Every Single Album - 13 Times Taylor Swift Sings About “Midnight” | Every Single Album: Taylor Swift

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

Surprise, surprise: Taylor Swift has 13 songs where she sings about midnight. Nora and Nathan go through and give their personal rankings for every song where Swift mentions either “midnight” or the “middle of the night.”   Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This season on gamblers, I'm going to take you from the drag strips of Florida, where if you want to race, you have to put up $10,000. To the Lynx in Vegas, where you'll have to bet $40,000 a hole. All the way to the Casino de Monte Carlo in Monaco, where a game of badgammon can earn you 50,000 euros. From the Ringer podcast network, listen to Gamblers Season 2 on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to every single album, Taylor Swift.

I'm Nora Pinciotti. As always, I am here with Nathan Hubbard. And we've still got a couple weeks to go, a little over a week before the release of Midnights. But we can't stop talking about Taylor Swift, can we, Nathan? Well, because she can't stop giving us stuff to talk about. What are we supposed to do? I know.

Well, we've come up with something to do, which is we're going to call this episode every single midnight. because we are going to go through all of the songs in Taylor's discography where she mentions midnight or the middle of the night, specifically the middle of the night. We're not doing like 2 a.m. 3 a.m. because that feels like a stretch. And also because if you collect all the songs she's ever written that reference either midnight or the middle of the night. Here we go. Guess how many there are? I'm thinking somewhere between 20. and 14.

13. There are 13 of them because of course there are. Nathan actually knew the answer to that question because we have each ranked them. So from the best song that does this to the number 13, we don't know each other's lists.

And we're just going to have some fun with all these songs, run through them, talk about the songs, talk about the rankings, see where we match up, see what insane take Nathan comes up with to like rank some crazy song really, really high. I will list all the songs so that people kind of like know what we're dealing with before we start. So she has done this

on style New Year's Day. I want your midnight. Nothing new featuring Phoebe Bridgers. Ready for it. Better man. You belong with me 22 It feels like a perfect night For breakfast and midnight Happiness

From the dress I wore at midnight Daylight I think that's Fought me in the middle of the night I Untouchable You're in love Coffee at midnight.

All too well. Last Great American Dynasty. Pacing the rocks staring out at the midnight scene. So, we're just going to go through and we're going to have some fun. How does that sound? I'm ready for it. I see what you did there. All right.

Let's start with number 13. Nathan, what was the last song on your list? You go first. I really struggled with this. because for me, these songs are in like three tiers. I didn't do tears. Well, I didn't do tears really either, but I certainly could be convinced to move songs around within a tier.

You'll never convince me to move them across tears. Anyway, number 13, and, you know, last doesn't mean it's bad, but it's untouchable. this is a precursor to lucky one. It just is kind of there. And across the portfolio of songs that are in this basket, of which there are many intriguing ones,

this is one of that echelon or that tier for me that is near the bottom. Make a case for why I'm wrong. I did not. Untouchable is not my 13th song. I know that you and I, I have a soft spot for that song. that I think you don't quite have. I remember talking about this before.

So that is just a song that I like quite a bit. I do think, you know, it's the cover of the Luna Halo song. And I do think the fact that it has this midnight in the middle of the night when I'm in this dream reference shows what a great picket was for her. Like it meshes with this

cononic part of her referential discography, which I think is so funny. I just love the melody to this song. I think the vibe is like kind of, it's fun to have that slightly more sophisticated feel on a track on Fearless. It's not, I'm not going to give away where it is on my list. It's not like at the top. But I would rather, there's a couple songs that I would choose untouchable before.

Okay. Including my 13th song, which is you are in love. which to your point about none of these songs being bad made me cry this morning. Wow. I was going through the list. I think this song is like just sort of fine. I would rather like the 2 a.m. I wish you would.

I would rather how you get the girl of these sort of like not super, super famous 1989 tracks. The later tracks that to me give that album the richness that actually. actually makes it something that isn't just top-heavy singles but has some real consistency to it. This just isn't that high on that list. I think the Snow Globe thing is incredible and how that comes back around

and the lover music video is so cool. But it's just a little bit of a me a mess song to me. Well, it's Secret Garden by Bruce Springsteen. Sure. And that's what I can't get over. I actually really like the song. I love it melodically.

I like the chorus. I like the bigness of it. I like the way everything sounds. I just can't get past it. But still, I didn't put it 13th because there's, I think I just have a, like, ridiculously soft spot for all things, 1989. And hearing this song sort of brings me into the flow of that album.

But it is not, like, from a songwriting perspective, the best work she's ever done. I still would put it ahead of untouchment. All right, let's find out what's next. What's your number 12? I think this is going to be somewhat controversial. At least it was in the car on the ride to the bus stop with my daughter this morning. Daylight.

It's a little forgettable for me on Lover, and there's a little weird umbrella vibes in a few places. Oh, okay. I don't hate it. I just... Okay, what? No, keep me. I'm interrupting you because I'm mad because I'm mad, because... I think I didn't rank daylight this low

and I sort of think that I ranked daylight too low. Oh, really? So here's the problem. A lot of the verses are a little meh. Like there's, there are whole chunks of this song that are just not doing all of that much. Yes.

But then once she gets into that, like, I once believed what love would be burning red, but it's golden. Those layered vocals. It is so good. is so explosive. It is,

ugh. And I do think, like, it gets overshadowed because, yes, I would rather listen to death by a thousand cuts. Like, there's songs that fit this vibe that I think are better.

And I don't, like, I don't know how much the little, the voice note at the end does for the song. I want to be the things I hate. I'm afraid of. But those, that layered vocal effect

that comes in later in the song is so good. The bridge is so good. That's so juicy. It has so much to it. And just that chunk, again, I rank it higher. And I still was like, I'm looking at the song

sort of holistically and going, I don't know that this, you know, first second to last second holds up as well as some of these other songs. But there are some moments that it just, shatters me to have, like, in the bottom half of this list. So I feel like we, we as a collective

are underrating daylight, but I can't, you know, I don't have a like to stand on because I also think that I kind of underrated it. I think it's one of the weakest album closers that she has. Oh, no, I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that because I think it's, it's, it's, well, what's worse? The point of it is to be an album closer. Yeah, I know. The point of it is to have the little note that sort of, you know, and maybe you can make an argument that you shouldn't need a mission statement for the album and a voice note at the end of the last song. Right. Because you should just trust that the album itself communicates that, which I think it does.

Now, I will say, if we didn't have this voice note, this song is not on this list because that's where she says, I want to be defined by the things that I love, not the things that haunt me in the middle of the night. Yeah. But it is a really, the song itself also, you could argue that the song itself gets that message across on its own. And I think it makes sense as a book ad. It's just fine. In this list of songs, there are some absolute home runs. And I don't think this is one.

I think you're right. It's sort of like set up for the statement at the end. and I just think melodically it doesn't grab me. It just was a little forgettable for me. When was the last time you rolled out daylight in your track list? Come on. I listen to this song. I also, sometimes I neglect Lover a little bit, like, as a collective.

And when I was listening to these songs, I was like, oh, this afternoon when we're done potting, I'm just turning on Lover. Lover's just going to be going to be bopping. Okay, well, that's never a bad idea. But what is your 12th track if it's not daylight? Okay. This might be controversial too. My 12th is happiness. I'll cross a great divide. There is a glorious sunrise.

Dude, that's my 11. So... Okay. All right. I'm glad we're in agreement here. It's my least favorite song on Evermore. If I'm honest, I would rather listen to You Are in Love, which I put 13th than happiness, which I put 12th. Well, why were you not honest? Well, so I want to... That's the point of this exercise.

Listen to me! I want to give happiness some reward for how hard it's trying. And... We already have a song called This Is Me Trying. Okay, hold on. This song is like a 10 lyrically. Just like absolutely beautiful lyrical writing.

on the song. It's really creative and there's some, you know, there's some 400 level stuff with the way that she is matching words and the cadence of the lyrics to the rhythms and the melody

of the music that Aaron Dessner created here. Like, that is really, really cool. The storytelling, like the reference to the dress I wore at midnight. The way that that could be a callback to so many songs

and her discography is so cool. The problem is the melody is, if all of those are tens, the melody of the song is like a zero. Haunted by the look in my eyes, that would have loved you for a lifetime. Leave it all behind. And there is happiness. I just don't like it.

I don't, I think it's a really, in a lot of ways, really good song that I just don't have a lot of interest in listening to. So I put it 12th because I believed that it deserved some recognition for, playing in a pretty advanced playpad in certain ways. But it's not my faith. But you actually like it less than you are in love. Yeah. I'm so confused about your rankings, but we are in agreement about this song. There's something about happiness and against the sort of melancholy background that is an interesting contrast, but I'm with you that musically this isn't particularly an interesting song. So, I am untouchable daylight than happiness. What are you? I am, you are in love,

happiness, and then at 11 is where I have untouchable. I don't think it's fair to put it, you know, any higher than that. It's not her song. She didn't write the lyric, but I like the song quite a bit, and I think it's a very clever, happy accident, maybe, or maybe something very sharply considered to have her cover a song that shares this reference to the wee hours. Well, I'd still feel like we're forming a tier together, Nora, broadly speaking. Is this where your final tier ends? Yeah, I think it does.

Your bottom tier is three songs. Okay, yes. I'm actually with, I'm with you there. I think it is, and I will say that I was a little bit, schizophrenic about you are in love. Because I could easily be talked into moving you are in love further down into this tier where you are. I just sort of enjoy it enough. The Springsteen stuff is upsetting, but I could be convinced that it's in this bottom tier. It's just that my next one is the one that I think is the most controversial and it's going to make you the angriest.

Oh my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Okay. Well, so, so, so, 10 is where I have daylight just to close the loop on that. Yeah. Yeah. But I do think that it, like, if we're talking about tears, I haven't thought this through of what the tears would be for my whole list. But yes, there would be a very clear delineation between 10 and 11 there. Because I could make an argument for daylight being probably five slots higher if I really tried to.

And I wouldn't, I wouldn't hate it. Well, I gave you the opportunity to make an argument for daylight being not the weakest album closer. that she has. But I really... I'm not about to know what you're about to do. Yeah, you are. Because number 10 for me is New Year's Day. Don't read my speech,

but I stay. When it's hard or it's wrong or we're making mistakes. This song has always been a miss for me. I know other people love it. For me, it's just stuffing too many words into a song and the song itself feels like this collection of ideas. I also just can't get the piano scene from Big out of my mind because it, you know,

it lifts a lot from heart and soul. I just get those piano scene vibes. My daughter says it's the best album closer other than clean. Now, she's a lunatic, but it is in some way like the perfect way to end reputation, like as Billy Elish says, you don't want to end on an angry note. And so there is this sort of moment of, I don't know, of brightness and end of the craziness. And I get why it exists. It's just not something for me that resonates deeply. And I know that I'm in the minority there. Okay, you're actually crazy. You're actually unhinged. I'm, I'm so frustrated right now because I'm not doing myself any favors with where actually on my list

this song is ranked. Because it's going to be like seven or something and it's not going to indicate how much you like it. It's just, so again, like, your tier mechanism is actually very useful for me in this moment, so I'm going to use it. Let's tier it up. 11, 12, 13,

like, those are very clear to me that those three songs are at the end of this list. Once you get past that, like daylight above here, every single song is of exceptionally high value. This is like, first of all, this would be a good album. These 13 songs would be a good album. New Year's Day, we can talk about where it fits among the best closing songs.

First of all, it's actually interesting that this and we're talking about this in daylight because they both have the same thing where there's the portion at the end. obviously daylight closes with the spoken part. But before that, where she has these just like killer lines that get layered over each other and she kind of like a New Year's Day starts to sing and around with herself.

The please don't ever become a stranger whose laugh I can recognize anywhere and the hold on to the memories they will hold on to you. Do you think those lines are too wordy? I just think that they were not all written to be together. I think they're pieced together. I don't know. It just doesn't land for me.

And I don't know. Every young woman I know loves this song. It's so, it's, oh, God, it's just, sometimes I struggle with the song to figure out how much I really, really, really truly love it because it gets paired with call it what you want. My babies fly like a jet stream high above the whole scene loves me like I'm brand new. For me, like that two songs, sort of those two vignettes close that album on that very like happy, contented sort of self-actualized note. And I love Call It What You Want so much. But then sometimes New Year's Day just hits a little harder. It's just so like.

This is what I'm talking about. Call It What You Want is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful song that is about something that I think everybody can relate to, which is just like wanting to. be secure in a relationship and blocking out any sort of outside noise, there is an element of it where that is a song about like a particularly celebrity problem. Yes. New Year's Day is such a universal feeling. And it is like just finding someone where the fun stuff is fun,

but you can wake up and clean your apartment on New Year's Day is like so, just that's such a warm, fuzzy blanket of a song and I love it. and I think the ending of it is so touching and stunning, and it makes me cry. I am perfectly comfortable with the fact that I'm wrong about this. It just, there is some portion of people, me included, for whom this just falls short. But you love Call It What You Want.

I adore Call It What You Want. It's one of my favorite songs on Reputation. And I don't hate the transition, especially after she, like, does the weird pause on Call It What You Want to And then boom, here we come and do it. Call it what you want, yeah, call it what you want to. I just, it doesn't feel musically to me.

It just felt like stuff I'd heard before and lyrically it felt like a collection of snippets of ideas that got stuffed in. And by the way, she talked about the song and said that. She had been sitting on the, please don't ever become a stranger who's laugh I can recognize anywhere. And it feels a little bit like a grafted tree of like five different fruits, which maybe is yummy, but it was a little too acidic for me. Do you think it suffers to you as an album closer because reputation does kind

of have two closing songs? Like call it what you want is kind of an album closer. It just happens to not close the album. Yeah, I don't think it's the weakest album closer. I get why she used it to close the album. I think daylight is weaker as a sort of album closer. It just doesn't land as a song for me. That's it. I get the vibe and the aesthetic. I think that was spot on

and I understand what she was trying to do to tie this one off. And it resonates with a lot of people. It just was a miss for me. Maybe because I haven't walked in the lobby carrying my shoes. Girls carrying the shoes down in the lobby. As songs, I like both of these songs more than I like begin again.

I think it's strange that you think I'm Okay There's like real You know There's something to Again there's something To that song

Being an album closer Yeah I thought I thought Begin again Sort of tied off The narrative of Red really really well Well right But again I think daylight

Ties off the narrative They're all It's gosh It's tough It's tough And it's I mean clean is a great album closer It's hard for me to think

Of it as an album closer Because I refuse to Yeah Except that new romantics is a bonus track. I understand. I understand. Look, I am prepared to be canceled for my New Year's Day take on this, but it just doesn't, it just doesn't resonate for me. What is a little weird for me is, well, so what is your 10, though? Your 10 was... My 10 is daylight. Yeah, it's daylight. So, but like, so what's weird for me as I look at my list

is that my 9 is ready for it. And for me, it is all about the throat clear heading into that song. It's just cool as hell. It's just, just cool as hell. It's definitely the most jarring intro song in the entire canon. And it took me a long time to like this song because I guess I was a little bit put off by the integration into like ESPN college football. And but the more, I think the tour helped because of the way that she sort of intros with it. The more that I listen to it, the more I like it. I think I just had such a visceral reaction to the early part of reputation when I first heard it, that there was just some lingering distaste and through the course of our podcasting and just time, this one has stayed as something that I actually

enjoy. But it's weird for me to see it ahead of New Year's Day. I'm just telling you how I feel, Nora. I put this song ahead of New Year's Day too, and I flipped them like four different times when I was making the list. I think you can tell the story of reputation as an album without New Year's Day because you have call it what you want. I don't really think that you can do that without ready for it. She does, when she clears her throat, it's a whole new era. And there are so many different textures in this song, the sort of the brattiness and how sort of tinny and aggressive the verses are.

And then that, Rhyber First time that he saw me stealing hearts And running off And never saying sorry And then that That you know

Breathy Island Sort of like Kygo could never chorus It's all really cool And And this song didn't take me That long Once we had the album

The whole reputation Rollout was obviously jarring in a lot of ways But it's a really really good song It's a song that I listen to a lot more than, than I think, kind of makes sense just because it's a kind of weird song. There's a lot of weird choices.

It's so campy that it feels like something that should take a very specific moment, a very specific mood. But it really doesn't because it's just interesting and there's a lot of different parts that sound really, really good together. Yeah, I think it got lost in the Look What You Made Me Do shuffle for me. I didn't love Look What You Made Me Do is, you know. And I think I'd sort of tied these two songs together, but on a standalone basis, this is a good song. Yeah, because it wasn't different enough from, like, it's still something that really doesn't sound like anything that we'd heard from Taylor Swift beforehand.

And look what you made me do, which I love, was admittedly very jarring. And ready for it wasn't as the second single, wasn't different enough to not feel. like it was more of the same thing. So she couldn't, and maybe she wasn't trying to, I still don't get that album rollout, but whatever. Even though I liked it, it wasn't enough of a horse correct. Getaway car wasn't a single?

Or like, what do you mean when you say you don't get the album rollout? I don't think that, I mean, I get it from the story that it told. I just don't, it seems like such a, like it was almost antagonistic. And again,

I really respect it. Like, I think that's fun and interesting and I love talking about it and I love thinking about it. But if you are trying to get the most people interested in what you're doing, the choices were interesting. Yeah.

Yeah, around the singles, around the aesthetic. Yeah, she was angry. But the beauty of that album is, it sort of comes in like a lion and goes out like a lamb. Which this song does on an individual level. Like the moment, you know,

the middle of the album is a lion. the night reference is that in the middle of the night in my dreams, when those lines come in all of a sudden, it's this like soft, pretty flowy thing. And it's just a very cool song. It's a very cool song. I think this is an underrated Taylor Swift song. What's your number nine? So nine is where I have New Year's Day. See? You have it's only one spot ahead of me. Okay, but I like it so much better. So this is why I was annoyed. I wish I'd, like I could have

How did you spend that much time countering my points and not be like, yeah, it's only one higher? Anyway. Because it might just be one, it might be only once higher on my list than yours, but in my heart, number nine on the list, number not one in my heart. I did not think you would put this behind last great American dynasty. And I'm actually surprised that you put it behind 22, because I really thought you were going to put this thing.

almost close to your top five. So that's interesting to me. Oh, you are in for some surprises, I think. Okay, that's fine. Bring it on. What's your number eight? So eight for me is ready for it. Okay. This is the, this is the reputation here. I know. I know. I think that's going to end. I have a feeling that's going to end. That's fine. What we can say is that eight through 13, we agree on what songs are eight through 13. You are in love, ready for it. New Year's Day, happiness, daylight, untouchable.

What number was you were in love for you? It's going to be eight. Okay. Okay. Okay. So the biggest difference we have so far is you are in love. Yeah. But you could talk me into swapping that with like any of these other songs except untouchable and daylight. I couldn't get you to swap you were making a trade. I mean, maybe for a first round draft pick. You were in love with daylight. No. No, I wouldn't put it back that far

because I just didn't like, I didn't like it. Like, it's more listenable to me. You are in love is. Oh my God. It can't possibly be. This is not, nothing against you,

you are in love, but the like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Like, oh, it's so good. I'm just telling you. We're aligned on these on the bottom five. You have to go listen to like the last. two minutes of daylight, like six times in a row, before she starts talking. I need you to do that

for me. Will you do that for me? Yes. At the conclusion of this podcast, I will go do that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Sounds like, why would this be any other, any different than any other Tuesday? All right. So, 8 through 13, we have different orders, but we do share the same songs. I'm surprised by that, actually. I wonder who's going to be sort of very. against this ranking, is somebody's going to be, if somebody's going to have a really big disagreement, it's going to be around New Year's Day. Somebody's going to have New Year's Day one or two. I mean, I think there might be more disagreement with my You Are in Love ranking than yours. Okay. Like, I think I'm definitely lower on that song than the general population. I agree. I agree. And I'm

lower on New Year's Day. But still, they were in our bottom five and it's time to get to our top seven. So now it sounds like we get into some hand-to-hand combat. What's number seven? Seven for me is the Sad Girl Pop Star National Anthem. Nothing new. I've had too much to drink tonight. And I know it's sad, but this is what I think about. I feel.

I mean, I'm just, this podcast is really going to suck if we keep agreeing, Nora. I mean, Phoebe, I love you very much. I wish I loved the chorus more. It just misses the moment slightly and doesn't have that like build. It was also like the precursor to all the drinking songs on reputation and lover if you really treat it as a song from the vault.

But she did finally give a female singer a verse. And so with that, I ask you, what is she going to do with your girl Lana Del Rey on Snow on the Beach on the upcoming Midnight's album? Lana Del Rey, in my opinion, is one of the best musical artists ever. The fact that I get to exist at the same time as her is an honor and a privilege. And the fact that she would be so generous as to collaborate with us on this song is something I'm going to be grateful for for life. Okay, we're going to talk about this at multiple points in this pod.

But I think to answer that specific question, I think Lana will get a verse. I don't think Lana's just doing backing vocal. And is that because they're really close and friendly? Is it because of the Jack Gantinoff connection? Because Jack's worked more with her than with Taylor? Like, why do you think she's going to get that status where other female singers did not? So I think, first of all, we've talked about this before.

I just do not look at having Heim do backing vocals as the disc that some people think it is. I think that's so important to Taylor. It's worked so well on songs. I do think it was meaningful that Phoebe ended up being the first person who got that honor.

She does it on this song. It's really, really special. By the way, I think this song slays. Like, again, once we get to 10 on this list and arguably 13,

because as I said, I put on you are in love this morning being like, can I honestly say that this is the last song on this list? And simultaneously felt that that could be true,

that that could be an accurate statement. And I wept. I wept at my kitchen table. So, like... I think there was more about the rough in the passer penalty on Derrick Carr. On Derek Carr, strip sack.

Yeah, it was tough for you to see last night. But so just, just understand that being seventh on this list is no demerit for this song, which is one of my favorite vault songs. I love the calling this the link in Taylor B. beginning to write drinking anthems, particularly because this was the one that she used when she posted that TikTok of when she got really drunk at that party and drunk Taylor trended.

It was very funny. If anybody hasn't seen it, you should go look it up. But the Lana thing, I think it's, I think it would be a little bit weird to have literally just one feature on an album and then have the person be kind of, be not super. super present on the song. I'm sure she could pull it off, but I would find that a little bit weird. I just think that this, you know, when we recorded last week's episode, it was before snow on the beach had been announced as a track list. But we were talking about Jack being the only known collaborator that we had and whether he would be doing the whole album, whether it was time to move on, what that would look like. And I think the fact that Lana is the only featured artist and who is someone who has recently worked a lot with Jagg Antonoff lends sort of additional evidence to what we were talking about

where I just think she made this thing with a really sort of intimate group of people. I don't think that this was a record. It seems like she wanted to make by, let's go out in search of the next person who's going to push me into a new mold, which is something that I hope she does, you know, sooner rather than later. But I don't think that that was what seems like made sense for this project. Lana was part of the Jack Universe, so she went with it.

Yeah, like, let's be in this sort of cozy bubble and make an album from there. Do you think they're close? What? Do you think they're close? I don't know. In other words, was she a useful instrument? A little bit more if they were super, super close.

But I very much imagine that there is a lot of mutual musical admiration there. And then if you're going to work together with someone that you admire as an artist, know personally somewhat, and then also have the connective tissue of a producer that you're both super close with,

that person makes sense to bring into this very tight-knit, intimate fold to me. Well, she's coming. I think we're totally aligned on nothing new in this list of 13 songs.

It is one of the voluminate. songs that carries the best for me. Totally. I just wish the chorus was bigger. There was an opportunity with the two of them. I love Phoebe's voice on this. The chorus, this song still, like, really has its moments for me. And the other moment on this song that really gets me is the line, I wonder if they'll

miss me when they drive me out. But I wonder if they'll miss me once they drive me out. Yeah. Because it's such an anxious song and it's so vulnerable and it's so, like, 95% of the song is so the outside world has control over what happens to me. And it reflects all the anxieties of feeling that way.

And then there's just the one, and like that's such a Taylor thing to me is the one line of just like, you will regret it if you do this. Or at least like I'm wondering if you will because that's not something that's going to never occur to her. And I love that. Now I'm dying to hear what your sixth is. Because this is where it gets, this is where a shit gets real. Okay.

I know what your top three are, but I have no idea what your next three are. I don't know if you do. I just don't know if you do. All right. We're about to find out. Six for me, we can keep talking about Lana, actually. Because six for me is Last Great American Dynasty. And they said, there goes the last great American dynasty.

It's getting creepy in here. Oh, God. This is terrible. This is terrible podcasting. We are getting so much group think happening, you and I. You didn't think that for 30 hours talking about Taylor Swift, that our minds would become one. But yeah, it's Last Great American Dynasty.

Oh, gosh. Yeah. So I love this song. This song I could have ranked much higher. I think there was a previous iteration of this list for me that had Last Great American Dynast. as high as fourth. I also think one thing I didn't really factor into my rankings is how the midnight reference

is used. I just was looking at the song, how it fits in the album, how much I like it. However, the moment when she says midnights, when you get to the, they say she was seen on occasion, pacing the rock staring out at the midnight sea. They say she was seen on occasion, pacing the road. that part of the bridge where it's toggling back and forth between those minor chords and those major chords is so satisfying. It is the best. It is the single, like even actually the three notes where she says Midnight C or later when it's key lime green.

Like that is the single most satisfying moment of the entire song. So it's like I could argue that it would deserve. if I factored that in more, this song might be higher. I love this song so much. But I do think that it has like real, the sort of old Americana, but a little bit satirical cheekiness

is very Lana Del Rey. And if I could pick a song to be like, I hope snow on the beach sounds like X or has the vibe of Y, it is this song. I think you're right about that.

But I love it for different reasons. I love it for, and then it was bought by me. Where she breaks the fourth wall on the album. It's the most obvious part of folklore that tells us that there's a tiny bit of autobiographical reference through the songs, the way she sort of injects herself into a few of these stories, like Epiphany as well on folklore.

Where there are little bits of herself that she puts into these nerves. It makes me hungry for what we're going to get with Midnights, which at least so far is being promised as a full, this is about me, this is as vulnerable as I've ever been, these are the hardest moments of my life. These songs are all about me. We've been talking about her albums in order, right? Lover, we know is about a relationship.

Reputation was about the sort of public persona and the tumultuousness of what she went through. in public, folklore and Evermore were ostensibly these collaborative stories to be told. So maybe it's

1989 is the last time that we've had songs that were truly deeply, deeply about her where she wasn't either playing a character or telling, or speaking to sort of

a single feeling. But you're right that this song does have, does give us some of that because even, you know, the way that it ends is obviously the best example of that. But the callback to the use of the word marvelous,

which was something that she'd used in Starlight, coming back around the self-awareness of the discography, of the self-mythologizing, like all of that is there, even on an album that we were told, even though I don't really believe her, like wasn't about her. I do believe her that it was less about her

than some other albums. But it's just so detailed and those details come from lived experiences that I just, even if the subject of a song is like really truly not about Taylor Swift, steeps in there, just gets in there. And that's great. I love Taylor writing songs about Taylor. So that's fine.

But who boy, okay, we are in sync here. We're sharing a brain. I'm waiting for us to get out of sync. Let's find out if we do it on number five. What you got? I have 22. Okay. And I want to know why this isn't like her biggest anthem.

Why do I like this song more than most people? And you feel like, you feel like that's true. I mean, am I crazy to put it fifth? I feel like a lot of people are going to be like, uh, 22 is like eighth. Like I don't, I, like, it's just, I don't understand why it's not a bigger song. That would surprise me.

I think of this song as as super iconic. Okay. So here's what it is. Here's what it is for me. And this ended up being a mechanism that I used trying to rank a lot of things. You can tell the story of the album read without this song. because you have, we are never, ever getting back together. We have, I Know Your Trouble.

You can go through that album and explain what was going on with her, and you can hit the same notes without this song, but it doesn't mean that you don't want it. Can she play a stadium tour without it? She could. Like, yes, she could. Will she? But it would be worse.

Of course. Do you think she can still get in front of a microphone and sing, I don't know about you, but I'm feeling 22? Yes. Yes. And sell it. Yes. 100 million percent. I'm 28.

I feel 22 like at least four times a day. Well, it must be nice. I also feel like 87 like four times a day. Will it be on the stadium tour set list? Because you've got it higher than five, I take it. I do have it higher than five. Which means you have it. higher than one of you belong with me,

Better Man's style, are all too well. You know what? I think it might be. Because in the, remember when in the reputation tour, she had that like whole section where they did shake it off. And it was just sort of like a party two thirds of the way through.

Like you almost take a break from the narrative of the show that she's, put together, like, we're doing the reputation tour. It's telling this story. It's all, like, dark and exciting and whatever. But then there was that moment when Charlie XX and Camilla Cabo came back out and they did the whole thing and she, like, ran around the stadium and did a whole thing. 22 would be a great song to do that with.

I can see it being part of a stadium tour in the year 2023. Now, if she'd gone on tour this summer, it would have been there. For sure. But, yes. I can very much see it being part of a stadium show that Taylor Swift would do right now. It's so hard to put a pin on like this song will be part of the show unless it's literally cruel summer. Because there's so much stuff to work with. And it's not like she hasn't had opportunities to perform 22 and to put that out there.

So I don't know. But yes, I do think that this song, like every tour needs one of those glitter gel pen songs. that she talks about to do something like that with. And I think this one qualifies, and I would be into it. The other song that's definitely going to be on the set list is 10 minute all too well. But we'll cover that in a bit, I presume. Yes, of course. What is your number five?

If it's not 22, what took the back seat? So I really, really, really struggled between this song and 22. But my number five is style. Ooh, and here's where we get it. into a fight. I knew this would cause something. Why? I love this song so much. This was probably the most surprising thing. I can't believe he said that. This is the most surprising thing to me as I was making this list is I was just like, I don't, I can't put it higher. I love this song, but I can't put it higher. It is, it is the 1989-iest of 1989 songs. Yes. It's the most timeless song on 1989.

But there are, but, but, um, 1980-1989 is just so the aesthetic of that album is so strong that that might be true. I'm not sure that it's, I'm not sure that that's the statement that it would be for a different album. Like, the enduring song of red, you know, being all too well is a little bit of a different,

like that exists in a different stratosphere because 1989 is this incredibly complete album. So yes, that's true, but there's like five other songs on 1989 that could do this. I love this song. This is where it gets incredibly hard to rank these things, but I just can't.

There were moments when I wanted to put Last Great American Dynasty ahead of here. Like, it's just... I love style so much, but it's just a vibe. Like, it's just a vibe.

Look, the, first of all, the intro destroys me with the guitar into that just like, like, the beat comes in, the bass. It is the coolest song that she's written.

No, it is, cool and the intro is so cool. And maybe I let a little bit of how she actually says midnight seep into the rankings here because it's the first thing she says. Yeah. But the intro is so good

and the vibe is so overwhelming. I like have no clue what she's saying. I'm not even, I'm just like, whoa, what's happening? I feel like the cover of Midnights could have been the cover of the single of style. Like, it has the same vibe for me. Wait, does she smoke now? What's going on?

No. Gross. No. Like, cigarettes? I don't know. What's the lighter? I don't know. It's weird. We'll figure it out. No, but like, really, what's happening? Is it really? Is it a light? It's like a, I think she's lighting a candle. I don't know. No.

Taylor, explain yourself. This needs a little bit more forensic exploration. And I heard maybe it's because like Joe has the lighted cigar. I don't know. Oh, doesn't he have a collection of lighters? Yeah, something like this. But still, are we sure? I don't know.

Has she gotten fed up? Has she gotten fed up writing songs about drinking and now she's going to write songs about smoking? That's the only thing she hasn't done. Depends what she's smoking. All right. So it's style for you at five. Style is not, I don't think that,

I get what you're saying because the, The color palette of style is the same color palette as Midnights. Style is not a particularly intimate song. It's not like deep into the psyche raw. It's just being cool. Well, it's cool as hell. And it made people think Harry Styles is cool. I also wish it was track five on that album.

But it's not a track five. But is all you had to do is stay? That's the worst track five in the anthem. in the anthology, I mean. I think that's fair. I think that's fair. But style is not a track five. Well, it destroys me

and it was not my number five and I'm not going to reveal where it comes out because now this is war. Okay, okay, okay. But like, I mean, if you're looking for a track five, that's not all you had to do is stay. You've been wildest dreams.

Like, wildest dreams or I know places. Obviously, you want to keep clean, like, clean where it is. Why not out of the woods? Sure.

Yeah. Another song that is not, you know, that song is not as special to me as it is to you. Yeah. But I would be totally fine with that. Okay.

Would you be fine with me making you belong with me number four? I'll accept it. I'll accept it. I feel brainwashed by this song. I feel like I have to like this song. And I do.

I do. But I, this is where, the group think to me, I have trouble parsing out the sort of lore from how I actually feel. Sure. It's hard to fight this one. And it's because of the melody. It is like I don't think you should try to fight this song because I think what she does,

you know, everything in this song is Taylor in that era at her peak, right? Maybe not quite the peak of love story. but it really does, I think, hold up on the basis of you have this song that is by a teenager, sort of for the teenager in all of us. She's holding up the, you know, they're communicating in the music video via sign. She has a little bit of a victim complex.

That's sort of funny. But the melody is so juicy and just so fun to sing. I think you should like get Stockholm syndrome for this song. or whatever it is, be brainwashed by it. I'm just making sure that it's okay that I have it. And you're telling me that the answer is yes. It's okay that I have it. I think four is a, it's not my ranking,

but it's an appropriate. Well, what's four for you? Four for me is 22. A song that I've never once not been thrilled to hear, but that I don't think occupies a truly, actually like there's probably a little bit of a mini tier here of you belong with me. and 22 because they are iconic songs that I love listening to think are among her best.

Neither one of them occupies a singular place in the Taylor Swift universe, right? Like, you belong with me is a little bit second fiddle to love story. Yeah. 22 sometimes takes a little bit of a backseat in some ways to, we are never, ever getting back together. And I know you were trouble. or in other ways takes a little bit of a backseat

to like shake it off if you're looking a little bit more broadly. But they're just incredible songs. But did you just create a tier? Yeah, I did. I can create tiers too. But so do you put style in there?

No. So maybe that's just like a little category. I'm not saying that it's a style. style isn't a tear of its own. Okay. I can't, style isn't like any of these other songs to me. Because you know what it is?

It's not that common that the thing that we love most about a Taylor Swift sound is just the vibe and how it sounds. Usually, either specifically how the melody sounds or the lyrics, the meaning, the storytelling.

Like, more often than not, the superpower of one, song is one of those two things. Neither of those things is style superpower, which makes it unique, but also makes it like it scrambles my brain. Your draft board must have looked like the scene in a beautiful mind where you finally gets revealed that he's completely insane and talking about nonsense. It was revealed that I'm completely insane a very long time ago. The way you draw these tears is just got to be ridiculous. All right. Well, so then that actually for me brings up a great deal of curiosity and interest around what your number three is.

Three for me is you belong with me. Yeah. Okay. Look, when you told me this game, we didn't say anything back and forth. Yeah, I had no idea. No, we did not say anything back and forth. You tipped your hat a little bit to what your first two are. And that's because you said you really were dying.

to see how I ranked Better Man versus All Too Well. But I turn the table on you, Miss Princeiada, because now it's you who has Better Man and All Too well in the one-two position, and I'm not exactly sure where you're going to take it. I will tell you that my number three is Better Man. And I am very surprised that it's Better Man, because that means for me, as you know, I love this song, and I think it is my favorite Taylor Swift song.

But I have to be honest that it depends on what version we're talking about. I like the Little Big Town version better. And that's okay. That's the way it's supposed to be. She did something different to bring it back from the vault. And I enjoy it. It's number three on my list. But if we're talking about the Taylor version,

it's number three. If we're talking about Little Big Town, it might be number one. If we're talking about her doing the Little Big Town version, or Little Big Town doing it? No, Little Big Town doing... I haven't heard her do the Little Big Town version. Well, she can't really, but like she's saying it... Has that happened?

Well, she did the live version, which I think doesn't have the change in the melody that bugs you with the new version of Better Man. Right. But obviously she's not She's not doing a little big time Yeah, bugs me is probably a stretch I just I love this song so much that I think it belongs here But as with another song that we're going to talk about

Apparently in your first two It depends on the version for me. It really does Okay, so that means that you have All Too Well and style in some order Are your top two? I do I'm so stressed out.

Yeah, I do. Okay. And I told you that you belong with me as my third. So I have all too well and better man in some order as I talk to. Yeah. Go ahead. Reveal. Okay.

I did. I did. There are. There's no way you gave in and put all too well second. There's no chance. there is no chance. All 2L's first and Better Man is second on my list. There was consternation.

There were multiple versions. There is some, you know, my trash folder on my computer right now has like 19 different lists that just say like, that some of which have Better Man in the top spot. But I couldn't commit to it. I'm really having a moment with Better Man. I just think it's so good. I like her version.

I like her version better. better than the Little Big Town? I like her version better than the Little Big Town version, yeah. You're smoking the stuff that she is on the cover. No, first of all, I would just, like, no offense to Little Big Town, I would just much rather hear Taylor Swift sing a song. There's also like a 4 a.m. reference. Oh, she wasn't 4 a.m. standing in the mirror saying to myself,

I know you had to do it. Great middle of the night, Taylor song. Yes. the fact that it's like that it's about such a sort of complex thing is really, really beautiful. What, that Calvin Harris is a dick? I don't think that that's really what this song is about. Yes, it is the most beautiful, most complex, most sophisticated song ever written about why Calvin Harris is a dick. It's just a really, really beautiful song that is so, like, tragic in a lot of ways.

but I also don't feel like it doesn't like force you to wallow. It has a strength to it that I think not only is really beautiful and poignant, but makes it really, really listenable. You know, yes. You know when the re-release came out that I was more interested in this song than I was in the 10-minute version of all too well. Yes. No, I do know that. I actually, honestly, I'm surprised.

I thought you were going to pull the trigger. I thought this was going to be your number one. Yeah. I just had to be honest with myself. And the truth for me is that if we were not, I mean, I have style second, which means that I have all too well number one. But I need to be very explicit about this. If it was regular all too well, it probably would be fifth for me. I fell in love with this song because of the 10 minute version. I didn't think I was going to be into it. There's something about it that felt like the regular version for me felt like it got caught up in like an updraft and sort of psychology of the crowd more so than like a real hard analysis of the other stuff on red that was great and the rest of the cattle. I sort of had a resentment towards all too well being the thing because I get it and I get like how it hits live and all that energy. But I just felt like as a song, it had more sort of inside baseball than like really great writing. And man,

I think they took that 10-minute version and made it unbelievable. And so the 10-minute version, no doubt, is number one for me on this list. So that's huge for Midnight. Because that's recent Taylor and Jack doing something that I don't believe is completely pulled from Red Era.

Yeah. I thought it was going to suck. I thought it was going to be self-indulgent and, like, feel, like it was really a lot of work to stretch it out to 10 minutes, and it was going to be repetitive and, and, and all down the line, things that, you know, some music critic would put in, and it crushes. It is enjoyable start to finish. It never gets old. It feels, to your point, fresh, and it just, it's great. And that is the most recent work that they've done together. And I am all in,

and that's why I'm so excited for Midnights. You're right. it's just the right amount of updated too like the soul of the song feels the same but it is a distinct they gave us fuck the patriarchy well and not just in the additional lyrics but just the way it sounds

it's not like it's not a remix but it is a different different sort of color palette and different collection of sounds that we hear underneath those words. But for someone like me who does love the original version and for whom it did always resonate, there's part of it where it's like, can I love this thing if it feels too different?

And it's somehow different enough to feel original but not different enough. It's not overly distinct in a way that like unties it from the all too well that does get to be the beneficiary of the way that her fans have taken it and given it this life of its own, which matters a lot to me. I mean, when you heard regular all too well the first time around, when it gets to the bridge, like, that didn't move you?

Yeah, I mean, it did a little bit, but I just was more moved by other songs on that album. It just didn't, like, destroy me in the way that, even, even, I mean, in hindsight, doing this song was so dangerous and risky. Like there was a lot of downside because it could have deflated the energy of what it was. And I mean, some actress in the bathroom stuff is great.

There's just so much about it and it made me want to die. Like all of it is so good. I don't know how they did it. I think, look, maybe I'm brainwashed, but I think the way, the reason that it worked, beyond really great work by Taylor, by Jack, you know, crafting the sound of the 10-minute version into something that is so good.

It makes me believe that it's real, you know, that all of those feelings were really, really real because there are two lines in the original version of All Too Well that I just think have such a, you know, pack so much punch and carry so much sort of conduction energy for people to experience catharsis when she sings them. And the biggest one is on the bridge that you call me up again just to break me like a promise, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

But I actually think the second one is the middle of the night reference before we're dancing around the kitchen in the refrigerator light because that's so, so, so vivid. That said, those are two moments, right? And the rest of the song, the original version of the song, I think is totally up to, of course you're going to have sort of peak moments throughout a song and other places where you're building to that

and that's a lot of what the rest of the song is is just building you up to this place where the release is so so satisfying I don't think they would have been able to just make up five additional minutes of that right? That has to come from a very very genuine place to be able to stand up to that

and I think that's why it worked. It's not a unique chord progression as we talked about. There's some with or without you in this. Not in music and not in Taylor Swift. And I think my original reaction to the song was rooted in that. It was rooted in that it just didn't feel hugely original. I got the energy. And I got caught in the updraft too because eventually I was like,

oh yeah, this song is great. And I get it. But it did not hold the special place for me that it does now until I heard it on the 10-minute version and the incremental lyrics matter there's moments the glistened as it fell

like all of those moments on that just embellished the song in a way that it made it gave it total new life for me it's a remarkable feat of songwriting and production and again had a ton of risk because you could have massively devalued

what is the number one song across the entire canon I think for fans Okay, well, I really thought we were going to be a little bit further apart on a lot of this stuff, but it makes me happy that that song has resonated in a way where it was just undeniable for both of us to put it anywhere else. I want to know what everybody else thinks. Are we crazy? Well, those might be separate questions. Fair.

But yes, people should send us our lists. We will, I think I will actually publish mine at some point and it would be really fun to see what people think. How would you rank these 13 songs? If you want to toss in some bonus, you know, I really wish we could have included the 3 a.m. from, I bet you think about me. 3 a.m. and I'm still awake. But it was excluded based on a technicality as some of the other middle of the night. we hours references that that didn't fit the prompt. But if you want to throw in those two, go for it.

Because as we can see, I think this is pretty fertile territory for our girl. Yeah. You know, I just have to ask you a question about this because you said that you actually like, look what you made me do. I love look what you made me do. There's a reference to the word karma on that song, isn't there? But not for me, not for me All I think of

Yeah Was there or was there not A long lost album named Karma? Sigh. In my gut, I don't think so. I just like first of all, yes, albums are created in

specific sessions and over a separate timeline it's not as though like maybe there was a different concept for an album that had some work done for it and then ended up feeling like it just wasn't going to fly. Are you talking about a plastic surgery patient or an album?

Had some work done on the side. No. If she had an album ready to go and then ended up scrapping it, I think some of those songs would have popped up in, in other albums. Yeah.

I think here's the problem with the story. It would have been at the center of the raging war over her masters because it would have been before reputation.

Oh, that's such a good point. Which means that Big Machine would have owned it. And that's not the case. How far along in the, how like finished

would it have to be for them? I think anything that went to tape. Right. This is a highly, highly nuanced legal point,

but there's no chance that it was done because it would have changed the value of her catalog and the people who own her catalog would have tried to monetize it by putting it out on their own already. And we would have heard about that and we would have heard about like, too many leaks. There's just leaks and also if they were going to do that, she would be very not happy about it. And I'm sure we would have heard about it. And, you know, one of the greatest weapons that she has at her disposal is the ability to have fans who love her on her side and if she

communicates something like that, she can use that to sort of influence how people think about it and what they might do. I can't believe I'd never thought about that. That is such a great point. Do you think there's any chance there's like a song? No, I think that the entire cackling

after she announced karma as a song was simply because she knew that it was going to set off the tinfoil hat, Nora Princiotti army, into diving down the conspiracy theory holes. Okay, so we're just clowning, is what you're saying?

Yeah, it was a complete clown moment. I am curious, though, like, why did she rush out the track list and stop the videos? Like, we were on a regular cadence of every other day, and then all of a sudden, it was just like, here's the rest of it. Like, yeah.

Why didn't we even get to see, like, number five coming? out of the ping pong. Like, what happened? Do you think the ping pong balls got stolen? Like, there's a backstory here. I mean, I know that the track list ostensibly leaked online,

but everybody was having fun with those videos. Why did it change? It feels not totally analogous, but somewhat like, hey, all of a sudden, the store is turned purple and things are priced $19.89, and all of a sudden, that campaign changes. It is weird.

Now, the best explanation would be that she's building to something. That's going to happen between now and the time this pod comes out. Okay, first of all, the fact that a lead single did not drop between when we recorded this podcast a week ago and the last podcast a week ago and when it came out, which at this point, because we're recording this on another Tuesday afternoon, was yesterday. I'm counting that as a win. Fair enough. Will we be lucky like that two weeks in a row? I'm not sure. But the only thing I can think of is that she was building to something.

We don't know what that is yet, but we'll see. Something got accelerated, I think, because the timing wasn't going to work out. So we'll see. But that was a strange disruption in an otherwise pleasurable video watching experience. Do you still think something's coming? We're getting something before the album? Yeah, I do. I think that the plan could not have been to suddenly put everything,

to go five or six songs and then put everything else out all at once. Like there had to have been, she was counting down. And suddenly it was like, no, we're going to accelerate this and put it out. And I don't know if that is a release that's coming that we didn't know about that she was trying to get out in front of something about radio or the DSPs, meaning Spotify and Apple Music, needing something, you know, the general climate overall of what's happening,

but something got in the way of the methodical release of these things. And to your point, it can only make some sense. Yeah, but like, who cares? Keep putting out the videos. They were getting great engagement, building up or TikTok following.

Well, they're still out there, right? People are still, I don't know if that's made people watch them less that they're all available at the same time. But it's not like, I don't know, doing that on TikTok, it definitely seems like I don't know that why anyone would plan it that way. I also don't know that that's as much of a...

I don't know that you lose quite as much in terms of how much people are going to engage with them or not if you're just rolling stuff out on TikTok that way. But I guess we'll find out because it would make sense to do if... By the time this is out, we look like clowns in rainbow wigs and red noses. So it's fine. But I just... It's my favorite outfit for a fall. I'm fine being on the record right now stating that this is...

this was a change and a shift, and it happened because something else is going to come here. We will find out. All right, Nathan, we're really sharing a brain today. Thank you so much for revealing that you have such great taste that, you know, so closely mirrors mine. If that's the outcome of this podcast, I'm very happy. All right, good. And we look forward to seeing everybody else's list. Please share them with us. It's a fun thing to do with what has been a very fruitful concept for Taylor Swift in the past. And I suppose we can add to the list once we have 13 more songs plus bonus tracks. Is that the next time we're going to talk to each other? I don't know. Not if your prediction is true. And she lays down something new on us in the next several days.

Can't wait. Me neither. This has been every single album, Taylor Swift. I'm Nora Pinciotti. He's Nathan Hubbard. We will be back sometime soon, depending on what Taylor Swift does, but you will hear from us no later than after the release of Midnights. Thank you, as always, to Kai McMullen for production on this episode and to you for listening.