Every Single Album - A Post–'1989 (Taylor's Version)' Mailbag | Every Single Album: Taylor Swift

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

Almost two weeks out from the release of '1989 (Taylor's Version),' Nora and Nathan open up the mailbag to talk about which of the rereleases have had the best vault tracks so far (1:00), which '1989' vault track they think Taylor Swift would make a music video for (45:37), and which album they think best represents Travis Kelce (1:01:51). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. It's Austin Rivers from Offguard. And I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide, Pasha Gigi, is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Prince Yacht.

And I am here with Nathan Hubbard for a follow-up 1989, Taylor's Version, Mailbag episode From the Vault extravaganza. Hello, Nathan. How are you doing? I'm terrified of this episode. We got really good questions. We got a lot of questions. We got very thoughtful questions.

More questions in the dock than I normally do for mailbag episodes, just because we tend to sometimes be a little long-winded. But they were so good. And also there were so many of them. So I tried to choose ones that covered the most ground. But just good job by everyone with the questions. Because there was a lot of really compelling stuff in there. Shall we just get to it?

This is going to be mostly 1989 related. Some of them have to do with just sort of the general Taylor discourse at this present moment. and a few of them are sort of random. But primarily, this is our follow-up to 1989 Taylor's version, which we've now had a couple weeks to live with and ruminate in. So that'll be fun. First question is from Wildest Creams, which I have to say is a great Instagram account

that pairs Taylor Swift songs with ice cream flavors. And so if you're not following, if anyone listening is not following, I would highly recommend that follow. The question is, do you think is it over now is always, going to be the single. Or might early streaming numbers have played a role. So is it over now as we record?

Debute at number one on the Hot 100, where Taylor currently occupies the entire top six, which beats Midnights, which had the entire top five after it was released. The interesting thing here is that initially it seemed like they were setting slut up to be the first single? Nathan did that? Yeah. So the things that made me think that is, I think first of all,

there was one kind of bloggy report that said that that was happening. I'm not sure that that actually came from anywhere, but it was also available as a digital single on the website that had the cover art where it had slut and pink font over Taylor's face, which was kind of funny.

So I thought that they were going there with it. Do you think that it was the fan enthusiasm around, is it over now, that changed this? Because now it is the first sort of official single being serviced radio. I think that the entire Taylor Swift Empire and Operation is largely impeccable in their execution across just about everything that they do, except one thing. It's picking lead singles.

It's picking lead singles. I mean, this is the Achilles heel. It just, it's there. God forbid the archer find that heel with an arrow, but it is just not what they do well. So I think that's probably it. And I think if we're being honest, a lot of the fan base was somewhat disappointed in Slut.

I really like the song, but I think we wanted a real rocker out of that one and we didn't quite get it. We didn't get like sort of an iconic chorus that was, you know, befitting of the title of the song. We wanted a cheeky feminism bop. I wanted a cheeky feminism bop and it didn't happen. And you like this song, actually, I think more than most people.

I do. I'm going to be brave here and say that the entire vault has grown on me, including the songs that I initially really liked, except for this song. Wow. So, yeah, it's too, like, it will probably take years for me to disentangle my expectations for it and my hopes for it from how I just hear the dreaminess and the vibiness and the slowness of it and go, I don't, I don't really want to listen to this. It is my least favorite song from the Bolt. What?

Yeah. You like suburban legends better? Yes, I do like suburban legends better than Slot. Dude, we're going to have to talk about that in a minute. By the way, decades from now, if either one of us does anything relevant with the rest of our lives, the clips that people are going to be able to pull from this era of content being like, I like suburban legends better than Slut. It's going to be incredible.

So step back for a minute. Of all of the vault songs that have been released since the start of this project when she put Fearless out, what are the ones that you actually go back to and listen? And 10 minute all too well, does that count or not? It doesn't, it counts, I do think that it, I do think that it counts. Is there any doubt that that is the best vault song? It's definitely the most important fault song. Yeah, no, I think it is the best fault song. I mean, it's, it's hard, right? Because I'm, Like what percentage, what, and but what percentage of what you love about that is from the vault, right? Like, all too well, 10 is from the vault, but also 60% of it is the song that we already had. But I love the production. It's the production for me. That's where I love the jack all over that thing.

I am more about the lyrics, I think, than you in terms of what I like about the 10-minute version. But if we're counting it, then yes. I think it's the best fault track. Okay. What else sits with you? Nothing new. How can a person know everything at 18, but nothing at 22? Yeah.

Has really, really lasted. I'll bet you think about me has lasted. You laughed at my dreams, rolled your eyes at my jokes. Red is the best. vault to my ear. Still? Yes. I think red to me has the best vault of all the re-recordings. I can see now. I can see you. So this, I can see you and speak now is an interesting one to compare to 1989 because even though I, you know, I don't really care for slut. It's my least favorite song from the vault. The 1989 vault to me is very consistent. I don't know that there's a song in,

Like, there's no song in the 1989 vault that I like as much as I like, I can see you. But if my second favorite song from the Speak Now Vault, I think, is Emma Falls in Love. Hangs in the air like stars in outer space. And I think... That's just because you don't want to give me any satisfaction of telling me that you have come around to electric touch. Electric Touch is fine. I just like... It's better than fine.

You are able to feel things to that song that I just like will never access, but I'm happy for you. And I have no beef with that song. It's like well constructed and cool and whatever. And I'd rather listen to it than the we didn't start the fire. I can certainly say that. Okay. We agree on that. But most of the 1989 vault, I think,

would slot in for me in between I can see you and when Emma falls in love. So it's like more consistent, but it's not quite at, you know, if I have to choose one song from either one to take to a desert island, it's I can see you. So I don't, I guess that means I think

the 1989 vault is better than the speak now vault, but it's close because I just really love I can see you. Okay. What about you? What sticks with me? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, better man.

For sure. Red is unquestionably the best vault, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I think this is pretty good. I have to say, I think the vault,

separating out the way that I feel about how much it sounds like midnight and how much I want her to work with some new people because it's really exciting when she does that. not because there's anything wrong with Jack Antonoff. I am, as I have just described multiple times, God, we're only one question in. I am a massive thing. Well, we actually did get another question

about ranking all the re-recorded vaults. So we're kind of, you know, two birds. All right. Well, I think, yeah, I, Better Man, I definitely go to, I can see you. I just, the vault songs have not been on regular. rotation for me. I see them as context for the rest of the album. I think in some cases, they've been just add-ons to get you to pay attention, but in other cases, it's been real context

to help you understand what was going on. And 1989 is first amongst all of the re-releases, I think, in how the vault helps shape the way that I think about 1989 and what it's about and what it means. And so for that, the songs aside, I'm appreciative that it's out in the world. It is definitely the number one recontextualization, vault. I think ultimately I go read 1989, speak now fearless. Okay.

that's probably the right, that's probably what I would say to. Yeah. That question, by the way, asking us to rank the re-recorded albums, Valtz, was from Baphne.

So thank you for that question. Okay. Just to circle back and close the loop on Slut, I, too, believe that they wanted this to be the single, which is

canonically part of the weird lead single choice story, because take away my personal feelings about the song, It's not exactly giving, like, radio hit. No. Do you think she just is determined to make a song

with an exclamation point in the title, a hit? And since me... Since we rejected me, she's... Maybe she's just... She really, like, seeing it on the little billboard list. Like, Slet has an exclamation point and quotation marks. She just really wanted to get that in there. Maybe it's, like, a bit.

Maybe she and Jack have some weird... Yeah. Where it's like, where like there was the, I think I saw Andy Sandberg giving an interview over the weekend about how the Lonely Island used to try to say Jimmy Fallon and like every interview. Maybe this is their version of that. And you know what Jimmy Fallon says. He always says, truth is stranger than not truth. It's a weird way of phrasing it, but that's Jimmy.

Well, I mean, now that we're talking about it, why does it need the exclamation point? It doesn't. It doesn't need the exclamation point. That's what didn't work about this song. You think you would like it better if it just was slut instead of slut? No, so I would like it better if it was still slut exclamation point

and she had risen to that occasion. And she was giving slut exclamation point. That's just what I don't think is happening. I mean... Okay. She's even like the message, the lyrics of the song Like, if they call me a slut,

oh well, we're in love. Right. It's just very funny. Whatever. I'm into this song. It's okay. Okay. I'm happy for you.

Is it over now? I'm super into. So, regardless of what the plan was with slut, which, you know, it was available as the digital single? on the website for the first weekend that 1989 Taylor's version was out. But then they did take it down. And over that first weekend,

I think it was already apparent that people were really latching on to Is It Over Now? And that that was a really interesting song in terms of how it does recontextualize the album, but also just an absolute bop. So I do think that they were keeping an eye out

and noticed that there was real energy behind that song and rode the wave. And look, I mean, for all that so many of us, you know, tweet and express our opinions, we know that she listens, and this seems like an example of that. Is it surprised you that there's no feature on any of these tracks? No, not really.

I think there was one potential feature opportunity that kind of lived as a specter over this entire thing. And if it wasn't going to be that, I don't know who else really needs to be here. Okay. Thoughts, feelings? I mean, I think that's probably right. Do you think that there was any discussion

having some features on this? Do you think she reached out to anybody? Are you asking me if I think that she tried to get Harry Styles on style featuring Harry Styles? Yes. Look, the woman knows how to make a play for the zeitgeist. Mm-hmm. That's all I know. Mm-hmm.

You think it could have been possible. I have a secret. I will never tell. But I am... You know you love me, XOXO Gossip Girl. I'm just surprised. Like, when you dial back out and you sort of look at this thing as a whole, I am surprised that there are no features.

I mean, Kendrick Lamar doesn't count because that existed before. Do you know that you're being so sketchy right now? Like, I have a secret. I have a secret. And I'm just going to keep it to myself. I'm Nathan. I'm in my little black recording studio. No.

I never know. I just, that's a question. at some point I would like to see addressed. Question ellipses question mark. Can I ask you a question? Yes. I would love to hear an answer a little more detail

on whether there was a discussion of having anyone feature on this fault or whether it was intentional that she didn't. I think there were two possibilities for the 1989 Taylor's version vault. for features. I think one was that they were actually going to do the thing and see if they could get Harry to do it.

And the other possibility is, I mean, look, Kendrick is sort of grandfathered in. Musically, this is the album that exists outside of the context of contemporary music, right? Like, that was a huge discussion at the time of 1989. I think that that makes it an album that is. not really ripe for a lot of features. So in terms of, am I surprised that they didn't, you know, go ask Hime to get on a song for

this one or Sabrina Carventer or whoever? Like, I'm not surprised that we don't have anything like that. You're not? Why are you not surprised? Because she did it, I mean, with everyone from Keith Urban to, you know, she's just sort of across the whole Chris Stapleton. Because this is, the point of, musically, the point of this album is like a clean slate. It is these sort of vaguely 80s references, but that was intended for her to be this like fresh reset.

And I don't think that referencing like the contemporary pop of Hym or the country of a Chris Stapleton fits within that goal and that framework. See, I sort of felt speak now was that way where it was sort of all her as a right. and sort of the focus spotlight was on her artistry across the creation of an album, not just as a songwriter. Yeah, but the people that she had feature on Speak Now are like Taylor Obsession artists from within that time period.

Well, there's a Taylor obsession artist or two from within this time period. But not in the same, like, it... She dated one of them. What is, so Harry is separate. That is between Taylor Swift, Harry Styles, and God, whatever happened on that snowmobile within this re-recording process. I'm not counting that. That's a different thing.

But I do think that like, I think that someone like, you know, not Harry, but like, like Nile, right? It pierces the sort of sheen and the one-track-mindedness that made 1989 what it was to start inviting a bunch of other people into it. Again, that is completely separate from the hairy discussion because, as we have learned, a huge amount of this album is about one person and that person also happens to be a recording artist who is the subject of much speculation that can you think of a single song on which harry styles has featured no yeah neither can i interesting he's never been a feature artist ever

but he's never even showed up on you know i mean taylor showed up on a hym song and other stuff i mean look there are two separate questions here right there's did taylor ask in the first place which is one path to there being no style featuring Harry Styles is she would never ask him to do that and, you know, we were all silly. The other path is she asked and he said no, right? And I do think that from Harry's perspective, there's no way for him to do that without becoming a bit player in the Taylor Swift universe. Right. So I would not have done it if I was Harry Styles. I don't know that I would have done it if I was Harry Styles either. I actually, I think I distinctly would not have don't know if I was hair styles. I don't know that I would have asked if I was Taylor, but if I was

Harris-Siles, I don't think that I would have said yes. Right. It would have been awesome. I feel disappointed that it's not here. But we learned a lot more, sort of ironically, we learned a lot more about the album and the relationship and her feelings about it all through the vault without him on it. We did indeed. I think we got some questions about that. But Meg Davenport has our next question, which is, what are your thoughts on the Argyle theory? Do you know what this is? Meg, what the fuck is the Argyle theory? Okay.

I can't believe, like, okay. So the Argyll theory, I'm like in this, there is an upcoming movie called Argyle that a lot of people have speculated Taylor might have written under a story. pseudonym. Here is the evidence. The movie is about a, like, spy novel writer who gets caught up in, like, actual spy shenanigans. Bryce Ellis Howard plays the author, whose name is Ellie Conway. And she does look a fair bit like Taylor playing the author at the end of the All Too Well short film. That's just for sure. Right. Looking in the window at Jake. Right. Yeah, when she has a red hair and all that. Second of all, this main character, Ellie Conway, she has a Scottish fold cat.

Hey, there's a cat in there. Oh my God, you're Ellie freaking Conway. The cat is an integral character in the movie, enough so that the poster for the movie is a little Argyle backpack, which is a cat carrier backpack that has the little fishbowl window on the front where the cat can, you know, poke its face out. This is some clown-ass shit. No. Okay. Actually, like, hold on. Okay. Ellie Conway is the main character in the movie, but is also supposedly the author

in real life of a yet-to-be-published novel that the movie is based on. But she does not seem to actually be a real person. Uh, she has a random house author bio that is like really vague. It just says Ellie Conway was born and raised in upstate New York. She wrote her first novel about Agent Argyle

while working as a waitress in a late night diner. And then she has an Instagram but it doesn't have any pictures of her as a person on it. And she is always posting from the West Village of New York City. Also, Apple paid $200 million

for the rights to this movie. How do we know they paid $200 million? Vanity Fair. So take it up with them. Take it up with them. There is at least a story about it. It's an exorbitant number. There's no way that it's real.

No way. Does Vanity Fair address the Taylor-Sitch? So they claim that Taylor is not involved. Well, maybe they're wrong on both fronts. Here is what I want to say. This is so... By the way, the trailer to this movie looks absolutely ridiculous. but there is something going on here.

Really? That specific cat backpack is a reference to literally nothing in this world other than the scene from Miss Americana. Yeah. Where Taylor has the cats in the backpack. So whether or not Taylor could have absolutely nothing to do with this thing

and the people making this movie could have constructed an elaborate ruse to pull all of us in and get all of us in. and get all of us interested, fine. What I am not willing to accept is the idea

that all of these coincidences are completely meaningless. But you sound like every other Taylor Swift conspiracy theorist on the planet, whether it is about anything. We connect the most disparate of dots to form...

These dots, these dots, they are on... These dots matter. These dots matter. It's a Scottish fold cat. It's the same breed of cat as Meredith and Olivia. How many Scottish fold cats do you think walk the planet right now? There's, there are, it's not a question of, of the scarcity of the breed. Since when did she corner the market on Scottish fold cats?

Okay, kind of since always, kind of since, since, is it Meredith or Olivia who has the crazy net worth? One of them is, one of them has like, one of those is worth like $93 million. I think it's Olivia. Dibbles. I do kind of think Taylor has cornered the market on Scottish folds. Okay. Like, if I got a Scottish fold and people came over to see my cat,

they would be like, oh my God, that's the cat that Taylor has. That's the same type of cat that Taylor has. Yeah, it's Olivia. Olivia's net worth is $97 million. Because she did all those commercials. According to All About Cats. Okay, who's quoting disreputable sources now? I'm just saying this is bonkers.

This is what you allow yourself to do. You allow yourself to just tumble down these rabbit holes. And then you get disappointed when Harry doesn't show up on style. I wouldn't, but I wouldn't like change my experience. What's going to have a bigger opening weekend? Argyle or the Ares Tour movie? The Ares Tour movie, I think. Although I will be seeing Argyle.

The trailer looks unhinged. If Taylor Swift wrote this movie. Dualipa is in this movie. What? Doolipa. John Cena. I think she's a spy. I can't really tell. I just...

I'm out of words. You have to watch the trailer. Okay. But I'm in. I'm going to be seeing the... movie. I think it's out in like February or something. So you know what? It worked. The marketing worked on me. What else can I say? You're directing people to random parts of the internet. You're sending people to wildest creams, which by the way, nobody Google that. You can Google Argold trailer.

It's a good Instagram account. This is a real movie with Dula Lipa and John Sina and Bryce Dallas Howard. What do you think Doa's strategy there is? She's like, look, if people are going to buy me being an actor, I got to have somebody working across me who is not going to deliver a George Clooney-esque performance. Let's get John Cena. Sina will pull his weight, but no more.

Not a pound more. There seemed to be a lot of In the trailer It was a lot of It was a lot of stunts It was a lot of like heisty Fast-paced chase We have to get off this

This is nonsense We are massively overselling this thing We're just going to move on Moving on Meg You and Nora are bonkers I love you Meg You're the best Meg This was fun for me

I appreciated it Okay we did the re-recording album's question important. This question came from... Sorry, I don't want to make fun of anybody's handle. I'm just like, I have the sillies now because we talked about a movie with a cat in it. Scrimp, I think, was the name. Scrimp. But this is an important question. Do you think that's a seagull on Is It Over Now?

And if not, what is that sound? Well, people also hear a cat, right? On now that we don't talk? Yes, I cannot hear the cat whatsoever. The cat allegedly meows after the long weekends with line. I don't hear the cat at all. I hear like a whale. Olivia's worth $97 million. Taylor would love to put her in the credits.

That's like three Travis Kelsey's. That was in Vanity Fair too. She would be celebrating this from the rooftops if the cat had actually sung. I do agree with that. Yes, I absolutely agree with that. The seagull, I also don't think that it's a real seagull. I think that's just some like Jack Antointoff bullshit. Yeah.

Positive, not derogatory. A loving statement. But it does sound like a seagull. It's like, g-h. Did that sound like a seagull? It kind of. Like, ah! Sounds more like a squirrel.

That's not what? squirrels like chitter-chatter. Like a paranoid squirrel. Okay. I don't know. That's not something I need familiarity with. Sounds like a Scottish fold. A Scottish fold counting its money.

Is it over now? It is your favorite track on the vault? Yes. It is mine too. Okay? It is. Do you hear the recycling of some ideas from out of the woods or

style on Is It Over Now? And does that at all diminish your enjoyment? Is it part of why you like it? Have you thought about that? It does not diminish my enjoyment. What I love about is it over... I like the song in general, but bridge hits. I think I didn't see you.

They were flashing lights. At least I had the decency to keep our nights out of sight. Only one goes by my hips and thighs. Which, yes, that is a parallel to Out of the Woods, certainly. out of the woods is a song where the bridge by far is what hooks me in. But, you know, I love how the texture on her voice changes when she gets there. I love the drama of, you know, I think about jumping.

I think about jumping off a very tall somethings just to see you come running. And all of that, I think, is really, really the part of the song where I get into it. It's not that much. That and now that we don't talk for me are really close. But I do ultimately probably go to Is It Over now? But I think both of those are really far up there. And then the one that has grown on me like insanely a lot is say, don't go. There are people who really ride or die for Say Don't Go.

Say Don't Go is a bop. It's a sad girl bop. Okay. I'm here for it. Okay. I've said my piece about Say Don't Go, but I respect the people who really love that song. Thank you.

Leah Serafini asks, Are we getting a Rep Taylor's version announcement on November 10th? which would be the sixth anniversary of the original release. Will you allow me to make the case for this, Nathan? And then you can just dump water on all of my theories and all of my hopes and all of my dreams. No, I don't want to be that person.

Make the case. Let's go. Okay. So, November 10th, first of all, was 13 days after October 27th, which is when 1989 Taylor's version came out. There was the banner on the website announcing of 1989 Taylor's version where the S inversion looked like a snake.

Well, she's wearing snake rings all over New York right now. The snakes are out and about. Followed by the I-O-N, which looks like 10 and 10 November. A lot of people have identified this glitch lyric where she says it's been 2,190 days of our love blackout. and 190 days of all of Blackout. And have identified that November, that it'll have been that many days

since reputation was released. Because that's the part that I don't really get why that matters, because that's just six years. And yeah, it's the six-year anniversary. But then I don't get why the glitch lyric really factors into it. And also a certain relationship of hers was famously like six years long. So I just, that part I don't really get.

I see. The most compelling piece of this to me is the, um, the little S snake. And the fact that she is out in about quite a bit wearing combinations of black and blue. Yeah. Which some people thought was going to, was signaling a double album. Obviously that didn't happen. You see where I'm going with these things. These data points that get stitched together.

I guess in my heart of, okay, okay, in my heart of hearts, this one, I don't feel this one in my soul. Well, what I want to know is how do you reconcile this with the coffee cup, you know, whatever, cappuccino or latte scene from the bejouled video, right, where she's got the 1989 blue nail and the reputation black nail. And the black nail is pointing to, I believe, two, which would indicate February. On the other hand, the blue nail was pointing to nine, which would have indicated September. I think sometimes she accidentally Easter eggs when she doesn't know she's doing it. That said, if you told me that Reputation Taylor's version was going to come out sometime in February,

just in terms of the overall timeline, that feels more right to me. then... It would be weird, though, Nora, for us to now get through the entire holiday season with nothing else from her. Wow. Well, you know what?

She could drop. Live album. The Taylor Swift holiday album, Taylor's version. Yes. Christmas Tree Farm forever. Well, she has... Christmas Tree Farm is her name.

already, but she's got to get the Christmas must mean something more Taylor's version going. Maybe there's some Christmas from the vault. Like, let's do it. If that was the surprise November 10th release, I would like jump for joy. I would be so pumped.

I mean, we're like a, not even a week out from that. I know. We're going to find out soon. Okay. Okay. We'll see. Okay. I just think, I think look the data says, right? Speak Now didn't get erased, but I mean, 99 is going to go down

as like her biggest selling first week ever, I believe. Ever, yes. And it, you know, it's not a competition, but it way out did speak now. And we can talk about whether the added attention around her relationship, the movie,

all those things maybe sort of crescendoed to push it over the top. Or it's just that it's what we always understood. And the streaming data told us that it's everybody's favorite album from her back catalog. And so there was a lot more interest in it just naturally. I think it's probably some combination of all those things. I agree with that it's probably a combination of all those things. I do think I was thinking about when we did the first episode about this re-release. And it was fun. I think I felt some sort of some sense of like anxiety of how we talk about it. Because 1989 to me is so big and so shiny and glamorous and exciting and was such a statement musically and what it meant for her career and such a turning point that as good as I think

this re-recording is. And I do, I think it's good. 1989 is an album that just like overwhelms you or at least me. And so when I listened to it, you know, we did all the nitpicking and I had had different reactions to different songs. But the dominant feeling that I came away with was just like, holy shit. This is a good album. Like the re-recording is great. The original was great.

Like this is a body of work and a body of music. It was just a really impressive thing that happened. And it kind of overwhelms the small details to me. But that's like, you know, it's a hard thing to do a podcast about. It's just like, oh, 1999. It's good record. But I do think that there's some of that that's operative with this where it's just people want to listen to these songs.

Yeah. Look, we have 40 hours or so of probably more than that, of content from every single album, Taylor Swift, where for a long time we were trying to convince the masses of her greatness while celebrating the music and going through it

for the converted already. At this point, she is the biggest star on the planet. And so talking endlessly for hours about how great she is is kind of boring and misses the point. It's a lot more interesting, I think, in ways that acknowledge her greatness

to pull it apart a bit and find some of the interesting chinks in the army. It's armor. It's fun to talk about why they would have gone with slut as a single and how that sort of traces through the lineage of her albums. It's sort of more fun now to talk about the little bits that are off

because she is in this moment of absolute deification, and I would say largely for good reason. But it makes for much more fun potting when we can pull it apart a bit. Oh, totally. And the forensic stuff is kind of separate in some ways to me. There is this sort of funny dynamic, I think, where she is. Like, she's like a living deity, right? And she's so huge and so popular.

And I think there's so. still this weird feeling where a lot of her biggest fans got to know her as an artist and were supporting her even at times when she was objectively super hyper successful, but still felt weird about announcing how much they loved her and their fandom and how meaningful she was to people. Like I think there's often a disconnect between people who pay some attention

but who you know, especially like people who pay attention to music criticism sort of writ large and culture writ large where going back more than a decade I think the impression

that group gets is like Taylor Swift is on top of the world. Taylor Swift is always winning. Taylor Swift is always getting everything she wants. And then that's where there's often a disconnect, I think, with large parts of the fan base where, yeah, Taylor Swift might have been massively famous by the time of fearless. But also, she had a lot of fans who probably felt a little bit like, is this too girly? Is this lame? Is this like, should I keep it to myself that I really love, love this person? And I do think that that there is like a misunderstanding of energy.

between those two groups that sometimes leads to some friction, sometimes leads to just sort of like an interesting moment of the public conversation about Taylor Swift, which is, I think, where we are now. Yeah. The genius of Taylor is, to me,

that she's the one artist that the core fans don't resent the next layer of fans who've come in. Most of the time an artist gets big And it's those original fans who are like, oh, fucking, you know, this artist used to be cool. Most of the time. And it's cool. I just think, but the reason for that is because she feeds so much of the dots that are connectable,

even if they're not meant to be connected. She feeds that appetite so brilliantly. Yeah. But she gives enough of the raw meat to the core base that they're, they still feel taken care of and seen, even as the rest of the world, and now, you know, the NFL fans come into the fandom. Well, she's also made it easy for people who come in late or casually or whatever

to get the inside jokes, at least some of them pretty quickly, right? Like, you will learn about seemingly ranch and some of that stuff in the Easter egging and that part of the culture, which is in some ways centered around the behavior of like really, really intense fans and the core fans that have always been there. But like that phenomenon has really scaled up.

So I think it's very easy for fans coming in now to not only just enjoy her as an artist, but to be part of Swiftydom. But I also do think that there's a, like, there's still, a fair bit of, oh, you like Taylor Swift? Like, name every Willow remix. Yeah, fair enough.

It's not to say that that doesn't know. They'll always have like, No, it's Becky and everything else. I don't know. I love No, it's Becky. All right. Carrie H. Which 1989 Vault track do you think she'd make a music, a video for? Well, it's, is it over now, isn't it?

You dream of my mouth before it called to a lying traitor. Yeah, I think so. Just because of how. much people have latched onto it. It doesn't feel like one's coming, though, does it? Yeah, I guess I think it's not. I guess I think she's got enough going on right now. I will say that I like suburban legends more than you do.

There's an aesthetic quality to that. Just that idea that I think could be fun for her to play around with. So I might enjoy that, but I don't think that she would give that a try. treatment. The way that I get through that song is by thinking that it's actually about Suburban's, like the car. Because she's always driving around on those things. I mean, maybe that's, maybe it's a, maybe it's a double meaning.

That's actually a great, you know what? I think that's a really good read. Thank you, Nora. Because we did get it, we got another, um, we had another question. Which. Well, Victoria asked us what the fuck is suburban legend's even about. Yes, absolutely. And I think it's a really good question because I have to say,

can you think of another Taylor Swift song that is more opaque in what it's actually describing than this song? Because I'm not sure that I can. Someone is getting calls on unmarked numbers, which is a little sketchy. You had people who called you on unmarked. Mart number peripheral vision. I'm interested in that character. It's unclear if the high school thing is an analogy, is sort of the Miss Americana and the Heartbreak Prince thing being done over.

Or if this is literally someone that she knew in high school or someone who had a similar high school experience to hers, where she could dream about going back to a reunion. The theory that I'm sort of poking around is the possibility that it's about what's his face Kennedy. For the only reason that it has a little bit of, you know, it has the 1950s gymnasium. And she was really on her 50s core stuff around this era. And then the other thing was the lines I paced down your block and then waves crash on the shore.

Which are in the same part of the song. The best place that I can think of where Taylor could have walked down someone's block and been near waves crashing is when she is when she bought the place near the place near the kennedy. compound. There is the line about mismatched star signs. I had the fantasy

that maybe your mismatched star signs would surprise the whole school. I investigated that. Everyone was a pretty good match.

Connor Kennedy is a Leo. Taylor is a Sagittarius. It's good. It's fine. Harry is an Aquarius.

Also good. Also fine. fine. You know, for those who are interested, Carly Clause is also a Leo, so that's all fine and good. So we just don't really have a lot of, there's not a lot to go off of here. I find this song very confusing. So that's why I would argue for a music video for it, even though she would never do it. Just like, tell me what's going on in this song, Taylor. But this is, it's time for, it's time for a little sit down. She is such a massive media star

that if we're being honest, there was less actual setup for this album than for Speak Now, she didn't do a video for this. She did for Speak Now. There were no features on this one. She just kind of was Taylor Swift and put it out.

And again, massive attention on her because of the relationship. She's having fun and living her life in New York City and being photographed everywhere and those things are just being passed around. the internet. So I think that in and of itself was the media machine that helped drive it. Yes. No, hold on. Let's hang on this point for a second. Because we got a, there were a bunch of questions. Many of them also citing the lack of a music video about why she's done the least promo

for this re-record. She doesn't fucking need it. That's the answer. She's doing, like, she's doing the promo. She's hanging out of a skybox at the chief stadium. Yes. And the promo is when she's walking out of dinner. And she's wearing outfits. And we're all talking about it. And we're all texting about it. And we're all making TikToks about it. That's the promo. And it's working. Because this is the biggest release of the year. It's already outsold the original first week. And it broke the record that she already set with Midnights. And part of that is just more and more people join streaming services and blah, blah, blah, blah. But this is a huge, yeah, huge, huge, huge release for her.

Yes. And the thing about this is, she's such a big force now that she controls the message. She has, you know, she is the tower that beams whatever message she wants to the far corners of the planet. And yet, I want an intermediary. I want someone who's going to sit down with her. and ask her these questions. By the way, Taylor, I mean, we're right here. You want to come on this pod.

We're ready. But I want somebody to actually get us answers about this, because we're getting only the front door and the facade of the house. We're not getting the inner workings. And it is... That's exactly how she wants it in this moment, so that is how it will be.

but there are so many interesting questions around the last year of her life that maybe they'll come out in a documentary someday, maybe they won't, but that explain, you know, they give a whole lot of context for what's going on. So I understand that when you can control the direct consumer message, you don't do it. And I don't blame her one bit for it. But wow, there's a lot of intrigue. Not like, hey, tell me, you know, the intricate details of your personal life. But I do want to know if she dropped in his DMs. I mean, did she slide into his DMs? It kind of seems like that's what happened. Yeah. Go Taylor. But just in the making of this album, when was it actually made? Was the Vault started when we started to hear rumblings of 1989 coming pre-midnights?

What's the relationship between the Vault and Midnights? Like all of those interesting creative questions. Forget the personal life questions. I wish for her to be happy, and it's none of our damn business. There are so many interesting questions about the way that she made this art that her power as a media force now, ironically, just washes away the ability for us to get any of that information. When she needed, at least she'd show up on Fallon,

and he might ask one question of substance before giggling through, you know, the setup for the banana video. Yeah, but you know what, you know what? This is Taylor Swift that we're talking about. Someday she's going to tell us. Someday she's going to unburden herself. It's probably probably a fair bit of it's going to be in song. Yeah.

And I think that eventually we will get context on some of those things. I do think I think you should should give yourself permission to trust your instincts on the timeline in terms of the making of and the relationship between the timeline of Midnights and the timeline of the vault. Because I think that to me, that really holds water. Well, the rest of it,

it's my belief that we're going to hear from her on some of this eventually. The other thing that I think is, you know, I was talking with some of my friends recently and one of my friends just said, like, it's a dark time in the world. And it's nice to just see Taylor Swift out and about and have a silly thing to talk about with your friends.

Like, that to me has been a lift. Yeah. And it is frothy pop culture stuff for sure. But I am very content with this being, you know, just the pap walks and the going out to every new American slash Italian. in restaurant below 14th Street and all of that, like, I'm good with that being the promotion cycle for this. I probably am happier with that than a music video because it's just, it's, it's fun to see you're out living your life and, you know, I hope it doesn't get too intense, but I think it's

in its own way, it's a pretty, it's a pretty sick flex. She does not need traditional media anymore. She hasn't really in a long time, but I think she's, She's been very good at making it part of the equation and using those platforms sporadically. And look, I think sometimes the album, the rollout fits the album, right? Like there was something about Red where she did so much traditional media for that re-release where it kind of fit because her whole vibe was like directing the short video and, you know, it just felt, I don't know, there was something where it was like,

ah, fall, yes, let's go on late night and be written about in magazines and all of that stuff where it just was fitting with the album. And I think now, like, especially 1989, she's bigger now.

She's bigger and also, this is just what 1989 is. It's so associated with, the girl squad and all the photos and her doing stuff and having fun and living her life

and... Yeah, she has the number one album in the country and all she had to do was get out of bed. Go to dinner. Kind of badass. Go have some oysters.

It is kind of badass. Good for Taylor. But there are a lot of creative questions that it cuts out for us and one of those creative questions came from FEP 516. Yep.

Which was, can we dig into more about why Max Martin didn't show up? It's confounding. I agree. I do agree that it's confounding. May I posit a theory as I want to do? Please. So, and a colleague of mine brought this up, which I think is a good point. There has been some funny reporting around Ann Juliet, which is the Max Martin musical that's currently on Broadway.

Having to do with the fact that Max said, Max told the New York Times when he did an interview about the show, very rare interview for Max Martin, he said that no one turned him down to use songs in the musical. But there is not a single Taylor Swift song in the thing. And everyone else is there, right? Like Britney Spears, Katie Perry, the back street and sync stuff,

all the way up to like Ariana and the weekend. It is really all in there. Kelly Clarkson, Pink, all of those big Max Martin hits are in this musical and there's not a single Taylor Swift song. And then add in the fact that the, what the show is about,

spoiler alert, is a version of Romeo and Juliet where Juliet lives, which sounds a little bit like a certain song. by a certain artist? Mm-hmm. So to me, that's an interesting data point in this, because it is a little bit fishy that while he said that no one said, you're not allowed to use my songs,

they wouldn't want to take the opportunity to put a Taylor Swift song in this show if that was available to them. That seems strange. It's either contractual or it's relational. It is super weird that Shelbeck just shows up on Wildest Dream. we've said this. That's the part for me that I... Oh, so he is available.

We're just not using him. And he is willing to come on and work. We're just not doing it. Well, Shelbeck is willing to come on and work. But, I mean, he does a little drum program, you know, a little bit here and there, but he's not producing. Like, she didn't use him.

So I come back to this. Yeah, I mean, I guess the question is like, does Shelbeck equal max, right? Like, are we saying that he's equally capable of sprinkling the secret dust. Here's what I believe. Taylor Swift is surrounded by very, very good lawyers who, I think it's fair to say, generally speaking, they've been very conservative with her and, you know, aired on the side of caution in many, many instances across her business and career. And in this case, I think to make sure that they don't step on the copyrights that she is

re-recording, copyrights of songs that she is re-recording, it would not surprised me at all if they said, you know, because so many of these sounds are synthetic and so much of the art was influenced by Max Martin, let's not bring him back so that we have plausible deniability and credible deniability. And also, you know, it would not surprise me at all if Max had some concerns about what he was legally able to do. All right. That seems, that seems reasonable I do think it's strange that she's not in the musical. I also, you know, another colonel is that Dr. Luke is still really close with, is, you know, working with Max. He's an EP on that show.

Maybe some of the Kesha stuff and Taylor's support of her could have caused friction because clearly Luke is still very much in Max's orbit. I don't know. I don't want to totally speculate, but there are some potential things that could have led to friction. There. Max may also not have been wholly transparent. Okay. I love this question from Mikey. If Travis Kelsey were a Taylor album, what album would he be? I mean, you know what the answer is. So I'll let you say it. I don't necessarily feel like you and I are going to have the... No, you go first. Reputation.

I check it once Then I check it twice What? He's reputation What do you think he is? Okay, make the case to me I think he's lover Lover

What Joe Alwyn is lover Why is he lover? Joe Lerwin is love her First of all Joe is not lover Everything we know about Joe And I say this with truly

no disrespect is that he's like a sort of hipsterish quasi intellectual British dude who likes to play soft piano ditties and takes stylized photography

that he cryptically posts on Instagram sometimes that is not lover those are not lover vibes Why is lover Travis vibes? I mean, I just think... Because it's like exuberant and over the top and there's sort of like an Americana like referencey thing.

And it's sort of goofy. Reputation is all over the place. Reputation is his outfits. It's chaos. It's underappreciated at first. There's some stuff that works. I'm sorry. She's playing a character.

in a lot of the cases. It's appreciated more through time. He is kind of corny in a reputation, like some of the campiness. Right. I can see it. Okay, I see it a little bit more than when you first said it.

I still think he's lover. I just don't think that he has, like, the darkness of reputation is not really Travis's method of presenting himself and his personality to the world. Reputation isn't like the little Humpy, weird dance he does

when he celebrates. Humpty? It's Humpty. Is that an adjective we're using? That's the word for that. Reputation isn't Humpy? I didn't say that.

Reputation is the humpiest album. No, reputation is very humpy, but in a different way. It's Clay Humpy. Potentially. Potentially Taylor's humpiest album. But not in the last. Like, okay, I can't talk about this anymore. You know what I mean.

Pull up. Pull up. Scripple. Scripple? There are a lot of consonants in this, this. Yeah, there were not vows available for this. You know what? This might be S.J. Cripple. I'm sorry.

I'm doing a terrible job with handles today. I apologize to all of our listeners. You're the greatest people. Thank you for asking questions. First weekend back on tour surprise song predictions. I think there's one 1989 vault. Is it over now for sure? And then something else.

The other one's going to be totally out of left field. Some, I mean, unless, do you think that she would go, I don't think she would go double 1989. I think she could. I guess she could. It's the biggest album in the world. I don't know. I think she's going to do one, 1989 and then another.

I'll tell you what she's going to do. She's going to do a 1989 vault song. and then she's going to do whatever Travis requests because he's going to be sitting in the VIP 10 on his spy week with his big ass grin and some chaotic fucking outfit and they're going to stare at each other

and that's going to be the next, you know, set of insane fan videos that make a bunch of edits that may or may not actually reflect the interaction between the two of them. But I mean, all bets are up. He's going to be in Buenos Aires. right?

I don't know. Oh. I think if I were Travis Kelsey, I'd sure want to be. The Kansas City Chief's offense is doing okay. And I wonder, you know, they have a little bit of time off, but I do wonder if there is,

if he's going to feel the need to really kind of buckle down. Well, I mean, to be very close. clear this would be stupid, but like football is sometimes, you know, don't tell them I said this, football can be kind of stupid and I worry that he's going to start getting like a

Is he doing too much stuff? Is he like flying around the world and blah, blah, blah, blah. David Beckham, all the David Beckham stuff that he got when he started dating posh. Yes. Totally. I'm a little worried about it. Are you noticing, I mean, she had the watch party

for the, like, wag watch party at her house in New York. I mean, the best way to meet Taylor Swift is to start dating a Kansas City chief right now. Yeah. I think that's kind of true. She just like, she shows up with a toothbrush on the second date, doesn't she?

I mean, she is all in. She's just, her life is different, you know? I love it. She knows what she wants. And, right. And I think at the same time is like, they don't live in the same place and they have means of travel that,

that most people do not have, obviously, so they can go see each other and do all that stuff. But if you're going to have a long-distance relationship, you kind of have to be a little bit intense about it when you have, when you- I think you're right. But like, he wasn't there, but she's now like- Sure, but when you have an opportunity to do a whole thing and have the- Did she make cookies for that party?

Like, definitively, yes. And she probably made a dip. And she probably made a dip. Yes, absolutely. 100%. Absolutely. And everyone was wearing the gear. and I bet that there were decorations.

You think anybody said, no, sorry, I can't come to Taylor Swift's apartment? No. No. Did anybody turn down the invite? Absolutely not. There's, I would be so, I wonder if anyone has ever turned down an invitation to Taylor Swift's apartment.

That just doesn't seem like something one does. Brittany Mahomes organized this. Yeah, let's talk about that for one second. just because it's in my head. Okay. I think Taylor sees a lot of herself in Brittany Mahomes. Like, I think the hate

that has been bestowed upon Britney Mahomes, like, just sort of historically. Like, Taylor is taking her out with Gigi Hadid and Selena she's elevated this woman who, I think, you know, I haven't followed it all that closely. Like, Jackson Mahomes seems like super annoying.

But, like, you know, that's just her brother. and whatever. She defends her brother. And I've heard, you know, he's got some legal issues and there's some, you know, legitimate concerns about all of that for sure. I feel comfortable saying this about Jackson Mahomes, which like, let's just be clear about how many degrees of separation we have here. This is the brother of a guy who plays football with Taylor's boyfriend and the brother-in-law of her friend. It's not exactly like, this is not exactly the Maddie Healy backlash, right? Like, if Jackson Mahomes starts regularly exiting Taylor Swift's apartment, then maybe, yes, we have a conversation about some of the judgment. I am sure that when Jackson Mahomes gets within 15 feet of her, tree pain is like watching.

Yeah, so are the security guards. Totally. And that's fine. But I do think she's making an intentional statement by holding her hand and bringing her alongside some of the most famous, beautiful women in the world. Because, by the way, some of the criticism of Brittany Mahomes was she's not cute enough for him.

And by the way, that's a voice that I just made that could have been male or female. Like, she's not pretty enough. Like, there's a lot of that kind of thing. and she has elevated this woman and said, you know, she's my friend and is holding her hand walking out of enormously hard to get into restaurants and back into her apartment and everything else. I mean, I think it's a very lovely statement that, again,

she's using her platform and her power to send a message. I hope people sort of needle that out and pay attention. Yeah, everybody should lay the fuck off, Brittany. Like, it's always been a weird. Yeah. And let them do their nerdy-ass hands. Again, Taylor Swift is not a normal person. She doesn't exist in a plane of normalcy in her life.

And all of us have done that to her. So, yeah, are there going to be some weird fucking handshakes? Probably, let her do it. She's just having fun. I like the one of the very few moments in which she is being entertained instead of her having to entertain the world. And that includes her walking out of these restaurants. She knows she's on stage.

She's wearing the rings for you. She's putting the outfits on. She's putting on the stella. Like, that's her entertaining you. I think part of what's so fun about this for her is when she's in the damn box, she's being entertained. Yeah, well, she, I mean, I don't know. The relationship between, she's also entertaining a little bit when she's doing that.

And I think she knows that and that's fine. You're right. You're right. But let her fan girl. I do think, I think she is having a lot of fun being, you know, and I think, like, look, I think by proxy, there's a lot of women who are sort of enjoying, like, oh, we can sort of follow, like, we're going to follow Travis and see what happens. And obviously, there are hordes of women who have been doing this all along and have absolutely no need for a pop star to date of football player to be paying attention. I'm one of them, whatever.

But also, it's a totally legitimate experience to be like, I don't care about this sport, but it's sort of fun to like, like it almost feels like being in college where you just sort of go to games because you have a school spirit and it's fun and it's silly and like she is I think enjoying that experience and that is so her right

and it's fall it's a good fall activity yeah I'm having fun with it I am too uh okay important question from

go-tif-go. What do you do in your four-year-old Huge Taylor fan That's Go-Tif-Go. Go-Tif-Go. Okay, go-Tif-Go. Go-Tif-Go.

What do you do when your four-year-old Huge Taylor fan has decided her Christmas album is his favorite? Yeah, you lean into Christmas Tree Farm.

In my heart is a Christmas tree farm where the people would come make, just load it. Okay, Christmas Tree Farm is not on the Christmas album. I know.

I know. I know. No, but you introduce him to Christmas Tree Farm because that is a badass Taylor Swift song. And you just let him run with it. Let's go. He will evolve through time. Here's the thing. I got girls who are 19 and 17 right now. And they, when I started trying to force feed the music as little girls, they didn't grab onto it in the way that I was hoping. But when you just kind of leave stuff around their rooms, that's when they start to listen. It becomes their own. It has to be their own idea.

And then they'll discover things. And then their Spotify feeds, guess what, start to feed them other stuff. And then before you know it, they're taking you to Boy Genius on Halloween like happened for me. So go with it. It's great. Yeah. Also, I do. That's a good recommendation.

Add Christmas Tree Farm to the playlist. Just do a playlist with the album plus Christmas Tree Farm. A little bread from it. Maybe throw in a little bit of Evermore there because someone claim that that's a Christmas album. I can hear an argument for wanting to diversify from just the tracks on the Christmas album, but have fun with it.

Let him go ham with it. I love it. Spotify algorithm will solve those problems for you. Justine. How responsible do you think Mama Swift is for holding back fault tracks. Andrea, I hear that unbuttoned my blouse slide and go, absolutely not. Was it?

Do you think that was a discussion? I do not. I don't think that, I don't think Taylor's mom, and obviously I have no idea. I don't think Taylor's mom has ever told her she couldn't release something. I do think that Taylor has probably, as I think, think anyone would made a decision or two based on, oh, God, I just don't want to deal with what my mom's going to say about this. Yeah, that's not a new thing. Taylor's all this time. I mean, that's why, like, if we graph the discussions of sexual innuendo, direct conversation

about sex, lyrical conversation about sex, drinking, drug use, or at least references to high, like, it's up and to the right. She's slowly warmed up the gong on all this. Next question. From Alina. I thought this was well phrased. What the F did Harold do? What do you think, Nora?

Here's what I think. I think that that 1989, 1989 is a situation ship album. And, you know, was there some huge sin? I don't know. But I am sort of amused and sort of charmed and think there's something very honest about hearing all of this sort of like emotionally wrenching content about a relationship that maybe was like only kind of, you know, that wasn't that long and was very on and off.

Because it's a good, sometimes those things are the most intense. And it seems like, as one of my friends put it, she is a boyfriend girl and being in a situation ship probably didn't go great. Yeah. That's what I think. I think that's right. I think that's right.

I think she, I think she, just like Tom Brady said that he used to make up reasons to get angry. so that it would fuel his competitive fire, I feel like she taps into these things and makes them as big of a deal as she possibly can to fuel her creative fire. That I disagree with. I think that happens organically.

I think when you're on uncertain ground in a relationship, it becomes that big, completely naturally. And I also think that sometimes those are the hurt feelings or sore spots that last the longest. Because when you get over them, then you still have the little kernel of like,

in some ways, I never had anything really to be mad about. But also that was shitty. You don't think any of this is performative or hyperbolic? Fundamentally, no. Do I think that she is, you know, do I think that she ever? takes artistic license to make a moment something a little extra, sure. I mean,

I don't mean for this to be like, and obviously, who knows, but like, I don't think, I think about jumping off of very tall some things is intended to communicate. I was deeply hurt and depressed to the point of seriously contemplating suicide. I don't think that that is what she is trying to communicate artistically. I think she is successful in doing that in a way that conveys just the emotional stakes building, but in a way that's not quite so dark and quite so serious. So I think there are moments like that that are true in terms of taking some artistic license or whatever you want to call it. But no, in general, I think that these are real emotions.

I don't question if the emotions are real. I'm just questioning whether on some of these songs across this album, if she created a bubble, if she tapped because it fueled that creative fire, if she really made the most, maybe there was a smaller flame that she turned into a bonfire in service of the art. I think uncertainty and anxiety in a relationship would do that without in like her needing to have any sort of intention for it because if you don't know what's up between you and someone,

you think about it all the fucking time. Yeah. And that's what I get from this is that she just was completely where do we stand? What does this mean? What is this? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. At all times.

And it, it begat a lot of content. An important question from Sirlin's Kate. Do you guys like acid rock? Nathan, do you like acid rock? I'm into acid rock. Yeah, of course you are. Why wouldn't I be?

I do. Here's what I will say. I've never been on a mega yacht. I think I would be fine with that. I would rather the important men not be there, but that I can get behind. I don't really, like, tell me three bands that you think of as acid rock. This is, okay.

Can you answer that question? Because I have the same one. Like, I'm unclear exactly what this genre or subgenre communicates. I mean, I think it is rock that you listen to on acid, which was like Jerry Garcia's definition. But I mean, I think... Oh, okay. Yeah. Like, it's basically an LSD reference.

And so I think of it as like Hendricks and... Purple Hays. I think of it as... Do you think of it as like The Grateful Dad? Sit out and running, but I take my time. A friend of the devil is a tree

into my hat. Potentially, yeah. But those are too, that's not really... Those are not the same genre. So... Right.

I'm more in the like Steppenwolf, like Jimmy Hendrix, Led Zeppelin. If there's a bustle That kind of stuff. Okay, I'm a little bit more into that than I am into the Grateful Dead. But either way, this is, this is not.

I think the great, I don't think Grateful Dead count as acid rock. I don't. Okay. All right. No, I think they're, there are this long line of sort of jam band. That's, it's a very different song structure. It's a very different musical experience. But it does have, I mean, the drug thing. There's a lot of acid there, but I mean, you know.

There's a lot of acid and a little bit of rock. Yeah. Heavy on the acid, light on the rock. Okay. We're going to finish up rapid fire, but I want to get to these questions because they're important to me. Jess Linen asks,

if you were going to add punctuation to any other Taylor Swift song, what would it be? Would you like for me to run through the songs that include punctuation? Yes. I knew you were trouble, has a period at the end.

I feel like that gets underrated. That's a really good. Interesting. Elipses are on ready for it. Are you ready for it? Question. Can I ask you a question? Come back, be here.

And so it goes. There are, of course, exclamation points on me and slut. Boo. Question marks on ready for it, question. and is it over now? Slut has both an exclamation point and quotation marks.

It is the only Taylor Swift song with quotation marks. And then Mary's song, oh, my, my, my, has parentheses. I am leaving out commas, apostrophes, hyphens, and ampersands because I just don't think those count. Well, and all of the parentheses around Taylor's versions. Right, of course. So what would you do? Huh.

I mean, I would just add three exclamation, points to the end of Christmas tree farm. Christmas tree farm! I love that. That's a really good one. I do kind of wish when she was in her lowercase era, there was probably an opportunity for one just like absolutely silly piece of like the little squiggle line, like doing some real chat speak.

stuff. It wouldn't have been funny. I think the best use of punctuation is that period at the end of I knew your trouble. I'm really into that. What about, yeah. Like question mark after

all too well. That wouldn't work. That's a terrible idea. All too well. Taylor's version, 10 minute version, exclamation point, exclamation point question mark? Question mark after Babe.

Babe? Babe? Babe? Babe? Babe? You up? All right. Rachel Fisher, which will come first?

Reputation or TS11, aka, will she follow her trend of two re-records and then a new album? So we kind of hypothesized. Like, let's stick with the idea of rep in February or whatever, you know, after the holidays. If that happens, when are we getting a little? another album. I think next fall, when she's back in the U.S., if it's going to happen. She's going to continue the two-year trend. Yeah, I think I agree.

I just don't see how it could be done before then. Okay. She'll be rolling. I don't think she wants to launch formally into another era while she is still doing the era's tour. Because then it's, you know, I don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't rip up the set list, but what do you do with the new stuff? Yeah. I mean, maybe she's that crazy and she's going to give us something, but she is entering a new era in her personal life. I think she will draw this whole sort of celebration of

the eras to a close. There will be a washing and a reset, and whatever comes next will be something new and different. I don't see her, just in her own mind being able to move into something totally knew. She's a lot going on. Shurgolan 26. Do you think she wrote Slut before Beyonce's Drunken Love came out? What do you think, Nor? I don't. So Harry and Taylor met in March of 2012. The Sad Boat Girl pick was just after New Year's 2013. Drunken Love came out on December 17th, 2013. So if she wrote it, and Slut is fairly present tense.

So I guess there's some possibility that if she wrote it really amidst the relationship, then that would have happened. But if she wrote it afterwards, I guess she's got, you know, she had the better part of a year. But I don't know. I just think it's possible. It feels like such a odd phrase for her to use that for some reason to me, it seems like it would have had to have lost. in her head from somewhere. But it, you know what? Actually, it's totally possible.

I think it's an intentional reference, given the timing of these things. Probably a song that was part of the, you know, that was sort of embedded into the DNA of the emotions that she conjures up in that song. All right. Kelsey Parker. Thoughts on the beachification

of 1989 Taylor's version instead of the NYC aesthetic of the original. Yeah, where are you on this? So, I'm, this, it's a really good question, and we got it from multiple people. So clearly this is impacting people. This whole re-release still feels very New York to me, especially because the beach that it's giving is Rhode Island Beach. And that to me is like, here's close to New York and therefore, what do you mean? That is just like, first of all, she's out and about in the city like every weekend.

So it's not as though Taylor is not embodying the spirit of New York right now. Yeah. I think that is, to me, that is more powerful than some extra seagulls. It's not as though the original album art was referential to the city. So I think having that stuff be like on the beach somewhere is not sort of replacing something. And again, like, here's the thing about New Yorkers with means. Most of them are never fucking here. They're popping to Westerly for the weekend and coming back and going to the Hamptons and doing all the stuff.

And I love this city so dearly. I'm so happy to call it my home. But also, a lot of New Yorkers spend a lot of time outside of New York. Fair enough. So to me, it fits into that. Yeah. It is a very interesting observation, though, because I think about this album. It's a very east coast album.

It's a very east coast album. It's probably a little bit more of like an East Coast album now, as opposed to a very specifically New York album. But I still think of it as very New York Central. Okay. Also, sometimes, I mean, we have sequels. Yeah. I just want to say.

I'll come back to my theory on this. Okay. Go look at the Ryan Adams cover of his cover of 1989. And I think there is a non-zero chance that in addition to reclaiming her art, she also reclaimed that vibe that he stole. That's fucking badass with the pain. That's fucking badass if she did that. I love that.

I'm into it. Fuck yeah. Okay, question from Justine. How would pop culture history be different if Is It Over Now closed the original 1989 instead of Clean? I love Clean. Clean's one of my favorite songs on 1989. I do too. Clean, as much as I love, Is It Over Now, I think she made the right choice.

I do think if Is It Over Now closed the original album, we probably would have understood a little bit more of the centrism of it all. Yes. But Clean should have ended this album. It is the perfect ending to this album.

Don't mess with it. Okay. And for the perfect ending to this podcast, this is a question I was most excited to ask you. From R. Basha 707. If you could ask Taylor

one question about this album, what would it be? Man. I mean, I've introduced a number on this pod. already. I mean, one is, did you reach out to try to get Harry Styles to participate? Like, did she go with the bit? Another is what is the sequence of this vault and Midnights? Those are the two most burning questions that I have about this album. Interesting. To me, the two most burning are the hairy feature question and the Max Martin question. I am satisfied with your theory on Midnights. I'm sort of accepting that into my life as canon, so I wouldn't feel as much of a need to ask that one. I think those... The Max's question is very interesting. Why? What the hell? What are we doing? Just what's happening? And that's probably, I will say, that's the question I would ask with my head, with my head.

my heart, the question I would ask would be, is Harry really that bad of a driver? Yeah, I would, I might ask, can there be a slap part too? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's not really a question about people. It's not a, yeah. Yeah.

All right. Nathan, I've enjoyed this. Yeah, me too. I just want to wrap up by saying one thing that is unequivocal truth. And to our friend who is introducing her four-year-old son to the Taylor Swift Christmas album, I just want to reiterate, it is November. And that means it is time for the true Taylor Swift Christmas album, which is Evermore. just a damn season.

All right. It's ever more season. No more. It's ever more season. It's ever more season. This has been every single album. I'm Nora Prudziotti. As always, he is Nathan Hubbard.

Thank you to time. It's a Christmas album. This episode and to you for listening. We'll talk to you. It's a holiday album.