Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - From Employee to Entrepreneur: Mark Savant on AI, Podcasts, and Unlocking Success

Starting point is 00:00:00 I have found when I'm DMing people on LinkedIn saying, hey, Mr. CEO, Fortune 5000 company, love what you're doing over there. Would love to talk to you about your growth mindset on my podcast. Boom. You've just made a connection. I found that a dramatically high percentage, about 55% of those people that you reach out to, they're going to come on. And now escaping the drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be.

Starting point is 00:00:28 I'm Jon Gafford, and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the drift, and it's time to start right now. Back again, back again for another episode of the podcast. It gets you from where you are, man, in life to where you want to go. Today, remote, not in studio, but it's okay because we're still going to be bringing the heat, man. I got somebody that if you are somebody that has to deal with marketing, you want to deal with marketing, you use AI, you want to get better, or you want to do what I do, man, you want to do this podcast deal. I got a guy that can help you. He is the grand poobah founder, CEO, chief, big man in charge at Mark Savant Media.

Starting point is 00:01:18 There's a little clue as to who it might be. Has his own podcast called After Hours Entrepreneur. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program. This is Mark Savant. Mark, how are you, dude? What's up? What's up? Glad to be here, brother. What's going on? Good to see you, man. Thanks for coming on. Always good to have a fellow elite level podcaster on the show with me. I always like to hear tips and tricks in that arena. But again, man, you're a guy that has found a lot of success in marketing and everything, but I'm kind of curious because I always like to start with the nature versus nurture thing. Obviously, you're an entrepreneur at heart. It's what you do. Is this something you learned from your parents? Is this something that kind of was in you? Tell me about the background. Talk about young Marc Savant. Let's get the origin story, if you will.

Starting point is 00:02:00 You know, it's funny because I spent the first 35 years of my life as an employee. It was only over the last several years that I became an employer, but it's funny how life leaves clues. I think back in my dad building up his insurance agency from scratch, waking up early, staying up late, making calls, driving it. And I think that's kind of ingrained in me a little bit. And there was a specific moment, John, I remember I used to play baseball and I had this one coach and this coach would, in my opinion, I was the best player on the team, but he wouldn't give me the opportunities I felt that I deserved or should have had. And I was like, I do not want my success or failures dictated by someone else. And that is why I really love entrepreneurship. It's either you burn the boats, you go for it, you focus on results and you either make it or you don't. So I love the meritocracy that lives behind podcasts as a whole. That brings that. As a kid, where did you grow up? What part of the world?

Starting point is 00:03:00 South Florida, baby. South Florida. Oh, okay. You've been living in Florida your whole life? Yeah, I think you could say that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my family traveled around a little bit, but I've been a South Florida boy my whole life, man. We got the beach. We got the reef. People are just now figuring out that South Florida is the place to be. You got Fort Lauderdale, Miami, Keys. It's a nice place. We're going to see how well we're going to get along here pretty quick. I got to ask you a question before you're from Arkansas, where we're going to get along here pretty quick. I've got to ask you a question before we're going to get along. So you're from South Florida.

Starting point is 00:03:28 Who are you for? And I know you know what I'm asking when I ask that question. Who am I for? Are you talking about political, sports? I'm talking about college football. Who are you for? That's what I'm asking. Oh, well, so this is a tough one.

Starting point is 00:03:41 I'm an FAU fan because that's where I went to college. I went to University of Florida Atlantic. So it's not all about the U for me. Okay, good. Okay, that's a safe bet. I'm a Florida State guy myself, so that's a safe bet. Good. FAU. So yeah, rep to school, man. I like it. That's solid. What is that, the house? We hit a final four in college basketball two years ago. So yeah, we're coming. I'm making it happen. Did you just suffer through a couple of years? Was that FIU or FAU that suffered through a couple of years of Willie Taggart coaching the football team? Which one was that?

Starting point is 00:04:12 Was that you guys? I don't think that was FAU. No, no. That was FIU. Okay, cool. All right. So we got that out of the way. That's lovely. You live there in sunny South Florida, which is awesome.

Starting point is 00:04:29 Yeah. So, again, when you grew up, grew up South Florida, that was cool. Were you a good student? I would say I was a good student. Yeah. I got good grades, did all that. But after high school, I kind of floundered. I didn't do well in college after that. I had too much freedom. And that's, I think, another important part of my personal journey, John, has been discipline, putting the systems in, reading atomic habits. How do I make my bad habits more difficult? And how do I make my good habits more easy? Make the good things easy, make the hard things harder. I'll give you an example. You want to work out early in the morning. I lay out my workout clothes, my socks, my shoes. It's all laid out beforehand. So when I wake up, I don't have to bother my wife. Just go

Starting point is 00:05:10 out, put it on, go for a jog. So I think that's been a big part. That was probably, I think, my biggest struggle was putting the processes and systems in place to stay disciplined. I think that's what so many people... I think that's the difference between what makes a great entrepreneur and what makes people that have to be employees is the ability to manage your own time because it is very, very difficult. My son, one time I asked him, what do you want to be when you grow up? And he said, I want to do what you do. And I said, well, what do I do? He goes, you're the boss. And I said, okay, why do you want to be the boss? He goes, because nobody tells you what to do. I said, okay, why do you want to be the boss? He goes, because nobody tells you what to do.

Starting point is 00:05:46 I said, okay, you want to know what the hardest thing about being the boss is? He said, what? I said, nobody tells me what to do. It's the best part and the hardest part at the same time. So being able to manage yourself is very difficult. When you graduated from college, what was your job trajectory? What was that like? Oh, gosh. My job trajectory was basically wasting time and partying with my buddies and my friends. And I spent my entire

Starting point is 00:06:15 life doing the school thing and I'm done with it. I'm just going to goof off. And it's kind of funny. I was listening to your show. my 20s i i think that i kind of squandered them to an extent my 20s were just like you know i i didn't want to buckle down it's one have fun and smoke and drink and play and do this sort of thing um but you know i recognize that as one of my flaws as well like i just i'm attracted have an addictive personality, although I don't want to breathe life in that. But I found a woman, a girl who was very much the opposite, very disciplined, very rigid. And it's difficult at times because she really holds me to account. But I told her, this is the reason I married you. This is the reason I love you because you helped me shore up my weaknesses. And I think, at least for me, finding a partner who is able to challenge me and I respect

Starting point is 00:07:07 enough to allow challenge me really has made all the difference in my endeavors. So you mentioned atomic habits when you kind of went from being a floundering 20-year-old, which again, I always say my 20s, I did a lot of really, really cool stuff. I just don't know if it was the right stuff. Probably. The memories of a lot of it are very cool, but financially, you know, I probably like, dude, in my early 20s, I was banging my credit out. Like it was my job to do that.

Starting point is 00:07:36 Like it was my, like it was a mission. There was some sort of a prize you got for demolishing it. Just doing a bunch of stupid crap like that. But I think that as you go along, right, getting again about accountability, talking about that. So you read Atomic Abyss, which you did. You just try to get ahead of your stuff. Like when was the moment when you said to yourself, like, dude, I got to figure out how to be non, how to stop being a procrastinator and get better at the game. What did you, what was that moment like? Was it a general malaise of things or was there one thing where you're like, fuck, dude, I got to pull this

Starting point is 00:08:08 together and then what did you do? Well, it's funny. I think the big moment for me was having kids because when I had my daughter, she's now eight. When I had my daughter, I was like, who is she going to be looking up to? Am I just going to be the regular guy in the regular house doing the regular job, the nine to five, which by the way, if in Gary V talks about this all the time, like I was waking up every Monday is like, and I was like, Friday, let's go. You know, in that type of bout, like he's, he's a hundred percent right. If you, if, if when I was waking up and I was not excited about the day, it was broken. But now that I can wake up, I have an exciting project. I'm launching a new show.

Starting point is 00:08:47 I'm building out a funnel. I'm helping a client fix some data and some problems that they're getting with their YouTube conversion rates. And it's like, okay, now this is exciting. I'm leading a team of five, six, seven, eight people, a bunch of freelancers building out these systems. We have, in my opinion, the go-to premier podcast booking solution for turning guests into sales partners. It's unbelievable. So when you wake up and you're fired up about something, that's where you want to be. You don't want to wake up and be like, oh, I got to go into work and my boss is going to yell at me. My client's going to be pissed at me.

Starting point is 00:09:20 And it's like, no, I don't want that. No. Well, I do want to say, I'm not one of those guys that says everybody should quit their nine to five because there's a lot of fulfillment that some people find within their jobs. And if you work in an environment that constantly challenges you, you find personal fulfillment and great. I mean, that's, that's wonderful for you. But if you're in a scenario much like yours, I mean, I think you got to seek something else. Personally, I like to say that, that myself, I have a condition. I was chronically unemployable. And what I mean by that is I'm a miserable follower. I am constantly someone that is going to question every decision as to if I would do that or not. And it was one of those things where I just had a really hard time taking orders taking marching orders from others and i mean yeah dude i worked in corporate america for you know years and then you know just doing different

Starting point is 00:10:10 things and and dude i was just always better left to my own devices and well i just go ahead that really rings true to me i just got back from patch up at david's vault conference it's a huge conference down here in south florida and we spent the first full day so he goes through all these different training materials the entire first day was getting to know yourself right worked it was four hour session lunch break four hour session lunch bake four hour session break for the day plus homework the entire first day of this conference was knowing yourself are you going to be a ceo you're going to be an entrepreneur you're going to be an entrepreneur you're going to be c-suite are you going to be a support guy you are support in to your point man knowing this idea of being

Starting point is 00:10:54 an entrepreneur and being your own boss like it's it's great but there's a lot of stress that goes along with it and you know really only entrepreneurs totally get that you know yeah i mean like what was it somebody said one of my buddies said if you're not willing to burn it down and go work at mcdonald's at least once a week you're not on for dory hard enough you're not stressing it out far enough if you're not willing to burn the book if you're not willing to just just call it quits but no but we don't and i think that there's a difference between being that early level entrepreneur in a business and when you're trying to spin it up and then when you start to get at scale. And if you can just

Starting point is 00:11:28 get over that first hump of when you are employee one and maybe you have employee two and employee three, because you can start scaling out of your weaknesses through other people and really focus on what you love to do and what you're good at. And I think that's probably what Patrick Badebo was trying to get at with you guys the first few days is not necessarily you can do this today because if you're starting up a business, you may not have the capital to go out and hire COO, CMO, all of those things. But you may be in the EOI system, you may be the visionary and you might need an integrator. I mean, that's just how it is. Me, I find myself wanting to be an integrator. Like I want to be

Starting point is 00:12:07 the guy that checks the boxes and gets things done. But I, but at the end of the day, I'm the visionary. I'm the guy that says, you know, I'm Steve jobs. We're going to invent the iPhone. I have no idea how to do it. I'm going to hire all you idiots, not geniuses, sorry, not idiots. And you're going to figure it out. And that's kind of how, how it has to be done. And, and I just, I wonder I wonder how you're growing your business that way. Have you started to scale yourself out of your weaknesses while maintaining a focus on your core competency? That's certainly a part of it. That's certainly a big part of it, John. And like you said, it's tough because right now my business does three different things,

Starting point is 00:12:44 really. I have a fractional CMO that I'm working with clients on. I'm specifically optimizing podcasts for sales teams and seven-figure business owners. And then I'm also doing YouTube management. But what I found is that there's a lot of synergy between them. I've already cut off several different things. I don't want to go off on a tangent here, but... No, no. Tangent's good. That go off on a tangent here, but- No, no, tangent's good. That's where the good stuff is, tangents. I recognized about a year and a half ago, two years ago, that we're going through a very, very, very special time when it comes to technology and AI and large language models

Starting point is 00:13:16 and generative AI. So I was like, this is freaking crazy what I'm able to do it and at the cost of being able to do it. I mean, I was able to replace an entire, basically an entire position, an entire copywriting position, just because we were starting to use these AI copywriting tools. Then I bring someone in, they were able to write 10 blog articles in the time that it took them to do one blog article in the past. So we just saw profits and efficiency increase. By the way, all that AI stuff is way faster than it is now and way more accurate. Like it's every day something happens.

Starting point is 00:13:46 So I got kind of obsessed and allured over to that, but I realized, you know, I don't want to get too far away from my core competencies. We're going to use AI. We're going to test it. I'm going to empower my team with it. I'm going to try it out. But anyway, we've just seen a lot of results

Starting point is 00:13:59 with customization and scale. You know, it's just, man, I could just really go off on that. But what I really like though is working with business owners that know who they're serving. They've got a proven offer. They just need to kind of clean up all the marketing workflows, streamline it and hit the gas. And once I saw that result with clients, I was just like, we got to stay on that. So what was the job before you started this? What was the corporate job? What were you doing? I was doing insurance. I was doing insurance. So when I graduated, I went to work for my pops.

Starting point is 00:14:31 I didn't have a great... I just couldn't find the right job. He's like, hey, why don't you come work for me? And I took the lazy, like, okay, yeah, let's get on. Paid good, flexible, nice to work with family. So I saw a few things in the insurance agency and one of which was there was less business coming in directly to our office more and more coming in online and so i was like you know we might this this job landscape is going to be changing very very quickly you know and now call centers are all going to ai so the world is changing very quickly so i want to make sure that i was positioned for something that that i enjoyed fell in love with podcasting but you might like this within within a week of launching my first show, I had Trent Dilfer, Super Bowl

Starting point is 00:15:08 winning quarterback on my podcast. I was like, this is pretty freaking cool, dude. I'm getting access. Then I was connecting with NFL stars down here in South Florida, presidential candidates. I was hobnobbing it with the mayor. I was able to get a big roofing permit approved for our community because I knew the mayor in the city. I was like, this podcast thing is pretty real. And leveraging those relationships and leveraging that halo effect is really what it's kind of got things off for me and for my primary clients I'm working with. No, dude. I tell people, people ask me all the time, like, why do this? And they're like, why do you do it? Do you make a bunch of money doing it? I'm like, we do okay.

Starting point is 00:15:47 You know, it's great. It's not my most profitable business that we have, but it does okay. But it is. It's the relationships you generate by having people come to the studio. And you sit here with somebody and you talk about them with genuine interest for an hour. It's kind of hard for them not to see some sort of affection in you. I mean, yeah, you've had a couple people through that you're like, man, I want to talk to this person every kid. But for the most part, I have met some just amazing folks that have expanded

Starting point is 00:16:13 my network and I've done stuff with. I mean, we've done some business stuff outside of this room together because of the relationships that we built here, which is awesome. Because it's incredibly powerful, John. I don't know if you recognize this, but basically every DM that you get on LinkedIn is just sell you, sell you something. Paragraph, let's meet up for a 15-minute coffee or like, what are we doing? But I have found when I'm DMing people on LinkedIn saying, hey, Mr. CEO, Fortune 5000 company, love what you're doing over there. Would love to talk to you about your growth mindset on my podcast. Boom. You've just made a connection. I found that a dramatically high percentage, about 55% of those people that you reach out to, they're going to come on.

Starting point is 00:16:53 And it's just such an easy way to start that relationship. And if we're thoughtful about who we're inviting on, this is to me the best value. Clear vision of who you serve. You've got a high ticket offer. Maybe you're a coach, consultant. You the best value. Clear vision of who you serve. You've got a high ticket offer. Maybe you're a coach, consultant. You offer IT solutions. Clear vision of who you serve. Who's the person that's going to buy that thing? I'm going to invite them onto my show. I'm going to pepper them beforehand and after the show with how I've served other clients. I'm going to bring receipts. And then you just bring on these high value partners and clients. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And it's just so easy to get people on these calls and lead with value and

Starting point is 00:17:30 develop a relationship. Plus you get the backend value of now I'm building up my personal brand and my authority. I had Neil Patel on my show. He's the biggest SEO expert in the entire world. And now I've developed a halo effect with him and countless others. So that was the aha moment for me, was when I started really focusing on getting the right guests for clients that had the right offer, that were in the right place, that knew who they wanted. And once you see it, it's really powerful once you see it start to convert. Really, really cool. For those folks that might want to start doing this, that live in other parts of the country, you and I have a very similar great advantage, which is you're in Miami, I'm in Las Vegas. These high level people are coming to one of these markets all the time.

Starting point is 00:18:16 They're always coming in to speak. They're always coming for appearances. For you, they might be coming down just hanging out. I don't know, but it's pretty easy to get with these higher level people and get them on the calendar because they're like, yeah, I have an event in Vegas in this time. And they've come through. I mean, and the people that we're able to book are really astounding. So your clients are the people that might start a podcast that might live in Des Moines, Iowa, right? What's the pit? Is it all, you just say remote is as good as in person? I personally don't feel like remote is as good. I always, always better in person than I am on remote. I think the shows are always better. So we're always driving for remote. I'm sorry. We're driving for in person.

Starting point is 00:18:53 What are your thoughts? Well, there's pros and cons to both right in person. You're definitely going to get better content on the after, like all the biggest shows are doing their recordings in person. Uh, The clips are better, the relationship of like being in the same room, shaking someone's hand, getting to vibe with them. Obviously that's better. But there's issues with it too. It's much more complicated. It takes a lot more time. It takes a lot more money to get it set up. There's a lot more coordination, right? So what I built out for clients is we build out a very clear workflow of an application process. So you start blasting out your application.

Starting point is 00:19:28 Hey, come be on my show. I'm looking for CMOs for Fortune 5000 companies, right? Maybe that's who you reach. Then you reach out hand to hand. You have people fill out applications. You get to review the applications. This looks like a high quality person. Approve them, put them through your workflow.

Starting point is 00:19:47 It's all automated. You have emails on the front end. The first email is come on the show. The second email is before we get on the show, just so you know, this is how I help people really clear. Here's an example of how I help Jim or Joe or Jill. Boom. Then when you're on the show, you could, you know, you just ask them the right questions. You prime up at the end and say, Hey, how can I help you? They reciprocate. And then it turns into a business. So long story short. Just to me, are you using high level? What are you using to run that?

Starting point is 00:20:13 High level is what I personally use, but I have clients that use HubSpot, different platforms. Some clients are amalgamating things together. But high level, I think, is great for this. It's excellent. Unbeatable. We use high level for literally, I mean, I have staff in the building trained on everything high level, like here, just because we spin up so much stuff in that thing. It's so crazy now that if you are in a space where you have a tech idea, you have a thought, right? You can spin that up now so quickly

Starting point is 00:20:49 and get it to market as a tester to see if it's going to work before you do any real hard work on the backend, right? Like you can build a system that is functional to a point. It's kind of like kickstarting an idea, right? But I can run something up and run it through high level, get it out in marketing, see if it's going to work for a thousand bucks. Whereas 15 years ago, I'm spending $30,000 to

Starting point is 00:21:14 develop software and develop systems and develop this stuff. And then we launch it and it sucks and nobody wants it. So I got as a loser on the heap. So now the ideas that we come up with on how to connect agents, get referrals, do these things, or whatever business we may be working on, we can spin up so much faster. And it's because of stuff like high level. So if you're sitting there thinking like, oh, I got an idea. I know how to do it. Dude, start there. Start there. Absolutely. High level is great. You need to have the right partners. It can be a little tricky, but like you said, if you've got the right people in place to help you get it set up quickly,

Starting point is 00:21:46 easily, look at your stat sheet, see who's clicking what links, where your people are getting tagged, adding, moving sequences. No, it's brilliant. It's brilliant. One of the things I did with the podcast automation too for my clients is we set up an AI prep tool. So when someone fills out a calendar to book onto your podcast, it will also use AI to kind of look at who this person is, what business they're in, who do they serve? What are their goals? Puts that all over into your notes. So when you, or maybe your sales team, maybe you have a sales team that's manning the podcast. Maybe it's not even you as the face. Maybe your sales team is leveraging the podcast as a way to

Starting point is 00:22:21 get into these high value relationships. Well, by the time they get on, even if they've never done a podcast before, you already have AI kind of prepping you. Here's how you intro the person. Here are 10 suggested questions. Here are 10 problems they might be suffering in their business. So it's all laid out there, super simple, very easy to implement. And yeah, it's why our snapshots have been killing. Wow, that's awesome. So obviously using AI for automating the podcast stuff for your clients. Where other places are using AI for just open marketing? Oh gosh, there's so many cool things. And you can use it for list generation and copywriting. All that stuff's brilliant.

Starting point is 00:23:00 But one of the places I really like to use chat GPTs, um, integration is anytime I'm having people fill out lists, surveys, questionnaires, right. And what's, what's really cool for me that I see John is in the past, when you would have people fill out surveys, you, you, you know, you would just have them like hit check boxes, but now you can actually have people write in their own specific custom answers and AI is able to interpret that, contextualize it, and give you a result. And I'll give you a really cool example of this. So I needed to hire a new position. So I put out a job listing on a marketplace and said, anybody who is interested in this copywriting job, fill out this form and I'll get back to you. They fill out the form with various questions like, have you worked

Starting point is 00:23:50 on these projects before? What are the key KPIs you're looking for? How would you solve if one of those KPIs like open rates was low, et cetera, et cetera. A number of questions. All those answers in that form automatically sent over to ChatGP. I was using Zapier, using Zapier to do this. Zapier sends over to chat GPT. Well, let's give specifics. We're using Google forms to a Google Sheets, to a Google Sheets spreadsheet? Yes, exactly. Exactly. It doesn't have to be Google form. It could be something else, but in this case, it was a Google form. You could use a high-level form. You could use a type form. I think for what we're talking about, I like to use the Google forms because I really love... ChatGBT seems to do really, really well with Google form data. I don't know why it loves it, but it just seems it's simpler, I think, than the Excel stuff. I don't know why.

Starting point is 00:24:35 It's my go-to. Okay. It's just really easy to integrate and Zapier does a good job of integrating the two too. But again, high level has a decent integration too. But yeah, to your point, John, fill out your information. All the applicants put their answers into the Google form. From Google form, it sends it using Zapier over to ChatGPT. ChatGPT analyzes all the answers and then gives them a summary in a spreadsheet and ranks them from a level one to 10. Okay. So instead of looking through 50 applications

Starting point is 00:25:15 manually, I just need to look through five because I only looked at the top eight, nine, and tens. The people that ranked eight, nine, and 10, those are the people I looked at because they were able to write the best answers. So in this case, I'm using AI to actually do critical thinking and to do the screening process. So instead of spending a day looking through a bunch of applications, I'd say, okay, these top three look good. These top four look good. Boom, booked them.

Starting point is 00:25:38 And I ended up hiring two people when I only needed one just because they were so qualified. I'm laughing because I spent three, four hours yesterday going through probably 95 resumes on Indeed yesterday for a job that I haven't done. Probably that long. Yeah, that's how long I spent going through that. That's not that long. No, but I still should have stay on that going through that. So that's not that long. No, but I should, but I still should have thought to just kind of, I still should have

Starting point is 00:26:08 figured out how to do that. I mean, again, it's one of those things where we try to, I should have been smarter than that. And you know, see, here's back to our original point about, you know, scaling yourself out of your core competencies. You know, everybody talks about their superpower is what my kryptonite is, is I always just, I like to put myself in charge of things, right? I could be standing in front of four people that work for me and I'm like, I'll just take care of it. Just take care of it. So literally I told my chief operating officer at

Starting point is 00:26:37 one of our companies yesterday, I said, the next time I say I'm going to be in charge of something or I'll take care of it. It is your job to say, no, you won't. Nope. You're not. You're not. Cause I eventually do get it done. But like last night, literally it's a, it's 11 o'clock at night and I'm in typesetter, which I love. I think typesetter is really cool for developing manuals or whatever else you need it to do. But I'm in typesetter and I'm building out a training manual for marketing reps for my title company. And I'm like, at 11, I'm like, why am I doing this? Because I wanted to be the one to get the information that I needed to train the title

Starting point is 00:27:15 reps because I want to train. And I'm like, I could have just let somebody else do 90% of this and then just come in and sprinkle my little 10% of magic on top of it. But it was one of those things where I was like, I have to do it do it so this morning first thing i told him was your job now is to tell me no you're not doing this you're you're not you're just not going to be in charge of it because yeah it's a weakness how do you how do you handle that how do you handle delegating things that you think that you are just more competent at than anybody else in your organization? How do you do that? Well, I think that that's probably one of the biggest areas of opportunity for me is making the right partnerships. I've got a lot of different

Starting point is 00:27:55 partnerships in the works right now, making sure I have the right inner circle, the right people around me. I mean, gosh, I think it was Kevin Kelly said, show me your five closest friends and I'll show you where your trajectory is. Right. Um, and then you said, if you have five dipshits, I'll show you the sixth. I like that. I like that. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, I think, you know, it's empowering people. And I, you know, frankly, I haven't had too much of a challenge doing that. Um, but it's been, it's been interesting. And frankly, I haven't had too much of a challenge doing that, but it's been interesting. I've leaned on my team a lot more recently because I noticed I'm spending way too much time critiquing thumbnails or critiquing titles to episodes and making sure

Starting point is 00:28:39 that this click-through rate is great. And instead, I just said, hey, y'all, here's the tools, try it. We're going to look at the data on the backend, go nuts. I'll pay for training. You want to go through a coaching, I'll pay for that. I just want to try to empower them as much as possible, which by the way, I think, and I don't know if you're seeing this, John, a lot of employees are terrified of AI right now. They're afraid that it's coming for their jobs. Have you seen that with your staff, with people, with your businesses? I mean, yes and no. I think that if I had to say where I think I'll be impacted with AI, right? Because we are, our main core competency business obviously is real estate. We have a

Starting point is 00:29:20 very large real estate brokerage with about 600 agents. And is AI coming for real estate agents? No, I genuinely don't believe it is. And I'll tell you why. When Zillow came out, whatever, after Expedia, everybody said, oh, real estate agents are going out of business. They're going the way of the dinosaur. Because look what happened to travel agents when Expedia came out, right? Look what happened. You don't need a travel agent anymore. My response to that is always the same thing, which is I don't need a travel agent to hold my hand and tell me it's okay to book a trip to Hawaii. A lot of people need a little reassurance to make the largest single financial transaction of their entire lives. They need a little reassurance. A lot of people do. And there's some people listening to this and be like, I don't need to tell you. I'm fine. I'll

Starting point is 00:30:04 swing 500 grand around. I don't care. A lot of people aren't like there's some people listening to this and be like, I don't need to tell you. I'm fine. I'll sling 500 grand around. I don't care. A lot of people aren't like that. They're not built that way. They need a professional to say, here, this is why this is okay. This is going to be good. This is good. You're good.

Starting point is 00:30:14 I got you. They need that. And that's why I don't think that aspect. Now, on the other side of some of our verticals, if you look at the title and mortgage industry, there is a lot of work that is done inside of those businesses that we're already seeing some advancements within the software we use where AI can interpret a contract. It can read a contract and say, okay, I hear the parties. There's the, you know, there's the address. I know this, I can plug this in. So a lot of, I think if you're a data entry person, I think you're screwed. I think if you're in a people business, like a belly-to-belly people business, which I

Starting point is 00:30:49 generally believe real estate is, I think you're going to be okay. Well, and I think that that's an important idea is that a lot of businesses are people businesses, right? People buy from people. But there's a lot of stuff that happens behind the scenes, like you're mentioning. I was up at 12 o'clock at night doing this, writing out this package. As AI gets more and more refined, the greats, the people that are really good realtors, which by the way, I think it's like 50% of people are realtors nowadays.

Starting point is 00:31:24 There's so many realtors. I'll go into a McDonald's and the server there is a realtor, right? Everyone's a realtor. Not to bang on realtors, but there's a lot. It's true. It's true. So what I think you could see is the people that are really good at selling, that they're really good at that human connection, are going to be able to leverage that AI to drive better leads, to answer frequently asked questions more accurately. Maybe they're using AI to proofread contracts or train staff or do cold calling or level in customer support, right? So what's interesting to me is AI does two things really. The first of which it makes like a beginner who's

Starting point is 00:32:02 like just not very good. It makes them pretty decent. It makes them pretty proficient. I'm glad you're saying this. I was about to bring this up because I saw you say this and I thought this was such a great point. Go ahead. Yeah. AI makes beginners proficient and it makes experts efficient, right? So if you're really good at what you do, AI is just like gas in the fight, just like marketing. If you have a good product and good service and proven deliverables, the marketing is just going to blow it out of the water. But if you're brand new, if you've never done anything, if you're in Indonesia and you don't know anything about real estate, you could use ChatGPT and you could probably write a hundred really sick, accurate blogs. You could start writing cold DMs and cold email and doing, so this is what's happening.

Starting point is 00:32:46 So in the real estate industry, I think that this is going to be a big deal because if you're, let's say you're in the middle, let's say you're a level, like a five out of 10 realtor, like you're good, you're solid, you've passed your training, you know how to read the MLS, you've closed some deals. Well, if you're not using AI to become more efficient at that, the guy who's a level nine or 10, who's using AI is going to blow you out of the water because he's going to be here. She's gonna be able to absorb all that business because they're going to have the resources to handle it all. What do you think the best way that if, okay, say you're not a realtor, but you know, 8 million of them, because we all do.

Starting point is 00:33:21 What do you think if you were a realtor right now, what would you be using AI for? Well, I mean, I think like we said before, right, we need to figure out how to replace ourselves as many places as possible. So I'd like to start with the beginner stuff. I think using high level and integrating AI chatbots, not for cold DM, I don't love that yet, but using AI to empower, using AI to write lists, using AI to screen applicants. How do I get people to fill out a form? If someone fills out a form, how quickly am I getting back to them? You can use AI to create customer responses

Starting point is 00:34:00 at right there in your CRM. So I think those are a lot of places I would be looking at it. Yeah, I think that's what's right. I think that, I'll tell you, it seems like I find something new every day with AI. And I found something, and it's the stupidest stuff sometimes, but it's like, this is really good. I'm very much a vision. I'll give you my new favorite thing with AI and it's stupid, but I love it. I love it so much. It's crazy. I'm a huge vision board guy, right? I love the vision board. You can use it. And now you don't have to get a mid journey anymore because now

Starting point is 00:34:35 you have the AI generator plugin, right? And chat GPT, right? It's pretty good. You can literally create your dreams in image reality and print them out and put them on the mirror in your bedroom and look at them every day. Right. You can little dude, I, if you come in, it's mine or my gym at my house, but I've got like the six things that I'm trying to get to come true right now. And dude, these are pictures of this shit happening, right? Like it is a picture of a Hudson news in the airport. And my book is sitting right on the rack and it says bestseller, right? Cause it's, it's, I look at that and I feel that every day, you know, there's some idiots that owe me money and there's a, there's a, there's a, I have a, I'm in a lawsuit with a guy that owes me a ton

Starting point is 00:35:22 of money and there's a damn, uh, there's a judgment against him for 2 million bucks. Right. I'm like, there's a judgment. And I look at that every day. Right. I'm like, that's going to come true. And you can generate whatever it is you want. You don't have to go to a magazine anymore and cut out some stupid picture of a Ferrari and throw it up on your mirror. No dude, you can make like, you wouldn't like, you can create whatever you want. You would a damn Ferrari and there it up on your mirror. No, dude, you can make like a, you and like, you can create whatever you want, you and a damn Ferrari. And there it is. And you're looking at it. So that's my new stupid favorite thing with AI. They can grow rich brother. They can grow rich. I love that. And that stuff is great for social media too. You know, like the, the, the AI images you can

Starting point is 00:36:01 generate are great for, for, for that. Um, you that. Here's another thing that I thought was really good. I was doing some videography work for a local dance studio. And I said, hey, Chrissy, I'm going to be at your studio next week, you know, two o'clock, right? Go ahead and fill out this form so I know a little bit more about your business. So she filled out a form. Again, we're kind of going back to this automation idea. She fills out a form, Google form, who she is, who she serves, the problems she solves, where she's located, frequently asked questions, right? Fills it out. Took her five minutes. Sends it over to ChatGPT. ChatGPT writes out a header video for the main website, an about me video, about the business video, 20 different short ideas for shorts.

Starting point is 00:36:47 And it writes out the exact script, John. Sends it to Gmail. I proofread it, boom, boom, boom. It took me two minutes. Send. And you can upgrade. No, but you can upload to the captions app. Do it on the script. Yeah. And now caption app has these, I don't know if you've seen it yet, but caption has this really cool B-roll stuff they'll throw on and they'll throw on, I mean, they look, it's really good. It's AI B-roll. They'll cut into your stuff and jump cuts and make it like everything, you know, dude, I have a problem with that. It's like, I do it and my team does it, but it's like, man, I just feel like I'm adding to the ADD epidemic. I feel like I'm adding to it every time I do that, but we do it and it's nuts. But as far as the image creation

Starting point is 00:37:31 too, what I love is forever, like my company, like how we probably, if I had to pick one thing, like how we built our company, because we built it from scratch and how we did it over the years was we had the coolest ads, right? Like I had the coolest, edgiest, funniest ads that would go out about our company. And what I would do is I would Google like the best ads in Germany, right? Like the, like weird Scandinavia, best ad, best print ads of the year. And I would find these crazy images that I like the image, whatever was the image was in the ad. And then I would copy that image and then use it, you know, probably, you know, copyright violations like crazy, but I would use that image that I found and then bend it to an ad for our company. But now I have the ability to just like think of something that I

Starting point is 00:38:20 think would be funny and I can create the whatever image I want in chat, CBT, and then use it for that. Like I made an ad yesterday that's going out. Uh, and, and the whole, it's a marketing campaign about, you know, are you worried you're going to be on the market too long? Cause now listings are starting to sit a little bit. So are you, are you worried you're going to be on the market too long? And I made like this 80 year old woman dressed like a twenties club chick sitting in a singles bar waiting for somebody to buy her drink. She says, are you worried you're going to be on the market too long? And it's awesome, right? Because I can think of something like that. And literally it spits out this like ad quality image that I can use. And I'm like, man, whatever I come up with, I can just do now. So I think that

Starting point is 00:38:59 goes to your point of it just, it can, it'll make you better. If you're okay, it makes you proficient, but if you're good, it makes you great that quick. Great for stopping the scroll. They're just great. The images are very compelling and I don't think enough people have caught on to how, how easy and how powerful and how vivid these images are, which by the way, you know, if you're running a Facebook ad campaign, you need, you need not just one image, you need four to six images. And like, how do you get four to six compelling images? This is something that's crazy to me. I'll bring on new clients and say, hey, do a photo dump, dump all your photos, all your

Starting point is 00:39:31 headshots in here. Like, I don't have any headshots, I need new ones. It's like, take them, we can use AI to clean them up, right? So it's absurd. It's absurd. That's the joke now with realtor headshots. It's gone from you using your headshot from 25 years ago, you don't look like this at all anymore. So now you're using AI headshots that were never you and you never looked that good. That's what you're seeing now on everything.

Starting point is 00:39:58 By the way, my LinkedIn headshot profile is AI generated, but it's close enough. And it's very serious. It's very serious. If you all want to check me out, Mark Savant on LinkedIn. It's an AI headshot, but it's good enough. It's close enough that people still recognize me. I was just over at NSU, Nova Southeastern University's Innovation Day Levan Center. And there were a couple of people like, are you Mark? I'm like, yeah. I'm like, oh, I recognize you from your headshot. So it could still work. I mean, at the end of the day, that's what the headshot is. But you know. Listen, I think we can agree. Look, and this is not a sex statement, ladies. If you're listening to this and I know 50% of our audience is female, don't get mad at me for saying this, but we can all agree. You probably touch up your photos a

Starting point is 00:40:42 little bit more than the guys do. I think we just don't really care that much. And yeah, I mean, we've all seen your photos on social media where you don't even look human anymore because you've used so many filters on the thing. So don't make fun of that. But yeah, I think the thing is you can use AI, but just don't make it ETA. I guess it's a good thing. Well, right. You don't want to confuse people. I've definitely had moments where someone's coming on my podcast or something and I was like, who is this person? This is not you. Or we're producing a show for a client and the picture, the headshot, the guest sends, it's not the same person. It's crazy. Because like you said, people are rolling around with headshots that are 10 years old. But you can can use a program. Like I've used program Lenza. You upto you upload 10 selfies and it gives you a hundred different potential

Starting point is 00:41:29 pictures and you pick one and it's, it's going to be sick, nasty. You're going to, I'm telling you it's game changer. Game changer. The future is now. So let me ask you this, dude. Obviously you're using Zapier to connect chat GBT directly to a lot of other things but if you had to pick five ai based websites or programs that you love right now what are they what are you give me your actually five is probably a lot give me your top three right now outside of chat gbt what are you using well there's a number so um so one of the things is okay i'm not going to give you a whole thing i I would say Descript is one of my favorite. It's great for finding scripts, changing it. It's great for editing videos. If you have a podcast, Descript is fantastic. CastMagic is one of my favorite programs for writing captions, summaries, blogs. Basically, you can just copy and paste a YouTube

Starting point is 00:42:20 video. It's going to give you titles, tags, blogs, emails. It's fully customizable, really powerful. I love Cast Magic. And I also, I just like the chat GPT integration in high level. I think there's some really unique stuff that can be done in there. Another program that I'm very interested in, I'm not going to put my stamp on it. I'm not going to put my stamp on it yet, but I think Closebot and some of these um ai chat bots that can be embedded on your website are really really powerful because if someone's looking if you have a if you have a particular product or service that people need now like maybe plumbing um even real estate title work someone's like okay i have a problem i need to help now

Starting point is 00:43:01 having that chat on your website that instantly engages someone who's on your website is really important because what happens is people have this psychological loop, right? They're saying, my wife told me I need to find a plumber because, or my wife told me I need an AC guy because it's hot, right? And so you're around, you're poking around, you find a website and you're like, is this the AC guy for me, right? If a chatbot pops up and says, hey, sounds like you need AC work, something I can help you with. Yeah, I live at this address. I'm cool. Okay, cool. Let me schedule an appointment for you right now. Or maybe I'll schedule a call back from one of our reps. I'll have a rep get right back to you. Now you've psychologically closed that loop. Okay, cool.

Starting point is 00:43:43 I can get back to work. My, when my wife asks, I'll say I'm waiting on a call from. So having a, like a really powerful enclosed bot is a good one. Having a closed bot AI bot on your website, I think is really important to help close that psychological loop and make sure that, um, you, you know, you can get back to someone quickly. It's not going to do all the heavy lifting, but it'll at least put, put someone on ice. So I'll tell, I'll tell you my new favorite one too, which is, so I was using HeyGen to obviously do video avatars myself, right? Problem with HeyGen was you couldn't do it at scale because it was very expensive because they had that credit system, which I don't like. Vidyard just came out with an enterprise solution that for 1200 bucks a year,

Starting point is 00:44:23 I can have up to three avatars and unlimited video creation. I can use Zapier to connect, connect to a data point sheet on like a, I can upload a CSV file with different data points in it. So I can be like, I can make a script. It's like, Hey blank.

Starting point is 00:44:38 I saw you were interested in blank street, whatever. I'm going to call you back at this time. And then I can upload a CSV of a hundred bill, Bob, Kim, street, whatever, I'm going to call you back at this time. And then I can upload a CSV of a hundred Bill, Bob, Kim, John, Fred, and then main street, fig street, Bob street, whatever it is. And it'll just instantly generate all of those videos that we can just grab an email out individually through a bomb bomb like system that now Vidyard has. So they have taken what, Hey Jen could do and now put, made it scalable because it wasn't, you couldn't do it at scale.

Starting point is 00:45:05 So even if you were having inbound stuff that you were using with like high level that you needed to do, personalize him, you know, personalize stuff like Frank Kern does this very, very well. If you ever sign up for anything from Frank, Frank is just going to pound you with videos or your name on it of him.

Starting point is 00:45:18 There aren't him. Yeah. But this is how they're doing it. So, so Vidyard, if you want to do video automation at scale. Now, are you having Vidyard record the entire video or are you recording the video? And then Vidyard just does like the first couple seconds of it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is a,

Starting point is 00:45:33 this is an AI generated version of you that off a script will generate a video. And it's pretty accurate. Like we did one, the first one that I did was we have a warning video that we send out to all of our, everybody that does business with our title company, warning them of digital fraud and how easy it is for somebody to send them the wrong wiring instructions to steal their money and why they need to verify that and all of this stuff. And at the end of the video, I go, if you don't believe how rampant this stuff is, I'm not even a real person. I'm AI generated. I'm talking to you. And I look and sound like a real person. And I'm here telling you that somebody look and sound like a real person.

Starting point is 00:46:08 And I'm here telling you that somebody is trying to steal your money. And when really I could have just told you to wire money to me and you probably would have believed this video and I'm stealing it. Just kind of, I need to see this because the, you know, I've seen, I've tested quite a few video digital twin apps, but I haven't found one that looks like, wow, this actually gives me the vibe I'm looking for. Cause they sometimes look a little choppy. I actually, you know, it's funny. I was talking to someone the other day, who's also doing AI automation in the real estate industry. And he had developed this AI chat bot that was just DMing people like crazy, Facebook, Instagram, DMing, DMing, DMing, like a hundred DMs a day or a hundred DMs an hour, even there's like really heavy. And I said, well, let me know.

Starting point is 00:46:46 The other day, the AI is awesome. If it converts, it needs to be about, everyone's just saying AI. And so he ended up turning it off because it was just, it wasn't getting in the returning one because it takes tokens. It takes time. AI having direct outreach impacts your personal brand as well. So these, these are all things I think that we need to weigh out. But what I like about that, John, is if you're first to figure it out, not even first, if you're one of the first to figure out how to make it work, it's infinitely scalable. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Dude, we love it. I mean, it's just, we're always, again, we're constantly trying to look for ways to innovate that. And anytime I can clone myself effectively and send that out, that's awesome. And we're doing it. It's, it's fast and it's, it's good. And the problem again, man, I loved, Hey Jen's, but it just was, it wasn't cost effective. You couldn't scale it. What was the name of this one? Vidyard. V-I-D-Y-A-R-D. Dude, I should have an affiliate link for these guys. I'm pushing this stuff on my podcast. I really should have an affiliate link. And if you're somebody that

Starting point is 00:47:51 monetizes podcasts, you're probably quenching that I don't have right now. Go to johnsvidyard.com and you'll have the link right there. No, no. I'm just kidding. Actually, by the time we have this, I'll probably have a damn affiliate link. So you're watching this on youtube click the link below and if you're listening to us on uh on uh on uh podcast places go to escapethedrift.com and i'll have a link up because yeah this is stupid not to have an affiliate for this if i'm pushing it like this i'm selling it like it's the holy grail and i'm not gonna get paid stupid anyway um yeah so let's talk about that real quick when you talk about monetizing podcasts but what is what avenues, channels, methods for doing that if somebody wants to have a podcast and monetize it?

Starting point is 00:48:30 Let's talk about that. How long should you have to have it before you get it monetized? What are your thoughts? Well, an interesting stat came out recently in that the top 10 podcasts generate 35% of the ad revenue. The top 10, not the top 10%, the top 10 podcasts generate 35% of the ad revenue, the top 10, not the top 10%, the top 10 podcasts. So out of like 1.5 million active podcasts, 10 are getting 35% of the revenue. So it's for the

Starting point is 00:48:54 next 1.4 million to try to scavenge for the remain. So ad revenue is not a great way to go when it comes to generating a good return on your investment. And we talked about this a little bit in the beginning, John. I have found the best return for podcasts is in the relationships. And your relationships are either with people that can drive your business forward, A. B, maybe they're a referral partner. Or C, they're actually the exact customer for your business. Because you, and again, we talked about this earlier. It is, it's just really annoying when people reach out to you on LinkedIn to try to sell you something.

Starting point is 00:49:36 It just is like LinkedIn is terrible. It's terrible. It's the two places I think I hate the most are LinkedIn and what is what is it uh next door actually that's not true i love next door and here's why i love next door it's like a corral for really unhappy people like they just just put them in this little pool and then let me tell you something about this chinese restaurant i went to last night and that's all it is that's all like every now and again something will pop in my phone i'm like like, I gotta look at the next service. I'm like, no, two things and I'm out. I'm like, I don't not need to be around these people or anything that they think.

Starting point is 00:50:10 But LinkedIn is, it's really just like, please. And here's the thing. I also find, if you have a better way for this, I think you mentioned it earlier, but lead with value of something that makes sense and get to the point. What I cannot stand is when people hit me up through channels and like, so what are you working on now? What do you like, dude? Yeah, I'm working, which is why I'm not even going to bother responding to this shit. Right. I don't have time for you. Right. Give me, what do you want? What's in it for me? What's it going to cost? Or why should I do this? Why should I give you my time? That's all I all i need those three things i think high level people think the same way and you they're gonna get pitches

Starting point is 00:50:48 like that i respect them and i'll reply back yes no maybe whatever that's how it works but i get the oh i see you've been doing this your podcast why is that important to you dude no i wouldn't tell my mom the answer to that question why why am i going to tell you some stranger in the unapproved DMs on Instagram that, oh, gee, let me tell you all about it. Come on, man. Come on. Read bio. Read bio. But again, so where I really like, and again, there's all sorts of different ways to leverage it, but you got to go into a podcast or a YouTube knowing what is my actual goal here? Why am I actually doing this?

Starting point is 00:51:25 You know, when you're running a Facebook ad, it's really easy, you know, running Facebook ad to drive new leads that are going to convert. And then it's kind of tweaked for return on ad spend. But what I really like podcasts for is I'm making, you know, I'm, I'm specific, I'm specifically screening for a very specific type of guest. And I'm going to leverage that podcast as a tool to develop a strategic partnership. Because one deal could be 50 grand. It could be a quarter million one deal, depending on the business that you're in. Or maybe it's a referral partner who's going to drive leads to you for years to come. So it's being strategic. And by the way, you go to LinkedIn, you say, how am I going to get on the right calls with the right people? If you're very clear on who you serve and if you have receipts, you can get your exact avatar to agree to come on your show.

Starting point is 00:52:14 Everybody wants to talk about themselves. You're like, hey, I have a growth-minded podcast that is specifically targeted for seven, eight, nine-figure entrepreneurs. I see you're doing great things over at ABC company. I'd love to hear how you're growing your company. Come talk to me. Boom. They come on, you wine them and dine them. At the end, you're like, you, you, you ask them, Hey, how can I help you? I want to really serve you. And then the natural thing that someone does when they, when you, they're asked psychologically to say, Oh, you can do this for me. How can I help you? Oh, well, it's funny. You ask, you know, I noticed that, you know, your, you can do this for me. How can I help you? Oh, well, it's funny you ask. I noticed that

Starting point is 00:52:51 your website traffic is down 50%, but we really specialize in driving your website traffic. This is what we did for John. This is what we did for Jim. So you can easily lead with value and then turn those into strategic high value relationships on the back end. It doesn't work for everyone, but if you really are trying to be growth minded and develop the relationships that are necessary it's it's there's just nothing like it so that's where i see the biggest return the guy that i know that's the best at that type networking or ask is like dave melzer always every time i see him he asked me the same question the first thing out of his mouth he says hey what's up man what do you need what can do for you every he said i don't trust me i'm not special with dave He says that to everybody he sees. And I think that's just his method.

Starting point is 00:53:26 And he'll tell you, that's the first thing out of my mouth is I try to lead with value before anything else. I don't care. And if you lead with value, always, I think things come back. So I love that. So to wrap this up, man, if you're thinking about like, who is your avatar, man? Who are we looking to? Who are you looking?

Starting point is 00:53:44 Let's call them out right now and say, if you are this human, you need to connect. Who are they? Sure. Listen, if you're growth minded, if you're doing seven, eight, nine figures a year, if you're trying to figure out how to get on better calls with better people, we have, we had, we just have the best solution. I don't know else to say it, you know, whether it's within our CRM or developing your CRM model, we optimize the videos. We find you the guests. We put you on the call. We wind them on the front. We dine them on the back. We train you and or your sales staff to make sure that you know how to ask the right questions that are going to drive the sale. And that's what I'm focused on, man. How can you leverage that podcast? How can we get as much leverage per podcast as possible?

Starting point is 00:54:24 How can we automate the front end and the back end to drive the sales? And I've got an entire workflow. Anyone that's out there, you want the entire workflow, I'll give it to you for free. You just email me, mark at marksfontmedia.com. I've got the entire workflow for you. He's going to give it to you for free. That's awesome, dude.

Starting point is 00:54:41 Well, bro, look. What's your Instagram? How do they follow you? How do they find you? How do they find you? Did we talk about that? You can find me at Mark Savant Media. Mark Savant Media all over the place. Mark Savant Media.

Starting point is 00:54:50 Well, bro, I appreciate it so much, man. Dude, and anytime you want to come back on, you let me know. All right? John, we got to do this again soon, brother. Next time in Vegas, baby. And next time in Miami, buddy. I'll let you know. All right?

Starting point is 00:55:03 Let's go. All right, guys. Listen. Let that be a Miami, buddy, I'll let you know. All right. All right, guys, listen, let that be a lesson to you, man. There's so many ways now that you can escape the drift. You can get up and start taking charge of your life. I mean, if you take one thing away from everything we just talked about for the last, however long we were talking, let it be this. Let it be the fact that if you are okay or an idiot at something, ChatGBT can make you at least proficient. And guess what? Proficient will get you paid. We'll see you next week. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you

Starting point is 00:55:43 got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escaping the drift.com. You can join our mailing list, but do me a favor. If you wouldn't mind, throw up that five-star review, give us a share, do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.

Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - From Employee to Entrepreneur: Mark Savant on AI, Podcasts, and Unlocking Success

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