Every Single Album - 'Brat and it’s completely different but also still brat' | Every Single Album: Charli XCX

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

Nora and Nathan break down Charli XCX's 'Brat' remix album and how it's "brat and it's completely different but also still brat." They talk about the collaborators that Charli chose to work with on this, like ‘The 1975’ and Ariana Grande (1:00), why this album offers an interesting glance into the future of music (19:38), and how this record caps off one of the best album rollouts of the year (32:54). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, this is a true story. I have a friend who once faked his own death so he could have more time to watch his favorite TV show. In my new podcast, Truthless, I'm talking to people about the lies they tell, from forging new identities to taking their love of Game of Thrones a little too far. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Brian Phillips. Listen to Truthless on Spotify or wherever. you get your podcasts. Welcome to every single album.

I'm Nora Prince-Iotti. And I am here, as always, with Nathan Hubbard, who I hope is enjoying brat fall, question mark. Nathan, is that what season it is? It's still Bradfall. It's completely different, but also still brat. That's what we're talking about today. We're talking about the Charlie X-EX remix album that came out last week.

I've had a few days with it. But Nathan, before we start, I want to hear how you listen to to this album because obviously, yes, this is a full collection of new remixed songs, which makes it an album in and of itself in a certain way. But obviously, this is an extension of the Brad album that we've already talked about. So how did you process this new output from Charlie over the weekend? Well, it is completely different, which is not what I expected, even though she tried to tell us in the title. But also still Brad, it's crazy. It really is. And so I found myself bouncing between new and old and listening to the remix and then going back and listening to the

original because so many of these songs are completely different and just have tiny little elements of the original. And so in some cases, I was going back to try to find exactly what was picked up and used and repurposed in the new version. So this was stunning to me. I mean, we're going to talk about it, but I really did not expect something that for a lot of these tracks is so unique and different and really something totally new. And was there anything as you went back and you did that comparison? Did you come away with any kind of basic thesis about what the purpose of this project was, if there was anything that she was sort of saying either about the process of making music, of creating songs, of riffing off of

songs that already exist, or about, you know, the ethos of brat in and of itself? I'm not sure about the ethos of brat, but I do think this is a really kind of radical statement on what a song is and that a song can be repurposed and inhabited in a whole new body. And that it's sort of in this, I've been thinking so much. about how the evolution of technology and we're right on the cusp of AI becoming a real thing that can help, you know, sort of dramatically increase the number of ideas that get used in music creation. And she sort of is embracing it and sort of foot forward on this notion that what a song is can sort of be reimagined. And that, you know, girl so confusing,

is probably the least different of the songs on this thing, right? Like the 1975 version is completely different. And there's a piano part that sort of runs in major... In opposition to what happens on the original track, right? I mean, it's just a really interesting... It's just an interesting idea this whole album is... I'm not sure that the point... point isn't like, are they better? Is it, you know, is this version cooler or different? It's just,

the point is really that at this moment in time with this intersection of technology as we get to the sort of edge of the forest, as we always say, of like what can be done under the traditional chords and structure of what really started as rock music in the 50s, we sort of repurposed all of the chord progressions and that now it's about taking these ideas and whether it's words or small melodies and just repurposing them and that it is still the same song

and I think that's a really cool interesting idea that this album represents. It is really cool. I also I found it an interesting kind of rumination on the experience

of Brat for her in the first instance. And it's interesting that you bring up the fact that Girl So Confusing Featuring Lord is actually one of the songs, one of the remixes that's musically the most similar to the original. And I don't think it was a purposeful red herring, but it maybe led me to expect a little bit more along those lines. Yeah, well, guess with Billy was kind of the same too. Yeah. And I think those songs maybe did that in a different way in addition to setting those expectations musically, where in both of those cases,

the remix is is sort of about the same thing. It's either, you know, it's Lord presenting the other side of the thought process of what is this friendship, quasi-professional relationship, how are they understanding each other as two women? But it's about the same song. Like, the song has the same basic topic, which is the sort of awkwardness and, you know, the stories you create in your head about how somebody else. feels about you. They both were in conversation about that. You know, guess is a little bit more of a silly song, but I think same thing. Like, Billy's still on there talking about underwear. Yeah. And then so many of those remixes, of these remixes, we end up hearing Charlie talking about

this exact new phase in her career where she has become more of a mainstream artist and a bigger artist and someone who's like really occupied the center of the zeitgeist and her dealing with that and writing about it, which like really like it kind of stopped me in my tracks. Like I just wasn't totally expecting it. And it just was striking to me to, you know, hear the new sympathy as a knife, which I think has some of that. It's a knife when you're finally on top. Because let you feel the next step.

They want to see you for. I think even like the line in her verse on Rewind where she says like all this money makes me competitive. When I look in the mirror, I don't see no reflect. All this money makes me competitive. Gotta get more living more like sex. And it's just like you can hear that she's talking about right now in her life and what these last however many months have meant to her and like what positions it's put her in. And it just felt like very immediate to me in a way that was exciting, but that I didn't totally expect.

So like to the extent that something sort of stopped me in my tracks here, it wasn't really what she did musically with these songs. I was just sort of like, I didn't know you were going to be talking about this stuff here. Yeah. Well, there's sort of always been through this campaign, this tension. Because Charlie has existed kind of in the underground, just like this music. Right? Yeah.

Sort of rooted in in like the rave scene. And this music itself has had this unveiling and been brought out into the sunlight in the same way at the same moment that Charlie has as well sort of gone from being an underground almost cult hero to being an actual pop star. And so the music sort of is reflecting what's happening in real life with her. I think that tension is really interesting, and it makes it more to your point, I think, I'm engaged more because of how much truth she's speaking on this album. Everything from should I stop birth control to how weird and difficult it is to suddenly be thrust to the level of stardom that a number of her co-collaborators on this remix album already exist in. So I want to get into some of these indebted. individual tracks and I want to hear what stood out to you the most. But I've heard you comment just before we do that, that from a sort of marketing perspective, from a brand management, from an artist

making moves to create a moment in culture, that this is just like, it has to be up there with the most successful album rollouts ever. And to me, this feels like another example of just how note perfect. This has gone because I make a joke to you at the beginning of this podcast that, yeah, it's Brat Fall. She already got to kind of own a season. And then now with this album, I don't, you know, I don't think it's going to be as big in and of itself. But it, does this to you feel like another successful continuation of being able to continue to engage people the way that she's engaged people in how she's rolled all this stuff out and how she's been able to sort of like iterate

what was originally one album, but then became something that had a life on social media and a tour. And then now this remix album, which I guess I'm asking you how you think it fits into that. Yeah, I think it is part of the marketing campaign to be sure. But what's telling to me is how many people came to her to do this. there are just not a lot of albums that have collaborations like this. And this obviously came together fairly quickly,

only in the last few months, right, as this album kind of took storm. So can I stop you for a second? So that's what you, so, and actually, I don't know if there's stuff out there. I haven't seen anything, but stuff out there of exactly what the timeline was. But what you would assume, which makes sense to me, is that Brat comes out in the spring, takes off, becomes a phenomenon.

Charlie, obviously, someone who's spent a lot of time in, you know, in DJ circles is no stranger to the idea of a remix being something that that can be creatively fulfilling. And then the kernel of the idea of, oh, let's do a full remix album comes. Like, how do the individual ones that we'd already heard, the one with Lord, guess with Billy, talk talk with Troy Savant. Like how do those fit into that timeline? Well, Brat came out on June 7th. And so we're talking about,

you know, it really hasn't been that long. I know, four months. And so I think the Lord one happened quickly because it was so surprising. And Lord sort of reached out and made that happen.

And I think that probably triggered some thinking around whether they could do this. She and George Daniel had been in the clubs playing this for people and you could hear that sort of live in real time, he was doing a lot of remixing of this thing. And I think it just became this idea that the album itself could take more, in these songs, could take more than one form. And so she took that and ran with it. It sounded like even over the last few weeks before this was released, it was still coming together. Some pieces of it we're still coming together.

Was this, you can tell me if this is, if, if you don't know or if it's hard to say or whatever, but like was this out in the, was like the knowledge that this was happening out in the industry as like, oh, if you're working with someone, maybe take a shot and try to get so-and-so on the Charlie Remix record or, huh, who would be a good person to feature on the Charlie remix record or like, was that sort of a known thing? No, I mean, it wasn't like, Chapel Rhone just fired her manager. And at Austin City Limits,

the festival yesterday, it was like hunger games. All these managers flew in to try to see her. She didn't see anybody, by the way. But it was, that's an industry open secret, and everybody's sort of trying to position themselves to climb up the ladder

and try to work with her. This one was something very different. I think she was selective and reached out with purpose to the people that she wanted to do this. So you think Charlie really curated this guest list. Yeah. Okay, well, then let's talk about, because I think she did a really good job. Let's talk about what stood out and who stood out. What really grabbed you in terms of the new track list?

Yeah, I'm interested to hear your thoughts. I thought I might say something stupid featuring the 1975 was pretty fascinating. I thought Ariana Grande's verse on Sympathy as a Knife was really cool. I was super into Bonnie Vair

and I think about it all the time weaving in Bonnie Rates Nick of Time which he's done a cover of you can go find it on YouTube Those were the ones that for me really grabbed me That I hadn't already heard

I liked Apple Japanese house singing Apple I thought was pretty cool Kept waiting Here's the problem is I love Apple so much That I kept waiting for the Apple chorus And I really wanted it just one time I was like come on Charlie like, come on, go on, go on, go on.

I love the song so much. And it never quite comes. But I, that's, to me, that's like one of the most sort of listenable versions. It just sounds really good. And I love Japanese sounds. But it is interesting that in some cases, she literally excluded the core hook or the melody of the song. And yet it is still Apple, right? That, I thought, was a really cool idea.

Because there are moments when you listen to these things where you're waiting for parts that don't come through. And you can maybe be disappointed by it, but then it forced me to go back and listen through to the original song and say, okay, so what did she pull out? And why did she or the artist that she's collaborating with make that choice?

There's, a club classics has more 365 in it than anything. When I'm at the house, yeah, I'm moving that. 3,65 party girl. Should we do a little key? Should we have a little line? Right? It's totally different. So there just was, it's a fascinating insight into the mind of the artists who were doing this. It's sort of a mirror that reflects the way that they think about the song. It gives you behind the scenes footage almost of how the artist herself or himself, depending on who was collaborating, actually received the original. Well, I also think it's a it's a comment on this sort of ongoing dialogue between Charlie and the quote-on-quote mainstream, right? Or the mainstream versus the underground.

I think that framing can be reductive sometimes, but it's obviously been this through line in her career. And there's been times when she's made more kind of straight down the middle. obviously hooky music and it hasn't seemed to be her favorite stuff. And I just, I kept thinking about that with some of these because she's making this album in this place where she is bigger and has more eyes on her in a broader audience than she did when she made brat initially. And I wonder if there's something to the fact that from that position for some of these songs, she kind of denies you the satisfaction of the hook a little bit.

She's just, she's not going to give it to you. She's not quite going to give you every single thing that you want. Yeah, I think that's the point. That songs are uniquely assembled, you know, collections of components, and you can break them down into their individual components and reassemble them in a bunch of other ways. Like, this is distinctly not a cover album.

Right. of other artists just covering the songs. It is something deeper and more richly interesting than that, which is songs are just a cluster of these little individual bits that like Legos or something, you can make a totally different thing out of it. Well, she wants you to see, like, she wants you to see all of the base Legos, right?

She doesn't want you to just come away with, oh, well, here's the little Lego guy that stands. on top of the Lego Tower. Like, I want you to understand all of the component pieces that make this instead of going for just the most obviously, the part that stands out the most

or the part that's the most immediately satisfying, which is sort of cheeky and fun, I think. Yeah, I'd really like to know more about the creative process here and whether she just handed it over to someone and said, go do what you want and tell me how you want me

to participate in this, or whether there was more direct instruction because, again, I might say something stupid is very, very different. And you wonder if that is really just how Maddie Healy and George heard the song, or if they intentionally came back with something totally unique? What instructions did she give to these artists around how to take it and go? Or did she just say, hey, we're doing a remix project. Take my music and see what happens? Yeah. What did you think about, about, I might say something stupid?

I loved it. I actually thought it was, you know what I thought, really when I heard it? I was like, the rehabilitation of Maddie Healy after the Taylor Swift Teardown campaign is almost complete. I thought the exact same fucking thing. Completely. His voice on this is great. It's interesting and it made me ready for more 1975 music, even though I know it's going to be a little. while. Well, and even, you know, the Japanese house has toured with the 1975 and I think there's some influence and some inspiration there. The Apple remix, actually, to me, sounds like a very

1975 kind of song. And listening to that, I was like, I was in my elevator and it came on one of the first times that I was listening through the album. And I was like, oh, fuck. Like, I got to keep listening to this and I'm enjoying listening to this. But I really want to turn on the 1970. right now. Like, they've done it again. Yeah. Well, there is this, the cool kids are assembled here. And it's not the big famous kids that there's a few of them.

But it's kind of the underground cool kids that have assembled to make this. It's why it was interesting to see Ariana on Sympathy as a knife. Really interesting. Yeah. That's sort of what I was thinking about when I asked you, like, okay, do you think that these were all, the call always always came from Charlie's side

and she was just picking and choosing? Or do you think that anybody successfully pitched themselves for this album? Not that I think that like Charlie wouldn't choose Ariana. It just, it stood out to me because I was like, okay, most of these, most of these guests, I get it. Like I, the idea fits into my understanding

of sort of what she was trying to do with Brad. and who the Brat Avengers are. And then there's Ariana Grande. And it's cool. Who was hosting Saturday Night Live and in the Wicked movie in the days after this all came out. So that feels like an extension of the marketing campaign around. Well, but again, that's where I'm like, that's, that's Ariana's campaign, right? Like, that doesn't have anything to do the Brat.

Yeah. So if I had to guess, if there was just one where somebody, found their way in that way. Like that's, that's, that's what I would guess. But I like, I think it's interesting. I think her feature is interesting. I think that is one of those songs where I'm, you know, the original sympathy is a knife. The story of that song, yes, it's about certain insecurities that stem from having a position

of some degree of fame. But the interfacing that's happening in that story between Charlie and. you know, we're pretty sure Taylor, is between two artists. And then I found it interesting that a lot of the Ariana remix is about fans and is about, like, media and fans and the public.

Yeah. It got repurposed to be, yeah, a little bit about fame. Well, and about, like, about fame, not about two famous people kind of interfacing through that. but about a famous person and non-famous people, which actually in and of itself, I find less interesting,

but I find it interesting that that was the choice, if that makes sense. Like, that's one of the things that tells me that part of this project was that Charlie had some new experiences over the summer and was dealing with sort of like a new level of everything

and wanted to talk about it and wanted to write about it and that to me. Yeah. Kind of clip. is more to be learned about how this all came together. You know what I want to know? You know, I really, really, really want to know. Is who the fuck chose Storm King?

Yeah. Brilliant. No, totally brilliant. I mean, what's crazy about it, right? Is this here to four, we had only seen her, like a vampire, right? Out in the clubs, in the dark, with the sunglasses, with the big stuff. And then all of a sudden it's this beautiful. fall blue sky sunny day and then afternoon.

Upstate New York foliage, open air art museum. Here's your Alexander Calder on the left. Here's Charlie XX on the right. But if you like, and this is a little bit of a sort of New York area thing, but like this is Brooklyn Hipster Central. It's just when they go upstate. And it's the rollout continues to be note perfect. like how she knows to choose these things.

Obviously, I think it's because she just sort of lives that life a little bit. So she fucking knows what the club rats do on the weekends other than go to the club. And it's go to Storm King. But it just really made me laugh. It has been a flawless, absolutely flawless marketing campaign. And I think there's something for everybody who is releasing music to learn from this. Again, she has owned a season. she has owned a color, she has owned an adjective,

she has sort of just kind of taken over. I did hear that she herself called the head of the recording academy to lobby to keep this album in the electronic category and out of the pop category. I think the committee had determined that it was going to go into the pop category, which... Sorry, this album as in brat. A brat, yes.

If it had gone into pop, obviously it would have gone head to head with a lot of the albums that we have been talking about this year, and that probably would have diminished its chances of winning all of the Grammys and staying in the electronic category, while it probably doesn't do great things for bands like... like justice, it does, I think, pretty well guarantee that she's going to win Grammys. And so that just tells me that she's very leaned into this. She is pulling some strings and it's not just her label being brilliant. This tells me a lot about Charlie the marketer as much as anything. That's interesting. And also, I mean,

I'm sure that has something to do with wanting to see it awarded, wanting to be strategic. I also, I wonder if that says anything about just how she thinks about it, like how she thinks about the album, what she thinks it stands for, and what she was trying to do with this project. Because the fact that she did this remix album does center the electronic nature of, of these songs. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be one or the other, right? But I wonder if that feels appropriate to her in a certain way.

And that has to do that as well. It kind of feels appropriate to me in that, as we talked about, she's brought this music out into the mainstream as she's brought herself out into the mainstream. And I think naming it in that way and the tribute to DJ culture that this remix album is Yeah. It is important because I think it speaks, it's sort of what is in the DNA of it to me,

and it speaks to what music in the future is going to be like. I'm really, I'm still processing it, but I'm really excited about this idea that songs can exist in so many different formats. I mean, think about what would happen if somebody took the chapel record or the Taylor record and did this. And it's,

There's so much defensiveness from artists about the ways in which their music gets used, right? You have to approve it if it gets put in a movie. You have to, if it gets covered and put in a movie, there's all kinds of ways in which historically, and for good reason, by the way, because artists and their intellectual property have been exploited forever. But this feels a little bit like, you know, this feels a little bit like, you know, this feels a little bit like when Grimes open-sourced her vocal and let people go make stuff, it kind of feels tech forward and embracing some uncertainty.

Now, clearly Charlie had a whole bunch of control over this project, but it does, it just sort of portends a really interesting future of music in which what a song is can be redefined. Well, it is tech forward, but it also reminds me to give a really not tech forward example of like, you know those monks that make like meticulous designs out of sand every day and then they pour it into the lake? No, but I'll take your word for it. Okay, this is the thing. I don't know those monks. It's like about impermanence and it's about like just enjoying creation for the process of it.

There's like some group of monks. I don't know. I saw this on a school field trip in like eighth grade. And they make these beautiful designs out of sand. This is a real fucking thing. People are going to have heard of this. Okay. They make really intricate designs out of sand.

Yes. And they spend like hours and hours doing this. And at the end of the day, they just dump it all out. Yeah. And I don't know. Maybe that's not what Charlie X. doing, but it came to mind because she's not, she's not precious about anything. Yeah.

This is the most successful, I mean, you know, with the exception of like, I love it or boom clap or whatever, which is sort of a different type of animal. But like, in terms of a full album, this is the most successful project of her career. It is like widely beloved. It is critically acclaimed. It's fun. It's cool. And I could really understand the impulse to be like, okay.

Let's like, let's preserve it in amber. Nobody touch Brat. Brat is my baby. Brat is my precious. Right. And it's so cool that she's just like, no. You can turn, you can rip all of these songs apart and turn them all on their heads. And it's going to be additive.

And it's, you know, the other songs stand on their own. But we can bring other voices in. We can bring other sort of narrative ideas in the lyrics. We can bring other sonic ideas in. and take out some of the choruses, take out some of the things that you might associate the most with it, and it's still all going to add to the overall project.

And there's just something about that that's so fun and cool. Break it all down to the protons and then reassemble it. And yeah, you're right, it doesn't have the hook, but it is still Apple. And that's a really cool idea. Like, you can't really do the dance to it. No. That's a choice, man.

Like, that's kind of crazy. Yeah, I think it's the point. I really think it's the point. Even though I like to do the apple dance. And I want to go on record here as saying that George should do the apple dance. Please do the apple dance. Was there anything you didn't like or that was hard to listen to? Can I answer that question in one second and tell you something that I was expecting to be a real hater about?

and then really wasn't. Just speaking my truth, I was, like, geared up to not appreciate Bonny Ver's presence on this record. Oh, really? Yeah, I was like, that was the one thing that when I just saw the list, you know, all the billboards were coming out,

something in me just was like, I don't need another one of the thing where you have the introspective, pop song, and then Bonnie Vair is going to show up and say like the most devastating four sentences you've ever heard in Bonnie Vair voice and then go away. Like I just don't need it. I've done it. I've heard it. I like, I don't know. I just really was prepared to not dig it. And then, good God. It's so good. Like, it's so good. I think it's my favorite on the album. Yeah. I got psyched at the end of that song when they had.

actually pulled in Bonnie's voice. They actually sampled her. That was fucking cool. I mean, just when she, like, the, the, the Charlie part where she's like, I'm exactly the same, but I'm older. And then you have, like, quivering Bonnie Vera voice being like, aren't you scared? I was like, God damn it. Justin.

I'm exactly the same, but I'm older now. And I go even more stress on my body. I can't wait. for the Bonne Ver album. I'm very excited. It's coming. I might make you talk a little bit about it. So in terms of what didn't work for me, I will say that I'm torn on, I love the gag of I might say something stupid. Oh. Featuring the 1975. Just like, that's a good joke to me and that'll always be a good joke to me. It's kind of not an accident that I said to you earlier that actually actually. Apple, the Japanese house remix of Apple, which to me sounds very much like something, a song the

1975 would make. Yeah. That's the song that made me excited to just go dig in with old 1975 and think about when we might get some new stuff. I will say that how that, how I might say something stupid wound up is in the mode of my least favorite, the 1975 stuff, which is like the really. sort of almost atmospheric bucket

that they do some stuff in where it's just kind of a wash of sounds, it's a lot like those opening tracks that they do on a bunch of albums. And I find it hard to grasp. Okay. There's just sort of... It's too ethereal for you?

Yeah, it's too ethereal. That's exactly the right way to put it. So actually, I have to say, for as much as I love the gag, just simply of the song title and the choice to have them work on that song, the actual remix doesn't do a lot for me. What did you think about 365 featuring Shy Girl?

I don't do enough cocaine for this. Yeah. Yeah, there was a lot there. That one didn't land for me. I didn't... What do you think Obama thought? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. There's no way he's listening to this. Zero percent chance. I don't know. If he, like, if 365 original is ending up on the year-end playlist, you don't think that he's giving the remix just like one spin? Again, I'm convinced that was a Sasha and Malia, like, joke that they just, they told him to put that on. And he had no idea. Club classics I didn't love either. But, like, those are the real hard house dance. sounds that, I don't know, they just didn't. I actually, club classics I was into.

Okay. When I go to the cup, I want to hear the club of six. It's like, it's like, when I'm in the club, yeah, I'm moving that. When I'm at the house, yeah, I'm moving that. And I'm not saying that I wasn't into 365 with Shy Girl. Okay. It's just, it's, it's a very specific mode. Which of these do you think you'll go back to?

Do you think any of these will, like, live on a playlist for you? I think the... So, this is interesting. The list of songs where the remix will live as kind of the canonical version, I don't know if I think there's anything other than Girl So Confusing with Lord and then Guess with Billy. Yeah. Yeah. I do.

Try it, bite it, lick it, spit it, pull it to the side and get all up in it, kiss it bright, it, and I fear it. Charlie likes boys, but she knows I'd hit it. I do think those two, the remix, the remix will sort of live on. Yeah. As the version of the song that is canon. I don't know. I like the, my thing with Apple is that I want to listen to both of them. Like, I want both of them.

Well, you have them both. Right. So, like, I could see myself putting Apple remix and Apple Original on even the same playlist. I will give you one that I think, where I think it might kind of sneakily replace it, is Mean Girls with Julian Casablancus. Yeah. Who, like, really, I mean, I know there is a new Voids album that I, frankly, haven't spent time with. And maybe this is a signal that I should go to.

that. But like, part of me was just like, it's, I haven't heard Julian Casablancus's voice on a new song in a really long time. Like, that's wild man. And he sounds good. Yeah. There's going to be a Strokes album before too long.

Yeah, but it's just, it's been a minute. It has. It's been, it's like 2020, I think. Very talented being. So that was cool. Did you hear the Spring Breakers featuring Kesha that came out this morning?

Yes. Yes. Oh, these bitches rip off. Wish they could be OG. They're not. We go in psycho. We go in love. Yeah, me and Charlie with a pretty girl godzo. I was sort of less excited about it.

Well, it's pretty similar to the original. Yeah. Every time I make it so outrageous. Always going to list of people playing safe. Four, three, two, one. See you later. Crazy girl shit. Gonna go spring breaker.

I will say that I felt the. excited about the choice to involve Kesha. Okay. I just think that's savvy. I think, like, in the same way that Julian Casablancus epitomizes the, you know, downtown New York kind of indie slees vibe, which is part of the fabric of brat. There's something, like, Keshe's got something. She's got that, like, party girl vibe.

but in a way that's authentic and cool that really feels right within the context of this project. And obviously she's someone who's been through a lot and has a lot of goodwill. So the moment when she posted something and there was the green sign with Kesha backwards, like to me that was exciting where I was just like, oh, that's, These are two people that I, like the idea of these two people collaborating on something right now is exciting to me. Yeah, it was a little strange to me that they waited until now. Well, do you think it's just because Spring Breakers was a bonus track? So they're sort of doing a, like they're mimicking that rollout somehow.

Yeah, I think it's all part of the marketing campaign. It's like you think you got it and then it just keeps extending the conversation into a new week. They just didn't do It just sounds much more similar to the original than most of these But I like spring breakers So I was into it This is just a very very very interesting project And I wonder if this is it

Or if there'll be more So that's kind of the message here Is that these building blocks Could be repurposed in any number of ways Do you think The bandwidth is out there? there for that much more. I mean, I think that's the point of this,

is she could give these songs to 17 other collaborators and they could come back with something that sounds new and fresh and, again, totally different, but still brat. And do you think that would continue to be exciting to people? Because I will say that for as exciting as this was, unless they are truly brilliant, Yeah.

I don't know that I have two more Brat remix albums in me. Like, I don't know that, like, for instance, the Willow remix experience, I'm not sure that the Brat album needs to go through that evolution. Yeah. The Willow remix experience is very different than this. Do you think Elvira's mad? I was just going to say, please keep Elvira away from this. I'm sorry, Alvira. You catch so many strays on this podcast.

Blondish, you can stay. Yeah, shout out blondeish. Was there anything that didn't totally click for you? No, I mean, it's the ones I said. I didn't love 365. I wasn't totally, you know, club classics. But when I heard them and I was like, that's when I was, I caught myself. I was like, wait, the point isn't, is this better or do I like it? It's just like, let me spend time with each of these remixes and understand the elements that got pulled from the original around which an entirely new version has been constructed.

It got me out of the, do I like this, do I not? Which, again, I don't think is the point. Is this one better than the old? I mean, it's interesting to see what would you go back to. I just became more reflective on why the choices had been made and what that means about the way that the artist herself thinks about the song. What are the parts of the original that endured here? And I wonder why that is. That's why I'm really curious about the actual process for creation

and how much of a hand she had versus handing it over to the artist and saying, you pull it out. Either way, it's an interesting bit of insight into the mind of the artist who created it. I'm just not sure if sympathy is a knife, or I might say something stupid, is that really Maddie's interpretation and the way that he received the song and choices that he made to pull it out? Or was it more orchestrated by Charlie? What will you return to? I will come back to I might say something stupid. I think it's super cool.

What it, like, okay, sell me on it. Talk to me about what musically interests you in the journey from the original to the remix. It's the counterplay. On the original, there are these minor chords that are a little bit dissonant, and there's just this sweetness to, I might say, something stupid. And the way that it builds. Again, I like bouncing back and forth between the two and just hearing what are the elements, What are the lines that he pulled, right, about being famous?

Yeah. Not quite. Makes me a problem on fame's but not quite. Yeah. I will go take another listen to both the original and the remix with that in mind. Because I do think that's interesting. And I also just like, I have the second I saw the track list, I had an endless amount of goodwill for just whatever we were.

going to come out of that project. So maybe that'll be a way in to the music for me. Yeah. I mean, the Bonnie Vair, too, right? You'll go back to that. Yeah, I will. I will. Musically, I didn't adore it,

but I adored hearing Bonnie Raid mixed into a Charlie XX song by Boni Vair. Who do you think, like, who got the most out of being featured here? Hmm. Let's wait and see how these things actually stream. And I would have said there's a rehabilitation of Maddie Healy that happens here. I think there are some lesser-known artists that got a feature. I think, I mean, the Billy video was... Yeah. But Billy didn't need the support, but I think she got a lot of attention for it. Maybe it's Lord. Yeah, maybe it's Lord. That's an interesting idea because it's unclear to me what Lord,

it's unclear to me what Lord is trying to do with this, if this is sort of brought her back into a certain discussion that maybe she'd taken a step back from. I don't quite know what she's, what ends she's going to try to use that for. Like, I don't know what Lord wants right now, which is cool, which is interesting. I heard the arena was unbelievably, loud when she showed up on stage in New York. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, haven't ever heard an arena that loud is what I heard. I just think it's interesting. Like, what is Lord going to do next? She's going to make music. That's what she's going to do next. Do you think she's working on an album right now? I do.

Or you don't think she's just like on the beach? No. She's working. Okay. Interesting. That's a good one. I really, this is maybe specific to me. but like Julian Casablanca's like really reentered my consciousness.

The second I heard his voice because his voice is so distinct that there was something about just like listening to him sing a song. It like, I don't know. I had like a Pavlovian reaction to that. And I just. Sounds like it. Yeah. It also like they were playing the strokes at my coffee shop this morning.

So it just really felt like he was following me around. It's really, it's really. you're down a rabbit hole. Great. And then I don't know. I guess I sort of, I'm with you that they didn't do the most interesting thing with the song. But I hope it does something for Kesha. Because I just think Kesha being in the Bratosphere is something I'm in favor of.

Yeah. It's going to be about music from here. She certainly got enough of an audience. Did you see? did you see the meme that was circulating about the IKEA knife called the ESA knife? No.

Okay, they sell like a shitty knife at IKEA where the name of the knife is spelled I with an umlout SSA and so when you see the listing online, And it just looks like it says, is the naive.

And Charlie tweeted it. And it was funny. Fantastic. That's all. That's actually what I have for you on Brat. And it's completely different, but it's still Brat. I think that's a good summation. I mean, let's see how this thing streams, really.

That's going to tell us about how it's actually received. Because, again, this has now become, like, for the cool kids. but I'm curious to see these versions are I think objectively less melodic and less listenable but I think people

people will not do a lot of replacing of their streaming I think they're less listenable like they're less easily digestible they ask you to work a little bit harder which I think is purposeful that's right and so watching the streaming

numbers. We'll come back to it and revisit this discussion once we see whether this ends up being treated like a standalone album or whether it ends up being kind of a fun marketing. It's a lot of effort for it to just be about the marketing. Yeah. All right. We shall see. We shall see. Fun stuff to revisit. All right, Nathan, we will call it an episode. However, I'm going to ask you one question that I did ask you via text recently. Okay. But we are recording this. It is Monday. October 14th. At one point in our little every single album production calendar, we had an idea that next week, you know, the Eros Tour will be back. We'll have lots of stuff to talk about. But there were going to be albums from Joe Jonas. There was going to be an album from Sean Mendez. And then both of those things around the same time suddenly got moved. And the people want to know what the fuck is going on. And if anybody is up to something.

Clowns, clowns, clowns. Come on. Clowns. Sometimes the marketing campaign needs a little bit more work. Sometimes there's some concern about the single. Look, it's two weeks before an election. There's a lot of people who already bailed out of the fourth quarter of releasing their music because they just felt like they weren't going to be able to get attention.

So I think I wouldn't read too much into that. Did you see that Taylor had a snake purse? I did. On the record telling you I think reputation's coming. But it's not coming up to over 80. But you think it's coming after the TOR ends? I do. Okay.

All right. I'm prepared to be wrong about that. But that's what I think. And again, because I think she's going to go away for a little while. and she always has her finger on the pulse, as we know, and putting reputation out will buy her some time where she doesn't need to be active if she wants to rest for a bit.

I would think she might at some point want to rest. And so finishing the tour takes her out of the public consciousness for a while, if that's possible with Taylor Swift, but putting reputation out gives it some more legs where people can digest and process and listen to the vault tracks and she doesn't have to actually be out doing stuff then.

If you say so, I suppose. I'm sorry to disappoint. It's a knife when Nathan tells me I'm a clown. It's a knife when we have to end the podcast. But I suppose that's where we are. This has been every single album. As always, I'm Nora Prenziotti. He's Nathan Hubbard.

Thank you to the fabulous Kai McMullen for producing this episode and we'll talk to you next week.