Every Single Album - ‘Breakout’ | Every Single Album: Miley Cyrus

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

With ‘Breakout,’ Miley Cyrus took her first step away from being "Hannah Montana" and toward being "Miley Cyrus." Nora and Nathan discuss this album, which she released when she was just 15 years old (1:00). They talk of hits like "Seven Things" and "Breakout" (28:48), her power ballad about global warming called "Wake Up America" (40:46), and which songs best telegraphed where her career was heading (1:01:45). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi everyone, it's Amy Poehler, and I'm launching a new podcast called Good Hang. In preparation for that, I asked some of my friends to send in some videos and give me some advice. Just be yourself, and the guests will come. Just, if you're going to do this, really do it. Commit to it. Don't be the celebrity that this is their, like, sixth thing they're doing. Have a good podcast. Keep your approval rating. I hear you got a new gig, girl. That's so fabulous. So glad you're working.

Is it apart for me? I love true crime and cooking podcast. Is there any way you could combine the two? So you're doing a podcast? That is awesome. Would you happen to know my blood type? I've got to put it down on this form. Hey, I got an email from my agent saying I need to record a video for you for charity,

but then I clicked the link and it took me to a GoFundMe page. So I kind of have a bad feeling about this. Well, everyone has an opinion and a podcast. So, join me for good hang. It's rough out there. We're just trying to lighten it up a little. Welcome to every single album, Miley Cyrus. I'm Nora Pinciotti.

And as always, I am joined by Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, we are here to talk about breakout. The technical second studio album from one Miley Cyrus, who we are having so much fun getting into covering on this series. Glad to have you if you're just catching up. really had so much fun last week talking about Hannah Montana. Before we get to that, however, I wanted to touch down with you briefly

on the first weekend of Coachella because so many of our pop-girly faves performed last weekend during the first weekend. What did you think? Man, I thought Gaga was pretty impressive. And I had a little bit of skepticism because we've seen her in a lot of places. And I came away from that show being like,

when did she do this? Wow. Okay, thank you. And I was going to ask you the same thing because my number one takeaway, other than just Gaga-Cella, incredible reminder of what she's capable of, I was like, when was this rehearsed? When was this happening?

It really was a show for the YouTube streamers more than it was for the people on site, although I think she pretty well navigated both. But the chessboard view from above, you really only got when you looked at it. that way. And the, you know, when she died and they're cutting her out of the back, like, and all the weird, like, spy versus spy head things. And this dancing in the sand pit and all of that. Yeah, no, it, it made me think that they could package that into a Netflix thing or name your

streaming service. Throw it up there. And that would be on, I got some dishes to do later this evening. Like, that would be on my screen. Yeah. Putsing around my apartment immediately. Everybody tries to compare their favorite artist's performance at Coachella to Beyonce, because that really is the standard. And I think it always will be. But this was from a visual perspective as close as we've come to something that really on a standalone basis was impactful. It was not the same cultural moment. But boy, was it an impressive performance?

Yeah. I mean, it's simultaneously. I said this to someone recently. Like, it's like a useless comparison in some ways because it's apples and oranges. It's, it's Beyonce and it's Gaga. And then it's also the only comparison there is because I do think that that other than Beyonce, this is a standard setting showcase of what you can do with that time, what you can do, creating a set, creating a narrative that runs through performance.

Just being on for every second of a set. like that. Like, that was the thing that I just thought was staggering about it, is that she just

doesn't break for even a split second where you get anything less than the sense that she is 150% locked into everything that she's doing.

Yeah. I think when we went through the, the abracadabra video and all that stuff, like we were sort of joking about the dancing. Her work with Paris Gobel

on this is what made it, I think. I mean, everything going forward, have it be creative, directed, creatively directed and choreographed by Paris Goba because this was something to see. Have you had a chance to dive into any of the conspiracy theorizing about the choreography and Paris and Gaga staying away from Joanne Kromatica art pop in part because of the old core. choreography and beef with the old choreographer? Fuck no, I've been listening to Miley Cyrus. That's the right answer. I don't really think there's anything to it.

I think she skipped those sort of mid-career albums because essentially she's leaning in and embracing the connections between mayhem and the early stuff. Right. But the choreo is awesome. She looked awesome. Yeah, and I will just say for the record on how bad do you want me, I believe I saw some Taylor Swift references.

Oh, 100%. In the walking up the catwalk, in the lover colors in the background, I think, and it was intentional, and it was awesome. In the drum major outfit and doing the thing where she's pointing and going, let me see your hands. Like, that is a Taylor Swift ass. It was very Taylor Swift ass. Even the reputation body suit kind of made an appearance. I loved it. Not on that song, but in general.

I also loved Miss should have been a headliner. Charlie X-E-X, really playing herself up a bit on this one. The Billy appearance was fun. The Lord appearance was fun. Yeah. And then the screens at the end that sort of said, I don't want it to end, let it never end. She sort of gave Brat Summer an eternal life at the end of that show. It also felt so.

like Charlie's just such an appropriate festival artist because the people in the crowd, you know, let's not let's not make unsubstantiated allegations here, but I'm assuming substances were consumed. Everybody's wearing something completely ridiculous. Like they're having the time of their lives. It's just such a fun party. And at first I sort of felt bad that I was giving all my attention to Gaga and then went and spent some time. at least with the clips and videos of Charlie, and it seemed like she had a great set.

She did. The Maria's had a great set. All this was happening while Katie Perry was being shot into space. And revealing the set list for the tour that nobody's going to go to on her stupid little butterfly decal. Look, she does the work. She does the work. All that I've learned in the last three days is that I think we were too gentle on that album.

Anything else else? else anything else we're missing from Coachella. I am interested to see Weekend 2 if anybody particularly Gaga changes up the set list at all. I wouldn't count on it just because that was such an intricate performance that again, I am like, how much did this cost and when did you rehearse it? Yeah. But it's possible I could see her having a special guest or something to kind of put an exclamation point. Yeah. But yeah. But, uh, But this is a theater nerd acting out her greatest fantasies on stage and doing it incredibly well. It was very, very, very, very impressive.

Did you like when they cheered for Michael? I did. I liked all of Michael videos. Michael. Michael. It's fine. Michael. Whatever it takes to bring her back to pop.

Great job, Michael. All right. Speaking not of breaking, going back to pop, but perhaps breaking out of it a little or maybe not. let's go to our Miley Convo. First, I do want to reiterate how much fun it has been to hear from some of you about your nostalgic memories of the Hannah Montana era. Also from some people who had very little idea what we were talking about, had never heard those songs before,

did not watch or consume any Hannah Montana content whatsoever. And we're still just endlessly charmed, Nathan, by your dueling senses of, genuine appreciation and total befuddledment at how I was asking you to spend your time. I'm into this process, Nora, as usual. And I still, I mean, if we could actually ask Miley a question, this is not the first question I would ask her. But I really wonder whether she thinks about meet Miley Cyrus as her first album? Or whether it is, in fact, breakout?

It would be an interesting question because I think on some level, someone thought of breakout as the real first Miley Cyrus album, right? Like, it's there in the title. There's a lot more of her in the lyrical content of this album. Not that it's like a lyrically rich text,

but it is certainly reflective of a number of parts of who she actually was in that moment, not the kid in the blonde wig. For sure. And so this album, it comes out in July of 2008. Miley is 15. She writes most of, yeah, isn't that crazy? We're going to come back to that a few times. She was 15 years old.

wrote most of these songs while she was on tour at the end of 2007, early 2008, which was before she went to film Hannah Montana the movie, which came out after. One theme that peeks through in a lot of these lyrics, she was working really hard. Yeah. Well, and so is it any wonder that this show only lasts? for four years. I mean, I, yeah, they burned her out. I mean, maybe she burned herself out. I mean, this is a woman who works, but I, that is the thing that I take away from even just the way we're trying to organize and structure all of the content that was made between 06 and 2011,

really. It's just the sheer volume of it. Now, when you go back and look, she played a lot of shows on the best of both worlds tour. But in the aggregate, Miley Cyrus has not toured just in terms of the number of actual like arena shows that she's played in her career. She's played way less than some of her quote unquote peers or, you know, either contemporaries or before or afters, which makes her a pretty scarce resource, which is a great thing. If hypothetically speaking, you were going to go tour, you know, in the few. future. But I, I, I, that's the only part. I don't know how she could possibly have given that she was doing the show, given all the writing that she was doing. It just, it feels, again,

we don't learn these lessons. It happens over and over and over again. Now, we've done one direction already on this show, but boy, does it feel like a lot of what we heard from those boys, right? It feels like there was a larger machine that was monetizing the hell out of 15, 16 year old kids. and who didn't know any better and just wanted to do the work and knew that something was happening here. Well, and we're on some level living a dream and therefore didn't want it to end,

wanted to engage with it as much as possible, but also were working more intensely than most adults. Yeah. At a really young age. And it flows through some of the lyrical content of this album, small, little, subtle, rebellious ways. And it just, it is the American entertainment machine all in a nutshell here. And so, yes, that is, that is the takeaway that I just have from this whole era is, oh, my gosh,

the pedal was fully down. And you think, oh, well, and she's telling us through a lot of this music, it seems like it's great. and it seems like my life is glamorous. And all of the irony of it happening in the show, where she's trying to protect the normalcy and hide the glamour and then also sort of telling people that fame

and objectification and worship is not all it seems. That's what's happening in her actual real life. And it's just at 15 years old, the human brain is not built to withstand deification in the way that this, at the time child, young woman, was made to feel. And I'll just say, you know, there are lots of industry stories about Miley Cyrus at this time that all basically distilled down to their first impressions of interacting with this.

Again, I'm going to say child because she was a child. But to everyone else, she came across as a woman, as a young woman who, was refined and articulate and knew what she wanted and just had this aura about her that you couldn't believe she was 15, 16, 14 years old. Like she struck people as an adult. And you wonder how much of that was just her and a gift that she's had and that she built up that muscle of having to adult to make it in a entertainment business versus a defense mechanism. right? To protect some of that part of her childhood that is documented in theory in the show, but in actuality through some of this music that starts to come out under her own name.

No, I mean, she did a TikTok series a few years ago where it was right when the song used to be young came out. And so she went back through these little moments from her childhood. And she just sort of has an iPad and holds up some image. that represents some moment and then talks about it. And there's one that talks about the Hannah Montana years. And she just sort of goes through her schedule. And she said that she would get up at 5 o'clock in the morning and she would do press until like 6.30 or 7. And then she would go to work and she would be done with work around, you know, 6 p.m. or something.

5.30 a.m. I'm probably like 12 or 13. Friday, January 5.30 a.m. hair and makeup in my hotel. Like, that's a 15-year-old. Yeah. On the one hand, think of the discipline and maturity that it would take just to be able to do that.

Like, that is a special person. That is a person where when they meet an executive or a person on the street is probably not going to come across as a normal 15-year-old. And on some level is not a normal 15-year-old. But also, there's a 15-year-old. There's a 15-year-old kid inside that. That's right. That's right. And I think we probably would all say that that's not a life that a 15-year-old, even when there's all of this to be gained from it, should really or could really be trusted to embrace

without feeling like there are things that maybe they couldn't understand in terms of the consequences of that. Yeah. And so it's just a really busy period. Yeah. And so it's just a really busy period. Yeah. And so in this music that's on breakout, to me, what's most interesting about it isn't necessarily the songwriting, although I think there's some interesting songs. It's really for me in this moment in her life, does this album represent who she thought she was in the moment? Was she kind of rebelling against this image of Miley Stewart slash Hannah Montana? And as a kid, when you're still sort of figuring it out, you can play. you kind of play a role until you figure out exactly who you are, right? Right. So how much of this music actually still resonates with her personally, how much of it just scratches at some wounds, right? And triggers a bunch of feelings about a time in her life

that was probably equal parts wonderful and confusing and difficult. That to me is in the story, in the long narrative arc of Miley Cyrus, this album is less like a, to me, this is less like a Taylor Swift fearless, not just in terms of quality, but more of like a, almost a diary that I'm not sure who wrote it. And I wonder as she reflects back on it how it resonates with her today. Well, because musically, it is mostly done with the same people that she was working with on the Hannah Montana. Tana albums. Yeah. Most of these songs, I think, and we'll get into talking about some of the songs specifically,

most of these songs, I don't think, you know, think of the title breakout. I don't think they actually represent a huge musical departure from No. There are some moments, but most of this would have fit into that. And 15-year-old Miley was doing press, you know, saying that that's what they were. And so I wonder how that felt. I'd love to hear the threading of the needle between those two things, because I just think breakout starts and the lyric itself,

every week's the same, stuck in school so lame. I was like, wait a minute, that's a Miley Stewart, Hannah Montana line, not a Miley Cyrus. I'm breaking away from this character line. I have questions about that specific lyric and that specific song, actually, because that is one of, that song, breakout. And look, you don't put a song first on an album and have it be the second. the first thing that anyone's going to hear when you're trying to make a statement about

where someone is in their career without thinking about how it's going to sound. So there's some level of intention. But that is one of two songs on this album that Miley did not write. Breakout was originally a Katie Perry song. Yeah. That ended up getting given to her. Speaking of being shot into space. I can't.

Congratulations to Katie for living. That's, I mean that from the bottom of my heart. And that's all like, I can't think about this anymore. It is so dumb. I can't believe it. It's really dumb. It's the dumbest thing that's ever happened. And so many dumb things have happened.

Anyway. Ten minutes. I mean, come on. One Taylor Swift all too well. Ten minute version. Is that space or is it just an extended track? It is literally in the time it takes, in less than the time it takes to watch the all too well short film.

by the way. Yeah. Well, Katie's singing backup vocals on this song. Yeah, Katie's singing, what a wonderful world in space and Katie's singing backup on breakout. And I do... I'll do respect.

I like this better than the space vocals. Yeah, no, I think I can get behind that as well. I do have questions about, like, were there any lyrical tweaks to this song to sort of make it make sense for Miley? Because on some level, it's clearly a young person anthem in a way that is at least in a fuzzy outline kind of way fitting. Right.

But the line, getting up at 8 a.m.'s crazy is on this song. Yeah. We know that's not when she was getting up, right? Like, this isn't, this doesn't tell a story that Miley lived. Right. And it sort of borrows from pumping up the party. It's just a little bit. it is a strange choice to launch into this album

that was supposed to be a repletforming of Miley Cyrus and reintroduction of Miley Cyrus. I just found it, that opening lyric to me, I was like, wait a minute, this could very easily be on Hannah, Montana.

Who made these choices? The only, like rarely, I think, on an individual song level, on a musical level, or on an individual line sort of basis, is there anything on this album that is sort of spicy in a more meaningful way that would make it not fit on any of the Hannah Montana albums?

I do think if you take it as a whole, the ways in which it is different is, okay, we do have, we have breakup songs, allegedly, with another Disney person. Oh, yeah. We have a lot of songs that talk about being overworked.

Yep. We have a weird song and fly on the wall. That song could not have been on a Hannah Montana album. Yes, true. Could be more likely to be on a Gaga album than a Hannah Montana album. Well, and also is a song about frustrations with the paparazzi.

We have a song about global warming. We have like the first woke song. It's great. And we have, as we didn't know at the time, but no now will become treasured Miley Cannon. We have a song about her dead fish. Yeah, everything I'll never find again

at the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, I have a conspiracy theory for you about that song that I actually think we'll get into later. Okay. In all those ways, though, those are just if we're listing ways in which like all of those themes,

I think, are not Hannah Montana themes, right? Yeah, I also think, perfect, I'm going to work it. Yeah, I think, I also think goodbye. Like, there's a very adult, and I actually, it's my favorite lyric that remember when we kissed used to feel it on your lips. There's a real intimacy. It's a simple line. But I don't think that that, like, makeout vignette would have showed up on Atlanta.

Yeah, no, that makes sense. It's, that's funny that you bring up that line because I put a note down about it. I go back and forth a lot in this album because I do think you are really starting to hear Miley experiment as a writer and sort of try to develop a voice. Sometimes it's really fun. Sometimes there's this really sort of like punky energy and it sounds like it's coming from her. I do think as a 15 year old or even a 14 year old while she was working on some of this,

there is the teenager tendency to just say a lot of things that happened in a row. Right. And so from that song, it's stuff like that. It's, I can honestly say you've been on my mind

since I woke up today. I can honestly say, you've been on my mind since I woke up today. Blah, blah. In simple song, what I'd give to turn it off and make it stop.

Like, it's... I would give something to turn off simple song, but it, yeah, there isn't, again, this is not the most

lyrically rich text. of all time. And then you go, well, of course not, you asshole. It's being written by a 15-year-old. Probably when she was writing some of this. Like, what are you talking about? What did you expect? And then also, though, if we go through

some of those little content areas that do feel like they wouldn't be pure Hannah Montana Fair, she got her point across, right? Like, if you listen to this album, you know that there was a relationship and it ended. Recycling. You were worried about recycling, totally. Absolutely.

You want to pay attention to America because she just wants and Mother Earth. Yeah. And you know that she's working really hard and that sometimes she wants people to get off her case. Yeah. The attitude is here. The independent defiance. You know, Miley is going to always be Miley. She's just being Miley like we talked about last week.

She's just being Miley. And that is here. And I think that as the star-struck Disney Channel watching large-scale base that just was into this, hey, I'm a superstar secretly inside of me too. And if people could just see me for who I am, they'd know what a star am. I just think there's some subset of that that really had to have been attracted to this defiant spirit of Miley. and that somehow connected with the rebellion, right? And those to me, probably today, are the real smilers, right?

The people who have been with her on this journey, so much of which, as we're going to document over the course of the next 15 plus years from the time this album comes out, is about rebellion and zagging when others zig, and having the courage and maybe sometimes craziness in the best possible way to do stuff that in the near term looked ridiculous and was derided. But when you look back 10 years later is a cultural moment. Here I'm thinking of VMA appearances and dancing and, you know, we'll get into it all.

But that, the kernels of the person are in a few of these lines, aren't they? They definitely are. Let's start on some individual songs here, beginning with Biggest Hits. which means that I need you to tell me what you think about the song, seven things. Well, I think that she lists at least ten things. That's the first thing.

No, she does not. No, this allegation is completely unfounded. You guys just don't understand commas. This came up in some review somewhere, and I went back and checked, and I absolutely disagree. Mount your case.

Okay. I'm going to count them off. Your vein, that's one. Your vain. Your games. That's two. You're insecure. That's three.

You love me. That's four. You like her. That's five. That's all one. It's you love me, but you also like her. That is one idea. You love me.

You like her. So four. You make me laugh. You make me cry. Would be six. No. No. No.

Friends, they're jerks. That's seven. And then the seventh thing I hate the most that you do. I just, there are more than seven things here. No, here are the seven. Your vein one. Your games two. You're insecure three.

Okay. You love me, you like her, four. You can't, both of those go together. You made me laugh. You made me cry. I don't know which side to buy. Again, one single idea. That's a lot of ideas for to be five.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. because you made me laugh. Why is that a bad thing? You made me cry. Could be crying of happiness. You need, don't know which side to buy. You need the ping ponging back and forth to understand it as a complete idea.

And therefore, it is only the one, two, three, four. Fifth thing she hates. The friends are jerks when you act like them, just know it hurts. That's six. And then she says the seventh thing I hate the most that you do. You make me love you. I said, let me love you.

Profound. Deeply. I just think it's the eighth or ninth or tenth. And I don't care. It sounds like lots of people have lots of beef with Nick Jonas. That's fine with me. I don't have any beef with Nick Jonas. I don't have any beef with Nick Jonas.

I don't think Miley has beef with Nick Jonas. No, but there's a moment in the crowd in like 2022 in Chile where somebody's holding up a sign that says, fuck Nick Jonas. And she reads it. And then it's like, I didn't say it. I just am reading the same. signs. Fuck Nick Jonas.

I didn't say it. Just one of the other signs. I'm like, damn, girl. People have long memories. It really is something. 15 years. Wow. I think seven things slaps.

To me, this is the song that has lasted. It's certainly the biggest hit. It peaked at number nine in the Hot 100, which made it her highest charting song up to that point. She played it at that show And chilly.

Yeah. Like 15 years later. So she's still on the service. The guy with the sign knew that it was this moment. It also had a really big music video, which was the most watched music video on YouTube for about two years until Lady Gaga's bad romance music video came out. Solid melodies in this song. Totally. It was awesome.

But we lost it. It's not possible for me. Not to care. And I do, this is the one that I still hear somewhat regularly from this album. I've heard this in a spin class within the last two months. Wow. Apropos of nothing. I'm sure.

Really? Yeah. It's borderline cheesy, but it doesn't cross the line. It's still on the U.S. side. It hasn't waded into the Mexico of cheese. I'm not sure that's how the borders work anymore. Fair enough. You're not allowed to do it anymore, are you?

Oh, that's probably what the second verse of, wake up America's about. Stand up. I can't. I can't do this. It avoids the cheese, I think, because she just sells it. Yeah. Like this is, I'm going to say this so many times.

I just know it. She just absolutely commits. Yeah, she does. And even those little like shalalalas, it, somehow it works. Well, the thing I'll say is it didn't chart that high. I mean, it was like a, right? I mean, the album is number one,

but it didn't have like an absolute blistering blowout song. Seven Things is the closest. This would have been, this would have been the closest. And I do think it was a high watermark for her at that point, but it wasn't particularly, uh, long lasting. I do still hear the song.

I do think seven things within the era of time when there was still going to be Hannah Montana stuff coming out. I do think that it's relatively up there in terms of even streaming. I think the song has streamed reasonably well over time because people do remember it and go back to it. Where does it fall in the canon? I do think, you know what?

I do think seven things is canon. I do too. If she playing it at a festival. It's low, but it is canon. Yeah. I think people care enough about that song that it makes playlist. Now, I will say, I wish that the song that was canon is the driveway, because that is the best song on this album. Okay. Yeah. Tell me more about what you love about the driveway.

I just, it's an anthem. It's like, I guess this one was almost a Katie Perry song, and she rewrote the verses and kept the choruses. I just love the lyrical composition. I love the melodies. I love the way it lands. Yeah, it feels a little bit like a power country ballad a little bit. But I think that works. In all the best ways. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, no, I think in all the best ways, it has a little bit, this is not a, I'm not making a musical comparison here.

This is just vibes based. But it has a tiny little bit of the same energy as like state of grace. Like those sort of big power balladie rock-ish tracks on red where it just, it fills a space and it's a cool, just slightly new texture for her. I have to say, I don't remember this song at all and I loved it when I went back and listened to it. I'm glad that you're with me on this.

She has barely ever played it live, so it just doesn't seem, but it's the, whatever it is, the third song on the album, right? So I just, I love this song. It feels, in Ferris, it feels the most adult. Maybe it's the most removed from who she was in that moment. at the time that kept it from deeply connecting.

But man, I love this song. I think it connects. I mean, I guess connecting with audiences in real time such that I would remember it in the same way that I remember seven things, sure. I don't really know why that, that's as good of a theory as any. I do think she really sells it.

She sells everything on this album. Really great, yeah. And again, Miley Cyrus's voice at 50s, years old is just unmistakably hers, isn't it? There's not a whole lot of refinement that's going to come on the rest of this album. I mean, I would have cut these four walls probably, but she sings the shit out of the bridge on this album. Like, you can't listen to that song and not walk away and go, holy crap, who is this?

That was the one when I went back the first time. through. That was the song that made me Google how exactly how old she was at the time. And when the answer was 15 years old, I was flabbergasted. Yeah. What is going on on that bridge? Like that is not a 15 year old. That's the story that I told you about that everybody has. Like, how can this person possibly be 15 years old? It just carries herself as an adult. And she's singing as an adult. And to me, the driveway is the one that could have been on anything from, you know, yeah, an adult pop star to a Rascal Flats album. I did kind of think you were going to give me bottom of the ocean here just because of the dead pets. Do you want to, I mean, should we just go to my theory?

Give me your conspiracy theory. I want to know. Okay. For fuck's sake, this song is about the Titanic movie. never find again at the bottom of the old. And the fact that Jack and Rose were on that fucking door and she didn't make space for him. And at the end when she whispers, be happy. Like, he's drifting off. That's it. I mean, I do.

So it is surprising me that you are not compelled by what I believe is the state for the record origin of the idea of this song, which is as a tribute to her fish that had died lyric and melody. Look, you can use multiple ideas to create the metaphor, but I am absolutely convinced this is about the final scene in the Titanic. Do you like this song? I do. I like it too.

I love this song. if you were here. And it reminds me of that. And in a lot of ways, this is the next album appetizer, too, because I think we're going to hear a few things in her, a few of her albums in the 2010s that sound a little bit like this.

It's a little bit more ethereal. There's a little bit more experimental sound. You've got some synths. I'm into it. It's like new agey Malibu Miley. It's cool. Kind of comes through for the first time. I didn't choose it as my next album appetizer

for this one, but it definitely has kernels of a sound that we will hear from her again that we do get for the first time on this album. I got to imagine that this one came from Miley. Look, if you were trying to tempt me into connecting it with Pablo the Blowfish. I'm here for it because it could be the precursor.

She does love to write about her, her dead pets. So this is, this is ostensibly part of the Miley Cyrus and her dead pets collection, if you're right. But I'm, I think it's about the Titanic. Be happy. Happy. It's great stuff. The spoken word intro I got a little worried about, but then as I got into the song, I was happy with it. I just love it. I just think it's fabulous. And I do really think that it feels like it came from her. the other song that I had the same reaction to,

or at least a similar reaction to as the driveway, which is, I just don't really remember listening to this in real time, but I do enjoy it is full circle. Okay. There's some learn to fly by the foo fighters in this song. Well, and there's also

the Heart Like a wheel Linda Ronstad reference, which feels, that feels very mildy to me. And that's not a musical note, but that feels like something that'll come back around. This is another one. More Nick Jonas. That I must say is allegedly about Dear Nicholas.

I think the drums are great on this song. Some guys just wailing on it. But her singing, again, like she's up belting for so much of it. And then she goes, she's in the lower register. You can hear the lower register developing in real time. And this happens with Taylor, too. But not even close to the same way. Not even close to the same way because Miley always had so much more of it.

But she is getting older before our eyes and ears. Sure. And I do think that there's little sort of growls when she's down towards the bottom of register on this song that just feel like something that you wouldn't have gotten a year or two prior to this. So I really liked this song.

It was not an instant classic for me in its day, so I don't have any sort of nostalgia for it. But this was one where I was going through going like, huh, this, this, there was some solid stuff here. Yeah. I mean, she put out this book Miles to Go.

First of all, great title. And it was this like co-written autobiographical book that had, you know, a lot about her and then some Bible verses. But she talks about this Nick relationship. And I'm, without like, brying too much, I'm really interested to understand. They both have talked about this relationship as being that, like, seminal moment formation of understanding what love is about, right? because you're right at that age

if you weren't a big star and all of the other unbelievable like social pressures that would you know have you sort of mature way faster than you're supposed to like you're right at that age sometimes where you where you have that that one relationship that you always think back on

where you sort of feel like what it what it is like to be connected emotionally to another person. So I'm interested to know if that was if in fact it was that for both of them and how they how they, whether they look back on it fondly. I'm sure at some point you let go of the...

First of all, what do 14 and 15-year-old teenage stars argue about? Like, what's the yelling that happens on a phone? What is there to actually bicker about? Well, let's consult the text. He made her laugh. Then he made her cry, and she's trying to figure out which side to buy. Friends are jerks.

His friends are jerks. Friends or brothers. I don't know. So there you go. Well, it's nice that it sort of weaves itself through the rest of this album. And I mean, I assume goodbye is that as well. I wouldn't really call this a breakup album necessarily.

It just is like the expression of teeny pre-teeny feelings, right? Through the including... Yeah, I mean, you're making up, you're breaking up, you're making out. Yeah. They're teenagers. Yeah. They're teenagers. with big feelings and and that is fruitful.

Skinny not jacked Nick Jonas at 1415. Seems it's a different looking kid. Hair wasn't as good. It's like full afro. Bodyed not where it is today. Anything else do you want to say? Anything else you want to tear down this 15 year old boy for? No, no.

I just like I like was he the cute one and the Jonas brothers? I do feel like people, yeah, I actually do. think he was. Always? Yeah. I think Nick was most people's favorite people knew he was going to be the the heartthrob. There's a couple good Nick Jonas songs eventually. Because he was kind of the like the pretty boy. You know, he was the cute one. Yeah. I'm down with jealous. I'm down with levels. Nick Jonas is all right, man. Thanks for clarifying your stance. Every single album Jonas Brothers, you heard in your first. That's it. That's all there is. Where did you go for a most important collaborator?

Nick Jonas, you're going to be shocked. I think that anybody who can trigger a set of feelings that teach of 15-year-old or 14-year-old to start putting them into words and into inspiration for the creative process, I say thank you. Maybe it's rock mafia, right? Because they seem to get their arms around. how to help her create a cohesive collection of songs. I don't know, is it Cindy Lopper who inspired her to put girls just want to have fun on this album and maybe in the process turned Miley sneakily into one of our best cover artists? So all good choices.

How about Annie Liebowitz? Talk to me. We began this conversation diving into. into some questions and some push-pull between the idea of this as a true breakout, Miley establishing who she is as an individual outside of Hannah Montana record, and how much that feels like a premise that isn't fully met by some of the songs, most of which could have been part of a Hannah Montana album, save for some exceptions,

and certainly if you consider them as a collective, there are some themes and some ideas that would have been a little bit incongruent. But for the most part, doesn't sound like a huge departure. At the same time, most of the coverage of this album, you're getting headlines from Billboard,

like, Miley Cyrus grows up on breakout. And that is a pretty good approximation of the top-line, description of what this meant within the context of her career and how this album was received. And I do think one essential piece that sort of ties those two sides together is that in 2008, she does this Vanity Fair cover article. Okay. And she's photographed by Annie Leibovitz.

and she is trying to, we know now, trying to have an image that fits with growing up and with leaving Hannah behind. And so when they're deciding what to do, you know, her makeup artist uses red lipstick on her for the first time because they decided something that Hannah Montana never would have done. Miley's excited about it. Her whole family is there. and... We are way beyond the edge of the forest of Nathan's ability to... You're going to remember this. You're going to remember this when I get to the end result.

Oh, the moment, I'm sure. It's the sort of subtle makeup choices that I... Sure. Sure. I'm leaving in your camp. But I say this to make clear that as far as I can tell, she had a fair amount of agency within that photo shoot and was making choices and felt comfortable.

The photo that they end up using, there's one where she is sort of holding this big blanket and she's got a bare shoulder and a bear back. And to her, it looked very natural and artistic. But it was not typical Disney fair. And again, for Miley, that was a good thing and that was very intentional. But it goes on the cover of Vanity Fair.

And there is this huge, about the fact that it doesn't look like a photo of someone posing naked but you can't, you know, she's holding this blanket over most of her and what you can see other than the blanket is bare. So it becomes this, Miley Cyrus is posing nude on the cover of,

you know, it's suggestive. The New York Post runs a front page article with the headline, Miley's shame. Here's wholesome Hannah Montana as you never expected to see her. And it just becomes this whole blow-up thing that Disney made her apologize for,

made her say that she was manipulated into taking photos that she didn't think would look the way that they ended up looking. And, you know, with that stuff, they sort, you know, they effectively put it to bed. Kat, no wonder she apologizes to fucking no one now. Well, so staying in the, in real time,

I think one reason I bring this up is that I think that event has a huge amount to do with the narrativeization around this album of like this is, you know, she's growing up before our eyes. Like, this is what's happening here. And I wonder just because musically it's not terribly different from Hannah if that would have been as effective. And I think, DeMiley, that was a good thing. that it was taken as this is a step away from the Hannah Montana of it all. I think that article dramatic as, you know, drama as it created, ended up doing that. Now, we now know in the present tense, she did not feel sorry. She was perfectly happy with how she was portrayed, felt comfortable in the shoot,

was intending to not look like Hannah Montana. and we know this because she's talked about it in many instances, but a seminary event was that on the 10-year anniversary, she tweeted, I'm not sorry, fuck you. And so I agree with you. This does have something to do with the fact that I'm sure Miley apologizes for things

in her own life, as we all do and should, but I don't think that she does it all willy-nilly. Yeah, and that, again, to me, is the key theme of this album, which is how much of it was her, how much of it was the Disney corporate machine, you know, is there a little like hostage messages being, you know, subtle cues waving at the outside world asking for help, right? That she's just trying to put a couple pucks past the goalie that no one notices on the Disney machine and that the outside world notices.

it's a very, uh, look, the dynamics of an already precocious, naturally mature, uh, human being who was thrust into, you know, a position that probably

in her time, maybe 10 to 20 other people ever had been put into that level of fame at that age and it's probably fewer than that. And right at the time when the internet is starting to go, and, you know, social media and all of it, they're just, that journey is the story of Miley Cyrus in some ways. You know, she was the first to go through that fire. What would we cut?

Well, I don't like the girls just want to have fun cover. I don't like the string arrangement. I like that Cindy Lauper told her something at the Grammys to not do something, to just sort of don't be scared of anything, just go do it. But I feel like the strings are a little awkward. I don't totally understand it. I wish you'd done time after time. That's the Cindy Lopper song, Miley Cyrus could destroy.

I like the Cindy Lopper story. I also think that it is one of those pucks past the goalie of, what are we saying here? Girls just want to have fun. Myly Cyrus would maybe like for you. old men in suits and offices to get off her back a little bit. And so it's cool from that perspective.

I agree with you there. I think here's what I think. I also appreciate it going into the lineage of Miley covers. Yeah. I think it's a nice launch of that. It just isn't the one that I would go back to. I agree. And I agree that it's about those strings.

I think those, I think the arrangement, I have to imagine, especially it's this you know, one of the first times you're really doing this. She's thinking, well, I've got to make my cover different. I've got to change it. And I think over time, the way that it is changed and morphed and often often often these covers that she does are so captivating is because it's a chance to hear

Miley Cyrus sing a classic song, which is in and of itself really, really, really cool. I feel like she is masking herself on it. this in an attempt to have these intense string hits be a thing where you sort of can't argue that it's the same as the original. In reality, I mean, there's a world in which Miley, like, Miley's like the highest possible execution of a lounge singer in some ways. It's like the best possible outcome of that that you could ever come up with. And that's why I think she's such a great cover artist.

but I don't know that I think there was some covering up of that that went on here. So I agree with you. The highest possible execution of a lounge singer. Don't you feel like that sometimes where it's like

she's someone who you would just step into a smoky bar or something and there's someone singing cover songs who's just completely captivating. I mean, she shows up at the Chateau Mar-Mau and does this all the time. So you're not wrong with that. But I think her voice is more unique than that in that.

No, no, I do too. I totally do too. I just think that that's, part of the magic of Miley singing covers. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that gets masked by some of the instrumental choices on this one. I think it's really that the cellists on this thing must have been the most soulless human beings ever.

Like, it's the stiffest fucking shit. Whoever scored this, I'm sorry for you. The simple song doesn't hit for me much. It's all up in my face need to push it away. Somebody push it away. But I think there's good moments for her voice here, and it is very directly a communication of that anxiety that comes with being a child. Yeah, leave me alone.

I think it needs to be here as a communication point, but the song from me left me a little high and dry. Do I need to argue for the continued inclusion of Wake Up America, the Miley Cyrus Global Warming song? No, I mean, some might say cut it, but for me, this has to be here. It has to be here. It's so good. Well. Well, you know what I mean.

It's funny that it's here. It's like Pablo the Blowfish. Okay, I just want you to understand that Katie Perry would make this song today. You're right. Katie Perry tried to make this song yesterday when she shot into space. but it didn't work as well as this. This is the original. It's a woman's world.

No, but you know what? You know what I'll say about this song? Is, again, way ahead of her time, understanding intuitively that she has a platform and that she's going to use it. And could you ever make the argument that her heart is not in the right place? Like, not for a second. It's really admirable that 50-year-old, Miley Cyrus was like, I want to do this.

And she says stuff like, I know that you don't want to hear it from someone so young. Especially for young. She's like at least self-aware enough to be like, I get that I'm not trying to be preachy here, but hey, there's something happening. Like, again, just so wise and it's important. And it, I think, speaks to the ways in which she's going to speak out fearlessly on the things that she believes in, whether you like it or not, she knows she has a platform. And she's going to use it for a decade plus to come. You go, Miley. If anybody listening to this hasn't heard this song, go back. back and listen to it because it is the trip. It's completely ridiculous in its own way. It's totally ridiculous, but it's like, I don't really know what's going on, but it's

fucking scary, I think, and we should probably do something. So wake up. It's like, yeah, great. That's exactly what I would want a 15-year-old to think. It is really funny because she's like, I don't really understand global warming, but it sounds bad, which not wrong. Right. And my now 16-year-old, maybe four or five years ago walked in and was like, I'm scared

of global warming. And I was like, what does that mean? mean to you and he didn't really know, but he knew he was supposed to be like afraid, like, is the earth going to end? Am I going to die? Is basically what he was asking me, right? Am I going to die sooner than I'm supposed to? It's already hard enough as a 15 or 12 year old or 10 year old to be like, oh my God, I have mortality and it feels like that's closer than it's going to be. But anyway, this song, it's, it's, it matters. It's ridiculous. But it matters. No, it does matter. I'm glad. I was prepared to,

amount to defense, but I never should have doubted you. No, no, this is not a, this is not an album that's supposed to be about songs that you're going to keep and that you're going to revisit often and over again, songs that have deep meaning, although I will say once again, meet Miley Cyrus is punk as fuck. And that album kicks ass. This one is more about the message and the purpose of it, which is, as it's titled, for Miley Cyrus to break out. what do you have as peak Miley? Peak Miley for me was the fuck Nick Jonas moment.

Like 15 years later, she's still mad about this shit. Or at least cheeky enough to call out the sign in a crowd. I love it. I did bottom of the ocean for the Pablo the Blowfish precursor of it all. Well, that's the next album appetizer also. Okay, so for me it's not. For me, I totally get what you're saying with that. And I think that makes sense, particularly if you skip an album or two.

Okay. For me, I did think, I did go with Fly on the Wall. Okay. Because it does, that feels like the closest corollary to can't be tamed to me. You have this sort of electro dance pop aesthetic that was not really part of the core Hannah Montana stuff. It's not most of this album that song sticks out within this track list. But you could put Fly on the. wall next to can't be tamed and not be like what's going on here. These songs don't go together.

Yeah. It's just, it's aggressive. It's got some like B-52's rock lobster in it. Yeah. Do you think it's about the paparazzi? Do you think it's, I mean, there's lots of lyrics about boyfriends and flirting here. This is another one where I wonder if she kind of blended some metaphors. And it's sort of about paparazzi, but also maybe about maybe she just didn't want to own up to the fact that she was flirting with dudes who weren't Nick Jonas. I mean, but I mean, she played this song in 2022 also. Like, this is one of the two from this album that have survived. It's, this is the song that if somebody else were singing it, it would totally flop.

And because it's a Miley Cyrus song, it's kind of cool. Like, I, I dig it. I think the aggression of it is cool. I think it shocks me. It's maybe a little too strong, but it spooks me every time I hear it, like every time in the last couple of days that I've gone back and listened to it,

the way they process her voice, it always sounds weirder than I expect it to. Yeah, it's weird. She sounds more like, you know, the MC of a haunted house than I think she's going to every single time. And so I kind of dig it. I'm convinced she heard it and was like,

yeah. Like I think she loved this. I love it. Yeah, she likes the shock value, the weird shit, you know? It's, it's... And it is different. I believe this was her production contribution. This is more of a breakout than most of the album, right?

This sounds different. Pardon the pun. Oh, pun intended. I enjoy the song. I'm not sure that it's one where I'm like, yeah, but I get it. Like, it is among the more memorable. that come off this album sonically, for sure. Yeah, I mean, this fly on the wall to me has,

has some nostalgia to it. Like, I very much remember this song. I remember listening to this song. More than Wake Up America? Yes, more than Wake Up America. No, I didn't remember Make Up Auerica. Wake Up Auerica. Wake up America.

It's, yeah, I think if she played... Guy, keep it in. The most rock and roll things she could do is play Wake Up America on whatever. her next live performances. I think we're in a slightly too tenuous place as a nation to get the bit, but in a simpler time, I would endorse it. High comedy. Do you have a best lyric? Yeah, it's what I said. I really thought the remember when we kissed. Oh, that's right. I still feel it on my lips. The time that you dance with me with no music playing from goodbye,

which that's a, I don't know, that's just a little lovely image. of two people in a room with no music just sort of holding each other. That, to me, was the most adult lyric on this album. Like that, the Wake Up America is sort of very child perspective. The opening of breakout, very child perspective. Even the seven things I hate about you, and whether it's seven or nine or ten,

like even that whole thing is childlike. This song had a maturity to it that to me made it a little bit more, interesting and believable. I got that little vignette in my head as soon as she sang it. Would you like? Right there with you. I totally agree. But it's no. When you mean it, I'll believe it. If you text it, I'll delete it. When you mean it, I'll believe it. If you text it, I'll delete it. Yeah. Which is neither adult nor it's tween. Like it's teenager. It's teen, it's teen speak.

So it really hits in that way. There's an homage to ringtones in goodbye, too. That is... And you know what? There aren't enough homages to ringtones in music history. No, but like it's funny that that's here because ringtones were supposed to like save the music business

because everybody, you know, in this moment in time she puts this album out, everybody's downloading it, right? If she put this album out five years earlier. Or you're texting on your flip, you're like texting the number to get the ringtone. And then you could get a ring back tone. And they'd charge like $2.99, 3, 499. So everybody was like, well, okay, so everybody's stealing

albums, but they're going to pay for ringtones. They're going to pay $7 for a ringtone. No, trust me. They're going to pay, right? And then all of a sudden it was like, uh, that's dumb as fucking hell. And the iPhone is out now. And like, iTunes is becoming a thing. And okay, but I definitely got in trouble at age 12 or 13 for like texting the number and adding $4 to a family's cell phone bill. Yeah, because I wanted a ringtone. Some of us were suckers, Nathan. No, there was a business case for a short period of time, but if you had any ability to look beyond your own nose, you could have seen where this was going. There was now a supercomputer in your pocket that was holding all of your musical files on it alongside your telephone. And perhaps it was

possible to connect one of those musical files to the sound that the telephone made, in which case, it was going to be absurd to pay additional money for that. And that's why I wake up to I should have kissed you by one direction every morning. All I'm telling you is that I was definitely grounded for a ringtone related infraction in the year 2008. Nora, I have a sense that you were slightly less of a rebel than Miley Cyrus. That's probably true. What'd you give this thing? I gave it a B. Oh, you're generous today. You didn't give it a C. It's not a C.

It's not a C. I gave it a B minus only because I think Meet Miley Cyrus is a better out. Yeah, I do too. And I think if these things were flipped, it would have made more sense to me. I understand why they can't put the Wake Up America song on the back half of Hannah Montana 2. So I get it that lyrically this is more of a breakout. But I actually think Meet Miley Cyrus, if that had gone out on its own, it would have said to the world, this is a little rock star right here.

But everything I reads, global warming going green, I don't know what all this means, but it seems to be saying, wake up America. We're all in this together. Let me put it this way. Let's take care of it. With as much and as hard as Miley Cyrus herself was actually working in this moment in time, I think if she got a B minus on anything that she was doing school-wise, that is the equivalent of an A-plus. You know that you want to.

You know that you got to wake up America. I love it. It's incredible. Yeah. Actually, the music on this album was stronger. than I was expecting it to be when I went back to listen to it. Because when I went back to listen to it, what I knew was that I've got a real place in my heart for seven things. I've got a real place in my heart for a fly on the wall. And I honestly didn't remember that much of what else

was on breakout. And that is really in contrast with, of course, in the 900 Hannah Montana albums that exist, there are things that I didn't remember. But I had very clear nostalgic memory for a lot of those songs. And so I went back thinking, well, there's less of that here. And then there were songs like the driveway, like... Driveway is the shit.

Full circle where I was going, wow, like, I would listen to this now. This is really... This is good. And so I think if I'm being a little generous, it's coming from that place. I do also think that this album, particularly given the context of her...

being in the news of the vanity fair of it all. Like, I think it served its purpose. I mean, we're going to talk about can't be tamed next. And I think there's probably an argument that some of that music was a little bit of unfinished business from maybe what would have been the desire with this for it to really be a departure from Hannah Montana. But I do think that despite the music being relatively similar, some of the content, some of those shots she got past the goalie.

I'm really liking that metaphor, so good job by you there. And what was going on with her publicly? Like, I do think it succeeded in its intended goal. For sure. I agree. I'm glad this exists. I think it's more of a teaching moment

than a musical keepsake. But the fact that two songs from her ostensible breakout debut album are being played 15 years later, I didn't hear any songs from debut in the Ares Tour. Well, I have my own thoughts about that. But yes, point very much stands. All right. We will be on to Can't Be Tamed next.

I'm looking forward to that as well. Nathan, lovely as always. All right, this has been every single album. As always, I'm Norprinci Adi. He's Nathan Hubbard. Thank you to Kai McMullen for producing this episode. And to you for listening. We'll talk to you next week.

Thank you.