sports is, is the way out. It was the only way out for me. But on the flip side of that now is, is, is a, your kids never knew that struggle. So I'm sure you utilize sports the same way we do in our household as manufactured. I have a sonny a hundred percent. And I think, I think for me, you know, it's funny that, you know, you building this real estate monster and all things you've done.

My mother got a real estate license when I was probably 10. And it was the first thing she'd ever done outside of a job. And I remember my mom, you're talking about 1982. Yeah. But I can remember the dress she was wearing. I can remember being excited. I remember hearing the terminology open house. I didn't know we had to ask my mom. It was very inquisitive.

And I had a neighbor who I don't know if she's still alive, but boy, she was a bitch. And she like would come over and try to beat us up. And she was a brutal, brutal lady. And I remember my mother got a license and she looked at my mom and she said, Carrie, you know that you're never going to be successful at this right in front of us in our little apartment. And my mother was very passive. That's why I think I've also got to the point,

I watched people treat her verbally the way they were never gonna treat me. And my mother quit, gave up her real estate three months into it. Don't even know if she ever made a sale. I don't think she ever made a sale. And I remember feeling so happy for her and then realizing, dude, she's never gonna try

anything ever again. Never. And so I actually got my real estate license when I was like 21 and I got it because of that. Like I really wasn't like I'd have a plan. I was a social worker. I was like, dude, everybody's getting a real estate license, meaning like five guys I knew, but I'm like, why not get it? And then I started buying and selling property when I was 21, land developing, um, multifamily homes. And I, you know, built a pretty good real estate portfolio, which I sold later. But yeah, man, growing up, it really drove me.

Was your mom an absolutist like that? Like, it's like, cause like, dude, I, my, my wife's mother is like an absolutist, like got drunk and threw up when she was 21, never touch alcohol again, got married, got divorced and never dated anybody else ever again. Like just checking off the box, and I've always saw, oh my God, what a terrible way to go through life. I think my mother,

she had a really, really tough upbringing. Yeah. You know, and honestly, in fairness, so did my old man. And I think when you look back on it, you know, I had a guy tell me one day that every son and father go through three phases. First, your son idolizes you. Then he demonizes you. Then he humanizes you. And man, I thought about my son and I coached all the sports.

I was with him every minute of every day. You know, the idolization that and what's weird is I started. You start thinking a lot when you get older and you're like, you know what, man? But my old man was like he was an ass. Well, guess what, bro? There are things that happened to him. He didn't do to me. So as much as I want to demonize him, I realize he's a human being, bro.

So he's just a human. How much joy do you take in the fact that you broke that cycle? Oh, I take it. Do I take a ton of joy in it? I think for me, you know, I've been I've been sober 24 years. I love to drink. I love cocaine a lot more. I love drinking. I love smoking crack a lot. Oh yeah. I'm being, you know, if it didn't involve a needle, I did it. Oh my God. Yeah, man. And,

and I quit actually this past September 24th was my 24th year. Um, who else has a similar story to that? It's just, he's in Florida now too. Well, shit, what's his name? I did rehab clinics in, in Connecticut or in, in New England. Lives in Miami now. Eric, Eric Wolford. Okay. Do you know Eric?

I do not. Okay. Yeah. You guys, you guys got a silver story. You know, so our story, so I, you know, and I think everybody in my family, so that was one of the first ones that broke a graduate from college and all that. And I just, you know, wanted to be, you know, and I think everybody in my family, so that was one of the first ones that broke a graduate from college and all that. And I just, you know, wanted to be, you know, I wanted to, to your point, I wanted to be like those people on some level, but I wanted to have the same chances they had.

And I had to convince myself that I could. And when I got into real estate, I started getting around people and you know, I did really well. And I worked at like, Remax and William Ravis, that's a big New England one. And I did really well. And I was like, working my job. And I'm like, dude, I'm like number one agent. I don't even work here full time.

Like y'all don't work. So I was like, this is such an awesome industry, because y'all don't do anything. The people in my office, I'm like, you just hang out. Like, this is easy. It's easy to beat you guys. And then I was like, I get to compete again. Like I thought I'd be playing baseball till I was 35 years old, getting paid to do it. And I'm like, dude, I get to compete again.

And that's what got my juices falling. So I realized I love to compete. I wanna prove people wrong. I obviously developed a lot of resilience growing up. And also that hasn't left me. I see a lot of folks that go make enough money to live on. Dude, money, I have plenty of money. I'm not trying to be like, I've been very blessed.

Like it's, sometimes I'm like, dude, this makes no sense. Like it makes no sense. Like you want to go eat? Yeah, let's take a yacht to a restaurant. Like it's dumb. Let's fly a private jet. Like it's really stupid, but, and it's surreal, but it's never made me want

to slow down ever. Like I've never been like, nah, I don't feel like doing that today. Like I want to be moving all day long every day because I want to make a difference. I'm going to do things that give me a purpose. Do you, what? Okay. So weird question. Do you think that that it's like you mentioned having issues with alcohol and drugs, whatever, and earlier in your life, many moons ago, that level, cause like I find some people that I know that have issues with that, right?

Some people are addicted to those things because there's a hole in them. They're trying to fill a hole up, right? And then some people are just addicted to it because it's fast and it's fun. Do you find that maybe your addiction level to that stuff is carried over into, and you just changed the addiction into now service? Do you find that maybe your addiction level to that stuff is carried over into and just

changed the addiction into now service? I think my addictive personality never left me. I think I was predisposed to addiction. Everybody in both sides of my family was there was certainly holes in our lives that I think I wanted to fill. But the first time I drank, I loved it. I loved everything. I was probably 10.

First time I smoked weed, I was maybe 12. I loved it. I loved everything. I was probably 10. First time I smoked weed, I was maybe 12. I loved it. Or somebody did coke. I was maybe 14. I loved it. I love the way it made me feel. I love that I could escape life. And it wasn't until the love for me caught up to the damage like I needed the love to avoid those holes, if you will. And then, you know, and again, I did some things like I, you know,

jumping off a hotel's roofs and do stupid stuff, being happy and also realizing that dude, God may not give me this many more chances. Like one of these days I'm just going to die, but yes, I am very honestly addicted to service. Yeah. I love that dude. And here's the thing, man. You never know. I mean, so, so literally over the weekend, over the, in the last week, two friends of mine from my friend

group in Orlando, like when I lived in Orlando, I lived there for a long time and two of my friends passed away this week from that group. And I was talking to my wife, I'm like, that's six people that I would consider. And I'm not old and I'm 52 and that's six people as well. So like you get it. Like you, you, you have certain aids, there's no candlelight vigil anymore. There's no like, you know, they don't like, you know, there's no like special thing. People's like, I mean, my buddy just went to bed Saturday night, didn't wake up. So you just never know how that is. And I love the idea of, of kind of letting go of, of some of those things. And you're never, I don't think you're ever going to replace that addictive personality.

You're never going to place it. You've got to, you got to put it somewhere positive. And I think putting it in that idea of, of your plan to service to others is fascinating to me. And I love that. So you were doing real estate. Let's, let's pick it up there. You're doing well. And then what happened then, man, it's funny cause I'm, you know, 2008, you know, the market did what it did. And people always like, well, did you get out here?

I've never, I don't make excuses for anything. So when two, when everything for those people that watch are too young, like 2008, the world ended and really like it ended. I mean, I had, I had, I had subdivisions. I was selling, I was, I bought the land. I developed land. I put the land, I developed land, I put the road in, I was doing the home construction

and I was selling 2,700 square foot homes for half a million dollars. Post 2008, I was selling the exact same product from 230, 240. But, but guess what dude, there were people that survived it pretty well, right? So I had a lot of rentals, I had at times thousands of units and they're all within 10 minutes of the case.

Okay, so what timeframe is this from 21? So what time started at 21? You're talking about this took me into my 30s. I'm a mass knees, I have a great finally got a great guy played ball with in high school. Because my real estate wasn't passive, it was active. I was the one doing everything. I was the one chasing. And I want to talk about that too, cause we have a lot of real estate people listen to this and the biggest

mistake that realtors make is they stay transactional. They don't realize, you know, for me, I talk about all the time, the transactions is the gas for the engine. It's not the car. And too many people treat it as a car and talk about, so you started selling, you're beating everybody in your office. What was the catalyst? Like how did you start? How did you make the switch to like, okay, I'm going to start maybe being investor, maybe flipping, maybe doing this all the way to everything.

Anybody was doing to make money in real estate that I wasn't, I wanted a piece. So I thought, okay, I just represented John, John spec three homes, I sold them. Why can't I spec the homes? Why did John have to do it? That's weird, so I decided to start doing, start building my new construction. So me and a few guys got involved and built the company.

And for you know what, I'm building 10 houses a month, which pretty decent sized homes, we're doing pretty well. Then I said to myself, why am I buying the land from somebody? I'm gonna just buy a raw piece of land, develop it myself, get a good engineer, good attorney, go into town, do everything on my own,

learn how to do it, sit through the town meetings, learn each town in Connecticut, how it works. Because this is before YouTube, dude. Oh yeah, no, this is self-taught shit. How were you figuring this shit out? That's my question. Sitting in fucking meetings. Dude, I used to go to the town hall in Salem,

Connecticut, before I bought anything and sit in their meetings, planning, zoning, wetlands commission, zoning board of appeals. I wanted to know how it all worked. I took notes. They would literally come over sometimes like, um, are you here? It was public. And I'm like, no, I'm just here to feel like a you do you work because it's so many newspapers like you were in the newspaper. I'm like, no, I'm just want to and I literally was like, okay, there's nine people.

Okay, they don't have a quorum. How does that work over here? Wait a minute. Why is this one attorney representing? Okay, got it. He must be big. He must do okay. He seems to get along with the town planner.

Then I'd be like, let me go talk to the town planner, Steve. So I did all this shit on my own. Okay. Then I was like, okay. So I learned that. And I'm like, okay, looking at the engineering plans. I didn't know how to. So I start reading plans. I had to read plans.

So I started talking to folks and learning. But it was, yeah, man. And it's funny because I joke with these guys all the time. They go on YouTube and learn everything. And I'm like, OK, but you also won't get the YouTube video won't show you everything that happens that I got to pick up in two hours in a meeting. And I'm paying attention because it's

easy to get dumb when you're watching YouTube. It's easy to stop thinking. And you also assume that what you're watching is true. Yeah. Well, I think what's happened with, you know, having the world's collective genius online in consumable videos has done two things a it's done it's taught some people some stuff that isn't true which I agree with they're saying but it also has made people lazy and just like how many people are gonna go do that now nobody watch on YouTube that's why I was so easy for me nobody would do it so I knew things that I thought everybody should know and I'm like then they were coming to me yeah and saying I got a raw piece of land you

helped me develop and I'm thinking did all I've been doing is going to meetings. So you want me and I'm like, sure, but I wouldn't do. And I'm like, my deal was I ain't doing it for free. I don't do shit for free. See early on, I was really excited about, but I've got to a point where like, you know what? If I do any of this shit, I could be doing something to make money.

I have kids, I have a family, you're gonna pay me. Matter of fact, I was looking at my Life360 app because I have my daughter in there keeping hers, it's like keeping Sav safe in California, she named it. My son was eight and I still have the same one he named that we're tracking each other and it said, pay me motherfucker Mike family. He was eight.

And I remember always saying like, Ted I'm gonna be on the phone, I'm like dude I'll do it but you're gonna fucking pay me. And my deal was, so I started getting involved in so many aspects. I started doing really well financially, better than I ever thought I would do. And I loved real estate.

It was really a passion of mine. In post-08, the rentals went through the roof. It was unbelievable. Matter of fact, I probably wouldn't have sold them except I had a company from China reach out through a broker I knew. And I was like, what are they doing here? It's like the casinos.

There's so many people coming from China to work and gamble and the whole deal. And I'm like, all right, what were they? I want to, I'm only gonna sell them as one. I'm not going through what, if the number is big enough and fat enough, I will sell it. And it matter if I got to the point where I almost lost the deal because I had to use his broker because he brought them to me and he's a nice guy, but like God, and I'm like, and it was painful. And at one point he called me late and he's like, Hey, they,

there's permits from like 40 years prior to me owning them. He's like, we're just going to push back on them. And I'm like, dude, how much do they want? He's like 50 grand. I'm like, just pay it, just pay it. Like, what are we doing here? and I'm like, but you realize how people they they they want to die on the wrong hill all the time and I sold those properties when I tell you that Covid I first heard about Covid because it's how long it took me held on to for quite some time. I

sold those in 14 days later. COVID and then two months later in Connecticut, moratorium, don't pay your rent. I had tenants that didn't know that I sold them. Yeah. They would call my guy and be like, Hey, like all excited, like we're not going to pay rent. Dude, I could have bought my product for 30 cents in the dollar. And I didn't.

I was like, you know what, dude? Once that happened with the government, it freaked me out. I was like, dude, they can do some stupid shit. Don't ever underestimate how dumb the government can be. You know what I mean? The U S government is one tool where wars and prints own money, but they can do some stupid shit. So I was like, all right, you know what? So that, but that's, that was my run in, in real estate. And, um, it's so funny that, you know, like the Chinese when they were buying here in those times,

I mean, you see, I had the exact opposite experience, man. Like when 2008 hit, this was, this was ground central for foreclosures. I was the number one, like LPS was the foreclosure house. They were the biggest one, the robo signing cops, right? They were the ones we had for that. I was their number one agent the entire United States. I was going to work with, you know,

fucking board shorts on and flip flops and turn the computer on and there'd be 30 new listings. And then we were just kind of slinging them. But at one point, like I had a bunch of Chinese contacted me about it. And then it was like, it was the way it was still to this day outside of Schneidt, Twain, but one of the wildest experiences I ever had in real estate, which was, it was a bus full of Chinese people. And we would just put them on a giant bus, pull to a house and they wouldn't even go across the threshold. They would literally stick their head in the front door, look left, right.

And go, yep, you buy this one. Yep. You buy this one. Yep. We buy this one. And dude, just, it was crazy. We, we right before my deal was closing, they disputed, they said they did not believe my rent rolls were accurate They said there's just no way because I had a very low Vacancy rate I did not have delinquent tenants and thousands of them and I said, why don't you just ask me how I do it? I'll tell you all and they're like, well the guys like my brother. They don't really said dude do me a favor

I said pick 15 units any 15 you want. 15, give them 24 hour notice. I'll meet the guy myself. I will drive him. You guys pick the 15. We'll go to the places, verify somebody lives there. If they're home, we'll talk to him like, let's just do that. Yeah. So we did it.

They agreed to do it. Not everybody's home. But after about six hours, he's like, OK, what do you do? And I said, well, it's easy all there's 50 guys like me around here I'm one of the biggest but there's 50 of us. There's a few individual people that have a property or 85 to 90 percent of the home the landlords the property owners don't even live in Connecticut. They've retired and moved to Florida At the time I was in my 20s and 30s, they were 70 or 80. So I would say, hey, John, listen, let me ask you something, bro, before I write this to you.

What do you think the chances are that you're going to get in a place where you can't pay your rent? And I mean, ever, John, you'll say probably never. You're awesome. You're never going to fucking prop. Cool. I go, John, let me explain how this works. Me and my property manager, we live within 10 minutes. So if you don't pay rent, we're going to be so fucking

annoying. I mean, like here all the time, knocking on the door, we might walk in cause we might think you're unsafe. We might call 911 and think you're unsafe. Might be parked outside. We're going to text, do we're just a pain in the ass. The rest of these guys, they don't. They won't even know. You'll be four months into not paying rent

before they send you a fucking letter. Me, I know the family relations people. I know the people at the courthouse here. I know everybody down there, dude, path of least resistance. If you think it's going to be a problem ever, dude, just rent from them. They won't even screen you out They'll never meet you and people are like that doesn't work

My dude worked all time if I wasn't gonna pay and he was like, I don't give a shit at all And you were like you do I'm like I'd go with him. Yeah, why would I not that doesn't make any kind of sense? So we we really worked really really hard. You understand my first job 16 well plus to dude when you get somebody to verbalize something like that like like, no, I am never going to not be paying my rent. Right. Like people, dude, it's so for the psychology of that. It's same thing with a tie down in sales, but like people just have this need for people to know, like, and respect them. And they're like, I told this guy, I was going to pay my rent, even though the lease says it, right?

Even though it's assumed you're going to do it. And if you know that you're going to not pay your rent, you're not going to pick me because rent, you're not gonna pick me. Yeah. Because I'm gonna annoy you. Yeah. You're gonna pick the other dude. I mean, guys would actually call me,

this guy named Eddie, he would call me. He'd be like, did you interview someone? So I'm like, did you rent to him? Yeah, I would give them their number sometimes. Dude, this guy's really hit like this guy. Fun calls guy. Like I'm just telling you Basin, you ought to pay him. Because I think that the thing for me was my first job at 16.

This guy just passed away. Outstanding guy was a big mentor. My professional baseball player, uh, Yankees, Rangers, red socks, and huge real estate guy in Connecticut. You're talking about in the early nineties, my first job, like outside of McDonald's grocery store job was going to the job site, meeting these guys, taking a truckload of four by fours, going to people's apartments, screwing the four by fours, two of them to their door. If they were delinquent on rent. I mean, I, you can't do it, shouldn't do

it. It's all awful. But, but think about this. I never forget going like, what are we doing? And I remember that one of the, the ladies, her and her husband, they called the police. And the husband came, the police came out. We're there. And I'm like, dude, are you sure this is legal? Like, I mean, I use coke and shit. And I do dumb shit.

I beat guys up. And they hit me. This seems like what I'm going down for. This is going to be it. What if there's a fire or something? And I'll never forget the cop saying to the guy, did you pay your rent? And he goes, well, he goes, I'm just, sir, I'm just asking.

I'm going to get to remove the four by four. It's a safety hazard. Did you pay your rent? No, I suggest you pay, but it was, but you know, I think for me, what people have to understand is the psychology behind. Most people, I mean, it's cowardly for me not to pay you if I owe you money. Yeah. I'm a coward. is the psychology behind most people. I mean, it's cowardly for me not to pay you if I owe you money.

Yeah. I'm a coward if I do that. If I owe you money and I don't pay you, I'm a coward. Cowards are cowards consistently. Cowards are cowards consistently. Men that beat up women, don't go fight men. No. They're cowards.

So I was like, dude, all we gotta do is ask them enough questions. They're gonna back down. So real estate was really, and we got to do is ask them enough questions They're gonna back down So it was real estate was really you know, and I had a lot of really good tenants and people did you get in trouble? For the for the four dude, I've worked there for like a day because okay, so I'll tell you a funny story so my brother-in-law inherited from his father in North Florida a Trailer park like not a good trailer park like park. And he goes out there the first time and he meets the property manager, Skeeter,

whatever his name was. And he's like, yeah, you know, man. And this was one of those joints where like they had a utility grid that they could turn the power on and off each individual trailer by the week. Kind of like that. And so he goes up there and like the first or second time he went out there, Skeeter's like, man,

yeah, these dudes out trailer too, man. They ain't paid in a while. So we got to get rid of them. And he's like, Hey, get rid of it. And this is true story. I swear to God, he put, he opened the door, he opened the front of the door. They wouldn't answer. So the dude opened it with his key and sent two fucking Rottweilers in the trailer and out the dudes came fumble in the back window, blah, blah. And my brother-in-law standing there like, holy shit, like we can't be like,

this can't be, they're gonna call the cops. And Skeeter looks at my brother-in-law and goes, Mr. John, he goes, man, people rent trailer by the week, they ain't calling the law. Exactly true, but it's true. And he ended up turning the power off on somebody else's trailer.

And he did get arrested for it. So my brother-in-law ended up having to go, what was funny at the time, in front of my dad, it was the judge. Wow, who's the the judge over turning the power off at some trailers. That's why I asked if you got. Trouble is a different world, man. Different world, man. I think it. But listen, I learned a lot.

It was very good to me. I enjoyed it. Like, I enjoy everything about real estate, to be honest with you. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Well, let's get do let's talk about it. Let's shift into insurance, dude, cause that is a business near and dear to my heart. I made a bunch of money in that business early in my career.

So how did you get started there? So I had a guy approach me weirdly enough in 08. I was buying a four family home. He was a real estate broker listing it. And he said, you ever think about, you know, find other ways to make money? I'm like, well, dude, like I have money. I'm not I but I'm but I'm always open. What do you got?

And I assumed it was something real estate related. And he said, You ever heard of mortgage protection? And I said, and I had and I said, and I know it. You mean like selling mortgages? And he's like, no, no mortgage tax and life insurance. And I said, the guy named Jim, I said, no, Jim, I've never heard of it. And he said, well, you get your license. And and I really didn't pay him any mind.

He probably tried to recruit me four times. I didn't really pay him any attention. But the fourth time he came to me with a lead and he had me this this form, his piece of paper and client's name on it to explain the product. They put their name, date of birth, signed it, put like a little code words for me, called them. And I was like, let me see it. So I took the thing and I called it on my cell phone.

And he's like, we don't like this call. Mr. The guy answered. And I'm just like, hey, dude, like you fill this thing out. My name is Sean. I'm getting back to you. Got your information. You wanted some information, more extraction insurance. Do you remember doing that? He's like, no, I said, cool, I have the form your date of birth.

Oh, yeah, I do. I said, cool, I'll be out tomorrow at whatever time. So I hang. Got my license about four or five days. I still had no desire to do anything. I just figured I'd get the license, can't hurt me, but I'll sell myself, sell myself apologies to my buddies, whatever. And so I got my license about five days ago. I was like, I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license.

I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license.

I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. I'm going to get my license. just figured I'd get the license, can't hurt me, but so I'm myself, I sell myself apologies to my buddies, whatever. And so I got my license about four or five days

and about two weeks later on a weekend, I was like, you know what, dude, I'm gonna call some leads this weekend. What was the first contract you were on with him? What was my contract level? With him, 90, 10, seven month advance. What was it? Are you kidding me?

I was at a 55% turn, 38% final expense contract. Oh, but you understand. I know about life insurance and real estate, I'm getting 6% and getting half. Obviously the transactions are a lot bigger, but to me I'm like, you know what, dude, I got my license and I didn't even ask actually at first.

I was like, cause I was just so, so new to the business. Funny you asked that because I worked at that company for five years. On that split? No, I moved to 110, which still was okay. 110 mortgage. Were you taking the seven month advance or no? Ten month advance.

Ten month advance. Yep. And what happened at that company, it was, I was at my fifth year, my annual convention. And I've always struggled with recognitions, not important to me. That doesn't make me right. And recognitions really like the parking space out there. Number one agent, I'd want it. But if it was that over money, give me the money. Yeah. If you're like, dude, we want my, I'll take the money and I'll park. You didn't see a parking space out there with my name. I know. I know. I saw that.

So my car parked exactly. I don't. But but I really struggle with that. So I was at an event and the the guy that owned the company said, hey, man, you're our number one income producer for the year. And I'm like, I've been the one income producer for three years. And I've been here five. And he said, yeah, but I need you to do me a favor. I I want you to talk about top line income and gross.

And I said, well, I do. I talk about top line and bottom line and expenses. And that's what I'm always going to do. He's like, I know, but you, you're oversharing. And I said, well, it's my information. I'm confused now that my peers would get up there and go, I made 740,000 dollars a share. I'm like, dude, he netted 80 grand.

Yeah. Like he didn't. So I said, and I remember him really pushing back nicely to me, but he was just like, I really just wish you would. And I got up on, I said, dude, either I don't have to get on stage. It's not that big a deal to me, but I'm knocking up a lot of the people because if I'm going to serve Mike, I'm going to lie to him. And then it hit me dude I'm making that year I made 1.4 million gross. Dude I didn't make 200 grand. I didn't make 200,000 dollars. I didn't. The fees, it was crazy. So I decided to launch my own company. After five years being one of their top people I barely broke 200 G's in that business. Right. Yeah but you'd be shocked. Well, hang on a second. So your expense, were they providing you leads

or were you generating your own leads? I was buying leads. I was paying lead over. I'd every time a guy in my organization bought a lead, I had to pay for it. I had monthly fees, weekly fees, training fees. Just getting zapped. Anything they could get me on, they got me on.

And the reality was that I already had already had money like I was broke. I was making money and I enjoyed doing what I was doing. So I decided it's funny because even then I'm like, you know what, man, this isn't going well. I flew down to the corporate office, met with the owner of the company. I said, here's the deal. Cut me a new deal. I'm by far number one guy. I ain't hurt nobody. Cut me a new deal so I can pay my guys more because I want my guys to make more money

too. Yeah, sure. I want to get a better deal. I want to make more money. I know how to structure it. So I know how to do this. I can show you the grid. I know how you break the comp down and what the bonuses look like. I like I know what I'm doing. Help me cut a deal for my agency. We're the biggest. And in person, he was like, Yep, sounds good, sounds good, sounds good. And about a day later he calls me with like, I call it liquid courage.

Every drunk guy wants to, he's ready to fight until you punch him in the face. And he's all drunk and he's like, don't ever ask me that stuff again. I'm never gonna do that. And I made a decision to quit. So December 12th of 2013 was the day I quit. Launched Family First Life. And people say, what was your goal?

Did I just wanted to have a better situation? But I didn't think we'd have 30,000 agents. I didn't think we'd do a billion a year. I just was, I was just excited to be, I mean, most people in our space don't even think about doing 50 million a year. There's guys that have huge podcasts, huge presence. They can't do 60 million a year. It doesn't make them bad people. It's just like they don't know how to do it. So we built something that really took off and it's been great in one hell of a ride and you know It's funny. I was at I was on a plane the other day the guy walks down the aisle He's like rogue IMO and I'm like what he's I used to run ads that were called the rogue I'm are you an insurance because I'm not even in insurance

I don't know what the rogue IMO means, but I couldn't get out of my mind So we have talking later was like the baggage claim and he's like dude. What was that all about? I'm like we just want everybody know we were doing later, I was waiting at the baggage claim, and he's like, dude, what was it all about? I'm like, we just wanted everybody to know we were doing something different. When you started, and then you're starting in an established industry, if you ain't got a difference, you ain't got an edge,

you ain't got a better value, you're probably screwed. So. It's so funny, man. It's like, in some of the businesses we're in, we compete against the behemoths, you know, we're out there. And, you know, we're competing for talent, or talking to people. It's like, in those interviews, I'm always like,

look, you can go work on a cruise ship. It takes really slow to do it, you know, really slow to get anywhere, really slow to turn, really slow to do that. Or you can come jump on the pirate ship with me. We are fast and nimble and we love to take shots at the cruise ship. And we will take, we will steal from them.

And it's that same idea, I love that. Because you need, I think, to have a good startup, you need people that want to be on that part of the set. And also do I sold? I think, you know, you, one of the reasons you've probably been really successful is dude, you sold. We do. I think it's hard for men and women that want to launch something and be the

sales manager leader. It's all it's hard due cause they don't know what you're going through. They don't know what it's like to drive three hours to listen to appointment. They don't know what it's like to go to somebody's house and get porched where you're going to meet with them, sell life insurance and they're inside going like and it's funny. So I started I would do stuff that people thought was crazy. I got to go to your house and we had an appointment. I knocked on the door. I could hear you and your wife inside and I'm like, we booked an appointment. I bought your lead. So I would just text you and I'd be like,, hey John, listen, Sean, Mike,

I'm here for our appointment, I can hear y'all inside. I'm gonna call 911, I'm obviously concerned for your safety. And I would do that, I'm like, I'm concerned for your safety, I don't know if it's a home invasion or something happened, but I can hear y'all, I'm assuming you're in danger, and they would open the door. And somebody would be like, dude, what did you do?

I'm like, I got in the house, I sold my life insurance. Like, what are you talking about? But also part of me was like, if you don't respect your dude, what did you do? I'm like, I got in the house, I sold them life insurance. Like, what are you talking about? But also part of me was like, if you don't respect your time, why would anybody else? And I ain't wasting my time, bro. No, people will treat you exactly the way you want to. Exactly the way you let them do it. So you started out this in how many ages?

So, I mean, how did you start? Walk me through the evolution of this business. So in most businesses like yours, there's gotta be a lead source. So did you establish? What? Tell me, walk me through the evolution of this business. So in most businesses like yours, there's got to be a lead source. So did you establish a lead source first? Did you vertically, how quickly did you vertically integrate lead source? Because I'm assuming you have got to be vertically integrated. So here's, here's the funny thing. It's interesting story we did when we started.

So we, we, we had our own mail warehouse that we worked with that I had to deal with that guy. And it was pretty much our mail warehouse as leads evolve YouTube, IVR, all the stuff we did in social media. We did a lot of it. And then probably three years ago, it got to a point where I was like, wait a minute, I can teach you how to do the leads. I can show you how to do it. We pay you better comp anyway.

We got crazy good bonuses. A little bit of a lot becomes a lot of money. We're doing great. You know what, wherever you buy the leads from, you can buy them from. Matter of fact, we just wanted, because for us, to manage, there's, the lead gen business has changed so much, you understand?

100% of what I did when I started was direct mail. Yeah, it's all now. That's all it was. And now with what we do, I mean, it's social media. It's where everything's in the lead. The acquisition is cheaper, the quality is really good, and then post COVID, it's all virtual. You understand, we were 198% face to face.

So you're doing, it's all Zoom now? 98% Zoom. We went literally. So these guys are getting on the phone, getting on zoom from their house, from an office, how many days a week, how many hours a week. But we literally when COVID hit, I remember people like, what are you going to do? Well, we kept running appointments. We would bring our lawn chairs sick because people would say to me, what are you doing? I'm like, dude, I don't know. We have to be whatever the social distancing. How close are you to your clients anyway?

Like I sit down and talk to them. What do you do with your clients? Like I don't get that close to them. We're not snuggling on the couch. Like winning a set on my lap. Like they're there, I'm here. We're getting them insurance. So it, but yeah, so now it's funny.

We did integrate all that. We do have a great platform and it's funny. You talk about the tech, give you an idea of startups. We had a, man, we were so deficient technologically by the time we were three years in because we didn't anticipate having thousands and thousands of agents. So I remember when I was looking at the infrastructure

and had a guy come in and do a whole deal. And it's funny, one of the guys that works in my office that manages it said, what do you think is the cost? I said, a couple million and come back and I'm like, it's like seven million you know what I mean and it's funny because What people don't know about scale and we've always been really aggressive like your pirate ship analogy You know we throw it in we're you know, I was already making some money other places first couple years, dude I wouldn't take any money out of the company. Yeah, we were killing it

But I was like dude, I'm good and I never out of the company. We were killing it, but I was like, dude, I'm good. And I never needed to. So the guys that were trying to compete with me, they needed to make so much money and keep so much money. And I didn't, you know. Did you have a scaling plan? Like do you use EOS? Are you running anything like that in your business? You know, if I told you that that was my compass compass I'd be lying to you. I mean I understand them We've looked at them. Here's what we had we had this idea that if we believe we had the best value proposition America, which I still believe that we do and Nobody can prove me. Otherwise, we're by far the biggest so I in our space So I say okay if we do that and we can leverage social media build people's self images up and teach them be leaders

And then we can start social media, build people's self-images up and teach them to be leaders, and then we can start, instead of being so focused on, here's your sales training's great, we have everything put together, but what if we took every agent and said, we need to get you to 25,000 legitimate followers? Like, what if we leverage social media like nobody ever has? And then we just started recruiting everybody

to the point where like get online at night. If they're in the business, if they're not in the business, ask them if they want to make more money, they make more money here. That seems pretty simple. That's it. That's it. And we're going to treat them great. We're not going to micromanage them. Those that can't manage micromanage and we're by far the biggest. So for by far the biggest, it has to be working. Cause we do the most volume. Well, let's go backwards. Cause obviously once you become the biggest or you get size of your company, it almost becomes like a vacuum and you create, the biggest has to be working. Can we do the most volume? Well, let's go backwards. Because obviously once you become the biggest or you get size of your company,

it almost becomes like a vacuum and you create and just create gravity to your company. What was the hardest thing about getting the first 10 to commit? Oh, early on recruiting? Yeah, the first 10. You're in office, I'm open, I'm gonna get my first 10. And I'm not talking about the 10 you already knew

that followed you from the company. I'm talking about the real first 10. And I'm not talking about the 10 you already knew that followed you from the company. I'm talking about the real first 10. The funny thing was it was hard because there was no proof of concept. So it was hard because what people would ask is, hey man, like, how do you know it's gonna work? Because you just started. And my deal was, I was like, I don't know if it will.

And they would, I'm like, I don't. Here's what I do know though., we're going to be the biggest IMO you've ever seen in life or we go down a ball of flames. Either way, it's going to be a lot of fun. I ain't going to hurt you. I'm not going to lie to you and shit. You'll probably make more money than I'm going to make early on.

But that's what we're going to do. But if you want me to look you in the eyes, John, tell you I'm 100% sure we're going to succeed. I'm not 100% sure. I will not quit. 100% sure I won't quit. 100% sure I won't back down. 100% sure I'll give everything I got.

And I ain't no punk. But am I 100% sure it's gonna work? No. Are you know you're out and there also reality was what are you committing to? My ideas? What are you committing to? Yeah, like, let's just say let's just say my downside is people would say to me you're you give away too much comp early on and be like, okay, and I used to tell everybody like I go to these meetings and my competitors would be there and I'm like dude don't let me make it three years make it three years you're all fucked you're so fucked now we do this during the meeting I'm like you're so fucked if I make it three years you're fucked because I give away so much to come but if a little bit of a lot becomes like a Home Depot situation and you're Smith's Hardware and you keep too much money don't let me get there I'm like so you all better get together and take me out within three years all y'all fucked and I would say it's all time so I I like talking shit. It's my favorite part.

Was there, was there a collective effort to fuck you? Oh hell yeah. They all hate me. Which drove me even more. Yeah. You know, I was like, dude, all of you together, I don't worry about.

Dude, it's, it's so funny because people don't realize when, when you, especially when you're in a business like, like insurance or real estate, any, any service business where there's some large players, like when you make that transition in anything through vertical integration or whatever, from customer to competitor, bro, it is like, it's like some days we wake up and it's like,

fuck, I feel like I'm North Korea. I know. But dude, what's weird for me is I don't know what I would do without that. Yeah. I need that. I love it. I need it. And you know, it's funny because I was reading,

have you read the, I mean, it's 38 letters John D. Rockefeller wrote to his son. It's a great book. And one of the letters is about that. He's talking about the railways and, and, and gold and all the things they were doing back in the day. And he was just elaborating on how awesome that part of the deal is, knowing that everybody's coming at you because you want to be the biggest. And, uh, I think, you know, it's funny, it's hard to explain it sometime to your kids. It's like, dude, well I don't take it personally. Like, well they say this about you. I'm like, dude, people are always going to say shit about you.

Well, it's like, I was telling my kids, I was telling my kids, it's like, it doesn't matter if we're talking good or talking bad. It's when they stopped talking. You got a true statement. And I think that, you know, back to what you said about the letters from John D. Rockefeller son. I mean, I think that you know back to what you said about the letters from John D Rockefeller son, I mean I think if you got kids There's a series called the men who built America on discovery like that should be that should be in school No, like that should be playing in schools. I don't care if my kids it's amazing the stuff those guys did Yeah, those are the real heroes. Yeah, I was guys were savages

Unbelievable stuff like JP Morgan's and those guys do that. And that's you, dude. I mean, that's, dude, to get to 30, I don't think people can understand the scope of 37,000 independent real estate agents because like it's just, it's insane because when you think about like the difference between like what I do here in our company, like we have 585 agents and that's a shit load of people.

Right? But like we have this place where they come to work every day. Like you have 37,000 independent people that wake up and all of them don't do this, but a large percentage of them do with your sales are self-motivated to get up and perform the jobs and tasks they have. And I can appreciate that

because one of my favorite stories and I tell people all the time is when I have. And I can appreciate that. Cause one of my favorite stories I tell people all the time is when I have my insurance agency, right? Like my number one sales guy in Tampa was fucking killing it. He's crushing it. And all of a sudden he started blowing the leads off, started going to play golf too much,

started doing this. And as CEO of the company, you gotta fire that guy, right? The problem was that guy was me cause I was the CEO and the sales guy. So I had to say like, shit I gotta get some middle management in my life, which became my phone. And ever since then,

if it goes in my phone, that's just it. I don't care what happens. If it's in the phone, that shit is gonna happen, which is crazy. So the fact that you got that many people performing at that level is amazing. How do you build culture in a remote work world? Man, you know, it's funny,

pre-COVID I had an idea to get to, culture in a remote work world. Man, you know, it's funny pre COVID. I had an idea to get to, or I wanted to go to, I wanted to add 400 offices at a 12 month period, 400 across the country, Rick and Mortar offices. Dude, I'm I blow by 400 and then COVID hits. And I mean, I had, I had guaranteed leases everywhere. I had, you know, know forty thousand square feet in Atlanta 52,000 in Salt Lake City it was and I remember people coming to me and going you know, what are we gonna do and people are gonna come back to the office and I did and

the one of my best gifts is I Don't get rattled ever. Never. I've lost a bunch of money. I made a bunch of money. I'm doing the best that I can. I'm going to get great information. I'm going to be around people that can help, but I'm not going to crumble.

So, like, you know, we had to really it's a great question, John, because we really had to build a virtual culture. So we had to take the structure that was in the offices best we could, because short-term goals and structure will give people a sense of urgency. And I'm like, okay, how do we get the, how do we get structure? So we started doing things that were structured,

to your point, I'm like, okay, every day, every whatever, Thursday at this time, I'm doing this for this group of people. Every Friday, I'm doing this for this group of people. And then what I started doing is I started traveling and get other people to travel to people and doing a pull together event. So, okay, you don't have the office, cool, got it. All right, yeah, we're doing an annual convention once a year.

You know what, let's start doing, say came up with this terminology, lock-ins. So they would get an Airbnb or a few of them in a city. 40 agents would fly in there, stay together for four days. They would do it like every three months. So you built that culture. I love that. Face to face in a lock-in.

And then it's like, hey, man, we can play. Zero overhead expense other than a small rental. Correct. Fuck. And now it's like you get some paid sense of food, you're dialing all day long, everybody's got their phone. you got an Airbnb, it's got horseshoes, volleyball, you play around a little bit, take them to Topgolf, everybody goes home. But it gave them that camaraderie.

And then off of that, what they did was Zoom dial. So it was like, okay, dude, you did office means, right? Why don't we just do this shit on Zoom? When do you dial? Here are the days I dial. Good, do it all on Zoom. Yeah. You know, why I got to, they're going to get off the video.

And I'm like, hey, they're independent contractors. And that was the other thing, teaching people, stop trying to treat people that are independent contractors like they're your employees. Yeah. They're not your employees. And just cause you had an office and they came in, they're now at home.

If they decide to dial four hours a day, two hours a day, recruit more people. The answer is always new blood. Yeah. So stop beating them down for what you're not doing. And good self-assessment on your part where you're like, hey dude, like I was just not as engaged. So it kind of starts moving sideways. Yeah. So are you engaged, bro? So we have a lot of support virtually. And what's happening now, I'd say over the last probably six months, now we have people all in offices again, because a lot of the people themselves miss the culture. They miss it. And I'm like, dude, I'm not, you guys

want to do it. I'm going to IDA grand opening in Tampa last week. I'm going to Denver next week, Kentucky the week after that. So I'll fly in. I'm going to speak to an hour, get them all fired up, see their new office, but it's their office and they decide to have it because they want to be in person. Yeah. So when you're looking at a market that wants an office, do you get like letters of commitment for office rental space? You just provide it. I mean, are you subbing it?

What are you doing? Pre-COVID? Oh dude, I was, it was the wild, wild west. And I, and it was, we were growing so much. I'm like, okay, you know what? That's going to run me 35 a month. Cool. How many agents? Yeah, it was easy.

I'm like, we have 12 offices. I couldn't, I couldn't even keep up. We had too many people. So I'm like, okay, you know what? That's going to charge, I'll get three grand a month. There'm like, we have 12 offices. I couldn't I couldn't even keep up. We had too many people. Yeah. So I'm like, Okay, you know what, that's gonna charge you three grand a month. There's 36 covers the whole deal. Boom, it's triple. Now, here's how we get it. Boom. I said, I don't want to make any money, but I don't want to lose any money either. Like, I don't care about making money. So we didn't even have

to now post COVID. Yeah, my dude, you better get all this stuff. And we've gotten people to take a breath. I didn't need some of the space I have is like, Oh my God, like we didn't need it. It's great. It's got a gym, a cafeteria, penthouse bar up top. That's outstanding. So now it's like, how much does that cost you? Don't commit. We don't do long-term leases because you don't know what's going to happen with the business. So these guys will call me and I'll be like, dude, you can find

something. You don't need to sign a five. You don't need to do that. Like take a breath, relax. That's, that's always been the philosophy we've kind of had here, which is like, I treat our office spaces for our company like a restaurant, right? Which means I'd rather be the dude where it's impossible to get a table because I don't have any open offices than the dude just looking around at a bunch of empty offices like I hope somebody comes in. Ours are guys are hanging off the walls.

Yeah, dude. Which is good. Yeah, it's like I want 140 people there when it only holds 112. We're squeezing in best we can is always my philosophy to I want to go back because you said, I don't ever get rattled. And I love that because I can see the passion around you said that right? Walk me through, walk me through your process when adversity strikes. I get excited. Because that means they had to compete

because adversity, it might be a person that might be a situation that might be an had to compete because adversity it might be a person it might be a situation it might be an entity outside of us it might be me right so I think that that it inspires me and motivates me number one and I'm a perspective guy so I'm thankful that I had that adversity I'm every day legitimately I'm like I could be in a month and I know that it's so It's so easy to say well. That's a simple problem. I get it Sean It's like a but why don't you live it getting it and living it are two different things And I also realize that the people around me for the most part don't love adversity You know like in for me. You know it's funny

I was at my house at gym upstairs down the hall That's about four months of my daughter's home from college and she's like, hey, there's a guy at the front door knocking and I said, what's it look like? She told me. And I go, she goes, you got his hands behind his back. I said, oh, he's a process server, he's gonna serve me something.

So I go downstairs and I'm like, I opened the door. He's like, oh, I said, just give it to me, don't be weird. He fucking gave it to me, it's awkward. So he does and I shut the door and I put him with it. And she goes, what is it? And I said, I'm gonna sue for something. And she's like, what do you do? And I said, what do you mean?

She goes, do you care? I mean, she's my daughter's 22 years old at the time. And I go, do I care in what way? What do you mean? And she goes, well, don't you wanna like go through it and figure it out? I said, no, I have an attorney that does that. And later that night she goes, you don't really care, huh? And I said, no, I have an attorney that does that. Yeah, it's his job. And and later that night she goes, you don't really care, huh?

And I said, Savannah, if there's something that happened, you and your brother, I care. But in business, I ain't getting rattled. You guys, hell, if you know, my daughter had a moth flying her ear one night, I thought she had God knows what in their shoes screaming, dude, I was losing my God bless him, I'm driving her 12 minutes because she was a little kid. You know what I mean? Watching my son throw a baseball

and watching his arm break at 14, 15 was awful. That rattled me. Yeah. Business, us competing. You taking a shot at me? Bring it. Like now I'm alive, bro. Like, yeah, you picked the right guy, let's go.

And I think for me, I get excited and I also know that the calmer I can be the more productive the people around me can be and also I want the adversity meaning yeah I coached my son's ball sports baseball basketball football and I one of his buddies who works with with me in insurance makes 300 grand a year 21 years old 20 years old and I said what was the greatest thing I talked about basketball now John when I tell you that I am NOT What was the greatest thing I talked about basketball? Now, John, when I tell you that I'm not a good basketball player, did I play in

high school? This has an athlete, I fucking hate basketball, don't make any sense to me. I like tackling people. I like hitting shit. I don't I'm just not my game, bro. Yeah, you know, and I don't know a lot about it. Like, nobody was asking me what played around the end of game in high school. I knew was screen from my buddy, Mike. Get a fucking rebound. And my coach would say, don't shoot my basketball, meaning I had to give it somebody that could shoot.

Yeah. Like I understood that concept. So I remember I was asked him on a podcast. So what's the greatest thing I taught you about basketball? And he got real quiet. I go, dude, do I know anything about basketball? Like you all played in college. You all play over places like no, not really. I said, cool. Thank you. I don't know anything.

What did I teach you? He said, I said the greatest thing you taught me was to not be afraid of anything Like ever and I wanted people to be mad at me the adversity the adversity strikes me. That means they ain't striking y'all I'd rather have it be me. So if I walk in the gym and I talk shit to everybody they're mad at me Not my players. Yeah, and then if something has my players I make more of a scene myself They're mad at me and I want them to be mad at me. How do you deal with somebody when they let you down? I You used to really bother me. I used to take it personally I used to get hurt for them

I'd get angry if I poured into them and I never believed no good deed goes unpunished But that's probably one of the truest statements ever heard of my entire life so I've done a lot of really good things with you I didn't have to do and they still let me down and went out of the way to let me down. And I realized that everybody, Hey, I learned grace. Everybody goes through shit. They didn't want to let me down. I hedge my bets more.

I'm really cautious, meaning like I'm not that far out anyway. You let me down. It really didn't hurt me. It takes me a long time to trust. Yeah. Long time to trust. You know, it's funny in the book Beyond Entrepreneurship, they were talking about,

there's a chapter where they talk about people are either really trusting or really untrusting. And it's just kind of a choice that you make. And the guy's mentor was like, look, yeah, I've been burned, but I just choose to see the best in people until they let me down. And he goes, when people don't let me down, and I thought this was so interesting. And obviously that's why I asked you this question because he says, you know

It's either a crisis of character or crisis of incompetence Yeah If it's incompetence I have to ask myself is this something that I can teach this person to do or do they have that the aptitude to do it or if they just you know, whatever I need them to do just outgrown their seat or Is this something that they just did this because they have bad character and that's kind of the hardest thing to judge people. So how good of a judge of character on you is it something you you you go through experience or how much of its gut? I think a lot of its gut.

I mean my experience just because I have the experience you're a different human being. Your circumstances are different. I look at people's surroundings like who they're with Relationship wise who they spend time with I try to gauge some of that before I get to too far in But also that crisis a character may be Situational I have some really good people that did some really stupid shit and really bad situations I have guys that did some really stupid shit let people down because. I have guys that did some really stupid shit, let people down because they were drinking too much. They're in a bad relationship. They were depressed.

It doesn't mean that it's an excuse, but it was a situational character issue. Yeah. And it doesn't mean that's an interesting take that character can be seasonal a hundred percent. But if, I mean, and also it's not my job to judge, you know, the two of the greatest things I got, I got a lot is that I don be seasonal. 100%. But if, I mean, and also it's not my job to judge. You know, two of the greatest things I got, I got a lot is that I don't drink. So I'm sober.

So everything, everything. And I do have a really healthy fear of the Lord. And dude, that book tells me not to, I can't judge nobody. So the minute I start finding myself doing it, I'm like, dude, they're a human being like you, bro. Like, relax, like like who are you? Like you got to make decisions stand up for your family protect people I get all that but also at the end of day

I've had some people that Nobody's believed in them and I think we have a lot of you know people that work with us That people have given up on but I'll tell you what dude You take somebody that people have given up on and you believe in that guy and all of a sudden he starts to have success and he's had some dysfunction in his life and he has a resilience that you talked about earlier. Do be careful. That was what I knew about the people we recruited, man.

We a lot of really good people. It didn't mean that my first ad was now hiring athletic or military experience required my first life insurance ad I ran. People would call me up and be like, hey man, I'm in, I played ball at NC State. What's the job? I'm like, dude, you're gonna be perfect. Come down tomorrow morning, we'll talk about it.

We'd be a half an hour into it, they wouldn't even know what we do, they'd be fired up. Somebody's gonna say, get up in the league and be like, hey, what do we do again? They just want to be around me and I liked them. Yeah, I love that. I love that hiring with core competency, not a skill set. I love that, which is good. When you look for people, like, again, I'm going

to take that a little deeper. How do you know somebody's going to make, I mean, what's your hit rate on people? Because as much as I wish I could say my was a hundred percent, it never is. No, I know kind of what I'm trying to do. But I, I, as an independent contractor, the one thing I will, the biggest thing, thing I'm rabid about is accountability. I'm rabid about accountability. If I go, hey man, tell me about why you're here. Well, I was working at this other company

and they suck, blah, blah, blah. Well, somebody made money there. I always go, well, somebody made money there. Why did they make money and you didn't? And I just get quiet. I'm just like, and I'm waiting. And if you go, yeah, you know what, Sean, I could've, no, just the place sucked,

or this happened or that happened. I'll nicely go, Hey, let me ask something John if you don't mind Do you ever take responsibility for anything or do you blame everybody always? I've got a really good asking questions people want to ask and I don't ask them to be a prick I asked once I want the information Yeah, and a lot of times and if they're uncomfortable said, you know why I'm asking those questions because I genuinely care It'd be easy not to ask those questions You just move on and dismiss you and tell you get contracted and never

talked to you ever again. But I want to know why you think that way. And I want you to get better and I want you to get better because I care about you. I don't even barely know you, but people cared about me when I didn't care about myself. I'm not trying to psychoanalyze him,

just saying like at some point, dude, this is you, bro. Everywhere you go, you're there. So let's let's talk about that. Now, a lot of times people self, you know, it's kind of like I was talking about with tenants. I have a lot of people that just are like, dude, I'm not going to like this guy is like serious about being successful.

He's kind of a pain in the ass. And he's asked me a lot of questions and I'm not I'm not down. People like this is too much for me. I'm like, OK, yeah, I'm like, hey, good to meet you. Oh, man, if I'm you know, people always ask me, if you hire 10 people, how many of them are successful? I you know, listen, I think for me, I hired people based on what I thought they could become and who they knew.

And I didn't pretend otherwise. I'm like, dude, I'm hiring you because of what I think you can become here. But also, you know, people and I'm not going to lie to you. A lot of the great guys and girls I have, I didn't hire them directly. I hired somebody who hired somebody who hired them. The dude that hired me quit a month after he got in that, which is stupid, he shouldn't have.

And the guy that hired him quit like a month later. Matter of fact, when I launched my company, this guy, Jim, who hired me, called me, he was like, man, it's going pretty good, huh? I'm like, oh dude, we're killing it. He's like, I never should have quit. I was like, dude, you're overriding me, you dumbass. Yeah, all you gotta do is just stay around.

Yeah, just keep your business card. Just keep your business card, bro. Keep your phone on. I was doing the rest, dude. Just do that CE and keep that license alive. That's all you had to do. I know. Dude, you mentioned earlier,

you had a BA in psychology, right? And so many of your answers today with how you deal with people and how you do things are so very well thought out in the way that you approach people's emotions first and touch them in a way to get them to perform. How much of that is utilizing the education you got through that psychology degree and how much of it is just, you think is just having that touch with people?

I think I have that touch with people because I want to. I think it's I'm genuinely interested in people and why they are the way they are and what they're trying to accomplish and why they are the way they are and what they're trying to accomplish and who they're trying to be. I'm also really transparent in who I am. Like I don't pretend that I'm not fucked up, but then again, we all are.

And I think that's the struggle for people. I think once people realize there's a level playing field, just cause that guy might know this and you don't, and she might know this, we're all still just trying to get through day by day, man. Some days are better than others. I think everybody deals with the same stuff. It's just different doses and different times, right?

I think, you know, listen, college, honestly, for me was good, as much as people like, I did learn a lot about sociological theory, I did. I learned a lot about the DSM-IV and diagnoses, and I got a master's degree, so I did learn some stuff. So I'm not gonna minimize that. But I can tell you that it was putting it to use. So I heard the same stuff my peers heard in school.

Then I was like, cool, I'm gonna go put it to use and see if it works. But I think a lot of it's experiential. I think the foundation was good for me, but then I took it to a different level and was like, all right, dude, let me go figure these things out and always be bold. I always tell myself default to aggressive.

Like whatever's happened, just default to aggressive. Be intellectual about it, be intentional, but let's default to aggressive. All right, well, let's last question then. You've got one avenue, one skillset, one anything, one thing, one thing that you would advise people to perfect, to study, to get good at for success in overall life. What is that one thing that you would advise people to perfect to study, to get good at for success and overall life.

What is that one thing? And that's a great question. I think your ability to explain and market yourself in 30 or 45 seconds, your ability to sell who you are, whether it's to a client, whether it's to a lender, whether it's to a peer, whether it's to a recruit, whether it's to a peer, whether it's to a recruit, a lot of people don't develop that communication style. Start with you, why should I work with you?

What is it about you? What do you bring to the table? What are your strengths, your weaknesses? So I'd perfect your communication as it pertains to you as a business person, because that's all sales is. You're gonna communicate who you are. I come in here, you do your thing,

you're very, very intentional about it. And I gotta give you number two, learn from people. Watch what they do. If I come in here and your sign out front says, welcome to Sean Mike and it makes me feel good, why would I not do that? It makes me feel good. So if it makes me feel good, I'm like,

shit, that made me feel good. Why, that's not like, but people just are so into themselves. I'm like, what can I learn from you? I come, I wanna be in your show. I wanna know you, that's great. I'm happy about that. But I'm also like, what can I pick up

in the short period of time I'm here? Yeah. You know, so you gotta keep your ears and your eyes open. But you've got, if you can't market or sell you, you can't market or sell anything. If you can't sell you, who the hell wants to join you? Yeah. Well, brother, man, if you didn't get anything out of that,

something's wrong with you. I'm just kidding, tell you real quick. If they want to find you, Sean, how do they find you? Instagram's easy, man. My last name is M-E-A-I-K-E, Sean Mike, S-H-A-W-N. Everything's in my name, website. We got the Pick Money, the podcast. We wrote a book called Punch Me in the Face.

I do stuff all over the country. And I'm not hard to find me going to IG. Do you want to hit me up, send me a message and I'll get back to you. I, you know, I, uh, I enjoy trying. I enjoy what I'm doing. I love that, man. I love that. Look, if you're out there and you're drifting along, I mean, this is a dude

that, I mean, if you think about it, this started 2013, that is not a long time. That is 11 a long time. That is 11 years. And the fact that they've been able to achieve what they've done in that time, really just by having a higher expectation of what's possible. All those competitors are trying to do 50 million.

This dude goes, sends out to set a billion dollar company and blows by everybody. There's no reason he can't do the same thing. We'll see you next week. What's up everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show you can always go over to escapingthedrift.com. You can join our mailing list but do me a favor if you wouldn't mind throw up that

five star review give us a share do something man we're here for you hopefully you'll be here for us but anyway in the meantime we will see you at the next episode.