Every Single Album - 'Bangerz' | Every Single Album: Miley Cyrus

Episode Date: May 1, 2025

Nora and Nathan talk about one of the most divisive Miley Cyrus albums: 'Bangerz.' They discuss the lasting cultural impact of Miley's 2013 VMAs performance with Robin Thicke (1:00), whether "We Can't Stop" or "Wrecking Ball" is the better song (20:22), and the major hip-hop influences on this album (39:48). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, my birdie buddies, my par-saving pals. My eagle enthusiast, it's Joe House here. Major season is finally upon us. The Masters, the PGA Championship, the U.S. Open, the Open Championship, and Fairway Rowan is here to break down all of the storylines. Offer a little help on those betting cards for every single major this golf season. Join me and our In-Connor. comparable accomplice, our tour boots on the ground.

Nathan Hubbard, as we guide you from Augusta all the way to Northern Ireland, Royal Port Rush. Away we go. Welcome to every single album, Miley Cyrus. I'm Nora Princeati, and as always, I am joined by Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, are you ready to talk about bangers? Fucking bangers. We've talked about bangers on this podcast before.

But we've never talked about bangers on this podcast before in the Miley Cyrus sense, the Miley Cyrus of it all, as some might say. Fucking bangers. We get our first F word from Miley. I can always count on you to be counting, to be doing the stats related to who's dropping F bombs in song. That's very good. Nine times she drops it on bangers.

Very good. That's great. Do you have them ranked? Do you have your favorite? No. where is this album rank for you so far? I mean, we've been talking through the course of this series about how Miley kept trying to punch her way out of the Matrix

and break free from all that constrained her, maybe in her family, maybe in her personal relationships, maybe in her business relationships with Disney. Well, she has broken free on bangers, Nora. Yeah, for sure. She's swinging from side to side from the rooftops on the wrap, packing ball. Where does this album rank for me in terms of what we've talked about so far? It's

really hard to put this album in the same context as like Meet Miley Cyrus. Yeah, that's what I want to know. Like what was the experience for you as like a Miley fan of having this drop? You know, I can answer that question in the sense. And actually I think this is something that I wanted to talk to about as we go through here. What I remember experiencing was two of the singles We Can't Stop in Wrecking Ball. I remember the VMAs.

I remember the haircut. Yeah. I remember the foam finger and the Robin Thick and the hoopla. Impossible to forget. Massive cultural moment of the 2010s in hindsight. No, like truly one of the biggest

And I do, I think it's interesting because like I processed this so much as an era. But I don't know how much in its time I even thought of bangers as like an album. It was just sort of this collection of songs with these two, I think, iconic like totems in the Miley discography in those two singles. In anybody's discography. In anybody's. And it had this new aesthetic and this new sort of Miley has been unleashed and this is what she wants to,

this is a statement that she wants to make with that energy and that permission structure. And I guess I just remember processing. Well, lack of need for permission. There you go. A structure in and of itself. So I remember processing.

it so much more as like the evolution of Miley Cyrus as a person and as a public figure. Yeah. More than like, oh, what's the story that's being told on this album? How do these songs all fit together as a body of work? And so it's funny because like some of this is so nostalgic and some of this is so like, who can forget the 2013 VMAs of it all and the foam finger and the teddy bears and all of that. and then some of it to me is like I feel like I'm sort of sinking my

big Sean was on this album B IG shine down one period Detroit player wag I get my barri on on a all night flight to an island I'll be gone in the morning I don't even need to carry on Yeah like I'm sinking my teeth into the big Sean feature for what feels like the first time

even though like I don't think it is Is that how it feels to you? No I mean look the overarching question that I have about this album and era is how much of this was Miley in control and making intentional choices, how much of it was her spiraling a bit

because of her breakup and public criticism, how much of it is her rebelling against the Disney constraints and the previous attempts that hadn't really fully shaken her loose? Like how much of this is actually Miley versus her playing a character? I don't know. Even to this day, I don't know. know. Well, because I think it's not one or the other. I think, and I imagine she is still unpacking

some of this is like, I think this is very authentic. I think a lot of that, it's funny, one thing that I really appreciate about her, and I think that makes her come through as a personality so strongly and like she just seems like a fun person to hang out with, is that even when you go back and you read, like she did a Rolling Stone profile a little bit after this album came out, she ends up skydiving with the writer. Like, it's totally crazy. But, but, But she's talking about her reaction to the controversy. And she is shockingly lucid about saying, like, I can't believe people think that that's, like, sexy. If I was trying to be sexy, I would have done it totally differently.

She is like, you know, obviously I think we'll talk about some of the accusations of cultural appropriation and how she managed some of the aesthetics that she was playing with. And I don't think that every single piece of it was artful. But I do think that she was very aware of what she was doing and the choices that she was making even as it was happening. At the same time, I do think that it's probably hard when she had spent so long feeling cooped up by Disney to disentangle what is just the desire to rebel after that experience. and what is who Miley Cyrus wants to be as an artist like who would she be if she hadn't had that experience

as Hannah Montana? It's an impossible question because we'll never know but I think those two things like I don't think she was pushed into doing something that she wasn't interested in doing but I think she was interested

in doing a lot of things because she was reacting. Yeah, it's like it's 2013 when this album comes out. For five solid years, we've been hearing about Miley Cyrus trying to break free from the shackles of Hannah Montana. It's like, finally she was just like,

brah! Like, exploded. And this giant whirlwind nuclear bomb, and that's what this was. I mean, what I remember, I'm with you. Like, I remember the songs being super strong. And I do think that we can't stop and Wrecking Ball are two that just exist on your hits of the 2010s. Like big ass songs that, I mean, it's almost inconceivable that can't be tamed as the album that

came before this, right? Now it was three years or whatever, the better part of three years. But if this was possible, it's just so hard to believe that can't be. tamed actually is a thing. And those two songs obviously live alongside party in the USA and a few others as the, as you said, the canon, this sort of iconic stuff. But I just remember, I remember the VMA performance. And I have gone back now. It's actually hard to find that online. Yeah, it does seem like someone's done some scrubbing, perhaps. Someone's really trying to get rid of it. But I've gone back and watched it. And like, in hindsight, I sort of realized that my reaction was,

it was to the physical change that she'd undergone, right? It was the haircut. And it was the like tongue out, you know, the sort of, she was playing a character up there, I think. Yeah. And, and it was designed to shock. And of course, in hindsight, like, that's why I want to know, because in hindsight, it cut off whatever was left of the attachment to Hannah Montana. There, she was fully free from that part of her life and that part of her brand.

But in 2025, if you go back and look at it, it ain't that big of a deal. No, I mean... The weirdest shit she does is, while Robin Thick is playing some other song that no one ever will remember or listen to, she's dancing with the band pretty suggestively.

I don't even know if she was supposed to be on stage at that point. But like this performance, we have seen much raunchy or shit on television in the 12 years that followed. And I have to say, Miley kind of opened the door for that. Yeah. It was, I think unequivocally a watershed moment in terms of just the level of discourse

that can be created in the social media era based off a performance like that. I read something where, so the Beyonce halftime performance up to that VMAs had been the most tweeted about cultural event ever. And then Miley surpassed that. At one point,

it was like 300,000 tweets per minute. Is that even possible? Yeah, 300,000 tweets about Miley Cyrus, quote unquote, torquette. on Robin Thick per minute. I had just gotten to Twitter. And it was a massive, massive moment.

Like, the biggest things that happened to that company on the platform, it was the Ellen Oscars picture with all the famous people, Julia Roberts in that shit, Brad Pitt. Like, do you remember that that went out and whenever? The Ellen selfie. Yeah, it was when Obama won the second term, it was anything around the World Cup is just massive on Twitter. And like this smiley moment was one where it was just like the walls were shaking with all of the energy and velocity of tweets as the servers were trying to manage the volume.

It was a really, really big moment. Well, because it was the most, like it's that peak of the social internet has become huge. So everybody is connected. It is before the algorithms start to super-teachy. take over and then silo people back into their little holes. So, like, people are so connected online with the ability to post and joke and overreact and talk about stuff. And, like, I don't know that it is, it's funny.

I said that it was a watershed moment. And I believe that in some ways, just in terms of, like, the types of stories that become cultural fodder in that way. Yeah. But I actually don't think that anything like that will ever happen again in some ways, just in terms of the amount of. people who were sort of in this online town square together and knew that they were there together to be able to react to something like that, which I think explains some of the fervor of it.

Well, the online discourse had seeped its way into the art, and it seeps its way into the art on this album, doesn't it? We've got a song that's got a hashtag. She says, L-O-L is like that that's actually a lyric. Then I accidentally saw a few things in yourself. I even L-O-L. So all of that sort of Twitter-ish vernacular has seeped into actually the art itself. And so it was the platform that people shared moments like this on. I'm sure we'll dissect it in more detail that that moment itself. I still can't. I mean, I do think in hindsight it wasn't that big a deal.

But boy, she took, I mean, it is on. its own kind of cringy. Like, it is... I find the Robin Thick portion of it incredibly cringy. Like when she is, and that is not to say that Miley Cyrus is uniquely responsible for that, right? Like, and one of the things that she said in that Rolling Stone article that I thought was astute and was kind of like, wow, it's interesting that this 20 year old in the moment

going through all this shit is like still able to identify this is that he didn't get called out at all and it was all her. Oh, it's coming though. Well, yeah, of course. Just wait until we get to Conspiracy Corner on this episode. Okay, okay. Okay, now I'm excited. Now I'm excited.

But I don't think, like, the We Can't Stop part, I found, like, you know, it's goofy more than it's provocative. Like, almost like Japanese animation character bear stuff. Yeah, the little text. Betty bears. And she's doing the faces that seem to be in line with the, like, creative direction, not just Miley sticking out her tongue like that. Well, that's how I vaguely remember feeling a little bit like, not like what's the big deal? Because I think blurred lines in and of itself already felt controversial in a way where, like, I kind of understood how some of that performance had spun off

into this sort of like culture war thing about, you know, what is this, is this performance okay or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Her part, the we can't stop part, is basically mimicking the music video. It is basically like the teddy bears are in the music video, the, you know, two little bun, little animal ear hairdo.

Like that is in the music video. This like party hearty, we're, you know, all fucked up and having fun with our friends. friend's vibe to it is completely present in the music video. So I think in that sense, it felt like, yeah, like we've already seen this. This has already happened. It's a good performance, I think, in some ways. Like, it's, it is interesting to watch. It's captivating. I think the conversation around is she using these black female backup dancers and singers

as props? Is there a sexualized element of how their bodies are being presented that's a little bit tough. I think all of that is fair. I'm sure that Miley would have some changes to how she went about this era. I actually think it does, like, I was surprised when I went back to watch it earlier today and was like, like, the backup dancers are really in the background. You're not presented with that visually as starkly as I remembered it being. It really does feel kind of like big whoop, but it was not, that was not how people responded. Well, and it's weird because as we get to, I'm to some of the categories. I mean, we can't stop is an anthem of inclusion, right?

I mean, it is ostensibly about everyone is there and allowed and welcome. So I don't know. And in a lot of ways, in hindsight, again, historically, the theme and purpose and point of that song, it was sort of antithetical to what Blurred Lyons was sort of all about. Yes. I think that's true. And again, I think there are some choices that they probably played it a little fast and loose with. And when I say they, I don't totally know if I mean Miley, if I mean management, if I mean somebody from the VMAs who thought they had a cool idea. I do think that we can extend her the grace of some allowed messiness at the age of 20. Before we do the categories, I want to do a quick, I felt like it was helpful last week when we did just a little bit of time. line. So I want to just like set us within the context. So bangers, 2013. What a time.

It has been three years since Can't Be Tamed as we discussed. At first, she finishes the contract with Disney and she says that she's going to focus on this movie career. She's not really thinking about music. She has roles in two movies in 2012, L.O.L. and so undercover. And she has a voice acting part in Hotel Transylvania. But she gets five. because she's with Liam and it's his birthday and she bought him a cake shaped his penis. And there was a photo of herself licking it. So she got fired from a voice acting part for that? Yes.

How was LOL as a movie? I can't speak to that personally. I don't think many people can. And so I think some of that might be an indication of why she shifted back to music. Yeah. So all that happens. And then at some point, she buzzes off the sides of her hair. And she starts sharing in snippets.

She actually tweet one of the first ways people learned about this was a fan tweeted something like, oh, Miley, you're not in these movies. Why? And she responded, like, I just want to focus on my music this year. So it starts to, you know, bubble up that she's going to get back to making music again. Gets a new label, starts working on this album. she is introduced to the producer Mike Will, who is a Southern hip hop producer. He's coming up out of Atlanta.

He's doing a lot of like trap beats. He's especially working a lot with future and kind of getting big, working with future. He's done a little bit of pop crossover, particularly the song, Pour It Up for Rihanna. Throw it up, do it up. Watch it all fall out. Pull it up, pull it up. Let's all we ball out. But like, he's,

is making an entry into being in pop spaces as well as hip hop. Miley, and to your point about whose idea was what, this is where the timeline, I don't know exactly what happened before what, but at some point, Miley is expressing an interest and focusing on this kind of like southern rural party music that merges a lot of country and hip hop, both types of music that are really having a moment. Sometimes this comes across as Miley saying, I want to sound black on my next record. And she talks a lot about her homies and twerking.

And I have some issues with the grammar on this album. Yeah. No, yeah. It's like I'm sure there are some moments here that she does. not stand by. I also do think that it is critical to recognize that the interplay of those genres and both of those genres, especially for someone like Miley, you know, from Tennessee, would have been what she heard when she was going out and like would have been a lot of what she was listening to when she was having fun with her friends or at a party. So I think

there is some authenticity there. And there are also some things that, you know, we may be cringe at in hindsight. but she's really excited about she loves working with Mike Will, she's really excited about the sound. We can talk about how consistent that sound is through the album because what it actually turns into is

they work on a lot of things that play with a lot of different genres and a lot of different sounds, but they make an album. And in June of 2013, we can't stop, comes out as the first single. They put the music video out.

By the way, I had forgotten I remembered almost everything about this music video except for how much fucking SponCon is in it. Jesus. There is those, Nathan, you're not, this is not going to mean anything to you, but it's going to mean something to a lot of people listening to this. You know those like EOS, EOS,

little like circular chapsticks, the little pod chapsticks. Those things are all over. Those are all over the We Can't Stop music video. Miley is like, pulling the taxidermized animals around the party floor. And then she's like, oh, my lips are chapped. I got to put on my EO slip ball.

Anyway. That's June. In August, Recking Ball is released as the second single. It comes out the night of the VME's performance of We Can't Stop and Blurred Lines. And then about a month after that, so after the whole hoopla, is when the album comes out. So it's not, like, first and foremost, I wanted to offer that as context, but first and foremost, to make the point that the album is not out until after all of this happens. Right. And which is certainly why it went to number one.

But there's also some subtle context that is required as you listen through this album, which is that she is in the throes of the on and again, off again relationship with Liam Hemsworth, right? he of the penis cake, yes. And that this album starts with a fairly powerful, chill love ballad. And it ends with her basically screaming the lines from scripture that get read at most weddings in the song Someone Else, right?

Yep. And it is, there's a lot in between here. that implies she was cheated on, that implies she's given up on love. So we had some forays into her emotional feelings, her romantic emotional feelings from her relationship with Nick Jonas and maybe a few others and some earlier things.

But it was almost a shocker to hear her talk about kissing in earlier albums. This one, it feels like she's lived a whole life of romantic heartbreak and devastation by the time you're finished. And that to me is the, it's the confusing part of this album, which is that if you're not careful, you won't take it very seriously. Because there's some ridiculousness here that just stands out as so different than what you've heard before.

As you said, is there appropriation happening? Does she really belong in this culture? Does she understand this culture? Is it manufactured? Is this her? There's all those things. You have these two giant songs that defy any genre or place. They're just huge songs.

But if you'd listen more deeply, even within some songs where there's ridiculous lyrics about whatever, money, love party. Like, there's some real stuff on every song where Miley speaks the truth. I like Love Money Party. Oh, my God. Shoot it into the sun. Shoot it into the sun. But in almost every one of these songs, she takes some,

even if it's just a few stanzas, to speak the truth about what's going on for her. So it has some depth. It just seems to hide behind the trees of a lot of performative stuff that I think, again, in hindsight, was certainly designed to create controversy,

was intentional in, in forcing you to talk about it in the moment in which we all as a society were gravitating to these platforms to just have moments talking about stuff and she gave it to us. For sure. And that's why I think,

you know, and I imagine that you and I will be in similar places on this. I put Wrecking Ball. it's both the biggest hit and it's the best song. And in some ways when we talk about the quality of it, the best part of it, there's pieces of my heart that want to say that it's we can't stop. But I think the thing about Wrecking Ball is that it has an emotional depth and just a potency where there's something really raw and real and deeply, deeply felt that

comes through that song in the way that she sings it, where you can miss the little snippets of her life and her relationship that she's weaving into some of these moments, including in some ridiculous songs. You can't really miss Wrecking Ball. You can't miss that the person singing that has some pathos, has some maturity, and has been through something, and something that doesn't feel like. what we would ascribe to a Disney Channel star. So, you know, they were both huge.

Wrecking Ball becomes her first number one. We Can't Stop has gone on to be a slightly bigger streaming song, but they're both pretty big. I do think that it has to go to Wrecking Ball just because of that, that emotional component to it. So I'm with you on Wrecking Ball being the bigger song. my problem with it is

it was supposed to be for Beyonce well we can't stop was supposed to be for Rihanna but we can't stop is the better song I think I really I can't believe I thought there was no chance you were going to say that

I really believe it I love I think that the melodies in the verse show themselves again in Hamilton later on. Gosh. I think... Kaya, good luck with that one. Everyone, there are moments that the words don't reach.

There is suffering too terrible to name. I really do. It is melodically my favorite. It has... I just think it's the better song. Wrecking Ball is cool. And I get it. But I do think 10 people could have sang Wrecking Ball.

Oh, I don't agree with that. So I don't want to fight you on this too hard. Okay, 10 people in the universe could have sang Wrecking Ball. That I can get behind. Yeah. There's something about we can't stop that I think it sounds like the close cousin to party in the USA. you can sing the chorus to party in the USA over, we can't stop.

And I literally think it's like secretly the love child of like the producers and party in the USA. And so it's sort of an evolution of that as opposed to a rejection of everything that she's done before. Sly. Yeah. And I get that Dr. Luke is the one who produced Wrecking Ball. But yeah, to me, it just, there's something about it that is time.

timeless that just absolutely sticks with me. It's one of those songs, there's a rare set of songs that when I hear them, I could listen to it 150 times and I never get tired of it. And that list of songs, there's probably 50 or 100 that I just, for whatever reason, you can play it and I'm never like, oh, fuck, I've heard it, I'm done. And there's great songs out there that I love and that I can hear intermittently. But if I hear too much, I'm kind of like, it's enough. This one, every time it comes on, yes. It is neck and neck to me. I love them both. I do, you know, this is an album that as we've talked about is about two songs, although I do want to hear if there are any deeper cuts here that resonate with you. I just think, you know, in some ways,

we can't stop. I definitely listen to it more. It might be my favorite of the two. But I do think that Wrecking Ball hit a note that just was new in the evolution of Miley Cyrus being taken seriously as an adult artist, not adult in terms of provocation, not adult in terms of sex or anything like that. Well, she's naked on the Wrecking Ball. Yeah, but I don't think that, I really think that it is, it speaks to the power of the song that, like, you hear the. feeling more than you're thinking about being naked on the wrecking ball. Well, and she's full on sobbing in the video and moments. And I don't know if that's her acting or if that's just like she tapped into whatever was going on. I actually, I think she's spoken about this and I think her dog had died. Oh, boy. And she was sad. Well, maybe that's what

she tapped into. I'm not sure that's what the lyrical part of the song was about. No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just, I think they're real tears is what I'm saying. I do think that the haircut and the makeup and the shielded nudity and the emotional part of this video, which is one of the most viewed ever, had a lot to do with the size of the song. And again, I think it's the biggest one. I do. I just think we can't stop better, man. I'm not trying to fight you on anything about we can't stop. But I do think Rocking Ball would have been huge no matter what. And I don't think, I think it's about the exact moment when the chorus starts and she says, I came in like a wrecking ball and the combination of the power and then that crackle in her vocal.

Maybe there's 10 people in total on planet Earth that can do it, but there's only 10 in Miley Cyrus is one of them. Yeah. I don't, there was something about, there's also something about we can't stop. What's the way to say it? Like she's almost, she's, she's, slightly out of place. Like, I believe it. It feels like... Yeah. I mean, I love the thing that my favorite,

this is my... I actually put this in best lyric, even though it's such a little tidbit. So I'm giving that up, but the we run things, things don't run we. Oh my God. It's like that's that me espresso.

Like something about it being a little weird, you're mad because you're mad about the grammar, but something about it being just a little off. It makes it an earworm. It gets in your head. You're like, why did she say it like that? It's a snare that comes in on the two and the four before the line in the bathroom line. Like, it's fucking cool.

Like, you got to... No, I'm so mad that you're getting to argue for, like, the party anthem, and I'm arguing for the emotional gut-wrenching song. Like, this is totally twisted. But it also just, like, you think Adorio is the most out-of-place song on this album. because it's nothing like what's to follow. You get, we can't stop right there. And there is this tension.

Like, oh, wait, Miley's doing drugs. I don't care what anybody says. She's talking about cocaine. She's talking about Molly. It just, she is a, feels like a, feels like she's driving somebody else's car. And that's part of the party social insecurity, but I'm still confident and we're together. But I need the, just the part of. of the social anxiety disguised as confidence party stuff that Miley was exhibiting in this moment,

but that comes through on the song. There's something about that tension that I just love. Well, I do think it's not, it comes through really well in the video too, because it's not the coolest party ever. It's a fun party, but like it's weird. Again, there's there's taxidermized stuff animals all over the place, and it's not, It's not this is the most wild and crazy cool kids party ever. It's this is some weirdos getting fucked up together and having the time of their lives. And I think that feels right for where she's coming from. And some of those little musical off-kilter moments I think really fit into that.

I love, we can't stop. I'm arguing for a special quality to wrecking ball. just as something a little bit she hasn't replicated it. But we can't stop. I mean, I want to talk to you a little bit about, forget the haters.

I want to talk to you a little bit about how this album holds up as an album, but I do think that we should center here. There are two songs on this album that I think if we go back through all the Hannah stuff, all of, you know, can't be tamed, break out,

all of the stuff. I think at this point, if we're doing a Mount Rush more, it's the climb. It's party in the USA. It's We Can't Stop and it's wrecking ball. Yeah. Are you going to talk about the driveway?

I want to, but I can't. You know you can't. You know that you can't. No, no, I briefly considered making the case. You know, we haven't gotten to Pablo the Blowfish yet. remind me to not ask you this question again. But yeah, I mean, it's a total Mount Rushmore, not just of like Miley songs.

Like these are fucking anthems. And it's 2013, she's 20 years old. She's got four of them. Yeah. Yeah. It's like four career. You need one career defining songs. She's got four at this point.

Yeah. You're hard pressed to find any other. pop star that has four that are that big and that have that level of it's 2025, this shit comes on in almost any social setting and people are like, yes. Is there anything else? Are there any deep cuts on bangers that you really want to go to bat for? You know, on my own is on the deluxe edition. And it's so clearly a Farrell song like the other songs on this album that are Farrell songs. It also kind of has another one bites the dust in it. A hundred percent, it has another one bites the dust. She is absolutely doing a Michael

Jackson impersonation. And that said, the song kicks ass. Yeah. I mean, I'll get this out of the way before we talk, because when we talk about collaborators, I want to talk a little bit more about like, were there some moments here where Miley Cyrus didn't totally have a lot of business performing in the way that she was, maybe? Part of the thing that complicates that for me is that anything that she is asked to do if it's a Michael Jackson impersonation,

if it's rapping, if it's like totally belting. Diservisable. She's down for it. Every single thing she can do it. Yeah. Before she does the album, she does, Like when she's just getting to know Mike Well, she does the song 23 with Wiz Cleef and Juicy Jay. And like she's the best rapper on that song. And that's interesting, right?

Like that's like she just, she can, her voice is so malleable. And as a performer, she's so good. Yeah. That it's just. Yeah. And I guess that's what I feel about the rest of the track. that make up bangers is that it's a performance more than it is you can see her underneath it all but that it is a performance it it just yeah she is one of our great cover artists and in this particular case I think she worked with some producers and creators where this was

their jam as you said clearly it had intersected with her life in some ways and they stitched it together and this is what we got. And I think the hardest part about grading this album is that we can't stop and wrecking ball are A pluses. They are. There's nothing to criticize. And you could have put Nora and Nathan, you know, burping for the next 10 songs and the album still would have gone to number one because it had those two songs and it had her performance on the VMAs and really nothing else mattered. But as a standalone body, there isn't stuff on here that I necessarily would go back to. It's cool to hear Brittany. Like, there is an anointment of, of Miley on the song bangers by having Brittany there. And that was a relatively normal performance

from Brittany. There's a lot of F-bombs. It's push it from salt and paper. They ask me how I keep a man. I keep a battery pack, which I will say I thought was pretty funny. Absolutely great line. I don't know if the rap here is any good, to be honest, but the song is fine. Yes, I agree. No, I agree. There are two where I have to add an asterisk to my assertion that she can do anything.

And one of them is, I actually think Brittany does a little better than Miley on that song. I'm flying high up on my bird, acrophobia. I got slick harder. I just think about like the mother who was trying to hold on to the old Miley Cyrus and hoping that, hoping against any rational perspective on the way that life actually works,

that Miley was just going to stay little old Hannah Montana. And if you just think about what's happened, she's, by the time this album shows up in people's iTunes, you know, or Spotify playlists, this stuff. You've had the VMA moment. You've had her swinging naked on the wrecking ball. You've had all these controversial moments. And now the album starts and you hear adore you.

And I think about that mom, just for one brief second being like, oh, okay. Okay, we're fine. I can get into this. We're fine. My 16-year-old daughter can listen to this. And I don't have to pretend that, you know, she's leaving me and growing up and becoming a young woman. This is fine. And then we get to, we can't stop. And she's talking about doing lines in the the bathroom. Then we get to bangers and she's, I mean, it's just, you're totally over it. And by the time you get to four by four, she's talking about pissing herself and Nellie's using the N word and it's over. And that mother's head has completely exploded and she's now looking for what's next. And to be honest, like, I sort of wonder if the reason that one direction, who are putting out an album that,

by the way, ultimately like takes the number one spot from some of these, some of these tracks and out, like, is because it was a little cleaner and a little safer and that maybe some moms push some kids in that direction as Miley was becoming Miley. Two things. I will admit that my only personal moment of pearl clutching on this entire album is the P stuff on four by four. I don't know. It's my favorite line. It's the best lyric. Oh, my God. I don't. I just don't want to think about urine. Driving so fast I'm about to piss on myself I don't like it

Driving so fast I'm going to piss on myself It's too evocative Oh it's great That's what's too evocative for you Yes because all of a sudden Of all the things on this album And like what it would be like

To be yourself Drying a car You Surely on the New York City highways You've looked at the things that are strewn on the side of the road. Like, you've done a road trip before. Sometimes you've got to go. Yeah, but when she says, I'm going to piss myself, I think that she's going to pee like down her leg while she's driving. That's what that sounds like. Yeah, that's what it feels like when you're

stuck in the car and you got nowhere to stop. Okay, but I, but you stop. Like, you always make it in that scenario. And I feel like she's suggesting something else. Um, what? I think that's really, what the line is about, which is just the sort of excitement, the female rebel and all of the... Yes, and I do, I like the outlaw vibe. You just don't like the P reference. I just, I really, I think I don't like the word piss,

even though now I've said it a hundred times. I think I just don't, I'm like, ew, gross. I'm not like, what a bad example for children. I'm just like, ew, gross. Well, of all the things that happened, You were fine with the dry-humping the foam finger. I mean, I don't love, if there was one thing I could have done without, perhaps it's the phone finger. But I, yeah, no, I don't care about that.

I don't care about the vibrators. I don't care about the cocaine. I really think it's all fine. I'm not personally into the piss lyric. But that's it. That's fine. I'll get over it. I'm not asking Miley to change.

I'm just telling you how I feel. Well, I'm glad that. we talked about that, and your head would have exploded by 4 by 4, apparently. Not because of what I thought, but because of the peepy. You know what? I like that song. It has that kind of poca vibe, and it really reminded me of Kesha's Joy Ride, which is a funny little contemporary parallel.

Yeah. I'm trying to change the subject so bad so that you stop talking about P. Bangers literally steals from Push It from Salt and Pepper, like it samples it. My darlands obviously interpolating stand by me You know, do my thing I don't even want to talk about that Yeah, that's the other one. Is this one of your cuts?

F you, well, it is F you as I put a spell on you. Like everything was going fine. I found a love that I thought was going to last spell on you. Do my thing? Yes. Is it one of my cut? Like, how are there six songwriters for this?

Like, what did they all do? It's not possible. Each person would have had to write half a word because there's only three words in this whole song, basically. Yeah, and some of the accent work that Miley's doing. I mean, Jean-Baptiste is a co-writer. Like, it's bananas like an orangutan. and by the way, they totally pronounce it

with the G on the end. There's no G on the end of orangutan. Dang bitch. You think I'm strange bitch. It's bananas like a fucking rangatang bitch. Yeah, but people do say orangutang. People say piss, but it doesn't sound good to some people. Okay, I agree with you.

I do think that that song is really difficult. More F bombs here. Do My Thang is just bonkers. And it is bananas. Like an orangutan, like any sort of primate. And it should be consumed and thrown away and discarded as if it were a piece of fruit eaten by a primate. Okay, but I think Love Money Party is kind of fun. Okay.

Do you think it's like really self-aware? Is it tongue and cheek? Like I felt like she was back to playing a character here. It follows Wreckingball, which is, it's like a really hard slot to go. Yes, I agree. It's a very strange transition. But then there's like, she playing,

yeah, I think she's playing. Yeah, she talks about heartbreak later on in this song, which I believe her in that moment. It's just this weird juxtaposition of what feels to me

like truth and manufactured sound. Yeah. I think it's probably more than that moment of truth about putting Miley on a song where she can say Love Money Party over and over again. and have a big Sean feature.

But I think it just, it has an energy that works in that way. And you are in this party state of mind. And therefore, I think maybe it doesn't bother me in combining those things. But I hear what you're saying. It feels very grafted. The one that I kind of like comes right after, which is get it right. which is funny because it has a little bit of the blurred lines Whistle.

It's got the walking bass line. It's a party. There's a whistle in the background. There's a guitar riff. You know, get it right is happy. The Justin Timberlake song. It's, you know, it's all that. I mean, I think we should acknowledge how much of,

Even the stuff where we're talking about like, okay, Miley Cyrus doing this sort of like electro trap pop record, does that really make sense? It's not like this is coming out of thin air, right? You could do a lot worse in the fall of 2013 by being like, huh, all this stuff that's working for future. Like, can I get a little sprinkle of that in what I'm doing on my pop record? Same goes for Justin Timberlake, Farrell, like all of that stuff. So it's not, like, it's not completely coming in a vacuum. Yeah. Hot in here. Like, there's, there's some, it's a little bit of, uh, get lucky. Like, there's, there's, it's a little bit formulaic, although those songs are all great and different sounding. But you can, you can certainly taste the ingredients. Was there anything else that you needed to cut other than, uh, you, you were cutting love money

party and do my thing? I was cutting do my thing and I'm not cutting the Britney song because I just like the passing of the baton. Yeah, I'm with you. If I'm honest, I do think some of the weaker moments on the album come there.

In bangers itself? Yeah. Fucking bangers. Yeah. I mean, again, I... The two major bangers on this record are just kind of genre transcendent.

I'm not even sure that her foray into hip hop really works, but it doesn't matter because these two songs are totally timeless. And it's just like, it's an album you have to take seriously both because of those songs and because of the cultural waves

that she made around it. And that's the part for me that, as we think about where she is, she's still a young woman who's still, you know, on the outside, such an adult because she's had to be an adult. But I just can't imagine

what it must have been like to know that with the wave of one finger, albeit your own hand or a foam one, that you could create ripples that like break the spacetime continuum of culture. She had... She was sort of uniquely capable of that. It's like an Avengers-level power, right?

Where if you're not careful with the one swipe of a hand, hand, people can either misinterpret or correctly interpret, whatever it is that you're doing, that it just has that level of earth-shaking impact. I mean, we really don't see another cultural figure like that. I don't think until Donald Trump. Oh, my God. That's not the reference that I was expecting. Yeah. But I mean, in terms of how so much scrutiny and over-interpretation and misinterpretation and correct right.

It just like someone who can polarize so easily with a little gesture. Well, some could argue Taylor Swift. You could also argue that the, if there is a precursor to this, just in terms of this thing that happens at a music awards show and then becomes the event that spawned

a million think pieces and controversy and has this long tail in some ways, it is Taylor. and Kanye in 2009. Yeah. And that is at the beginning of kind of like, that is at a slightly earlier stage in the rise of social and everybody being able to have these conversations.

But I do think that there is a parallel there. But I think the Disney, the Disney piece of it, I think it's so hard to, you can't underestimate how much that means and that background means that generation, a generation of parents, ownership over her.

And some of the more conservative cultural institutions sort of felt that there was something that she owed them. And I don't think that it's the VMA's audience. By the way, you mentioned the VMA's. I don't think it was the VMA's audience, which, by the way, because you mentioned One Direction, there is a moment during the performance, it's before Robin Thick gets on,

where they pan to the audience, and it's the One Direction pull. And Harry has such a shit-eating grin on his face. It is the funniest thing. Like, everybody else looks sort of like, huh, I don't totally know what's happening. But in general, people don't look flabbergasted. They don't look offended. They don't look like jaw dropped.

Yeah. But I think there are these outside places that really felt like they could whack around a former Disney kid because they could sit. that there is this ascribed set of rules that aren't real and have never been real, but where you get to say, because you did this once,

you now have to follow what we want you to do. Well, yeah. And, I mean, Miley gave the uninitiated, plenty of breadcrumbs to connect dots to get to the outcome and narrative that they wanted, right? she had been videoed smoking a bong. And then the next song that comes is talking about multiple forms of

fairly hard party drugs, right? I don't think her performance on the VMAs was particularly sexy. Like, as she said in talking about it, like if I was trying to be sexy, I would have done something different, right? It was intentionally outrageous and campy and cringy.

I think, right? And it succeeded in that without people getting the point. The performance is not one of like sexuality. It is being a silly party kid. Yes. Which I'm not saying is in line with the... Yeah, I mean, some intentionally, right? I think there are, I think some of this, you know,

we shouldn't forget that there's a fair amount of this that's happening on Fox News in the New York post, in places that are not. not necessarily coming at it from a place of genuine shock and horror and are maybe looking to be outraged. But obviously, there is something that really did provoke people because of how widespread their response was. Well, I still think that her most important collaborator was that foam finger. Oh, my goodness. Because I think it changed. It changed a lot. It just rippled through. And it was that that you, 12 plus years later, you still remember. Fair. Fair. I think it's Mike Will. Not the only producer, but I think the person who sort of established the direction with her.

The thing that I have to ask you about that is, does it bother you? Yes. The watermarks make me so upset. Because they are all over the place. Well, it sounds like she's doing them. Yeah, she's doing them. And she even shouts him out in a lyric. But I will say this. In this moment, to me, it is much more of an accepted practice in the hip-hop world.

The last album, where she's trying to break free and she's doing some sort of like rock-pop thing, like, the rock-mafia stuff. makes me angrier than this. I think that's fair. I think also, you know, I'm sure she, I think she had been paired with rock mafia in a way where she had sought Mike Will out in a way that came from a little more. But it is strange to have an album, per se,

that at least lyrically starts with adore you and is loving, and then at the end, again, is basically a breakup. And there be these intermittent, it's sort of just unnecessary lack of cohesion. And when you sort of brand it as here's a mic, well, okay, well, now I didn't get that watermark or that shoutout. So who am I listening to?

Oh, this is Feral. Oh, this is somebody totally different. There's just, it contributes to a little bit of the disjointed we're throwing some spaghetti at the wall, generally speaking, feeling of this album, where at any given time it's going to be hip hoppy and she's going to be. be rapping or there's going to be some southern kind of country infused here. And that's fine. Like she doesn't have to be the point of Miley Cyrus is that she is not contained ever. There are no bounds to what she will do. And what she can do, as you said earlier, she is a bit of a

shape shifter in that way. But I think as an album, it doesn't hold together as much. And some of those callouts to me just highlight that. Well, and I don't know that, you know, I don't know that, you know, Miley. It's funny. I think in some ways she's thought of as an album-centric artist because she has done all these albums that have distinct aesthetic philosophies. And so you can say, oh, that's from bangers. You know, that's from Miley Cyrus and her dead pets. But I don't think that she, I don't think that she's had a classic album. She's had a really meaningful collection of really classic singles. Fuck you. Meet Miley Cyrus is

classic. Okay. Meat Miley Cyrus. Okay. Meet Miley Cyrus. But like I'm actually going to take you seriously. Meet Miley Cyrus might be her most cohesive album. It might be her album that feels the most like something that you are meant to listen to from start to finish and you understand what her intent was in putting it together that way. I would be so curious to ask her going through bangers

did she feel strongly about that story of love and heartbreak and on and get off again and romantic challenges that is sort of woven through this when she was thinking about this album. And I agree, but it's subtle. You just have to pay attention. Well, right. It gets lost in the performative,

controversial, demonstrative stuff. But so is that, does she, because I don't, I think it's there. but I don't think that this album is effective in telling that story. I don't think you listen to bangers and come away with, oh, Miley just took me on this like sequenced journey telling me about her life and telling me about what this has been like and what she's been through. I think it gets masked in the unevenness of having two undeniable songs

and then some other stuff that is interesting to very. degrees. And then I also think that it gets massed on a song to song basis a lot of the time because the aesthetics overwhelm the lyrics. And I just wonder if that is intentional. Again, how much of this is Miley in control making intentional choices? How much of this is her spiraling because of her relationship? Maybe because of her partying. Who knows? How much of, if that was even a thing? How much of this is public criticism? How much of this is her family? How much of this is her rebelling against Disney, and how much of it is just like Miley at the core,

to your point, was she still figuring out who she, well, we all are learning about who we are at every stage of life. Yeah, she still is, I still am, I'm sure, like, we all are. Well. Can I have the conspiracy theory? I mean, what I really just want to talk about is the karma of blurred lines. Because we never really hear from Robin Thick again. And some people would say for good reason.

Like the Marvin Gay Estate finally, years later, wins the lawsuit against this song. Emily Radikowski, who kind of got put on the map from this video, eventually comes out and talks about the sexual harassment that she experienced on the set of this video. Miley's performance gets ransacked. She sort of quite literally butts up against this song. And it, like... Also, by the way, I'm so sorry. don't mean to interrupt your, your conspiracy, which I really want to hear.

Why is Robin Thick dressed as a footlocker employee during this whole... This was supposedly cool. Like, does the guy... Like, it's such a weird... He was such a weird... Manufactured pop star. Like, he didn't dance. He just stood there.

Like, his whole thing was standing there while women sort of threw themselves at him. And danced and gyrated around him as if... that's a thing that happened. And that happens in real life. That gets translated to the song lyrics itself, which, you know, there's a, Frill has done everything he can to distance himself from that. I think Robin Thick himself over time has been like,

yeah, I wish that none of this had happened. So I just think this song, there's a lot of bad energy and bad karma that spilled out of this song. And we saw it in person on stage, that night. Yeah, it has bad juju. I mean, not to mention the fact that I, my understanding of what happened with the lawsuit with the Marvin Gay's date is that essentially they might not have won if to some extent Farrell and also Robin Thick didn't come across as like kind of massive assholes on the state. Well, my point is this. Do not fuck with the ghost of Marvin Gay.

Words to live by. Words to live by. And, and My lady. maybe caught some strays amidst the the blurred lines bad karma. Okay, thank you for explaining that. I just needed to know.

Is that your peak Miley or was that your conspiracy theory? Do you have Pete Miley? That's kind of my conspiracy theory that Marvin Gay's ghost arranged all of this awful stuff to punish the people who stole from him

and to expose them for their misogyny. A peak Miley, is it her like smoking weed accepting an award in Europe or like, what is peak Miley in this moment? Yeah, I've got two.

I mean, one is that, and we've hinted at this a little bit, she sort of told everyone that she was thinking about this is her first real album, which is kind of hysterical because if you put it in the context of this journey that we've been going on, and I love when our pod helps me recontextualize an artist, that's basically like the fourth album in a row where on some level, Miley is like,

this is my first, I'm going to introduce myself and you're going to know the real me. Yeah, this time it's real. I'm breaking out part five. And I mean, like, she definitely did. It's just, yeah, where we went on a journey with this idea. I mean, it sort of suggests that the earlier attempts were failures to launch, even though we found some really good stuff on it.

This one is in controverge. Like, there is no doubt that she has broken free. Yeah, I mean, should this album have been called Breakout? What do you think of the album title bangers? Which, to my understanding, they came up with because at one point, Mike Will was like, there's a lot of bangers on this album. I'll tell you honestly, in the moment,

it made it hard for me to totally take it seriously because it felt like appropriation is wrong. Like, is the wrong way to say it. It just didn't feel like a thing that Miley Cyrus herself would have generated. On the other hand, it does sound exactly like what that character

who was up on stage that night with the foam finger would have called her album. Well, and there was this strain in culture of like, you know, white frat boys and others talking about how turned up they got

and... That's in use on this album, yes? That party was so crazy last night. We listened to bangers only. Everybody got turned up. It was like YOLO. 2013 was the time. And I guess I understand how that felt resonant.

I agree with you. The, you know, the Z of it all. It's funny. The goofiness that I do think is a part of this era and an intentional part of this era that didn't seem to come through in the way that. people responded to the teddy bears and the VMA performance and all of that stuff, it comes through most clearly

on bangers because it does feel a little silly. But I mean, let's speak I just want to say so that we're comprehensive. She collaborated on this album, on this project with Ludacris. It's go hard or go home

and it ain't no looking black. My toughest enemy's in the mirror. Would you look at that? With Farrell. With French Montana I do you know you might Baby let me show you down With future

We go make a movie With fucking Nelly Show you won't ride with me If you're scared don't lie to me The West would in Mississippi flow when I'll rest with Big Sean. Like, that's kind of a murder's row of hip hop stars. And this is my other, this is my other, Pete Miley.

Every single one of those featured artists tries hard on their verse or on their feature. Like, which I do think speaks to her being a good hang. I think it is in some ways a pretty important cosign vis-a-vis that conversation about whether she had any business singing some of this. And I also just, that's my other peak Miley, because I just, I think to the extent that those people spent time with her or just sort of knew what she was about, clearly there was enthusiasm for it. I mean, look, Paul Simon goes to South Africa and comes back and makes two albums, including the all-timer Graceland. You know, history and hindsight has criticized him a little bit for appropriation, right? Because for sure, that is ostensibly what happened.

On the other hand, he also introduced the world to a bunch of fascinating and now timeless music from South Africa. He, like, shown a spotlight on a whole lot of things that were happening there politically and culturally and so forth. I'm not going to go so far as to say that's what's happening here. I don't think Miley Cyrus introduced the music listening public to, like, trap beats in 2013. No, no, but they're, you know, it's not like she just had one feature where you're like, what the fuck is this person doing on this album? Like, why is this person here? Like, we had a few thoughts about a feature on the Katie Perry album, for example.

Like, here, it's like legit. It's like, it's not she got one person, she got a whole, it's a little bit like Post Malone and his country record. Yes, although in this case, she has songs where she's not relying on a feature that did the work of making this a big album. a credible album, an album that felt like it had something to say. I don't know that I would go so far as to say a platforming necessarily, just because, like, you know, futures doing fine for himself, right?

Yeah. But I do think, to your point, about the difference between the types of music that you would hear on Radio Disney or in that ecosystem versus this, this is an acknowledgement of where popular music was, right? Like this, by making this album, it does show Miley to have a pretty clear understanding of what people broadly are actually listening to and partying to and responding to

and that she herself doesn't have this like whitewashed, squeaky, clean, disnified, false understanding of what that is. I mean, Taylor's going to have future on her album in four years, right? she's going to have... I'm just saying like there's

it's not groundbreaking. The future and Ed Shearren double feature. That song is not my favorite. Yeah, I mean, I think that was future in a slightly different era. But no, totally. It's complicated.

The thing that I come back to is she made an interesting album. She did good work. She was not taking the work of others and presenting it as her own because she had nothing to say. She had something to say and something that she wanted to do. She made an interesting body of work.

She was an interesting person in popular culture. She made two iconic songs. Are there pieces of that that got a little fast and loose with some of the aesthetics? Absolutely. But I don't think, I think the real sin would be appropriating a culture because you don't have anything to stand on on your own two feet. And I don't think that, I don't think you can say that that's the case with Miley. You know what else you can't say?

Oh boy. That there's a next album appetizer because nothing, nothing can prepare you for what comes next. Okay. Except the bangers tour. Because she's on tour. I agree with you. Because what comes next is Miley Cyrus and her dead pets with a Z. Yes. And finally you're going to get to talk about it.

Let's fucking go. I know you're so excited. Years I've been waiting for this. It's actually crazy that this is really happening. But the Genesis, in some ways of that album, which is your favorite album of all time, is that she's on tour, she's on the bangers tour, and she becomes friends with Wayne coin from the Flaming Lips, and that, you know, the rest is Pablo the Blowfish history.

Well, nothing can prepare you for what's going to come next. And it should be said, this album is basically the last time that she did a real tour. Yeah, I was hoping that you would talk about that a little bit. Do you have any, the Bayer's tour, the only thing that I remember was that just visually, it was unhinged. It was like furries and colors and psychedelic explosion sort of everywhere. Yeah, well, she played the most dates on this tour, really, that she ever had, save for maybe the best of both worlds tour. But I think this one she really did the most dates.

But what was crazy about this tour is that she kind of did the same set list pretty much every night. And she didn't do any old shit. It was all just this album and party in the USA. Yeah, kind of a testament to party. in the USA starting to be like reclaimed a little bit and that it was on here. Yeah, but all the old stuff, there's no hand on nothing.

And that's the last time we saw her. I mean, she has not, that to me is why I can't wait to see the touring activity that's going to come. And I'm pretty sure it's going to come. But this is a woman who can, and I assume probably will, play stadiums if she wants,

because she has not been out on tour since 2014. in a meaningful way. Yeah, she's played some festivals and a few things here and there, but mostly... No, but going city to city or doing this many nights, it's been so long. Yeah, and that's an important point on this, on this album, is that it does mark the beginning of her retrenchment a little bit and going from being everywhere to a shift in strategy over time where she's going to make a point of showing up only when it really matters. so you're going to pay attention if Miley is there. Your best lyric isn't the piss lyric, is it?

You're goddamn right it is. Oh, no. Driving so fast, but to piss on myself. Driving so fast about to piss on myself. Yes. Are you serious? I even wrote it down. Oh, my gosh.

Driving so fast about to piss on myself. No, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Okay, well, I'll let you live your truth. I brought it up already. It's the things don't run wee, that little twist. Yes.

I really love. Just such a testament to just getting a little messy and painting. It is messy, though. The grammar doesn't bother you for one minute as a born writer. Is it just this that you're talking about? No. Well, yeah, I mean this, but yeah, generally speaking, there's... Like you said, it's a little hot messy.

This one feels... It doesn't feel... it doesn't feel intentional but it also doesn't feel incorrect in some ways again it's like that's that me espresso to me is the best comp

yep and so I actually love it even though I do think that yes it is grammatically incorrect how do you even attempt to grade an album like this yeah I mean it's exactly what you said it's very difficult

because wrecking ball and we can't stop our A plus plus plus plus plus plus plus plus plus plus plus plus and then the rest of the stuff is more uneven and less eternal. It's like that first Katie Perry album where it's just like filler

except for the giant fucking hits. Although I do think there is no peacock on this album. Like I don't even think Do My Thang is peacock. So let's not

tag her with that. But the only thing that I could think to do was just kind of average it out. And to me, that was like a B plus A minus. Yeah. I think that's probably right. I just think any album that has these two songs on it, I have to sort of begrudgingly give an A minus, even though I don't think there's anything else on here that I would come back to other than that one Michael Jackson song. And I don't think, like, I'm not sure that these songs, maybe it wasn't the point, but, you know, I don't think that these songs, like, in the future that she's going to bring them back. I'm not sure they're part of, 23, she does seem to bring back, you know? 23 is good, and she's good on 23. And I think four by four rears its head down the road.

But for the most part, there are two songs that she made on this album that endure. And those are the ones we're going to see and hear. I will shout out in the like 75th minute of this podcast that I also like rooting for my baby, which is a bonus track. It has this almost kind of like flamenco guitar. And I think that's a good song. That's the like sort of like Stevie-Nicks-esque song, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I liked it. And that sounds good. It's fine. Miley to this point has had a lot of albums that she puts out and they come in conjunction with some big event or controversy or an individual song. And I think therefore we have this really strong memory of the eras of the albums.

In a way that maybe makes her feel a little bit more like the way that she has communicated as an artist has been in the way. in the medium of the album more so than it actually has been. I don't know what she would say about that. I don't know how she would think about that. I think it's an interesting thing to think of in terms of where she's going to go next because she's about to experiment with the album as a format

and experiment with a lot of things. But even with this project that she's working on now and is going to put out soon, you know, Miley, specifically as an album's artist, I sort of feel like as an open-ended question of what her identity there really is. We will get there. However, before we do,

we are going to talk about Miley Cyrus and her dead pets next week. Speaking of albums that end with the letter Z, yeah, there's continuity. The Z was the next album, appetizer, all over. Precisely. Precisely.

That was the telltale sign. We should have known. Are you excited? I'm pretty psyched. I've already started listening to the shit out of it. Pablo the Blowfish, I'm coming for you. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Prunziati.

He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kai McBullin for producing this episode. And we will talk to you next week.