Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - From Reality TV to Real Estate with Ryan Serhant

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

Join us for a captivating conversation with Ryan Serhant, renowned for his role on Bravo's Million Dollar Listing and his impactful journey in the real estate industry. From humble beginnings to becoming a leading authority in New York City's real estate market, Ryan shares his inspiring story, offering valuable insights and strategies for success. Delving into the secrets of selling, building personal brands, and navigating the ever-evolving landscape of entrepreneurship, Ryan discusses his bold decision to build his brand, the importance of relentless follow-up, projecting "Big Money Energy," and crafting a distinctive personal brand. Get ready to be motivated, empowered, and equipped with practical strategies to elevate your game, control your destiny, and achieve your dreams.Highlights:"I'd rather regret the things I did than the things I never tried.""The one in the relationship who holds all the power is the one who cares the least.""I work for the deal. We are all here to work for the deal. It is a win-win game."Timestamps:01:23 - Ryan's Journey: Theater to Real Estate03:41 - Reality TV Auditions: Path to Million Dollar Listing08:50- Unconventional Negotiation Tactics10:46 - Contrasting Real Estate Markets14:11- Surprising Negotiation Strategies17:02 - Shifting Perspectives in Deal-Making27:03 - Consumer Burdens: The Cost of Lawsuits31:18- Cultivating Resilience in Business34:09 - The Importance of Relentless Follow-Up47:07 - Branding: Thriving in the New Economy

What's up, everybody? Today on Escaping the Drift, I had Ryan Serhant from Million Dollar Listing. It was an awesome conversation. We talked about all kinds of stuff from his early years into how he kind of BS'd his way onto Million Dollar Listing. That is a story that, if we talked about nothing else other than that,

that story is worth a listen. We talked about all the books he's written. We talked about the trials and tribulations that he had going into opening his own brand and what it took to build Sirhan. If you are in sales, if you're in business, if you're just like Million Dollar Listing, this is a podcast you're going to want to listen to. Check it out. And now, Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gaffordord and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness.

So stop drifting along, escape the drift, and it's time to start right now. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Escaping the Drift. And today, man, I got to tell you, I got a banger. I got just an exceptional guest in studio today. You will definitely recognize this cat from reality television. He is one of the, I'm just going to say founding members, biggest stars of Bravo's million dollar listing. He has built his own brand

in a way that nobody else in that show has excelled to do. He is the author of three great books and we are lucky to have him. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program today, the one, the only, Ryan Serhant. Ryan, how are you, buddy? Hey, Guy. How are you? Thanks for having me. I'm doing good, doing good. So I want to kind of jump right into this if we can. So a couple things. Number one, I want to talk about what you did before all of this. What was Ryan's life before real estate? What did you do? Oh, man. Well, one, I was born in Houston, Texas, bounced around a lot, moved like eight times before I guess I was 10 years old, mostly up and down the East Coast, eventually settled down in Boston,

went to high school there, went to college in upstate New York, played every single sport known to man, was terrible at all of them. I thought I was going to go to law school. I took the LSAT to go to law school, bombed the LSAT. I was like, I guess I'm not going to law school. And then moved to New York in 2006 to do theater. I'd rather regret the things I did than the things I never tried. And I didn't want to be 60 years old one day saying,

I never actually tried that one thing that I was kind of okay at. But I wasn't okay enough because I totally ran out of money really, really quick. And then I got my real estate license like most actors do. So I could just do my thing off to the side while also renting apartments. New York City is a big rental city. It's like 70% leases and rentals here. Even the wealthiest people, they'll just rent because they own a place in the Hamptons or London or wherever. And my goal was just to do one rental deal a month. If I could make $2,000 a month, I could pay my bills, I could buy food, I could be good. And I would have all the time in the world to do all the stuff that I came to New York to do in the first place. But then I just got addicted to the outcome.

I got addicted to putting in the work and raising my chances of making an income versus, you know, as an actor, you put in the work for 10 years. The chances are really low, right? They're less than 1%. So as much as I loved it, it was just, it was tough to live. That's hard. You know, that's hard. How long had you been in real estate before Million Dollar Listing? How long? Technically a year and a half, because I got my license and started in September 2008. And then that audition for Million Dollar Listing was March of 2010. So about a year and a half before the process started,

the show didn't air because we filmed in 2010, 2011, and the show didn't come out until March of 2012. So I'd been in the business then for just under four years. So I was relatively still pretty fresh and pretty new. So when they were casting that show, and the reason I say this is because my career also started on reality television. I was on the third season of The Apprentice with Donald Trump. And so I got my start there. And I can tell you when I went to those casting calls for The Apprentice, I completely bullshitted my way out of the show. I probably should not have been there in retrospect.

So I'm curious, were you at a place in your real estate career where you kind of bullshitted your way onto Million Dollar Listing and start? Yeah. No, listen, I knew a couple of things. One, like 3,000 real estate agents showed up for that first season of Million Dollar Listing. And they said they were going to cast four people and they were going to shoot the whole season with four people. And only three of them would make the actual show.

So the stress was high. Things were high. And also, I went in there with no chance in the world. What I learned, actually, from being an actor and going to auditions all the time is when you care, you don't get it. When you don't care, you really raises your chances of getting it. You know, it's like Michael Douglas says at the, as a, at the end of that movie, the ghosts of girlfriends past with Matthew McConaughey, the one in the relationship who holds all the power is the one who cares the least. And it's so true. So I went in there and I knew that the casting director was from LA.

And so I knew they didn't know New York. So I said, okay, I got a leg up on them. They don't really know. They're just looking probably for a look and they're looking to be sold. Like casting directors always, you can watch interviews with them all the time. They don't want to see a thousand people. Like that's work. That sucks. They want you to come in and be perfect. Like you sell them, like just sell me, please, please. I don't want to see another thousand real estate agents. And so I, I, I didn't fake it, but I definitely went in there and I said to myself, okay, how long did these shows take to make? Let's say I get cast this year. It'll take forever to film

it. That'll be a while. It probably doesn't come out for a year, two years, probably, which was exactly on the money. It didn't come out for two years. And so what kind of agent am I going to be in two years? Because by the time this airs, that's who I'm going to be. So why would I ever tell them that I'm who I am today? Why don't I tell them and show them who I'm going to be in two years when this show would actually even come out? Because the Ryan today, back in 2010, was very budgeted. I'd have my bagel. I would take the subway. I lived in a studio with no bathroom in Koreatown because it was the cheapest I could find while being next to public transportation so I could get to my appointments. And I really didn't have a whole lot to show for it, but I knew it was like, if I got this Ryan two years from now, when this thing comes out, I will be crushing it.

I don't know how, but I'll have, I'm not going to be taking the subway anymore. I lose cell service down there and it's fucking hot. So I would have a driver by far. Like that's the first thing you get. Okay, cool.

I have a cool apartment. I'd probably have my own car. So that would have a driver by far. Like that's the first thing you get. Okay, cool. I have a cool apartment. I'd probably have my own car. So I would do. And I'd be selling things all day, every day to the point where I probably wouldn't even remember what they are. And so when they asked me, like, who are you? That's the image that I presented to them. So was me in the future, future Ryan.

And then when they came to film me, I borrowed a Range Rover. I borrowed a guy who could I borrowed a, a, a guy, you know, who could drive, um, and be a driver. I borrowed some listings. I had to meet me at five in the morning and they were all from LA, which was two in the morning to them. So they were exhausted anyway. Right. And I just rode them through this wild and crazy day to the point where they were like, we don't know what just happened with that guy, but he's young. Uh, I think he's got gray hair, so I can't, maybe he's actually old. I don't know what just happened with that guy, but he's young. Uh, I think he's got gray hair, so I can't, maybe he's actually old. I don't really know. It was super weird. Um, and his life is totally insane. And then I had every single person I know call me all day long.

Like your phone just rang. Yeah. The phone rang and I pick it up and I'd be like, Abu, the wire hasn't hit yet from Abu Dhabi. I'll let you know. My mom would be like, what? Yeah, that's, that's, that's the next level. I mean, my, my big moment during casting was, uh, I walked into Mark Burnett who was executive producer of the show. And I had, we had made it down to the top, like 50, right. The, from 2 million people down to 50. And where I walk into the first interview with Burnett and he basically walks in and I stick out my hand. I say, how you doing? I'm John Gafford. And he puts an M&M in my hand and then proceeds to just wreck me in the interview for the next like 15 minutes. So I

leave and I'm leaving. I'm like, ah, you know, that was a good run. I didn't get that. That's done. So I go back to my room and then a handler came down about two hours later and was like, they want to see you again. I'm like, all right, hang on a second. So I go to the mini bar, hit it real quick. I go, if I'm going out, I'm going on my terms this time. So I walk up, they had these two double doors, they were sitting behind and I just kicked the doors open, bam, doors hit the wall. And it's him and like all the NBC brass at the time, doors hit the wall. And I walk in and I just go, you know, let me tell you why you should put me on your little television show. I said, when you make an investment in me, you get back a hundred times what you invest. And I pulled a bag of M&Ms that I pulled out of the mini bar.

I threw him in his face and I said, thanks for the fucking M&M. And I walked out. That was it. And that was it. Yeah, because the first time I went in for a business interview, they wanted action. They're casting a reality television show, which brings me to my next. I put out this morning, because obviously being in the real estate space as I am, huge following within the real estate space.

And I put out this morning on Instagram, I was going to talk to you. And I said, what should I ask Ryan Serhan? And this question came up more than once because I'm going to tell you my contention and you tell me if this is wrong, because I don't know. In my contention, the way that we do real estate in Las Vegas has been ruined by million dollar listing. And let me explain to you why. And let me explain to you why. I'm going to tell you why. Because I know, no, I know that attorneys, I think, I don't know how real estate works in New York. I've never done a deal in New York. I think attorneys draft the contracts there.

Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Okay. You don't touch the contracts. Okay. So are the deals negotiated really over the phone? Like they are on television or are you sending LOIs back and forth? No, there's no LOIs. LOIs would be, I guess, in commercial. The commercial, yeah. Dude, in New York, the only thing that counts is the contract. So offers are done over the phone. They're done over email. I just negotiated this morning a $4,450,000 deal all over text. So that's really how it's done, just back and forth that way. Yeah. So in all of our other markets, so we're at eight states now, every other market,

you're signing a contract and you're negotiating and redlining the contract back and forth. And then you have escrow, right? You have escrow and you go to escrow and you have three days, seven days, whatever, inspection period and all that stuff, which is so weird for me, because I've spent, you know, 15 years negotiating deals by carrier pigeon up here, because New York is incredibly litigious, but it's also the wild, wild west and how things are done. And so, you know, you can get buyers to make verbal offers, just start the conversation, you know, so like an offer for me is, is someone officially submitting it, yada, yada, yada, they over an email, it's a proof of funds, they say, you know, here's my financial statement, we can afford it, our attorney information. But also like we have, you know, listings that are tough to sell all the time. And so one thing we'll teach to agents in

New York, which wouldn't work anywhere else, is you sit that buyer down on a couch, and you ask them what their number is. Right? It's $10 million. Okay. Every single person's told you it's overpriced. No problem. But I can see you love this house. What do you buy this for today? Just unofficially, what would you buy it for? I don't know. I'm not paying more than seven. Okay. No problem. Now I get to pick up the phone and call the seller. Say, listen, I had an official offer, but I got a verbal million bucks, right? Seven million bucks. And then the seller's like, well, I'm not selling for less than eight and a half. No problem. Let me call you right back.

Now I go back to the buyer. I'm like, Hey, listen, I know you didn't make an offer or anything, but I just actually told, talked to the seller and kind of said that you threw out seven. Um, uh, he, he like just dropped a million and a half off the ask over the phone, like eight and a half. And then the buyer's like, huh? Interesting. I do like this porch. I do like the, this, I do like the, this, um, seven and a half. And then maybe the seller's

interested, you know, never know. And now all of a sudden it's like, all right, let's get a turn. Okay. We're interested. Okay. Now I get it. So you can like manufacture deals that way in New York city, whereas in your market or anywhere else, I've got to say, are you ready to write an offer on this house or on this house? Here you go. And it's much more formal process, which I understand protects you a bit more because when the seller signs it, right,

it's, it's pretty one sided. Yeah. Uh, but I don't think I would have done the volume that I've done in my career. If I didn't have the ability to go to soft contracts so often. And those deals are not protected in any way, right? I could do that with 100 buyers. And then nothing is real until the seller countersigns that contract and accepts their wire and accepts

their deposit. And it's delivered. See, I wasn't sure if there was something in writing in my back and forth that that's really how it was. But of course, the problem we run into here is you guys, what you do on that show is the dream. Everybody wants to sell the big stuff. Everybody wants to have the driver. And so everybody tries to emulate. And in markets where contracts have to go back and forth, we'll get calls all the time

like, hey, just to ask yourself. It's like, bro, I can't negotiate an offer I don't have. And that's the standard language we have. So I'm glad you clarified that because that really is how it is. I will say, there are a lot of agents in New York who won't do that, who will say, well, I'm not going to talk to my seller until you submit officially because they don't want to waste their time. It could be totally a waste. I mean, it could be. And it's definitely been a waste of time multiple times where someone verbally says this or verbally said,

and then it doesn't happen. But if it's your listing, okay. Uh, I, at some point, like I almost don't even care if this guy buys it, but I care about is I have a real human who just threw out a number in their brand. They've seen a bunch of other stuff. Is it a low ball? Sure. But is it a realistic low ball? I don't know. Let's let's check comps. Now I actually have real feedback to give to a seller. Because the number one rule when you have a listing agreement is to just not get fired. So now I can go to the seller because what happens like you have a listing, no one shows up, no one makes offers, the seller fires you because you're like, well, you know, you didn't bring me one offer. So now at least I'm going to them and saying, I, that's not true. You wanted to list for 10.

We showed you the comps were between seven and eight. I had a person there for seven. And so now I'm at least keeping things moving forward. And that way they can't actually say that another agent is going to do necessarily a better job. Because we also then make sure the listing goes absolutely everywhere. It's global. Everybody knows about. So what are you going to do?

The other agents you're talking to never once brought us a single buyer so what do you think they're going to take nice nicer photos of the kitchen no right this is it's price presentation and patience it's those three p's and on the buy side even if they don't buy that listing you know i'm at least getting them verbally into talking numbers right it's like agents sit with a buyer for a year and like, well, I don't know how to close them. He was not ready to make an offer. I'm like, but did you ever get him really thinking about a number? Now he's thinking about, okay, well, they didn't take my seven. Yeah, that was low. But what about that last place? Or let's go see these places. And you get them thinking about like, Ooh, I was close. That's interesting. I didn't know I

could make a law. You know, it's, it's so interesting. You talk about low ball offers because I'm always shocked when agents get like, I am personally insulted by your low ball offer. It's like, dude, when you take a listing and I always preach this to our people, when you take a listing, it's, you never hang your hat on that price. It's, this is what we're going to go with. But listen, the market is going to accept or reject the pricing. The market is going to tell us. And so even those low ball offers, if the pricing is incorrect, or this is what the market is saying, use that offer to a, like you said, make yourself look good that you're, you're procuring offers, but B, if you need to adjust the price based on market feedback, that's the best way

to do it. I, it baffles me when they get upset about that. Yeah. And it's also, it's not on you. No. You can pick up the phone and say, dude, or honey, or hey, or however you talk, whatever your thing is. If I present this to my seller, they might surgically remove my left arm. So you got to help me here, you know? And then what's crazy to me too, is agents will make low offers and then you'll say, okay, I'm going to go do it. And then they're mean about it. Like they're angry about it. Like, well, you're, you're, you're missing isn't worth shit. I'm like, I don't, I don't understand. Like why, why be difficult? Like we're in this, you know, unlike sports, you know, you guys just had the super bowl where the end of the outcome is only one side wins.

In our business, I got to play for the other side to win because if the other side feels like they won and they've gotten over their ego and all their stuff, then by default, we win. It's a win-win game. How agents come to the table all the time and they're like, well, no, that's not good for me. And they come to win. They come out there swinging and I'm going to get you the absolute best deal. I don't work for the seller or the buyer. I work for the deal. We're all here to work for the deal. It is a win-win game. Great way to look at it. I want to move on to talk a little bit about Serhan because I respect what you've done there so much because I've done it. And when you go out and plant your own flag and build something great,

when did you start your own firm? Our firm is 11 years old. So we, we, we, we were very quickly number three in total volume within about two years. Um, and we recently have now become number two in volume. So we're very pleased with that. We'll never be number one because we're not a place where if you have a pulse and a heartbeat, you can work here. We actually do let people go

that are not performing. Do you have physical offices? We do. Yeah, we have multiple locations here in Las Vegas. We've got just at about 585 agents total. Just in Vegas? Just in Vegas, yeah. So yeah, it's a good deal.

But the point being with you is I look at everybody from all of the brands of Million Dollar Listing, and those guys are building some incredible businesses, but it's not their business. And you had the wherewithal to go out and plant your flag. So I want to talk about what the thought process was with that. Yeah. And walk me through that. I mean, it's a couple of things. One, six years ago, 2015, so seven, no more, nine years ago, Jesus Christ. I just started doing different types of things.

So for me, selling real estate was good. I could do it. But you're only as good as your last deal and you're just running all day long. You have a great year, then you have a terrible year, you have a great month and a bad month. I've always just wanted to control as much of my life as I possibly can. It's hard to do that as a broker. You can, as you build up a big book of business, right? You totally can build up a referral base, et cetera. But so we started doing education, right? Where we would teach salespeople how to sell. And we started doing that, you know, digitally. I put out, you know, cause I wrote my first book, Selt Like Sir Ant and turned that into a TV show and then turn that into a kind of an online course. And it's bigger than ever now. We have, I don't know, 20, 22, 23,000 people in that program and 128 countries now from Iraq to Tanzania to Vegas to California and so on. And so I was doing that while being a full-time real estate agent at the brokerage I was at. And then I was doing productions because I liked, you know, I like media.

It's what I moved to New York City for in the first place. So I had like my own videographers and I built, you know, Serhant Media Group. And so we were doing it for myself plus other agents. So I had all these different things going on while I was working at a brokerage and paying, you know, in New York City, the splits are low, right? They're low. And so you're, you know, you're at a 70, 60, 75% split're low. And so you're, you know, you're, you're at a 70, 60, 75% split, you know, and the company, you know, is making a lot of money on you, which is fine, because they, they provide a lot of resources. So there's a trade there.

And in New York, everyone, you know, you're just, you're good with it. And but I wanted to bring all of that under one roof. And so I started interviewing with other firms. And I was like, maybe there's maybe because I don't know what I don't know. And I'd never been anywhere else. I'd only been at my firm. And I built my team and done my thing. And I interviewed with all these other companies. And they just all sucked, man. Like they just I was just going to be a number there. It's just going to be an agent. I just have my license. It was all about the deal. And also, you know, you're different. but everybody that I spoke to, especially at the big firms, none of them sell real estate.

None of them had ever real estate. So they didn't know what it was like to have an open house that no one shows up to. And what do you do? They didn't know what it was like to get fired off a listing and your competitor gets hired and like, and what do you do? Right? Like they didn't know what it was like to constantly be creating marketing content. And like they, they, they paid for it, Like they didn't know what it was like to constantly be creating marketing content. And like they, they, they paid for it, but they didn't know what it was like.

And so I just didn't find another firm that really saw the future of this business the way, the way that I did. And then push came to shove in the summer of 2019. That year, you know, my GCI total as my team was like $20 million in 2019, just as a team. And, and I work seven days a week. How many units, how many units was that? I don't remember. I don't know. 800, maybe 700, something like that. We do, we do a lot of new construction, but we have a good average price point. Um, anyway, so it's the summer of 2019 and, um, you. And I work seven days a week. I don't see...

We just had my baby, but I still have Saturday office days. I'm at open houses. I'm running around all day Sunday. I don't do a lot of vacations at that time. I'm sweating in the office because the AC is broken. And I talked to this big agent who's based out in the Hamptons. He's like, dude, you must be crushing it this year. I was like, what do you mean?

He's like, did you see your boss's new boat? And there's a lot of reasons why I left and started my own company. But, um, uh, like that one, especially because we were crushing it. And at that point that summer, I already crossed a million in GCI. So I, and I never got an email. I never got a call congratulating me on deals. I never, they never reached out to me about anything that was beneficial other than what I could do more for them. Like, Hey, come talk at our event that we're doing for all these other agents. When I got to that company, there was like 30 agents by the time I got out of there because a million dollar listing and everything else was like 800. I didn't see, there's no benefit to me there. Um, and so I, I made like a rule to myself,

like one, no boats to, um, uh, I, I am so fucking grateful for every agent in the markets that we're in who has a choice of where to work and chooses us. Like we champion every single person's wins. And I want them to know that I will work harder than them too. They see me. I was in Canada this morning, right? Now I'm here. We just let our company webinar. I'm going to work all night tonight.

I'm going to work through the weekend. Like I want all of our agents to know that I lead by example and I will outwork all of them. So they never, ever, ever rest and say, oh, I made Sir Hannah a lot of money this year. I wonder what he's doing. Actually, I know exactly what he's doing. Cause he just sent me 15 emails and he has no life. Like that's, that's the sacrifice that I'm willing to make as, as we build right now. Um, I think, I think it's so funny you talk about that because most brokers spend so much energy and money and time trying to figure

out how to recruit new agents into their company. How are we going to continue to grow? How am I going to get the next person? And in reality, we have found over our 11 years, the best way to recruit new agents is to constantly recruit the ones that already work for you. Yeah. Yeah. What huge, that is a huge statement. And that's, that's awesome that you say it that way. Um, because it's true, right? You were, you recruit from within, you promote from within, right? You, you hire fast, fire faster, promote fastest. Um, you know, you, you really, you know, treat the people that you have who are there with you incredibly well so that they stay in and they want to have their friends come work with them. We grew, I don't know why I added 85 agents, 84 maybe in January.

I could tell you like 65 of those were just from other agents who are here bringing great producing friends to us. And then we interview them and we don't take everybody. Just like you said, you know, you don't either. And it's helped's, it's, it's helped. I don't know. Maybe it's not the right way to do it. Maybe I should be compass and just pay everybody off with oil money. I don't know. Um, only time will tell. Only time will tell, but well, you know what else is coming up? And, um, and I don't know if you can comment on this. I personally can't comment on it, but I'm curious what your thoughts are, which is the reason I can't comment on is because one of the copycat suits,

because we're so big here in Nevada, we're named in the copycat suit here in Nevada, but the commission, are you already named? So we won't even talk about it because obviously you can't talk about it either. So we'll move. Can we talk about it? Yeah, I think the class action lawsuits are public. I think they're out there. Yeah, they are. They're out there. What are your thoughts? You got named in New York's or Florida's? We got named in New York's. We got named in Brooklyn's. I don't think I was actually, I think we were so fresh.

We haven't even been, we didn't start expanding until, it's February now, so until March of last year, March, April. So it's been less than a year. So there'd be nothing to go after us for in other markets. And we've already changed up practices that way. You know, part of me says that one, everybody should just read them and understand. I think the media drives headlines, right. And not necessarily substance. So for the class action in New York City, I mean, there is no MLS here. Yeah. That's wild to me by itself. That's wild. Yeah. There's no MLS here. Why do you think we sent offers by turtle over here? So it's out there. I think it's going to change the way buyers, agents collect commissions, possibly. But I also think what it's going to do, especially in a tougher market, is it's probably going to push commissions higher because it's going to create this weird kind of convergence of incentives, right?

Where a buyer's agent actually isn't going to do the work unless they really get paid. And so that is actually not in the best interest of consumers. It's going to cost consumers more money. But the lawyers who file these lawsuits on behalf of whoever don't care about that. Who do you think made all the money in Missouri from these settlements? It's the lawyers. And they don't take 2%, 4%, 6%. They take 33% or greater. I've never been able to get 33% in my life. No, no, absolutely not. Do you think that- We're in a class action lawsuit against lawyers.

Good luck getting that filed. Do you think that NAR survives this? For those of you who don't know what that is, that's the National Association of Realtors. Do you think it survives? I don't know. My buddy, Jason Haber started the- With Mauricio. Yep. So he started a competitor group. I think they based it out of Texas. I think we'll see. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think people are happy with NAR. I don't think anyone's like, yay, NAR dues. Here we go. I know exactly what it's going to. I think there is bloated executive pay. And I think they had mass ego. And I think, you know, I think it was a travesty the way that they handled the case in Missouri. And clearly they've had issues ever since outside of the sexual harassment claims and everything else that's gone on. And so I'm fine if they get broken up. I think it's totally fine. I would be fine with what we have in New York. Are you just a member of NAR in Vegas or is there also- No, no, no. There's a state board of realtors.

There's a local board of realtors. We're going to be members of all of it. Yeah. So I don't know why, why we just can't be part of kind of city and state boards because that's where the transactions are getting done. And that's where we're paying the tax, right. To then have a national association that it doesn't really do anything for you other than force you to use certain MLSs and force you to use certain lock boxes. Like, I, you know, I don't know, but I'm not the best person to speak to it. So I just want to be careful because we're not members of New York city and it doesn't mean anything. Sure. All right, cool. Well, we'll, we'll, we'll move off that topic because I'm sure you probably are sick of thinking about it as I am.

So I was going to just want to put your opinion was. So let me ask you this, man, you were talking about earlier about your work ethic with where you're going to work all night. You're going to do this, blah, blah, blah.

How do you keep the wife happy when you work like that? How do you keep the fam? How do you keep the fam in line? What's how do you, how do you balance? Well, she's currently in Switzerland skiing, so she's having fun over there.

So you just send her a great vacations without you. That's a smart. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, they they were they're going to go to Greece. They go to Greece for the entire summer because they're they're Greek. You know, I I do. I don't know.

I do my best. I do my best. Saturday is for Xena. You know, I call it my my dadder day. You know, we try to do date nights. We try to focus, but I think we just try to have aligned expectations, um, about kind of where, where she is in her life right now, where I am in my life. And, you know, when I started the companies in 2020 and I left my

real estate agent life and team that I'd been so used to for 12 years, it's like, okay, I think things are going to be really hard for at least the next couple of years, maybe even longer than that, before I really understand what my new life means and how to operate it. Because I'm going to be so nervous about everything going forward. I'm going to want to just work all the time. You know, there's much bigger stakes now.

There's payroll now, right? We have overhead. We've got, you know, lots of people. My staff is like 140 people. Like there's, you know, lots of people. My staff is like 140 people. Like there's, you know, there's a lot of things I got to think about now. Um, and I just got to go all in. So do you want to go all in with me and, and bank on this for the longterm? Because if, if not, we should have that conversation. Um, and so, so it's, it's worked out from there. I wish I could be in Switzerland

right now skiing, you know, I, I, and I love that they are, I think it's awesome. I think it's, it's super, super cool, but I, I can't, I can't, you know, I there's, I just, just can't do it. Let me ask you this. Cause you're, you're a guy that grew up in Houston. Obviously, I mean, obviously where you are now, there's no way the financial situation you as a kid is the same as it is now. Obviously it can't be. Do you ever worry? Cause this is something that worries me a lot. Does it ever worry you that your kids are going to grow up without a real concept?

Like, how do you keep your, how are you raising your kids to not turn them into like lunatics? Cause that's always my biggest concern with my kids. Yeah. I think, um, uh, if you read if you read i think it was uh outliers by malcolm mcdowell he talks about the bell curve you know and how it was you know why the country has been built by immigrants because they had to build there's no choice right there was there was no choice you know the entire united states was was was founded by people who had a get up and go attitude. Neither you nor me have ever gotten so angry at our country that we got in a fucking boat for six months, dodged malaria, and drifted off into the great unknown to just go live in the woods and hopefully make things better.

Can you imagine? None of us. No one. you imagine like none of us, no one, I mean, some of us, sure. Some of us. Um, uh, I think that's why I'm so taken back. Like we have, we have, you know, uh, a lot of Iranian, uh, Iranian, sorry, agents in, in New York city, um, who like grew up, you know, during their crisis over there, you know, they're technically refugees. Um, you know, we take in, you know, Ukrainians over the past couple of years.

Cause I'm just like that, that, that DNA. Yeah. That is a great DNA. So anyway, to your, to your point,

um, uh, Xena has a great life. Daughter has a great life. That said, she is going to work. She's going to have jobs. Like she's going to,

if she wants something or she's four right now, but if she's going to want something and she gets older, she's going to do the same thing I did. You know, my parents could have bought me my first video camera. They said, I don't know, go work for it, figure it out. So I shoveled for 20 bucks a driveway, you know, in Boston. She's got to be a little careful because she lives in New York City and could be scary. Yeah. You know, but we're going to put her to work and really teach values and really talk. I think you just really have to talk and have open conversations with your kids and let them

learn from you and let them emulate you. And then just hope if you have that kind of a great relationship with your kids, they turn out to be good people. If not, you just return them. You just get a new one. Well, let's talk a little bit about Salt Like Sirhan, the first book. Let's talk about that because there was a couple of points in it that I really, really like. And the first one, which is, I think it really is, in my opinion, the number one thing that separates top performers in our industry from just getting by agents. And that's the ability to follow up. That is their relentless consistency and follow up. So talk about that. I know that's a huge point in the book. Yeah, dude, it's so funny. Like when I,

when I wrote the proposal in 2017 for that book, it was, first of all, it was called balls up. And I sold it to Hachette, the publisher. We had like four bids from different publishers. So I sold it to Hachette and they, they bought it. I wrote the whole book as different publishers. So I sold it to Hachette and they bought it. I wrote the whole book as balls up. So I had the word balls is in the book so much. That's the four balls in the air deal. Yeah, yeah, dude. All the balls in the air.

I mean, that's kind of how I've always thought about sales is how do you build the biggest volume so that really to protect your brain so that when a ball drops and the deal dies, it doesn't ruin your week or your day, right? So how do you build a system to handle as many deals as you possibly can? Um, so you have as many balls in the air as you can. So it's called balls up. And then, um, and then, you know, the world changed a little bit and the publisher was like, just so you know, you're changing the title and we changed it to, uh, to sell it like Sir Ham. Um, and then I would say, uh, you know, I have a follow-up system,

which is follow up, follow through, follow back the three F's talked about it my Sir Ham. Um, and then I would say, uh, you know, I have a follow-up system, which is follow up, follow through, follow back the three F's talked about in my whole life. Um, uh, you follow up with everybody until they buy or they die. You follow through with everything you say you're going to do. If you say you're going to get back to someone by 5 PM, you get back to them by four 59, right? You're only as good as your word in this business. You don't have a corner office and a big tower where people are like, Oh, but they're, you know, later on, maybe, maybe if you can afford not to return people's calls or emails, then good on you, I guess. And then you follow back with everybody. You've had a deals people miss because they forgot to follow back with a client that rented something two years ago or bought something from them or

the family that actually paid for that one client. And then the family goes and buys a house on their own to be closer to the daughter who now is pregnant with their first child, but she never followed back with them. So they use someone else that they met on a Sunday. Right? So that follow back process is really, really, really important. But I, you know, use email, text, phone calls, DM, socials actually made follow back much easier because you just follow your clients, right? That's a big thing. Like any client I've ever had, I immediately then, you know, follow them. So I can always follow back. That way it's like forcing me to remember. And then we have different follow-up systems and CRMs and all the stuff. But follow-up is

the secret sauce, man, to all selling of all things. So I got to ask you this because, man, I got to tell you something you just man, I got to tell you something you just said, which is, you know, always do what you say you will do. I don't know if it's since COVID or what, but it seems like there's an epidemic of people that just don't do what they say they will do. Yeah. I would say the majority of stress in my life revolves around people just telling me they will do something and just not doing it. And then looking at me, yeah. And then like, why am I surprised that you didn't do it?

That's like their surprise. Like, I don't get it. It's my biggest, biggest pet peeve. You know, I think it's because, and maybe it's for the better going forward. I don't know. I think people have a lot more opportunity today than they ever used to. I think social and the interconnectedness of this world has showed people that they don't just need to have one job their whole life and get paid a pension later on. Like, screw it.

I don't have to work here. I could go do whatever I want. I could do this. I could do that. I could make money on the internet. I could sell T-shirts on Etsy. I could go buy NFTs and flip them. You know, all that stuff

um but i do think that a lot of people feel like they should be treated and paid um uh what they deserve instead of being treated and paid what they're worth uh and there's a big difference there right huge difference difference i think i think acting like you deserve x y and z is very different than acting like you know i'm worth this because of this you know i think like that that takes into your book that takes you to the next book actually big money energy is really where that goes because now you're talking about mindset. Yes. Yeah. Big Money Energy, the first book, Sell Like Sirhan, basically took me 10 years because it started as my Sirhan team agent manual. And it was all the things that I said to clients that actually got them off the fence or that I said to a seller that got them to calm down or

every deal that I would do that would take 10 years off my life. I'd write it down so I wouldn't forget. And so I took that and turned it into Sell Like Serhant. And it took me a long time. Big Money Energy, I wrote during COVID while also building Serhant and building the brokerage and the education business and the production company and just did those kind of four things at the same time because I wasn't allowed to show property. In New York City, we were not essential workers and the fire department. So the FDNY and NYPD all got sick and they shut the island down. And so we were under, we were 100% convinced because the police were telling us like, Hey, you want to see the documentary of what's about to happen? Go watch. I am legend. And it's insane to say that now, but if you just go back in time, it was a wild time. And so anyway, I wrote big money energy

as the follow up to sell like Sirhan because it's kind of part of my, the idea, you know, my selling trilogy really to sell it like Sirhan is how to sell anything to anyone, how to sell real estate, how to sell insurance, have some mortgages, how to sell cars, how to sell pens. Um, uh, but it's a toolkit and you could have the toolkit and know how to use cars, how to sell pens. But it's a toolkit. And you could have the toolkit and know how to use it and have the confidence to use it. Or you can just put the toolkit in the closet because you're like, yeah, but I still don't have the confidence to do it. So big money energy was teaching people really how to project yourself two years into the future. The same way I did with Millionaire Listing. How do you be future you? How do you start acting like the person you know

you're going to become? How do you manifest that? And not just say it. Don't just walk in the room and say, I'm great when you're not. But how do you actually project yourself into the future so the person that people are meeting today knows how to use that toolkit and is actually putting it to work? How do you put yourself in those situations? You want to be a $10 million agent? How do you put yourselves in $10 million client situations? Right? Don't wait on the ladder. How do you how do you actually jump up that ladder and allow the world to give you what you're worth, right? Instead of instead of you just waiting for it. So that was that was big money energy. And put that out during COVID, which was also such a weird time, like, no book tour, no nothing. I was like

zooming up a storm for that thing. And then the completion to the trilogy is then branded like Sir Ant, which came out last week. Um, uh, which my third and final, well, hang on, don't, don't run away. Cause there's a couple of points in, in points in brand it like i'm sorry big money energy that i want to talk about because i thought and actually a couple things the first one i'm going to start with is you talk about acknowledging people is is a way to grow your network and i thought that was something that so many people lack and just they don't go about their day with intention when it comes to dealing with other people. And I wanted you to talk about that a little bit. Yeah.

So many of us speak to people and we listen to them so we can reply instead of listening to them so that we can respond to what they really want and really need. Right. And so I have always been a big believer and maybe it's because I've just always worked for free until I didn't. Like I never had it. I've never had a job my whole life. I never, no one ever paid me. I've never been paid hourly ever. Um, I've never had a salary ever. And so i've always kind of been in the mind of i have to give and give and give i have to acknowledge everybody the first thing i do when i meet anybody is is is i do the two c's right so the first c is i give someone a compliment give them a always right you disarm a lack of trust by complimenting somebody in a natural, organic, and authentic way, right? Not a bullshit way.

And then you find something in common, you know? And so I've always found that the more I acknowledge people and the more I give to them, right? And give to them, give to them, give to them. Then oftentimes you don't even have to go in for the ask, right? You don't, right? They're going to come to you because you're going to make yourself so aware and so known doing what you do best that they're just going to come to you because you're going to want to work with somebody that they like.

I think that's so important and so true. It's like if you just, one of the best ways, in my opinion, to grow your network is to be hyper-conscious that everybody you come in contact with, you leave them a little better than you, than they found you make them feel bright in the day, a little bit, a smile, something as easy as that, but just try to make everybody you come in contact with feel that they were important to you in that smallest of moment. Yeah. I think it's clutch. Second thing I'm going to say that I liked it. I like to be a book and I'm going to, I gotta be honest with you,

man. I made a little change in me because of this, that I, when I was prepping for this over the weekend, I'll tell you why. So I'm a member of several very high level mastermind groups across the country that I'm in. And they're full of,

I'm going to, I'm going to couple that are, that are heavy real estate based in a hub and a couple that are just heavy CEO base. And a lot of the guys that I've been running around with for the last couple of years, I'm going to call them the entrepreneur bro is what I'm going to call them. The entrepreneur bros. And you kind of get sucked in to like the hoodie. You get, you get sucked in to the Jordans. You get sucked in to this super casual, almost Silicon Valley look. And I found myself the other day after I read this, because I'm the first guy when one of my agents walks in wearing sweats, I'm the first guy to say, are you dressed for the

day you want or the day you have? I'm the first guy to say that. And I realized I'm like, man, I've been drifting too far into the entrepreneur look. So I got to get back to being me, which is custom suits when I'm at work every day. That's what I got to do. So reading that snapped me out of it. But talk about presenting yourself to the universe in a way to attract what you want. And always, not just dress.

Yeah. I mean, listen, you make a decision every day when you wake up. Am I going to go present myself to the world, uh, uh, putting myself first or putting the world first? That's, that's, that's the first me, act in a way that's comfortable for me, and make sure my first impression to the world is that I come first. My comfort, my feelings, my attitude, my behavior come first, and then you, or depending on your career, your life, what you want in the world, okay? Are you going out there and saying you come first? Client, agent, person at the gas station, I'm putting you first. I'm wearing a suit, not because I like love the way it feels on my inner elbows, but because I am putting you first, right? I respect your time to spend with me. Like I respect you and you didn't have to talk to me. You don't have to talk, you know,

like, so I'm going to respect you. This is my respectful outfit because I put you first. When I get home and I'm by myself, right? Which I'll be tonight. That's my family's Switzerland. When I get by myself, I don't wear a suit for myself.

Like I'll be in gym shorts and a sweatshirt or something because it's cold in this state. And I think that, you know, your ability to understand respect takes you really far and helps you present yourself to be the person that you want to be and then attract that type of business. So, and again, it depends. We have agents up and down the coast of Florida. No way on earth are they comfortable wearing suits and ties because it's 95 degrees, right? And so they blend in. We have agents that are on golf courses. I'm sorry, the same way you do, right? They blend in. It's assimilated and associated marketing. And so in New York city, for me, I'm surrounded by people who are suits. So I could show up super comfortable and there's tons of agents here who are, who do that and do it well. Just hasn't been what's worked for me. Yeah. I find that again, you know, I always preach

like, look at Superman, right? He doesn't go fight crime in the Clark Kent suit. He puts on the Superman suit. And I find that when I make that transition from my sweats in the morning to this look, when I show up, I'm ready to go. This is my superhero outfit. So that's how we do it. Well, let's talk about the new book, which is on shelves now. I want to make sure everybody goes out and buys it as many copies as they humanly can. Talk about Brandon likes her sir hand talk about it so it's it's the completion of my selling trilogy it is it is the idea that

you can know how to sell whatever you want to sell you can have the confidence to sell it but then if no one knows what you're selling or knows you yeah you could have all the tools and all the confidence in the world. You're never going to make any money and you're going to go back into the rigmarole of your life, right? You fall back into whatever that second chance was that you, that you had that second career. Um, uh, and so I, I said, I'm, I went to college, but I also am a big believer that there is a future past higher education and that there are so many ways to earn a living today, to find happiness today. And so I saw a stat five years ago.

Yeah, five years ago, right when we started Celtics, right? Actually, from the U.S. Department of Labor that said that 23% of US taxpayers file a 1099. And I was like, that seems like a lot. Yeah. I think, you know, like it seemed aggressive. Like I just like, really? Now that now some of them, I'm sure a lot of them also file a W-2, right? Or they also have K-1s, what have you.

But 23% making enough money to be filing a 1099, that's interesting. Okay, so what's it going to be in the future? Today, it's 36%. By 2027, the U.S. Department of Labor is estimating that well over 50% of U.S. taxpayers are going to be filing a 1099 tax return, which means they're going to be selling something. And so I just look around at the world. I see how things are changing. And

that's, listen, that's real estate agents. That's social media influencers, right? That's authors. That's car salesmen. That's anyone who makes money by working for themselves in some way, shape or form, right? Doing work, put out work, you get the, you know, you get the commerce back. And so I looked around and I was like, how do, okay, so 50% of the US economy is going to be classifying themselves in some way, shape or form as a gig workers, as a salesperson of something, um, uh, they're not going to college. How do they learn how to do that? And how do they learn how to build their store? What does that store look like digitally? And so I looked around, I'm like, okay, so how, how does a real estate agent, a mortgage broker car sale, how to, how do all these gig workers

actually build brands? And there's like one brand book from 10 years ago. There's another brand book in the 90s. They're just dated now. I couldn't find anything that really gave me tactical information on how to build your personal brand or your products brand using the tools and resources we have at our fingertips today so that you can go out and you can make more money, right? And you can actually build your own brand that could build enterprise value for yourself. Like, how do you, how do I use TikTok? What do I, what do I put on there? How do I figure out what my brand foundation is? How do I understand that there for every product, I have to come up with the character of that product to first understand what my target market audience

is before I ever run a digital ad. Like, how do I, how do I even do all that stuff? And so that's brand that likes your hand. It's, it's, it's,

you know, I spent years putting it together. I'm actually pretty delayed in putting it out to the publishers amusements in me. Um, long time. And, uh,

uh, it's my biggest, most tactical book ever. And it's my biggest, most tactical book ever. And I really put it out there to help anyone who sells anything or wants to or aspires to, to build their lives as an entrepreneur. Yeah, I'm going to completely agree with what you just said. that I was talking about a minute ago. I would say that with the exception of the incredible stratosphere, high net worth clients that we have, that we've met through them, most of the guys that I know

that have just built something and are very, very wealthy today are all experts at copywriting, media buying, and understand marketing. And none of those things you have to go to school for. I mean, this summer, I had my son intern with the guys that own VShred. You've probably seen the guy Vince coming down your social media feed, if you probably have. They're probably the best digital marketers in

the world. And those guys are both self-taught. They both just learned how to do it. So I think that is the skill set that is imperative going into the new economy. Agreed. And this book that you've written, I think is going to be up there with one of the best that are currently out there with Hermosi's books and this. I think it's just going to be invaluable.

I agree. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate it. Well, Ryan, dude, it was a great conversation, man. I enjoyed it. And I know the listeners enjoyed it. And dude, anytime you're in Vegas, man, you need anything from me, you let me know. All right. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. All right. Have a great day. Guys, make sure you tune in again next week. We'll have another great guest. And remember,

man, if you are just drifting along on the currents of life, man, escape the drift. Start swimming. It's not that hard. We'll see another great guest. And remember, man, if you are just drifting along on the currents of life, man, escape the drift. Start swimming. It's not that hard. We'll see you next time. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it.

Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escapingthedrift.com. You can join our mailing list. But do me a favor. If you wouldn't mind, throw up that five-star review. Give us a share. Do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully, you'll be here for us.

But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.