Every Single Album - '25' | Every Single Album: Adele

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

Hello from the other side...it's time to talk about Adele's third album '25.' Nora and Nathan talk about the massive hit that was "Hello" (1:00), one of their favorite songs on this album, "When We Were Young," (22:29), how Adele's insistence on perfection affected the creation of this album (46:29), and her infamous appearance on Carpool Karaoke during this time period (58:42). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

60 songs that explain the 90s are back and in their final stretch. The Ringer's music critic Rob Harvilla curates and explores 60 iconic songs from the 90s that define the decade. Rob is joined by a variety of guests to break it all down as they turn back the clock. Check out 60 songs that explain the 90s exclusively on Spotify. Hello and welcome to every single album, Adele. And I suppose I should be saying hello from the other side because I'm Norpinsiatty. he's Nathan Hubbard, and we are here today to talk about 25, Adel's third album, which was kicked off with one of her biggest hits of all time. Hello. So in that spirit, I say to you, hello, Nathan. Hello, it's me. Hello. Hello. Hello. Okay. Okay, hold on. We got to clear some business right off the top. Nathan was in London last

week. I was. And spent a lot of time texting me about how much inspiration for his critically acclaimed British accent he was picking up. How did it go, Nathan? I really got a lot of positive compliments. People who really thought I was a native and a local, I'll tell you this, it's impossible to understand the really thick Tottenham, London, North London accent through a mask. In a restaurant. So I really, I might as well have been in Serbia. But I'm back having to, I mean,

I did enough work on the ground. They're definitely playing Adele 30 there. So she's still the, if she's not the queen mom, she's pretty close. Yeah, where did you, you heard 30 playing at a winter fair of some kind? I ran around

Hyde Park and there's some, a bunch of circus tents and Ferris wheels and shit in the middle. I don't know what's going on. Somebody close to you, who's your eyes on the ground in London, said, that's a winter fair, which, fine, it's a winter fair. It was raining and they were playing Adele 30. So fantastic. It sounds like they're supporting their own. My friend Katie knew about the winter fair. Also, big Adele fan. Shout out to Katie Hub. But, okay, so you're hearing 30 on the ground near Adele's hometown.

I'm hearing hold on in Amazon commercials. She's everywhere. And so we're seeing kind of the intersection of just the music and how much people love Adele and some of the business stuff, right? And just how big of an artist she is and what happens when an artist of that size is trying to serve a fan base, serve her own creative aims and just put some stuff out and get the most out of it, which is really relevant to the conversation that we're going to have about 20. because we went from 19 to 21, and 21 was still, even though it became this massive, massive album, they didn't really know it was going to do that. No. 25 is a different story because it comes on the heels of 21, and they kind of know the beast that they have to harness, right? That Adele and the producers that she works with and her management.

They just have an enormous amount of pent-up demand for this human. being, in part because a bunch of the tour was canceled. And so everyone got so excited about this album and then didn't actually get to see here. And it almost raised the temperature in the room of anticipation about what was coming next because people wanted more. And they got it with 25. They got it. But Adele and her team were pretty careful about how they got it. So can you talk to me a little bit about the rollout of this album? Well, the thing that will always strike me about 2015 when this came out

is this album was sort of heralded as saving the music business because we're in this moment of heavy transition from physical CD sales, album sales, to digital streaming. And for a lot of artists, they are suspicious, and skeptical that the rise of Apple Music, rise of Spotify,

is going to compensate artists in the same way. And the truth is, it's going to change the game, because instead of paying $16 for a CD, you're going to pay $16 a month or less than $16 a month for subscription to every single piece of music that ever exists.

And so the economics of what it means to be an artist are changing. And Adele happens to be sitting in a demographic, as she's talked about ad nauseum coming out of the 30 campaign, where she knows she holds not only a broad group of fans, but generally speaking, an older group of fans. And they are more inclined to buy physical goods and coming into this album campaign, they know they are sitting in this moment and time in 2015

with the largest artists in the world. And so the campaign that they build around 25 is a deliberate rollout with plenty of Easter eggs from social posts and the like that say it's coming. But for me, the story of this album is they are going for records. They are going to assert her as the largest artist in the world. And the only way to do that is to have the largest album in the world.

And a big component of her business here was intentionally withholding it from these streaming services so that any human being who wanted to hear this, music outside of the singles on the radio, had to go to retail to buy it. And boy, did they ever, Nora. Right. So let's be really granular here.

You could listen to the singles. So you could listen to Hello on Spotify or Apple Music. You could listen to when we were young. You could listen to Send My Love to Your New Lover. You could listen to water under the bridge throughout the rollout as they were released. But you could not go listen to the album from top to bottom. You could not hear the other songs. You could not hear the whole product unless you went to Target,

went to your local record store, and bought the CD. And I think for a lot of artists, that could have been a problem because of the way that their fan base was consuming music at the time. We still weren't moved over to hundreds of millions of people streaming, even though we're only talking about six years ago at this point. But for Adele, this fan base was happy to go to a retail store and buy physical product. And they did. This is the fastest selling album in the first week of all time. She sells over three million copies in the first week. And that does not put it ahead of 21 in terms of all time selling albums. But it does make it the fastest selling album of the 21st century. It makes it the highest selling album of 2015. And the first album ever to sell three million copies in its first week to do. juxtapose that against what we just saw with 30, she sold only is a really silly word in this

context, because it's still a massive amount, but she sold only a little over 800,000 copies and equivalence in the first week. So that's the difference that six years has made in terms of how consumer buying patterns happen. And they were at, this is really the last huge physical moment. I mean, we know reputation in 2017 sold a lot of albums, but this is the last moment of somebody at their absolute peak who still has the overwhelming majority of their fan base willing to go out and buy a physical product. And they took advantage of it,

and they set records that from here going forward will not be broken. Wow. Okay. Well, can't have a huge record without huge songs. We've said it before, but that is the story of some of these albums for Adele. So we will get to our category. and there's really only one song that I think is relevant for the biggest hit here. And it is, hello. It is the song that we referenced to kick off this episode. The song that ruined, it ruined the word, didn't it?

For her, she can't say it anymore. She has to say hi or hey to people. But even the awkwardness at the top of this show, like, there's no way around that word and there's no way to really say it fully and with gusto and not think about it. this song. Not think about Adele wailing, hello from the other side. In the windstorm. What is up with the windstorms?

She loves the windstorms, doesn't she? She loves to... Taylor loves the rain. Adele loves the wind. I mean, this video, the Easy on Me video, she's just constantly in front of giant fans and all of the outtakes have her getting, you know, smashed in the nose by various flying objects,

but she just keeps coming back for more. I mean, I have a dirty little secret about this song, which is I respect it and it has a place in sort of the in the pantheon of big songs. And Nora, I don't love this song. Oh. And it may be because it just was played on repeat as a global number one over and over and over again. But I'll tell you what my problem is. it's the chorus. It's the chorus.

I don't love the chorus. I love the bigness of the hello from the other side. But then I can't get over this. It's 2015. And she's got a lyric in this song that says, but when I call you never seem to be home. Everybody has a cell phone. Nobody's using landlines in 2015.

What is happening here? Oh my gosh. She's appealing to an older fan base. on. They buy albums. They buy physical albums and they have landline. I was calling my grandparents in 2015 on their cell phones. Landlines were not a thing. The telly, not a thing. The home telly, not a thing. Oh, no. Oh, no. We're 10 minutes in and he's breaking it out. Do you think it's possible that it's not that she's calling a home phone, but she's calling and he's never at home. He is always out doing something and has moved on without her and they're so separate.

I mean, that's the glass half full explanation. But I, there's an inconsistency in the lyric that has always driven me crazy. But we can't deny the bigness of this. It feels, I mean, maybe a little bit like the sort of bookend to someone like you. It's sort of, you know, we got, we ended the last album with someone like you that sort of piano ballad with the bigness of her voice, and then we start the new one with hello. Do you love this song? Is it appointment listening for you?

So I'm giving you the glass half-full version on the lyric because it is appointment listening for me. Right. It is not my favorite song on the album. Spoiler alert. But I do think that it is a great song. Do you like her drumming? She's so great on the drums.

Adele's on the drums. We haven't heard her playing as an instrumentalist. the early days of 19 on her guitar and on the bass on those first couple songs. It's fun to hear her as a drummer. Yeah. So what I love about this song is one of the things that I've grown to appreciate about Adele

as we've gone through her albums is how much she cares about the story, how much she cares about taking her listener on a journey and having it mean something and having it setting it up with a narrative function. That's a hard task, right? you already have to put out, you know, come up with interesting music, write good songs, produce them effectively, and then ascribe some sort of meaningful order and roll out to them.

And that's a lot to ask, right? And I think sometimes it doesn't work so well. Like, for instance, we now know how she tried to do that with strangers by nature on 30. That doesn't work for me. I don't like the song, even though I can tell what its intended function is to just kind of set things up and kind of set. a stage and set a scene. We've seen Taylor Swift do this a bunch of times, right? Like, welcome to New York, I think is a snoozer.

But I get the purpose. Yeah. This is like the best example of all time of having a song that's both like big. It manages to be a ballad that also kind of has a rocking element to it. And it tells you exactly where she's going to go on the album, but it does a lot more than that. It's not just serving the purpose of setting the stage. It can stand on its own, but it also serves a greater function introducing the entire album. I will tell you the one little musical thing that bothers me on this song. It's not the lyric. But it's when there's something

that strikes me as very cheesy when the background vocals are just saying highs, highs, highs, lows, lows, lows, lows underneath her. Like that really, it all. It all, always sticks in my brain and I just wish that they were, I wish those were just sort of sounds. There is an awkwardness to some of the lyrical and word choices used on this song. There's no doubt about it. I mean, hello is actually not a word that many people at this point in time use with one another. There's a formality to it. She also changes the second vowel or the first vowel in that word from like, it's an A to an E. There's even some maybe she's saying, hello. Sometimes it's crazy. But I agree there is a little bit of awkwardness, generally speaking here. And maybe that's

part of the intent of the song, right? Because there's a distance between the subject matters and the song. My favorite part of this is this little breath that we get at the very end. I think it's an inhale right as the last note sort of strikes. We hear her inhale. But you could convince me that it's a breath out if you think so. I just love that sort of dynamic listening to her sort of finish this huge sort of exhaling song with what sounds like she's taking a breath, even though we never hear another word. I love it as an inhale, though, because again, it is a stage setter, and I think we don't, it's, I had never really thought about it in that way before really sinking my teeth into this, not just as a collection of songs, but as an album that

tells a story. And it's hard to do that with hello because as it stands on its own, it's just so huge. But if you think about it as that stage setter, the idea that at the very end of it, after doing all of that, she takes a breath in and gets ready for the next thing, that's really cool. Well, it's not unlike what she does on 30, where she says, okay, I'm ready, right? And so her track ones are analogous to Taylor's track fives, except that I think Adele sort of start to finish really cares about what that intro song says. It is always that opening scene of an album that is purposeful. And as much as I say, like, lyrically, I get a little weirded out by this song. The structure of the song is so much more mature and developed and elegant than even some of the things that we heard on 21.

And that sets the stage, I think, for an entire track list here that is as sophisticated from a songwriting perspective and sonically as anything we've heard her do. So one of the things that I think is going to come up a lot as we talk about this is the fact that this album was difficult to write. Yeah. There was a lot of, you know, goes to one session, throws out a bunch of songs, takes a couple months off, comes back, doesn't feel inspired, doesn't like anything. She did hello with Greg Kirsten and they got in the studio together.

and wrote half the song. Yeah. And then they didn't come back to it for six months. He thought she might never finish it. He thought she might never come back to it. And he said, I just had to be very patient. And she, first of all, she was a young mother, so she had a lot going on in her own life.

But she also felt really uncertain about what the right direction to go in was what she could write about that was going to be true to, what was a broad global audience, but also still true to her and true to the feelings that she had, which were no longer so exclusively those of heartbreak, right? Like, hello from the other side. She'd come out of that to a degree.

Yeah. And she didn't want to make another heartbreak album. Yeah. And I think it gave her a lot of angst about where to go with this. Yeah, to be more acute, I mean, Nora, she had writer's block. She had a mad bit of writers block.

and it took her a long time to get through that. I mean, the first set of songs that she wrote were all sort of rooted in motherhood and she scrapped it because she thought, oh, that's boring, no one's going to like it. We know that Rick Rubin came out and heard the first set of songs and said, this sounds like you're singing a bunch of songs

that could be on somebody else's album, not your own. Now, we know there's this sort of oil and water between Rubin and Adele in terms of the way that they perceive her music. But she's drowning in what is a new, feeling for her, which is losing your identity to motherhood. That's not a new feeling for mothers, because they know what that's like. It's a very common occurrence where you feel like you've lost a part of yourself and there's their postpartum depression issues. But then just generally speaking,

you're at a moment in life where, who am I? What is my own identity? And a lot of this album comes out of those feelings, even if they're buried a bit on these songs that we ultimately get delivered on 25. It was very much that thread of consistency through the course of her writing, Madonna's Ray a Light album, which doesn't really sonically bear anything similar to 25. Certainly, thematically, that was the album that Madonna wrote coming out of motherhood. And Adele sort of tries to follow suit here. Well, and it was a huge inspiration to her in getting over that writer's block because it was referenced to her as an example of, you can get back out there, and still be yourself,

still be interesting to people, still do the work you love after you have begun to define yourself in this incredibly meaningful way as the mother of a child. But you're still Adele and you can still have a job and you can still be creative and artistic and find those sources of inspiration.

And I think we can talk about where you can see and hear some of the back and forth just struggling to create this thing over the course of the album. I mean, one of the ways is just there's a lot of people contributing work here. But it is fascinating to me

that with Hello, the biggest hit, the song I think that people remember this album by in one of her biggest songs. And I think among her best, I don't think her best, but I think among her best, was this text that they really, really struggled with

and was sort of created piecemeal because I think a lot of the time we've heard these stories with Adele where she starts doing something and then it's not right and she just says, you know what, scrap it, let's go back to the demo version. Right.

Like, let's go back to the raw cut where I had a moment of inspiration and I had the energy and the passion and we just, and it was real and we got it all in one take. And it's fascinating to me that she can get it. You know, I'm not talking literally

about how many takes she did on the vocal once they'd written the song. Yeah. but that they could do this in such a different way, I actually think is really, really cool just because it's not always, you know, sometimes you have to be a professional, right? It doesn't always come easily.

And the fact that she could create something that had such a great result when it wasn't coming easily, I think is very cool. Yeah. She worked through it and got there. You said that this was not, hello, was not your favorite song, though. What was your favorite song on this album?

My favorite song on this album is when we were young. Yes! It just really hits me in the feels. It's so nostalgic. I love the twinkly piano. She sounds incredible. Yes. Are you okay?

Can we continue? Well, you brought the accent back. So I take it you're excited. I don't know. It's just natural for me now. I didn't even notice. Did I? Wow.

Who knew? But what is it about when we were young? because I feel the same way about this song. It just grabbed me the first time I heard it. There was a version on YouTube of her doing it live, which I actually like better than the album itself, and that is saying something. Because this is one of the few Adele songs for me

that is appointment listening. Like this is like the police's every breath you take. This is like Power by Kanye West, like 99 problems by Jay-Z. I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one. Hit me. A few Taylor songs. Like when that song comes on, I listen to it.

My ear never burns down from listening to when we were young. And I can't totally put my finger on what it is. There is this incredible moment coming out of the bridge where she just nails this E-flat. The backup singers, you know, all sort of come in underneath her. this sort of wave of rising singing around when we are young. Maybe it's because, like, I resonated with the thematic part of the song, but why do we like this one? There are a lot of good songs on this album. This one I absolutely adore. I think the melody is just really, really, really, there's

something really, really warm about it. Sometimes we've talked about this a couple times with other songs where her voice is so incredible that it can make a song that might actually have a couple blah elements to it shine. Yeah. And sometimes, you said this more than I have, but there have been a couple spots where you felt like, ah, the melody on the chorus here doesn't totally grab me. I really think that this is just a beautiful sounding song. It is. It is. And then Adele sings it. Yeah. Like, it's pretty simple. I mean,

there's not a lot of complexity here. It's just really beautiful. You know, it is, look, it comes early on the album and it is warm and loving, but also, also, also, sad because there's a nostalgia that sort of implies loss. Yeah. Right? Like when we were young, we're not young anymore. Yeah.

And that I'm so mad. I'm getting old. Like we get that rasp at the end where she just leans into that word mad. And you believe her. You really believe her. And then the twinkly little piano bits towards the end, I just, they really, really make me feel all warm and fuzzy in all the places.

It was just. And she did this like a movie. My God, this reminds me. And she did this with Tobias Jesso Jr., who's the same guy who she wrote To Be Loved with, which is also this warm, twinkly, huge vocal piano ballad, where now, you know,

a few albums ago, we were sort of saying, how many of these piano ballads can we actually take? And she just sort of keeps delivering ones that on the surface seem to all be sort of generically the same, but they have their own character. Again, I think she's meant to be alone with a piano. We got someone like you. We got chasing pavements, but really the Dylan song make you feel my love. We get hello. You know, can we really keep going? This guy knows how to do it. He just knows how to bring out the best in her when she's singing to a piano. Well, and that seemed like it was a big

question on this album. Stop it. I knew as soon as I wrote. I was a little bit. I knew as soon as I brought up that I loved the piano part you were going to go there. Yeah. Aye, aye. But it's an interesting question on this album because we've talked a lot about that push pull between how many piano ballads can she do. It does seem like this was the album where they kind of embrace that a little bit because everything on, not everything, but most songs on this album are either just sort of a straight

piano ballad or she is venturing more heavily into mainstream, like, what was contemporary pop music in 2015 than she had really at all. And I think it's time for us to talk about the collaborators because there are a lot of them, but you hear it, you know, you can just go through the songs. So hello is a ballad, although I think one of the reasons it's so effective is because it does still have kind of that like rocking mf go boom quality to it but then send my love

to your new lover is pop I miss you as pop when we were young back to the ballads Remedies ballad When the pain counts you deep When the night keeps you from sleeping

Water under the is more poppy. It's got, it's more produced, although it kind of, she can do that with like just a piano if she's doing it live.

River Lee is poppy. And then we get the ballad, ballad, ballad on steroids, love in the dark, million years ago, all I ask. And then sweetest devotion ends this album

and is like a pop country waltz sort of, question mark. Question mark. Well, I mean, Epworth, is the one she wrote this with.

She did Rolling in the Deep with him. That was a little bit. That had some pop country flavor to it. So they maybe pulled those forward. Look, sweetest devotion, to be clear, that is an Avril Levine song. So if you want to call it pop country, you can. This song is heavy duty.

I'm with you vibes. Like the yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this is Avril Levine. I see you, Epworth, pulling from Avril Levine. don't you leave her out? Well, Paul Epworth said to Rolling Stone, this album feels like it fits in maybe more with the cultural dialogue instead of being anachronistic to it.

It's almost like she's trying to beat everyone else at their own game. Now, I don't know if Paul Upworth in 2015 was defining Avrilavine as the cultural dialogue, but if he was, I support him in that. Yeah. I want to know who you think her most important collaborator is because I think I have one that you're not going to expect. Okay.

Well, let's talk about the contenders. So, because again, the thing to take away here, I mean, we'll talk about the Grammys in a bit. When she got up on stage there, there's like 30 people standing behind her. Yeah. There are just so many people involved in making this album. It's like a daf punk record. Yeah. So she does, hello, water under the bridge and million years ago with Greg Kirsten.

And he's the one who helps her break the writer's block. So you really, I mean, the trophy's hovering around his hands for sure. Right. Send my love to your new lover with Max Martin. Then with Epworth, she does, I Miss You and Sweetest Devotion. Yeah. Then Jesso when we were young. Does Remedy with Ryan Tetter, who she worked with.

Yeah, although she did a lot of stuff with him that didn't ultimately make the album. That didn't make it. She did a lot of the early work for this album, or that was supposed to be in service of this album with Teter, didn't like a lot of lot of it, just scrapped a lot of it, but this was the early song that she felt like should stay. Yeah. Then Danger Mouse does Riverlee. Then all I ask is with Bruno Mars and his guys. The most Bruno of all Bruno songs.

Key change and all the shit, dude. It's got it. That song is, we'll talk about it later, but just like Bruno Mars and Adele staring each other in the face and being like, I'm Bruno Mars, I'm Adele. like how extra can we make this love lorn ballad? Yeah. And then Sam Dixon, love in the dark. Okay. So a lot of people who I am choosing, you hinted at it.

I think it's Greg Kirsten because he got her out of the writer's block. She came to him after doing the sessions with Teter where a lot of the stuff just wasn't working. They had remedy, but it was pretty arduous. and he seemed like the guy that that kind of got it out of her. He was also the person standing right next to her when she won the Grammy. So everybody else came on stage after,

but he was kind of the guy that was just like right next to her. So I think it goes to him. I'm curious who your pick is, though. Okay. So what you just articulated going song by song, okay, is the key. because indirectly her most important collaborator

is none other than Taylor Swift because because this album is her red she is going through and experimenting with a bunch of different songwriters a bunch of different producers just like Taylor was she is she writes

with Ryan Tetter it sort of works she gets a song doesn't get the whole catalog doesn't make the album but she goes to lunch with him. She hears the dubstep on I knew you were trouble and says, who the hell is working with Taylor Swift to make her sound like that. Teder introduces her to Max Martin, who comes in and helps her build out the song that we now know on this album. And she is, this is her red in so many ways. And I say that sort of tongue in cheek, but she is experimenting and pushing herself here.

That said, I think we have to be realistic that we're now in the, is she taking enough risks phase? Right. We're now on an album that sonically is different. The songs are more sophisticated. The structure is more mature. They're good songs through and through on this album. Newsflash, I actually like this album better than I like 21, even though I like a lot of songs on 21. Just sort of front to back, it feels like it's more of a heavyweight to me. But there's a lot of people saying she's not taking risk.

She's really not pushing herself. And you know what? Nora, she's not, is she? There isn't anything on here that's crazy. And that's why it's so accessible and non-controversial, isn't it? Yeah. So the only, I love that collaborator selection. the only thing that I would push you on there is that the reason that we think of Red in that way is because she does all the work of building the Taylor, does all the work of building the bridge from where she'd been to where she was going because she's going somewhere else. I'm not sure that Adele is going somewhere else. She's not. She's not. She's not. I mean, and I, and that to me is is the only sort of weakness in that. But I love, I mean, she was, I love to imagine.

her sitting with Tettor and just saying, oh, who's Max Martin? And Ryan Tudder being like, uh, try Googling. Yeah, exactly. But on the Tettor piece, you know, the song that they wrote together, Remedy, I really enjoy the song,

but it does have a lot of vibe, like turning tables from the last album, which they wrote together. And it brought up for me that Teter story. Teter wrote Halo for Beyonce. It was maybe going to go to Leona Lewis, but she was busy. But Tettor sort of, I think, denies that.

But Kelly Clarkson at the same time recorded a song with Ryan Teter called Already Gone. And by I think any somewhat objective measure, Teter would disagree, and he is the expert on this. But Kelly Clarkson certainly felt like it was a remake of Halo. And had a lot of issues about that. She freaked out, tried to keep it off the album, thought it sounded too much alike. So listen, it happens in music where you repurpose, speaking of

Red, where we heard on Red, Taylor repurpose a couple of songs. State of Grace and Holy Ground are songs that. Okay, I still disagree with you on that. I know you do. I'll let it stand for the purposes of this argument. There's also others, there are also others on the deluxe edition that are sort of reworks of what was on Red. And that's, that's fine. I just think it's something that songwriters do. It feels a little bit on this that they set down and maybe they were trying to writer rocker. They ended with this. And it's got some Turning Table Vives. And that's fine. There are roots of older songs in every new song. So that's nothing new and different. But it does speak to the relationship that she had with all these individual writers. As you said, I think she was

frustrated. I think she wasn't fully getting what she wanted out of each of these relationships. And so instead of sticking with one, she really fanned out and diversified her portfolio of writers and producers to try to pull something together. It does. not feel to me, though, like this album is schizophrenic sonically or tempo-wise. Does it feel like a collection of individual songs more so than an album to you? No, it feels like an album to me, but again, it's instructive to compare to Red, right? Because that was taken as such a negative for Red. And it was misunderstood, though. Well, right. I am of the opinion that it actually helps for me. I think it tells an interesting story by going back and forth so sharply.

But we agreed that it was probably the reason that she didn't win a Grammy for it. And so clearly it was something that people had at least mixed feelings toward. I don't find 25 schizophrenic in that way at all. But I do think that that is in part because there aren't major risks on this album. Yeah, that's right. The biggest departure from what what she'd done in the past was putting herself more in conversation with her peers, right, in contemporary pop music at that point. But again, using a little bit, you know, using sort of bigger, boomier drum fills, using more synths on some of the poppier songs, it's hard to call that a massive risk.

Because those are the basic tools that everybody is working with. And it had actually been the thing that made her sort of stand out, the reason she was doing things differently beforehand was because she wasn't working with those. Sure. Then when you go back to the ballads, she's just using, you know, the playbook that made Adele. Adele. I don't think there's anything wrong with either of those things. But I think when you put them all together,

you get a consistent album, but you also don't get an album that's really doing much outside the boundaries of what she had already been really successful doing and what basically everyone was successful doing. Well, and I think ultimately, as we get into the Grammy conversation later. That is the subject of much debate, and it's an important moment for not just music overall, but for the Grammys in particular, as we'll discuss. But we compared, I compared this a little bit to Red and to Taylor Swift. You can buy it. You can throw it out. But we introduced this Easter egg category in the Taylor Swift, every single album series.

Finally, here, for me, we have a genuine Easter egg. A genuine Easter egg. and for me, you know, she spoke about this as her makeup album, but now we know a lot better. She was hiding a lot underneath the surface. There is one line in Love in the Dark that she had hinted at on this Oprah special on 30. She said she put it out there as sort of a signal, almost like a hostage video, her giving a little sign, which was, I want to live and not just survive.

I guess she spoke about that as being the one little peek into what was going on in her life. like a smoke signal or something. But I mean, this whole song is intense, Nora. It's about leaving a relationship from start to finish. This is a song about Simon. It is a hat tip that she is leaving this relationship. It's hard to hear this song in real time or in retrospect and have thought that everything was going okay in her personal life.

Yeah, and especially it has the oceans apart lyric where you can, that is a specific detail, right? When you're talking about someone who, you know, part of her life is in the UK, part of it is here. She talks a lot about rivers and oceans all over this album. So maybe she could have hidden that from us. But yes, you can see it. Yeah, there's more literalism than we normally get from her.

That is actually not what I thought you were going to choose, but that's a really good one. That's a really good one. I haven't impressed, Nathan. It's only because I've done shitty ones, the last couple categories. No, you're... Don't say that about yourself.

I don't think when you're down on yourself. You're spectacular and you've a great British accent. All right. But I have a different Easter egg, which was that she did actually Easter egg the rollout of this album too. Tell me about that. On the eve of her 26th birthday in May of 2014,

yes. She posts on Twitter, Bye Bye 25. See you again later in the year. which people picked up on as a reference to the fact that she was going to have an album called 25 and it was going to come out later in the year, which, you know, I think it's...

I think it was intentional, or she just, she gets drunk and she can't stop running her mouth about her next album. No, that's completely purposeful. That's what she did at the birthday party or whatever. Yeah, but see you again later in the year. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. That's pretty specific.

That's some specific Easter egging. But it was also, it created quite the frenzy, in part because she had, she'd gone away again. You know, she'd been gone, right? Yeah. And that took on a different life because she was so, so famous after 21. And it was a different experience of people clamoring for her to put out more work coming off of that album than it had been off of 19. So the fact that she did that stirs up all the attention of,

okay, why hasn't she been out and about, why aren't we seeing her in magazines? Why doesn't she do interviews? Why doesn't she do commercials? Why doesn't she live a public life as a celebrity and sort of keep us posted on how things are going on? What we've heard from her about that is that in part it just had to do with her going and being a mom, right?

She needed time to do that, obviously. The other thing that she, she talked a little bit about in interviews was the fear that she wouldn't be able to handle fame. And she said, she gave, she was talking to Rolling Stone and she said, people think I hate being famous and I don't. I'm really frightened of it. I think it's really toxic. And I think it's really easy to be dragged into it. Watching Amy Winehouse deteriorate is one of the reasons I'm a bit frightened. We were all very entertained by her being a mess. I was fucking sad about it, but if someone showed me a picture of her looking bad, I'd look at it.

If we hadn't looked, then they'd have stopped taking her picture. That level of attention is really frightening, especially if you don't live around all that showbiz stuff. And I think that's really fascinating in terms of the rollout of 25 of this album, but also to compare and contrast to 30. Yeah, the observatory concert. Well, right, because in some ways she did the same thing, right? Like, she went and lived her life for a while, and then she made music, and then she came back. Got a bad tattoo. Yeah. On the flip side. So right of passage. We name the albums after our age. We get a shitty tattoo. And we go. All right. Well, in between tattoos, she'd moved L.A. and she has a lot of famous friends. And a lot of them came to her concert, right? Like, I don't know that she has fully fully. Did you see the Seth Rogen stuff this week where he was like, I didn't even know what I was going to.

I was just fucking high. He was like, I was high as a kite and had no idea why I was seated in front of Drake. Thought I was on a flying saucer that Adele was piloting. So I was playing the role of just an undistracted, normal, cool guy trying to enjoy an Adele concert. That's so good. Yeah, that was really funny.

I still don't understand how they ordered the celebrities there. Maybe it was just random. I don't know. I mean, it was not random. There's no way. Because they buried Ellen. Like, they did that on purpose. They're like, yeah, Ellen's not ready for the front row yet.

We got to keep her back there. Not ready for prime time. Well, regardless, there is more of a push pull in terms of her embrace of fame than there used to be, which I think is interesting in the context of what she said about it going into this. It's certainly not as if she's being seen all over town all the time, her going to the basketball game, I think, was a pretty big deal just because, again, that was the type of thing that she didn't do a lot of. Well, and in the coat.

Well, right. I mean, she was like sweeping the floors with the coat. Well, and just wearing something that was very sort of attention grabby and very unapologetically, like, yep, I'm Adele and I'm out here, and I'm wearing this kind of obnoxious Louis Vuitton coat. I'm on the floor of crypto.com arena where I now own the record for most consecutive sellouts that broke Taylor Swift's record. And I'm going to walk around the place like I fucking own it because I do.

Because I kind of do. Well, it's something to watch going forward for sure. Okay. Peekadell, unless you have anything more to say on the Easter egging. No. I was just going to ask you, was that sort of Easterer? Was that Piccadale? If not, what was?

I think Piccadale for this era has to be the Grammys. where she wins for album of the year takes the stage crying it takes forever to get all 682 people who worked on this record up on stage with her she thanks them says it it took a village to make the album but then she says that

my artist of my life is Beyonce you are the artist of my life stop stop this is an iconic speech and you will not ruin it with your British accent You are a light. Stop. You're not even getting it right. You need to go back across the pond.

You need to do a little bit more work. Word for word, I just nailed it. No, you didn't. Run the tape, producer, Kaya. You didn't get the words right. My artist of my life is Beyonce in this album for me. The lemonade album was just so monumental. Beyonce, it was so monumental and so well thought out.

and so beautiful and soul-bearing, and we all got to see another side to you that you don't always let us see, and we appreciate that, and all us artists here, we fucking adore you. You are our light. It's another example of her really prioritizing

the messaging and the storytelling and the concepts behind work, because that's what she was really holding up as what Beyonce had accomplished, as well as, you know, she said the way that you make me feel, the way that you make my black friends feel and really centered that in her speech.

And then afterwards, backstage, she's getting interviewed. And she just goes, what the fuck does Beyonce have to do to win album of the year? Yeah. My view is kind of what the fuck does she have to do to win album for year?

That's also how I feel. And there was something very, you know, cameras go to Beyonce during those moments. And she was crying. Like, she had a tear rolling down her cheek.

And there was something. She gave her and I love you. Yeah. Yeah. There's something very honest and sincere about the way that all went down. And it's in an environment where there's a lot of things that are contrived, right? And a lot of people who are sort of out to look a certain way when they're in the spotlight. Yeah. And that felt like a moment of genuine appreciation between two people where Adele identified pretty correctly the torture. history of Beyonce at the Grammys

seemed like very aware of it. You know, it's interesting as an artist who had not up to that point and still sparingly has incorporated contemporary pop music into her own work. It's interesting to see the ways in which she's

sort of aware of the discourse. And that seemed like something, the fact that Beyonce has not been honored by the Grammys in the way that she should be. Yeah. She's been honored with lots of trophies, but not the big ones. but not the big one. And you're exactly right.

I mean, look, I had that part of her speech as what is this British thing? Because it's just wonderfully self-deprecatingly British. Like, who gets up and gets a trophy? He's like, oh, I'm not good enough. You're so much better. But like, better. But I, look, for me, everything she says here is correct, as you said, but it really starts the downfall of the Grammys.

I mean, here we are recording this week. Drake yesterday withdrew his nominations for the Grammys. Because it's not just about Beyonce. It's about the Grammy's treatment of hip-hop and R&B and rap through the years. And it comes back to Kendrick losing to Taylor. It comes back to, you know, a whole lot of albums that have endured. We talked about Adele not taking risks. You know who was taking risks?

Beyonce was taking risks. She'd gone on stage, you know, at the Super Bowl. And in, you know, for many, many people, a very sort of shockingly incredible performance. Lots of people who were uncomfortable with the performance, you know, sort of voiced their reaction. But this was a meaningful, political, social album that, you know, Adels was almost the opposite to. And it was wonderful to see in real time the respect that she had for the state. that Beyonce had made, but it really portends a moment where we are today where the Grammys are in trouble. And it started before this. It started long before this. But this was the moment

where Adele said it best, what the fuck does Beyonce have to do to win album of the year? The fact that she doesn't have this trophy is insane. And yes, the way that Kanye voiced it at the VMAs was ridiculous. But she has been an artist who has pushed the limits, the envelope of her art in a way that Adele, and this is not a knock on Adele, she's wonderfully self-conscious about this and self-aware about this. Adel didn't. That's why so many people find her and her music accessible. And so this was a really important moment, I think, in Grammy history, because it looking forward six years to where we are now, the six years that follow this,

you're going to have a slate of artists who've become increasingly and increasingly detached from the Grammys as this canonical source of what is good. And I think you're going to see this year with Drake pulling out, he didn't have album of the year, but he had some important categories.

You're going to see the Grammys going forward mean less than they have before. There's going to be a generation of fans that start to look for some different way to recognize great art and it started in this moment. Just sort of, you know,

it's unfortunate because I remember the ceremony last year being so much fun and being sort of one of the examples of a pandemic awards show actually doing it right

and just feeling fun and celebratory. But again, the history at this point, it's pretty substantial and it's pretty long. I wish they, maybe they could have offered

Drake. They could have offered him a better seat than Seth Rogan. Well, yeah, I'm not sure that he, that was also an interesting choice. Like, Seth Rogan gets ahead of Drake? What are we doing here? What happened? That's like an assistant. I think an assistant got baked with Seth Rogan and was like, fuck it, let's change the seats. For me, I have a confession on this Piccadale moment because I was there at the Grammys. And I saw the speech. Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have our first Nathan suddenly dropping a wild story moment. All right, continue. But for me, the most sort of Pekidale moment

also came from that night, but it came during the fast love tribute to George Michael, where she stopped. Fast love, fast love in here. I know it's live TV. I'm sorry. I can't do it again like last year.

I'm sorry for swearing, and I'm sorry for swearing. starting again. Can we please start it again? I'm sorry. I can't miss this up for him. I'm sorry. I can't. And, and, and, and, and, and she stopped because she'd had technical difficulties the year before, you know, she, she'd had the, um, all I ask, I think, she'd flubbed it because she'd had, I don't know, somebody dropped a mic on the piano or something. I don't know what exactly happened, but this is a woman. Yeah, I think it was like something in, fell inside the piano and it was sounding fuzzy.

Yeah, but we know that this woman can sing her butt off live. I mean, we've seen it. But the stopping of that moment, there was an audible gasp in the room when this happened. Because nobody ever stops a show on live television, right? The show must go on. But that's shitty advice sometimes. The show does not have to go on. Yeah, she made the absolute right call.

She said, I can't do this to him. Like, I have to do this right for him. and then just went back and started it. She restarted. She says, fuck on national television. They bleep it out. She apologizes to the producer. But that is the moment for me that is Piccadale

because here she steps up for this sort of soaring, slowed down beautiful tribute to George Michael. We've all wanted that do-over moment. Adele in that moment is powerful enough to actually get it. And there's something so wonderful and relatable to not wanting to screw up and wanting that second chance that she just put on display for all of us

and the sort of, you know, the language and everything that is, of course, is what anybody would say. It's just not something you expect to hear on national television. So it was this wonderful juxtaposition of her power, the fact that the entire telecast stopped for her, but then also her vulnerability and sort of every person expletive dropping

that is what makes you love her. Her superpower, is obviously her voice, but she has a real power for kind of curation. And it's something that I've come to appreciate a lot more going through this because she does, you know, she's not the biggest envelope pusher in a lot of ways, but she seems to save herself because she does push herself to not accept the things that maybe aren't good enough. You know, she's very quick to say, nope, We need to try this again. It's a great point. These songs aren't good enough.

And if you're someone who's operating mostly in familiar territory and mostly in a similar set of molds, you can succeed that way if you're close to always doing really superlative work in those limited spaces. Right. And I don't think that she, you know, I don't think that she gets an A every single time with that. And sometimes you do want, I mean, look, like, Taylor Swift is my favorite artist, and Taylor Swift has made an incredibly long career out of being chameleonic. And in some ways, I don't think that there's a real way to match that, to match a thing where someone is just constantly giving you something fresh and something new and something interesting. Yeah. But it does seem like Adele really understands when to say, no, no, that's not up to snuff. It's not good enough. We need to. to start it again or we need to do something different or we need to throw this out. And I think that is an example of that happening in real time, which is of course so impressive because just imagine sort of how your brain would feel and react to something like that. It seems silly for us to be surprised at the power of and confidence she has in her own voice, literally and figuratively,

but she does. And that is a consistent theme throughout her career, which is that she trusts her instincts and she speaks up to make sure that she gets what she wants. And so, look, that moment at the Grammys or moments at the Grammys across those couple of years really helped us shape that image of Adele, I think, as both things that we know her to be, which was this powerful woman, but also this accessible human being, there is another moment as we get to best vocal moment for me that also shaped certainly her relatability. And I think, that the best vocal moment for Adele through this whole era

is actually not Adele but is James Corden singing with her in Carpool karaoke. She is impressed with James Gordon. I was impressed with James Corden. He's doing the harmonies? Yeah, he's nailing the harmonies. He needs to keep his hands on the wheel more often because

it's 2015. Nobody is driving a self-driving Tesla at this point. So he lets us in a little bit to maybe the tricks of what they do. But you got to keep your hands in. But let's at least, you know, stick with the bit for Christ's sake, James. Let's go. But he was so focused on nailing these harmonies with the Dill. And she seemed genuinely impressed. Did she not? Yeah. She was caught off guard a couple times by him, including when then he suggests that he should be her hype man. And he starts doing the like, get your hands up. Get your hands up. Get your hands up. get your hands up over the song. And she's looking at him like, you might be a little insane. I'm glad you're not actually driving this car. Although she was more committed to the bit than he was.

Yes. At one point, she spills her tea. And he starts to go, oh, let me help you. And then she goes, no, you have to keep your hands on the wheel. Right. And it's like, Adele's great. She just gets it. Right.

She talks about the coat that she got, the new coat that she got out of the budget of the shoot. And, oh, now I've ruined it. I mean, it's just the whole thing is, Absolutely terrific. I really think that coming out of this, this is why Corden got a better seat than Ellen, because of the chemistry between the two of them on this carpool karaoke. This seating chart has really wedged itself into your brain. I'm never going to understand it. I got to, I need, I break it down like, I mean, we need a separate pod on that on that seating chart. That may be the wrap-up pod.

My friend Katie of the Winter Park detail, Winter Fair. Detail. Winter Fair. Excuse me. Her question was why there wasn't, why there wasn't a Beckham present. And you said that there was, because there was the old photo of the Spice Girls projected up onto the, to the wall. But I still think there should have been a Beckham. Well, I mean, not every celebrity in the world happened to be free that day. So I'm sure maybe they were invited. I mean, listen, you said. Or, or, or Jerry Hallowell was her favorite spice girl. Jerry's got a lot of free time. Jerry can get on a plane. Jerry should have been there. Come on, girl.

Yeah, that's, that's fair. I mean, that's fair. Your husband's off racing cars. Let's get to it. Yeah, I get it. I think I can see that. This is 15 minutes of great content, though. If you haven't seen it, go see it.

Well, it is great. It is 15 minutes of great content because for my best vocal moment, we'll have to talk about some of the best runs from Hello and stuff, because obviously there are some incredible song. moments. But I stayed in the car. Oh, you did? Because I stayed in the car. It is her rapping monster by Nikki Minaj.

Forget Barbie. Nikki cheese page. She on a jacket while I can't eat cheese cake. And I'll say, by the truck of his child's play. Just killed another career in Samo. Yeah, we have a lot of overlap in our Venn diagrams. They're just across different categories today, Nora. This is

what happens when we don't compare notes, but I like it. It was awesome. Let's be clear. It was awesome. And she just crushed it. And again, most of the value of that is it's just great TV. It's really fun. And it's very cool to see her be so deft at using her voice in a very, very, very different medium. But I do think that there's a little extra nugget to it where it shows you that she's really aware of pop and of hip hop. Yeah.

And we do get a few clues, you know, the Grammy's stuff. is another one of them. But we get a few more clues during this era that she is tapped in. And that's not something that we ever really could tell one way or another. So I think it's very cool. I think it's a very cool indication that, you know, Adele is, Adele's out listening to stuff. She's aware of what's going on.

She listens to Nikki Minaj enough to be able to do it perfectly. I mean, as surprised as she was by. cordon being able to do the harmonies. He was shocked that she pulled this off to the extent that she did. So that is my best vocal moment. Well, I am curious then, based on what you have laid out here today,

about what song we're going to jettison into the fucking sun from this album. Because I actually think that through and through this album is strong. I don't love the Epworth songs on this album, but I do think, by the way, we need to give him credit because he was,

I believe, the co-writer on Skyfall, which is not on this album, but is a very meaningful song that came out just after 21 and gets her halfway to the EGOT, right? Yes. She wins Oscar for Skyfall.

It's a beautiful song. It shows up on the set list going forward. But it's, you know, I wouldn't necessarily jettison those two songs into the sun. for me, if I've got to cut something on this album, it is million years ago. And I'll tell you why.

I mean, Kirsten's going to be fine because he wrote hello. But this song is Phantom of the Opera. Right? Oh, I have it as there are worse things I could do from Greece. I'm cutting it too. Either way, it is, no. This is Phantom of the Opera.

I mean, it is... Okay, I think it's Greece, but I'll go there with it. you. Well, okay, let's go. Kaya, back to back. I wish I could flirt with all the guys. I would cut million years ago to whatever source of inspiration, I just find it too sort of saccharin. There's something very vulnerable and very direct about the lyrics. You know, I miss my friends. She just sort of says stuff. It all gets masked to me by how sort of soppy it is and not in a good way.

It's a little bit like Daydreamer on 19 in that way. It's just kind of like, we're back to, we're almost back to Mastros. I cut million years ago too. I also, Love in the Dark does not do a whole lot for me. Really? Even though it has the Easter egg,

it really doesn't get me. Yeah, I mean, I can live. without it, that's for sure. I just think through and through, the songs on this album are solid. And there's a couple that are definitely appointment listeners. And I just, I enjoy the song writing from this record, even though it was obviously fragmented and scattered. I mean, this is more of like a, you know, it's more of a collection of fiefdoms than a fully sort of integrated kingdom, I guess. But I, there's something consistent about the quality of songs

throughout it. So if we're going to kill something, it's million years ago. I hear you. Love you in the dark. I could potentially get rid of. But I think now understanding the context, it just has to stay. Well, and also a song that I do like a lot, Water Under the Bridge, that song is sort of about her, it's about her relationship with Simon through the lens of we've done a lot of meaningful things together. You know, if you're going to let me down, let me down gently. Right. Like, we're not done with each other, even if we're sort of done with each other.

So it does have an interesting pairing. And Water Under the Bridge is a song that I really like on this album. Again, when she can work in a space that's really big and bombastic, but is still a little bit more poppy, has a little bit more sort of just a little bit more going on production-wise. I think that's a really good space for her. So. And that's also a Kirsten song. So we can forgive him for a million years ago

because I like both of those songs very much. I do too. I do too. And he's going to play a big role in 30. How do you feel, speaking of 30, how do you feel about the Mack song, Send My Love to Your New Lover on this one versus versus... Can I get it?

Can I get it on 30? I mean, I love that she's playing guitar. That too, by the way, the little guitar riff reeks of what we heard on... We're never getting back together from Red. But anyway, how do you feel about those two songs in sort of comparison? I like the, I like, can I get it better. Really?

Yeah. That's what I had a sense of. I had a sense you didn't love semi-love. I like semi-love. See, this is another one where the, the, something about the melody feels like there's not enough of it to me. And it just doesn't like the, the, the beats cool, the textures of it are cool. But I don't think that her power of being able to sort of glide from word to word.

I don't think they really use it very effectively. It's purposefully so staccato, but there's something about it that I like the song, but I don't, you know, that was a really popular song. That was one of the biggest songs from this album. It did not have that effect on me. There's something for me across all the songs on this album that finally feel like, like they belong to her, even if they, you know, and Rick Rubin disagreed with this, but they feel less like somebody was trying to create a vessel for her voice than they do

songs that she's singing. And I just don't know how many of these songs somebody else could cover and make them their own. I mean, hello, come on. You know, look, the only one. Oh, I'm so glad you just said that. We're going to come back to that. Because you're going to make a point about all I ask, I think. No, I'm not. That's not what's happening. Okay. You're going to find out by the end of this podcast. You just have to trust me. But what did you want to say about all I ask? I do. Well, look, all I ask is I can't hear her singing it and not think about Bruno. So it really is a Bruno Mars song complete with that key change. I think they were trying to create something again more uptempo and they ended with that. Bruno himself has said, as he sung it live, that it's a very important song to him. So, It feels to me like more of a Bruno song than an Adele song. I love it, though, because so the other ballads, Love in the Dark and Million years ago, being the ones that I would cut if I had to,

all I ask is so, so sappy that I think it works. It commits to what it's doing so thoroughly that I just, I really, really love it. And you're right that they were originally trying to make something more up-tempo, but not with that song. They got in the studio with the intention of doing something different and making something more upbeat, but it just wasn't working. And so they decided to go in the complete opposite direction and commit to making the sappiest, most indulgently balladied. Mission accomplished. Song that they could.

And when her, when she says, what if I never love again? when there's the little catch in her voice like she's crying through it. It's so good. And then the lyrics I also think are really, really good. It matters how this ends, I think, is a really, really cool idea.

And then the key change. You give them credit for just go and hang out. Yeah, they're not messing around. I have a question for you, Nora. Okay. What is this? British thing. Oh no. Oh no. What is it? Well, it is

the River Lee, which is a river. In southeast England, it flows through Tottenham, and it is the eastern most major tributary to the Thames. It is referenced in the famous nursery rhyme London Bridge is falling down. Seems like this is just top of mind for you. Why would it be top of mind for me? It should be top of mind for you. Perhaps you even saw the River Lee. I probably flew over it. That's true.

But it goes deeper because, so this is the name of the seventh track on the album. It's the one she did with Danger Mouse. Wait a minute. Yes. Are you going to go like Beautiful Mind Numbers Easter Egg thing here? It's the seventh track. Not quite. Okay.

It doesn't have to do with where it falls in the album. Okay, okay. I'm just placing it in context. I was just trying to get mentally prepped for what knowledge you're about to drop. You seem to know a lot of the rivers. It's this song. about Adele going home, but not really feeling like she's a part of the community that she grew up in anymore. There's so much nostalgia across this album.

No. Hometown glory style, but this is a really strong example. You know, she says, I can't go back, but the reeds are growing out of my fingertips. I can't go back to the river, but it's in my roots and my veins. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So she's sort of strayed from her old crew and she's not sure what her place is there, but it's still this big part. of her and it means a lot. The very beginning of this song, the first two chords on the organ, are the same first two chords of With a Little Help for My Friends. But then, whereas in that song,

you stay, you know, everything is major, it's sunny, everything sounds good and happy. The third chord at the beginning of the Riverley, of Riverley, it's all of a sudden it gets moody. It's, all of a sudden, it gets moody and sad and distant. And I don't know if that was on purpose or not, but I can't hear anything else at the start of this song. And it's so effective because what is the song about other than sort of distance with, you know, her home in the UK and then also some of the friends and the people that she grew up with and felt connected with at one point and then maybe was worrying about sort of drift

away from as she figured out what her life as a parent, as a superstar, as all of those new things was. Also, she tried to work with the fucking blur guy on this. I feel like we have to bring this up. Okay. Make your complaint. When she was going through all of the sort of back and forth of what to, how to make this album and trying to work with all sorts of different people to find some source of inspiration. She tried working with the front, with Damon Albar and the front man from Blur. And it did not work. And then he like talked to a reporter and said that she was really insecure.

And that guy sucks. Didn't Phil Collins also say some shit? Or maybe he was more gracious. She tried to work with Phil, but she never really. She's like, yeah, Phil, we're going to work together. And then somebody's like, you're going to fucking work with Phil Collins. He's 85 years old. What are you doing? And he can just play drum phil. And then. she started to blow off Phil, like he was like trying to get a second date and she was not into it. All right, but I don't think Phil Collins then went and

told a bunch of reporters that she was insecure. I think he basically, no, no. He did say something like, well, I guess she's got an album coming out. I know I'm not on it. I'm like, yeah, Phil, you're not on it. So. I don't agree with Noel Gallagher on very much, but we do both agree that

that guy's a loser. That guy's a loser? Well, I think it was more colorful than that. Right. He probably used the word fucking. I believe, yeah, I believe he said, he has a long history of saying unkind things about blur, which is not nice, but is very funny. It is, yeah. It's kind of like the inverse of how you love Valentine's Day.

You love that movie. Just going to move straight past that. Okay. What is your entry? Fresh off a journey to the homeland. what she got. My entry was, I already spoke to it. It was the self-deprecating speech at the Grammys,

which I think was more than that, but it was just delightfully British to get the award and then say, and still be like, oh, I'm not good enough for this. I also, I know that I said that it's not, like, the most resonant song with me, but there is a very delightfully British element to send my love to your new lover.

Like, it's so sort of delicately sassy in a very British way. Agree. Nora, you have spoken a lot about songs that she should cover. I would have said it's Minaj's monster, obviously from Carpool Karaoke.

You also previously in this series spoke to how she should do Spice Girl's song and she does sing a Spice Girl song in that Carpool Karaoke edition. So me being out of bullets once again, I am very much looking forward to hear your statement on what songs you should have covered. So I chose to do this differently.

Oh, boy. What are we doing here? You said earlier in this podcast. Really have gone super rogue on me on this pod and I'm loving it. So keep going. Thank you. You mentioned that there are a lot of instances where it would be very hard for somebody else to cover an Adele song.

I think that's true. However, we just talked about the sort of delightfully accent and kiss-offy elements from across the pond that work very well on. Send My Love to your new La Hover. Right. Shouldn't Ed Sheerun't that song? Oh, wow. Wouldn't that be great?

I mean, he's probably written three songs that are that song because that's kind of what Ed does. Right. He's probably pilfered it. The rhythmic guitar thing in the beginning, it's very Taylor in that era, but it's also very Ed Shearin. I think the other thing that I was saying about how. the choppiness of the vocal doesn't work perfectly

for me from Adele on that song. He's a badass cover artist. Yeah, he could stand up on a table and a pub and slay that thing. No doubt. That's my entry. That's a great call. Super well done. Norah, I really appreciate your contributions to the categories today. You know, I think it turns out, though, that on that tour, she, you know, we spoke to, I can't make you love me, that the tour that she did around this album,

which was one of the biggest of all time, certainly for the secondary market, because she played to like three million people and, you know, the average ticket price was something like, she only made $168 million on this tour, which sounds like a lot of money and it is a lot of money, but Coldplay is going to go play stadiums and make a billion dollars today and, you know, we're only five-ish years later. Her average ticket price on this tour was only $56. So the secondary market had a field day. She did everything she could, working with some startup companies and exist,

you know, large players in the space to try to combat the bots and the brokers. And I'm saying this on a day in which her pre-sales have been postponed for this new tour for her Vegas residency, I should say, because AWS Amazon's having some issues. And so there's so much. much load that comes in, so much demand comes in for this inventory. I mean, 10 million people trying to buy 750,000 tickets in North America, there just isn't any way to get, you know,

the proverbial fat man through the eye of the needle in that one. Massive imbalances in supply and demand. But we know, I use that as a jumping off point to just mention that this tour, there was so much pent-up demand that it almost crashed systems around the world as people tried to buy these tickets. It was the show to go see. And she was singing, I can't make you love me as a part of that set list. So thankfully on this album, she finally didn't deliver a cover for the first time. But I will say it does feel a little bit like all I ask was a Bruno Mars song. So I think that maybe that one takes the place. I love it. Last but not least, what is your grade for this album? Yeah, this is my favorite Adele album. It really is. And so it won Grammy of the year, I think I'm embarrassed that it won Grammy of the year because Beyonce's Lemonade matters in a million ways.

And I still listen to Beyonce's Lemonade to this day. But I love listening to some songs off 25 and I can go front to back and not wince in any way, shape, or form. So this album, as the fastest selling first week album of the 21st century is I think the fourth biggest selling album of the 21st century gets an A. Wow. Okay. I'm surprised by that just because you're, you're normally a tough grader. I agree with you in the listenability front to back. I have to say, I'm a little split on whether or not I prefer this to 21, just because I do think, I think the highs of 21 are a little bit higher. I agree. To me. But you'd shoot three of those songs right in the leg. Absolutely. Right. So it's funny that we're talking about Red so much because it's in some ways the same conversation about, you know, how much do you care about cohesion?

Yeah. And I think maybe I care about it a little bit less because I'm going to give this. I think I give it an A minus. Okay. Because I just don't, there's not enough that I hear and it's probably missing one more like, holy crap moment for me to be able to push it that high. Okay. Well, I mean, what this speaks to is what we spoke to earlier, which is that the Grammys mean nothing. And she called it out on live national television that perhaps they were in full. Slating grades or even worse that they were bestowing honors on albums that didn't actually deserve it. I think this was certainly an album of the year worthy, you know, recording.

But I do think, and by the way, she didn't just win album of the year. She was the first artist to sweep the album song and record of the year category twice. So this was not just a, she barely edged out. It felt in the moment like a landslide. And I think that's in part why she was so embarrassed because certainly. It felt to me historically like Beyonce had the better and certainly more enduring and more important album. Yeah. She was absolutely, you know, she was a more than worthy nominee, right?

Like this album absolutely should have been up there. And frankly, there were probably some other entries that is not to say that it was necessarily a two horse race, but it was certainly worthy of it. inclusion and something to be taken really seriously. Lemonade was just really special. And I think that's what, you know, we know that Adele will tell us when she doesn't think her album is very good. That's not what she was saying at all. And I don't think that's what anybody was saying.

It's just the willingness to honor something as special as lemonade when it's not there. It's right to ask questions about it. And that seems like what she was doing. Well, as we get back into 30, it's important to remember the legacy of this one for me, which is that it was a professional album through and through. 19 certainly was not. She'd be the first to say that,

although there's some absolute gems. 21, to your point, has lots of highs. It had a few lows. This one front to back told a story. It was consistent throughout. And as we get into 30, she took a lot of those lessons and applied them to the songs

that are still at the top of the charts as we record. Very good. I'm excited to hear how we wrap this all up and how many more times we are going to get the accent next week. We're going to wrap things up by going back to 30 a little bit. And then we're going to have some more surprises. So look for that about a week from now. This has been every single album, Adele. I'm Norprinciotti. He's Nathan Hubbard. Our thanks to Kaya McMullen for production on this episode. Goodbye.