Every Single Album - 'Bite Me' | Every Single Album: Reneé Rapp

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Nora and Nathan break down the second studio album from Reneé Rapp, aptly titled 'Bite Me.' They talk about her Broadway origins and how that manifests in her music (1:00), whether or not "Leave Me Alone" was the correct choice for the first single (27:59), and the mid-2000s pop influences that are present throughout this record (36:15). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan HubbardProducer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Prenciatti, and as always, I am joined by Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, how are you doing this fine first week of August? Good. We had a big Lollapalooza weekend. Pretty major Sabrina Carpenter show. We had a great Maria's show. And we're past the peak concert part of the summer, but we're getting to the peak release part of the summer. because we got Renee Rapp this week.

We've got a new Sabrina Carpenter album coming. There's lots to talk about. Lots to talk about. That sounds fun. Were you there? I didn't know you were there. No, I was not there. I was screaming at the television on Hulu.

Never mind. It's all love. What happened with Hulu? I just, you know, let me put it this way. Coachella does this extraordinarily well. When an artist is playing a festival, to 90,000 people, let's show the crowd.

Let's not shoot it like it's a Fallon performance or a Jimmy Kim, a live performance, you know, where the shot is tight. Or SNL even where the shot is tight. This is a big cultural, all of us chemically wired to be together in the audience, lots of human being energy, mass thing. And so much of the performance

is about getting a reaction out of that crowd. And it turns out that at Lollapalooza this weekend, lots of these artists were getting pretty powerful reactions from the crowd, but you wouldn't have necessarily known it. So that's my plea is when we're going to film these things, it's cool. Like there's money in it for the festivals, and that in turn goes to the artists.

And I think it's a great thing. It helps everybody plug in. Great for the brand. Love that we're doing it. Let's make it feel like a live show in front of 90,000 people, shall we? What reactions did you think were really? really amazing from the crowds. Well, I spoke with a few people who were there, and the marias actually crushed the set,

and there's some space in their music that... That's exactly what I was going to bring up. That's really cool to me. Yeah, there's no massive bangers that the marias have yet, and I'm hoping that we're going to get one from them at some point, but the music, that's not to say they're not great songs. They are great songs, but they are... chill and there is space and that brings every selection of a note that gets played on the guitar or note that she sings or drum hit or you know energy change in the song sort of comes

sharper into focus as a result so i think that set was a big one and look i Sabrina carpenter played to a lot of people it was a big show for sure for sure the maria's thing is cool though because i just think that when when the dominant aesthetic is sort of more on the the vibey side to still be able to thrive in a setting like that is really, really impressive. That's cool. She's a special performer. Love it. Maybe we'll get a chance to talk more Maria's sometime soon.

But today, we're talking Renee Rapp, because Bight Me, her second full-length studio album, came out last week as we're recording this. And actually also as you guys can first listen to this on Friday, August 1st. And Nathan, we've gotten a couple of chances to talk a little bit about Renee Rapp. I think dating back, probably wasn't the first time that she'd come up, but dating back to when she had, what was it, the headlining spot at all things go? Yes. That last year? Yep.

And I remember us talking about this question of whether or not she was ready to just kind of pop. And like she was ready for everything to completely come together. And it's obviously been quite a bit of time since then. And she's done different things. She'd released a couple of singles. But I do still feel like that is a little bit of the operative question with Renee rap and the operative question around this album. Is that in line with where your mind was, where your questions were going into your first listens?

Yeah. I think so. I mean, she's the face of L'O. Perel Parrish. She's, you know, a TV star from sex lives of college girls.

She's a Broadway star from mean girls. What's well? Well, she used to be, right? Oh, yes. She'd... Yes. And in some ways,

she comes across as even more of a TV star because the show has, has, in my view, show that I've liked very much, is just not remotely the same without her presence. Well, and she wants you to know that right out of the gate on this album, doesn't she? True.

But look, she's a gay icon. She's beautiful. She's an incredible singer. She's this archetype of the multifaceted, multi-hyphenate creator that will be the music business of the future. And for Renee, the question, I think in tech, we talk about finding product market fit. Startups. They start their business.

And it's like, hey, Can we build a product that we think is cool? Sure, but that actually finds a need in the market where there's a big enough audience of consumers who want this so that we can actually be a company instead of something that does something cool. And that to me has been the question for Renee Rapp. She is a star. This is not a question. She can sing her face off. This is not a question. Can we find product market fit in the music? And there are moments on her previous work. And I'm thinking about Snow Angel.

I'm thinking about songs like in the kitchen. Which is like a big ass song. And I think still to this day my favorite Renee rap song where like she's great live. Pretty Girls is a great song. Great song. Too well is a good song. That's my favorite song. Is it?

Yeah. That's my favorite Renee Rap. It's the song that streams the most, too. But I saw her sing in the kitchen and it floored me. It floored me. I was like, oh my God. And by the way, there are people who are huge fans of Renee Rap. She has passionate fans.

And I think today they are more passionate about. Renee rap than they are about her music. They like her music a lot. They love her. Now, one song can change all of that. And I think the question is, did they do that on this album? Yeah.

I feel a little bit like they did everything but that. And I think it's really good. But I think I have this sense of like, okay, so if you talk about her fit and in a musical context and in the pop marketplace context, we often talk about like, okay, there are the different lanes, right? Like, there's the Billy Ilish

lane, there's the Sabrina Carpenter Lane, there's the Lady Gaga lane. And if I think about Renee Rap, I think about what she's great at and what you kind of get from her, particularly when she's making music, right? Because it's a little bit of a different proposition

if we're talking about TV, we're talking about Broadway. one, I love her attitude. And that's absolutely present on this album. Right? Like the title of the thing is bite me. Yes. It's all over this album. And she's mad at everybody.

And I think that's five. Like she's, she has this like a surbic quality where she's pissed at her agents and she's pissed at her exes and she's like pissed at the people with the TV and she's pissed at the lawyers and she's just mad at everybody.

And I totally. totally dig it. And like, there's something incredibly charming to me about this person who's just like, fuck all you people. You're bothering me so much. Yeah, but she's not like angry, deep, rageful. She's more like annoyed and giving them the finger throughout the whole record, right? Well, and that's, yes, I totally agree with that. And I think that's very insightful because there's, there's this other part of it where I feel like she has these contradictory forces almost where, you know, we're talking about Jimmy Award winner Renee Rapp. Like, she's a theater kid.

She is, she comes from the school of performance and of creation of art that is our most, like, earnest and over the top. And almost, you know, musical theater people can be grading in a certain way to people. But then. But there are TikToks all over the world about her, all over the internet, of her doing Broadway songs. that are like jaw dropping. Oh my gosh, completely draw dropping. She's just a monster. Part of it where she's just an absolutely monster vocalist

who can do things that not that many people in the group of artists that we're normally talking about are capable of doing. And that's another reason why I really root for her. But if you take the part of being a musical theater kid that is more caught up in just that sort of try-hard quality, that's what you expect. but then

think about how she is in public, right? Think about how she is in interviews. Her whole vibe is kind of like, I don't really give a fuck. Mm-hmm. And again, it's endless... That famous SNL bit where she just... She sort of broke the fourth wall a little bit.

Yeah. And came out at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. I've been going absolutely off in every single interview lately, so now I have to do 40, hours of court-ordered media training.

You're ready, little lesbian intern, Renee? Yeah. Yeah, no, totally. And she's like, you know, there's a, the, I think she's with, I think she's with Seth Myers where she's done these really, really funny late night segments where she's talking about paparazzi photos of herself. And she's just really funny. And she's kind of making fun of herself, but she also has this, like, cockiness to her.

but the whole overarching vibe is like, yeah, whatever. Like, I'm just here for a good time, man. And I don't know if it's this sort of tension between the theater kidness and that, that sometimes makes me have a hard time, like, placing myself emotionally in her songs and in what she's doing because some of it is like this kind of cocky, I don't give a fuck piece. Right. And then there is some of it that feels.

feels like it comes from that musical theater universe that's like very different to me. And I don't always know where to where to touch down. But on the flip side, it does mean that I think both of those are kind of tools that she can have simultaneously. Yeah, there's a danger in having a brand that is all about attitude. And there's a lot of great attitude on this album. There's the injection of I would never ever cheat again. Again.

You like that, wouldn't you? And I swear that I would never, ever, ever cheat. Again. There's that she screams, I was on Good Girl. But sometimes on this album, it almost feels like it can overwhelm the substance, of which there is real substance on this album, I think. And, you know, the thing that I, we just talked about Sabrina's performance, And the thing that I keep watching with Sabrina and thinking about is she is playing a character.

I mean, it's her authentically. She's hilarious. And she's intelligent and witty. By the way, Renee is all those things. Yeah. But Sabrina is playing a bit of a character up there that we're all sort of getting into that she's sort of harvesting. And in Renee's case, you know, I look at the liner notes of this album. And Omer Fetty is sort of the producer that is on all of the tracks.

But the writers and, you know, there's a Ryan Teter appearance. Indeed. There's an incredibly Ryan Tettor-sounding Ryan Tudder appearance. Yeah. There's a Julian Bonetta from our friends at One Direction appearance. There are lots of writers that pop up across this album. And quantitatively, which is maybe not the right word, but just like as you look at it on paper,

let's put it that way, it reads like a session similar to some of the other pop records that we have reviewed, where we can tell that they were certain. for either a sound or a song. Mm-hmm. Because there's a whole cast of well-regarded, successful in their own right. This person put a Bruno Marr's song at the top of the charts. This person put a, you know.

Oh, I'll bet they did. Right. On and on, like where they've worked with people and had a number one hit before. And so they get into a room and into a session overseas. And sometimes those things work. And sometimes you can see the searching. You've published the scaffolding behind the intention of the project.

And I think that this project, like, it's good. And like, you know, there are a number of songs on here that I'm super into. And I think it captures, about two years in Renee Rapp's life, where she was tumultuously leaving a television show and taking some shit for that, where she was coming out fully as a lesbian

and probably taking some shit for that, where she was not yet in the relationship that she has very publicly introduced today with Toa Bird, where she, at least if we are to believe what she's writing and singing about on this album, where she was having some fun, and, you know, experimenting with relationships and going in those, those, you know, when you're single and you're sort of dropping in and out of relationships,

and you go through many heartbreaks over and over again, and then many fall in loves, but never quite get there on either side. So it's sort of a very sine wave-looking emotional place. And I'm with you that I think that sometimes gets overwhelmed by, leave me alone, bitch, I want to have fun. Yes, but also in a way where that sentiment is pretty close to a big part of, I think, what people associate with her and also sort of want from her. And so it's a little hard to figure out what's the right way to go, I would imagine. And I think that what you said about seeing the scaffolding is right.

But sometimes in the places where you can see the scaffolding are still some of the places where it works. But I do think that the searching is evident. At the same time, I do wonder how, like, I think all of these things that we're bringing up, I think they're all valid. I think they're all interesting. I do wonder how many of them would just kind of like breeze on past if there were one. like mega mega mega that's all this album is missing that's the only thing it's missing she sings well on this album there's some stuff i really like she writes well yeah i agree with you there's some really clever stuff on here it's interesting from a writing perspective and there's just one thing that's missing

and it's a big-ass hit, that's the only thing that's missing. And I think she's, look, first of all, she's going to have a number one album. This is going to be number one, and you deserve kudos when it's number one. Totally. When you look at the volume of streams

and album equivalence and all that compared to some of the other number one albums this year, it won't be quite as big. But, like, you should listen to this album because this woman is a star and she is going to find that product market hit. And she is one song away from being huge. And the rest of the album, there is not a bunch of bullshit. Like, I actually had a hard time. I don't think there's a bad song on this album.

I don't think there's a mega, mega hit on this album, but I don't think there's a single bad song. There's not a song that I did not like on this album. That I actually struggled with what would we cut. And I'm going to be controversial really just for the sake of it when we get there. but I do think that she is just a frag I think this is going to help bolster her credentials. There's stuff on here that's going to play great live. If you go see Good Graces, if you go see Mad Live, and she puts that alongside in the kitchen and Snow Angel, I mean, she is a performer above all else. And it is great.

And so you're going to love it. And then when she nails it and she will land this plane in some moment, And in particular, I'm excited to see what's next from her, even though I know we just got this, but just because it is so clear that this album is, from two years ago, that it is not as current as she is in her life right now. Knowing that she's been in a relationship for a year

that she seems to be happy with, at least enough to bring it out publicly, I'm really interested in that in getting into the guts of that. And I think my guess is that the Feedback from the audience on this album is really, really good. Give us one thing great. And you are literally in that upper echelon of pop stars because she's got more talent than almost any of her pop stars across the board.

And by the way, that means vocally too. This woman can sing. And if I have one complaint on this album, there isn't a moment like in the kitchen or like Snow Angel where you're like, holy shit, who is this? Oh, I think, okay, I think there's one moment, but you have to wait a long time for it. And I agree with you that I want more.

Here's the one, I totally agree with all of that. And that's a lot of what was going through my head when I was listening to this, other than going, oh, I really like this. Like, I'll listen to this five times in a row, this, you know, top to bottom. I want to acknowledge that I don't want to be victim to what I'm going to call

Sabrina Carpenter Disorder, which is that, like, I do think that we have in recent, in very recent memory, just, like, experienced what one song that is just almost instantly recognizable

as, like, a timeless stratospheric hit can do and not hold every pop star, and even, Even Sabrina Carpenter, too, right? Like, hold every album up to the standard of having an espresso.

Right? Like, it is, of course, great if you do. But the other person that I was thinking about when I was listening to this a lot, and I wonder if this is a, if you're Renee Rapp, if this is a type of touchstone for what different types of pop careers can look like that are really awesome and things to assess. aspire to is Carly Ray Jepson. Because if you ignore, if you take the call me maybe out of it, and then you get to the point where, you know, every couple of years for a while, that woman who,

you know, she comes from Canadian Idol, there's a little bit of that, it's not quite the same as Broadway, but there's a little bit of that like hyper earnestness. That's part of that puzzle. every couple of years, she's churning out an album that's like kind of under the radar. It's not massive, massive. But the fan base grows deeper and deeper and deeper. It's not necessarily the widest, but it's passionate. And then over time, people start going, okay, this person, you got to take this person seriously. You got to take this discography seriously.

There's some really, really, really good stuff here. And I do, just because of the, just because I thought this album was really consistently just like full of fun, good pop songs and then some interesting more ballety stuff too. I think that's why I was, I kept thinking about Carly Ray a little bit just because I think it was a good reminder to me that there are other ways to do it than to have one culture defining song. I would say that Renee Rap can sing and perform circles around Carly Ray Jepson. Okay, you're not slandering emotion on this podcast. That will not be taking place. But Renee does not yet have her call me maybe, and I will say I think your Sabrina comparisons are very apt because Sabrina Carpenter has had many albums for short and

sweet. Right. Right. And she had, you know, because I liked a boy, nonsense, right, that are performable songs that she'd played at Coachella just as espresso was happening, right? Way back a few years ago, you forget that she'd had a career leading up to that and that it was that foundation that helped it explode. I think Renee Rap on paper is a higher profile. has more star quality leading up to that than Sabrina did it at the time. And question is just, can she land the product market fit with the song?

That's all it is. And I think you're exactly right that that's all that's missing from this album. And that's not really a knock on the songwriters or producers. Like it's hard to do that. We notice that with the duo record, right? We noticed that with the Gaga record. The Gaga record, as you pointed out a few weeks ago,

I think it's strong and it did not have that big hit, but it did its job, which was to extend the career of this woman. She's performing these songs like an absolute champ and turning them into visual spectacles that's helping extend the length of it. I mean, I had a conversation this week with somebody who just said, somebody in the record label who said, look, we invest in a record label who said, look, we invest

in touring now because we know that it's actually out on the road where we start to see streaming happen if you didn't get the massive hit out of the gates. If all the stars didn't align right out of the gates and bang, you've got espresso that's just off to the races, we know that out on the road, when people start to see these things, you start to get some acceleration in the streaming across the board.

I think that's what's happening to Gaga. And by the way, it wouldn't surprise me if that's what happens to Renee. Oh my God, it wouldn't surprise me at all. all because as you said, she can sing the lights out. And that's in some ways where it all comes together, right? Because she is funny. So she's going to be up there. She's going to be, I mean, I don't know, but I would imagine she's going to be cracking jokes with the audience. I'm sure she'll have some, like, really funny bits. And she'll get to use her voice. And she can, you know, use her sex appeal. And, I mean, she does it all. She just does it all up there. And so she's going to headline all things

go Toronto this year and that's going to be a fascinating window into and she's got a, she's got a whole arena tour that's doing very well. So she's going to be taking this stuff out on the road. It'll be interesting. There's just, she just needs a levitating and they got to keep taking swings at it and I'm not sure that it's on here, but this is quality stuff. Do you think of her as a pop star? Yeah, as opposed to. Yeah, she's a pop star, but I mean, there's a lot of rock on this. This is, this is, and she intended it to be more Joan Jett than Madonna. Yes.

That's, yeah. There are some names that I would, I think of it as a little bit later on and now I think you could say that all of these people are pulling from Joan Jett, but I get a lot of I get a lot of like pink or the Veronica's. Sure.

Dare I say it, Nathan. Michelle Branch. Oh boy. You get Michelle Branch? Really only on one song. We'll get there. This is like that weirdo guy, like a sommelier, who's like, yes, I'm getting notes of old tires and... Getting notes of wet laundry and Michelle Branch.

Something I stepped in on the way to the pool house. I almost... No, I did almost send this to you. And then I was like, I'm going to save it for the pot because Nathan's going to think that this is funny. But there was one song where I was like, we've got a Michelle Brank. ranch respecter on our hands, ladies and gentlemen. That's Renee Rapp. Well, let's get into it.

I don't think there's any doubts. I mean, there's no doubt at this point, and this is sort of my problem, is that Leave Me Alone is the biggest hit. It's already a top 10 streaming song of hers. Yeah. It spilled the tea a little bit, I guess, on the show. It wasn't the sex life with me now the show ain't.

It wasn't. that big of a hit. I mean, as we as we sort of look at where it sits overall, it's, like, it'll get to 100 million Spotify streams. But right now, it's, it's at 31. It's doing a little bit less than a half million a day. Pretty good clip. That's a song that people are listening to. Yeah. It's not espresso, right? I love when she makes the crack about the, the, um, about the show. and when she's like, now the show ain't fucking it's really funny.

Yeah, I mean, it is. She's fucking funny, right? But like, I mean, right now, Manchild is doing three million streams a day. Just for perspective. So that's the relative difference in songs that have been released

this summer and the ways in which they're being streamed. Now, Manchild is like a massive song, but just to sort of put, you know, bounds around it. Yeah. Is there any, no, I think that's, I don't think anything else is going to outpace, leave me alone. She also started releasing this stuff pretty far in advance, so it's had a lot of time. Yeah.

I think the question to me is if there's going to be anything deeper in the album, that maybe when it's on, when, when she's really touring this stuff is possibly when that could start to happen, there's something that makes a deeper cut. start to bubble up. And that doesn't mean that it needs to get to the raw numbers of a Leave Me Alone. But I'm curious what that would be. I will tell you that I'm curious if it would be any of the songs that I have as my favorites, which tend to be the either popier or some of them are pretty rock-inflicted, but the brighter songs. What are they? What are your favorites? Kiss it, kiss it. Good girl. And shy. are the three that stood out to me. I think Good Girls

the best song on the album. Okay. Okay. Give me the pitch. I just, I don't even think it's close. Like, first of all, the intro gives like pretty serious Betty Davis eyes. I thought it gave, um,

uh, take me home tonight. Sure. And I was like, just even before she starts singing, but just that intro, for a second when I started listening. listening to it, I was like, did I hit a button?

Yeah. I just think that, like, lyrically, it's great. Melodically, it's the best song on the album for me. And you always went over Nathan if you start your song with some 80s synth. Yeah. Okay. That is definitely one that I would be really curious to see if it could ever just have a ground swell. And again, I'm not talking about something that's going to get it to 100 million streams or whatever. But I'm just talking about something that kind of goes, oh, the people who know the fans have latched on to this. Right.

Kind of in the same way that you are, are, you know, always down for the 80s since. I think Kiss It Kiss It is also a great one because, like, I am just a sucker for that kind of, you know, it sounds like Duelipa could do this song. It sounds like Sabrina could do this song. the kind of new disco little bit of it

and then particularly that bridge where for a second that guitar strumming comes in and then they go back to the sparkly sparkly I really like that song I think that's one of the most just like listenable, playable,

be happy to hear it over and over again songs on the album. So that's another one that I wonder if the fans will really like. Yeah, I did. I mean, I was again, I'm not trying to bring up... I'm not trying to bring up Sabrina Carpenter

Left and Right But I do feel that in a sense She would have loved to sing this song Right But I also think But I'm glad that Renee Rap is singing it Because here's the other thing Big year for lesbians and culture

Elaborate Why is this a bigger year than others? I just I mean Because that's just what's happening all around us Nathan, are you watching The Hunting Wives on Netflix? Oh. Oh, I am not. And it bums me out that you said that

because I had an opportunity to watch that the other night. And I declined. And now you got me. Okay. Well, all I'm saying is I just... I have like 10 recommendations around me. Yeah, I mean, can I recommend that show? I don't know if recommend is the right one.

But it's an interesting watch. I don't want to spoil anything. but I just I Our boss recommended that to me Simmons is all about

that show that's cool I like it too you know what she should be a little bit raunchy I think that's right I think that's fitting

and it is here I mean it's across a lot of the stuff on this album shy is one for you that you I mean, shy as though we respect Michelle Branch in this house song. Okay.

I'll give you that. Yeah. At first, I wasn't sure about shy. And then the more I listened to it, I was like, no, this is a good song. Well, so here's it. I really like it. It was interesting to me for someone who had part of their big break being related to two different versions of mean girls. how many different threads of like mid-2000s

kind of like rom-com-ish movie soundtracks felt very present on this album. Yeah, that's true. There's a lot of like God is a DJ-era pink, which is on the original Mean Girls soundtrack. There was that Michelle Branch thread. there's like, some of it is that kind of like rock pop intersection stuff. A lot of that was Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen, Mean Girls, like all of those movies had soundtracks, legally blonde.

Like a lot of those songs that soundtracked those movies sounded like a lot of these songs. Yeah. And I don't know if that's conscious or intentional or anything, but it just, it was interesting. I put the movie Mean Girls as her most important collaborator. Because as you said, you hear a lot of the searching for what the right sound for her is. And so there's a lot of this album where I sort of struggle to say, oh, well, she's playing with this specific set of influences or she's like trying to work in this lane with this person or this set of collaborators. The thing that felt like an organizing principle to me was that. set of some of those references, which I thought was interesting.

Look, there's three singles that are out. It's Leave Me Alone. It's mad. And it's why is she still here? And those are the first three songs on the album. But if you just look at streaming so far, here we are on Tuesday after the Friday release, shy is the fourth most streamed on Spotify. and it's actually pretty significantly higher

than Kiss It Kiss It or Good Girl, which are down in the million and a half, 1.3 million. So it, and Shy is later on in the album, right? Sometimes you see the early songs, the songs at the end of an album, your... People don't always make it.

You're the alchemy, your Marcus, the back half of Tosh and Sam and Sophia and Marcus. Nora and Nathan and Gai And yeah, those songs get a little bit less just because people don't always get all the way through the casual listeners don't. But in this case, the point is,

shy is song number, what is it, six on the seven on this album. Yeah, six or seven. And, excuse me, it's eight. And it is streaming more than anything but the singles that are out. So that's very interesting, I think. A lot of Michelle Branch respecters.

There are dozens of, us. There must be. Is there anything else on here that is in it for you? Like, I really like I can't have you around me anymore. I love the guitar riff on it. So I can't have you around me anymore. It was the right intermediary between good girl and shy for me. I believe it. Yes. Yes. Sorry. I get confused between that and that's so funny. Yeah, that's so funny, baby, that you would tell it. Well, I get, yes, I get what you're saying about that, but I get confused just title-wise between that.

Okay. I think I like you better when you're gone, just because it's a lot of words. Yes. No, I agree. I agree. I think I like you better when you're gone. I'm okay with, too.

I'm okay with it. I think it feels a little slight to me. It's also the shortest song on the album. I think there's that's a song that I like like what they've done but it does feel like it's missing a year

in a way that most of these songs feel a little meatier. How do you request a song live like I can't have you around me anymore or I think I like you better when you're gone?

Like people have started you know with the acronyms I can do it with a broken heart this is pretty hard. Like how do you say it? Yeah I mean it's just too long to like yell out before an encore.

I just want to go on record as saying, I'm not worried about this. Okay. I'm slightly worried about it. I'm not worried about it. I'm also not worried about that so funny because I like that so funny.

Same. And Aaliyah from Sex Lives gets a shout out here. There's been a little bit of speculation about the friendship and everything. But like, who is this about? Alia said, be careful, girl, you don't really know her.

Well, yeah, I don't know. It's clearly autobiographical. Yeah. And it sounds like, you know, she's suing somebody. I mean, she said her lawyer loves this person. Yeah. Now everyone hates you, except of course, my lawyer. There's some drama.

Billable hours. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. The answer is I don't know. It's funny. Some album. that have an autobiographical component

really compel me to like figure out all the details. I guess I just felt like I wouldn't be able to, like I don't know all the intricacies so I figured I wouldn't be able to get there. But this, despite the fact that I really like this song, and this is the song where I, at the end, I do think she gets to go for it a little bit, which I was grateful for.

Took my eyes twisted tour. On that's so funny. Yes. Yeah, it feels like a Broadway song. Of all the songs on the album, it feels like the most Broadway, which is the native to her in many ways. Well, it feels like the most, it definitely does feel like the most Broadway. And by the end, I do picture her, like, on a big, you know, black box stage with a piano

or something like that. But at the beginning, it kind of, it reminds me of Olivia Rodrigo. It reminds me of the Olivia Rodrigo ballads, which even though they do not tend. They don't tend to be my favorite Olivia Rodriguez, but it is a sound that has a sort of anchor in contemporary pop music. Like there's something that it feels referential to that is current, and it's not just doing show tunes. Yeah, and I do feel like there are some of the Olivia rock genes,

if we can use a word de jure that permeate some of the songs on this album. Yeah, I get it. It feels closely aligned with Olivia. And by the way, we get a Dan Nigro sighting on this album. I get it more in the ballads. Like, I get it the most on that so funny and then can't have you around me anymore.

I get a little bit of Olivia too. She'll never be you, but she keeps me on course, and I'm not supposed to wonder if I should be yours. Right. Is there any, what are the ones that are more rocking that give you that side of O'Rod? I mean, I think mad. I think there is some leave me alone, like in those singles, I think I feel it. And then I feel it in you'd like that, wouldn't you, too?

Yeah, yeah. And a little bit of, I'm blanking on the title of the last track. No, that's it. You'd like that, wouldn't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For some reason, you'd like that, wouldn't you? I think I like you better when you're gone. I can't have you around me anymore.

Though I am confident that if I ever needed to request one of these songs from Renee Rap, all of the words, I'm like, which one of these songs is which. But that's my problem. I'll figure it out. Yeah. Who did you? Look, that's so funny is, ironically, the Dan Nigro song. So it's interesting that that that's,

was the one that you felt like was the sort of ballad and gave some Olivia ballad stuff. Totally. Speaking of Dan Nigro, who was your most important collaborator? Well, it wasn't Dan. I think it's Omer Fetty. Sure.

I don't really know on this one. I mean, he's the one who seems to be present on every single song across these things. As again, Julian Beneta, Ryan Teter, Dan Nigro drift in and out here, Alexander 23 in and out.

So was there anybody, Carter Lang, in and out on one song? Anybody that struck out for you, other than that? Well, that's why I went off book and said it was the,

the Mean Girls soundtrack. Okay. Because, yeah, Omar Fetty's probably the right call, but because there isn't so much of a recognizable, consistent sound.

I did feel like it was a little hard, hard to go that way. So that's why I chose to say that she was referencing the soundtracks of my youth. That's fine. And of her youth. And that she has taken upon remaking as a major portion of her career. And I hope it had an imprint on her, which it seems to. What would you cut? Yeah, this was hard.

You said you were going to be a little controversial here. Yeah, I'd cut Leave Me Alone. Wow. So what? And then would you have done the singles in the same order? Or would you have made a different song the first single than was a single? I just, I would move a good girl to be a single just to see. Huh. But this is why this is not my job.

Huh. No, it's it. Other people. Other people can do it. I understand why you led with Leave Me Alone, to be totally candid. Like, I think the strategy was right, which is like there's a little bit of tea for the fans in there about the show. It's super irreverent. It absolutely sets the tone for an album called Bite Me. I just think that there is a little bit more substance underneath the surface as you get deeper into the album that is really interesting. She talked, I think she was talking to Zane Lowe about making that song, about making Leave Me Alone.

and was saying sort of like originally she thought it was really stupid and was like, you know, gosh darn it, I am I am a Broadway caliber vocalist. Like I'm barely singing. What are we doing? And then kind of over time got into the acerbic quality of it and the catharsis of it and was like, actually, you know what, this is kind of cool. and maybe this is a little bit different, let's do it. And I think that's, I get that. I like the song.

I do think that I relate to what you're saying in that there's something a little bit wrong is a bit dramatic, but that's what I'm going to say, about having someone with this voice, have the first thing that you're putting out into the world be the song where she's basically talking. Yeah.

And I don't, love the tone that it's set for this whole thing. But it's not, but to me, I want the song to be on the album somewhere, but I do agree with you that I wish it wasn't the first thing that I'd heard. And I think that I would have a totally different reaction to it if that song were, you know, the eighth track on this album.

And then you're like, oh, all of a sudden, here's this kind of cool thing that, yeah, she can sing the living daylights out, but she's choosing to do this for, this one track and that's kind of fun. Look, there are moments on Snow Angel and in the kitchen where I mean, she's not Beyonce, but it sounds like she has that kind of voice for me. And that's, so to your point, like, that's kind of what I want people to appreciate. Like, she is one of the best pure singers that we have in pop. She's a better singer that I'm not going to do the comparisons,

but she's as good as we've got. And that's what I want to get. out of a few of these songs. And that's why I think you're right. Like, leave me alone. You're like, wait, okay, I get it. I'm getting the attitude. But man, give me that voice because she can take over a room.

It's like watching Tom Brady, like, swim. Like, go in a, do a swimming race, you know? Like, I don't know. What? Like, that's not what you show up to watch that guy, too, right? No, no. I did not show up to see Tom Brady. to see Tom Brady swim?

I don't know. No, I did not at all. It made sense to me in the moment. Tom Brady swimming. Can I? Yeah, now you're going to be thinking about that. How did you feel about sometimes? Is that what you want to cut?

Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's actually one I could get on board with. I'm not exactly sure why it is here. at number four? Like it seems like I wish Good Girl was in that slot. So yeah, except here's here's where I do think

that it does something that is effective within the context of the album. You, so you have Leave Me Alone. Very, you know, it's antagonistic. She's taken a shot.

She's spilling the tea. Mad. Also, we're airing grievances. We're listing. gripes. Why is she still here? Kind of same. But then sometimes is where you do get, you're given the sense that, you know, there's a person that feels hurt as well. And there is a little bit of a softness that I think is a helpful kind of recalibration and a little bit of a tonal switch. I will say that even though I think that that is, the benefit of that is establishing a different emotional register,

I don't think that as good of a singer as she is, I do think one area where I imagine she will grow over time is that I don't think she's always at her best communicating emotion through her voice. it's an incredible tool and it's an incredible instrument. It doesn't always make me feel. In the kitchen. Okay, I'm talking about this album, though.

The way that she's singing on this record doesn't always make me feel. And I think that sometimes could probably be a really similar song to what it is. And I would be more into it if I felt like she was. singing a little bit differently in an emotional sense, not in a technical sense. But the other, the thing that I struggle with more than that with it is just, it is such a Ryan Tettor song. Like it is dripping in its Ryan Tettoriness. That that's the only thing that I experience.

I'm just like, like, I'm just, all I'm doing is thinking about Ryan Tettor. I'm thinking about Ryan Tettor and his little plunky piano and. and it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's fine. But it, it becomes about something completely different to me and therefore, um, you're thinking about Halo when you hear this song. Yeah, and I'm thinking about like Leona Lewis and, and it's just, I'm somewhere else. Okay. And so that is my cut.

I don't mind it, but I understand why you cut it. Yeah. If I had to cut something other, than that. I don't mind. I think I like you better when you're gone. Actually, it's too sad.

I like the song, but it does feel, it feels slight to me in a way that most of these songs don't. I dig the chords and the verses a lot on that song,

but. Out of sight, out of mind, even when it's that you don't like. Cool. I came up with those on like third

and fourth listens. You know, because sometimes you listen to an album and it's really easy to go, Oh, I know it's going in that category because I don't like that song. The first several times I listened to this album,

I was like, I like all these are all good. Like, my ear was happy the whole time. But if we're identifying stuff that I think is just a little bit weaker than the rest. Did you have any conspiracies that you wanted to, do you think that Renee Wrapped Taillerswept out of smoke? No, I don't think that. No, I don't really have.

Can he name this category? Should it just be like a quick check-in? Hey, Nathan, do you think that this artist has ever given Taylor Allison Swift to Cigarette? The answer to that question here is no. Although she does reference it on this album. There are some conspiracies around Toa Bird, but I don't know that I have anything new to add on that front.

I don't either. I will ask you a sort of half-related question, which is, I think I was saying something similar when we were talking about that so funny. How much do you feel compelled to get into the Easter eggs or the autobiography of any of this? Because this album is ostensibly, like, there's quite a bit of material here that is ostensibly telling a story of a love triangle, not really rhombus. I don't think there's a rhombus,

but I can't say love triangle on this pod without saying love rhombus. Does that draw you in? Are you in the Reddit threads? No, but I'm not the target audience of that one. But I'm not really either. I might be the target audience of it, but this is just an interesting example

where I'm like, that's fine. Yeah. It's not like getting me, you know, harkening me back to Sean Mendez, Sabrina, and no. Camel. Well, maybe it's because, I mean, maybe it's because. Camilla Cabela. She's not quite so mega famous where it all just feels, like I feel a little bit like, ah, like let the woman live, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, the T was less interesting to me. But I also wasn't like, like, I'm sure passionate fans of the show get a little bit more into it. Well, sure. And I will say, did you ever watch that show? I watched like an episode. And then I was like, oh, this is not for me. Okay.

Not that it wasn't good. It's just like, this is not made for me. This is not something I need to spend time. But like, I'm sure I can very much see that having been on. in your household. So that's why I'm asking. Yes, correct, exactly. It is really, to her credit,

how obvious in her absence, it has become, became that she made that show tick. Like, she was the secret sauce. She was the, there was, there was just a missing ingredient without Renee rap in that cast where with one person, it goes from being successful show that's fun to watch to, you know, they gave it a good try, but this just doesn't work. Right. And the only, the variable change was with Renee Rapp, without Rene Rapp.

Mm-hmm. And she will, like, that's, that's just a real, that is a real feather in her cap. It didn't mean to rhyme. What is peak rap? It's this L interview that she did where she pranks Bowen Yang into believing that she was just in a car accident where the car that she was not driving

but that she was riding in hit Lauren Michaels. Where she killed Lauren Michaels. I was like, oh my God, that's my friend. And it was Lorne. And the driver got distracted. He like basically hit Lorne while he was walking. And it ends and you're like

holy shit, give her an Oscar. And then the second thought for me was, is she playing me? Like, that was so good. Wait, are you serious? Yes. It was like, wait a minute, that's some psycho killer level. I slid very easily into a prank call

in which I convinced somebody that I had just killed their boss potentially. or at least injured him. Okay, I don't think she was the one who was, and, you know, all love to Bowen. I felt like I knew that those were two people who were in on the joke. You did. I thought Bowen was coming across as like, oh, no, it's okay. Don't worry.

Don't worry. Like, calm down, sweetie. You think that was bullshit? In a way where I was like, he knows what's going on. I mean, how can it not be, like, I've seen so many of those. where I'm like, first of all, if I'm any, if I am any celebrity and like Jake Shane calls me, I'm like, it's the L prank call.

Yeah. But I still thought, but it's a good one because I still thought it was really, really funny. No, I was like, I don't think this is on the level. But I do think that here's what I, can we agree that if it's real that she might have people's grandparents in her basement? Sure. I thought you said you didn't have a conspiracy.

I do think it's really funny. I hope she was the one who came up with the idea of making it that she'd run Lauren Michael suffer with her car. But then like the tears. I want to do S&L again. That was the funniest part when she was like, I don't want to, I want to do S&L again. Yeah.

Okay. So I hadn't really considered that it's all fake and we're just being totally played. Food for thought. Food for thought. All of it is. So a tricky album to pull a next album appetizer from. It is for me. I asked you the question.

Is she a pop star? Is she R&B? Is she rock? You know, I would rather see the... I mean, she made a comment in this cycle that there was a time in which people were like, you need to listen to more pop music. So I sort of wonder, what is actually on her

go-to playlist. Does she listen to Ben Platt all the time? Does she listen to Missy Elliott all the time? Or does she listen to like Joan Jett? I don't know.

I am in the process of finding a wedding photographer and I was looking at a website. And all of a sudden, the biggest jump scare of Ben Platt's face just like in front of my eyeballs because I get...

Wait, what's the connection between Ben Platt and wedding? This photographer had photographed Ben Platt's wedding and it was on the website a bunch. And got permission to use that? Yeah, apparently. Or if Ben Platt, if you're listening...

It must have been a good discount. Ben Platt, you must have been a good discount. It might have been password protected. I don't remember. I think I was like on my phone too when I click on it and all of a sudden Ben Platt's face like looking very sort of pensively out directly to the camera.

It's like right in front of my eyeballs. Anyway, that was just a little experience I had in my personal life. We're going to move on. I am just not there. You would like to see her go in kind of like a rock and roll direction. Is that what I was getting from what you were saying? No. I think we could leave the rock and roll to Olivia.

Oh, okay, okay, okay. Because I think that rock as a genre doesn't always, won't always allow that voice to just do what it can do. Yeah. The question really that we're asking this entire podcast

is what is her lane? We've, we really, every pop star needs a lane. What is Renee's Lane? And Renee's Lane is first that she is like a star, she is a legitimate EGOT contender.

Yeah. And she could definitely EGOT. That would be cool. Yes, she is. Does she have an Emmy? She ain't got an E or a G or an O or a T. Okay. But she's a legitimate contender down the road.

So all of those things, save she's got the chops for acting. But most of those things, let's just say. Hinge on that voice. So let's put it forward. Let's get it. Yeah, that's what I want to see. Yeah, I think that's probably a little bit more possible in pop.

I mean, that's not to say that even, you know, even someone like an Ariana Grande, right, is pretty rarely going for it vocally to the extent that she is capable of. Yeah. But I agree with you that figuring out how- There's a richness to this voice that Ariana, Ariana has got a crazy cool voice, but there's a, I don't know, there's a richness to René's. It's like a buttery, not to not to, not to do. Somelier words again, but there's a, there's a butteriness too. There you are. Tasting notes of crem fresh and... Cremm fresh and forest floor. Three-day-old catty are. And a hint of toilet bowl. Oh, God. No, there's no hint of toilet bowl in Renee Rapp's voice. There is none. I'm with you.

Let's talk about some lyrics, because we both said that we think there's some really good writing on this album, and then we haven't really gotten a chance to dive into it. Yeah. I'm not saying I think this is the best lyric. I do want to talk about two moments in the first verse of Leave Me Alone. Okay. One is that it does bother me that she says she puts her phone on, don't disturb. Why?

Because it's do not disturb. Okay. Now this is the writer and you coming out. You don't care. You're just like, get over it. Okay. And I will get over it. Don't be a nerd.

Okay. Do you, did you have heard the lyric, Even Line My Lips Just to Match My Nipples. Yeah, and I am glad that you brought this up because that is not something that I wanted to have to say on this podcast. But I was curious about it. Do you understand what's being referenced here? I don't want to say yes and be wrong.

So, no. No. Do you have an idea? Do you have a hypothesis? I don't want to talk about it. Tell me. No, I want to know what your hypothesis is. No, I do not want to talk about this. Okay. So there is a sometimes referenced piece of, you know, beauty advice, passed down woman to woman.

Okay. Which is that a good way to find a really good natural. lip color that you could buy in a lip liner that will kind of enhance your natural features but not look too fake

is to... I am so glad I didn't answer this question. Is to buy a shade... Is to buy a shade of lip liner that is the same tone as the outermost part of your nipples. And that's just like

lore that gets passed down in... That's just what? what we gals talk about, you know, every once in a while. You learn something new every day. Nora, I really learn something every time we're together. What did you think was the best lyric? I think it's from that so funny. I think the first line, which is you loaded up the chamber with secrets only you knew, dressed up my anger and tailored it to suit you.

You loaded the chamber with secrets only you knew. dressed up my aim to suit you Mm-hmm As a writer, you must love it What a bunch of plays on words There's all sorts of nerdy things That you could reference, nerdy sort of That is a really strong

That's a strong song lyrically I think that's probably the overall strongest song lyrically And even the stuff about the lawyer And like it's just, it's vivid and that's probably the closest that I felt to feeling compelled to get into some corners of Reddit and understand what's really going on because it just, that there was a realness to that that captivated me. I do also, the end of, I think you'd like that wouldn't you?

But I need you to know the thought of getting back together makes me want to die alone. Yeah. I just hope whatever is. next for Renee Rap. Whatever is next for Renee Rap. Like, keep being a BITCHH. I love it.

Like, that, that I'm so, keep being mad at people. Keep holding grudges. Like, I just hope she never changes in that regard. I really find it endlessly compelling. Yes.

The brand can be attitude. We just, let's get the absolute monster hit that, connects the dots, and this woman is egot worthy. So it's not going to go into an egot, but what is your album grade? What are you grading it? I gave it a solid B.

Oh, I really thought we were going to get a B plus from you. I gave it a solid B. I don't know. I wonder if I'm harsh on her because I expect, I just think she's capable of so much. He's sound disappointed. No, I'm not. I'm actually not at all. But I just, I don't feel, I don't feel any need to like hold her hand, you know? I just, I know that she's got it. I know that she can do it. But I did give it a B. I gave it a B. I think that's fair. I think that it's fair. I think that it, from a quality perspective, actually earns B plus. I'm going to, like, if I make a playlist from our 2025, Good Girl will be on it.

Absolutely. I will run through that song in the same way that I'm coming back to the Lord's song if she could see me now. I'm excited and I'm excited to play a lot of these songs like Good Girl, like Kiss It Kiss It,

like Shy. I'm excited to play them for my friends who maybe aren't listening to this because I do think that they're not in front of their faces and if I put them there, they'll be excited about them and go, oh, what is this? This is good.

I do think that I'm probably, like, that's how that discovery is going to happen in some cases. But I, like, there are a few songs here where I feel like if I put it on when people are over, it'll go well. Look, there's two ways here to do this.

One is get a team, get a band, get a group of people in a room and make an album from start to finish. Fewer collaborators to get more consistency from front to back

and hope that that by the way, that's the Dan Nigro approach, right? Yeah. He takes the artist in the room and boom, they go, and you do it. I think that that is what we're going to hear on the Sabrina Carpenter record

in a few weeks. I think we're going to hear something and I say this without judgment of quality that is more consistent from front to back that's going to feel like it was a small group that went front to back and created. The other way is to keep throwing things against the wall and hope that you do get Halo, right? That one of the writers that you wheel in the room

gives you halo or gives you a Julian Benetta banger from one direction. Take your pick. Steal my girl. your favorite song i i do boy i do love that song uh but i i think um those are the choices that she has so let's see let's see where she goes from here it is ultimately on on her to make a decision about who you know uh who who who to go with and these are the choices that when you start this project i think that now she has luxury to just try some things and there are a lot of people

who she built relationships with over the course of this album, clearly, because there's a lot of folks who, Travis Barker's playing drums on the last track for crying out loud. Yeah, cool. She's in the sectors, for sure. She's in the sector. So get out there and try some things. And let's see if we can get that song

that takes both Renee's attitude and her egotability and turns it into the song that puts her into the stratosphere. She's close. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Princeiotti. he's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kaiya McMullen for producing this episode. And we'll talk to you next week.