Every Single Album - Can "Cruel Summer" Still Be the Song of the Summer? | Every Single Album: Taylor Swift

Episode Date: June 21, 2023

Nora and Nathan talk about the news that "Cruel Summer," from Taylor Swift's 2019 album, 'Lover,' was released this week as a single. They talk about whether the move could bump the song to the top of the charts (1:00) and why she might have decided to make "ME!" the first single off of 'Lover' instead (18:20). Hosts: Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, and welcome to every single album. I'm Nora Prince-Iotti, and I am here for week three of the summer of Taylor with Nathan Hubbard. Nathan, how are you doing? Great. We're finally going to get Cruel Summer as a single a decade later. All right. That's what we're going to talk about this week because four years later, four years after the release of Lover, there is a very pressing question upon us. And that question is, can Cruel Summer finally get what it deserves and be the song of

summer 2023. So this weekend, Taylor was in Pittsburgh for the Erez tour. In the bird. And on Friday, the first of the Pittsburgh shows, she gets up there. And she starts explaining to the crowd that there's this crazy thing happening. And she says she's never experienced anything like it. But Cruel Summer was a song that she absolutely loved for. from Lover and it was about to be a single when the pandemic hit.

And it stopped it from being a single. But this summer, as it's been a fixture of the Eros Tour, and as it's always been a fan favorite, it's been streamed so much by the fans that her label has decided to make it the fifth single off of Lover four years after it's been released. And they're going to really try to put some juice into this thing. as we go into the summer months. It initially in 2019,

Cruel Summer got to number 29. And to let our listeners in on a little secret, it's June 19th as we're recording this. It's going to be released tomorrow as a radio single. So we'll see how it goes. But it is at a minimum, exceptionally satisfying to us personally, to see Taylor give Cruel Summer the treatment that it deserves

and to see Cruel Summer get the treatment that it deserves. Nathan, do you feel vindicated as a longtime Cruel Summer enthusiast, Stan, supporter? No, I feel angry. Oh, God. And I'll tell you why I feel angry, Nora. It's manufactured. I'll tell you why.

Because these last few series of moves have been super fun. you know, Biscuits thrown to the fan base. More Lana. I've never seen. Someone lived from within. Right? There's a lot of, I'm listening to the internet

and coming back and making, I appreciate that this is happening, but you cannot fool me. There is a song that was released as a single. And it is called, Nora, I'll let you do it. I don't know what you're talking about. Me-hee-hee.

How do you not know what I'm talking about? It was released on April 26th, 2019, which if you'd made the right decision at the time, it would have been Cruel Summer, and it would have been the song of the summer in 2019, and that would have made it the song of the entire pandemic because it would have just run for, it'd still be on the charts.

Literally, who hurt you? And by the way, except I know the answer. It is still on the charts, because right now, Cruel Summer itself is sitting on the Billboard Hot. 100 at number 47. So it's not going to take that much for it to goose and get up. It's just kind of a weird thing to do. And I'm very interested to see what radio does, Nora, because if she's able to release a song that came out four years ago to radio and make it go,

like, what is radio? Like, what are they? What are they? Are they just like super pawns? Like, do they work for her? Normally, I feel bad for you when you get aggregated, but I really hope some blogger is like, Nathan Hubbard. in 2020. What's radio? I mean, what is radio? I mean,

what is radio anyway? Like, radio can be, I mean, seriously, like, the success of this project, right? And we can talk about how much of this project

is more of a, you know, label-backed business orchestrated idea and how much of this is fan service or a grassroots enterprise. We can talk about that in a second.

However, the success of this project, whoever is the true motor of it, it's going to depend on how successful it is on radio plus streaming. And that is the way that it is already for other songs. And that is how, like, Fleetwood Mac's dreams can have a massive chart surge because of a TikTok trend. That's how, like, running up that hill can be on stranger things and all of a sudden be a massive song. I don't know that cruel summer.

becoming a chart topper four years after the album is really the first thing that should be making us sit here and go, what's radio? Well, but like, what's the point? I mean, really, if you're radio, it sort of is,

it's cute. Listen, every mayor in America. We're not radio. No one's radio. What's radio? But we're us. We're the people who for years have been like,

why wasn't Krall Summer is single? Why do we need some stupid record label to make it this. If we wanted to hear it this badly, why didn't we pick up the phone and call the radio station back in the day and be like, play the shit, homie? And so it just, there's a part of this that's like, first of all, you can't fool me. Somebody made the decision to go with me instead of cruel summer in time for summer. Second of all, it is. Continue. Second of all, I know that the summer solstice is just around the corner, but fuck that. It is. summer. And if we were really going to make this the song in the summer,

you know, we should have put this out. Nathan Hubbard, colon, fuck the summer solstead. We should have put this out before the gosh darn do a leap of Barbie song that I think you are going to tell me is already the song of the summer. But we'll see. The doleap of Barbie song slaps. Watch me. Yeah. Cruel summer. You know what? Cruel summer slaps a little harder. Well, it's certainly going to be one of those songs from the idol. I'll tell you that right now. But look, my thing about it is, as long as we treat this as fun. And just like, you know, people have overwhelmed multiple call centers and websites in service

of this woman and like physical retail locations and stadiums and highways and everything, I guess do the same with radio here. if really, you know, four years later, there's sort of a wrong being righted and we push cruel summer. I mean, the most interesting thing is like, is this really a song that's going to reach people who haven't heard it before? Or is this all just kind of a joke? When I say, what is radio?

What I mean is like, are there, is there curation? Is there any, do they have any sort of independence on their own? Because if they did, they wouldn't be like, okay, a single artist gets to tell me that I have to play this song right now. of course Taylor Swift is the music industry if you'll pardon the meme. Damn straight. And so maybe maybe she does but it's going to be

a very interesting case study in fealty, right, to the superstar of the moment by the radio industry. Do they really want that? Because be clear, radio is going away. Like there are very, very few genres where radio matters at all anymore. Now it's about

playlisting on Spotify, playlisting on Apple, et cetera, et cetera, right? Nobody cares about radio. And correct me if I'm wrong. Like the success or failure. And I don't know that this is necessarily going to be a thing that's defined by, you know, what exactly are the numbers. Although we know that that Taylor cares quite a bit about that stuff. Oh, yes.

I do see this is mostly about like this is a thing that the fans care about. And that's happening. But the numeric, you know, here is my trophy. Here is my prize. Here is the thing that I accomplished type success of this. is going to come down more so to if this goose is how much people stream it. And I mean, that's what she was saying in the show, right? It's like to all of you who have streamed Cruel Summer 500 million times and I was watching

a TikTok and you can hear the person who's taking the video in the background go, me, I did that. And it's very funny. But you guys have like streamed Cruel Summer so much right now in 2023? Yes, I have. Like those are the people that you. she's speaking. But isn't that all of this?

It's not like this is some hidden jam. This is the song that she basically opens the tour with because everybody knows it's the shit. And it's probably a top three song in the entire catalog as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. Yeah. And that's and the heiress tour this summer, the heirs tour, a tour that is taking place in the summer of 2023 is giving it a platform in that way. And I take your broader point, which is that Cruel Summer is a massively well-known song, a song that is just an undeniable smash that people know and love and care about already. But also, it is still a four-year-old song.

Right. You can spend. I certainly have. I'm sure I've gone a month. Maybe. I'm sure I've got a couple weeks at some point in the last four years without hearing Cruel Summer. And I'm a weirdo. So I'm sure that there are a lot of people who know and love Cruel Summer.

who because either all of the videos they're seeing of the Ares Tour or they went to the Ares Tour or this now is happening, they're going to go, oh, yeah, I love Cruel Summer. I've heard Cruel Summer. But I'm going to do the thing that I do where I put Cruel Summer on a playlist with the Do A Leap of Barbie song and I just listened to that for six hours straight.

Like, that stuff will happen more because of this. Do a Leaplepa with the Barbie. Anti-Hero made it to one. Karma featuring Ice Spice made it to two. Where does Cruel Summer make it to if it gets this kind of support? I don't, like, you are the better person of the two of us to actually answer this question.

Because I don't feel like I quite have my arms wrapped around what the relevant factors there are. I think it will get to number one. Like, I just think that this song is, is undeniable. And I also think that when Taylor Swift tells people to do things, they do them.

So, if this becomes... But it's not like she didn't tell them to play karma featuring Ice Spice, and it only got to number two. But Karma feature... First of all, karma featuring Ice Spice, I do think you have like a ballot splitting.

Facts. Facts. Facts. I think you split tickets there a little bit because even when Taylor says stream Karma Remix featuring Ice Spice, I think half of the people who listen to that are going to stream Karma remix featuring Ice Spice. And then half of the people who listen to that are going to stream original karma.

Facts. A separate but related conversation is like, it is interesting that the Midnights, like, I think Anti-Hero ate a lot of streams. I think Anti-Hero sucked up a lot of, like, for one of the first. first times in her career, Taylor chose the exact right single. And she knew exactly what the song to represent this album was. It's the anti-cruel summer. And... Or the anti-me.

It sucked up a lot of the oxygen in the room. I have been surprised by the mass reception of midnights and by the streaming numbers and by the numbers in general really, really indicating. that like anti-hero became a rocket ship and I think maybe it took a little bit away

from other things or like there just wasn't that song like again to me it should be karma and I do think the fact that there are two different versions that people can listen to impacts it a little bit

I think it should be bejuled but something something happened with Midnights where the song, the single, absolutely hit. And not a lot of other secondary songs like broke through in quite the same way, even though the album itself is massive, massive, massive, massive, and she is more massive, massive, massive, popular, popular, massive, massive than ever.

So maybe Cool Summer will fall victim to the same dynamic of... Do you think you're using different adjectives there? Those are the same words. I'm doing it for emphasis. Or this is like when I was in middle school and I would have a French paper due and it would have a certain word count And I would just say that something was like 13, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 13.

It's that much. What I'm saying is that we shall see, I suppose, if cruel summer ends up being more like a karma or if maybe we learn that there's, in some ways, some unfulfilled demand for another song to really pop. But just for some reason,

it didn't happen in quite the same way. to other songs off of Midnights. Antihara has streamed about 50% more than Cruel Summer has in obviously a much, much shorter period of time, which just tells you to your point what a rocket trip it's on. But I mean, Cruel Summer has streamed

about as much as style, which is pretty interesting. Where does that go in the ultimate pantheon of, because style must have streamed a ton. Yeah, three quarters of a billion. There's also, there's more people on streaming services. there were more people on streaming services

when Lever came out than there were when 1989 came out. That's right. And even though in theory the numbers should even out more and more and more the longer of the tail, I think that's still matters. But blank space has twice the streams that

Cruel Summer does. And I'll write your name. So it's still an interesting measure of comparison. But if we believe if we believe in this which I definitely do, and I feel that if it had been in the spot that me was in, it would have gone all the way.

I feel comfortable. You know, I would put my money on Taylor says jump. We say how high. Radio industry jumps. And the fact that she's telling us to jump for cruel summer is a pretty easy leap to make. But what does it mean for us to jump for cruel summer anyway? Isn't she saying radio stations, you better play this shit? And she's also saying...

Call your radio station and request it. But also go listen to it. That was what she... She could have spoken like that, right? When she was on stage in Pittsburgh. Instead, what she said was, you know, you've all been streaming it so much. Thank you to those of you who have been streaming it so much.

So I think that is the... That's the assignment when it really comes down to it. Okay. It's just the radio station's not. don't want us to stream it. They want us to listen to it on the radio so that they make money from the ads. Yes.

One would presume the hope is that there's a rising tide lifts all boats thing. Also, a cynic would maybe say that, you know, if it gets streamed way more, she gets paid more. Yeah. I think she's going to give a little bit of a finer, more acute set of instructions this Friday in Minneapolis.

That would make a lot of sense. That would make quite a bit of sense. My question to you, since you were the one to bring up me, was do you like, I don't want to say belief, because it's not that serious. This is a fun, silly thing.

But when you hear her give that speech in Pittsburgh about, you know, that song was my pride and joy on that album. You talk before the album comes out about what should be singles. I was finally going to have my favorite song. Do you totally buy it? Do you hear...

I'm trying to tell you guys that me wasn't my idea and I didn't do it. That's what I hear. I hear all 50 tour buses beat, beat, backing up over somebody else who made the decision. Right. Over who, though, is the thing? The label, in quotes. Panic at the disco guy? Over Brandon Yuri. Yeah.

Well, for sure, he's got 18-wheel tire tracks over him. Yeah, he's never to be seen or heard from again. Thumb, thump, thump. That's Brandon Uri under the tour bus all day. Yeah, I think she's trying to distance herself from that. Is Benjamin Button the kitten in timeout? I don't know. Benjamin.

Blank twice if you need help. I don't know. But I do know that she knows that this is a decision that goes down as being deeply less popular. And I don't think she's... I mean, the most interesting what if is if she's led with Cruel Summer, does that album just absolutely explode?

And of course, Lover became a bigger hit or single than I think, certainly I expected. And it gave the album a ton of legs, but does it just go, does that whole album just totally explode if she releases that song on April 26th, 2019,

instead of me he he. Me he. It would have saved me a lot of conversations of, let's just wait till the album comes out. It's not that bad. It's kind of fun. I don't know. Yeah.

It would have saved us all a lot of trouble. Oh, goodness gracious. I wonder if she will ever go back to the chaotic first single ways. I hope not. not after this. You just said it. I mean, she just unlocked it. When you put out the best song as the single,

guess what happens? Everybody listens to it. And everybody thinks that the rest of the album is really good. And they stack up the entire Billboard 100 in the top 10 with songs. Like, that's what happens. Can I use this conversation to exercise a take that I forgot to purge during the take purge? By all means. I love Cool Summer so much.

I loved hearing it live. I don't like the thing she does where she stops before the bridge. All right, Jersey. We can arrive. Yeah. I mean, don't fuck with perfection.

I agree. Yeah. Cruel summer. Like, cruel summer is not a long. It's what? It's like two and a half minutes long or whatever. And it is like,

I mean, talk about getting hit by a bus, but in a great way. Like a glitter sparkle bus of happiness for two and a half minutes. That's what happens when you listen to cruel summer. But then in the live version,

you have to take, this break to remind people that the bridge is coming up. I know where the bridge is. I know where the bridge is. Yeah. Needed to get that one off of the chest. That's a good take. I mean, and she's using the explosion machines and stuff. So like, let's keep the energy rolling. But these are nitpicks. I mean, I think, you know, there's probably, there are probably a bunch of people who, who, that genuinely does allow them to like get ready to scream. You ready? You ready? And I'm glad that they're ready to scream, because we should all be ready to bring. She's like warming up the gong.

You have to like really hit it a little bit before you whack it. She's warming up the gong. She's totally doing that. Oh, well, that's what she's doing now. That's what she's doing now telling us to go, you know, hop, skip and jump and stream and call and whatever we're supposed to do. That maybe we'll hear more about. Can I ask you something about the live show? Always.

especially just... What if I said no? What if I was just like, no, don't talk to me? Cool, cool, you're driving. Let's move on. This has been every single... Okay, just kidding. Yeah.

What's your question? It's like, it's like the 1975. It's like Maddie starting with his stupid-ass controversial thing that then the band kicks into it's not living. Anyway, um... It's a good bit. I haven't said a lot of nice things about Maddie Healy lately. I'll just, I'll say this one.

It's a good bit. It's a good bit. Um, Aaron Destiner keeps sure. showing up in all kinds of places on this tour. And he's also on tour with the National. So this past weekend he showed up to play seven, which was super cool. But like, what's the calculation there? Like, does he just, like, fly in when he's free? Why is he in the Berg? Like, he was in Tampa. He's in the Berg. He's like, what are we doing? What's up with Aaron Dessner? Are you trying to make scandalous implications.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no way, shape, or form. I just mean, like, it seems to be so random. Like, she's had a bunch of special guests, which are cool. I think it was for Father's Day. But for Father's Day, wouldn't he want to be with his kids? Why would he want to fly to Pittsburgh and play seven? Oh, Pittsburgh's not that hard to get to. And also, because I don't know, actually, I don't know how old Aaron Dessner's kids are,

and I don't know what their relationship is with, is to take. Taylor Swift. But like, I don't know. If my dad went and played seven with Taylor Swift, I would probably think it was pretty cool. Well, yeah, okay, that's sort of a given. I just was curious, like, what the calculation is. You know what? You know what really serious actors, you know when really serious actors, like, all of a sudden take a sharp left and do a weird superhero movie? And you're like, what's going on? And then you realize it's just because their kids think it's cool. Like, maybe it's that. I don't think there's a lot of people saying no to Taylor Swift right now.

Like, I don't think there's a lot of situations in which she's going to be like, Hey, Aaron, can you, can you, you know, I'll send the plane. Can you get here and we'll do seven and it'll be sort of a Father's Day thing? And I'm going to give this little speech about it and different relationships with parents and whatever. And he's like, no, sorry, don't got the time. Hard agree. And the national not playing at the moment. they were on tour for a while,

came through here in L.A. It just was interesting. I think what it is at the end of the day is that some of those folklore songs are really hard to play and they're his parts. And the rhythmic part of it, I'm glad he's there.

Let me be clear because I think it brings to life those songs. That's exactly how they were made. He sent her his hard drive. She wrote back very quickly with melodies and lyrics. that's the song. And so it probably doesn't feel natural to her to actually be, you know, playing the piano parts or the guitar parts, especially because rhythmically, they're actually difficult

to sort of play and sing at the same time. So I'm glad he's there. I just, you know, do you think that she went through and sort of said, okay, I need you here and here and here and here and here? Or to your point, does she just call her up and say, hey, Air Taylor's landing in upstate New York in two hours, hop on, I need you in the burg tonight. Probably the latter. All right. Well, we'll see. I think a lot of...

I mean, one thing that I think is pretty cool about the tour is you do sort of realize that they do a fair bit of this on the fly. Like, of course, the majority of the videos and all of the bells and whistles and everything that makes it just such a massive spectacle. Of course, that's incredibly rehearsed and took an unbelievable amount of time to plan and execute. But the surprise songs, like one of the things that's most sort of joyful and fun to realize about it to me has been that it's kind of nice when she messes up. Yeah. Like, it's kind of fun that she will go, oh, God, I practice this today, but I'm forgetting

this part. Like, I'm going to go back and do it again. One, it gives you a little bit of a window into what a project this is. And right, like, she's not doing that song all the time. She has to just get up in the morning and be like, okay, let me, let me, let me rehearse the story of us for a little bit before I go do it tonight. But I think there's a fair bit of, you know, problem solving on the fly. They're introducing new outfits every once in a while beyond the changes that happen on a night to night basis. And the question I think would be, you know, what happens if, if Aaron's not able to do that? Well, they just figure it out, I assume.

She's got plenty of songs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's got plenty of songs. It's great. I like the mess-ups, too, because there is a, I don't know, that entire moment of the show is the most intimate part of the tour. Yeah. It's kind of cool to have her at least, you know, be a human being. Is there anything else that's happened in this last week during the summer of Taylor? I mean, the New York paparazzi photographs have subsided a little bit. They have subsided. They have very much subsided.

It is noticeable. It is noticeable. There was also, I, I, and we did not, we were not necessarily going to, you're going off the cuff here. I love it. But you'll, everyone will have to forgive me for not having this note in front of me. I think it was page six. There was an item about her maybe like canceling her membership at, um,

I think Costa Chibriani, but maybe it was Zero Bond. One of the, like, members-only clubs, it was then, like, the place was like, no, she has not changed her membership status. But the driver behind it was like, she was mad about getting photographed in a place where you're not supposed to be able to do that. Right.

So it's really slowed. Yeah. It is really slowed. It seems like she sort of got that out of the system. and heard the noise and now we're back to some quiet and some privacy. I do think, like, it's,

this does not, this is, I always try to be careful about how I say this because this could not possibly bother me less. But it is just further evidence that there are no accidents. And when someone is seen that much, if they're not actively trying to, they certainly don't care that they're going to be.

And when they're not seen, it's because they don't want to be. that's all. She thinks these things... Go stream cruel summer. Go stream cruel summer. Nothing else really happened this week other than the very mysterious blinking Jay that lit up in a portion of the crowd on the wristbands at one of the Pittsburgh shows,

both of the Pittsburgh shows, I think just one of them. It was purplish. A lot of Js in the past. I don't know. I don't know what to make. of that, but I found it very curious. Certainly didn't happen at the show that I went to. Did that feel like conspiracy crowd, or does that feel like something that's real?

I mean, let's be clear, your conspiracy theory that she's adding five vowels on all these letters in service of 1989, which is the fifth album, Taylor's version. All right. Well, five O's in the Pittsburgh tweet. Five O's in a so... That feels like... Just saying. Yes.

When she... Again, when people tell you who they are... believe them. This is the kind of thing that she does. It is, it is, you are right. Are you talking about me? Are you talking about Taylor? Both. Both. Both. But you are right. That's what she's doing. So, fine. Are we looking at videos and breaking it down like it's the fucking Zepruder film of the Kennedy assassination to find like the shooter on the hill blinking a J? Or is there actually a blinking J? There's definitely a blinking J. the way that those wristbands work, I believe, is that, like, it's not that they know that you in, you know, Section 122 row 14 seat J are wearing wristband number 6,492.

It's that there are signals being sent in certain ways to certain areas of the crowd and the wristbands receive them and whatever. in theory that makes it possible to program so that something would do something like that. I don't know what it means. This one I have no read on. I just, that's what it was. It was a big blinking J in the back of the stands. We can't sit here and be like, it didn't happen. Is it a J for Jake?

Is it a J for Joe? Is it a J for John Jacob Jingle Heiber Schmidt? I don't know, but it was there. When I heard... The thing that's funny about the five-Os and all of the night, the 1989 Taylor's version conspiracy theories is that we already believe that 1989 is imminent is coming. Like, you and I both are so on board with this already prior to the tweet hints. So it's not as though the tweet hints are indicating anything that we don't already believe

to be true. But I guess I'm just down the rabbit hole anyway. Yeah, she's warming up the gong for 1989, as it were. Yeah, it's an absolute wink. Can I just tell you that, When everybody said there was a flashing J or a blinking J, I kept looking at the screen behind her because there were little red things on the side. And I thought people meant there was like a joint on screen. And I thought it was like really going to reinforce my she smokes now take. You're smoking.

And so I spent a lot of time studying that film until I realized, Oh, no, no, no, no, it's the letter J. Okay. The J is for Ganja. Married Jane. There you go. I was like, yeah, see?

Nora, she smokes now. Anyway, that's the most exciting thing of the week. Again, I would say, it's been somewhat quiet. This is very exciting that she's taking cruel summer to radio. And it may be like the last dying gasp of a format, We're just going to see. There are all sorts of interesting business implications.

Do they roll over and just play it because they want to bring people back to radio? Do they do music industry weirdness and fight it because they don't want to be told what to do? What does it actually mean? What does success look like? Let's have a little bit more from Taylor about what it is. She wants a fan base to do on Friday in Minneapolis. Yeah, well, I think we're going to get something. I think they're going to play it.

I think they're going to do what she says. That's what I would do. We're going to find out. Are you saying she's warming up the gong for the ultimate death of radio as a format? That's what she's doing. She's warming down the radio gong. All right. Well, on that note, this has been every single album, Summer of Taylor, volume.

It's in the books now. I'm Nora Preciati. As always, he is Nathan Hubbard. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you to Kaia McMullen for her excellent. production on this episode as always.