Every Single Album - 13 Questions About Taylor Swift’s ‘Midnights’ | Every Single Album: Taylor Swift

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard are here to answer your questions about ‘Midnights;’ 13 of them to be exact. They talk about why Taylor Swift has seemingly paused her re-records in favor of putting this album out (1:00), what type of sound they hope ‘Midnights’ will have (30:57), what a potential Swift tour could look like (46:14), and what the heck is going on in ‘Midnights Mayhem With Me' (1:16:14).   Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Yossi Salick, and I'm the host of Bansplain, a show where we explain cult bands and iconic artists by going deep into their histories and discographies. We're back with a brand new season at our brand new home, The Ringer Podcast Network, tackling a whole new batch of artists, from grunge gods to power pop pioneers to new metal legends and many, many more. Listen to new episodes every Thursday, only on Spotify. And welcome to every single album, Taylor Swift, or welcome back to every single album. Taylor Swift. I'm Nora Pryantiati, and as always, I'm here with Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, how does it feel to be back? You've let me out of my box because Taylor's got an album coming, Nora. Here I am. You stay in the closet underneath the stairs until Taylor decides to bless us with content. It's the Taylor Swift troll. I'm out from under the bridge. I want that in your,

I want that in all of your, like, social media profile bios. We are the Taylor Swift troll out from underneath the bridge because Midnights Taylor's 10th album is coming out on October 21st. And we couldn't really wait to talk about it. And I noticed on the interwebs that you guys couldn't really wait to talk about it either. So what we're going to do is we've collected so many wonderful questions from people on Twitter and maybe a couple from other sources. And we're just going to go through them and talk about expectations from the album, everything that's going on in the Taylorverse. That's going to be this pod.

I feel compelled to say that we are recording this on the afternoon of Tuesday, October 4th. More shit is going to happen. It's going to happen. Like, I don't know if you've been doing this too. I think most Taylor's Live fans have been doing this. I live in this constant state of like paranoia. Like what's she up to?

What's she doing? Is she in my closet? It's permanent jump scare fear. She is actually the troll that lives beneath the stairs. Oh shit. monster under the bed. Ping pong balls and a weird phone that records out of both sides. Occupies so much space rent-free.

It's like smile too. But okay, anything that happens between October 4th and when this podcast comes out. Not our fault. It's not our fault. We'll deal with it as best we can. I hope it's something exciting. And then going forward, we're going to have another very exciting episode before the album comes out. That's going to be a surprise.

So no more about that, but I think you guys will enjoy it. And then obviously, we're going to cover midnights and everything else once it's out, which I'm super excited about. Oh, boy. Without further ado, should we take things off our first question? Here's 20 more hours of Taylor Swift, chatter. You love it. You love it.

You know I do. Guys, I saw Nathan recently, and we hung out and we had a great time, except he had less of a good time than I did. Why? Because within your sight line, the entire time. Was an elderly couple just like making out? Like heavy duty tongue action. Nora and I are sitting at a bar.

Like we're in a very public. Just like, they're at the bar. They're not in a booth or anything. Just a very public space. I'm to Nora's left. The couple is to Nora's right. And we're turned facing each other. And we're the best of friends.

So we're just getting on. But slowly in my peripheral vision, I start to see major geriatric comes. action. And Nora's like, are you not, are you not present? Are you not in this? Like, do you not agree with me about this crazy conspiracy theory that I'm throwing away about Taylor Swift? I'm like, Nora, I'm enthralled, but I'm more just horrified at what's happening behind you. And Nora would not look. She would not turn over her shoulder. No, I looked. Nathan doesn't believe that I, that I turned enough to look. Like, here's the thing.

You didn't vomit. It's a little gross. But they were having a nice time. And I didn't want to screw it up. so I didn't like do the full-on owl swivel. They were having a nice time. They were having a nice time. And it's, you know, we support love. We're very happy for them. We do support geriatric love, yes. But.

Octogenarian makeouts are less awesome. This is exciting for me because I get to ask you these questions and we get to have this discussion free of distractions. Yeah. So I'm pumped. I'm going to write an album about all the nights sleep I lost. thinking about that bar. Anyway, it was lovely to be with you

and it's lovely to be with you now. Let's tackle them. All right. First one is from Gabrielle, which I think is the biggest question that I've been thinking about since Midnights was announced on the VMA's stage

because where else would she do it? I thought it might be a fun moment to tell you that my brand new album comes out October 21st. Gabrielle asks, why do you guys think she chose to release a new album before the re-recordings? What's going on with the timeline here? This is the thing. This woman does not have a choice. She is intrinsically compelled. She is like wired unlike most human beings to create this stuff. It is readily apparent that this was not the plan six months ago. Because you and I were calling each other like, did you see the merch store?

Every single price is purple, and it says $19.89, $0.89. All of the signs were there that we were working our way into a campaign for the release of 1989. We have seen in movies the release of now, I think, at least three re-recorded. There's three songs. Yeah, so two of them, Wildest Dreams Taylor's Version and this Love Taylor's Version, we got Wildest Dreams in the Horse movie. And then this love came out and was featured in the summer I Turn Pretty on Amazon Prime. Those are available for streaming.

Yes. Bad Blood was only in the League of Super Pets movie and in weird TikToks with The Rock and Kevin Hart. DJ, what you listening to? Bad Blood, Taylor's version? What? Bad Blood. Taylor's version. Go to the doctor.

But at least snippets of three songs are out there and presumably the whole songs have been recorded. Yes, and it suggests that 1989 is in the bag, was in the bag, has always been in the bag probably for most of 2022,

but this woman does not sleep, which is going to be the central theme of this album, and she's born to create and she clearly created something. And so when you and I first had the conversation about this, What did we say?

Like, what did I tell you? What were our feelings on the nervousness scale about this album? I think we both were somewhere between an eight and a ten. So I think that's true. That's just bridge troll guy? No, I don't. So I think that's true. But you know how if you buy, if you're at the supermarket and you buy something in bulk,

they tear the weight of the packaging, like if you get a little, you know, whatever container that it goes in. And then when they put it on the scale, they have it adjusted so that it subtracts the three ounces that your little plastic container. Okay. You have to tear like a five on the nervousness scale for me just because it's Taylor Swift doing something. You're like a Bills fan. Yeah. You just, you're just like you're expecting, except for the fact that she has never let me down, right?

It's like if the Bills have won all those Super Bowl. It's just we're afraid the streak is going to be broken. We're just always hell of nervous that it's not. It's going to sort of fracture the glass of the stained glass in the chapel at which many of us worship. I understand that. But the reason that I'm way less nervous upon reflection about this album is that it's so clear she decided this had to go out. As we've talked about the re-records, right? The purpose of these things is ostensibly to report.

place the ones that exist to reclaim the income stream that she believes is rightfully hers, that she was not given, according to her, a fair chance to reacquire. She signed the contract Varen Square, but she believed that as the artist, she had the right to go acquire those rights back. She wasn't given the chance. And so she said, fuck you, I'm going to knife you in the kidneys. And I'm going to take back what's mine by re-recording this. And the data says it has worked, right?

Old red, not getting played. New red being streamed massively. And so the owners of that copyright are not particularly happy at this point. And that was exactly the point. So the fact that she stopped and interjected, appears to have interjected a completely new album into the narrative without releasing 1989. Now we will talk.

over the next few episodes about when we're going to see some 1989, because there's a hell of a lot of time between October 21st and things like her birthday, December 13th, and we have seen lots of content come out in that window before. But the fact that she decided to put this album out first tells me she really likes it, Nora. Okay, let me jump the gun on the 1980 thing for a second, because I want to be there with you.

that the reason that the timeline is what it is, and I totally agree with you, the reason it felt like 1989 was coming, was because at one point, 1989 was supposed to be coming. No doubt. This is just gut feeling. It was underway.

But I do not believe that she would have breadcrumbed to the extent that she did to play Lucy with the football with her fans. Correct. And not put it out, right? Like that was leading to something. She does a lot of sneaky things. but that was, I think, over the line.

She's very sneaky. Unapologetically so on Midnight's Mayhem with me. But, okay. Is there a possibility that the reason that we haven't gotten in 1989 is because the shake-it-off lawsuit is going to trial in January? I just don't think so. Why does it matter? Either she has to pay or she doesn't.

Well, but isn't there as sort of a two-ed, right, like whatever you owe for one song. Once you put out Taylor's version, it's two songs that have the same issue. But at the end of the day, she's got to pay for the rights to those songs, no matter what. She's still hoping to recapture the rights

for all the other songs on 1989. I just don't think that's why they held it. Now, maybe, maybe she does have a fairly conservative legal team that in the best way is very thoughtful. But go ahead. What do you think? So the thing that makes me think it could be part of it is because it felt like it was coming and then all of a sudden it wasn't. And it was last month, I think, when they had made this last ditch effort to get the case thrown out.

And that motion was denied. And the case was set to go to trial in January of 2023. So there is a pretty easy A to B cause and effect of we were going to do it, but now here's this roadblock. We thought we could get rid of it. Now we have to wait. The flip side of that coin is they seem like they're in pretty good shape with this thing. What's happened is the songwriters who wrote, players going to play. Play is going to play.

Hair quotes. Said she stole the lyrics for the chorus of Shake It Off. And initially, the judge that looked at all of it just dismissed the suit and said that the lyrics were, the quote was too brief, unoriginal and uncreative to warrant protection under the Copyright Act. There was an appeal. And on appeal, it got sent back to the judge

on the basis that that wasn't for him to decide. A jury was going to have to decide if they were unoriginal or not or not. and essentially that is what is now going to happen. Now, from where I sit, that's a pretty easy call for people. And I think the fact that even though the appeals court had said that, she still, her team still tried to get the judge to throw it out after that because I think the thing is just sort of like, come on, man.

I think they have pretty solid reason to believe or reason to assume that most people are going to react that way as well. I have no idea, but I would imagine they feel pretty confident about where this is going to go. But who knows? You know, it's impossible to be certain. So I can kind of see it, but I would much prefer to be with you that the reason they changed the timeline was just, hey, we want midnights out there. We don't want to flood the zone to the same degree that we did with folklore, Long Pond, Evermore, Fearless Taylor's version,

and Midnights is really good, so it has to take precedent. I hope that's the reason. Judge Princeati, can you also do the Mar-a-Lago docks? This is actually the second pod today where I've, like, tried to be a lawyer. Mission accomplished.

Next time. Color me impressed. Yeah, I mean, look, and then there's the obvious point, and we're going to talk about the tour further down the list here, I suspect. Tour? Tour? She's going on tour?

Well, I mean, listen, this album is going to be different. This is not cottage cord that's coming. And we'll talk about what it is in a second. But it is also possible that one of the best chief marketing officers in the world decided that for the live event that I am certain she is putting together, that it might be helpful to have an injection of non-cottage core music that had been put out after 2019. But I think that we start to get into the C-word calculating when we go too far in that direction.

I think more about the C-word creativity and fucking crazy because I just don't think she could hold back. She created this thing. She believes in it. and I think she interjected it into the process to get it out. Okay. So I think a big part of that of how we analyze sort of the creative space that this album is coming from has to do with when she created it. And our second question is from Ariadne who asks,

she says this album is about 13 sleepless nights throughout her past. So are these songs from the vault or is this a new album reflecting on the past? What do you think? Nora, I'm going to say something that's probably you're going to smack me. It's okay. We're on Zoom. I can't. You're going to smack me like I wanted to smack the making out old people. Listen, I don't know if we really are honest with ourselves. How many of the songs from the vault are on everybody's absolute must-listen repeat right now?

That's not to say that they're not worthy of the capital. catalog. But I don't think that what we got out of the vault songs were like massively enduring long-term, there's some that I think are great. I bet you think about me. Absolutely. Oh my God. She's insane. She wrote a song about me. I mean, you go ahead. Tell me what else is on your list. So I bet you think about me is if we're not counting the all too well 10 minute version, which I actually think there's an argument that we should be counting. Because I think there was creativity on her part in writing pieces of that. I do think that there were parts of that song where the lyrics that she'd written so long ago

were at least tweaked. I think that that version of that song has a bit of a hand of present-day Taylor Swift. That is not all-red era Taylor. Yes, but I think some of the other vault songs then by extension probably do too. So, okay, that's fair. Because if we don't count the 10-minute version of all too well, if we don't count Better Man, if we don't count Babe, then for me...

Better Man is awesome. Better Man is awesome. The real one that stuck is, I bet you think about me. I'm just obsessed for that. Yes, I agree. I agree. And then... I think nothing new and bye-bye baby.

I've had too much to drink tonight. And I know it's sad, but this is what I think about. And all I have is your sympathy. Have stuck for me. They're not quite. I don't, I would take, I bet you think about me to a desert island before those songs. Okay. But they hold up.

Okay. I also listened to the very first night and message in a bottle a lot more than I thought I would I heard them for the first time. Okay, but relative to, if we take a look at the cornucopia of content that has been released since July of 2020, we would probably not say that a lot of the vault songs are in your top 10.

I agree. Right? So I just say that because that's a comment on the work from the vault, which was, I think you're right, a lot of old, but probably 6040, 70, 30, something like that, old to new, where she was making some edits and some tweaks and all those things, right? And sort of bringing these songs to life, which is a long way of saying,

I don't believe that these songs are from the vault. I actually hope that they're not from the vault. I believe that this is a concept album that she had been working on because she is always working on something. And she probably, frankly, this is going to be her yet another. other re-release, she got done with 1989. Like, that's creatively interesting, but it's probably

similar work across Fearless, across Red, across 1989, where the work there is trying to match. It's trying to sing like you did. Yes, it's about Sonic Fidelity, more so than it is about creating something new. And I expect

that the, the claustrophobia of that, and probably at some point boredom of that for an artist who's used to creating not being a karaoke singer of her own stuff, probably forced this album and she's had the thoughts in her head. And so I'm excited about it because I think it's the first genuinely new stuff that she's written probably end to end, not to go Dame and Alburn on it, whatever. But like the folklore and Evermore albums should rightly be looked at as an incredibly,

incredibly effective and successful collaboration, right? Right. And this one, I think probably she had a lot more to do with the inception of the songs in the way that we've seen her turn on her iPhone, sit down at a piano with that sort of crumpled up, confused, slash frustrated face. And slowly over the course of, exactly, slowly over the course of months, we see these songs blossom from little ideas into these iconic anthems. I think this album was more created in that way. Admittedly with Jack as her co-pilot, we'll talk about that. But this one feels like a new one that I expect was in part a reaction to probably creatively feeling a little bit stifled by the karaoke job.

They're not from the vault. Hell no. The songs aren't from the vault. The only potential indication that they're from the vault is just the line in her Instagram post where she said they're the stories of 13 sleepless nights scattered throughout my life. Yeah. It's on a biographical. But she didn't say they're songs from 13 sleepless nights. We know that often if she can't sleep, she goes downstairs, she goes to the piano and then all of a sudden there's a great song.

Right. But she's not telling us that that's what she did here. No. No. And the vault tracks are a big draw for the re-releases, too. I think she would use them in support of those projects long before she would combine them all and put them all out. So I get why that's a big question, but I really don't think. that these are vault songs, and I'm glad that they aren't. Me too.

I agree with you that the collective... The collective songs from the vault that we have so far are things I love, and I'm glad we have, but they do not, to me, as a collective body of work, give us, I think, what we expect from a full firing on all-cylinders Taylor album. Yeah. They're kind of like the extended versions of the other album. It's also, look, like, they were, they were songs that now sometimes management wanted to cut songs and they didn't end up on albums, but...

There's some girl at homes. there's acknowledgement that these were things that were left on the cutting room floor, right? And sometimes that's for reasons that she doesn't like, but often she was the one making those choices to begin with. So I think that is all relevant context to how we look at the vault. Also, so other than Jack Antonoff, who's the only collaborator who we know for sure worked on this album, he did do, he did the production for Babe Forever Winter and 10 minute all too well, obviously. from the Red Vault. Incredible job. Incredible job on 10-minute all too well.

And then for Fearless Taylor's version, the stuff that he worked on was Mr. Perfectly Fine. That's when, don't you? And bye-bye baby. Too shabby.

I will say if we want to use the one carryover, okay, what's the most recent thing that Taylor's done with Jack? That's the list.

And from a production standpoint, that does not make me nervous. No. All right, let's move on. You mentioned that this is a concept album, which I think is relevant to this next question, which is from Christophcote. Why do you think she went back to a shorter album, 13 songs, standard version, instead of the 18 plus we've gotten on the last few releases?

I will say the 18 plus is when you factor in vault songs. Folklore and Evermore were 16 and then 15 tracks each. So definitely still longer. This does seem to be a concise project. What do you think is up with that? Well, I think we know that. there are songs 14, 15, 16 on a target release, correct? Two are remixes, and then one is an additional.

The Elvira stuff, you love the Elvira stuff. I want them to be just two more Willow remixes. Elvira Willow remix number one. 16 Willow remixes. Actually, who am I getting? Elvira Willow remix number 45. Yeah. I think it's because she is

a maniacal freak about the number 13 and that conceptually in her mind that's probably how she thinks she's probably got some synesthesia in her she's definitely fanatical about this number and so she packed it in it was very convenient to have 13 songs she knows that's going to resonate with the fan base

and she probably set out a few constraints breed creativity it happens it's why Twitter as a platform RIP, have fun with it, Elon. It's why Twitter as a platform thrived because you had at least originally just a limited number of characters. And it is why she probably put some constraints

in place around this album. I'm going to write about this specific thing, about these moments from my life, and I'm going to do 13 of them. And that gave her some structure, which she appears to really like in her life, and a framework to go create and fill up those boxes each individual.

I hope it's because her insomnia isn't that bad. I hope she hasn't had like, you know, is Taylor having a sleepless night every other night here? How many of these are we supposed to be able to mine for a whole story? Yeah. I suspect she's thinking, she's taking probably some liberties about exactly how sleepless they were, but they certainly are going to be, there's a, there's already a notable, vulnerability in the presentation of this album in a way that she presented folklore and Evermore as more storytelling and a little bit less personal even though we could parse through the fibers of each of those albums and find very personal parts of them. It was more storytelling

and narrative and this is already starting to feel like something a bit deeper and a bit more about who she is at a person, as a person, at now 32 going on 33 years old. Right. And I think that lends itself to something that... This is a specific concept, right? I don't necessarily think that she's trying to take people on a journey with this album,

their vignettes, and probably some concision plays well into that. somewhat related question from flow state. What type of record are you hoping Midnights will be? We know she will continue to creatively explore new sounds and styles, but are you hoping it's an album with several chart-topping hits or something more like her, quote,

indie folk slash alternative releases? Well, I know, I'll speak for myself. First of all, of course we want some chart-topping hits. Let's get some bangers on there. It will not sound like if by her indie folk alternative releases, this question is talking about folklore and evermore, it's not going to sound like that.

For the reason you mentioned before, those albums were created through a very specific process of Aaron Dessner sending her music and her writing lyrics to that music and then coming together and it was the specific product of that collaboration. Doesn't sound like that writing process and that collaboration is a part of this album. So it will almost automatically be different. And for me, I think you were right to point out the possibility that this album has touring somewhat in mind. It doesn't seem like the most natural fit for super over the top, like 1989 style pop songs.

It seems much more, you know, it's intimate, it's interior. by definition, all of these stories take place like inside her room, inside her head in the middle of the night. But it does seem like the aesthetic of it is kind of glamorous in its own way. It's listed as pop on... That's what you have to believe.

Yeah. Just believe your eyes. What are you seeing? You're seeing it's listed as pop. And I believe that. I think it's going to be a pop album. I don't think it's going to be quite as like glittery huge as 1989.

Right. But you know what song I think is going to be a touchstone for this is gold rush. Yes! Yes! I knew you were going to say that and you're so right. Because why? It's the last original song she did with Jack. Yep.

And yes, that's an Evermore song. And it endures. It endures. It's really good. Yes. The vibe of that song to me feels so much like just the aesthetic that we're getting from her in the Midnight's Baham videos with the imagery that's accompanied. What aesthetic are we good?

What a aesthetic are we good? The first video, I think we text each other like, is she like starting in a reboot of hair or what? It is like, there's just like a lot of upholstery. Like, it's very interior. Every single video, she has a totally different haircut. Well, because she's trying to make it seem like she did all of these at a different time when she obviously did them the same day.

We're on to you. We know what's going on. But okay, that's my answer. I think it's going to sound like Gold Rush. That's the last song that Taylor and Jack worked on together. It is a little bit... I don't want to call it out of place on Evermore

because I actually think that the presence of a song like that on Evermore distinguishes Evermore from folklore in a way that's important. Like, I will die on the hill that those are musically. distinct albums. Yeah.

But the intro to Gold Rush is pretty flowy. Like they made that little, the little, like, angelic voices. It sounds like twinkle lights. Yeah. And they almost just sort of had to do that to make it fit. But I think, look, just by virtue of it being a jack song and not an Aaron song, it was different. And if I had to bet, and now this is coming from the same person who, after Lover,

thought that Paper Rings was the best song to go, all right, she's going to do pop punk next. like the Fallout boy fan. So I've been wrong before, but that's my best guess. I think that's tremendously wise. And I also think the other clue that she gave us was the making of video

that had the song by Nice Boy Ed as the backdrop. They show her and Jack in the studio and she's bopping. She's bopping. She's bopping. And it's not a cruel summer headbang bop. But it is, is very much a gold rush getaway car bop.

And that's where I think this album's heading. I'm screaming. I'm screaming in glitter lowercase. I think that's the aesthetic of this album. All right. Sid is asking us, before the album comes out, what are your early favorites based on track list and song titles?

Now, there are going to be more of these by the time this posts. but for now, we have mastermind, vigilante shit. Mastermind. Question. Dot, dot, dot, question mark. Vigilante shit. Oh, that's good.

You're good at doing the phone thing. Midnight rain. Midnight rain. Maroon. Maroon. And anti-hero. Anti-hero. What has tickled your fancy?

Anti-hero. has tickled my fancy. Because of her video about it. Track 3, anti-hero is one of my favorite songs I've ever written. I really don't think I've delved this far into my insecurities in this detail before. Yeah, this very clearly is a song she's in love with. It may be the reason that this album is coming out. She maybe built the whole album around this song.

We're going to find out. but in a way she has not revealed a whole lot about the, it's, the release has been somewhat formulaic, right? She got up, she knew she was getting the VMA. So they decided, you know,

to take that moment to announce it, which is great. But that is a fairly traditional way to announce an album, right? And even, even the way that she gave that speech, you could, I don't know,

It was very much not off the cuff. I think there are moments where she's a decent actor, and let's see how Amsterdam is, hopefully better than cats. I literally can't believe all of this stuff is happening right now, and then like every 15 minutes, it'll just pop into my mind. Oh my God, she has a movie coming out.

Yes, she's in Amsterdam. I don't know if I can talk about this. I'm not buying that he died of natural causes. I think her acting is a lot better than it was on stage that night, because I think there was a little bit of like self-awareness that she was going through the motions. She knew that she had won that VMA, right? So it wasn't like she had to feign absolute shock

at winning the award. But the point of her showing up and getting that award was to announce this album. So what does that mean? I think there's been sort of a fairly traditional rollout here. What was not traditional was sort of a break was the video that got posted along with Antihero, the little interview clip.

And that's her telling us that it matters. And it means a lot. And that, as she said, it's as vulnerable and deep as she's gone into her own insecurities. And I love it. I can't wait to hear about it because we haven't had that level of reflection from her in the better part of three years. And I'm not sure that lover she dove extraordinarily deep into her own psyche. That was more of an album about the blossoming of her relationship with the other guy who has maybe also an actor?

Never heard of him. We love you, Joe. Yeah, love her. Love her for me, actually, the tough thing is that it got there, you know, it got there with the archer, but then I don't think that song really gets there musically. So you didn't have the combination of a song

that she's super in love with and that type of vulnerability. She said about anti-hero that it's literally one of her favorite songs that she's ever written. Yeah, big statement. That's a high bar. Yeah.

So I am excited. What about me and Taylor? I like this better than your British accent. My British accent's gotten good lately. Oh, no. All right. Beyond D.Hero, I don't know. Vigilante shit sounds fun.

She's swearing in titles. Yeah, we're bringing it forward. I mean, we tracked through the course of every single album, Taylor Swift, how slowly but surely she's began to interpret. integrate all kinds of bad words into it. Now she's pulling it into the title. Maybe her next album is going to be just called Fuck.

It's going to be like an Eminem album. There's six explicit tracks on this. Fuck this. My 11th studio album You can swear on TikTok. It's called fuck this. The other thing I want to shout out is that Erica Wilkinson

on Twitter had an idea that Maroon could be about the sleepless night. She may have had after Red lost the Grammy for record of the year. And Red, Taylor Swift. And the Grammy goes to random access memory is death. I love this theory. I'm fascinated to see.

There's quite the story about being in the bathroom, absolutely devastated, being helped up off the floor, inconsolable. Right. And the work that she did to go back in absolutely. And there's no way she went home and got a good one. good night's sleep. So I think it's kind of interesting. Okay, here's one from Nolan. Why is she still working with Jack Antonoff? Not Shade. Genuinely curious. Not Shade. Given her previous main collaborators had three to four album shelf lives, Nathan Chapman, Max Martin. I think they've

already reached their creative peak together. Well, that is Shade, isn't it, Nolan? I don't know if it's shade. It's constructive critical questioning. Okay. I think it's a good question to ask. I think they're still working together because this is a really vulnerable way to write. Yes. And of all of the people that she's worked with and in how Jack talks about his own career, one lane that he operates in a lot is kind of, let's talk out your feelings. That is augmented by the fact that they're really good friends.

they know each other really well. But even with the people that he works with who maybe he doesn't have as close a relationship as he has with Taylor, it seems like that's a mode that he likes to work in. I think that makes a lot of sense for this type of content. It also seems like maybe she's increasingly

in a stage of life where she wants her people around her. Now, that can be dangerous territory. So in the way that Nolan said no shade. I do genuinely think that that's something to think about when we process this album. Is can he take her somewhere? Can she go with him somewhere where she hasn't been before? Because this looks like it's supposed to be a new era, a distinct era. And I wonder how they will make that sound. To me, though, because I am such a sucker for Gold Rush,

and I see that as the last thing that they coming up with something new, not working out of the vault, did together. I'm optimistic about it. Okay. I am a sucker for goal rush, as we have discussed. I am also right now flipping out

on two Jack produced songs, one older, one new. The old one is the Bleacher's song, 45. And the new one is the 1975 song, part of the band. Vaccinista to-back-cheek baristas Sidney's on a communist and keysed

And those are both wonderfully vulnerable emotive songs that really, as far as I'm concerned Only Jack could produce But listen, Nora, when I interview people Can I cut you off for one second? Yes, please.

And one of the reasons, one thing he's really good at is making intimate songs big, making them sound big and bright and sound like things that you could play in a stadium. And I hope that that logical train of thought actually wasn't super explicitly spelled out here. I doubt it was. I think they probably just wanted to sort of create together. but if there's a kernel of touring in mind with this album,

he's a good person to do that with, not just because of their relationship, but because of the aesthetics that he's really, really good with. When I interview people for a job, one of the questions that I ask is, what is your superpower? Because it always shows like a self-reflection for people to be able to say what they're really good at,

even though it can sometimes make you feel uncomfortable to sort of brag about yourself. And then, by the way, you also ask what they suck at and what they want to get better at. But Taylor Swift's superpower is figuring out who to work with to evolve her sound into something that will connect with her fans. That's what she is the best in the world ever at, just about. It's why she left Nathan Chapman. It's why she went to Max Martin.

It's why she sought out the National and Boni Vair. And it's why she found Jack. So on this, I trust her. I trust her implicitly. She will at some point, I'm sure, make a decision that there's somebody else who she wants to work with.

And by the way, that's why she reached out to Aaron Destner. And then she brought in Jack to sort of help augment those couple of albums because she's comfortable with them, but I think you nailed it.

This is going to be an extraordinarily vulnerable album, which is saying something for Taylor Swift, but it feels like this is about hard stuff and she's doing this with someone with whom she feels

extraordinarily comfortable music. to sort of share all of it and get there. And, but I also think she is smart enough, again, as the world's greatest CMO to know when that working relationship has come to an end. And she has proven herself to be willing to edit her team and edit the team around her. You can't fire your crazy uncle, but you can edit your producer and the people in the band and the, you know, the people who are contributing to her creatively because that is what she, that's the alter at which she worship.

So I'm not concerned about this one. If you don't trust her to make good choices about who she works with, then she will, at that moment, be past her prime. Agree. Not concerned about it here. You don't want any more jack albums after this. No, she...

So they have a special thing. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of what she does forever and ever to all of our benefit, she will have to find the next person. She will have to find the next ingredient that catalyzes some sort of reaction that spins her forward.

They say this about you and me too, Nora. No, never. This is a very delicate ecosystem. It's just Yumi and Kaya, and that is the perfect formula and we can't mess it up. We'll be metaphorically making out on a bar stool, just like those 90-year-old people.

Gross. It really was. Not like you saw it. Okay. Let's talk about the tour. Yes. Eric asks, when do we think tour tickets

will go on sale? So the business norm is you put tickets up to go on sale in the fourth quarter for a spring, summer tour, because you want to get those things up

before or as people are spending their holiday gift money. Well, okay, so hold on, hold on, hold on. Is there a tour? Page 6 says there's a tour, but do we say there's a tour? Unequivocally, yes, there's a tour. Explain. Well, artists make 80 to 85% of their money from the road, and she has not toured since reputation.

and it's coming. Sure is Sunday. It's time. We've talked before about... Go ahead. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I believe there's a tour. It's time.

There's a tour. There is a lot of buzz about, okay, she's booked stadiums, she's ready to go, she's got the dates. Some of that existed last year. It did. Now, having a hold on a stadium date, my understanding is that does not necessarily,

mean complete done deal. No, that's right. Absolutely happening. No, no, no, no, because a stadium says, a stadium needs the concerts to make money, right? Because they're lying fallow. If you're an NFL team, unless you're the, you know, L.A. stadium or New York. They're lying fallow.

How Shakespearean. Unless you're the Jets Giants Stadium. Lying undisturbed and fallow in the meadowlands of New Jersey. they need concerts because they're dark like 350 whatever seven days a year if they don't put more shit through their stadium other than home football games, right? So they need the utilization rate to be higher. So stadiums are happy to hold a date for Taylor effing Swift because they know they're going to make a lot of money through parking and, beer and concessions and all the things that go around an event that help drive revenue for stadium. So, yes, a hold does not necessarily mean this is a tour.

We know that there were holds last summer that they ultimately didn't go. But the overarching dynamic in the concert business right now is, first of all, the big high-profile artists are absolutely crushing it. Now, Harry Styles may be a unicorn in this moment, but Harry Styles not having any trouble. selling tickets. There is also a lot of supply out there. There are more artists on tour than ever before. We are looking at a 2023 that could have some components of consumer recession that certainly is now outside the boundaries of the government money that was handed out to a lot of

people to help with all of the issues that came out of COVID. And so the question that is unresolved is just how much money is going to be spent on concerts in 2023. There will be a lot of money spent on concerts, but the question is, does the average fan have enough money to go to 8 or 3 or 15? And what you know is if you're Taylor Swift, they're going to spend the money to come see you. What you don't know is if you're further on down that list

and you're not anybody's number one how it's going to go. So Taylor, that said, still wants to get out in front of a lot of the other artists who are going to put stuff up for stadiums in 2023 and arenas and other shows because, hey, she wants to make sure that as people budget their money and their time, right, that they're thinking, all right, Taylor Swift, yes, and now, you know, how am I going to allocate the rest of my money? So I expect, and this is a long-winded way of answering your question, that she's going to have tour plans up before Christmas. I'd be really surprised if she doesn't put tickets on sale before then.

And... Particularly because... Okay. Caviot. I really thought she was going to go out last year. So... But I think the same reasons that we thought she was going to go out last year sort of, you know, not wrong, just late. Particularly because one of the other artists she might be not directly competing with, but as people allocate their resources, might have Taylor Swift tickets available

and Beyonce tickets available. Mm-hmm. And God forbid Rihanna tickets. Oh, my God. Every economic forecaster. Yeah, but this is it. I hope you are taking this into account. But this is it.

And we live in this age now where in a stadium show, you are seeing ticket prices up and up and up, and the artist deserves that money. Let's be clear. Like, historically, that money goes to scalpers. it belongs in the pockets of artists and the only way

to make sure that scalpers don't take that money out of fans' pockets who are willing to pay is to charge what a ticket is worth. So there's going to be a lot of competition that's out there. That's not to say that it is a competition between the artists.

It's just that in a time where there's constricted consumer spending, it just makes good business sense to get out there. And I think you're going to see her get out there. Okay. Let's keep talking about the because Brad's question is with the supposed touring plan being all four albums,

what are the songs you absolutely want to hear live or dream set lists? Well, let's first talk about if this thing is in stadiums. And it seems like all of the rumors and the buzz that's out there does indicate that this seems to be a traditional-ish stadium tour. Now, we don't know. She might have eight, nine, ten, bajillion things up her sleeve. But there has not been anything that I've seen to indicate that she would be doing, you know,

the hairy residencies or something really out of the box. She could surprise us because I think she's made it a goal, you know, she tried to make it a goal with Leverfest to upend traditional touring. So maybe she'll find some way to do that. but I don't know anything that indicates that that's what's happening now. What do you think about that? I'm going to be stunned.

I'm going to be stunned if she does just a traditional stadium tour. I'm going to be stunned and to be honest, I'll be disappointed. Because I think she has this unique opportunity, having watched what's happened in the concert business over the last couple of years, where the biggest artists are now moving towards residencies, not just in Las Vegas like Katie Perry, but looking at what Harry Styles is just finishing up. He's about to come to Los Angeles, where from a cost perspective, the artist makes more money. It helps to pull demand out of the market. And so for the upper deck seats, you can actually offer ultimately cheaper prices. And in her case, I don't know how folklore and Evermore play in a

stadium. I mean, maybe she can fly. Listen, they can figure it out. But it would be so interesting and I think innovative and I think evolutionary for the business if she took this short residency concept a step further and said I have four full albums

that I haven't toured behind and you also haven't seen me on the road since the reputation tour and I also have a bunch of re-release albums that have a whole bunch of new songs so you could argue that they're actually

including some of the 1989 stuff, six albums that have been put out since my last tour. And so I'm going to create a set of experiences around those albums because there's no way to integrate those fully into a single tour and have people who join the journey at different parts feel like they experienced the albums live. So I will be stunned if she doesn't do some kind of multiple show experience.

Maybe a big one in the stadium with the bangers, followed by, you know, a couple of nights that are in, not Radio City, but almost like a Lincoln Center or, you know, Disney Concert Hall,

something that's more intimate where she's actually playing the Evermore and Folklore Songs in a sort of environment that is a little bit more appropriate to experience those things. And maybe, you know, maybe she does a club show as well.

And so she's got sort of, you know, really high-end, smaller venue, a big stadium for the sort of anthemic stuff, and then something in between. I'll leave it to her to be creative director of that experience, but I'm going to be really surprised if she doesn't continue to think about how to innovate in the live space. Like you said, she started to do that with Lover. She has every opportunity to do it now, and frankly, an economic model in front of her based on the way that Harry just went from town to I'll be shocked if she just does a normal stadium tour.

Are you excited, Nora, to see folklore Evermore in the stadium? Does it work for you? So, do I need to see folklore or Evermore in a stadium as the headlining albums for this show? No. I will say, and I think she would probably have a mind to this, you want to tow the line right between making every experience feel sort of bespoke, which I think she's done really well with the surprise songs in set lists on previous tours and also making things feel comprehensive.

It's not an accident that you go to a show on the reputation tour and you hear part of love story because you want to. Because that's one of the Taylor Swift songs that you just want to hear. So I don't think that... I don't think she's going to do something where it's like you can go to A

or you can go to B and they're really, really... You can get with this. Wildly different. Right. Yes, exactly. I think... You don't think she's going to star

into Broadway shows. That's sort of my, that's my dream. I have this fantasy that she's going to, you know, literally that, and we'll talk about the Super Bowl, but the part of the reason she didn't do the Super Bowl is she's basically prepping to star in a couple of shows right now. Yeah, but that, that stinks for a lot of people because. Tell me why. Because those tickets are, you think you can get into that show for less than a couple thousand bucks? Which one? The, the club. Yeah. Lincoln Center. No. I think that devalues the experience of a stadium show. I think that makes the thing that most people go to feel less special.

Even if she integrates a few of those songs into the overall show. I think it's really, really hard. You could see her selling a pass to fans that gets them into all of it, right? Like a subscription? Yeah. So look, if I had to make a list of people who I think could thread that needle, she is at the top of that list. And there are, you know, One Night Only is sort of a, is not a great example because it costs

$25 bucks, right? But like, there are experiences that these artists just have to accept that there's going to be a lot of disappointed people because they're not going to get to be a part of it. The demand is greater than the supply. And that's just, that's what it is. So I don't, you know, she's not going to be doing herself any favors if she looks at the challenge of figuring out what this is as how do I make literally everybody happy because that's impossible. I think that's a dangerous game, though, because you are segmenting your fans into who can see the special intimate show and who can't. Well, that's a matter of pricing, though.

I mean, she could, I guess she could try to find a way to say, you know, it's a digital only ticket and it's 50 bucks, but if you buy it, you have to be the person who walks through the door and we're checking your identity, you know, and it's tied to your phone. I mean, she could do some things to control. So if she could figure out something like that,

then, then, you know, there's still a lot of people who can't go. Yeah, she's aware of the optics. If it's just like rich people, right? If it's just... Because if she gets like a lower bowl, Super Bowl crowd, because that's the other thing too, right? is like, if she gets, you know, they always talk about, it depends on the game, but the Super Bowl doesn't have the greatest crowd, right?

Because it does not depend on the game. It's usually. It's terrible. And a lot of people. Because it's a really corporate thing. Yeah, it's corporate hospitality. It's people who are there with Salesforce. Johnny, great sales guy for Salesforce, gets the ticket.

Yes. It does depend on the game. There's, there's, when the Patriots played the Eagles, that Eagles is correct. was kind of legit. But it usually sucks. And they're probably even rowdier when it's just like an Eagles home game. So anyway, I think that's the scary thing.

I think and hope she will be smart about that. And it could be very exciting. She just has an opportunity to innovate here and I hope she takes it because she gave us the glimmers of it through the Lover Fest stuff. And now she has the content that is diverse enough to go for it. Do it, Taylor.

Okay. I want one song from you that you absolutely want to hear live as part of this. You can choose the context for it. I don't need to think about that question. The answer is cruel motherfucking summer. Hell, yes. That song needs a moment. It deserves a moment.

And I believe it's going to get one. Ugh. Why did you say that? A whole crowd of people just screaming the bridge with her. it would be magical. The he looks of grinning like a devil thing will be great too. It's just hard to see that song right next to Ivy. Yeah, but even her stadium shows.

She always pulls it back at some point. Yes, it's the sort of like Renaissance Fair vibes are going to be tough to translate. Yes. But she always, always, always has a section of a show where it is just her and piano. does the three-song acoustic set. I get that,

but that's usually what gets reserved for the songs that are, she has marketed via the re-releases. So I just don't know how you used to. I mean, like, make a set list right now.

It's crazy. It is crazy. It's going to be really, really interesting. Like, what are her priorities? She's put out these re-releases. How could she not play Love Story having done a re-release and re-recorded fearless. How could she not?

How could she not play We Are Never Getting Back Together? Or she's going to play 10 minute all too well. That will be the last song of the show, I'm sure. I think if, if, let's say that it's, let's say that most of the shows she's doing are of similar scope, right? like we're not having an A, B scenario where some shows are in a 70,000 person venue and some shows are in a 5,000 person venue. Split that down the middle or whatever you want to do with it.

But let's say that it's a big enough place where it's not a super stripped down concert hallie feel. My best guess is that she focuses on the songs that everybody wants to hear. from... No. From the re-releases Midnight stuff. Can you go back to the phone thing? And does like a three song...

What if the surprise song, instead of a surprise song at every show, is a surprise set? This song is called me. And it's three or four songs. And they switch back and forth. And that has a lot of folklore and evermore in those...

little changeable pieces. That's my thought. I don't know if you guys remember this song is called me. Yeah, it's hard. It's very hard. I mean, and creatively how she manages the costume and the dance

and all the stuff. Like, it's just, it's the vibes, Nora. It's how she manages the transition from totally different vibes. Not to mention, like, let's not even get there, but like, who's going to open this thing? Is she going to bring Desner out on the road?

Can she get the string section? All these things that would have to happen to bring this stuff to life. It's a lot, a lot of work. Okay. Our ninth question was from Emily, who asked, if Taylor does a stadium tour for Midnights, do you think the only times we'll hear folklore

and Evermore live are as surprise songs? I think we just kind of covered that. Is your answer yes? I think essentially the... No, my answer is, if that question is asking, Are we going to get one folklore or one evermore song per night? I think the answer to that is no.

I don't think that they are going to be 10% of the content that she works with. Now, maybe they're 30 and the other stuff is 70 and they do feel a little bit minimized. And the people for whom, you know, those are their babies and those are the albums that they love the most, you go listen to watch Long Pond again, maybe figure it out that way. But folklore won album of the year. album of the year. It has to be performed. It will be performed. So that's what I'm saying is I don't think it will be performed that little.

I think it will have a substantial place. The flip side of that is that folklore won album of the year. A lot of people listen to folklore. Folklore owned quarantine. Evermore never really got any shine. It's almost ever more season. It's always ever more season. But no, I think the answer to that is is no.

I don't know. that they will, I don't think this is going to feel like the folklore and evermore tour, but I don't think that they are, you get one song a night. I mean, I was kidding, but like, are we going to hear me? No, we're not hearing. Are we going to hear paper rings? Are we going to hear Cornelius Street? We're going to hear Cornelius Street.

I don't, I hope we hear paper rings, but I don't know. Are we going to hear this is why we can't have nice things? No, because this is why we can't have nice things closed to the reputation door. Yeah. she's not going to dive into that era of stuff. Now, I don't think that it means she can't touch it, but no. I don't think we hear a lot of reputation

just because that tour was so widely attended and has done its thing. Okay. There's a lot to sort through here because, like, again, we haven't even heard lover. Lover. It is, now, this is, is maybe a little bit of an overstatement because I'm probably when it comes down to it, more excited about just having a whole new album.

Yeah. It is the most fascinating question. In some ways, more than what Midnights is going to sound like. It's just how does she, how does she figure out how to put all this stuff together? Where does it happen? Yeah. How often? Better play Death by a thousand cuts.

Got to. Why is death by thousand cuts? Blastbacks waking me up. You're making a set like. You're like, I can't even imagine making a set list. Starts making set list. Sorry. Question number 10.

This has been written in from every ringer staffer who immediately slacked me when Variety posted what turned out to be an erroneous report that Taylor Slift was headlining the Super Bowl halftime show. Was it though? What happened with the Super Bowl halftime show? Was it though? I'm interested to get the ultimate breakdown. Yes, it was because Rihanna's doing it. Okay. But what was going on behind the scenes, I wonder?

I think we need an investigative journalist to dive in because I think sometimes with these things where there's smoke, there is fire. It's worth noting that Rock Nation is just a great management entity that manages a bunch of awesome artists and Rihanna is one of them. Rock Nation also has a relationship with the Super Bowl. Rock Nation also has very quietly, after Jay-Z said we're sort of past the kneeling, when he signed that deal to work with the NFL, he has very quietly, and without a lot of fanfare.

If people don't know what that is, Jay-Z and Rock Nation essentially have a hand in producing the halftime show. They also have this partnership that has some relevance to some of the NFL's and their social justice initiatives. I frankly can't really tell you what that looks like, but they have done a lot in making the Super Bowl halftime show. One, a more diverse appearing performance, also a better performance. I mean, by a mile. Last year in L.A. was badass. And I think they get full credit for it.

And I think at the time a lot of people looked at it like, oh, this is the NFL in the wake of all the social justice stuff and the Kaepernick stuff with bad reputation, just trying to get a press release. and to Jay-Z and Rock Nation, the team at Rock Nation's credit, it sure looks like they've delivered, and they just put their heads down and stopped using words publicly

and just started using action. So full credit to them. And I think Rihanna is an awesome choice. I am... Oh my God, yes. I am wondering and am interested to know what the actual behind-the-scenes dialogue was. Look, you and I talked extensively about this.

creating a show for television is very, very different than creating a show for the in-stadium listener and watcher. Let me just tell you, I was in stadium for the Super Bowl last year and live. It was okay. People were excited. It was cool. But it was not for us. I was looking at, you know, Eminem and Snoop like from the back and the side. Like there was not, this was for a camera. And the replay of it was freaking amazing, right? That's very different than if those guys went out and played a stadium tour. And there's a lot of prep that has to go into a Super Bowl

show because you're working against the Beyonce moment. Everybody's working against the Prince moment. You're working against all of these iconic performances and it takes work and cost and time and everything, right? So,

That is work. If, as I suspect, Taylor Swift is trying to get ready, A, to release this album and to go through all of the work that, you know, all the appearances and everything around setting up an album for success. But then she's going to kick off a stadium tour and maybe a multi-show residency in six-ish months. She's doing that work. and the idea that you would try to prep for both is pretty difficult to see. It just, it would be the most work she's ever had to do.

Again, it would be like trying to star, literally, in two Broadway shows at the same time. It just takes an enormous amount of work. So I suspect that it could have been there for her. I think there certainly had to have been a conversation for that, you know, that as much smoke as came out to be leaked. And I don't think it's a coincidence that very, quickly they came over the top to make the announcement,

both about the sponsor, but also about why Rihanna was playing. How do you feel about Rihanna as an act? I mean, let's not put them in competition for sure, but Rihanna's going to slay the Super Bowl. I saw her play the All-Star game years ago. She kicked ass. I just don't know.

Does it pretend an album? That's really what we give a shit about. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. I don't know if this is, maybe this is an unpopular opinion among Taylor Swift fans. I get that to an extent you love Taylor Swift. You just want to see her do stuff.

So you're bummed out that she's not doing the show. I could not be more excited for this because we know Taylor is doing stuff. And maybe those two people, those two women are one A and one B for who should do the Super Bowl halftime show who haven't done it yet. Right? Like Rihanna has 14 number ones. Rihanna is probably pretty healthily the most exciting musical entity to me

that's not Taylor Swift. And the fact that she is getting on that stage is a bigger deal than Taylor getting on that stage because we know Taylor's doing stuff. Rihanna performed one song at the Grammys in 2018 and that was the last time she did. did something musically in public. Wow.

Wow. And it's been such a question of if we were going to get to see her do music ever again, that even if it were something like they were going to go with Taylor and then they got a yes from Rihanna and went over the top with that, I got to be honest, I get it. Like that is a huge, huge, huge, huge, huge get. And I'll be super excited if we learn that that's because she's. is working on music and there is more coming from Rihanna that this will be part of the lead-up to or in support of or whatever.

But they're one A and one B for this thing. I think they will both do it eventually. And I got to be honest, we know Taylor's going to be out front with a lot of stuff. A Rihanna citing is just so rare, even though I'm sort of bummed that it's not Taylor and would be so excited to see her do that. I'm so excited for this thing. can't fault them for a second. There's backstory there. You know, there is also... I hope she does it. I mean, I hope that means that the shortlist is essentially those two. Yeah. She's, she's going to do it.

She's going to do it before it's all said and done. I suspect there's just a lot of prep and that was work that didn't fit logistically into the schedule. But, you know, speaking of backstory and speaking of things that are slightly still unknown, I have a question from you. Oh, boy. And it came from Katie, but it's come from basically everybody on the internet. And that is Who is Nice Boy, Ed? Are you posing this to me because I'm the conspiracy one of the two of us? I am 100% going to pose this and two more to you because you are the Tin Hat nut job of the group.

Who is Nice Boy, Ed? And is it Ed Sheeran? Okay. I think that is the Occam's razor answer here, is that like Nice Boy Ed is like Ed Sharon's rap name. That is the one that makes the most sense to me. There's a famous Ed in Taylor's orbit. He seems nice enough.

You actually think it's the Joe Alwyn buddy. No, that one I really... There's more theories here that I know I don't believe and will be shocked if come true than ones that I really feel strongly about. The two that I think there's no chance it's Joe's friend. Really? You're here to shoot that down. I think that makes no sense.

Why? If you're Joe's buddy who's... Now, I guess like if Taylor specifically asked Joe's buddy to like play this role, you're happy to go along with it because you're getting attention on your career from Taylor's left. Like she could have put anybody in the music. the song and putting the song out and staying quiet about it online. But if this is a friend of

Joe's who has a budding music career that she is spotlighting, is she really going to do that in a way where then the guy can't even talk about it? No one can know who he is. He can't put out new music. He can't do anything. You think it's Joe, don't you? No, I don't think it's Joe either. because all of the accounts that follow Nice Boy Ed are Joe Stan accounts Yeah and he followed the account which is why people thought

that it was his friend but if it's a pseudonym for Joe I don't think that she would name the Joe pseudonym after her friend Ed Sheeran Okay that doesn't make sense to me Okay so tell me. The other one that I really really don't believe

is that it's a partial anagram for Beyonce because you end up with an eye and a D left over, this woman is like an avid scrabble player. Yeah. I mean, she's not operating with that that kind of imprecision.

No. She's going to all this trouble. It's not going to work. From the last time, all the scrambled words. Like, she's not going to, she's very precise. The one that I love

is that the way that she pauses and uses punctuation and pauses in a way that the auto text generator picks up as punctuation for the videos is, communicating a message in Morse code. Yeah.

And that it says UK, Ed is me so that it would be Taylor with her voice altered in some way on the song which is called Life You Lead. I don't know. It's all too weird.

The one that makes the most sense to me is that it would just be Ed Sharon. I think we're going to find out. I just think this is one of those things where she's sort of playing the role of doing this straight. She did the VMA announcement. She's doing the ping pong ball turns on the video. But there's just a few little Easter eggs to keep everybody stirring and making shit up. I think that

there was the whole counting down finger thing, right? Ariela came to us with a question about that, where there's this theory that she's counting down something on her fingers in the Midnight's Mayhem with me videos, right? And I don't even know, because I've gone back in looked like that she's putting fingers on her leg or something. Well, it's like one of her hands is, you know, in her lap. And in the first one, it was sort of flat out so you can see all five fingers. Then the next one, she's got, you know, her thumb tucked underneath her palm. So it's four.

Imagine the scrutiny. Imagine living with millions of people scrutinizing you in this way. Imagine the scrutiny. Thank God. Imagine knowing that the scrutiny is taking place. And the scrutiny started after either she went down to three fingers or four fingers or four fingers down. This is madness. This is why we're getting this album.

In the fifth one, people were already talking about this. Because she'd already recorded them. She must know. That's true. Okay. Never mind. Air out of balloon. This is ridiculous.

It's ridiculous. You make this woman crazy. She makes me crazy. This is why she's up, sleepless. And again, thank God, because we're going to get an album. She makes me stay up until midnight every other night. I mean, people are... She's vindictive.

People are just losing their minds over this. They're really looking... I think she's just sitting back cackling on this one. She's enjoying playing it straight and just listening to people be like, I counted the braids in her hair. Oh, my God. Have we counted the braids yet? Does somebody count the braids?

We need to count the braids! All right. The thing that I love is when, and I try to hold myself to not do this, because I do have a bone to pick with a lot of the conspiracy corner people on the internet. Actually, I have quite a few bones to figure with them. But one of them is that if you are going to voice a theory, you need to say what the theory means. Yeah.

There's a lot of like, Taylor held up three fingers, which means she's either married or she's going to murder Harry Styles. Those are divergent outcomes. You don't have a theory. The theory of relativity couldn't be like gravity or Taylor Swift's going to murder Harry Styles. It doesn't work.

There's a lot of... I've found... I've found the pot of gold, but not really any indication of... Anyway, it is what it is. But I do think... Look, she's born on the 13th, 13 years after the Kanye...

incident to VMAs. She accepts the VMA for her 10 minute video of a song, announces her 10th studio album coming in the 10th month of the year, and it has 13 tracks. Like, it's not crazy to start counting fingers. It's just a little insane, and I wish that she would not make us so nutty. But with that said, speaking of 13, we are on our final question, and it comes to us, unbelievable from Taylor Swift Stan who says do you think

the upside down phone hang on do you think the upside down phone has a hint of subjects

from around the rep era also what are your thoughts of her not really performing most of

Evermore or lover Taylor Swift Stan I think we've gotten to the last part but Nora

yeah and I think she will perform parts of what's up with the upside down

phone the upside down phone for the uninitiated in the Midnight's Mayhem with me videos for vigilante shit and anti-hero instead of picking up the phone right side up so that the cord hangs down she picks it up and holds it to her ear upside down so the cord like loops over

I think she's just being a goofball yes she thinks it's hilarious that it makes noise out of both sides right she's just being a silly goose and we love that for her. There are some theories that it indicates either the tracks that will be remixed on the deluxe version. That would obviously be proven false if she does it a third time because there's only two remixes. But like what a boring way to communicate that? Like a small thing to communicate.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me. Or tracks that will have guest features, particularly because the first one, the video for vigilantey shit, the special guest in the video was Meredith the Cat. I don't really believe any of that. I also don't believe this theory, but I'm going to mention it because I'm deeply glad it exists. There's a theory that the cord coming out of the top of the phone

is meant to symbolize Ariana Grande's ponytail. Because if you look at it, it does like come out of the top of the phone and loop down in kind of the same way as the high pony. In service of what? It means that Ariana is all over this album

or she's just like a tribute or what is this? it means that Taylor put a head out on Harry Styles. Yeah. That's what it all means. No, it means nothing. It's just good internetting. It's just good interneting.

Do you believe, just from a macro level, do you believe that she's playing it straight in these midnight mayhemes? I can't say it. Whatever. These videos... Midnight's mayhem with me. Yes, Midnight's mayhem with me. Is she playing it straight?

Or are we supposed to be looking at clues or is she really playing it straight? besides the fact that they're pre-recorded and she's made a choice about the order in which to release them. There are clues in there. I don't think there are as many clues as there are things that are being taken as clues, but I think there are clues in there. I think Nice Boyette is a clue.

I can't... My best guess is Shearin, I can't really figure out what it means. I think that's a clue. I don't really think the phone thing is a clue. Okay. If your best guess is Shearin, and then I promise we'll let this one go, you don't like Ed Shearin. How do you feel about this?

I do like Ed Shearin. I just get annoyed by Ed Shearin sometimes. Involvement with her. So this would be bad news for you. I don't know. I think they sound nice together. And if her goal here is to do the collaborations that she's doing for this

with people that she's really close to, I will accept it. It is true that I will go, oh God, a Shearin thing. We're just always with you. that Sharon. I will grumble a little bit, but I'm a curmudgeon.

Well, Nora... Not usually, but specifically about this. I don't know with zero musical content how much more we can talk about this album until we get a little sniff, but I think we're only a few days away from getting a little taste of what this album is going to sound like.

That would be very exciting. And if that happens... It's back to the bar. Do you think those people are still there? God, I would be. They were having a great time. This has been every single album, Taylor Swift. I'm Nora Preciati.

As always, he is Nathan Hubbard. We will be back at a later undisclosed date, probably because Taylor Swift has done something, but we've got some other stuff up our sleeves too. As always, thank you to the wonderful Kaiy McMullen for production on this episode and to you for listening. Thanks, Kaya. Thank you.