Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - From Tech Hustle to Tranquil Coaching: Jack Landry's Journey to Purpose and Balance

Starting point is 00:00:00 Right now, the world is inundated with online coaches. It's just inundated, right? So how do you look at that and say, I'm just going to dive into this thing and I'm going to be different? And what was your, did you feel was unique enough about what you were doing that you wouldn't get lost in the sea of that stuff? And now, escaping the drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford and Ivan Nack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets. help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the drift, and it's time to start right now. Back again, back again. Another episode of like it says in the opening man, the show

Starting point is 00:00:41 that gets you from where you are to where you want to be. And today on the podcast, beaming alive from the power of the interwebs man, in from Bali, Indonesia. This is a dude that spent a lot of this early time as what a super engineer, if you will, at Google, and then left that on a quest, if you will, to help high performing people. I'm talking about like CEOs, tech founders, former athletes, big time players that just weren't quite feeling aligned with their life, achieve everything they wanted to do. He is the founder of the Moved Network. That's M-O-V-E-D, moved.

Starting point is 00:01:21 And today we're going to talk about, which is very much in line with what we do on this show, how to get yourself aligned, how to get your mindset straight, how to get your mindset straight, how to get you back on the right track we're looking forward to talk to them ladies and gentlemen welcome to the program this is jack landry jack welcome in john thanks so much super excited to be here and yeah man i wish i had stumbled upon upon your podcast about five years ago because i i really could have used it back when i felt like i couldn't break through break free out of the system so yeah i just appreciate you first and foremost creating the space for people to hear this type of message for them to hear you know that they don't have to just stay in the

Starting point is 00:01:59 drift of life and super excited to get into it today. Well, cool. You're beaming into us from Bali, Indonesia. What's happening in Bali? Just vacation? Sure. So I just got married actually just over a month ago. So I got married.

Starting point is 00:02:12 I'm out here with my wife. And yeah, my business is online. Her business is online. So we were living in Miami. Our lease came to an end and we figured we'd just take some time, travel. So we'll probably be out here for at least six months. Honestly, our goal is we have a couple different goals with each of our business. business and we're really just going to stay out here until we get to those goals.

Starting point is 00:02:34 Super great environment for just locking in, focusing not a lot of distraction. Usually when we're awake, everybody else on the East Coast is asleep. So it works out well. We can grind, also enjoy a nice lifestyle. So that's why we're out here. Yeah, the phone doesn't ring quite so much when that happens. Yeah, definitely not. So it's been peaceful.

Starting point is 00:02:53 Makes life a little bit easier. Well, let's talk about this, man. So you were a pretty successful guy at Google, one of the, the engineers there. You were doing pretty well. What happened with you that made you decide you needed to make a change? Yeah, when I first started my career, and first and foremost, I've kind of frame a little bit of my story for who I feel like it's best tailored to, which is ultimately who I used to be. But I was in a place where I felt like a lot of men where they're unmotivated. They don't feel like they have the discipline. They don't feel like they have the direction and the

Starting point is 00:03:25 clarity for where they're heading next. And this is who I'm typically best served to help through my coaching, but also that's exactly who I was. So at the time when I started my career, I was working with Fidelity Investments, doing software engineering. And then when I was with Google, what I did was, I was doing machine learning, data engineering once again. And even from the beginning at Fidelity, I knew I really didn't want to have to take orders

Starting point is 00:03:51 from another man because I grew up in a leadership position. I was the oldest of six kids, and then I always played football my entire life, sports in general, but football into college. So I was always around that team environment, always had opportunities to lead, and always just love the ability of taking something that I had, taking a vision, putting it on paper, and then actually building it out, architecting it. So I knew that was something I wanted to do. I just didn't know the path.

Starting point is 00:04:19 I had the tech background. I had some background in finance that I had gotten not only from undergrad, but also from working with Fidelity. So some of the initial ideas that I was exploring were like the intersection between tech and maybe building a platform that could be used by my brother's venture capitalist or something in private equity space. But none of those obviously came to fruition. But it was, yeah, it was really that desire to be independent and do something on my own.

Starting point is 00:04:51 And I had that from an early age in my career. And then I read the book, Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, a classic that everybody knows. And that was just when I was like, all right, if this is my desire, let me get super clear on it and start to figure out, like, how I can move in that direction every day. And by the time I had gotten to Google, I actually figured out a way where I can go and do this exact same work, self-employed. So it was like the first step into doing my own thing. and then from there I was able to step into my now business which is coaching men helping them step into their full God given potential so it was that progression that I went through well I know that it said in your bio sheet you did play D1 football and you had some pretty serious injuries before that so I think first of all walk us through that but I think part of it's innate right I mean part of this just got to be who you are yeah yeah so I had three back fractures lumbar spine lower back in high high school had to wear a full torso back brace for over a year and then the same thing happened freshman camp i was like the little white guy walk on basically got a invite to camp like a week before

Starting point is 00:06:01 they started went down there was crap in my pants about having to take the take the um endurance cardio test crushed it out of the park and then like 30 days later i had two more fractures and was in the back brace for over a year again. And my dad was pivotal in my life because he taught me if I set my mind to something and it's so cliche, but if I set my mind to something and I showed up for it, that I could achieve it. And so I had the back fractures. They didn't heal in the time frame that we were expecting. And I was also on a scholarship with the Air Force. So the Air Force was paying me over the span of three years, $60,000 to not only be in the their program, but then I would have a guaranteed job with them coming out of college,

Starting point is 00:06:50 which at the time I thought was some nice perks. And they came to me and they were like, because of the back injury, you can't continue playing football. So it's either Air Force, the scholarship, the guaranteed job, or you continue with football where you don't even know if you're going to play. You don't even know if you're going to heal. You're a walk on anyway. So like what's the point?

Starting point is 00:07:11 How much playing time are you going to get? Was this the Air Force Academy? Is that where you were? Um, no. So I was at a school called Elon University in North Carolina. And then they had, um, at one of their brother campuses, they had an ROTC program through that school. So, um, I wasn't like enrolled in the academy or anything, just doing the ROTC program. But yeah, I had a conversation with the commander. He was giving me a hard time basically saying I wasn't going to play anymore. And long story short, I ended up dropping that scholarship because my, from, from, from an, like in an early age, I always want to be able to, he was giving me a hard time basically saying I was going to play anymore. And long story short, I was going to play. And long story short, I was wanted to play in the NFL. At that point, like I had realized, this isn't, this isn't, I don't have the God-given gifts for that, but I knew I could at least play at the D1 level. So I told myself I was at least going to go through the rehab, get on the field and see how I responded. And even there came a point where my head coach, after like a year and a half of still being

Starting point is 00:08:04 in rehab was like, listen, buddy, I probably would hang up the cleats if I was you. And I told them, honestly, until you tell me I have to leave, I'm going to continue and at least get back on the field. So that was what I did. And ultimately, the lesson there, that was kind of the foundational experience of my personal development because it taught me that it doesn't matter what anybody else says. If I set my mind to it and then I persevere and I'm willing to continue through the adversity, that may be a span of one month, six months, three years. But if I figure out ways to slowly improve every single day, then that next level, that breakthrough that I'm looking for is going to come as long as I continue, and I have a will to win and a refusal to quit.

Starting point is 00:08:48 You know, when you first made decision to start coaching stuff, I mean, like, let's, right now, the world is inundated with online coaches. It's just inundated, right? So how do you look at that and say, I'm just going to dive into this thing and I'm going to be different? And what was your, did you feel was unique enough about what you were doing that you wouldn't get lost in the sea of that stuff. Yeah. Online coaching can be tough and there's a lot of scammers too who they do one thing. They put a little certification on the resume and next thing you know they're, or they make $10,000 a month. Next thing you know they're coaching other people to build a $10,000 a month business. So you've got to be careful. First and foremost, build a relationship with the

Starting point is 00:09:31 person. Results speak for themselves. So what type of results, testimonies does this person have? but also like what's their level of vulnerability and authenticity with their own story, their own past, what they're doing right now. That's huge. So for me, I got to a point where I was sitting, I was sitting, it actually, it was, I was actually at Amazon. That was my last stint before I went to be self-employed. So while I was sitting at Amazon, I was looking at all these people around me.

Starting point is 00:10:01 And I was like, all these guys are basically. myself included just like a number in the system and their bosses everybody around them is dictating how they show up and the things that they allocate their time and energy towards and specifically at amazon it was a very cutthroat environment where it's like i'm competing against every other guy around me there wasn't much of a team environment and so i saw people come into work daily where the only thing they focused on was their career and during that time that's when i was getting in the best shape of my life, becoming aware of my emotions, working on becoming more self-aware. I was dropping vices, drinking, smoking, chasing hookups. I was pursuing a

Starting point is 00:10:46 relationship with God. And I saw how, number one, I was able to do all of this while still performing at the peak in my career. But number two, I saw how that dramatically impacted, first and foremost, my character, who I was as a man. And then it also opened up additional opportunities, not only in my career, but also just with my relationships and the people in my life. So I felt like I was in a strategic position where I've walked in this path that a lot of busy professionals have walked in. They haven't been able to figure it out. And that's what originally brought me into the coaching. And it just started as just fitness and nutrition for high performers. And it's now since transformed into this place where I'm helping men specifically.

Starting point is 00:11:29 and I'm helping those. I've had a long journey and went pretty deep in my faith over the past three, four, five years. So specifically helping men step into their God-given potential in every single area. And it all boils down to the same. It's physical, mental, spiritual, your relationships, your career.

Starting point is 00:11:47 So that was kind of my experience that put me in a place where I was positioned to help these people. What's the number one thing that you see when people come to you and they're out of alignment? Like, what do you see is the biggest cause? of that. I think a lot of people, the number one thing that's keeping them out of alignment is they expect that just by showing up and putting in more time and effort into their career, that's the number one thing that's going to get them to the place that they want to be, whether that's

Starting point is 00:12:16 more money, a promotion, getting to a new job. And what they're doing is they're basically just cultivating burnout. So I have no problem with like showing up and working 60, 70 hour weeks. if that's required. And I've had periods in my career where that is what I did. But ultimately, what you're doing when you recharge your body, like that's the foundation. You can think of that as just the physical part of who we are. It's almost like that's the physical body is the car. The mind is the engine. And every time I'm taking care of my physical body, I'm fine-tuning the car, making sure things are running smoothly. When I'm taking care of the body, now that's also going to put my in a good place. So I have better clarity, better focus, better energy, more creativity,

Starting point is 00:13:04 more charisma with the people who I'm interacting with on a day-to-day basis. All of that's going to help me elevate in my career. It's not just like burning the candle on both sides. So that's what I typically see where people are struggling the most and actually getting to the point where they realize this, doing these things that are not related to my career is actually going to help it. Well, I think for me, the people that I run into that have an issue, It's about alignment. They don't manage, like you said, their time very well. They're not good at understanding, you know, I think the 60-70-hour work week, the grind, grind, grind.

Starting point is 00:13:41 I think that's dead. I think that in this day and age with the things that we can do, if you're working that hard, then you're not working smart. I mean, if I had somebody, we have a lot of people that work for us here. And if somebody told me they were pulling 60 hours a week, for me at this point, I'd be like, what are you doing? like how are you like this doesn't make sense you're probably the wrong seat just by what you just told me with that is what right but i think that i agree with you in the fact that people get so caught up especially high performers they get tunnel vision in one direction and then they they let go of other things i mean i've known people over the years that have gotten incredibly they just get

Starting point is 00:14:20 one day they wake up and go i'm going to get incredibly focused about my fitness and their business goes to shit. Or their personal relationships go out the window because they go to work all day for eight hours and then they're in the gym for two hours. And my wife is like, I haven't seen you in a month. It's like, yeah, yeah, but I'm getting abs. You should be happy. I'm getting abs. Be happy about it. And it's like, no, dude, I want to see you. So I think having people understand that. One of the exercises, I stop saying things are mine because I don't remember where I get things anymore because I get so much stuff. But there's an exercise where there's a piece of paper and then around that piece of paper, it's like your personal life, your physical life,

Starting point is 00:15:01 your spiritual life, your fitness life, and you go all the way around. And then you go out on a chart, you know, 10 being perfect and one being very bad, and you rank all of those things. And then you draw a line connecting them that if you are in alignment, it should be sort of a circle. And I think when people do that exercise, they see that wheel just kind of rolls up on its side because a big part of that is going to be flat because you're neglecting stuff. So when you get a high performer, how do you help them find that balance? Yeah, it's super awesome. You mentioned that.

Starting point is 00:15:33 I actually call it the wheel of life. I do it with myself and my clients. But, yeah, I found that from John Hardy wrote the compound effect. That's at least. That's where I got. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right.

Starting point is 00:15:45 book in me just building small habits. But I think first and foremost, you also need to identify the root cause of the problem. And for a lot of people, what they've done is they've created an idol, which is now their work and their career. So we all tend to have idols, which is just something that takes the throne of our life.

Starting point is 00:16:08 And if you ask anybody, like why they're actually working, probably if they were in their right mind and took a second to think about it, It's to support their family, live a specific lifestyle, right? The career is supposed to feed into this bigger life that they're hoping to enjoy. But then for a lot of these top performers, when you look at how they're spending their time and energy, it's like, where is this career feeding into the other areas of our life because you don't have any of them?

Starting point is 00:16:37 So that's the first place where we sit down is like, do you have any idols in your life? and where is your time and energy being spent? Where would you like it to be spent? I do that exact exercise you just talked about where in your perfect state, I call it a vivid vision. As a man, like what do you want your life to look like and who do you want to be in each of these areas, physical, mental, spiritual, career relationships, all those areas.

Starting point is 00:17:03 Define that. Put it on paper. What would your life look like? What would you look like as a man, your character? And then let's actually see how each day is measured. measuring up to that vision and where it's not, let's reallocate time and energy. And this isn't a split of 10% across every single area. I think balance is stupid. The term I like to use is harmony where maybe 70% of my time does need to be spent on my career right now. But the other 30% is 10%

Starting point is 00:17:32 with relations, 10% with my physical, 10% on lifestyle or building a side business. So yeah, making sure first and foremost they actually know like where's the problem where's the misalignment where do I potentially have idols and now that I know that let me get clear on what I would like it to look like that vivid vision and now let's reallocate our time and energy and efforts in that direction it's funny since we've been on here now for what 17 minutes and we're talking about the vision which is Cameron's book and yeah a friend of the show great guy and it's funny because I like I don't even care that you're talking about that And this is in the coaching world anymore and in the self-help world, I don't know that there's anything new.

Starting point is 00:18:13 I don't know that anything new comes up. You know, I had Ari Maizel on here not too long ago, and I was talking about something I do is I silence all of the, all of the, you know, the apps on my phone. So I get no notifications. So I don't get distracted. And Ari's like, where'd you get that? And I go, I don't know. I don't know if I came up with it or whatever it goes, my book. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:32 I just started laughing, right? But that's okay, right? Because I think if you have a mission to help others, we're all, like, all the information is out there. We all kind of get it. We put it together a different way. And our job as coaches and mentors of other people is to find people that resonate with our personal frequency so they can hear that message and absorb that.

Starting point is 00:18:54 Right. Because the way that you coach somebody is not the way that somebody else would do it. Or even if the information is relatively the same, it's different because it's on a different frequency and everybody responds differently i think that's people that are outside this business or are skeptical of what you kind of do you know it's like oh it's all the same and everybody says the same thing yeah they might say the same stuff but it's how they say it and how they go about cause that transformation and you've got to find you know you may love country music you may love rap i don't know message might be the same but if you don't hear it it doesn't matter so what what do you

Starting point is 00:19:33 do on that tone next we're getting into a question with that what do you do to see if you know you have the right frequency with the people that you're coaching you just put it out to the masses and see who shows up or what do you do yeah yeah typically i also like you said a lot of the things we talk about there they've already been out there but i heard once like we're best positioned to serve the personally once were so typically it's guys who walked a similar path as me guys who were athletes, either in high school or college, guys who were kind of like the classic jock, even when they moved into the working world. And guys who kind of worked hard, party hard. So, you know, I would go out, drink heavy, smoke, chase hookups. And that was kind of

Starting point is 00:20:21 my story. I'm pretty vulnerable about that. I think there's power and vulnerability because now if me sharing what I've been through gives another guy the ability to relate, and especially as men, something we struggle with, at least when I grew up. And I think probably it's not as bad as it used to be, but even when I grew up, it was still this case. Like masculinity was like, you've got to be the tough guy. Don't cry. Don't show your emotions. And so most men aren't very good at sharing where they're at right now. So for me to lead from that position, it's like, all right, this dude is actually in the same place that I used to be. Now I can relate to him. And so that's typically what I look like, guys who either were in a similar position as I was

Starting point is 00:21:03 or who want the same things as me, which I'm also very clear on like, this is where I'm heading and this is what's important to me. So, you know, I have a wife. I want to have a family. God is the most important thing in my life. Physical health, mental health matters, time freedom, and financial freedom matters to me. I don't want to sit at a desk. I want to be able to travel of the world. So I'm very clear about where I was and then where I'm heading. And then typically just the messages that resonated with me, like the problems that I'm dealing with and how I'm overcoming them, the solutions that I'm finding today, I'll talk about those. So like, you know, dealing with perseverance or adversity and how I'm rewiring my mindset right now in this moment,

Starting point is 00:21:43 that's something that I'll talk about. And whoever that resonates with typically ends up being best for the program. Yeah, it's funny you talked about working with athletes. I'm friends with a guy that has a program in Orange County called Game Time, and they connect current athletes, you know, newly retired athletes with hedge fund managers. And it's a really cool program of what they do. And they've got a lot of cool projects they're doing across the country. And I was at one of their meetings in Orange County.

Starting point is 00:22:12 I don't know, man, this is maybe nine months ago. And they had met a world peace talking and somebody else. And they were talking about when these guys said, the problem with pro athletes, from a developmental standpoint, is from the time that you are 16 years old, 15 years old, whenever you are the best kid on your team, however, whatever age that is, you are told you are special from that moment going forward. And if you are good enough to make it to the pros or have some level like that, you're not living real life, like you're just not. And then when it abruptly stops at the end of that retirement, you're kind of at a place where mentally you're still, like you stopped developing when you were that 15 year old kid. And this is now the fantasy land is over and the real world smacks you in the face, which is what he was saying. The league doesn't, the leagues, all of them, don't do a good enough job by preparing these guys for the real world when it stops. So of some of the athletes that you've coached and some of the people that you work with, do you see that?

Starting point is 00:23:13 Yeah, it's really an identity shift because their identity is completely determined by how they perform, but it's also it's shaped by this character that they were as a performing athlete and is somebody who everybody knew, who was applauded and praised for what they did. And then I even saw this with some of my buddies who I played college ball with, all of a sudden that's over and they don't even know who they are. And I think it's hard to get, it's easy to get lost and actually like the work that you're doing. And it's the same with anybody. But because there's such a pedestal and a light on athletes, it's so much easier to let your career become your identity.

Starting point is 00:23:59 Oh my God. Yeah. Amen. Yeah, I've seen that with athletes. And they never really sat down to figure out like, you know, when nobody's, when nobody's looking, when I don't have a name to myself. but I'm just in regular day-to-day interactions with people, like who do I want to be and how do I want to show up, like what's actually important to me outside of the accolades

Starting point is 00:24:22 and what I can put on my resume. So it's almost that process of rediscovering and also like rediscovering other skills they have. Like some guys, you know, they are great communicators. Other guys, they have that leadership ability. You see a lot of athletes, they really don't want to be in a leadership position, but some of them do. And as we start to identify those skills, opportunities for other doors and other avenues for them to express, you know, these skill sets that they have, they end up opening up.

Starting point is 00:24:54 Yeah, I think in my book that's coming out, November 11th, or whatever it is, November 11th coming out, you can buy it anywhere now, pre-order. Same name, escaping the drift by Barnes & Noble, Amazon, wherever you want to buy it, it's coming out distributed by Smith Schuster. Thank you very much, Smith Schuster. I have a whole section of it that talks about, and it's not just athletes, it's not. At one point in my life, I ran what Esquire Magazine called the coolest nightclub on the East Coast United States, which was a place called Covalt Lounge in Atlanta. And then, unfortunately, Super Bowl came and Ray Lewis had some issues there. You may remember.

Starting point is 00:25:27 You may not be able enough to remember that, but Ray Lewis had some issues. Yeah, that was my spot. And, yeah, anybody says any publicity is, I used to joke, anybody that says any press is good for us, never tried to run Cobalt Lounge because yeah it didn't you had this nightclub went from the hottest place in the world to I mean just off the edge of a cliff and I talk about a couple months after it closed I went to the opening of a new bar in midtown Atlanta that's something I'd done a million times and I walked up to the door and the guy that was there I did not know which was very rare for me in Atlanta I didn't know this this guy working the door and I said yeah man hey I'm here to see you know

Starting point is 00:26:08 blah, about Ray, whatever it was. And he goes, yeah, and I said, Ray, I'm just telling him it's John from Cobalt. He goes, Cobalt. He goes, that place went on my business like three months ago, back in the line. And something is, like, somebody that would hear that or read that and say, like, well, that's really stupid. But in that moment, my whole identity got crushed, like, is I would, I wasn't John. I was John from Cobalt. And the lesson in that was, you know, and I tell people this all the time, you cannot base your identity on something you cannot control.

Starting point is 00:26:37 like base your identity on being a good father base your identity on being a great confidant based on being the best husband on being the best that you can be that nobody can take away from you because when you base it on a job or a profession it can change on a dime man if you're an athlete one wrong step one bad tackle life's over you know it just changes that quick and and same thing If you are employed by somebody else, if you're employed by your own company, it can go out of business that day. So don't attach who you are to what you do. And it's funny, when I go to, when I go to networking events, this is how I'm always memorable instead of forgotten at these networking events. I walk around, people walk up to me and I go, oh, tell me about you.

Starting point is 00:27:26 And you get the elevator pitch, right? Oh, I'm Jack Landry. I help men achieve whatever, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Sorry, not what you do. tell me about you man tell me about who you are and then people are just always so stunned by that question half of them don't know the answer half of them couldn't even like who am i in this setting i don't know it's like they don't know i'm like i don't give a shit what you do until i care you are as a person i don't care yeah yeah it sounds like ed in my let too and i think also with

Starting point is 00:28:04 the career, not only being something we attach ourselves to, it's the accomplishments as well. And that's something that I had to rewire out of myself because there was always a bar that I was consistently moving forward. And no matter how I showed up the previous day, I was always unsatisfied and unfulfilled because I felt like I was never enough, but also my worthiness and the quality of my day was determined by what I accomplished and what I got done. And ultimately, that left me with a bar that continued to always move forward. And there was like never peace in the work that I was doing. So that was something I had to remove myself and my identity from as well was, sure,

Starting point is 00:28:45 the career may not be important, but it's like what am I accomplishing and is that driving my inner worth? Well, how did you teach yourself to fall in love with the process? Because that's what it, in most cases, that's the problem is you're only chasing the result instead of loving the journey. Yeah. So how do you change that? Well, when we get so focused on the destination, then once again, there's always that lack of unsatisfaction or lack of fulfillment.

Starting point is 00:29:11 And when we finally do get there, there's always another one. Like if you look around and you see somebody who's doing the work that you're doing, or maybe it's you're building your physique in the gym, there's always going to be somebody who you could say is doing it better or who has had more success no matter what level you get to. and so focusing on that destination it's just fleeting it's never going to sustain and also what it's going to do it's going to distract and it's going to pull away your energy from like the real work that needs to be done and that was the biggest realization that caused me to shift because I was like what I need to do to actually get to this place is here right now in this moment it's in the process and if I'm right here present focused then I'm starting to become more. in tune with every single rep that I'm doing and I'm starting to see all of the feedback that's

Starting point is 00:30:05 available to me. So whether I fail or succeed in the process, what that's doing is it's giving me more feedback. It's ultimately pushing me closer to the solution. Even if I have failure three, four weeks in a row, that's telling me more about what's not going to work, telling me more about what will work. And so, yeah, just becoming obsessed with the process and knowing that it's like hitting the lottery. If you hit the lottery, like you get to the destination, but none of the foundational framework that's going to help you sustain that level of monetary success has been built. That's why you see so many people who hit the lottery and they just go broke because they have no idea how to manage money. So it's understanding that what you're building right now is

Starting point is 00:30:47 not only building a foundation for you to get to where you want to be, but ultimately it's building the consistency and the discipline that's going to keep you at that level. What I think people also fail to see the joy in the process. Like, for example, my son is going to go to college next year and we're talking about rushing a fraternity. And I told him, I said, listen, I said, it was like, God doesn't suck to be a pledge. And I'm like, well, luckily for you, 20 years, many, many lawsuits later, it's probably a little easier than it was when I went through it, not 20 years now 30 years ago, whatever it was. But, you know, I told him, I said, listen, I said, when I was a pledge at my The brothers beat the absolute crap out of us. I mean, they just absolutely made our lives

Starting point is 00:31:31 miserable for a whole semester, right? But the problem was, I never had more fun in that fraternity than I did from when I was a pledge. Like, even though they're beating, they're killing you, right? They're relentlessly after you. You're never closer to any other group of people because your pledge brothers are going through going through it with you. You're going killed with them. And then once you become a brother, it's just kind of you're there, the drama of it. And you don't realize the value and the experience. And you normally, that's that way until it's over. I mean, I guess it was like Ed Helms on the office said, the problem with the good old days is

Starting point is 00:32:10 you don't realize you're living until you're gone. Yeah. Is what happens. And I think finding joy in the pain, looking for those moments in the process, that's the key. So, but obviously, you're never going to get there if you're stuck in a book. bunch of bullshit. One of the things that I know you really emphasize was helping people get past vices. What's your, what's the program for that? Yeah, it really depends on the person because when we think about vices, we think the problem is like the blacking out, the being high

Starting point is 00:32:41 every single night of the week, the going to the club, chasing women, being on on the internet scrolling porn hub, but that's just the expression of the problem. The problem is typically some emotional cause and a lot of the time some of the common ones you see is like guys are super lonely so that's why they'll go to the drinking or they'll look for these quick fix relationships guys are dealing with anxiety around their work or a lot of them are super insecure in who they are they have no confidence so the alcohol is a great advice the weed is a great advice because it kind of dims your problems you forget about them for a moment so yeah it's first getting to the root of the expression is the vice but really what's the emotional thing that's causing that and it starts

Starting point is 00:33:28 with i have to actually acknowledge it within myself and see it and that's where a lot of guys are which is they haven't even gotten to the place of realizing damn i'm i'm full of anxiety related to my career and because of that i come home and i smoke a joint every single night or i have no confidence with women and because of that that's why i have to have at least three drinks at the bar to have a conversation with anybody. They haven't even got to that point of identifying that weakness or that emotional constraint within themselves. And so now we have identified it.

Starting point is 00:34:00 They have to actually move into a place of accepting it. And then there's some work we can do to overcome it. I mean, is it like immersion therapy? You're like, okay, if you're scared to do this, you've got to go do it. I've done that with some guys. You know, sometimes it's just like basic systems. I'll just call it like comes from my days of taking. math class, which I wasn't very good at, but like simple exponential back off. I have a guy

Starting point is 00:34:25 right now, for example, like he's just getting off a nicotine. So like we went from the vape to the zins and now we're just on nicotine pills. And it's been like four pills, three pills, two pills. So sometimes something like that, a lot of the time it's accountability and brotherhood. So the guys who struggle with pornography, it's having somebody, if it's not me, to actually report that to and a lot of guys are like I'm just going to block it on my phone but it ends up being something you know it ends up that like there's ways around that and so yeah figuring out something that's proactive rather than typically just saying I'm going to decide to do this your mind is already conditioned to desire that advice when you're weak and so just solving it

Starting point is 00:35:13 through willpower is not going to get you there because you haven't built that willpower. So even there's a there's a Bible verse that like talks about fleeing lust. So when I work with a lot of guys who are struggling with that, I figure out ways like, all right, you feel temptation, literally get out the house, go for a walk until that subsides. Or you can't be in a certain situation like at the bar at night, then you need to remove yourself from it. So yeah, it's a process of removal adding like accountability, a couple of different things, but it really depends on the person and the vice. you know bill burr comically talks about you know men just suffer in silence until you keel over

Starting point is 00:35:52 and you die whatever he does it jokingly but it is kind of an epidemic i mean you talk about men sharing their feelings and this stuff which is kind of you know that goes against everything you know we were taught as men growing up you know we don't do that so i find that to be what you know in what you do a is it a problem and b how do you get guys over that hump of of like No, I'm just going to suffer in silence. So, okay, here's where I'm talking about my feelings. Yeah. Yeah, I do see it's a huge problem because a lot of the time guys come to me

Starting point is 00:36:23 and they haven't even accepted what they're suffering with within themselves. And I think the biggest thing that's holding us back from admitting it to ourself and then even more so to another person is just our ego and our pride. Like as men, we want to look like we're put together. We got things in control. like we're good, we're making money, we're in shape, we're confident. And so our desire for this outward appearance keeps us from addressing these internal problems. And so it's never going to be something where you throw a dude in a community of guys,

Starting point is 00:37:02 even if it was like an AA meeting, and you tell them to like dump out all those problems, it's not going to work well. And I think this is where I admire because I saw other men do it first, like men who lead with vulnerability and they're super real about their past in the stuff they've dealt with because if we sit in a room, it's just two of us and I share something that I've been through and it's relatable for you. It just creates a lot more of a space of safety for that guy to do it himself. And now he's put it on the table. He's actually expressed it. He starts to move into a position of like I'm not suppressing these emotions anymore. I'm more moving into like a detective

Starting point is 00:37:43 state where I'm looking at myself from a third person point of view. This is why the mental, the self-awareness, the meditation, the journaling is so important because you're observing yourself from a third-person position. And I'm starting to identify these things because I know if I identify them, there's now a path forward for me to overcome them. And I'm a stronger man when I get to that place. So yeah, really creating that space. That's why what I do is like not some or like sell some course or like give people some stupid PDF program it's like we're working super intensely together one on one because we're building a relationship first and foremost that's where trust is built the trust is also built in the vulnerability and now the platform is there for a guy

Starting point is 00:38:27 to be honest with himself and honest with me and then we can work forward from there do you find it's easier to start with the fitness stuff I think I just feel like it would be I feel like once they I feel like if you start with fitness, then eventually, you know, just like you would have your trainer at the gym, like, hey, what's going on with you? And eventually you develop a comfort level through something that allows them to maintain that, that level of masculinity in their own brain. Yeah, completely. And it's like that's the foundation.

Starting point is 00:38:53 I always think of it as a pyramid. It's like physical, mental, spirit and career relationships follow up there. But like if your body's not aligned, if you're smoking, drinking, feeling just crappy every single day, not eating good, not moving your body, then the amount of mental haze in fog that you're going to have is going to be ridiculous. Like you're not even going to be able to see yourself clearly. So let's start to clear a little bit of that out by just showing up physically getting your body feeling good. That's going to get your mind just in a better place. And then we can start to do some of that deeper work. So I know that, you know, masculinity has been in the crosshairs.

Starting point is 00:39:34 The pendulum is swinging back a little bit now, but it's been the crosshairs for quite some time. You know, it feels like any time a man acts like a man, he's called toxic. And where are you with that? Yeah, it's a brutal culture we live in. It's a good question. I haven't even thought through this, but it's unfortunate because like this traditional masculinity has become so demonized. it's almost like you can't represent traditional male values. Honestly, a lot of what I believe comes from a faith perspective,

Starting point is 00:40:12 but men were created a certain way for a reason. And like from a physical perspective, we are the dominant being once again for a reason because there is a need and a role for us to be providers, for us to be protectors. And I don't think there's anything wrong in standing strong in that and wanting to be a leader, wanting to be somebody who can be depended on because we think of these roles, especially in terms of relationships.

Starting point is 00:40:42 But it's like as a leader, that's not me saying I'm superior in whoever is below me is inferior. I always used, I grew up in Massachusetts, got blessed to be a Patriots fan, like Tom Brady, right? Tom Brady was not like, I'm the man and all these guys below me are. you know, inferior to me. He was just saying, I'm going to go first. I'm willing to take more responsibility and I'm willing to like bear the burden for this team or for this family as the man. And I'm doing this for the good of others. So I do think it's important for men to step

Starting point is 00:41:21 into those traditional roles and in those traditional characteristics of a man. And unfortunately our society like makes it a bad thing. where if you even talk about these things, it's a problem. And, yeah, I'm not even articulating it that well, but it's, I think you just need to be careful about, like, where, you know, who's defining the truth in your life? Because all of a sudden we see like these cultural movements and there's power behind it. It's on social media. It's on the news. And like, I'm forced to adapt to that.

Starting point is 00:42:02 But ultimately, like, especially with the message that you're bringing here on your show, like people who adapt and follow the system are never the ones who ultimately show up in their potential as the person they can be. So whether that's a leader and a provider and a protector and a strong masculine man or not, you conforming to what other people are telling you and how you should show up and what your character should be, that's going to ultimately dim your light in the person that you're capable of being. Well, I think that's pretty much what escaping the drift is about here. I mean, people like, what is the drift? It is a gradual and unconscious handing over of your life's direction to the whims of others. And I think what you just said sums it up so well, which is letting others define who you are. And I think so many people get caught up in that one thing, of especially in the age of social media with clicks and likes and shares and this debt. This establishes your self-worth in the eyes of so many people.

Starting point is 00:43:07 So let me ask you this. The new generation that's coming up, speaking to social media like that, you know, the new generation of men that are coming up, what's the biggest fear for them that you have? Yeah, I feel like I'm just afraid that they're going to be conformed into this way of expression. and this idea of manhood that's they ultimately become like sheep like men are a lot weaker than I've ever seen and I think it started I'm 29 years old I think it started I think that makes

Starting point is 00:43:46 me like Gen X or something I don't even know yeah you're Gen X yeah so I even I saw it start with my group of men no you're no I'm Gen X you're Gen X or something I don't even You're Gen Z. I'm not, I just know I'm not. Not millennial. Just, yeah, I miss the cutoff. So it's just like this, this, this babyed, like, soft follow the crowd type of man that I unfortunately see is becoming so prominent. And it's also like this instinct gratification expectation, I call it like microwave culture.

Starting point is 00:44:26 Because everything we have, it's like you can Uber eat. You can get it on social media. You can chat, GPT, and everything we have is instant. And so just hard work and discipline and, like, working for something over a long period of time. Like, people don't even want to do that anymore. I walk around here in Bali, and I see these guys who are literally from 8 a.m. to, like, 9, 10 p.m. They're busting their ass, like, building, they're building some type of building, like, with their bare hands. no machines, no construction, and I, first and foremost, like, I feel so fortunate for the

Starting point is 00:45:04 blessings and what I'm able to do. But also, I just admire, like, these guys are just like, we're going to go to work, we're going to get it done. And this is what needs to be done to bring food to the table. So, yeah, that's my biggest concern is, like, men are just going to let the culture define who they are instead of, like, looking within themselves. Like, if you want to be a badass man and something I get a lot of a lot of flack for is like me and my wife we believe in traditional roles it's like I'm the main provider like I told you I'm the provider I'm the protector she wants to work in the house she wants to be eventually at some point a mom who doesn't work and who who makes food for the family and that's a good thing in her eyes in a lot of women's

Starting point is 00:45:48 eyes as well and I see that as the biggest blessing and a woman being a mom is you know the most incredible and demanding job in the world. So that's something that we want to do. That's something we see value in, but we live in this culture where it's like, oh, how could you do that? You're, you know, you're, you're like an authoritarian. And so, yeah, it's really, really that like being swayed to the culture. And then just men not having confidence. And typically the confidence part is simply put, like men don't tell themselves, they don't keep their word to themselves. So every time I tell myself I'm going to do something and I do it, that builds confidence. Every time I tell myself, I'm going to do something and I don't do it, that does the reverse. And that fuels my

Starting point is 00:46:33 insecurity, that fuels my in belief, my lack of self belief. And every single time I break that word and I don't follow through on what I want to do, that lack of self-belief builds and builds and the reverse is true with building the confidence. So that all comes back to like work ethic and everything we talked about. And that's why I think most men struggle with confidence. And they don't do a damn thing because they don't believe they can because they haven't built a track record of following through on their word. And that's a summary of chapter one of my new book coming out in literally. Radical honesty is the first chapter of my book because without having that, dude,

Starting point is 00:47:10 you have nothing, right? And I tell my son all the time, and my son isn't just exceptional. He's top notch. But I tell him all the time, I'm like, look, don't tell me you're going to do something. Tell yourself you're going to do it. At the end of the day, I don't really care. If you work out today or you don't, it doesn't affect me, right? But it will affect you because you're lying to yourself.

Starting point is 00:47:31 And when you stop believing what comes out of your own mouth, not just to yourself, but to others, it's impossible to have self-confidence that way. It's just impossible. So amen, preaching to the choir. Yeah. And if, you know, you can't keep your word to yourself, there's no way you can ever keep it to somebody else. So the trust factor is gone.

Starting point is 00:47:50 It's not going to be there. All right. Well, Jack, if they want to find. you how do they find you yeah best place to find me is on instagram so you can find me jack p landry and just as a thank you for everybody listening what i want to do and actually i'll do two things is i want to make available for them what i call my morning momentum blueprint so super quick if you feel like you're starting the day you don't feel like you have direction clarity no motivation no discipline let's figure out a way for you get your morning dial your your body your mind your spirit

Starting point is 00:48:21 what we can do is we can build out that morning momentum blueprint for me if you just DM me on Instagram and another thing we can do typically something I only reserve for my one-on-one clients is we can do what I call a move different strategy session so essentially we're going to look at where you are right now in your life where you want to be in six 12 months identify all the obstacles that are holding you back and figure out a direct step-by-step action plan you can actually take to overcome that so yeah if you want to do that morning momentum blueprint with me or do the strategy session completely free message me on instagram it's jack p landry you can message me drift so i know where you're coming

Starting point is 00:49:01 from coming from john and yeah it's jack p langer on instagram i appreciate it i love that brother thanks for coming by man and when you're back in the states come by and see us in Vegas yeah awesome let's do it all right cool well guys look if you didn't get anything out of that today you weren't listening but the number one thing i'm going to say that i took away from this is don't let anybody define who you are in this life. You've got to live by your own set of rules. You've got to live by your own values because the only person's got to be proud of you, really at the day when you look is yourself when you look at yourself in the mirror. We'll see you next week. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch

Starting point is 00:49:44 out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, You can always go over to escaping the drift.com. You can join our mailing list. But do me a favor if you wouldn't mind. Throw up that five-star review. Give us a share. Do something, man. We're here for you.

Starting point is 00:49:59 Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime, we will see you at the next episode.

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Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - From Tech Hustle to Tranquil Coaching: Jack Landry's Journey to Purpose and Balance

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