Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - From Broadway to the Bad Ass| Escaping the Drift with John Gafford | Episode 88 Jen Gottlieb

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

Description: Picture this: a young girl, passionate about performing, but struggling with academics and self-confidence. That girl is Jen Gottlieb, who went on to become a Broadway performer, appeared on television for 14 years, and is now striving to be the world's leading motivational speaker. From small stages in her living room, to the bright lights of Broadway, and now onto the platforms of personal development, Jen’s journey is an inspiring testament to the power of perseverance and self-belief.Jen candidly shares her experiences, from the insecurities she grappled with following her parents' divorce, to her determination in transitioning from a lack of grit to becoming a dedicated student of personal development. We explore her impressive evolution from a gym janitor to a successful entrepreneur, and how she managed to rebuild her life after hitting rock bottom. Jen's story is an incredible example of how to rise above adversity, with her resilience and dedication serving as an inspiration for all.Jen Gottlieb, with her unique insight and wisdom, guides us on how to position ourselves as experts in our fields. She discusses the significance of observing successful people and understanding their strategies. Jen also emphasizes the importance of honesty in sharing our journeys and respecting others. She reminds us to avoid comparing our beginnings to someone else's successes, and that confidence and grit can indeed be achieved. Join us in this episode as Jen enlightens us on how to reconnect with our true selves and take the first, often daunting, step towards success.(00:04) From Broadway to Motivational Speaker(04:10) Finding Identity and Approval Through Performance(06:47) Importance of Self-Commitment and Confidence(09:50) Building Grit and Commitment(13:13) TV Show to Personal Training Business(16:22) Gym Janitor to Successful Entrepreneur(21:21) Observing Successful Entrepreneurs and Speakers(25:27) Positioning Yourself as an Expert(36:21) Reconnect With True Self, Take Action(42:20) Manifesting Success Through Action and Persistence(49:10) Building a Brand(53:30) Building Your Network and Networking Advice(01:02:44) Dan's Superhero Abilities & Podcast PromoAbout the Show:➡️ Learn and burn Entrepreneurship from serial entrepreneur John Gafford On his podcast Escaping the Drift, he discusses all sorts of topics, including what made him successful and some of his core tenants for living life and managing successful businesses. ➡️ He is joined by world class guests who share their expertise to help you level up! Escaping the Drift podcast stands to be one of the top sources of knowledge and insights, specifically into real estate and entrepreneurship out there! Not to mention tons of coverage of topical events and insights into our non-commercial lives as well… If that sounds interesting to you, make sure to subscribe.About John Gafford:➡️After appearing on NBC's "The Apprentice", John relocated to the Las Vegas Valley and founded several successful companies in the real estate space. ➡️ The Gafford Group at Simply Vegas, top 1% of all REALTORS nationwide in terms of production. Simply Vegas, a 600 agent brokerage with billions in annual sales➡️ Clear Title, a 7 figure full service title and escrow company.➡️ Streamline Home Loans - An independent mortgage bank with more than 100 loan officers. *************✅ Follow Escaping the Drift with John Gafford on social media: Instagram ▶️ https://www.instagram.com/thejohnmgafford Facebook ▶️ https://www.facebook.com/gafford2/ 💯Find Jen Gottlieb:Instagram ▶️https://www.instagram.com/jen_gottlieb/Web ▶️ https://jengottlieb.com/beseen/

And now, Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford, and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the drift, and it's time to start right now. Back again, back again for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Got a good one for you today, guys. Got a great one. This is an interview I was supposed to do a long time ago, and for whatever reason, we just kind of couldn't put it together. And I'm so

tickled that I got the opportunity to put this back on the books today. So today with us, we have, I'm going to give her a little intro. This is someone that has kind of gone from, you know, one career in the spotlight to another career in the spotlight and really just kind of taken off in everything she's done. She was a Broadway performer. She was spent 14 years on a television show on VH1. She has transitioned that into a goal of being the number one motivational speaker in the world. I've seen her speak at events. She's phenomenal. She is the author of the book, Be Seen. She is Jen Gottlieb. Hi, Jen. Hi.

How are you? Was that thorough enough? That was great, except you aged me because I definitely wasn't on the show for 14 years. You were? I thought you were. Then I would have been on it for like when I was a kid. That's true. That's a good point. It'd been like the Mouseketeer Club. About five years. Five years. 14 seasons. 14 seasons. That's true. That's a good point. It'd been like the Mouseketeer Club. About five years. Five years. 14 seasons.

14 seasons. That's where you got the 14 from. See, that's what I do. See, it was 14 years in television time. Right. But in five years in reality. Exactly. Like, for example,

when I was on The Apprentice, a week was three days. It compresses. That's how it works. A hundred percent. That's how it does it. Well, I'm so glad to have you on because, again,

the purpose of our podcast is to get people to the next level in their life, to get people moving up from where they want to be. And I know that's something you have really dedicated your life to. Yeah. So the first thing I want to talk about is what makes, you know, look, obviously you are incredibly driven. You are somebody that has been successful in several pursuits in your life. So talk to me about growing up. What made Jen, Jen? Growing up, I was not this way. And I I'm really open about that because I want people to understand that you can change that. It is totally, completely possible to develop confidence and

develop drive over time because I was not a driven kid. I was really passionate about all of my afterschool activities, but I was not a good student. In fact, I barely graduated high school. When I got to high school, I never wanted to go to school. I just wanted to be in the shows because I wanted to perform. I wanted to be on the cheerleading team and I wanted to do all the fun stuff and I wanted to go out to the clubs and I wanted to go party and I wanted to go to the beach. I lived in South

Florida, but I did not want to go to school. Where in South Florida? Where'd you go? Boca, around that area. Boca. My aunt lived in the Aegean and P pompano for a lot of years okay because i'm floridian too by i am floridian by birth where i'm the opposite florida though okay like north florida i'm baja georgia florida okay yeah i'm lake city okay now yeah i'm stopping at gas fairly florida that i don't that's barely florida maybe got a burger there that's where it is yeah so okay so, okay. So you're Florida and I

guess I got to skip back and ask one very important. Yes. Cause it's religion there. Who's your college team? Oh, I don't even have one. You don't have one. Okay. You know what? That's fair. I'm not, I am always going to be honest with you. I'm like not a sports fanatic. Okay. You're not, you're not go sports team person. I get it. That's okay. Most people from Florida. I can ask that question. Is it Gators? Most people? No.

What is it? I say I don't even know. From your part of the world, it would be Hurricanes. Really? Yeah, it would be. And I went to Florida State. So in that.

I didn't know you went to Florida State. Yeah, we were going to have a problem like right that quick. Yeah, but no, I didn't even give it to you. Which is a great theater program, which you should know that. I know, I know. And I did go to a theater program

for a hot second in college, but I dropped out of college. Me too. So I was, well, now we are in common. I know. I know. And I did go to a theater program for a hot second in college, but I dropped out of college. Me too. So I was, well, now we are in common. Now we have lots in common. See, we're from Florida and we do that. We're college dropouts. I know. We're already winning. But my question is, as a kid, let's get back to that. I'm sorry I sidebarred with the football question.

But as a kid, so you said you didn't have a lot of confidence. You didn't have a lot of grit. Grit was there. Okay, I didn't have the grit. I had the confidence't have a lot of grit. Was it, was grit was there? Okay. I didn't have the grit. I had the confidence. You had the confidence, but not the grit.

Super, super confident kid. Like when I was a little, little kid, I was a performer. I was a child actor. I mean, I like all I wanted. If you came over to my house when I was like five, you were sitting on the couch and I was putting on a show. It was showtime. Full on show.

I was, I would be on a table. I'd be singing and dancing. It was a stage. You were watching me. You you were paying attention i always wanted to be seen i always was like singing dancing putting on performances when i got to 13 12 my parents got divorced my dad got diagnosed with multiple sclerosis my whole like perfect little world that i had because i had a really tight family unit i came from like a an upper middle class family. Everything was good. I could do anything that I wanted. Like I was like, Jenny, my family was always like, you're so special. You're so wonderful. And then it all kind of started to crumble. And I rebelled in a really big way and I got angry. And I think that came

out in a lot of different, in different ways and not wanting to go to school and not wanting to do that whole thing was, was a big part of it. And my confidence really, really dwindled in that time. Do you think it was cause a lot of stuff, like a guy of a similar kind of story, I won't get too much into it, but I have similar story. It was a young kid, the perception of what you were supposed to be, your family unit, all of those things, again, child of divorce shocker. Uh, but I think what happened was for me was it damaged me because the self image that I had I thought what how other people saw me was now different and that affected me in a way was there some of that did you feel some like let down as the outside because you were such a performer

yeah so it was obviously the approval of others the opinions of others very important to you and all of a sudden now your perfect world shatters. And do you think that the other people's probably non-existent judgment, to be honest with you at that age affected you? I think what happened was I was so used to getting all of the attention from my parents. Like you're amazing. You're the best. You're the greatest. Oh my gosh. Look at Jenny. Look at Jenny go. And then all of a sudden the attention wasn't there anymore because the attention was on Their issues as it should have been right because that's what happens when families get divorced

And I think I was looking for it in all the wrong places. So I suddenly got really really into How can I be cool in middle school? How can I be like fit in with the cool girls and I started really just doing everything that I possibly could to remove who? I really was and dress and look and act and speak like all these girls in school so that I could be liked by the boys so that I could feel included so that I could get attention. And that meant not being my weird out there performing self. It meant like putting on all this makeup and I developed a serious eating disorder and like skipping school and doing all these bad things because I was like, oh, I should be this way to fit in. And I went down a really dark path.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of that, a lot of young girls go down during that middle school time to feel included and to feel seen by the people that mean the most to them in their life. And because my parents were doing the best that they could, they did the absolute best that they could. So I don't blame them for this, but there was a lot going on.

And so I tried to get my attention from other places and it, I lost myself and I lost my confidence during that time. Did your parents, and again, all of our parents did the best they could, especially growing up, if you grew up in the eighties or nineties, like there was a whole nother level of doing the best you can. But, and so my question is, do you think that your parents would have done, and obviously hindsight is 2020, but do you think that your parents would have done, and obviously hindsight is 2020, but do you think it would have been better for you had they spent more time instead of giving you the attention and the approval that they were giving you working to develop that within yourself?

A hundred percent. I think they were trying to get me to develop it within myself, but doing it in the wrong way. Yeah. Like you're so special. You're so great. You're so great. You're so great. Instead of having to develop it within myself, but doing it in the wrong way. Yeah. Like you're so special. You're so great. You're so great. Instead of having me figure it out myself.

Like I was able to quit anything I started. This is an interesting, actually, I'm really grateful that I had all these different experiences when I was a kid. And I went from one thing to the next cause they all kind of come into play now in the thing that I do today. Yeah.

But here's a great example. So I was a competitive gymnast. I was a almost black belt in karate. I was a equestrian jumper. I was a, I was a dancer. I did all of these different activities. But the second that I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm over it. They'd be like, okay. Was it that you decided it was too hard or you just, you just got over it? I just got over it and I just moved on for whatever reason. I remember karate I didn't think was cool anymore. I thought it was nerdy. And so I spent like years becoming a really great karate person. I was good.

And then one day I just didn't fit with what you were doing. And one day I was like, this isn't cool. Like this is nerdy. So I don't want to do this anymore. And then everyone was just like, okay, that's fine. So I didn't develop my grit then. I definitely didn't. Do you think that became a habit?

When I was a kid? Yeah, quitting. Yeah. So my question is, like, I think a lot, one of the smartest things I heard somebody say in a really long time was they were talking about integrity. And they were saying that, you know, a lot of people define integrity as doing what you say what you will do right to others. And the reality was it's not really true because there's a consequence if you don't do what

you say to others. So there's a driving force outside of your internal goodwill. And what it really means to have high integrity is to not break promises to yourself. And I thought that was so, I was like, whoa, that's a, that's a write down from the audience kind of thing. That's going to scramble on the hand. I thought it was amazing. And so the question becomes, and I find this very interesting because a lot of people, I think that are, that are, you know, going to reach for my book when it comes out and are looking for those solutions externally for why they're stuck in life or why they're at a place that isn't going somewhere. I think a lot of it has to do with breaking promises to themselves.

A hundred percent. So I say, and I have an entire section on confidence in my book, confidence comes from consistently sticking with the commitments that you make with yourself. Because every single time you tell yourself you're going to do something and you don't follow through, let's say you say you're going to get up at five o'clock in the morning and go to the gym. You say you're going to do it. You set that intention. You set that goal.

You commit yourself to that. And then you wake up and you don't do it. You're actually telling your subconscious mind that you can't trust yourself to follow through with the things that you say that you're going to do. It's going to get hard. But every single time you do do it and you do follow through, let's say, okay, you get up at five, you go to the gym, you don't want to, it sucks, it's painful. You don't even have a good time when you're working out. But when you get

done, you're subconsciously putting another coin in your confidence bank because you're proving to yourself that you follow through with the things that you say you're going to do. So the next time something comes your way, you're like, I got this. I stick to my commitments. Well, I think I would take it one step further. And I would say you actually forget putting a coin in. You take a coin out when you don't, because when there's no consequences to anybody outside of yourself and you're like, well, I didn't go to the gym this morning and I didn't die. I skipped it tomorrow. I mean, I'm not, the world didn't end. So it kind of makes it okay. So that quitting habit becomes okay. So that's why you got to tie a big fat why to your goals.

You've got to put pressure on your goals. And I've learned that now. So we're talking about me as a kid. Like I had to learn this over time. I'm a student of personal development. I love that. Full on. Like I am a professional student. I am the result of what happens when you invest time, energy, mentorship, like all the things, personal development. I did it and I practiced it and it's not perfect all the time, believe me. But now my brain automatically will put a really big why behind my goals. Pressure, like a lot of pressure. Because I know that if there's not a lot of pressure behind my goal, if there's not a big why, if I'm not tied to maybe it's

something that I really care about, then if I don't follow through, it's not that big of a deal. And I need to force myself to follow through because not sticking to my commitments makes me a not confident person. So I tie all of my goals to something unbelievably serious to me, something that is like a life or death non-negotiable thing. And when I do that, it forces me to stick to them. Yeah. Well, I think if you can't answer the question as to why you're doing something emphatically, you shouldn't be doing it all. I like that. I think, you know, that was, you know, I'm struggling with that right now. My son who plays lacrosse, he's been playing for several years and, uh, you know, we had the parents meeting last night and we're sitting

there and, uh, you know, I look at him and all his teammates are just goofing around with each other, playing Bob Bond. He's just on his phone and i'm like at the end of it i was like why are we here buddy like why are we doing this because like you're not are you part of the team or you're not part of the team you just like because just playing lacrosse is just part of it you should you should want to really really do this yeah and if you don't if you don't if it's not calling you if it's not fulfilling you on some level then let's find something that does a hundred percent you know know, what'd he say? Nothing. He just moped and just, he's 15. He didn't have a profound answer for me. Unfortunately,

one day he will, one day he will be on a podcast and he will be using this story as an example of how he learned and how he grew. Yes, I agree. And it's so funny. So you went from somebody that had no grit, right? Let's talk about that. And at what age do you think that started to develop in you and how? It really started to develop when, all right. So there were, there was times where I was forced to succeed in my own right. Like when I moved, when I started to go to college, when I came home and I had to figure it out and then I moved to New York city on my own. But really when it happened was after my rock bottom moment and I had to pick everything up and the, the rock bottom,

just to put it in like, like really short story for you. I was on the show on VH1 for five years, not 14 and 14 seasons. Yes. 14 seasons. And, and it was about heavy metal music and I know nothing about heavy metal music

and I hate heavy metal music, but I had built this brand and this, this persona of who I thought everybody thought that I should be. And so I was living this lie. And I was completely detached from who I really was. And I really spiraled. I was unbelievably depressed. I was in a toxic relationship. And within a week's time, all of it kind of imploded.

And the show got canceled. The guy that I was with left me for one of my friends. And I found myself in this tiny little apartment with six other actors in the window that faced a wall in New York City on the Upper East canceled. The guy that I was with left me for one of my friends, and I found myself in this tiny little apartment with six other actors in the window that faced a wall in New York City on the Upper East Side. Yikes. And I had to start over. And that was when grit was developed

because I had no other choice. So I'm going to back up then because you had something that I also think is very hard to deal with because a lot of people do it, which is I call it failing successfully, where you reach some moniker of success. You get to a point in your life that's good and you haven't built it on a solid foundation. So it's like, I ask myself all the time, but it's like, would it be better to have never achieved anything

on a weak foundation and start fresh and go forward? Or is it harder to have achieved some level of success on a weak foundation, have it crumble and have to start over? Whatever your story is your story. I don't know what's better and what's not, but I, I'm so grateful and appreciative for that time. Every time that was a shit show in my life, I'm appreciative for because it created grit. It created the resiliency that I have. It created who I am. Looking backwards, all that stuff needed to happen in order for me to be sitting here right now. Right. Right. And that position that I was sitting in where I was sitting looking out that little tiny window at that brick wall where I was thinking, holy crap, what the hell am I going to do? And

who am I anyway? Like, I don't even know who I am anymore or what I even want. I have no money. I have no relationship. Like, what am I going to do? That moment and me being able to move through that moment and move through all the discomfort that came with pushing forward and building my first business and having to show up at this gym at five o'clock in the morning and not leave until eight o'clock at night and like really show up and be there and do it and have the grit for the first time and have the persistence and have discipline for the first time. All of that is what gave me all of the grit and the resilience that I have today. All of it. So what was the first business? Yeah. The first business was a personal training business. So I was an actress and at the time I had overcome an eating

disorder and I had finally had like this healthy viewpoint of exercise and food. And it was like the thing that I wanted to do when I could think about what's the only thing that you could do other than auditioning and being, you know, trying to get gigs? Well, I think I could be a great personal trainer because that job means that you can make your own schedule. And so I can audition on the side. Seems like a great gig rather than being a waitress or a babysitter. So I'm like, I'm going to be a personal trainer. But I knew that I didn't want to just be any kind of personal trainer. I was like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to train at the best gym in Manhattan. There's Reebok Sports Club. It's like the gym that Madonna works out at and Adam Sandler.

And at the time I had a membership there because the guy that I used to date hooked me up and he paid for my membership there. You got something. That's exactly right. So I had the membership and I was like, okay, I have 30 days or something left in this membership. And then it's gone, right? Like after we broke up. So I better make the best out of this, right? I tell this entire story in the book and I was like, I'm going to be a trainer here. I had zero experience training people, zero. And they only hired trainers that were like, had their certification,

have been training for a long time because it's a fancy schmancy gym. And I, that was where I learned how to network. I networked my face off. I was at that gym from morning till night, meeting everybody there, the manager meeting every single trainer there. What do I have to do to work here? What do I have to do to work here?

And I actually, it was, you were on the apprentice. I felt like when I had my job interview for this gym, I was like on the, in the apprentice because I was trying to convince this manager to hire me with zero experience. And he's like, okay, fine. We're like arguing. And I'm like, I swear I will show up. I'll do anything. Cause my back was against the wall. I'm going to get it done. There was pressure behind my goal. I was like, I need to do something And so he's like here's what you're gonna do You're not gonna be able to train clients for three months You have to clean up the gym and be like a g like a gym janitor

Basically, like put the weights away and you're gonna have to do a mentorship with this other trainer every single day and follow him Around and learn from him for three months before you can take clients So basically my job I was getting paid probably less than minimum wage I didn't even know what it was was like seven dollars an hour to walk around the gym from 6am to 8pm and clean up weights and talk to people and follow this other guy around. And I was like, done. I'm going to be the best gym janitor you've ever seen in your entire life. And this is where I learned hard work discomfort. Cause I was like, I don't care. This is, I need this. And then finally, you're going to like this story because it sounds a little bit like you're, I feel like your

daughter would very much enjoy this story. I become a trainer at this gym. I finally get to train people. I start building my book and I start training people. And I'm like, this is entrepreneurship. Holy crap. I was learning how to sell. I was learning how to market myself. I was learning that, oh, like I could actually build a business here. So I started training people and I started becoming like the best trainer at the gym. I started getting the most hours out of every trainer at the gym. And then I started to realize, holy crap, wait a second. These people are paying the gym $150 a session and I'm getting paid $30 a session.

This is stupid. I said, hey, you want to come work out at the gym across the street and I'll train you and you can pay me the one, you can pay me 130. And so then I started taking the clients and this was the most reasonable thing for me in my mind to do. Out of the gym and training them in the gym across the street. They didn't like that too much, I'm guessing. They did not like that very much. You're not allowed to do that.

I don't care for that. Yes. But they fired me. They fired me. Greatest thing that ever happened to me. Yeah. Because it forced me to go build this company. Was that the last job you ever had?

That was the last job I ever had. Do you consider yourself, as I do, chronically unemployable? Completely. Yeah. I can't. Yeah. I'm not going to play. Completely. I'm just not. So this forced me to go build this whole business. I had trainers training people all around the city working under me. Like I built a, I built a brand and I learned how to market. I learned how to do PR. I learned how to rebrand myself from heavy metal girl to fitness girl. You know what I think is so interesting about that? And probably there's so many lessons in that story, but the one that I like the best is that when you hit a, when you get, when you're in a hard place, man, you get to that end of your rope, you know, back against the wall, whatever you call it. The first thing you got to do is

kind of take an inventory of your assets. Like what do I have that I can turn into something different? And not too many people would look at a 30 day left on gym membership as an opportunity to change careers. But you looked at that like at a different way. So again, it's one of those things where I think if you're struggling, man, you got to look at what you do have and maybe you're just not using it in the right way. Oh, so good. What do you have available to you?

And what are your superpowers? What are you good at? Yeah. What are like, there's a, because I think a lot of people are like, okay, I should do this. This is what everybody tells me that I should do. But why don't you ask yourself, like I had asked myself, what are my superpowers? What am I really bad at? And I was self-aware to know that I would be really bad at sitting behind a desk. I would be really terrible at that. I would be really terrible at doing any kind of computer work or anything like that. I needed to be up talking to people because that's what I'm good at. I would think that when you were transitioning to different things, that your history and career and focus and study in the theater would really help you.

Because I got to tell you something. The very first time I saw you speak, I saw you, I think it might've been 100 mil. I don't remember what it was. The first time i thought you i saw you speak i saw you i think it might have been 100 mil i don't i don't remember what it was the first time i saw you on stage i couldn't help when i heard the bio i started wondering from the second you're up there i'm like is she really this good or is she just an actress that's really good at playing this role i'm obviously look you're amazing on stage and i'm not taking anything away from that but i'm saying that's a plus, not a negative. I'm taking it as well because the content was exceptional, but the delivery was so good. And I'm thinking to myself, man, if I would have been a professionally trained, you know,

actor or actress, and you think about that and the ease at which that skill has probably got you easing in and out of whatever you want to do. I mean, so, you know, when you first started obviously going to the gym, you probably didn't just start slinging around. You probably sort of watching what the other trainers were doing, just modeling what they were doing. Yeah. Is that accurate? Oh, completely. Yeah. I mean, and I still do that to this day. I look at successful entrepreneurs or successful speakers and I'm like, what are they doing that's working? What can I take from this and make it into my own?

Yeah, I studied people. I studied, like, of course, like when you're learning a role, you're studying somebody and you're learning how to, like, what can you bring to that character? But you're watching. I think that everybody does that. Yes. When I was becoming a trainer. I don't think they do.

I disagree with you. You don't think so? No, because I think people want to do it their way. And I think too many people are so quick to say, I want to do this how I want to do it instead of the easier route, which is finding people that are really good at what they do and modeling what they do. It's the most simple concept. And I talk about it in the book a lot because it is the key to success because many people have done what you want to do. Many. Yes. They're paving the yellow brick road for you. So I think a lot of people get in their head and they're like, oh no, I don't want to do

it that way. They already did it. And so I'm going to try to do it a different way. Well, actually, guess what? If you just study that person, they've done the step-by-step system to get to where you want to be. If you follow it and make it your own, bravo. Nothing's completely original.

Everyone's already planted the seed for something else. Right. I was just watching that Blackberry movie. We started watching it yesterday, right? The black, that was planting the seed for the iPhone, right? So the iPhone wasn't completely original. It was an original thing, but it came from seeds planted, somebody else doing something and somebody else like taking that and making it into their own. And a little bit better, a little bit different. And that's how everything is formed and everything is built. So I, yeah, I just, I love that so much. Cause when I watch you again, back to watching you you speak i just thought it was so well done and like i'm in a place now with what

i do with my speak it's like what i would like i was watching erwin mcmanus speak not too long ago i could not tell you anything he said because i wasn't paying attention to what he said i was paying attention to how he walked how he paused how pointed, how he inflected on the words. I was studying him on stage in the same way that an actor would study a role. And I thought that was great. So I just, I think it's almost unfair because you're so good at that. And I think that was, I think that was definitely an advantage you had. So I think getting good at observing people and just watching how they carry themselves and how they do things that are successful is so good. And I think, you know, people should be, anybody wants to get on stage to watch you.

Thank you. I think you've taken, I think there's nobody like you. I don't compare what you do to anybody else, but I could definitely tell you obviously had an accelerated learning. That was a skill set that was accelerated. Yeah. And I so much so i'm obsessed with learning about it and you know like for whatever it is that you're doing whoever's listening to this like You're gonna know like what you're gonna succeed at by just if you enjoy the shit out of it Yeah, when i'm like practicing my keynote or when i'm on stage or when i'm learning about speaking or i'm watching somebody or i'm

Like I am so in the pocket that time stops for me Because I love it so much. And I can tell like, even right now, like you're doing this pocket, you love this shit. Like this is like, like time has stopped for you. This is not hard for you to do. And so for me, speaking is like, that's my jam. It's what I love. So it feels easy for me to learn about it. Like it doesn't feel hard. Like if you were to ask me to go sit and learn how to do a C like use a CRM and like all that fancy schmancy stuff that my marketing team does, I, it would feel like the most painful thing in the world. And I wouldn't want to do it. And I wouldn't want to learn from people because I don't like it. So think about the thing that you really love to do. This is like the person that's listening. That's like, I don't want

to, I don't know what to do. I don't know what my purpose is. What do you love to do? What are your superpowers? What like do people say that you do better than anybody else in the world? And, and think about how you can create a career out of it. superpowers. What like do people say that you do better than anybody else in the world? And think about how you can create a career out of it. Well, I think that brings me to a point that I think is kind of running rampant and I want your opinion on it, which is in the days and now the new age of social media, right? Big followings, this and that. There's a lot of show without a lot of go behind it. And I think the people that start with the show and not with the go wind up fizzling out pretty quick and the people that don't like, but again, back to like, so I want to know what you think about that. Yeah. Yeah, there is for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And,

and, but there's, there's a double-edged sword here. And I think that there's a way to do this because I, a lot of people are like, Jen, like I haven't done the thing yet, but I want to build a brand and like, I want to create content, but I haven't done the thing yet, but I want to build a brand and like I want to create content But I haven't done the thing that I want to do yet And how can I position myself as the expert? And I think that there's a really authentic amazing opportunity for you to really take people along the journey of you becoming the expert Instead of just appearing to be the expert already when you're not and I think that's the mistake people are making There are some people out there that are like i'm an expert at this and they haven't done it yet

Stand in front of my rented plane exactly and they're in the background trying to make this happen But they're positioning themselves as the expert. Yeah now what if because I want everybody that's listening right now to start creating content It's unbelievably important Especially if you want to be eventually an expert in something or you want to be an entrepreneur or business owner Anybody in the world should have a virtual presence. So be honest, be open, take your audience along the journey. Hey, I'm becoming an expert in this right now. Come along the journey with me as I start to develop this. And I'm going to teach you what I'm learning along the way. So I've done that a lot with my speaking career. I go live on Instagram every morning. I've seen some of that. Yeah. I put my makeup on and I talk to people and

I'm just so like myself. I'm like, all right, here's what I learned today from the speaking engagement. Like this is what I learned in the moment. I am not the like myself. I'm like, all right, here's what I learned today from the speaking engagement. Like this is what I learned in the moment. I am not the expert yet. I just learned this crazy thing that I didn't even know. I was so nervous about this, but I went on stage and I did it this way and this worked for me.

Yeah. And take them along the journey and show them how you're learning and evolving and actually teaches more people and connects people to you way more than just pretending that you know everything, especially when you don't because people can smell that shit now from a mile away.

Oh, God. One of my most watched, interacted with reels, videos, whatever it was on Instagram, was my failures always get more response than my wins. And I'll never forget. I went to an event, and it was in Texas. And I was down in the lobby, and I met this guy. And Atlanta came up for some reason. And I used to live in Atlanta and I was the operator of a big nightclub there that went out of business after the Ray Lewis incident. Right. And somehow this came up in this conversation,

this guy's from Atlanta came up, Bob Bon. I was like, yeah, you know, Cobalt was great until, you know, Ray Lewis, you know, those people got killed and put us out of business and this and that. And the guy was like, oh yeah, there isn't no big deal. He's like, oh, let's swap Instagram. We got done. So I'm walking away from him. I don't even get 10 feet. And I opened his Instagram and I look at like five pictures down and there's a picture of him and Ray Lewis. Not like I met you and hey, can I get a picture? We're at dinner. You know what I mean? It was like, that's his dude. And I was like, Oh God, I'm telling people like, well, networking mistake. Number one, you never know who people know.

So even if it's in passing, never say an ill word about anyone. And it was just such a mistake. And I, you know, I took it right on the chin, but yeah, I agree. Showing that journey of evolution is so important. People need to see, especially someone that they look up to so much that has done so much. It's really easy to say, oh, well, of course they could do all those things. They never mess up, right? A lot of people compare their chapter one or their beginning to somebody else's chapter 20. And I think it's important if you have created success and you want to be an expert or you want to have an audience or a community and you want to teach

and you want to impact, you need to show them the step-by-step journey to get here. You need it. Like in that book, I talk about all my face plans and my failures. I want you to know that like, and look, I didn't start out with all of this grit. I did start out with all this confidence. So you can too. And I think it's a, it's a scary world that we live in right now where you can open up social media and like, everyone's got a highlight reel. Oh God. Right? It's like everyone's just showing the final product

and that's okay. That's what social media is for, right? To showcase the best, like we're not going to get online, not most people and say, I just got in the biggest fight with my spouse. No one's going to do that. They're going to post the beautiful photo

of you and your spouse. Well, it's what somebody said, when you see the fall holiday couples photos, divorce the next six months. Well, it's what somebody said. When you see the fall holiday couples photos, divorce the next six months. Okay, wait, let me tell you a fun story though, because I am not on that path anymore. I am over that way. This is important. So I'm married to my business partner, Chris Winfield, my husband, and we do business together, like everything. And we fight a lot. And I'm very open and honest about this. So we do not have the perfect relationship. I'm madly in love with my husband, but we, I'm never going to say that we're perfect. That's

just ridiculous. But a lot of people do. But anyways, so we went to this fancy dinner this one night in the city. It was a couple of weeks ago because like we were like ships passing in the night for two weeks, just traveling and speaking and everything. And he's like, I've got this like really amazing dinner planned for us. It was like this great date night. I was so excited about it. And we get all dressed up and we go to this restaurant and we take a photo before we go in a really gorgeous photo. We're like, can't wait to post this. Right.

We go into this restaurant and halfway through this eight course tasting, we just, we, I don't know. I said something, he said something. We get into a fight. Okay. We're stuck. We can't get out of this argument. We are fighting at this restaurant and we are just hating each other.

And we're just like arguing about, we can't snap out of it. It's just fighting at this restaurant and we are just hating each other. And we're just like arguing about, we can't snap out of it. It's just not happening. We leave the restaurant in a fight. We get in the car, we go home. We finally work it out, okay? We come to the other side. The next morning, we're fine.

We've overcome the fight. And my husband goes, will you send me that cute photo so I can post it? And I go, I will only send you this photo if you tell the real story. Yeah, this was 10 minutes before we were furious at each other. Okay. I was like,

you promise? He's like, yes. And he wrote a post. He's like one picture, two stories. Right. And it was like the,

what we wanted the night to be, what the night ended up being. And this photo is a picture of 10 minutes down to a huge fight. That post got so much more engagement than loving life. We had a great date night. And I think that that's important. So many people were like, thank you for being real. Thank you for sharing what really happens

because most people are having lifey stuff like that happen. Whether it's a fight with your spouse or maybe your kids are driving you crazy or maybe you had a failure in business. That's what's really happening. And if you open up social media and you just see everybody's perfect, final, beautiful filtered photo,

then you start to feel very alone in the shit that's happening. Yeah. And I think it's important to connect and say, we're human too. I think, you know, God, I got to tell you,

I catch myself doing that sometimes when you're like looking through and you're like, how in the world is this kid making $200,000 a month online? And then like, you know, six months later, they're like in jail or something else. But still. But you catch yourself like, I don't understand.

Like, I don't understand. Yes, and then you can start to feel bad. Like I'll open my phone and I don't even realize I'm doing it sometimes. I open it and it's like, oh, 15 minutes later, it's like my thumbs just did it. I didn't even know. And I was just scrolling.

I had no idea I was doing it. And then 15 minutes later, I start feeling bad about myself. I'm like, why did I just do that to myself? Dude, I've gotten to the point where I've told my wife, like, I think I need therapy. I think I had this need for people to think I'm important. I don't understand what's going on. She's like, you need to get off Instagram.

Yeah. That's what you need to do. Well, you just need to scroll with caution. Yes. And understand and know this. I think it's an important conversation. I'm glad we're talking about it. Yeah.

So you just know. So for me, I have a very strict rule of myself now. I create before I consume. So no matter what, if i'm opening social yeah it's because i'm creating something yes whether i'm creating a connection so going to connect with someone specifically to comment on their post or to dm them or to make a relationship happen or i'm creating content yeah i'm doing that first and then if i'm scrolling it's intentionally dude i talk about that all the time that you know we are so consumed as a society i'm talking to use the word twice but we're so consumed with a society as to what

we consume into our bodies right right there's fat shaming and there's oh you shouldn't eat fast food you should do this but there's so little thought to what people consume with their brains on a daily basis like in my opinion if you're sitting and watching the Kardashian back to back festival, you might as well go get a 24 piece of chicken from KFC and eat it yourself. It's the same thing. And I think, you know, always I'm with you lead with,

if you want to, if you want to create, create, but be careful what you consume. And not a lot of people have that filter. No, no. And I don't always do it perfectly. I'll be honest. Like I said, sometimes my thumb goes there by accident. I do it. I'm like, shit, but be careful what you consume. And not a lot of people have that filter. No, no. And I don't always do it perfectly.

I'll be honest. Like I said, sometimes my thumb goes there by accident. I do it. I'm like, shit, I did it again. Nope. Now we're going to create. Now I'll catch myself. So we don't have to be 100% perfect.

Like I don't want someone to be sitting here. Oh man, if I failed, then forget it. Like throw it all out the window. But it's a mindset. It's a mindset shift to be a little bit more intentional when you open up the app. A little bit more intentional. What is my goal here? Why am I doing this right now?

Am I doing this to go learn something from somebody? Am I doing this to go to connect with someone? Am I doing this to go do some research? Am I doing this to create something? Ask yourself, what is my scroll goal? What is my goal of this social media? Or am I just letting social media do me and tell me that I'm not good enough,

that all of these, I need to buy all these things. I need to get a fricking nose job. I need to do, you know, like lose 20 pounds. I need to redecorate my apartment. I need to get my these things. I need to get a fricking nose job. I need to lose 20 pounds. I need to redecorate my apartment. I need to get my kids into a different school because they're not behaving like this person's kids. I don't know. I think it's funny how manipulative social media can be.

And I think you have a stepdaughter and I have kids and you're always so scared of the time they spend on those apps, just mindlessly scrolling. And this summer, one of the good things that happened was I, just mindlessly scrolling. And this summer, one of the good things that happened was I try to get my kids good internships every summer. And this summer, the guys over at VShred, I don't know if you know them or not, I've never met them. They're here in Vegas, but VShred is, Vince, the VShred guy, you know what that is, you've probably seen on social media. It's a $900 million annual. They've taken $900 million annual on a fitness app wow it's crazy well i'm

gonna look it up after this dude it is bananas how good they do and they were nice enough uh nick and kevin to take my son in and he spent all summer learning about funnels and copywriting and everything else amazing how manipulative that stuff can be and why you want to be manipulative with it and so i think it gave him such a different frame of reference that other kids don't have. Like they're, this is on purpose. Everything you're seeing is on purpose.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. But social can be an amazing, amazing tool as well. So we don't want to like totally downplay social media. It's so important. It's so important to have a brand.

Let's do this. I'm going to get to that, but I do want to talk about the book. So the book, Be Seen. I'm going to hold it up so you can see it. Be Seen, available in all your bookstores on Penguin Books, which was very impressive. Hay House. Hay House.

Is it not on Penguin? Oh, yeah. Penguin Random House and Hay House, I think. Yeah, it's the same thing. Yeah, same thing. I saw that. That's impressive. Thank you.

That's good for you. Thank you. That's great. But yeah, the book, you broke it down into four different parts, right? And the first part, you talk about being courageous. And I think we've talked about a little bit of that at this point. So I think the first step, and I think part of what you were trying to say in that is being honest with yourself and having an honest conversation.

So what are the steps someone should take if they need to have an honest conversation with themselves? I love this. And I love that you remember that. It was be courageous. And I love that you're like, this is like the same path that we're on right now is. So in order to be seen,

you need to see yourself for exactly who you are. And the only reason that I know this is because I didn't for a very long time. And I think it's like really tapping in and being self-aware enough to know, am I being seen as me? Or am I living a life that I want for myself? Or am I living a life that everybody else told me

that I should have? Am I showing up as a person that I know that I am in my gut, in my core? Am I showcasing that to the world? Or am I showcasing this masked version of me, the version that my parents wanted me to be? And I think that the first step is really tapping into who you were when you were a really little kid. And I talk about that in the beginning of the book of setting the scene. And I like to go, when I first started reconnecting with what I call her real Jen, the real Jen, the little girl that if to go, when I first started reconnecting with like what I call her real Jen, like the real Jen, like the little girl that if you came over

when I was five, like you were going to see a show and I was going to be real Jen and I had frizzy hair and I had a belly that hung out and I didn't care and I was wearing a big Chicago Bills t-shirt and I was just singing and dancing Michael Jackson

all over the house and you would have to watch me. And that girl- No choice. No, no choice. That girl did not give a crap about what anyone thought of her. She did not care.

She was completely unapologetic. And who is that girl's in us? That little boy's in you. Whoever that was for you. I'm sure he wasn't like real Jen. He was your own. Oh, no, dude. He was he was running around the backyard.

There you go. In North Florida in a Tarzan bathing suit. Yes, he was. With a plastic knife, as my sisters love to remind me whenever they can. Right? He didn't care. He was like, I'm gonna do this. I might wear the Tarzan.

She got me motivated. I might wear the Tarzan tomorrow. I don't know. That should be your Halloween costume. No, no, no. So I want to tap back into her because the decisions that she would make, if I asked her,

what should you be doing right now? She would always tell me the thing that's most aligned with my truth. And then I believe that when you're in alignment with your truth and who you were meant to be and where your heart is and what you really love, you will succeed because you love it. And it's who you are and it's your secret sauce that you were born with, but we lose it when we get older. So you want to reconnect to that little kid.

So what about if, so, okay, again, trying to reconnect with yourself is your true self. Yeah. What if you are not in alignment with what you believe your true self to be your projection to the world and what the world really sees? Yeah. That's where I was for a long time. Yeah. I think there's a lot of, I've been there. I think there's a lot of that. Yeah. You got to be courageous enough to let the world see you. And it can't, it's not going to happen overnight because it's a scary thing. But I teach the confidence continuum in my book.

And it's really how you create momentum and confidence over time. And it all starts with that one scary action step. So let's say your real authentic true self really loves, let's give an example, really, really, really loves knitting. You are obsessed with it. You were obsessed with knitting since you were a kid. You don't tell anybody that you like to knit. You're secretly following all these knitting Instagram handles and you would love to

create a brand all around knitting, but you are so scared to do that because of what everybody would think of you because that is opposite of what you've been showcased as on the internet. So what I would do if I were you is you got to take that first scary action step and that takes grit, that takes discipline, that takes sticking with the commitment you make with yourself. It's going to be scary. It's going to suck, but you got to remember that discomfort is temporary and the growth that comes on the other side of that is permanent. So you've got to just be okay with being uncomfortable and you've got to do that first action step. So the continuum starts like this. You take action. So let's say you're scared

to be seen. You're scared to do a live on social media. Let's use that as an example. Everybody listen. Now this is action steps because like- This is tactical. If you're not actually like, who was it Cole Hatter said that, uh, education without action is entertainment. Oh yeah. All right. So I want everybody to listen. This is a tactical set. I love Cole. So you're going to take that first action step. So let's say you want to start talking about knitting for the first time. So I would say go live on Instagram and talk about it. Okay. So you're petrified to do that. I don't care. You got to do it with fear in the passenger seat of

the car. So you say fear, shut up. You're going to come with me you're petrified to do that. I don't care. You got to do it with fear in the passenger seat of the car. So you say, fear, shut up. You're going to come with me. I'm not going to be fearless. I know I'm going to be afraid. It's going to come along the ride. You press go live. You just do it. Maybe two people show up.

Maybe it's not that good. Whatever, you do it. But when you get to the other side of that live, you get a little dopamine hit. You get a win. You celebrate yourself. And that's where motivation comes from. It comes from winning.

It doesn't come from visualizing. It doesn't come from somebody inspiring you. It comes from doing the act you're afraid to do and then getting the win. All right. So you get that little win from that action step. That little win then takes away a little bit of the power that fear has over you. Because then when the next day comes, you're a little bit more confident to go live again because you already did it. And you know you didn't die. You did it. And now you're going to stick to the commitment you made with yourself because Jen and John said that you're supposed to do that. And you go and you press live and you do it again. Now the second time you

get a bigger win because the second time maybe six people join. And the second time somebody DMs you after and they're like, oh my God, that knitting video. I loved it. I connect so much because I love to knit too. Thank you for showing me that. Do you have any more content? Whoa. Okay. I got a big win. Whoa. That gives me a little bit more motivation, a little bit more momentum. Then I've got a little bit more motivation to do it again. You build a little bit more confidence. You do it again. Okay. Now you're live for 10 minutes. Now 20 people show. Now someone asks you, hey, do you got any courses online about knitting? Sure. I can create that. Your momentum starts to build. Momentum. That's it. That's the confidence continuum. You get the momentum.

That's how it works. I love that. Well of you kind of led into the knitting thing because the second section of the book I don't know why I picked knitting. I don't know but it rolls gonna be creative Yeah, so did you was that a segue you just segued right into part two or you can pretend that would be pretty cool So when you talk about being creative obviously at this point, we're not necessarily just talking about being building content We're talking about being creative in a way to rebuild your life. That's right. So talk about that. Yeah, this is where I talk about the law of action, the law of attraction, manifestation,

and really visualizing the life that you want. And like I said, the law of action, because I think that the law of attraction gets a really bad rap on the internet and these people are doing it wrong. They think that they can just visualize stuff and it'll magically appear in their life. And that is completely inaccurate. But being in the real estate business, this is a tell me, you know, you'll get a call from somebody.

It happens quite a bit or an email saying, like, I want to go see this $20 million house. You're like, OK, you know, we treat everybody respected equally. But you're like, it's $20 million house. We're going to see proof of funds or a recall letter. Oh, I don't I don't have that right now. Like, it's going to work. Like, I swear, you get a call about people trying to manifest. Oh, are they doing that because they want to manifest it?

They're trying to manifest a way that this $20 million house is going to show up in their thing. Yeah. And unluckily for them, I'm not here to assist in their manifestation. No, no, you're not there to assist. But that's the wrong way to do this. So tell me the right way to manifest something.

Yeah. So in that section of the book, I talk about the creation process. And I'll tell you a story of how I manifested the very first thing and how I learned about this in that section of the book, I talk about the creation process and I'll tell you a story of how I manifested the very first thing and how I learned about this and the importance

of the entire process and why it has absolutely nothing to do with you visualizing something and it magically appearing where it really is persistence and action and consistently taking action,

but the visualizing helps you take the action. So when I first moved to New York, I was a musical theater major in college and then I dropped out, moved to New York City to become a famous actress, of course, like we all do. Of course. Right? And when I first moved to New York I was a musical theater major in college and then I dropped out moved to New York City to become a famous actress of course

and when I moved there I went to a two year conservatory program for musical theater and during that time all we would do is go out and party or go see Broadway shows and one of the Broadway shows that I went to go see during that time was The Wedding Singer the Adam Sandler Drew Barrymore movie turned musical and I sat in the back of the theater

and all of a sudden 15 15 minutes into the show, this character emerges. She's wearing like this Madonna, like a virgin costume, like wedding dress. And there's like a smoke machine and she's strutting onto the stage. And this, this character was Linda, the bitch that leaves Robbie Hart at the altar. Yeah. She's like the bad girl. And I don't know why, but I was like, this is my role.

Yeah. That's me. I'm going to play this role. That is it. God came down and said, you are, this is my role. Yeah, that's me. I'm going to play this role. That is it. God came down and said, you are going to play that role. My friend looks at me. We're sitting in the back row of the theater. We couldn't be further from being on Broadway.

I'm like, I'm going to play this part one day. And he's like, okay, sure. And at that time, my mom had given me the book, The Secret. And she's like, you should really read this. I'm like, whatever, mom. I put the book under my bed. I's like, you should really read this. I'm like, whatever, mom. I put the book under my bed. I'm like, I'm not reading this. At the same time, right after I saw that show,

I was watching TV and I saw that Oprah was talking about how she manifested her role on The Color Purple. I've seen that. Right? And I'm like, okay, if Oprah can manifest, what if I didn't experiment? What if I experimented with this and saw if it really worked and I could manifest Linda in that role?

And how did you do that? Okay. So every single night before I went to bed, I started visualizing myself playing the part. And I believe that the subconscious, actually, the Power of the Subconscious Mind is a really powerful book that I think everybody should read. But the subconscious mind doesn't know the difference between a real memory and fake one. So I started implanting this fake memory. And I would visualize myself in the costume, singing the song, seeing the audience, feeling the light on my body, like actually being in that moment. I did it every single night.

And what this did was it slowly started to make me feel like this was actually my reality. And so then I started to go into school and I started to perform the Linda music for my teachers. And I would practice it every single day because I was like, this is mine. I'm Linda and the wedding singer. And I started to declare it to everybody, even though everyone thought I was absolutely crazy. And what this did was it didn't make anything magically come to me, but it made me notice the opportunities and step into them with less fear. So when I saw the audition for the show, I was like, oh, yeah, my costume's ready. I'm ready to go. Finally. Yeah.

Finally. Where's this bed? Walk right in. Sign my name. I'm like number 532. There's 531 other girls that look just like me. We're in the same thing as me, right? And we're singing and dancing all day. It dwindles down to me and two girls. It's actually me and one girl. There's two of us.

And we're battling it out, okay? Not like a dead, did you give like weapons or just, no, I'm kidding. No, they could have given us weapons. It would have been a really beautiful analogy for what was happening. And then they're like, okay, we'll call you. And I find out that I didn't get the part

that she got it, first rejection. But you want to know something? Because I had reprogrammed my brain. I was so fricking sure that this was mine. I was like, okay, I'll just figure out a different way to get it. I wasn't upset. I wasn't discouraged.

This is where I learned, like this is how resilience is built by really believing that it's yours and tricking your mind. So I did some really crazy things to get this part. And one of those things was, I was like, you know what? I got to get in the room with that director again. So I saw that he was auditioning a different show, Footloose.

I'm going to sneak into the Footloose audition wearing my Linda costume, and I'm going to sing the wedding singer music for this guy. Big no-no in the entertainment world. Sure. You can't do that. But I was like, I don't care. I have anything that it takes. So I go, I sing the song.

The guy comes up. The director comes out of the audition room. So wait, real quick. Why is that a big no-no, though? Why? Why are you singing the wrong musical? Is it just crazy? You're just not supposed to do that.

It's just crazy. I'm going to tell you a funny story. Don't just keep going. OK, I'll'll finish and then i want to hear your story so dog ear that one keep going so he's like here's my card we're not casting wedding singer right now but when we do i want you to call me nice this is when i learned how to follow up right in business we need to follow up yep we need to follow up i followed up with this man for six months once a week i had nothing to say to him i was just like hey just checking in here's a picture of my dog like you know remember me remember me remember me remember me finally he brings me back in like six months later i do the whole process again

and then finally i get an email and they they're like congratulations and i'm like holy crap this is happening to me and then i scroll down to the agreement and it says you're going to be the linda understudy oh i still didn't get it. So then I had to go and rehearse this show, watching another girl play my part, going back to FOMO comparison, right? Like learning from other people. So this is actually tying back into the beginning of our conversation because I had two options here.

I could either let this girl completely tear me down and actually hate her and not like her and be pissed off. Or I could understand that she was actually paving the way for me. And if I could study her and learn from her, she was teaching me exactly what I needed to do to crush it. So I studied her and I watched her every night in the wings. I actually wore a fat suit in the show.

I was the fat lady in the show on this one. And as I was sitting there in my fat suit watching this girl. And when I got my moment to play that part. You crushed it. I crushed it. A few weeks later, I get a call. We want you to be Linda for the tour. So this was when we were putting up the show

for two months and we went out on tour with the big costumes and the big sets. And when I played that part for the first time in front of an audience in the same costume that the actress wore on Broadway that I watched years before. The scenery that I saw was exactly the same visual that I had done. Oh, wow.

Exactly the same. I walk backstage, I collapse on the floor. I say to myself, oh my God, anything that you want, you can create. You can just make this happen. But here's the thing. It wasn't because I visualized it. It was because I kept taking action again and again and again. And I was unbelievably persistent and I didn't take no for an answer.

And I kept going until I got it. The visualizing helped make it easier, but the action was what made the goal a reality. That is my view on the law of attraction. Get the action. That's awesome. Do you keep question? Do you keep mementos from like failures in your life? Oh yes. Wait, I have the best. And then I want you to tell your story. You want to know, I'm going to show you my memento. I want to see, I have an album in my phone full of rejection emails. I screenshot them. Every time I get rejected, I put them in my album.

It says rejection emails. And I read them like every time I was rejected. I have a lot of these little things that I keep and people are like, well, what is that? And it's normally just the end of a terrible story. It's what it is to remind me not to do it. The reason I asked about, you said, don't sing as it goes. Because when The Apprentice was over, I get a phone call from a casting agency in New York. And they tell me that David Flabot, who was a very famous sitcom writer, he wrote Will and Grace and a couple of other

things that are very famous was had a new pilot. And he saw me on the apprentice and wanted me to be in the pilot. So I'm like, okay. And they and they're like we're gonna FedEx you the script We'll FedEx it down and we're gonna fly you up to New York to read. Okay. I've never done anything like this I was in a play. I was I was a star of a play when I was in like seventh grade That was it. That was the whole thing, but I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go do this So I called my buddy who kind of knows something about that I go who's like who called you and I said with these people they're legit like that's a real casting agency like yes you need to do it so they fly me they send down the script i open it up and uh they want me to read for the lead which is goody goody's place

was the name of the thing right so amazing i know i'd wait to hear how terrible this goes though so like send me the script and i open it up and I open the script and I'm reading the characters. I'm reading the script and it says in walks Goody and it describes him. And it says middle-aged, slightly overweight, boyish, good looks, but by no means man candy. That's what it says. And I'm like, holy shit, that's terrible. And I'm reading like a couple of pages down and in comes his cousin Vincent, where it says tall, loud, think Vince Vaughn from swingers.

Now at that time, I, if I had a nickel for every time somebody like literally after the apprentice, I go on good morning America. Cause you do the tour. I want to talk about the apprentice. I just want to talk about how much I look like Vince Vaughn. You do. That was it. And sound like him.

All right. So anyway, so I traipsed my little self up to new york i walk into the casting director's office and i walk in and i say i believe there's been a mistake they go what and i go yeah uh you guys told me you wanted me to read for this but it says this in the script so i think i i think i was supposed to do this the guy like your guys for those you can't see this jen's guy sitting by the camera laughing laughing at me right now, hysterically. And literally just like you right there, the guy goes, just kind of licks her on the camera like this. He kind of stares at me and he goes, you can read for whatever you want. As soon as he said that I instantly knew I had screwed up.

And so I read for the other part and never heard anything again. And I told my buddy what happened. He's like, dude, the descriptions in the script don't mean anything. It doesn't mean, I'm like, well, I don't know. That is terrible. So, you know, that my life lesson from that was never assume, you know, what people want and or are thinking. Yes. Ever.

Never. Ever assume that. So yeah, that's, I keep the script in my office to remind me. Do you? That's so good. Yeah, I got it in there. David Fluboff. What could have been?

Did it become a show? No, thank God. It didn't come, because you can imagine. It had like, the people that were already casting it was like the guy that played Big Pussy and the Sopranos. Okay. He was going to be like the uncle guy. And then there was somebody else that was somewhat famous.

I don't remember who it was. It was already cast in the show. But yeah, I don't remember. But thank God that that didn't happen. So let's move to the next chapter, the next section of the book, which is Be Visible. So we've got ourselves kind of reset. We've decided to be creative in how we're going to change ourselves. How to become more visible, Jen? How do we do it? Well, hold on. You missed one. We're not going to talk about it.

Yeah, be connected. Oh, be connected. We did miss be connected. But we can connect both of those because it's important. It's part of being visible. I like that. Okay. So it goes be connected and be visible on purpose. We did miss be connected. But we can connect both of those because it's important. It's part of being visible. I like that. Okay. So it goes be connected and be visible on purpose because here's the thing. A lot of people want to build a brand.

And I think a lot of people that are listening to this know the importance of it because they're watching you and they see that you have become unbelievably successful in your brand and you're helping a lot of people and it's helping build your whole company. Unbelievably important.

Now, it's hard to build a brand on your own from scratch. It's not easy nowadays, especially with the algorithm, just to start creating content and hope that people are going to show up and watch it is difficult. However, if I was starting from scratch, this is what I would do. It's a lot easier to build an audience if you are being put in front of other people's audience. So I would think, who's somebody else that has an audience already that follows them for the thing that I talk about, or maybe something similar. Podcast people. Can I create a relationship with that person so they can put me in front of their audience?

So those people are then follow me. And then that's how you start an audience of people that genuinely are signing up to hear what you have to say. Right. It's a totally different factor when you start having people that are like, oh, like people that follow you, like they, they trust you. They love you. You've got credibility with them. If you bring me onto your show, they're like, oh, well, if John had Jen on, then I guess that she's, she's legit. And I'm going to follow her. It's all about connections. It's all about networking. It's all about people. If you want to build a brand, yes, you want it. You have to create great content. You have to be consistent with your content so that when you are seen by

somebody and they go check you out, you've got a lot of great content for them there. But the key to getting them there is by leveraging what I call OPA, other people's audiences, right? So we're doing that right now. Yes. I mean, one of the biggest mistakes I made when I got serious about building my brand here was there was an agency here in town that I got referred to. A lot of our friends use these guys when they were open. They're no longer open, but a lot of our friends use them. And their strategists were like, this is how you do this. And we've got to do this, blah, blah, blah. And there was the investment in followers. And that was the thing that I regret the most because I've been fighting

that battle for two and a half years. And I'm finally at a place now where I'm evening out. I'm like, my equilibrium is there. So we've lost, you know, pretty much hopefully all the fake folks are now gone and I'm starting to gain, but here's the problem. When you're losing those fake folks, you know, Instagram's like, oh, this person's not popping anymore. We're not going to show yourself. So it's hard. So if you're listening to this and I want to put that out there, do not for any reason by a follower because it will hurt you in the long run. You know, who knew man, bad advice. I didn't know. We, in the, in the beginning of, a lot of people were doing that. And that was the advice that people were giving

because, listen, that agency wanted to be successful and they knew, all right, so you're going to get a lot of followers if you listen to what I do and this is what you should do. However, you want to think about what is your goal of building your brand? Because sometimes the number of followers doesn't even really matter.

No. It's the engagement and it's the quality of the followers. Like you could have 300 followers but if those 300 people are obsessed with you

and will buy everything that you sell and will engage with all of your posts, that's amazing. Yeah. If I had 300 people that were obsessed with me,

I'd be out shooting a calendar to sell them. There you go. Not sitting here talking to you. I don't think I'm ever going to get 300 obsessed with me.

Well, not obsessed but into your stuff. I'm just not that handsome. I'm not that handsome get 300 and obsessed with me. What obsessed? But into your stuff. I'm not that handsome. I'm not that handsome. It's not about the way you look. But clearly, I mean, that show thought that you were. Yeah, that's true. They thought I was.

They thought you were. I had a by no means man candy. Not man candy. Boyish good looks. Boyish good looks. Slightly overweight. By no means man candy. I would lean into the boyish good books part.

I, you know, I'll lean into the brand. It's perspective. It's all perspective at this point. It is. So back to what we were saying. So anyways. Building your network. Building your network is going to help build your brand.

Give us some networking advice. Oh, yes. Because people are so terrible at this. Terrible. Terrible. Tell me, I'm going to give you my secret. Tell me your best things. Oh, wait.

I want to hear you first. Okay. And I guarantee you that we're similar in our mindset of networking. I like it. Because we're both people. Tell me, I'm going to give you my secret. Tell me your best things. Oh, wait. I want to hear you first. And I guarantee you that we're similar in our mindset of networking. I like it. Because we're both people. All right, good. So the first thing that I, like, if let's say you're going to go to a networking event, like I am actually an introvert. I don't like going to networking events.

So I have to gamify it. And I have to actually like give myself a goal. So I always have a goal when I go into any networking event. And it's like a game I'm playing with myself. So my goal usually is to like, okay, find the most interesting person in the room and figure out how you can help them. And it's always about being the most interested rather than trying to be the most interesting because people's favorite topic in the world is themselves.

And if you're introverted and you don't want to have to think about what to say, just focus on asking people questions and being interested in them and figuring out how you can provide value to them. Because the most important part of your connection or your networking is the follow-up and people follow up wrong all the time. They follow up with like, what's in it for me? What can you do for me? Or I'm bumping this up. Will you do this for me?

I'm bumping this up. Will you buy this from me? Just reminding, just pinging you on this. Can I get 10 minutes? Can we just, can I get 10 minutes to bend your ear? Oh, can I pick your brain? Please, if you're listening to this, never ever say, can I pick your brain to somebody? Follow up with value. Give. Your follow-up should be a give. And you should know what to give because you spent so much time figuring out what that person needs help with. This is the secret.

And I wish everybody knew this. The law of reciprocity is so real. And the best way to get everything that you want is to help everybody else get what they want. And it's not even just like a transactional situation because when you do things for other people, you feel good. It makes you feel amazing. I have two tricks. Tell me.

Trick number one is I love to network. I love to go to events where I can take my wife because every single hand I shake, my wife is sending me a text message with that person's name. Oh, that's powerful. And something about them that I know that I can go back and I never forget.

Yeah. So I love that. She's my wingman in that aspect. I love that. And number two, when I walk up and I say, hey, I never say, what do you do ever? I say, tell me about you. And then they start going to their elevator pitch of, well, you know, we own this company does this. But I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Not what do you do? Tell me about you. Are you married? You have kids. Where are you from? You know, no. Not what do you do? Tell me about you. Are you married? Do you have kids? Where are you from? You know, what brought you here? And people are like, it skips their brain because they're so just in that wheel

of let me get out what I do and let me pick up what you do and let me see if there's a connection, blah, blah, blah. But it's so funny to look on their face. It happens every single time I say that. Like you see this and I've run into people again that I met years ago and they never forget me because people think, in my opinion, the key to being a good networker is to have a great memory. And my opinion is it's more important to be unforgettable than whether or not you forget the people you're talking to.

And I find that little move to make me somewhat of it. And a great way to be memorable and to be someone that nobody forgets is to be genuinely interested in them. Because the person's going to leave them like, wow, that person really cared about me. Well, because here's the thing, too. Do you ever do business with people you don't like? No. Right.

So if I don't think that we're a good match as humans, well, I don't care what you do. Right. Like, I'd rather see that, you know, it's more important to me. Yes. That you've got two kids my age than it is that you've got the best widget in the market like because now you you you understand who i am as a person because behind every transaction is a human i love it let's go a step further so what i like to do is and i'm with you on that i'm finding out personal things about the person and so my follow-up is usually it's either like some kind

of uh like has to do with some kind of thing, what we were talking about in the moment, or if they've got kids, sending a gift for the kids. Yep. Sending something for the kids. Like, oh, hey, there's this amazing restaurant that's amazing for kids. Like right down the street from you,

I made you a reservation for tomorrow and like it's dinners on me. Or like I have like really beautiful gifts that I have made with kids' names on them and I'll send them right after. Or if I know that Johnny's soccer game that you told me, Oh my God, my kid's first soccer game is tomorrow.

Like I'm so excited. I got to leave here. Cause I got to get up early. Like I'll be texting. How is the soccer game? How did it go? Right. And like sending a little like trophy in the mail for Johnny,

right. That next day, like that's a powerful, memorable followup. You do something nice for people's kids. That's, that's what you got to do. I don't remember who said this.

I want to give credit. I'm going to say it was jimmy rex but but what was that someone knocking on your okay i don't know we just had a ghost i guess jimmy rex and so yes i've got him locked in the room next door so when he hears his name he just starts banging on the walls i'm not sure what that was that sounded no you know what that sound was for those of you listening at home if you want what is, that is the sound of something being paid for in the vending machine, not falling out,

and someone shaking. Yes. That's what that noise was. You knew what that was. I knew exactly. Well, I didn't. Yeah, that's just law. I'm deducing that's what it was

because I can't think of anything else on the other side of that wall that would have caused that much of a ruckus. I thought the TV was going to fall down. Anyway, so we'll give credit to Jimmy Rex for this, whether he said it or not. But I remember somebody was saying that they were, you know, it's not Jimmy,

because he doesn't have kids. Whoever said this, but they said their kid played like sports, like soccer or whatever it was. And they had a professional photographer come out and take pictures of their kid while they were playing and said, while you're here, go ahead and take pictures of everybody else's kids. That's cute. That's smart. And then sent these really professional, kid while they were playing and said, while you're here, go ahead and take pictures of everybody else's kids as well.

That's smart. And then sent these really professional, high quality pictures to everybody on the team. And every parent loved them for that. Yeah. They loved them because it was like, here's something amazing for your kid. And it really helped connect that way. So I agree with that. There's like, you don't always have to kick in the front door, man, when there's a bunch

of windows and a side door and all kinds of other places where you can find an interesting way to get in because everybody's trying to run to the front door everyone everybody extra miles never crowded no exactly i live in new york city so when you're i don't take the subway anymore but when i used to i always loved looking at there's always an escalator and a staircase next to each other and the escalator is always 50 people deep like so many people in the escalator like this, like they're so uncomfortable. The staircase is completely empty. Oh, yeah.

It's the greatest analogy of life. Just go up the stairs and it'll be fast and easy. You don't have to talk to anybody or touch anybody. But if you take the easy route, there's a bazillion people there. It's going to be a lot harder. I agree with that except for one exception. Tell me.

Those stairs at Universal saw Hollywood. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. Which ones? There's Universal Studios Hollywood. There's like a mile-long escalator that goes down. Oh, I don't know that one. I run those stairs at universal saw hollywood i don't know if you know i'm talking about but there's there's universal studios hollywood there's like a mile long escalator that goes down i run those stairs they're not fun my kids bet me one time you can't run up these stairs i'm like sure i can of course the end of it i'm about to have a heart attack and they thought it was hilarious right what are you gonna do what are you gonna do what are you gonna do temporary discomfort to make your kids laugh i get it i get it well jen man that's uh i mean

if you didn't get anything out of this, there's something wrong with you. I think we had a good conversation. Yeah, there's something wrong with you. I think this was jam-packed. Jam-packed. Jam-packed with gems and goodness as we go along. But guys, if they want to find more of you, how do they find you?

Easiest place to find me is Instagram, at Jen underscore Gottlieb, because I'm there. I'm in it. Like, I am in the DMs. If you want the book, go get the book. Be seen book.com. You can get it anywhere. Books are sold. October 31st is when it comes out officially,

but you can preorder before then. Hopefully this will come out that week. Yeah, that'd be great. I love this. This is so great. Thank you. Where are you speaking next?

Where can they find you? What events you have coming up? We've got our Dallas event coming up. Build your brand live October 20th, 21st and 22nd in Dallas. Dan's there, right? Dan will be there. Dan's there. Dan'sman he really is he teleports he's superman

he is it's crazy all right well jen thank you so much i was so tickled to have you on today it was worth the wait it was it was exactly as good as i thought it would and guys we will see you again next week so So tune in again. Take care, guys. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escapingthedrift.com. You can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, throw up that five-star review, give us a share, do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the

next episode.