Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - Marketing Art and Managing Success with Daniel Cohen

Starting point is 00:00:00 I love taking trash and turning it into treasure. No one likes chemistry, no one likes the nutritional fact label, but they see it and they're like, I recognize that. What is that? Why does it have a drug or something that's a cell phone? Why does it say social media? And now, Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm Jon Gafford, and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the drift, and it's time to start right now. Back again, back again. Man, I got to tell you, I was at dinner last night, and one of the guys at the table said, you know, people that tell you to chase your passion,

Starting point is 00:00:44 they're all rich people. That's bullshit. You just got to go work and do your job. And it was just very serendipitous because this is a cat in studio today that I met, I don't know, man, call it six months ago through some friends. And this guy has taken his passion, and there's no other way to describe it than passion because it's art, but he has taken his passion into an incredibly lucrative art business. His pieces are hung all over the place in some amazing places.

Starting point is 00:01:14 They are incredibly sought after. Celebrities are after him. I mean, he's like the cool hipster guy's artist. And he's a super cool guy. But ladies and gentlemen, we want to hear his story today about working your passion into money. Welcome to the studio. This is Daniel Cohen. Daniel, what's up, buddy? John, thanks for having me. How are you, man? I'm good. Just living the dream. Living the dream. Good to see you back in Vegas. I'm glad you made the trip in for this. I appreciate it. So tell early Daniel, let's talk about early Daniel, because I always like to start

Starting point is 00:01:43 here because you always wonder, is it nature? Is it nurture? What caused you, man? Great, great question. It started probably at a young age and just kept evolving. Was definitely inspired by a lot of great teachers that kind of grew me to appreciate art, understand it. And then Instagram came along and realized I didn't want to just sell fitness tea. I wanted to actually follow my passion. So I kind of left my job. Never really shared this part of the story before, but I was addicted to a drug. The drug was actually a salary. And it was stealing me away from my actual dreams of becoming something in a creative field. Because what did you go to school to do?

Starting point is 00:02:30 What was your initial thought process for Colin? The goal was to always try to do something in the creative field, whether that was be a graphic designer, photographer, do marketing, something that I could use my creative skills and assets and my left side of my brain or my right side of my brain to allow me to enjoy what I actually do and not just be miserable with what I'm doing. So I was fortunate enough to leave a job working sales and marketing um and move to los angeles uh for another job and then um out of spite i i left that job to become an artist and instagram

Starting point is 00:03:15 kind of blew up well hang on let's let's slow down yeah slow down so so did you go to college i do i have a degree a bachelor's of science degree in communications and communications arizona state university online never went to the actual school right yeah so so no sun devil flag hanging in the old house i go i go to the graduation and everyone as they're walking is throwing up the trident and i'm like why is everyone throwing up the shocker is this a joke is this you never knew about the shocker or the trident and i get there and i had this great moment like okay now i understand it's it's the trident the sun devil so i am a sun devil i do have a degree i paid uh probably fifteen thousand dollars or more for a piece of paper it was an insurance policy. I already knew I was going to be an artist, but yeah, it was just a backup plan

Starting point is 00:04:07 in case this is to make a living in this career. It's like you got to be in the 1% of the 1% to actually be doing it and doing it well. Oh, yeah. So I wanted to do that one for my parents as well as for myself, just to get that goal accomplished. You did have a little bit of a safety net there. So what'd you look at it as?

Starting point is 00:04:28 Yeah. A little bit of a safety net. I mean, I didn't want to be in my forties or fifties and say, I tried to be an artist and then whatever doesn't happen. And then I ended up like, why didn't I just spend the two years to get the degree? Well, see, I love that because this weekend, this, this last weekend, I was in Seattle at a, at one of my mastermind groups that I'm in. And the kids were there. We always take the kids when we travel to cities. And they'd never been to Seattle. So we took the Seattle Underground Tour. And our tour guide was very boisterous and very animated. And she announced towards the end of the tour guide that she had

Starting point is 00:04:59 got a theater degree in college. So this was just about all she was qualified to do. And I was thinking, not really a safety net, not a good safety net for an artist that wants to be something. So yes, lesson one, kids, if you're chasing your passion, set yourself up for success. Because if I'm correct, right?

Starting point is 00:05:16 If you get an art degree from college, no gallery has ever asked you, what college did you attend to receive your art degree? Has anybody ever asked you that, Daniel? No. Okay, no. Pretty sure, if you're in theater, pretty sure no casting director has ever said, wait a second, what theater school did you go to? What college did you graduate from? Never, right? No. Hey, this is Steve Sims, and I'm a proud partner of Escape the Drift Podcast with John Gafford, and I've got something for you for Sims Distillery. The community that is based on you, the entrepreneur, giving you the tools to be a better version of you. Visit

Starting point is 00:05:50 simsdistillery.com. Use the word escape to get a $694 discount off of the community that you need to be part of when you want to demand a better version of you. Thanks a lot. Escape the drift and see you in simpsons delivery.com. The creative fields. It's they really focus on what are you doing? What can you actually, what are you actually doing? Like how are you actually using your creative skills? And, and it doesn't matter. I mean, a piece of paper is, is just a piece of paper. It's there's's there's so much more uh to actually how are you using your creative arts to uh kind of share share those gifts with other people to get to

Starting point is 00:06:31 where it was okay so we get our piece of paper we got our communication it's great the whole time through college you still are you tinkering with your own stuff are you doing your own things i mean obviously because you know it's hard to jump on the computer and throw up the the shocker symbol yeah and uh yeah but you were still doing so you were already in the process of doing art while you were doing these so what percentage of time were you focused on study so bartending during the day school during the day stripping at nights no i'm just kidding stripping the paint off houses maybe yeah nobody's paying money to see me and you dance to do anything. So I was, yeah, just grinding. And the greatness of social media at the time is I started with pieces at $250. I was selling 10, 20 a month and making

Starting point is 00:07:15 a living as a bartender during the day. So that was able to give me like this little leap starting at great, easy entry points. Was it the same style you have today yeah very similar i started with the nutritional fact label and i stripped that and replaced all of the total fat sugar uh and and descriptions of what's in your food with uh describing what is the experience of of smoking cannabis or of what mushrooms are like and in the same format taking something boring and turning into something brilliant. And I would have loved to have seen the DMT label if you did. So for those of you that don't know, and a lot of you are probably meeting Daniel for the first time, describe your

Starting point is 00:07:56 art to the folks. Obviously this is an audio media. You can watch it on, on YouTube. And if you watch this on YouTube, I promise we'll put some clips in uh that shows what he does but i would almost describe it as like nerd art sure yeah has it ever been described that way because i love it it's it's like science art it's very cool i love describe it i love taking trash and turning into treasure yeah not no one likes chemistry no one likes the nutritional fact label but they see it and they're like, I recognize that. What is that? Why does it have a drug or something that's a cell phone? Why does it say social media? And they get drawn into it.

Starting point is 00:08:36 The average amount of time that someone spends in front of an art piece at an art gallery museum is less than three seconds. Where with my work, they really get captivated. They get sucked in. There's humor. There's irony. There's playfulness. It's relatable. That's different than most work. You go into a museum, you see a bunch of paint splattered on something.

Starting point is 00:08:46 You need to read a description on the wall to tell you what the artist was going through in that time period to understand what the context is of that art piece. With mine, you just instantly get it. So my artwork, to answer your question, is under a collection called This is Addictive. So I like to make make commentary play with commentary on our the nature of humans and their vices uh what we're addicted to it's very zeitgeist so i love capturing the spirit of the time um really analyzing our culture through the lens of art and the way that i've done that is the periodic table. Love the periodic table. Love it. Because when we wake up, what's the first thing that some people do?

Starting point is 00:09:29 They get their phone. They're addicted to their phone. What's the next thing they do? They might have sex, or they might get coffee, or both. These are the addictions. So I have an element for social media. Until they get kicked out of Starbucks. I mean, that's a problem.

Starting point is 00:09:41 Keep going. It happened to me today. That's how I ended up here uh but yeah so i uh by the by the you know the third hour of the day you're thinking about money i need to work i need to get you know there's so many driving forces the hustle the entrepreneur the element um a family like all these things are the elements of today so i like capturing the spirit of the time through the, these elements that I've created. And like I said, they're just relatable. The, for me, art should not need, it doesn't need to be so, uh, it doesn't need to be so about like the times of, of like, what's, what's challenging. Like, I don't want to make art about climate change.

Starting point is 00:10:25 Yeah. That's not for me. I don't want to make art about how my ancestors were oppressed. That's not for me. I want to make art that's relatable, that people are going to love, that they're going to remember, that's going to outlive me and stand the test of time

Starting point is 00:10:38 and always just be remembered. It's iconic. No one's done it. And those are the things that I always like chasing and creating. It's so, when you see it, now that, and if you watch this video on youtube you'll see some of the pieces and when you see them in very famous places that some of the stuff is hanging now or on very famous people's instagrams as they've gotten them and hung them on their walls you'll see that and it really is man it just it's it's just interesting to stop and look at like there's

Starting point is 00:11:03 no little card required to say what you were thinking what it just, it's, it's just interesting to stop and look at, like, there's no little card required to say what you were thinking and what it's about. It's very, it's very self-explanatory, but it's just so interesting the way that you do it. So let's get back to the journey of getting to that place. So you've always kind of been doing this stuff. So you started marketing it on Instagram is how you first started marketing this stuff. The way that it started was gifting pieces. That's been my secret sauce. Yeah. Putting a piece on someone's wall,

Starting point is 00:11:29 putting on a piece on someone's, you know, a wall on social media or on their physical wall and having those dominoes fall or having a breadcrumb show that always leads back to me. So gave a couple of pieces to some influencers early on 2014, 15, 16, when the algorithm was very, really, really good. Excellent reach. Ridiculous lifestyle.

Starting point is 00:11:53 Was a huge supporter of me early on. And set up a Shopify store. Had a website. Like I said, $250 pieces, $10, $20 a month. My rent was covered. Easy money. Those went from $250 to $500 to a thousand, started getting representation by galleries. The price point had to double at that point because galleries take 50%. So obviously there's different levels of art fairs.

Starting point is 00:12:20 You have your local art galleries that are just working with local artists or sometimes artists around the world. There might be doing group shows. There's also other galleries that take work on the road to different markets and different destinations with what are art fairs, some commercial art fairs that are trying to sell work that is from emerging mid-career artists, sometimes artists that are dead. But if you find a gallery like I did that takes your work on the road to the Hamptons, Aspen, New York, Miami, obviously. Fish where the fish are, man. Go where the money is. Exactly. So these galleries got smart. So if you get that, then you're constantly being kept up with business because the galleries are always finding new markets to bring business to. So I was successful at getting into a few galleries early on

Starting point is 00:13:08 that took my work on the road. So marketing, obviously, that way. Social media kept growing. Found unique creative things to do in the artistic world that kept marketing, kept pumping, kept investing, and just have not stopped. It's been all gas. Well, there's so much to unpack from what you just said. There's so much to unpack. So the first thing I'm going to say is if you're trying to start something, if you're trying to get

Starting point is 00:13:36 it going, right, getting it in the hands of those that can make it cool and get it exposed is clutch. So however you get it in their hands i think is important so you know very similar to like you know trav lubinsky i don't know if you know trav or not no trav is the founder of flex watches he's been on the show okay and uh trav stumbled across the filming of the real world san diego when they were filming in a bar and he just inserted himself struck up a conversation talk about what the product was, and then ended up getting Flex watches just injected into the show. That's where the kids worked.

Starting point is 00:14:10 I mean, it was wild, but he did. He goes, yeah, this was just, I just strong-armed my way into this production in real time. Like in real time, I did it. But getting yourself in front of people, I think is clutch. The second part I think I would say that is important is a lot of people can't swallow the idea of giving up 50% of their, their work. They just can't like, why am I going to give you 50% of profits? Well, dude, here's the deal. You have to look at it as asymmetrical risk. You have to say, okay, if I, if I give up 50% of my bottom line, but they can grow my top line by 5,000% and your net is 12 to six times what it

Starting point is 00:14:49 was, then you got to get out of your own way. And I've done deals before with people where I'm like, look, we can get you from A to Z, but it ain't free and it's going to be here. And I just, they couldn't get out of their own, their own way with their ego to give up that much of a piece. Ego always gets in the way. You got to find people that want to build with you. And 50% is a lot of money, but a hundred percent of nothing is nothing. So you got to find people that want to grow with you long-term, the gallery within the galleries and a lot of industries,

Starting point is 00:15:15 you got to pick your poison of who you're working with. Are they going to, are the people who are going to work with pay on time? Are they going to be honest? They can be loyal. Is there a long-term growth? All of these are things that can be challenges within any industry and within the art world. It's historically has a lot of corrupt characters that, that are always going to be around. So you got to do your

Starting point is 00:15:33 diligence, really find people that are trustworthy that you want to work with. Well, tell me about a time you've been banged out. How much time do you got buddy? Pick the pick the worst one pick the best one no no luckily leave the names aside i don't need the names of people but tell me about the scenario because it does happen and how'd you deal with it and how'd you move forward from it uh well there's times where i've elected to do work on my own and uh there's a guy um comes from a very wealthy family. I won't say his first name, but his last name is DuPont. Okay. Just a little, a little, a little wealthy. I got it.

Starting point is 00:16:13 Ironically, he wanted a piece of art, which was an oversized receipt that was from a bank that had a statement balance of a few million dollars. It's a flex. It's the concept is people have so much money. Sometimes they get these ATM receipts that have million dollar balances. They just crumple them up and throw it away. So it's a giant oversized crumbled up receipt. So he commissions one. I get the wire after seeing the receipt, few days later, hits the account. Make him the piece, get it framed, let him know it's ready to be sent.

Starting point is 00:16:47 He sends me a screenshot of a wire receipt. It's a Friday. I go, this guy is wealthy. Seem like I can trust him. Last time got this screenshot. The wire is being sent. I release it to FedEx. All of a sudden, no wire, no wire.

Starting point is 00:17:04 Send him, hey, what's going on what's going on weeks go by he's playing the game i red flags are popping off so um long story short i had to hire a collections attorney amazing guy david kahana legend legendary um uh lawyer who does collections he was able to ruffle some feathers, put some heat to this guy and got me paid. So he was the savior. But the chat, the story of this is sometimes the benefit of the galleries is they have these protocols of, of how to actually do business. So I have been burned by collectors directly. I have been burned by gallerists. But these lessons along the way have taught me a lot. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:46 It's fun. It's, you know, it's so funny because it's been my experience too, that sometimes occasionally ultra wealthy people will do shit like that just because they think they can. Just because this guy's entitled. Just because they think they can't like, ah, it's too much, but I'm just not going to pay the guy. What's he going to do? What's he going to do? What's he going to do?

Starting point is 00:18:03 And I think that it's so funny because, and I think as a person getting into business with people that are ultra wealthy, if you've never done that, you just assume because they're ultra wealthy, they would never do some shit like that. What about their reputation? It's, you know, it's going to be terrible if this happens. No, no, no, dude. You gotta, you gotta cover the, cross the T's and dot the I's as they say. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:24 So shout out to my DuPont friend. So the great thing that I did for the collections attorney, David, is made him one of the same receipts and wrote on it, fuck you, pay me. And he's got that hanging in his office and he loves it. He's got a great story out of it. And now he tells the story. How many pieces do you commission that you find,

Starting point is 00:18:44 commission pieces that are designed to tell a story in a way that way a lot of stuff or they depend on is are they coming to you with the creative idea they're depending on you i've had some interesting ones i had a collector ask me to make him a panda express element he was addicted to orange chicken so that's a little it's pretty solid at the old Panda Express. Yeah. Yeah. I would never expect that that is someone's guilty. I mean, I can understand this comfort food. It's guilty pleasure. That's what some people just love. It might be McDonald's, but for him it was, it was that, but I do get some interesting requests. That one was a strange one. Okay. Cause you are dealing with addiction. anybody asked for things something that you were just not comfortable producing or not i mean i have put some real substances in pieces by request yeah all right typically it was let me find some replica stuff

Starting point is 00:19:35 but there has been requests for for authentic stuff to to create the um it just makes it so much more because my mind just goes to like the worst things you can be addicted to, right? Like weird German pornography or something. And all of a sudden you're like, you know, I'm just not comfortable with this. I'm just not comfortable. Yeah. But nothing so far has gone on.

Starting point is 00:19:56 No pedo stuff. Okay, no, of course. Look, we weren't going that far, right? I'm going to assume that you weren't okay with that. Of course, I got morals. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and assume there's some sort of a moral compass going of course i'm not just uh an art whore so when it comes to your pricing with these folks do you take who they are and what they can pay into i don't know if i'm gonna answer this no no no no the market

Starting point is 00:20:19 price is a market it's just market price so your pieces now sell for how much um they range i mean i as an artist i like to create some diversity and allow collectors to buy in at like a affordable price point um you know not everyone has five thousand dollars to spend on a piece of art but they might have a couple hundred dollars so i have sometimes limited releases where it might be something that's a hundred bucks to five hundred bucks five hundred to a thousand but right now the elements started at two thousand000 in 2017. That's your periodic table.

Starting point is 00:20:47 The periodic table. Now they're selling for 5,000. So they have the early investors that got in have seen a good significant increase. They continue to sell at that price point. I have large periodic tables that are eight feet wide by four feet high. Those are selling for a great price. I'm very grateful. The last one just sold for close to six figures. That's amazing. I'm grateful that people are continuing to invest. They see the vision. It's unique work. And that's what is one of the most rare prices things that you can buy today is uniqueness. It's so funny, man, that in your business, especially it's,

Starting point is 00:21:25 it is 100% opinion driven, right? There there's no, I mean, I guess everything is the reason gold is valuable is because they say it is right. There isn't diamonds are valuable because De Beers says they are. I mean, but at the same time, art is just so subjective that, I mean, do you wake up every day? You got to wake up on two sides of the bed. I'm guessing you got to wake up. Thanking God that the world thinks that this is the cool thing. And also part of you is part of you sort of terrified that somebody might wake up one day and be like, this is not cool anymore. No, I can't stop. You can't stop. You just don't think that. No, I got, there's so many ideas up here. It's really, it's really just a matter of like,

Starting point is 00:22:03 who wants to keep buying in to keep funding this dream that's going is is i i could keep going i'm going to fill some museums i got great great concepts it's um some of them just come with a price tag my artwork is not paint on canvas it can get expensive to make the work that i create because you use real elements use like the periodic table of luxury was my highest, my most expensive piece. What did that cost? It, that piece cost me $9,500 to make. Yeah. So, and that that's, you know, that's sometimes adds up when you make two of them, three of them. So here's a question. So all of your art is based on addiction. Is that something you struggle with

Starting point is 00:22:43 in your life or what makes you fascinated with addiction? I think it's relatable. Everyone today is an addict of something, whether it's a fringe addiction, like they're addicted to tennis or they're addicted to their dog or their family, like we're just straight up addicted to something literally. And, and the people who have gone through those struggles, there's relatableness. Everyone's first addiction as a child is sugar. I remember growing up, Halloween was the holiest holiday because I was not raised in a household where

Starting point is 00:23:13 there was a lot of sugar or candy or soda. So I always loved the idea of being able to get candy out of sweet tooth. So maybe it started then, but today, no, I didn't have like a history of addiction. I mean, is the addiction of money or the addiction of success fueling me? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I think so every day. That's what I'm chasing. You know, it's one of my favorite stats is life doesn't change that much after I think the number's like $85,000 a year. Life doesn't exponentially change that much after I think the number's like $85,000 a year. Life doesn't exponentially change that

Starting point is 00:23:46 much. I mean, I think it changes from 85,000. I think after $500,000 a year, it changes a lot. But after that, it doesn't really change because you kind of get to a point when you start making really great money that like, like there's some things you've always wanted to go buy. And then you go buy them and you realize very quickly, shit, it was the idea of buying this that made it desirable, not the thing itself. And now I've bought this thing and now I'm over it. I love David Spade tells that story about buying a Ferrari and he just felt like an asshole like the first day. Never drove it again. And I've had similar experiences with that. So, but I tell people

Starting point is 00:24:18 all the time, you know, the thing now is when you get to a certain point of success, you're just chasing a scoreboard against yourself. It's really what it is. It's just how much more, how much the next level, it doesn't really meet. It doesn't, you don't need anything, but you just want to, you just want to push, continue to push the goalposts farther out. It is a re there's relativity to this situation. It just is a nonstop thing that you're always trying to chase the next goal the next mountaintop so i i get it um you know when i just recently moved to miami and um i moved there obviously for three things um the hurricanes the humidity and the bbls um but um i moved there actually for the american dream i i'm grateful that i was able to buy a condo there um and so now now that i'm there i what's what's next

Starting point is 00:25:07 where are you down are you downtown you're the beach where are you i'm on the miami side in an area called edgewater great view but it's like being on vacation every day so i've had this balance work-life balance come from los angeles going to miami um having to uh really refocus and hustle on and um find some new goals to go after. So it's, it's a, it's a great environment to be in. I like Miami. It's, it's one of the best places to live right now in the United States, in my opinion. So as somebody that continually chases the more and more and more, I got more ideas in my head. Do you ever allow yourself to feel like you've made it? Did you have a moment where you were like, fuck, right? I made it.

Starting point is 00:25:42 I think that's what most people struggle with. Yeah. Is that exact paradigm is you get swept up and not celebrating the little wins along the way. You got to celebrate the dubs. Yeah. If you don't, then you're never going to be satisfied. You're never going to have fulfillment.

Starting point is 00:25:59 And for me, I have had to be more conscious of that because for my first year, it was six figure sales. It was like great, hungrier. Yeah. Or next goal, hungrier. And now it's like, now my next goal is six figures, one art piece. Yeah. It's, that's the addiction. It's, it's not the best addiction to have.

Starting point is 00:26:23 The best thing to have is fulfillment. Be grateful, have gratitude. Those, those things that keep me grounded, keep me sane. So the balance is everything. A lot of artists and people in general can get swept up in the lifestyle, especially in places like Miami, like Vegas, like Los Angeles. So it's, well, I was going to say, like, if you look at how many people get addicted to likes, shares, comments on Instagram posts, like their whole life begins to rotate around what people think of what they're putting out there. You are that on a rocket ship because it's literally what you do.

Starting point is 00:26:59 I mean, like what people think of what I create is what I do. I mean, that has got to be, have you ever, have you produced something that maybe you put up for sale and it didn't sell as quick as you thought it should. And it started fucking with your head a little bit. Absolutely. How do you deal with that? I, I realized it's not the right timing. I got to be patient. I got to be more, uh, effective with the execution of how I'm releasing something. Um, it's the, it's all in the storytelling. Uh, there's, it's maybe it's just, yeah, the, not the right timing, but I have, um, I have been, um, I'm trying to continue to grow in exactly that way. Um, and yeah, sometimes things you gotta, you gotta throw shit on the wall and see

Starting point is 00:27:44 what sticks. Sometimes not everything does. Um, but I'm grateful that a lot of the stuff that I way. And yeah, sometimes things you gotta, you gotta throw shit on the wall and see what six, sometimes not everything does. But I'm grateful that a lot of the stuff that I have has stuck. One of my bestselling releases was called Benjamin's bread. It was the simplest idea. Slang for money is bread. I put a hundred grand in a bread bag. I designed it. I boxed it up, shipped it out to a hundred people, gave them away. People posted them. It led to some of the most amazing relationships today. Just paper printed plastic concept. That's it. And people loved it because everyone loves this idea of you got to wake up and get that bread. People are chasing the bag. They put it on top of the refrigerator. where their other bread is, or maybe they have it somewhere significant or special,

Starting point is 00:28:27 like their office, just as that reminder, like, go get it, go get the bag, chase the bag. But just the simplest idea of taking an old saying and turning it into something that's relatable that you've never seen before. Bread, money, together, done. You know, I tell people all the time i said one of the biggest mistakes you can make as an entrepreneur is because we're not creating art but we are creating concepts products sites funnels all of these things that you have to create to be a good entrepreneur in business and i tell people all the time don't fall too in love with your own ideas and the reason you can't is because you can't think objectively about them.

Starting point is 00:29:06 You have to fall in love with what you do. So that's got to be very difficult to reconcile sometimes. It's a love-hate relationship, just like social media. Social media is a love-hate relationship, especially lately. But you do have to kind of fall in love with what you do. And once you lose that, you start to question, what am I doing? Um, and sometimes when things flop, you're, it hurts even more because you have that strong love for something and other people don't share that same love.

Starting point is 00:29:38 So it's, uh, you just got to kind of double down, triple down sometimes on, on like your vision focus, sometimes pull back. There's projects that I'm pulling back now on that I released that I thought people were going to get really excited about, see the vision, but it's too early. It's AI generated stuff that I know is going to be a hit. It's just, I need to be more effective and find a better way to communicate that love and explain it to people so they fall in love.

Starting point is 00:30:04 Right now with social media, the challenge is everything is storytelling. That's what we're doing. You're constantly telling your story. You're having people like me come in and tell their story. It's the same thing with art. Art is essentially a story for someone, whether it's paint on a canvas or something like a periodic table of luxury or Las Vegas or whatever. There's a story that's behind every artist, every art piece, every piece of real estate. So it's relative. As long as you're chasing what you love, that's the best thing. And I'm grateful that's what I get to do. You know, it's so funny that you say that and loving yourself that way, because there's got to be haters that look at your stuff online a lot and they just hate.

Starting point is 00:30:52 So, you know, my thing is I'll never forget this. So millions of years ago when I was on, on the apprentice, there was a website called television without pity. And it was a blog site where people could interact. This is before Facebook, right? Yeah. Yeah. Kids kids there was a world before facebook get over blogs get over the single block and it was just a chat board right and on this television without petty chat board they would discuss like reality shows and there was a whole blog with thousands of people discussing discussing nothing but me me just and dude it was such a mind fuck like it was so like when things were going good oh it was great man my head was the size of this room but when things

Starting point is 00:31:37 went bad it sent me spiraling yeah and i think that when you do something as personal as art like for example right before i walked in this room, right before I sat down with you, you know, I just crafted a new marketing message and sent it out. And we, you know, I always A-B test everything. We send a marketing message out. I sent it out to 5,000 homes, small, small, small send out on it. And one of the things that it said within the mailer was it talked about just putting our last listing in escrow.

Starting point is 00:32:04 And we had taken the listing over from a less experienced agent that could not sell it. And we got it sold in 30 days. I walked in right before you, and there was a piece of hate mail on my desk from somebody that took the time to mail it back to me. A love letter. They sent me a love letter. And they said that they were basically saying that this was so egotistical and I needed to find some humility and they would never hire me. And my assistants were like, did you see that? I go, yeah, because they knew I would think it was funny. Because for me now, going through that experience before where it was picking at me, and you're so personal with your art, it's got to be similar to that experience. But now I've kind of gotten to the point where I want to be polarizing. Like I don't want you to ever run into anybody

Starting point is 00:32:50 that is 50, 50 on John Gafford. I want people to be like, that dude's a dick or I love that guy. And I look at this, like anything I can do to make myself polarizing where we're either, you and I are best friends or you're going to walk out. You're like, what a douche. Like, I don't want it anywhere in the middle. Do you find yourself caring similar about your, your crowd that follows art? Like either like I'm your guy or I'm not go fuck yourself. Forget who said this, the quote, but he said, uh, he's a former president. Like if you don't have enemies, you're doing something wrong. Yeah. Which is so true. Um, and there is the polarizing nature. There's the comments, there's the haters, there's the internet trolls, or there's just the people in real life that just want to talk crap and, and, you know,

Starting point is 00:33:32 try to throw shade on you. Um, but yeah, if you're, if you don't have that, then you're, you're not doing something right. Um, for me, I like being provocative. I like pushing the envelope. Of course, that's going to come with uh some some of those things so yeah it's uh you've got to find a way to kind of like have a little thick skin and and uh it's not easy especially artists artists can be sensitive yeah and people in general today are more sensitive than they've ever been so uh for for yeah for artists uh and people in a lot of industries that's that's relative well i think i think that's one of the reasons that makes you so appealing to people i think you do come off with swag to that point you don't come

Starting point is 00:34:20 off like the super sensitive emotional starving artist you come off like this is cool shit i make cool things for cool people and that's who i am and yeah i'm here to have fun and make art and it's and if live a good life like is that so much to ask for like it's it shouldn't be that hard like the the work that i create i'm putting my energy and love into it and that's what people get and that's what i think a lot of people don't focus on is the intention of why they're doing what they do. And when you actually have a good heart, a good intention of what you do, whether that's real estate, whether that's trying to be an entrepreneur with a specific type of product that you're trying to share with other people, people can get lost along the way and uh for me i'm i'm just grateful that i got this opportunity people keep showing up people collecting the emails keep coming in people keep calling um i mean opportunities are good i have worked in the delta lounge at lax new york stock exchange for the next year resort world uh has the new york the periodic table of las vegas where is that in

Starting point is 00:35:26 resorts well just because our local folks could go see it where is it i've seen it where is it exactly right now it's currently at the entrance uh where the valet pickup and drop off is so it's not the valet uh entrance for the hotel it's the uh uber and lyft pickup entrance so it's uh over by where the sports betting area yeah that Yeah, that was a big deal. That was cool. You got that. And the stock exchange. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:49 The New York stock exchange. St. Benjamin's Bread. Yeah. One gift, $25 investment to a guy named Peter Tuckman. He's the Einstein of Wall Street. Led to another gift to him. Then brings me in one year for a periodic periodic table of new york uh sixth floor some of the biggest ceos executives heads of state cultural ambassadors walk past my art every single

Starting point is 00:36:13 day so i'm going to say but all that art is doing is sitting there appreciating because the longer it's there the more value it becomes yes not all art appreciates some artists some collectors do like a depreciating asset and then they get to claim a little bit of a deduction, but I'm saying, but I'm saying the fact that that's hanging in the stock exchange when, when your run there comes up, when your commission gets over and it comes down,

Starting point is 00:36:36 I believe, I just want to believe that makes that particular piece worth more for sure. Yeah. Cause it was whoever buys that piece gets, gets a great piece. And there's, I'm a dyslexic artist, notorious for making spelling errors. So if you like baseball cards, some of the most rarest ones were the ones that had the mistakes and errors on them. So there's some collectors on there that have a nice little spelling error that probably will be a rare piece down the line. And I'm fine with that. I accept that I've made mistakes. I ironically, I have a bachelor's of science in communications and I'm dyslexic. And I chose artwork with all words.

Starting point is 00:37:13 Maybe that's why, maybe you thought you were signing up for art and it just happened to be communications. And because you were doing it online, you didn't figure it out until it was too late. I don't know. Either I'm autistic or artistic or a little bit of both. Or a little bit of both. So you mentioned earlier that, you know, you just moved to Miami and you're trying to find work-life balance there is the new city because literally it is like every night is go, go, go. And every day is paradise, right? What do you do outside of the art to find work-life balance or is work-life

Starting point is 00:37:42 balance even a thing that's important to you? Yeah. Socializing is absolutely very important for me. Obviously for networking, I love to be rich in relationships. I'm a farmer is what I call it. I'm a farmer of friendships. I'm always planting seeds, meeting new people. That's what you have to do in any field, especially in artists. You can't just be stuck in your studio. It can be very lonely. Um, but yeah, in Miami, um, I mean, going out dinners, I'm Jewish, so I like to do Shabbat dinners every Friday. Um, but it's, there, there is a slippery slope in Miami where a lot of people do end up going out to dinner and then they go to the club and then they go to the after hours and then it's five 30 at 11. You like what just happened yes exactly why is the sun coming up oh my god geez yeah so um luckily i'm not i don't like that i don't chase the clubs i don't like that i will go out i do like to go to those things but on

Starting point is 00:38:36 occasion it's it's not for me all the time every week that's it my liver no i'm like 36 going on 65 yeah dude i i like i like a nice dinner way more than i like a club i ever ever probably did you know it's it's so interesting because when you talk about that work-life balance like i've had i've had guys on here like ryan sirhan that like i was like talking about your work-life balance he's like there is none you know it's work it's all i do i told my wife we got married i'm going to work. You can go vacation in France with the kids and I'm going to work and I'm going to do that. And for me, like I do work a lot. I do focus. I'm always thinking about work. I'm even when I'm kind of home and I've tried to get much better

Starting point is 00:39:19 with that because the whole concept of like 18 summers with your kids really hit me hard. Like the time you spend with your kids 90 of it is over by the time they're 18 years old and i'm like dude i got two summers left with with my dude yep and uh and my daughter got four left so i'm like i'm maximizing all of that so you know i think i made that switch smart yeah so i mean is this i mean obviously aspiring kids is this something you're aspiring to or? Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:46 Girl first, travel, maybe dog, kids, absolutely. Houseplant, make sure you don't kill it. Exactly. I hope the olive tree at my house is fine right now. I'm neglecting it while I've been traveling. But absolutely, kids are definitely in the cards. I mean, some people today, they don't want kids. I do.

Starting point is 00:40:03 It's, but yeah, that work-life balance is so important. I was watching a podcast. It was a short and the guy was talking and said, how often do you see your parents? I said, one or two times a year. I said, okay, hypothetically, say they got five to 10 more times. That blew my mind. Jesse Itzler said that.

Starting point is 00:40:26 Yeah. Shout out, Jesse. Same thing, dude. Same thing. So with your kids, you're like, I got a couple more times where there's still kids before the emptiness really starts to occur. You want to really spend value with them. You can replace work.

Starting point is 00:40:40 Yeah. You can't replace family. See, I love that you're figuring this out at 36. Because, dude, because here's the thing. Something weird starts happening. I don't know when you hit like 48, I'm going to throw it out there. And this is what happens. You'll have some stupid Facebook group or whatever social media is at the time when this runs around, you're gonna have some sort of a group that you're tagged to all of the people you went to high school with. You don't want to talk

Starting point is 00:41:01 to them. You never talked to them, but for some reason you're in this group it just is what it is right and then they start dying and you start going whoa and then you know at first what is what happens probably starts happening honestly about 42 right they start dying and you just a lot of fentanyl you open it up and you look at it you're like oh dude like hadn't seen a gym in 10 years yeah Not supersizing me hardcore for 50. You're like, yeah, I can see that happening. But then you kind of cross this age where you're like, dude, if I die, there is no candlelight vigil. People are just going to be like, yeah, it's a good run, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And when that starts happening, right? As my good friend Kent Clothier says, he goes, here's a great exercise for you. He goes,

Starting point is 00:41:42 take your age. If you're a man, subtract it from 78. Then multiply it by 365. That is how many days you statistically have left on this earth. Then take that and divide it by 66% because you're asleep one third of the time. That is really how many days you have left walking the earth. And it kind of puts perspective in things in those things. And it's about chasing what's important. So when you can do what you've done and turn your passion into money, now that's great. And I think sometimes it's very obvious that what you're doing, art, passion, money, very obvious. But I think people also can find

Starting point is 00:42:21 passion in whatever they do. I think if you look at like what I do, somebody says, what do you do? It's not, we sell homes. It's not what I do. I teach people a skillset on how to make an incredible amount of money if they're good at it. And I have done that a thousand times in my life. So if you take all of those people, a thousand people out there, probably they're running around making six figures or more. I think that's a pretty big impact I've made on a lot of people. So I think it's just about perspective of finding if you're not working your direct passion, like if you're my passion is to be a major league baseball player, but you can't

Starting point is 00:42:58 throw the ball five feet. I'm sorry. You're not going to make it. Yeah. But you need to find something passionate about what you do. Yeah, I totally agree. And right now, 20, 30, 50 years from now, people are going to watch this and someone's going to get inspired. The content that you've created will outlive you and that will make an impact on other people when you're dead. And that's what I love. Same with my art.

Starting point is 00:43:23 My art's going to outlive me. I got to make sure my quality is there so that people, the caretakers of my work, it's going to And going back to passion, I think that that's what people need to find a passion that they actually care about. And there is limited time. Time is money. And you have to value your time sometimes like a currency. And if you make more money, that can sometimes give you more time with your family, with your friends. So it's four. Yeah. So it's relative um that's why i made this watch it's it's got all the currencies on the face because time is money and it's a reminder for me when i look down every

Starting point is 00:44:16 day i don't i don't really i mean obviously i have a clock on my phone but this is a more of a symbolism reminder of exactly what you're saying. You only have a limited amount of time. Look at it like money. Now, dude, I couldn't agree more. And I can't think of a better dude. If there's no lesson, we're going to tell it's better than that one. I can't think of anything better way to wrap this up on. Dude, if they want to find you, how do they find you? How do they find this is addictive? How do they find you? How do they find you? Instagram find this is addictive how do they find you how do they find you instagram this is addictive daniel alan cohen.com personal instagrams daniel alan cohen um you can see my work at the delta lounge at lax that's a public space if

Starting point is 00:44:58 you're traveling through that lounge um yeah uh social media is the best place. Uh, and yeah, it's, uh, grateful to be on here and great to talk with you. Pleasure. No, dude, ever since the first night I met you at that event, started talking about this. I'm like, bro, I gotta get you on. This is just so fascinating to me and, and I love it. So thanks for coming in and let that be a lesson to you, dude. Everybody that's listening to this, let that be a lesson. You know, here's the deal.

Starting point is 00:45:22 Like the podcast says, you got to stop drifting along with the currents of life, man. You've got to take control of your own life because nobody is coming to save you. Chase your dream, chase your passion, but you got to chase something. See you next week. What's up, everybody? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Escaping the Drift. Hope you got a bunch out of it, or at least as much as I did out of it. Anyway, if you want to learn more about the show, you can always go over to escaping the drift.com. You can join our mailing list, but do me a favor. If you wouldn't mind, throw up that five-star review, give us a share, do something, man. We're here for you. Hopefully you'll be here for us. But anyway, in the meantime,

Starting point is 00:46:01 we will see you at the next episode.

Escaping the Drift with John Gafford - Marketing Art and Managing Success with Daniel Cohen

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.