Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - From Cards and Collectibles to Real Estate Riches with Abraham Gray

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

Abraham Gray, a transformative force in both entrepreneurship and poker, joins us to share his remarkable journey of founding over 100 businesses while mastering the art of private money lending. From his formative years in Miami, where he discovered his entrepreneurial spirit at 15, to transitioning from high-stakes poker to business, Abraham's story is a testament to resilience and ingenuity. This episode uncovers his ties to Buckhead, Atlanta, and his knack for identifying and capitalizing on emerging trends, revealing how early ventures in sports cards and Beanie Babies paved the way for more sophisticated business pursuits.   Listeners will gain a wealth of entrepreneurial insights as Abraham discusses how he scaled innovative ventures like escape rooms and axe throwing, leveraging a network of creative collaborators to stay ahead of market trends. His strategic mind shines through in his real estate journey, as he shares how he amassed wealth through baseball card sales by 19 and reinvested in real estate and lending. Abraham offers a deep dive into the world of real estate investing, detailing his approach to creative financing, cost segregation depreciation, and the benefits of operating under Georgia's conducive foreclosure laws.   The conversation doesn't stop there. Abraham opens up about the strategies behind scaling home service businesses and real estate flips, emphasizing the essential nature of trades like plumbing and roofing. He shares his hands-on experience managing a diversified portfolio and adapting to market shifts with astute business structuring. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a seasoned investor, or simply curious about the intersection of poker and business, this episode promises an enlightening and practical roadmap for success in the entrepreneurial world.   CHAPTERS    (00:00) - Entrepreneur Shares Secrets for Success (04:14) - From Sports Cards to Beanie Babies (10:27) - Discovering Trends to Scale Businesses (19:25) - Real Estate Investing and Tax Strategies (29:17) - Scaling Home Service Businesses (34:45) - Real Estate Investing Strategies and Portfolio (43:04) - Real Estate Lending and Foreclosure Strategies"   💬 Did you enjoy this podcast episode? Tell us all about it in the comment section below!    ☑️  If you liked this video, consider subscribing to Escaping The Drift with John Gafford  ************* 💯 About John Gafford: After appearing on NBC's "The Apprentice", John relocated to the Las Vegas Valley and founded several successful companies in the real estate space.   ➡️ The Gafford Group at Simply Vegas, top 1% of all REALTORS nationwide in terms of production. Simply Vegas, a 500 agent brokerage with billions in annual sales Clear Title, a 7-figure full-service title and escrow company.   ➡️ Streamline Home Loans - An independent mortgage bank with more than 100 loan officers. The Simply Group, A national expansion vehicle partnering with large brokers across the country to vertically integrate their real estate brokerages.   *************   ✅ Follow John Gafford on social media:   Instagram ▶️ / thejohngafford   Facebook ▶️ / gafford2   🎧 Stream The Escaping The Drift Podcast with John Gafford Episode here: Listen On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7cWN80gtZ4m4wl3DqQoJmK?si=2d60fd72329d44a9 Listen On Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/escaping-the-drift-with-john-gafford/id1582927283    *************   #escapingthedrift #abrahamgray #entrepreneurship #poker #privatemoneylending #buckhead #atlanta #trends #sportscards #beaniebabies #escaperooms #axethrowing #realestate #taxstrategies #homeservicebusinesses #flipping #portfolio #fixandflips #rentalinvestments #creativefinancing #foreclosurestrategies #hardmoneylenders

Not one person that can fix it. Like you need a house or a rep. There's just so many people that have to do it and no one's ever going to agree to fix it because it benefits all them because they all need it. Of course. It's never going to be fixed. It's going to be what it is. Yeah.

It'll get fixed right after they make it illegal for sitting representatives and Congress people to trade stocks. Oh yeah. The day that that happens, yeah, the tax code will get fixed next day. And now Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you want to path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the drift, and it's time to start right now.

Back again, back again for another episode of Like The Opening Says, man. The show that gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today in studio, ladies and gentlemen, I got a dude that, I mean, I don't know, man. Do I use the word baller too much? Do I use that word too much? I might. I don't know.

But this cat is a hardcore entrepreneur. He has founded over a hundred businesses. He buys them, he creates them, he's done it all. He is the cohost of the Private Money Lending Mastermind. So he's a master at raising capital, placing capital, making money on capital, or my favorite word, arbitrage, if you will. And he's here to share a lot of knowledge with you today.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the studio. This is Abraham Gray. Abraham. What's going on? What's up, dude? Oh man, it's cool to share a lot of knowledge with you today. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the studio. This is Abraham Gray. Abraham. What's going on? What's up, dude? Oh man, it's cool to be here in Vegas. I love that, dude. Love that you're here in Vegas.

Now we just mentioned you're from the ATL, of which I have some roots there. Back in the day, you live in Buckhead currently. In Buckhead. You know, I like to think that I'm the guy that killed Buckhead. I like to think that. Yeah, I heard the story. You might have, yeah. I think I I'm the guy that killed Buckhead. I like to think that. Yeah, I heard the story. You might have, yeah.

I think I'm actually the guy that killed Buckhead, if you think about it. And it was so funny. And that story, if you will. Well, you know, I'm not going to tell a story. We had a club there. I ran the club. Super Bowl came. A very famous pro baller who will go unnamed. Hey, Lewis, came to the club.

Some people got killed. Yeah. There was a murder trial. And at the end of the day, everybody kind of got off except for that club. It kind of just nuked the whole thing. Yeah. And that was the end of Buckhead.

It was the end of it as we knew it then. It is now transformed into a, the Rodeo drive of the South, if you will. For sure. Don't you kind of miss the dirty days with walking down, what was it, Bolle Way, what was the main drive there? There was a lot of-

Blue Loo's, Bates Shack, and Metropolitan Pizza, and all the old school stuff, the chili pepper dude, all the good stuff. Probably different now, so that's a few decades ago. Yeah, thanks for dating me, I appreciate you. A lot of the, yeah, you're pretty old. A lot of the you're pretty old Two years older than you my friend three three. Okay. All right. Yeah. Okay three years older than you there That's where we're going. I was born 75. Okay. I was born 72. Yeah

I'm tall. I'm taller. I'm taller than you are Okay, all right keep going yeah, no, so I actually used to live in Vegas for a couple years. Did you? I played poker. Nobody even knows about this, I don't talk about it that much, but I played poker here for many years. 2004, five, six, I was really big into poker.

And I played all the World Series events, all the WBT events. So I would just travel to all the big events where. And yeah, I was on a bunch of final tables and Did pretty well. So what got you into poker? I just got into poker probably maybe in the early 2000s and Started doing really good online and I was like man. I was killing it on party poker and poker stars and all that I was like, let's go and play like I'm

and Poker Stars and all that. I was like, let's go and play like on the casino. So I started playing tournaments at the casino, started doing really well, made a bunch of money. But the problem was it became a job. It was really fun in the beginning. And once you like do it every single week or every single day, it became a job and it was crazy hours. And I got really out of shape and just got back

into business. It was terrible. OK, let's talk about how you got into business in the first place, just in general. So tell me about where did you grow up? So It was terrible. Okay, let's talk about how you got into business in the first place, just in general. So tell me about, where'd you grow up? So I was born in Florida, Miami. I grew up there. I started my first business when I was 15.

And from that, it was sports cards. I was big into sports when I was younger. So I always collected cards, turned it into a business. From there, just grew from- Were you just trading cards like on eBay? Yeah, well, eBay just started back then. Okay. Did you have like a brick and mortar? What were you doing? No, I actually, so back then, protege, I mean, it was like a product, prodigy.net,

like before AOL, there was prodigy. So they have like boards on there where you could prodigy, prodigy. Yeah. So we used to, they used to have boards so you could buy and sell stuff. And that was kind of the first time the internet kind of really took off. And from there, I always did shows on the weekends. I would travel just from show to show the weekend events and buy and sell. And I started doing really well. What did your parents do? So I was never, I never lived with my parents for a while.

My parents, my mom, I hadn't seen really since I was maybe like eight years old or something at the time. Uh, she lived, um, she lived in New York, but I, you know, I was in Florida. We, I was a problem kid and I ended up like, ending up in a bunch of different foster families. I, uh, I had problems with school school, getting in trouble all the time. And my parents couldn't handle me. My parents got divorced when I was like one.

But I lived with my mom for a while, got in fights, then moved to my dad for a couple years, got in fights, then just lived with random people basically, and then boarding schools until I was 15 when I moved into my grandmother's house. And that's when I started the sports car. So obviously dude, that's a horrendous background. Like that's that's really hard on a kid.

Do you think that that now, looking back at it as a 52 year old man or 49 year old? You're 52. I'm 49. You're 49. If 50 is old, man, I'm not that old. Looking at it now as a middle aged man. City Cross, would you say that? I mean, obviously, it's terrible where you're going when you went through. at as it now as a middle-aged man, city crosser, would you say that, I mean, obviously it's terrible what you're going, when you went through, but that had to have just built this incredible force of resilience in yourself.

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, you learn a lot from it. I think that's what kind of got me to where I am today. Like, you know, I learned a lot and I did stuff based on that. So I think if that didn't happen, I'd be a totally different person and it worked out in my favor.

So I'm happy. But I think there's, I think the hinge point there is so many people would have an experience like that as a kid and some people do, right? And they use that as an excuse to underperform the rest of their life instead of fuel. So what do you think was the difference in you that made it turn into fuel instead of an excuse?

The difference for me was, first off, I was a really bad kid. Like in my younger years and even my teenage years, I was really bad. I was at a point where I was either going to be in jail the rest of my life or just be super successful. It was one or the other, depending on which way I went. It was for sure.

Or both at different times, if you want to go Wolf of Wall Street. No, 100% potentially. So I just, I really, when I was in boarding schools, I was always foster families. I didn't really have my freedom. I had to listen to whatever they said.

I was, you know, stuck. I didn't have, I just didn't like it. And when I started selling these sports cars, I started having some money. I was able to kind of do my own thing. I didn't have to listen to people as much. And, you know, that's what kind of got me going to where I was. I was like, you know what? If I have my own money, if I could not have to listen to people, I have my freedom. That's what kind of got me going to where I was. I was like, you know what? If I have my own money, if I could not have to listen to people,

I have my freedom, that's what I really wanted. And that's what pushed me to just keep going. I just wanted to be able to do whatever I want. And how can you do whatever you want? The more money you have, the more freedom you have, the less you have to listen to people basically. Yeah, that's a good, you know, it's funny. When you ask people what money means to them,

for you it means not having to listen to anybody else. Like my answer is like, what money means to me? It means time. Like I can, I buy time. That's what I buy with my money. You could buy time, but, but freedom is like the ultimate. Yeah. So ultimate freedom and time, the same thing almost. So you were selling cards at 15. Did you ever have a real job? Do you ever a job working for somebody else? I had one job in my life and it was one. I was 15. What was it?

I worked as a bag boy at a grocery store. But I was there for a little while. I started bagging groceries, bringing carts in. Then I ended up stocking. It was like I got a little bit of a raise, started stocking. And then I was doing sports cards at the same time. So I was making some money on sports cards, some money. And then I just started making too much money on sports cards.

Got rid of the grocery gig and just went full time into sports cards. Yeah. I like to think that all great entrepreneurs are to a certain level unemployable, like chronically unemployable, just cause they just cannot. Like you just said, I just, I authority has just never been something that you want to adhere to. You don't want people telling you what to do.

It sucks. Yeah, it does. So you're selling, you're flipping sports cards, doing pretty well. And what did that lead to? So in 1997, so this is back. I started let's say 1990 1991. So in 1997 something really really crazy fad came out called Beanie Babies and I was at baseball card shows and these middle-aged women would come in there with tables full of Beanie Babies selling them and I was like, why are they at a baseball car show selling Beanie Babies?

And before I knew it, like week after week, all of a sudden I'd see their tables were busier than my tables selling baseball cars. I was like, what the hell is this stuff? I got to learn it. I started off making fun of them. I'm like, wait a second, maybe there's something. So I kind of hang around their booth, started asking some questions. Where do they get it?

What are they selling it for? What's the profit? And, you know, eventually pretty soon I learned, I learned the business and I became the, probably the biggest Beanie Baby dealer in the country for many, many years. I was in Beanie Babies from 1997 all the way through like the early 2000s, 2003 or so, I want to get out. So that's trendspotting is what that is.

So is that something you've always had a gift for? Yeah, so I've been, basically my whole life, up until even recently, I'm always going into hot ads or hot trends and that's how I've made tons of money. I literally would pick whatever's really good at the time. Not being it forever, but being it for as long as you could possibly make a ton of money on it and then once that's dead, just move on to the next thing.

And I did that for a long time, until recently. So when you spot a new trend, or when you did before you did this, when you would spot a new trend, how do you accelerate your learning of it, what it is? How do you get into it quickly enough to where it's still viable? Cause the hardest thing with transpawning like that is,

yeah, you don't want to be the last guy at the table with all the chips in your hand. Yeah, so I have a few techniques of what I do. So obviously, I'm always looking for trends. I have like a whole like system of how to do it. But I always find a multiple and then I figure out which ones make the most sense. I'll go investigate them. Sometimes I'll go to other countries or other cities just to see how other people

are doing with those trends, because usually the trends start somewhere. Yeah. What's your system? Let's talk about that. That's not now I'm interested. Yeah. So but I would I would basically start up. I would try like four or five things out of the dozens that I see. And then the ones that do the best, I grow like crazy. And the ones that don't aren't so successful, I just shut down.

So your test. So any trend that comes up, you forgot a quick way to acquire whatever it is. And you can test out very quickly and then you dance with who brought you. Yeah. And then the up, you forgot a quick way to acquire whatever it is and you can test out very quickly. And then you dance with who? Brung. Yeah. And then the ones that don't do good, I just kill it soon. So I don't waste a lot of time or

money. And the ones that do good, I just exploded all over the place. But as far as how I find them, that's how what you're asking. So my system really at the time was going onto Google and searching all kinds of keywords like what's hot in America, what's hot in Asia, what's hot in Europe, what's hot on the keywords like, what's hot in America?

What's hot in Asia? What's hot in Europe? What's hot on the West Coast? What's hot on the East Coast? And then I'd have like maybe a hundred different phrases like that and I'd type them in. It would lead me down a rabbit hole of, you know, a whole bunch of different things.

And from there I'd find other shit. And then I would go ahead and research which ones make sense. Another thing that I would do is, when Groupon came out, that was a big one, I would go on Groupon, you can still do that today probably, I'd go on Groupon and say,

just see what sold the most in every city. I'd be like, all right, what's in Dallas, Texas, what's in New York, what's in Los Angeles? You know, I'd pick all the biggest cities first, then I'd go to small cities. Small cities actually can be really good because people have something good, but nobody knows about it.

And some people are just content with their one location so they don't grow it. So if I see something on Groupon that sells a ton of Groupon. Are you talking about products or experiences? More experiences than anything, but products could work also. So I just happen to do tons of experiences. But, um, like press. So I was one of the first people that had escape rooms in the United States. I was one of the first people by far that had, uh, X drawing locations in the United

States, uh, arts and crafts studios, all these different trends that got really hot in the beginning. Um, I found them early on either in other cities, other states. So like the X drawing, I probably had like, I was one of the top first five in the country. There's thousands, if not tens of thousands right now. Yeah. So I think the first two was like one in New Jersey. There was maybe one in Vegas, actually.

Those are the first ones that were here for over a decade, but there weren't any other. So I saw some in Canada and I went to Canada. I went and saw them. They did really well. I checked out the two. And you found this from Groupon? I found it from Groupon and from doing these Google searches. And another way that I find a lot of really cool trends is on Facebook. So I'm on Facebook, or really any social media, but Facebook is just what I use the most. And I'm friends with tons of people

and people post places they've gone, fun things they've done. And I saw one day a friend of mine in another state that went to an escape room. I was like, what the hell is an escape room? Is someone breaking in their house? Do they need a, and I figured out it's actually an activity where you go and you solve puzzles.

It was really fun. I never heard of it. And I went there, I flew there, I checked it out. It was, there was probably like only a couple dozen in the United States at the time. I was like, this is pretty cool. I gotta bring this to Atlanta. And then I looked in Atlanta.

There was a couple already before I started. And I was one of the first, you know, three or four in Atlanta. You know, now there's hundreds and hundreds in Atlanta just from a perspective. So what I did was what's different than me than anyone else that does this thing. Once I have one that does really well, I massively scale them. So I went from one escape room to 16, 17 escape rooms in like a few years where most people have one and maybe they open a second one, usually they don't. There's a few companies that open four or five, six,

but it's not that common. Same thing with the Axe drawing. As soon as I saw it, it made a lot of money, I opened a ton. The business that I made the absolute most money on was something that I did a different way, right? So I just told you a bunch of different ways I find these really cool concepts and trends. But another way that works really well is I have a network of people that I deal with. So different people that I buy and sell beauty babies to, baseball cards, whatever,

open-ac throwings with, or just people. So these are really creative people. They come up with other trends, sometimes stuff that I haven't seen. And we're always in communication talking. So when I find something really cool that I do that makes a lot of money, it does well in my state. I'll go tell like my network of a dozen people, like you should try in your state. And then we do it all together.

So the business that actually made the most money on was the jewelry industry. I had the first We Buy Gold store in the country. It didn't exist until I did it. I had the first WeBuy Gold store in the country. It didn't exist until I did it. And a friend of mine that we did other business with, that we shared different other things back and forth that we made really a lot of money on, was like, man, you should get into gold.

Like, it was like $300 last year, now it's $700. Like, it's crazy. I'm setting up at these hotels on weekends. I'm just doing weekend events. I put an ad in the paper and I'm buying, you know, X amount. I'm making like $1,500,000 a weekend, just buying gold at these. So it's crazy. People are just bringing it in.

Keep in mind, this was back like 2006, 2007, when the economy started to go down. People had a lot of gold. Yellow gold was going out of style. So it was all really good timing, but I was like, all right, I don't know anything about gold at the time I was into another fad called Webkin's. It's sort of like Beanie Babies. It's a stuffed animal. Anyhow, I think I remember this.

I made millions and millions of dollars on Webkin's. It was a really, really big fad. It was crazy. But I was still making a ton of money, but it was kind of down toward the end of the cycle of them, I could tell. And he's like, you should get into gold. I was like, well, I'm still doing really good webkins, but I see dying, let me come there in a few months.

We'll talk it over. So anyhow, fast forward a few months. I ended up meeting him. I went to one of his shows. I was like, holy crap. Like you're just buying a crazy amount of stuff. I didn't know anything about jewelry at the time. He's like, look, every time I spend a thousand dollars,

I'm making 3000. And he was buying like tens of thousands of dollars when I was there. I was like, holy crap, it's that easy? He's like, I didn't know I spend a thousand dollars, I'm making 3000. And he was buying like tens of thousands of dollars when I was there. I was like, holy crap. It's that easy. He's like, I didn't know anything about jewelry. Like five months ago, I learned all this since then. Just weighing the gold and the number testing and make sure it's real. So I was like, all right, cool.

I got to do it. So I was like, um, you know what? I'm, I'm interested. I want to do this. I see the proof of concept. You showed me like a couple of months of you doing this and making a ton of money. It's like crazy. Uh, so here's the thing. I don't want to set up at hotels every weekend, go to a different

hotel, spend a ton of money. So what he did is he spent a ton of money on newspaper ads and just advertise people to come to these shows. I was like, you know, that's a lot of work. You're reinventing the wheel every single, every single weekend. Why not stand alone store? Why not just open a store and like just have a store, advertise it. People keep coming to the same place. You're always there. He's like, yeah, I mean, I never thought of it, but like you could try it and see. So I was like, all right. So I just rented a space on a busy road, open the store, put a We Buy Gold store, advertise. Like literally within the first couple of weeks, I had lines of people coming in selling me their gold and literally at like 30% of what I could get for it. So again, they would

sell to me for 30 bucks. I'd get a hundred bucks for it. So again, they had sold to me for 30 bucks, I'd get 100 bucks for it. And they were like super thrilled. It was all stuff that they weren't wearing anymore. It was outdated, broken, whatever, it doesn't matter. And people needed money at the time. So now we're back in like 2007, 2008 when the recession started hitting

and everyone was losing their job. So I did that and I went from one store, like I opened a second store, like instantly within within a week, within a month I had like, you know, three other leases signed and within like the first year I had 50, 60 locations. And ultimately over, over the court, I did about seven years. So like within the first four years I had over 300 locations. She's yeah. about seven years. So like within the first four years, I had over 300 locations. Geez. Yeah. And these locations were making,

the worst locations I had, and these were really bad, so it was very rare, maybe 30, 40,000 a month profit, but like the best locations were 100, 150,000 a month profit. What are you, so I'm just curious, because now I don't know, what did you do with the gold? Do you melt it down?

What do you do? Yeah, so you'd buy all this gold. Do you have a smelter? Yeah, do you do? So you'd buy all this smelter. Yeah, more or less. So you'd buy gold and the really nice pieces you put aside and see if you could like sell them to a jewelry store for a little bit more than the gold and diamonds are worth. But 99 percent of it you would just send to a refinery.

They'd melt it down and they'd basically pay you what it's worth. So every single sitting you have to do, you were just shipping it off. Shipping it off, yeah. Brinks would come by every single week and pick up like tens of millions of dollars worth of gold and take it off at the refinery. Yeah, we ended up dealing eventually with the biggest refinery,

which was Johnson Matthew in Utah. And we actually went there and toured the place a couple of times, pretty cool. But they do crazy volume and that's where we ended up shipping most of our gold when we were doing it on a big sale. Off it. So I want to go back a little bit,

because we may have, now that we're buying tens of million dollars worth of gold, we may have outpaced some of the listers at this point. Like, oh, well yeah, I'll just go open a store and buy tens of million dollars worth of gold. Let's go back to the trend spotting. Let's go back to that. When you-

I gave you like five different ways how I- You did, you did, it was good. But each one was a different. Was different. But what I wanna know is, did you bootstrap all of those? First question is, did you bootstrap all that or did you go raise OPM? So I was fortunate enough to, in my baseball card days,

made a lot of money. So I was, when I was 15, I was making 40,, in my baseball card days, made a lot of money. So, when I was 15, I was making 40, 50 thousand a month, I mean a year, and then when I was 16, I started making almost 100 thousand a year just selling baseball cards. And by the time I was 17, 18, I was making a lot. And I was able to save over a million dollars cash

in my bank account when I was 19. So, I always had some money. money and from then my business just grew. So like I was making a lot of money every year in my early 20s. Well, let me ask you this as a teen, right? Dude, I cannot even imagine like that kind of money rolling in at that age. I mean, and not just like the fact that you accumulated a million dollars and didn't just go blow it in every direction. I mean, when you were first starting out,

I guess maybe coming from nothing, you were like, I need this big pot, like every dollar matter. You didn't go to the list. I didn't blow money, like I didn't waste money. Every money, every single time I made money, I would just reinvest it into other stuff that made more money.

I never blew money. So I never had fancy cars. I never had. Still? No, still, no. Still. I mean, I have a nice house, but unless um, you know, unless you come to my house, you wouldn't know. But I mean, cars, I mean, I've never had like,

never had like Ferraris, Lamborghinis, you know, just not like that. Yeah. I mean, I have, you know, decent cars, but they're not like exotic, you know? Yeah. Just not your thing. Not my thing. I, it's so funny, man, that like, you know, I guess each to their own and I tell everybody that does this because you know Dude, I've got a couple nice cars and that's fine But at the end of the day they are for me and everybody that I know that has a really nice car I'm like look this is gonna go one of two ways for you, dude Or you're gonna buy this thing and you're they're gonna feel nothing after a week or you're still gonna love it

Yeah So if you've never had a car like that Maybe go rent one for a couple days and just see how it feels if you really if you really enjoy cars and you have plenty of money, it makes sense to get it. I just don't care about cars. Like, I really like cars. I would buy like nice cars. I just don't, this doesn't do anything for me. So, okay. So where, where does your mind, what do you, what, what, what gets you? What, what's the thing? What do I do with my money? Yeah. Where's the joy? I mean, I, I like to see it grow. So that's what's fun.

So I invested into a few things. The three things that I put all my money into is real estate, more businesses, and a lot of lending. So I do a ton of lending, a ton of business, and a ton of real estate. And every single year, I own a lot more property. I have more businesses and I have more loans on the books. So those are the three things that keep growing. But I love martial arts.

I've been doing that for decades. So I'm always going. That doesn't cost any money. Not really. I own the gyms. So I make money off it. Just buy the places you like to go. That's it.

That's what I do. So I have to buy a golf course now. Damn it. Hey, they're available. You could buy them. What's crazy is people think that you can't buy stuff and because it's too expensive, but most of the stuff that I've bought, I've used none of my own money or very little of my own money.

Like it doesn't matter if it's a $10 million deal or a $5 million deal, whatever it is, you could buy these things without using your own money or, you know, there's lots of ways to do it. Yeah. It's so funny talking about real estate. It's always like what comes first, The chicken or the egg, right? People like, oh, I need to raise money or I want to get some investors. I can go do this. And it's like, bro, you get a good enough deal.

You're not going to have a problem finding investors. That's the key. If you go get the deal, go tie the deal up. And then trust me, if it's a good deal, you'll know. Anytime you bring someone a good deal, there's plenty of people out there that have plenty of money that want to invest and make money. If the deal is good enough, you'll find people to loan you the money. If no one loans you money, then you get out of the deal.

No, if no one knows your money means that you're the deal sucks. Exactly. That's what it means. That's all it means. Get out of the deal. Yeah. Well, let's talk about this because obviously you have a lot of cash heavy businesses and I want to, I want to lean this into, uh, obviously that's

probably one of the reasons you started real estate investing, I'm guessing. Well, I started real investing investing when I was 22. I bought my first property in 1998. I was making so much money in business. I had a friend that's like, why don't you start buying some property? First off, diversify a little bit. Plus, the tax write-offs, the appreciation, like, you know, it's 5, 10, 20, 30 years from now, you're going to have crazy amount of money, which I did.

So I still own a lot of the stuff from the 90eties and early two thousands and it's worth, you know, 10 times what I paid for it. So yeah, so it worked. And then the tax depreciation was, was a really big one. Um, especially now there's so many cool tax write-offs. That is the one. Yeah. That's the one. Do you do cost seg depreciation? 100% yeah. Cost seg appre, of course. Yeah. Um, yeah. It's so funny, dude, I didn't, I'm going to give you, I'll give you, I'll give you one. I don't know if you knew this or not. So one of my groups that I'm in,

we have probably the best cost seg dude in the countries in there that actually does them for like massive buildings, like whatever. I use someone like that. Yeah, and this came out of his mouth the other day and I couldn't believe this because somebody was buying,

they were buying 300 something units. They were talking about the improvements they were gonna have to do and they talked about the roof. And he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, before you do that, let me cost seg the roof because you can make bonus depreciation on the disposal of the roof you have

and then write off the new one. And we were like, what? For the one you throw in the dumpster, he's like, hell yes you can, it's in the tax code. I was like, that's wild. There's so many scams in these tax codes. It's crazy. If you just many scams in these tax codes. You know, it's crazy. If you just know everything that you need to know, you have a good accountant,

you could probably make a ton of money and never pay any taxes or very little. Yeah. I mean, it's it's again, there's what is it? There's 15 or 20 pages that tell you how you have to pay taxes. And then there's thousands that tell you how you don't. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. I remember when I was making the most money back in the gold days, the crazy things that all my accounts were doing

to where it's a hundred percent legal, didn't make any sense to me before, but now I understand it, where you could basically do all these crazy things and just, you don't have any, you know. Like, yup. You don't have to pay taxes. Here's your zero.

It makes no sense. So it's kind of a scam, but whatever. You gotta do it if that's what everyone else does. Yeah. I love that clip back in the day, not, not to talk about politics, but I just love that clip for about Dave Chappelle talking about Donald Trump and that first debate. And he's like, yeah, you know what? And you, I know the systems are because I use it and you won't fix it either. Cause the people that give you money use it too.

I don't think anyone could fix it because not one person that could fix it. Like you need a house or there's just so many people that have to do it. And no one's ever going to agree to fix it because it benefits all them because they all need it. Of course, it's never going to be fixed. It's going to be what it is. Yeah, it'll get fixed right after they make it illegal for, for sitting representatives and congresspeople to trade stocks.

Oh, yeah. The day that that happens. Yeah, it'll the tax code will good fix next day, which is never so let's go back to all of these little businesses that you have because eventually because you're running you were chasing fads at the time you were transpiring and At some point man that the cards go south on you the market turns your holding inventory So how do you how would you talk talking about pulling the ripcord out of a trend? Yeah, so you've got it. You've got to be able to see it. So obviously when it keeps going up, keeps going up, that's great.

At some point it levels off. And once it starts leveling off, that's when you got to pay really close attention to see when it starts dipping. So once it starts dipping, you got to have a plan to how to get out of it without losing too much. But you made so much up here that if you lose a little bit at the end, it doesn't really matter. But you've got to really understand where the market's going to die and how to get rid of it without losing the most. So I always figured out ways to sell the best stuff and get out of stuff. I have really good leases where I'm able to get

out of different leases with different ways. But yeah, I was just always lucky enough to not stay in it and be like attached to any one business and let it ride a whole way down to where I'm losing money. Cause that's stupid. That's where a lot of people do lose a lot of money. They're in this business, they're super attached to it, and they just don't want to let it go. I'll let something go easily.

I don't care. Well, I think that's something that people don't understand is when they go into lease a space for brick and mortar business that may or may not be viable, how important it is to not get a personal guarantee on that space. Yeah, not get a personal guarantee or if you have to put a personal guarantee on it, put it on for 12 months, you know, or six months. They don't put it on for five years, especially if it's expensive lease or something like

that. Yeah, people will get could get really screwed Yeah, I learned my lesson when I was really younger on that one I did do a personal guarantee on in my early 20s on one and yes I learned my lesson on that one so I don't do it anymore But I don't mind doing it for a certain amount of time because if you start a location You're not gonna leave in the first year, you know, you're gonna write it out even if it does bad typically Well, yeah, you don't want to be stuck to for five years. That's miserable. Yeah So it seems like now, I mean, you're kind of out, you're out of all of these

fad businesses, you're really pretty much. I mean, I still have a few fad businesses, but they're not like the fad. The fad on the businesses that I have aren't like super hot anymore. They're kind of like, you know, now just leveled off. But yeah, most of the businesses I have now are not fads over the last, like I've 10 years, I've started getting into just normal businesses that I'm kind of getting old enough to where I don't have you are getting old Right. Yeah, as well as you but no, I'm just saying that the grave is calling It's chasing behind you actually saw the Grim Reaper looking for you when you walked in

So I feel when you get to be this old, it's it's it's hard. You can feel it like I'm training I'm training with all these younger guys and and there's just so much quicker faster. Yeah. It's it's it's hard. You can feel it. Like I'm training. I'm training with all these younger guys and and there's so much quicker, faster. Yeah, it's taller. You start shrinking up. Yeah. So. But yeah, no. So you're hearing I've given this guy shit and he knows Jiu Jitsu or what? So she's going to kill me right here. Live on the podcast.

We do at the end. We want to do a match up. Yeah. So choking me out of the podcast. Not to say that it probably won't happen at some point, but I just would rather have it not happen today. I mean, if you start tapping, I have a good chance. I'm going to tap now. I'm tapping right now. I'm tapping right now.

Your wife is here as a witness. I'm tapping right now. There's no need to choke me. So we're back to your fat businesses. Yeah, no. So fat business. So I was super involved in fat businesses in my twenties and thirties. In my forties, I started getting more into like stuff that it's not really fat.

A lot of the stuff will just last for a long time. So now, now I have like home service businesses. I have, let's talk about that real quick. Cause trades are a buddy of mine, uh, just exited his roofing business. Yeah. Nine figures. I know a lot of people that, tons of the private equity, nine figures. Yeah.

So it's dude, it's the dumb stuff that makes money, man. Everybody wants to fly. What's the flashy? They all want the flashy. It makes money. That's all that matters. Dude, plumbing. Yeah.

Solid roofing. Solid. Everyone's going to need that crap. Everybody needs it. It doesn't matter. Yeah. So what's your favorite home services trade that you're in? Well, I have, I have some tree companies now that cut down trees.

So we're on the East Coast. So we're really busy. We're going to where all the hurricanes just hit. And crazy, like we used to do X amount a day. We're doing like four or five times that because there's so many emergencies. Everywhere. Work everywhere.

Everyone needs. Terrible. But yeah, I'm probably going to get more of those. But we've done other stuff like granite. So I have like a whole team, a whole bunch of teams that do all kinds of everything, whether it's painting, whether it's flooring, you know, I have people that can do anything. So, um, they mostly work on my own homes because I do so many fixing flips. But when I have extra time, then I'll put them on some other people's projects.

So, so you bought your verticals, your vertical integrated home flipping business. Yeah. How many flips are you doing? So in 2020, 21, I did over 200 each year. Uh, I would say like the market started to shift in 2023. So I probably doing about half that, but I still do, um, I still do a hundred a year, a hundred a year. So can you talk to me about the structure of your business to do that? So are you just at this point on top? Are you, you're not,

you've got acquisition people, you've got dispo people, you've got. So when it was super slam, the super busy 2020, 21, 22, I had everything, but now I've kind of, um, you know, downsize a little bit with, with the in-house team, cause I don't need them. I buy most of my stuff from wholesalers and I just have a lot of connections with others. I let them do the dirty work, sell it to me and whatever. So I don't want to have to manage acquisition teams and all that. But I get so much lead flow from all the people that know that I buy that I could buy enough.

But I do have a little bit of in-house team because I own a home best of franchise actually in Atlanta. But it's not that good anymore. Like it was. So I buy a home or two a month maybe from that. But the problem is don't you have to pay them a point on everything you buy? Pay them a lot. Yeah. Even if it comes from them or not. Yeah. But here's the thing. I, this not in my name, so I don't technically own it. Okay. Somebody else might need to cut this out. I don't know. We'll go with it. Let's get inside though. I don't. I don't own it like a paper.

I basically funded it for someone else. Got it. And they give me all the deals. Got it. Smart way. So the other stuff you're doing is completely separate from that as legally it should be. And I can testify to that in court. There we go. That's fine. If need be. No, I like that. So you're just still doing 100. What margin are you mostly in Atlanta? Yeah, only in Atlanta. I go like 50 miles north in Atlanta? Yeah. All in only, only Atlanta. So I go like 50 miles north, 50 miles south, 50 miles east, 50 miles.

So you could drive from one project to another. It could be two hours because it's going to be a hundred miles or so. Oh my gosh. But, but, um, Atlanta is big. So that's where I'm at 50 miles in any direction from, from the middle of Atlanta. I, I have two partners. So it's me and two other people. I'm in charge of all the underwriting, buying, negotiating with the sellers.

I'm the one that does all that. Once I buy it, I hand it off to one of my partners that does all the rehab. He's in charge of all the crews and all the rehab. And then my last partner is in charge of, like, you know, if there's legal involved, accounting, a dispo, selling the properties, dealing with the agents after we have them listed. Or, you know, we do buy a lot of properties that we don't want to rehab because either it's just not an area we like to rehab in,

or, you know, our crews are busy or whatever. And then we'll just, we have a dispo guy that will sell all our stuff for us that we don't want to rehab. And if they don't sell it, then we end up rehabbing it. But- And you own your crews? Yeah, they work for us full-time.

They work for you full-time. How many project managers do you have? So I have a partner that's in charge of the project managers and then I have one main project manager that's in charge of all the crews. But like each crew has its own project manager. And then we have at least one inspector that works full-time just going inspecting properties.

Yeah, that hits everything up. Have you had to change your buy box? Have you adjusted your buy box or you just buy less? I don't, I never adjusted my buy box as far as what I'll buy or where I'll buy it. What I might have- Don't let the spread. Yeah. That's what you might change.

So I might change like certain areas that I see aren't as hot I'll buy them at a lower, you know loan to value but the good areas I'll still pay all the money for it doesn't matter You know, the good areas are still good really good. How much of your margins gotten squeezed from 2021 to now huge huge Yeah, I'm making way less now on fix and flips than I was I was making You know, I was able I was able to make 40, 50,000 a home in 2021, 2022. Sure.

And I was able to buy, you know, 25 a month where now I'm buying 12 a month and I'm making 25, 30,000 a house. So I'm buying a lot less and I'm making a lot less. So yeah, you know, exponentially it's way less, but it's still good. When you're doing that at scale, do you guys have spec? You have spec, you have like house kits, this flooring, this carpet, this paint. So we make them all the same.

So we don't do new construction or we don't buy land. I only do fix and flips. Well, that's what I meant. But I'm saying you've got, here's our spec tile, here's our spec sink. Yeah, so every single house we do that is within, so in Atlanta, the average home we sell is like a 300 and some thousand dollar home.

So any home that we do that's, let's say 150, which is probably the cheapest homes that we do all the way to, you know, four or five, five, 50, maybe 600. We all have the same pain, same flooring, same everything. But then we do some million dollar homes, like maybe once one every month or two, we'll buy like this really expensive home that we'll do. I would buy more. It's just hard to get really good deals on them. And then those, obviously we have like a special designer come in and they know that particular area market and then we just go with what they say. But we have all our own, every single home we do looks the same as far as the interior and exterior

and paint colors and tiles and all that, you know, LVPs. Yeah, yeah, I got crushed in the high end here when the market, when the interest rates turned. When the interest rates turned, I got crushed in the high end here when the market when the interest rates turned and the interest rates turned I was sitting on Eight and a half nine million retail. Yeah, there were about five houses What year this is ten months ago? Okay. This is when the market when the interest rate changed We were sitting on that much inventory. Yeah, we're sitting on five houses worth about eight nine nine bucks Uh-huh, and I did good on one. So the one in Sedona we did good on.

Yeah. Seven figure went on that house, but the rest of them, we got murdered on. Yeah. So I don't, I don't do like too many, like it would be really hard for me to get murdered because I'm my average home is like a home that like is a starter type home that most people will buy. I don't do too many. I do one expensive home at a time usually once in a while To back when the mark was a little bit better, but like I'm gonna be really safe on those Yeah, dude, I'm the first person that was dumb to take that kind of exposure. We just it just We just had a lot of stuff kind of fall into our lap at one time

It was like we can do this and we can do a good job and we made some money on The first couple and everything was going good. It's like, let's buy some more and then the interest rates turn on. But yeah, you're right. I love, like Chris Cron says, he won't buy anything over the median price because he never gets caught holding cards. And fuck, that's good.

It's good. The other thing I do a lot of, so every single home that I buy that I fix and flip, I pay cash for every single one. I use my own cash for everything. But I do buy a lot of, uh, creative deals. I buy a lot of owner finance and subject to deals. And that's how I mainly build up the portfolio that I have, you know, on top of what I already have.

So I own like, you know, a little bit over 200 and maybe 20 properties or so. That's like locations. Some of them are duplexes or quads or 10, but actual like just addresses, 220 or so. And the way I grow those right now is Bailey Mason, just by buying owner finance and subject to them. So every single month, I'm probably buying about one a week that's a subject to our owner finance. So what's your buy box there?

I mean, obviously you got to have- I just need the cashflow as long-term rental. What's your minimum cashflow? There's no minimum as long as so there's six things I look at okay, and I look at them all on a scale and if one's really bad And the other ones just have to be really good numbers. So I Cash flow is obviously the most important. I want the cash flow, but I like for them the cash flow like 300 bucks But some I have cash for a lot more, some are break even. I even have some that are negative. The reason why I buy some negative ones

are because I'm buying it for way less than it's worth, so I could still sell it. Or maybe the interest rate's zero. I have a lot of zero percent interest. So I don't care if it doesn't cashflow, I'm building so much equity, and the principal pay down is so much every month. It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. So, you know, there's different things like that I look at. There's six things, right? So the interest rate's important. The amount that I'm paying for it, like compared to what it's worth is important. The cash flow, the balloon, if there's a balloon on it. So, when I buy subject twos, there's really never a balloon. But when I buy owner finances.

Five, 10 year. Yeah, it depends. You know, some people want sooner, some people want longer. So, the balloons are really important. I care about how much rehab is needed. When I buy these buy and holds, I prefer them to be as fixed up as possible because, uh, for a lot of reasons, obviously. But, um, and then the last thing is how much money is it going to cost me to buy this? Like my entry fees. So that, am I having to put down 10%, 5%, 20%?

So all six of those things I just said kind of work hand in hand if I'm buying it at a very low LTV then I don't mind paying a really high Entry fee or I don't mind, you know, maybe not cash flowing But if I'm paying all the money I'm paying a hundred percent what it's worth I need to make a cash flow or I need to have a really good interest rate or the camp you a balloon You know, it has to be longer. So all these things kind of plays So there's not like one particular thing, but I look at them all six together. What's your long-term rental strategy?

Do you have section eight mixed in then? I have some section eight mixed in, but section eight works really well in like lower income areas. If you're in like a medium or lower than medium income area, then section eight works really well. But if you're in like a medium or higher, I don't think section eight's that great in those.

The reason why section eight works so well is because you can buy such cheap homes and you can get like two percent rent. But everyone I know that makes a lot of money and it does that. They're buying like these homes. They're paying 60, 70 thousand. They're running it for fourteen hundred. You know, so they're you can't do that in the nicer areas. But I like section eight because you know the money is coming. There are some bad stories I have, but overall it's fine, I like it.

But I. I love section eight by the way, I think it's great. No, no, section eight is really good if you do it correctly. If you do it correctly and you buy the right types of homes. If you buy the wrong types of homes. And you put the right stuff in them. 100%, 100%.

I am just people that made a fortune on it. I know a lot of people that teach courses on how to make billion dollars doing section eight. But a lot of people just think, oh, Section 8 is great. So they can do it with anything. You got to do it right. Like, it doesn't matter any single business out there, anything that anyone's doing really good out there, there's a way to fuck it up and do horrible. It doesn't matter. You could be in the best thing, but if you don't do it right, there's people that lose money and everything. There's people that make it. And even the worst things where you think is horrible,

there's the best people in that industry are going to make a lot of money. So it's like, is Section 8 good? Yeah. If you know you think is horrible, there's the best people in that industry are going to make a lot of money. Yeah. So it's like a section eight good. Yeah. If you know what you're doing, um, it's great. If you do it all wrong, yeah, you could lose. Yeah. I problem. Let's talk about this. Cause man, that's a big portfolio to have. 220 doors is a big portfolio. And when COVID hit back in 2020, did, did you have a fear that

like, Oh shit, I got 220 doors. People are gonna stop paying. Did you have a fear that like, oh shit, I got 220 doors. People are gonna stop paying. No, not really. No. Um, so I, I own a good bit of it free and clear. So I don't even have mortgage payments on a lot of it, but, um, I just have, I, people have to live that. I mean, most counties, you could kick people out pretty fast and COVID.

It was a lot harder, but, um,. But there are like three counties in Georgia, in Atlanta that are really tough. If people don't pay, they're like super, super, like they want them to stay as long as possible, even if they're not paying. So those counties I get a little bit worried on. So those, you know, I try to not buy as much. Board of County.

Yeah, those three counties that are really bad in Atlanta. But all the other counties, if someone doesn't pay, I mean, that's stealing. They just kick them right out. You go to the judge, you go to the court, they kick them right out. It's like, I don't understand how someone could just stay for a year and not pay. How is that legal? Like if someone's hungry, can they go to the grocery store and steal? And apparently, yes, in California, you can do that. Not in the rest of America. But from what I see on the interweb, I guess in California, that is legal. That's a little crazy, but whatever whatever that's why I'm not in California. So it's nuts. So

Let's talk about private money lending because you obviously you put your own money to work Yeah, and I and I've obviously so here's the gift three other partners on this and the private money No, no, no, no, no, I'm talking about your houses cuz I was gonna say it's on my fix and flips on your fix and flips, right cuz like An agent here came to me a couple weeks ago and was talking about a deal he just did. And he was like, yeah, you know, I took this house down to a million bucks. We're going to, you know, did this and it's going to be worth this. And I said, okay, cool. I said, what's the deal structure? And he goes, well, the guy that's doing the work is he's going to do it at cost plus 10. I can see everything, and then we're gonna split the money.

I go, okay, cool. He goes, yeah, I put the down payment down, and I lever, I go, okay, cool. What did you charge for your money? And he went, what are you talking about? And he goes, well, no, I took the deal. And I go, whoa, if you would have borrowed the money, would he have still done the deal?

And he's like, yes. I'm like, then there's gotta be a cost to your money, dude. Like, you gotta build some of that. So if you said a lot of the stuff you own own free and clear you're bringing your own money the table You charge money you charge your partner's cost for that money or no Well, we'll keep in mind on the buying holds. I pretty much own that all that most of it, right? But the flips you're financing to I'm financing but my partner is put in an equal share Okay, so you are levering the fix and flips. No. So let's say it's me and two other people.

Let's just say we all own a third each. If we buy something for a million dollars, we're all putting in $333,000 of our own money. Okay. So everybody's just splitting their own money. Yeah. Yeah. Luckily my partner's all done good over the years. I've done lots of stuff with them.

We all have plenty of money. So it's not like, yeah, but if they needed to borrow the money, you're a hundred percent right. I would charge them. Okay. Got it charge them. Okay. Got it. Okay. Cool.

Got it. Let's go back to private money lending. Yeah. So obviously you're lending on your own deals. So when did you start lending on other deals? And let's talk about that. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, to some degree I've done it for over a couple of decades.

I've loaned some people here and there, but like one-off stuff. I started making it like a much bigger business, probably like five years ago, or I started making it like a much bigger business probably like five years ago Or I started loaning more people and then probably over the last three years I've got where you know, I have over a hundred and some people that I'm loaning money out to at all times I actually use probably half my own money and half investors money So starting I would say last year about a year ago. Did you did you give a reg D fund? I have I do have a Reg D fund? I do have a fund, yeah. Okay.

So I have a fund, but I do it a couple different ways. So I have people that put money in the fund, and then I actually have people that go directly on the security deeds or deeds of trust, and that's how they're protected. Yeah, just do it in tranches, yeah. So I do it both ways. Works out really well. So right now I have probably go to the front for those. So I do it both ways. It works out really well.

So right now I have probably close to like $20 million out in loans and probably maybe 35, 40% is mine now and the rest is just investors. And what deal structure are you looking for to loan money into? I only loan for fix and flips in the Atlanta market. First position? Yeah, 95% first position. I do have some second position, but it's like, you know, that's not what I'm really looking for. Yeah, gap funding is tough.

There's some second position that makes sense. So I'll do them. Well, yeah, first position loans, really Georgia in particular, but- What LTV? I loan basically up to what I pay for it. So if I, there's nothing in Atlanta I won't buy. Like there's not a property that I won't buy. It's just a matter of what will. Yeah, so if they screw it up, you take it over. I just take it over.

So out of thousands of loans I've done, I've had to start the foreclosure process, I don't know, maybe like 15, 20 times, and I've only had to foreclose on two. So there's only two properties so far that I've actually taken back that I've sold at the foreclosure auction, but I made more money on them.

As soon as they sold, I ended up buying them myself and just made an extra 25,000 on each one. I have had where I've, uh, I started a foreclosure process and people were like, look, I don't want to get foreclosed on, let me just give you the deed. And I made more money on those. Um, and stuff like that. So, you know, I don't like doing that cause I'd rather just keep getting the interest, but I know I'm going to make more money at people unless the market

just drops in half overnight, but I have, you know, stuff in place in case that happens. What are your standard terms you're lending on right now? So I am lending at one and a half percent a month. So for every 100,000, I loan you your stone's paying me 1500 a month. They pay me monthly interest every month. And then my investors, I'm paying like 10, 12 percent a year. So let's just say I'm paying 12 percent. So I'm paying for every 100,000. I'm paying my 10, 12% a year. So let's just say I'm paying them 12%. So I'm paying for every 100,000,

I'm paying my investors a thousand bucks and then I'm charging 1500. So I'm making 500 bucks on every 100,000. Any points up front? Yeah, I charge a half a point. And that's just because I go inspected and do a few things. Yeah, that's super fair. Yeah, so a lot of people are like,

well, my hard money lender's only charged me 1% a month. I'm like, all right, cool, but you're paying three points up front. And if you want, I'll charge you three points up front and then charge you 1% a month too. I will do that also, but everyone ends up paying more that way because most people, most people are out of the deal in six months or less. And if you're paying three points up front and 1% a month, uh, you're end up paying more money,

especially if you get appraisal fees and origination fees. That's super fair, dude. I mean, we just had a guy come to us for 2 million. We're going to charge him 2 points and 15% here for 16 months. Yeah. And that's, that's probably similar to what I'm doing. If you, you know, more points, less interest. I mean, it all comes at the one half dozen, the other. So yeah, that's the type of thing I do, but I do it all in Atlanta. I only do Georgia. The reason why I picked Georgia, first of all, I'm there. I know the market, but also Georgia has like the most friendly, um, laws in, in the country. So it takes 30 days to foreclose in, in Georgia. You just have to put the ad up in the local newspaper.

I think there's 159 counties in Georgia. So every county has their own newspaper. You have to put the, the, um, that you're, that you're, you know, gonna foreclose in there for 30 days. And then the first Tuesday after the first Tuesday of the next month, after those 30 days, you can foreclose. So if you time it right, it can be 31 days and you can foreclose. If you time it wrong, it could be 60 days. But between 30 and 60 days, you can get any single property off the books. And then there's something called usury laws, which is how much you're allowed to charge people. Yeah.

So it's not predatory lending. And Georgia, it's 60 predatory lending and Georgia at 60%. So 60. Yeah. Six zero. Yeah. I only charge like 18, 24 on the really high side. So I'm super low.

Yeah, that's way under it. But there's a lot of states that are like 18%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of states that are 20, 40. There's a few states that have no user laws. You charge wherever you want.

Yeah. But so just Georgia works out really well. You could try. I really well. I'm never going to charge more than the usury. The only time I charge 60% is for late fees. For late fees, I do charge 5% a month. But besides that, most people aren't late. If they are, it's very little. People don't want to be late because I'm loaning them an amount that they have so much equity that they would be stupid to let me take the property over. Yeah. Well, you know, it's like I was one of my favorite things. Equity doesn't go to foreclosure.

Yeah, exactly. It really doesn't. It just doesn't. Very rarely. In no case because somebody's going to do something to get that done. People that have no idea what they're doing, potentially. Like homeowners that live there, they have no idea what they're doing, potentially. Not someone that's in the industry, you know?

Oh, so I disagree with that. I think a homeowner that doesn't know what they're doing potentially. Not someone that's in the industry. Oh, I disagree with that. I think a homeowner that doesn't know what they're doing, if there's equity and it's on the foreclosure log, there's 30 people knocking on their door. There are 30 people. Zero chance it goes across the street. You're 100% right about that.

That's how we buy so many good deals. Yeah. But I'll tell you, I've seen a lot of these people be so stubborn where they just let the house go. You've seen that too. You've had to have seen this. I don't know. I don't know that I've ever seen equity go crazy. Unless somebody have seen this. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know that I've ever seen really.

I see it all the time. Unless somebody died and the kids just don't know what the hell's going on, which that happens. That happens too. That happens. There are people that are so stubborn, so prideful. Like you're like, look, let me help you out. Let me give you some money.

They're just like, no, no, no. They just want to listen to you because they think you're, you know, I don't know. They think they're too good for you. Part of the machine. Yeah. So there's people like that. You know, they're idiots, but I see that. To part of the machine. So you mentioned that you've got other people

that have come to you. So you teach people how to raise private money. Oh, totally. Yeah. So there's so many people that asked me how to do it that I started doing these masterminds about a year ago. And at these particular masterminds, I do five, three a year. And probably like a hundred people that come.

And I teach from A to Z, it's two full days that I teach every single thing about how to find people that need to borrow money, how to find people that have money that want to put in it, how to underwrite deals, how to do all the paperwork to where you're safe, what you need to file, what type of data trust you need and promissory notes, title insurance, all these different things. Anyhow, it's two days of just going through and then a lot of underwriting to making sure that people know how to underwrite a deal and make sure that they're loaning the right amount and not

learning too much because you can do everything right. But if you loan somebody more than it's worth, you're never going to get paid. Yeah, yeah, not a problem. So, I mean, that's so interesting because a lot of people, there's some that's probably thinking, oh yeah, probably my lending, I don't have millions of dollars to because a lot of people, but there's some of this probably thinking, oh yeah, private money lending, I don't have millions of dollars to lend.

You don't have to. No. So I have people that do this that I've taught that have millions and millions and millions of dollars out. It's none of their own money. Zero. Yeah. They're just making a fee

for basically connecting the dots for people. That's all it is. Bringing the world together, being a connector of people, that's what it is. Exactly, exactly. And I do it in a way that everyone's safe. Everyone pays me the monthly interest and I pay everyone monthly interest. So every single investor that I've had for years now, years and years and years. Now they get every single month before the first of the month, they get, you

know, a wire or some people want to Zelle or whatever, but either a wire or Zelle. I think everybody, everybody gets every single month. I love that dude. That's awesome. Well, dude, Abraham, you are killing it. My man, you are balling out in ways Abraham, you are killing it, my man. You are balling out in ways that, you know, for a man of your age, which is really surprising that you still have the cognitive ability

to do all these things is shocking to me. But yeah, there you go. He's going to choke me out down. No, we're not choking me out. I'm just kidding. No, that'd be fun. That'd be a good ending. No, it would not be a good ending. It'd be a permanent ending to this show. It'd be an absolute permanent ending. Well, dude, look, man, yours, dude,

if they want to find more of you, how do they find you? Where do they connect with you? I mean, so I have a YouTube channel. You can go to Abraham Gray, G-R-A-Y, and check stuff out there. Obviously, follow me on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, all these places, and reach out to me. I answer everyone's message.

If you have deals you want me to buy or loan, I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out.

I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. I'm gonna be happy to help you out. obviously follow me on Instagram, Facebook, you know, LinkedIn, all these places and reach out to me.

I answer everyone's message. You know, if you have deals you want me to buy or loan on or you're looking for stuff. Yeah. Hit me up. I'll give you my email address. Abraham at MMAATL.com. Send me, send me whatever you want. Send me the deals.

Send me the deals and we'll talk. I answer. I'm pretty fast on my emails. I'm pretty fast on answering all my messages. I love it. I love it, dude. Listen, if you think you're going to be able to get a lot of people to listen to you, you know, you're going to be able to get a lot of people to listen to you. You're going to be able to get a lot of people to listen to you. You're going to be able to get a lot of people to listen to you. You're going to be able to get a lot of people to listen to you. Send me the deals. Send me the deals and we'll talk. I answer, I'm pretty fast on my emails. I'm pretty fast on answering all my messages. I love it.

I love it, dude. Listen, if you took nothing else away from this today, like nothing else away, take this. This is a dude that really kind of raised himself from eight years old on and look at what he's become. Fuck your excuses, man. You don't have any. Go out and get it.

We'll see you next time. What's up everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escapingthedrift.com.

You can join our mailing list. But do me a favor, if you wouldn't mind, throw up that five star review, give us a share, do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.